News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...  (Read 39368 times)

SargeSmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3399
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2014, 05:33:59 pm »
Quite a few, actually.  Probably the best is Sin and Punishment: Star Successor.  But there were some Dead Space and Resident Evil spinoffs that were supposed to be pretty good, and I also think House of the Dead showed up there.  Those probably don't count as "PD-style", though.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?  -- Mark 8:36

Lilinda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4539
  • Ten years, still no avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2014, 10:15:05 pm »
House of the Dead: Overkill is great cheesy as fuck fun.

Sarge: I was more saying when the game's design does not suit motion controls. Epic Mickey was used as an example because it reallllllllly didn't suit them, the game being slammed in the press due to its camera controls being utter shite.

If it's a case where the game actually works with motion controls optimally, such as a light gun game, or a drawing game, or some other thing that is escaping me right now(And surely some are), then yeah motion controls only, but otherwise you just fuck over people who prefer standard controllers or those who can barely use motion controls, like myself. I'm a goddamned cripple, and a lot of games that do not need motion controls used them.

Optimal solution for Nintendo would have been to require both types of controls unless you apply and get an exception, but that's Nintendo for you. Lack of foresight(To be fair MS and Sony have lack of foresight as well, just not as bad).
Retired moderator/staff member as of July 14th 2016

Celice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 11:19:26 pm »
Wii forced-motion controls have also fucked over my brother, who is also a disable gamer (Duchenne's muscular dystrophy).

Luckily we can at least get emulators to allow him to play Nintendo's two of Nintendo's last fucking consoles. Can't wait for 3DS and WiiU emulation to break through so my brother can enjoy some new Nintendo games.

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2014, 10:59:09 am »
I'm still stuck on pencil-and-paper

I hear you. I'm basically all about pen and paper.


Quote
If I may play devil's advocate here, though...  traditional gaming controllers are a huge barrier to non-gamers.  I've come across lots of people that wouldn't dare pick up a controller because it looks insanely complicated to them.  And ironically, they're kinda right.  We gamers that have grown up in the hobby have had time (at least from my personal experience) to move from the two-primary-button NES controller to the 6-button SNES to the Dual Shock, and all the spinoffs in between.  We've had more time to adjust.  They haven't.  To us, a traditional controller may be empowering, because we can look at a game, and see where things would work just fine with a traditional controller.  Non-gamers, likely, will not see that, and the motion controls might seem more intuitive.

Just a thought.  I'm certainly not a fan of shoehorning in motion or touch or whatever "just because", but there are cases where I think it's central to the vision of the software.  When that's the case, I'm totally okay with forcing motion controls.

Well, I totally understand what you mean. The day that my brother and sister played Metroid for the first time demonstrated the expectations of someone who's never gamed before. First my brother played, and once he reached the first tall vertical shaft that Samus has to ascend, he did something interesting. He would jump for a platform, and in mid-air while pressing the d-pad in the direction of the jump, he would also move the controller in an arc that would have led Samus to the platform. He did this over and over with each jump.

Once my sister's turn came, she did the exact same thing! I explained to them that the game didn't work that way, but clearly they were expecting a much more natural experience from the controller.

I don't see anything wrong with devising new schemes of control, but the traditional controller works quite well. The controller has evolved to make room for better and more fluid means of control, too. For example, imagine playing Katamari without analog sticks. It can be done but not as smoothly.


Quote
Didn't Crimson Dragon turn out kinda iffy, anyway?

I wouldn't know, I only have a second hand PlayStation 2 that someone gave me ten years ago!

SargeSmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3399
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2014, 12:20:18 pm »
Sarge: I was more saying when the game's design does not suit motion controls. Epic Mickey was used as an example because it reallllllllly didn't suit them, the game being slammed in the press due to its camera controls being utter shite.

If it's a case where the game actually works with motion controls optimally, such as a light gun game, or a drawing game, or some other thing that is escaping me right now(And surely some are), then yeah motion controls only, but otherwise you just fuck over people who prefer standard controllers or those who can barely use motion controls, like myself. I'm a goddamned cripple, and a lot of games that do not need motion controls used them.

Optimal solution for Nintendo would have been to require both types of controls unless you apply and get an exception, but that's Nintendo for you. Lack of foresight(To be fair MS and Sony have lack of foresight as well, just not as bad).
I think we're mostly in agreement.  Didn't know you had some physical issues, I can see where that would change your perspective on these things significantly.  I completely agree, shoehorning it in is just stupid.  Multiple options are certainly good as well.  As much as I enjoyed it, I would have paid good money to be able to use the d-pad in the DS Zelda games.  (By the way, A Link Between Worlds is phenomenal.)

I hear you. I'm basically all about pen and paper.
Fun stuff!  The permanence of pen always gives me the willies, though, I guess I'm not good enough at planning ahead.  :P

Quote
Well, I totally understand what you mean. The day that my brother and sister played Metroid for the first time demonstrated the expectations of someone who's never gamed before. First my brother played, and once he reached the first tall vertical shaft that Samus has to ascend, he did something interesting. He would jump for a platform, and in mid-air while pressing the d-pad in the direction of the jump, he would also move the controller in an arc that would have led Samus to the platform. He did this over and over with each jump.

Once my sister's turn came, she did the exact same thing! I explained to them that the game didn't work that way, but clearly they were expecting a much more natural experience from the controller.
Yep, I remember even doing as much myself.  It's just getting into it, and it just took time to condition myself to not lean or whatever.  The irony, of course, is that it still kicks in from time to time.  I think the one that hits me the most is if I'm playing a 3D game, and I'm trying to look around a corner, and the camera won't let me do it, I'll literally start trying to lean the proper direction to look out further.  There's got to me some interesting stuff they could do with that.  :)

Quote
I don't see anything wrong with devising new schemes of control, but the traditional controller works quite well. The controller has evolved to make room for better and more fluid means of control, too. For example, imagine playing Katamari without analog sticks. It can be done but not as smoothly.
Oh, I definitely agree.  I'm still very much an old-school gamer, so I still mostly pine for traditional controls.  I also recognize that I've had 25+ years of that ingrained in my head, so I'm a little biased in that way.  (Analog sticks are good for lots of things, to be sure.  It benefited racing games quite well, too, although die-hards would tell you to use a racing wheel!)

Quote
I wouldn't know, I only have a second hand PlayStation 2 that someone gave me ten years ago!
Nothing wrong with that!  I used to be well behind the curve.  I'm still behind it, just not quite as far anymore.  I usually give in on a new system in about year two or three, now that I have income.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?  -- Mark 8:36

KaioShin

  • RHDN Patreon Supporter!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
    • View Profile
    • The Romhacking Aerie
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 01:07:37 pm »
Even the biggest Nintendo fanboy in the gaming sphere is saying Nintendo is doomed now: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-special-fate-nintendo
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 02:11:01 pm »
Even the biggest Nintendo fanboy in the gaming sphere is saying Nintendo is doomed now: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-special-fate-nintendo

Access denied.

KaioShin

  • RHDN Patreon Supporter!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
    • View Profile
    • The Romhacking Aerie
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 02:22:20 pm »
Ok try this: http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.de/2014/01/new-year-special-fate-of-nintendo.html

I watched it earlier on SA, dunno what happened there. Things got messy when he moved to blip, I get his new videos 3 times in my rss feeds now.
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

SargeSmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3399
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 03:29:21 pm »
I think he's being a touch too dire here.  Especially his statement that everyone that is going to buy one has already.  If I had a quarter for everyone that I've heard on the Internet that said they'd buy one when the next price drop or Smash hits, I'd be a rich man.  I really do think folks are holding off until they view it as being its proper value.  Heck, I probably wouldn't own one now if GameStop hadn't had a special on the Deluxe Set at $250.  That was the magic point for me, and I think it is for a lot of others, too.  Plus, I don't think Mario alone is enough to move units.  There's significant diversity even amongst the Nintendo faithful, and they're all waiting for different things.

I know it was probably a throwaway line, but I think Steam Machines are going to flop hard.  I do see the PC-console convergence, though.

They may still end up with a Gamecube in the end, but Nintendo is most assuredly not "doomed".  (Good grief, I'm a Ninty fan, though, that last rant at the end nearly had me cheering.)
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?  -- Mark 8:36

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 04:07:53 pm »
Fun stuff!  The permanence of pen always gives me the willies, though, I guess I'm not good enough at planning ahead.  :P

I used to feel the same way and only used pencil. But a large part of ink is the discovery of improvisation. 'What will come out of this?' In one go, you lay it down and it's pretty much a journey every time. Sometimes the result bears resemblance to the initial concept that formed in the mind, while other times there was no plan at all, and the entire process was something like an exploration that ended at an unknown destination.

Not to mention the payoff: Finishing a detailed ink drawing in one take sure does feel good. Little mistakes are normal and I don't trip on them.

Quote
Yep, I remember even doing as much myself.  It's just getting into it, and it just took time to condition myself to not lean or whatever.  The irony, of course, is that it still kicks in from time to time.  I think the one that hits me the most is if I'm playing a 3D game, and I'm trying to look around a corner, and the camera won't let me do it, I'll literally start trying to lean the proper direction to look out further.  There's got to me some interesting stuff they could do with that.  :)

I've been doing that lately as I play through Tourist Trophy! I'll lean into some of the more difficult turns...

Quote
Nothing wrong with that!  I used to be well behind the curve.  I'm still behind it, just not quite as far anymore.  I usually give in on a new system in about year two or three, now that I have income.

A few years ago I bought Resident Evil 4 for eight bucks and proceeded to have one hell of an awesome and intense gaming experience. It doesn't matter if a game is "old" or several generations behind or whatever. Around this same time I picked up DQVIII and Shadow of the Colossus. So much fun and so little cash dropped.

Jorpho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4017
  • The cat screams with the voice of a man.
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2014, 11:28:56 pm »
Man, reading news about the demise of Nintendo makes me sad.

I miss the days when I, you know, played games.  Instead of reading about them and accumulating them.

House of the Dead: Overkill is great cheesy as fuck fun.
Except now that it's on the PC (complete with Ingenious Typing Controls), I might as well sell my Wii copy.
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

Lilinda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4539
  • Ten years, still no avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2014, 11:32:49 pm »
That kind of game ain't as fun with mouse controls IMO.

That said, it includes levels from the PS3 version that the Wii version didn't have, so...
Retired moderator/staff member as of July 14th 2016

FAST6191

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2427
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2014, 07:04:29 am »
[game overthinker] that last rant at the end nearly had me cheering.

Personally I was giggling in the "oh dear" manner.

That said I do consistently underestimate the position Nintendo has for quite a few people.

Bregalad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2584
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2014, 07:39:56 am »
There is nothing new, since the N64 Nintendo has only released terrible home consoles, almost only 1st party games and very childish overall, while technically inferior to their concurrents and having horrible controllers. They have always and still does have a nice position in the handled market, though it has moved from actual gaming to sholveware in the DS timeline, and I haven't followed enough gaming more recently to know anything about the 3DS (I didn't even knew the WiiU existed at all before this thread).

The "computers and console as 2-in-1" thing is nothing new. Just think about the C64, MSX or Amstrad.

In any case I have so many games I won't ever buy anything new, no matter how awesome or amazing it is. Sorry Nintendo/Sony/whathever company, I won't ever invest in video games any more in my life. Unless I manage to finish all those I own right now, which is extremely, extremely unlikely. If this ever happens it would mean I have wasted my life playing games and doing nothing more interesting, so I sure don't wish this to happen.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 04:44:00 pm by Bregalad »

tryphon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2014, 10:01:57 am »
almost only 1st party games and very childish overall

For me, this is actually a pro. I'm fed up with FPS, hyper-violent and "realistic" games on PS3 (I don't have and don't want a Xbox). I'm watching regularly TV channels about games, and nothing seems really enjoyable to me but Nintendo games.

I bought my PS3 mainly to have a Blu-Ray media player with network abilities, I bought 2 games (SF4 and FF13) and I don't want any other (maybe Ni no Kuni is an exception, and yet, the game doesn't attract me but I love Ghibli). If I had to buy a console to play, it'd be a Nintendo one.

I miss Sega.

Bregalad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2584
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2014, 10:18:53 am »
I'm not into those hyper-violent dark serious games either. I just don't like them.
I like game with cute anime/manga graphics, but without being excessively childish either. Something like the Atelier Iris series : They are the most recent games I played and REALLY enjoyed.

MisterJones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1572
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2014, 10:52:44 am »
while technically inferior to their concurrents

The Gamecube was technically superior to the playstation 2 (which is why shinji mikami wasnt too please when his team was forced to do a ps2 port and no other console had a re1 remake release).

Look how much that helped them.

And frankly the ds is so close of having a library as great as that of the gba. there is dirt yes, but so every other gaming console/handheld has had.
_-|-_

FAST6191

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2427
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2014, 12:08:58 pm »
[N64 and after] having horrible controllers.

Fighting words there if that is to include the gamecube controller.

Bregalad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2584
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2014, 01:40:16 pm »

Quote
The Gamecube was technically superior to the playstation 2
Oh sorry I wasn't aware of that, but I'll believe it. I had the N64 and Wii in mind when I wrote this. Of course the concept of "technically inferior" and "technically supperior" doesn't always says much.

Quote
Fighting words there if that is to include the gamecube controller.
Yes it does. Unlike the N64 and Wii controllers which are simply unmanagable, the GC one is decent, but still bad. At least you can hold it in your hands without hurting yourself, but why are the buttons all over the place and why are them so huge ? The joystick and D-Pad sucks as well. This is far of the greatness of the SNES or PS1 controller for example.

KingMike

  • Forum Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6714
  • *sigh* A changed avatar. Big deal.
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Admits Wii U Is A Flop? Interesting...
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 02:43:44 pm »
I agree that the tiny + can barely even be counted as a D-Pad.
I just finished a playthrough of Final Fantasy Mystic Quest for the Virtual Console, and when I can't even play something like THAT without the D-Pad being mildly annoying to operate correctly, that's bad. :P
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018