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Author Topic: Shining Force 2 sound test  (Read 4940 times)

EarlJ

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Shining Force 2 sound test
« on: June 21, 2013, 01:04:35 am »
The sound test from the Japanese version was removed from the US release. Finding it and restoring it was a pretty easy job, but the game also displays the song titles when you're deciding which to play.

The sound test was also present in a US beta from April '94, so we've got some early Engrishy translation of the titles... but some of those are truly terrible.

http://pastebin.com/iEwru0UU

The English text are those translations from the beta, and the numbers are just there to make individual tracks easier to refer to, they're not actually in the game. There are 36 tracks, and there's only a smattering of kanji.

Although for what it's worth, I may have gotten the kanji 說 in 04 wrong.
The strokes above the righthand character are supposed to have a "v" type alignment.
I left it in there because it was the closest I could find, and I've known Chinese-style characters to distort in strange ways depending on the font size so it may very well be the right character.

I'm not sure if this is a large amount of text or not... so if I'm coming off that way, well, I wasn't /intending/ to be obnoxious.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:11:47 am by EarlJ »

BRPXQZME

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 04:03:40 am »
No, it’s not really a large amount of text. There are issues in translating song titles, but the length issue is more that they’re short. Like, so short you often lose something in translation because you end up making it longer, or so short that they’re devoid of context that would usually tell you which of a number of possibilities is (or are) correct. That said, these should be 90% of the way there (adjust as necessary; these are fairly literal where possible and besides, I would not know what any of these are talking about, having barely touched this game). I also corrected a few things that are obviously wrong, and linked to the tracks that I think are the ones they refer to for cross-checking purposes.

01 やみに うごめくもの (Writhers in the Darkness)
02 まよいのもりの まじょ (Witch in the Forest of Illusion)
03 まよいのもりの よは ふけて (Late Night in the Forest of Illusion)
04 光の伝 (Legend of Light)
05 はるかなる たびのよびごえ (The Call of a Long Journey)
06 まかいのいりぐち (Entrance to The Demon World)
07 古代からのメッセージ (A Message from Ancient Times)
08 あらわれた悪魔王 (The King of Devils Has Appeared)
09 グランシールのわかものたち (The Young Men of Granseal)
10 戦え 古えの光とともに (Fight, with the Ancient Light)
11 ダーク フォース (Dark Force)
12 はめつのあしおと (Footsteps of Ruin)
13 悪魔王のほうこう (Roar of the King of Devils)
14 へいわな ひととき (A Peaceful Moment)
15 ドワーフ ドワーフ ドワーフ (Dwarf Dwarf Dwarf)
16 グラウンドシールのちすじ (The Bloodline of Ground Seal)
17 キャラバンが行く (The Caravan Proceeds)
18 古代のつばさ (Ancient Wings)
19 しれんのとき (Time of Trials)
20 えらばれしゆうしゃ (Chosen Heroes)
21 ゆめ見るエリス (Dreaming Ellis)
22 ようせいのもり (Elf Forest)
23 ついおく (Reminiscence)
24 心にあいたあな (Hole in the Heart)
25 戦士たちのたそがれ (Twilight of the Warriors)
26 うおっ しまったー (Oh, Dammit) [it’s stylized as lyrics to the song :D]
27 なーかーまにー なったー ナッター (Joined the Party) [lyrics]
28 かなしく なーかーまにー なったー (Sadly Joined the Party) [not lyrics, just matching the above]
29 セーブ (Save)
30 どーくーけーしー (Antidote) [lyrics]
31 生き返し (Revival)
32 生き返し ロングバージョン (Revival – Long Version)
33 クラースチェンジ (Class Change)
34 呪われてしまったっ (You’ve Been Cursed!) [lyrics]
35 たからばっこだー (It’s a Treasure Chest!) [lyrics]
36 シャイニングフォース2 (Shining Force II)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 04:28:52 am by BRPXQZME »
we are in a horrible and deadly danger

EarlJ

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 11:48:49 pm »
Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

"Writhers in the Darkness" sounds kind of strange, and "Hole in the Heart" may be a bit too literal (although it has a kind of charm as a song name)... but I can recall the context for most of these and there's nothing out of place in those translations.

The machine I'm using now can't run a browser modern enough to satisfy youtube, but thanks for adding those links. I'll definitely have someone check them out.

One thing though...
I double checked the screenshots I've got and
16 グランドシールのちすじ
definitely doesn't have the ウ character in it.
Is that some weird typo? Would that exclusion make it read 'Grand' Seal? That would be obviously wrong, and also a good catch for having barely touched the game.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 12:12:41 am by EarlJ »

BRPXQZME

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 01:57:03 am »
I know some of these sound pretty weird, and that is because they are pretty literal. I’ll break it down:
やみに うごめくもの
yami ni ugomeku mono
yami - darkness (sometimes you can translate this as “night”, because of how we use it figuratively in English)
ni - in / at / on / to (in this case, in, because none of the others really makes much sense; this is a “postposition” much like we have “prepositions” in English)
ugomeku - wriggle (refers to bugs or a buglike wriggling motion; it can thus be extended metaphorically to putting on airs when applied to the nose [a meaning wholly irrelevant here] and to the skulking or loitering of no-goodniks [the meaning I suspect is really implied here])
mono - two common readings here: can refer to a “thing” (strictly physical things) or to “a person” (the usage is a bit like we use the “one” in “one should”). Additionally, since nouns in Japanese don’t have grammatical number, they might be plural, so “things” or “those” are very common translation.

Thus an extremely literal translation could be “those who/that wriggle in the darkness”. But this is an awkwardly verbose phrase when you can use the -er instead of “those who”, and typical Japanese usage does not allow their equivalent of “-er” to be applied to this kind of verb anyway.

This is the sort of thing that gets lost in translation pretty often, because as Shakespeare wrote (in the mouth of an ironically garrulous character), brevity is [...] wit.

Given license to translate more figuratively, I would have definitely gone for something else, like “lurking in the darkness”, or “bump in the night”, or even “nightcrawlers”

For what I have translated Hole in the Heart, it is more literally “[a] hole opened in [the] heart/spirit”. Maybe having the verb in there does not sound redundant in Japanese, but in English it really does. This use of “hole” is a figurative sense, of course, but given that this usage and meaning is basically the same as in English, there isn’t a lot of point translating it some other way. Given a less conservative approach (or a character limit as is often the case in games), “heartbreak” is the obvious idea here.

As for グランドシール, I got it wrong and I blame that on being a drunkpost and getting my info from Internet synopses instead of doing my research the fun-but-takes-hours way (i.e. playing the game) :beer:

For some reason, a lot of Japanese usage of the English word “ground” is spelled as if it should be pronounced “grand”. This is largely recognized as incorrect by lexicographers (both my Japanese dictionaries have two definitions for グランド, and the “ground” definition redirects the reader to グラウンド; unlike most incorrect or colloquial pronunciations, great care has been taken in both to make グラウンド the canonical reading with グランド permitted). However, terms that are in common use are hard to fight like that. If you see the word グランド in a video game, you have to try and figure out whether they meant “grand” or “ground”, which isn’t usually hard, just a little frustrating as a speaker of English.

Perhaps I am writing a whole lot about nothing here, but these are the kinds of issues we worry about in translation, so I hope it has made interesting reading for someone out there, at least. :laugh:
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 02:05:54 am by BRPXQZME »
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EarlJ

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 03:39:45 am »
That kind of insight is always interesting.

I remember back when Bahamut Lagoon was translated, the readme was just awesome. And the game wasn't bad either.

Special T

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 07:34:58 am »
Perhaps I am writing a whole lot about nothing here, but these are the kinds of issues we worry about in translation, so I hope it has made interesting reading for someone out there, at least. :laugh:

I thought it was very interesting, thank you for taking the time to explain.

Also, here is a Youtube Video that shows the sound test from the prototype rom, in case anyone want to hear the sounds / songs.

EarlJ

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 12:11:00 am »
Some context, if it makes a difference...

01 - used during the intro (when you wait at the title screen)
02 - standard theme in the witch screens
03 - witch screen, after you save and quit

04-06 are themes that play on battlefields
I think 04 is also used on the overworld maps

08 & 21 - used at some point in the scenes after the final battle

09-13 are all used in combat
09 ally vs. enemy
10 promoted ally vs. enemy
11 enemy vs. ally
12 boss vs. ally
13 Zeon (the final boss) vs. ally

14 - standard town theme
15 - dwarven mine (although just being "Dwarf Dwarf Dwarf", there's not much room for interpretation)
16 - standard castle music
19 - a character joins while Granseal is under attack
20 - I think this is used in the credits or ending
22 - theme for the elven village (which players sometimes call the Fairy Woods)
23 - an archaeologist dies in Roft
24 - Hawel (Kazin's father figure) is killed
25 - when you play a piano in Yeel; doing this unblocks a chest elsewhere

EarlJ

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Re: Shining Force 2 sound test
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 12:51:55 am »
I was finally able to get a patch made.

It took longer than I thought because the Huffman compression was not kind to the translations, so I had work out an alternative way to get the text in there. But the test now includes SFX too, and I got to practice using 68k assembly, so that's cool.

Thanks again, BRPXQZME!