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Author Topic: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project  (Read 26569 times)

Drakon

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2013, 08:38:13 am »
the music is painstakingly taken from other classic games and uses the MMC5 additional sound channel. Your comment about the music is like someone complaining about the music in Rockman no Constancy!

It's fine if you don't like it personally, but a lot of effort was put into this and I appreciate the effort. I love all the songs from the original Rockman series, but I'm glad that this is hack doesn't just reuse the same songs we always hear in rockman hacks.

Honestly I'd be happier listening to classic rockman songs with no extra sound channel.  Maybe when I get the time I'll look into how difficult it is to swap the music.

NES Boy

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 01:15:05 pm »
While we're on the subject of music, I hope Dr. Cossack gets his own battle music in the next version, since he's an important boss.

And since the opening text was unchanged from its original Japanese script (original as in unmodified Rockman 4), maybe when we set the game to English we get the English opening script?

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 02:48:49 pm »
The music has all been completely done and that's 100% finished. There'll be no changing it at this point. If you guys want to hear normal Rockman music there are...at least a hundred other hacks out there. Don't get me wrong you won't find a bigger fan of the rockman soundtracks anywhere, but what's here isn't bad and to replace such unique tracks with stuff you can hear anywhere would be a shame.

As I said, the tracks are 100% finished. There's a a complete database of all the tracks here:

https://sites.google.com/site/rockman4mi/music


The original Rock4 intro is unaltered because its a low priority. The original creator has told me that he plans to get to this eventually, as well as change the titlescreen to something with multiple frames of animation (possibly similar to the unfinished Megaman Ultra 2 beta which was also based on Rockman 4 amusingly)


So alrighty ~ moving along, I've fixed all the Engrish in the Dr. Cossack defeat cutscene:

Went from:



to this:



Let me know any suggestions or can point out any simple typos. Haven't had a chance to really go over the script - my goal here was just to create something that makes far more sense while staying within the general plot of Rock4 and staying within the character limits of what the Famicom can actually do.

Any edits keep in mind there's a 24 character per line, two lines per screen limit.

Zynk

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2013, 09:19:16 am »
"COME ON MY FORTRESS" to "COME TO MY FORTRESS"

But you did wrote the latter a few posts ago.  :(

Drakon

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:37 pm »
Myself + spikeman (mostly spikeman) converted the parts of this romhack that use color emphasis bits into grayscale so this amazing hack runs on a nes compatible rgb ppu chip:





When I pause the game and hit "b" to read about weapons tiles get messed up with this build that satoshimatrix sent me.  Other than the "help screen" being messed up this game runs 100% find on my rgb system.  I'm running this on a converted mmc5 famicom cartridge.



The maskrom socket has been wired so I can just burn and drop in a regular 8mbit eprom chip for future updates.  No rewiring is required for the eprom you can just straight drop in an eprom and play.  I didn't cut a single trace on the pcb.  I "borrowed" the ram chip from my mario 2 nes cart, I have multiple copies of mario usa for the famicom plus my everdrive n8 so all is good.

Of course I got satoshimatrix to contact the author of this hack asking for him to make a version with no color emphasis bits.  For some reason the author said he didn't want to do it...  That's why myself + spikeman had to do this, otherwise on a rgb system certain stages parts  of the screen are solid white.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:43:38 pm by Drakon »

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2013, 03:07:06 am »
lower case characters have been implemented, so here's a preliminary look at a cutscene with the newfangled standard font.

ignore random Kalinka in tile data. that'll be removed of course.



I'm mostly guessing at the exact character spacing based on the spacing I've seen in other games with this exact font. I'm pretty satisfied with it, with the exception of the p's and q's. The characters look out of place, and it almost makes me want to try to rewrite the dialogue again to avoid the use of either character. Maybe that's just because I've been staring at this font for the past few hours.

Midna

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2013, 12:40:19 pm »
Looks good enough, but spaces between the comma and the rest of the text (e.g. "Rockman: Blah blah blah" instead of "Rockman:Blah blah blah") would look a lot nicer.

Also:

*My daughter Kalinka
*Dr. Wily, and I
*But I'm just...
*How long are you
*blackmailed, what you
*wrong. But you can still make amends!

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2013, 02:57:33 pm »
The spacing is constricted by what the Famicom can do. Only 24 8x8 characters per line, and two lines per screen. I'm not 100% sure on the exact spacing, but even a simple comma is considered an 8x8 character so there's always gonna be a weird gap in such characters. Even so, I'm working on revising the font to be as good as possible. This is just a preliminary change.

Zynk

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2013, 09:06:14 pm »
You could draw the periods, commas & colons at the edge of the 8x8 tile so it would look like it has space. Also try ellipses with 2 or 3 dots on one tile.

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2013, 05:38:31 am »
I'm working on improving a few of the sprites in the game, starting with some of the main characters since their original sprites......well they suck.

First up is Roll.

Roll doesn't actually appear in the game until the epilogue, but the Copy-Roll does, which uses a weird pallet. Gotta contact the hacker about that one, but for now I'll leave it be.

Here's the sprites I've made for the game:



The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

I'd appreciate it if NES graphics hackers could take a look at this and tell me if I'm doing something wrong here or not. Next will be Dr. Light. I'd like to change Cossacks' pallet too, but it might conflict with Roll and Kalinka who share the same pallet when on-screen together.

Drakon

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2013, 08:08:58 am »
I'm working on improving a few of the sprites in the game, starting with some of the main characters since their original sprites......well they suck.

First up is Roll.

Roll doesn't actually appear in the game until the epilogue, but the Copy-Roll does, which uses a weird pallet. Gotta contact the hacker about that one, but for now I'll leave it be.

Here's the sprites I've made for the game:



The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

I'd appreciate it if NES graphics hackers could take a look at this and tell me if I'm doing something wrong here or not. Next will be Dr. Light. I'd like to change Cossacks' pallet too, but it might conflict with Roll and Kalinka who share the same pallet when on-screen together.

Why don't you learn a little about nes graphics hacking yourself?

Zynk

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2013, 09:47:47 am »
Here's the sprites I've made for the game:



The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

Heys, Satoshi_Matrix, what Roll sprites do you actually need? If its walking sprites, here's a sprite sheet from Rockman 4 brought by Spriters Inc.



Also, here is from Roll from the mobile, though she's running & I don't think you need those:

Mobile Roll


Plus, I think you could color Roll's ribbon to red so you wouldn't need that green. Anyways, how do you assign "layers" to sprites?
I asked this b/c I wanted to place white on Roll's RM8 garb collar & cuff clothing. And her face tile doesn't reach her ears so I compensated it with her sideburns. And I compensated the lack of white with yellow.



As shown in the pic, the above sprites are the ideal colors for Roll, while below has the colors that I have assigned without any asm hacking, I use YY-CHR for sprites.

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2013, 02:27:10 pm »
I don't want to use the original Rockman 4 Roll (even with Rush removed) because that sprite is so boring. Roll didn't have any decent 8-bit sprites until the later games, and I don't want to use the official ones if it can be helped.

The Mobile Roll is awesome, but Copy-Roll has a dialogue cutscene next to Megaman. Do a comparison - that Roll sprite towers over the Megaman sprite! There's no reason Roll should be that tall. For all their effort, Capcom made the cell phone Roll sprite too large. 

Therefore, I wanna do something custom. I know I could do Roll's hairband as red and therefore not need a third layer, but it's within the limitations and should be possible. btw, check you pms. I sent you a message about your Roll sprites.

Not sure if you know about the NES sprite limitations, so sorry if this is elementary to you.

The NES displays graphics in two categories: backgrounds and sprites. On a basic level, backgrounds are environments and sprites are characters, enemies, objects, etc. However in later NES games as complicated as Megaman titles, the line between the two is blurred, as in many cases both are animated and the later NES Megaman games are famous for dimming the background to pitch black and having Megaman face off against large enemies that are actually mostly background titles to limit the number of sprites needed, which avoids flickering, slowdown, lack of detail and a host of other benefits.

But let's ignore backgrounds for now and talk strictly about sprites. Each sprite consists of one pallet. One pallet has 4 colors. Background pallets use all 4 colors at all times, but sprites can only use 3 colors with the first "color" always being reversed for transparency. There is no avoiding this; it's how the NES was designed.

With just a single layer, most NES sprites (early games especially) look rather basic, since unless your sprite is the same color as the background, (.ie black, dark blue, etc) one of the three colors for your sprite will have to be black or other dark color, and one will have to be a bright, contrasting color to make it easily visible. That leaves you with just a single color to work with.

In 1987 with the release of Megaman 1, Capcom adopted a novel workaround for this limitation - just make your characters out of two sprite layers, effectively making them two sprites acting as one. Megaman himself and many other characters are two sprites - one is Megaman's black/blue/cyan outfit and the other is his black/white/flesh face. Since the fourth color in both pallets is transparent, this effectively creates the illusion that Megaman isn't two sprites, but one.

If you look at my Roll sprites above, mine follows this same principle - the regular Roll sprite consisting of her body shape dress and hair, a second for her skintone and face, and then an additional third layer for her hair bow. Since this pallet only consists of two colors, a third "dummy" color is used, in this case white.

Assembled, Roll consists of six colors across three sprite layers. There are NES sprites that do this already present in Rockman 4 MI, so I know it can be done.

however, I am not 100% sure it's necessary. Six colors can be done across two sprite pallets if black is eliminated from the face layer and therefore the eyes are moved to the body layer. That would free up one color for the green hair bow. but like I said I'm not 100% sure if the game would allow that, since that would need transparency around both eyes, not just the whole face. Might be a matter of efficiency given the slow clockspeed of the NES.

These are my thoughts. I'd like someone who has worked on Megaman hacks to chime in on this.


July 04, 2013, 12:29:45 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
It took creating and revising an entire character set, but I'm pretty happy with the my new font, and this is what will be used from this point onwards with only minor changes.

The rescue of Kalinka cutscene, with a new translation I've done. Click to enlarge.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 12:31:28 am by Satoshi_Matrix »

Zynk

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2013, 01:16:20 am »
Here's my rendition of Roll. Should Copy Roll have those palettes? I think there should be an alt color for Copy Roll.



I forgot to ask if the third Copy Roll sprite should be a 'Damage' sprite or a 'Jumping' sprite, but I included it as well.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 11:28:44 am by Zynk Oxhyde »

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2013, 09:31:14 pm »
Minor update. I've been working a bit on a new titlescreen.

Here's the original Rockman 4's title.



Notice the subtitle which translates to "A New Ambition!!". Using the same tile size, I've crafted a new custom title:



Alternatively, using the tileset from Megaman 9/10, here's a further custom title with the Megaman branding rather than the original Rockman.



What do you guys think? I'd like to improve the subtitle Minus Infinity as much as possible but I'm not a font expert. This is really maxing out my skills.


Zynk

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2013, 10:19:52 pm »
Could you use the fonts from the Get Weapon screen on the 'Minus Infinity' title?

IMO, the font you use is a bit large.

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2013, 02:16:58 pm »
Too big? Really? The font is the exact same size as the font used for the Japanese subtitle. I matched it pixel for pixel.

The get weapon font is two color, but even more of a problem I think it's too large to use, with spacing gaps and such. I'll look into that, but I don't think it would be possible. Even so, this is very much a work in progress.

I have created what I think will be the final font set though for the regular game. I've thought about everything I could possibly want for the font.


OneCrudeDude

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 03:50:46 am »
I had an idea about hacking this game myself.  The biggest issue I have (but others don't seem to mind as much) is how Mega Man's hitstun time is drastically reduced.  This throws off my timing, and I can't get into it to re-learn a game that will kill me in 2 seconds.  An option to switch between normal (standard hit times) and hard (current hit times) would be sweet as well.

I also have a list of possible things that could be edited, but don't take it as if I demand these changes.

*This uses the MMC5, but doesn't do much in the way of sound except move the "final" phase of the Mega Buster's charge-up sound.  Maybe a cue could be taken and move most sound effects to the MMC5's square waves to prevent sound overlapping.  Again, an option between FC (MMC5 sound) or NES (standard method) would be cool as well.

*The opening custscene appears to be identical to the original game's, and when you set this game to ENG, it's still in Japanese.  Copy/pasting the MM4 intro would be a good suggestion for consistency's sake.

*Once more with the languages, maybe the title screen could change from Rock Man 4 to Mega Man 4 once the language is set.  That is, if there is enough memory.

*Optional, but supposedly this game can only work on Japanese ETROM-1s, despite there being American ETROM-1s.  Would be neat to be able to play this game on a regular NES as opposed to having to wrestle with an oversized Famicom cart that won't work with a converter.

Thanks for listening, and I hope to see my suggestions considered.   :)

Special T

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2013, 08:57:10 am »
Too big? Really? The font is the exact same size as the font used for the Japanese subtitle. I matched it pixel for pixel.

The get weapon font is two color, but even more of a problem I think it's too large to use, with spacing gaps and such. I'll look into that, but I don't think it would be possible. Even so, this is very much a work in progress.

I have created what I think will be the final font set though for the regular game. I've thought about everything I could possibly want for the font.



IMO, Minus Infinity font on the title screen fits perfectly and I like OneCrudeDude suggestion about the switching between rockman / megaman title screen if there is enough memory, if not I like the megaman title screen just because that's what I grew up with.

Satoshi_Matrix

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Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2013, 02:36:15 pm »
I had an idea about hacking this game myself.  The biggest issue I have (but others don't seem to mind as much) is how Mega Man's hitstun time is drastically reduced.  This throws off my timing, and I can't get into it to re-learn a game that will kill me in 2 seconds.  An option to switch between normal (standard hit times) and hard (current hit times) would be sweet as well.

I don't think Puresabe would do this as the whole game is structured around the newer speed of which everything happens. It makes the original Rockman 4 look like its in slow motion. However, if YOU can figure out how to change the hittime for Rockman alone (not also the robot masters and other enemies) then see if you can do that, and then you can offer it as a standalone .ips patch once the whole thing is done, just like how there are multiple .ips patches for other Rockman hacks like No Constancy or Grey Zone. Optional difficulty reduction is good for those who may want it.

This uses the MMC5, but doesn't do much in the way of sound except move the "final" phase of the Mega Buster's charge-up sound.  Maybe a cue could be taken and move most sound effects to the MMC5's square waves to prevent sound overlapping.  Again, an option between FC (MMC5 sound) or NES (standard method) would be cool as well.

That's an excellent idea! Are you able to do that yourself? I'll ask Puresabe about this as it's a minor change that could have a great benefit.


The opening custscene appears to be identical to the original game's, and when you set this game to ENG, it's still in Japanese.  Copy/pasting the MM4 intro would be a good suggestion for consistency's sake.

I've already asked about this. Puresabe plans to remove this to fee up additional space in ROM for the post-game special mode, or use the space to create a new intro or animated titlescreen. This is a work in progress that's to be left unaltered until later as its a low priority.



Once more with the languages, maybe the title screen could change from Rock Man 4 to Mega Man 4 once the language is set.  That is, if there is enough memory.

I think this should be possible. The Rockman and Megaman logos as seen above share the same tileset for the "Man 4" so I'll ask Puresabe about this directly.



supposedly this game can only work on Japanese ETROM-1s, despite there being American ETROM-1s.  Would be neat to be able to play this game on a regular NES as opposed to having to wrestle with an oversized Famicom cart that won't work with a converter.

Where did you hear that? ETROM is ETROM. It shouldn't matter if its 72 pins or 60 pins.


IMO, Minus Infinity font on the title screen fits perfectly and I like OneCrudeDude suggestion about the switching between rockman / megaman title screen if there is enough memory, if not I like the megaman title screen just because that's what I grew up with.

You like my mock up font eh? I think it does look pretty decent, but I'd like someone who maybe has experience in titlescreen hacks to see if they can come up with something better.