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Author Topic: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism  (Read 14923 times)

geishaboy

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2013, 09:45:21 pm »
You know, i dont live in a First World country by any means (despite being next eleven) and even find your FWP claim absurd.

I don't actually understand what you're talking about. I'm sorry?

Quote
So unless issues that dont relate to you get fixed, all other sexism issues are illegitimate?

I mean, I that regard, why discuss games at all? We recently talked about violence in games. Why the fuck do so, when there are some other legitimate violence issues to discuss?

I guess you could say that I find a male character saving a female character in a 20 year old video game to be a complete non-issue to begin with, let alone a gender issue.

Also not saying that people shouldn't discuss certain things, just that groups that claim to want to do something should do just that, and not use it as cover to do whatever they want with a sense of righteousness.

Midna

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2013, 10:01:16 pm »
From what I've seen, feminism has gone from being a womans rights movement to being some kind of anti-male special interest group. It kind of frightens me that you can't so much as question some of their ideas and principles without being branded sexist and opressive.

This could really extend to quite literally any group that has been historically oppressed by white straight males. If your boss is a gay man, and you respect that fact or are even pro-gay rights but simply don't like the way he runs the business, someone will call you a homophobe.

Today, in many cases, calling someone racist or sexist or homophobic has practically become a shorthand for "I don't feel like properly analyzing your criticism, however much water it holds, so I'm just going to brush it off and make you look like an asshole in the process".

Lilinda

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2013, 10:39:13 pm »
From what I've seen, feminism has gone from being a womans rights movement to being some kind of anti-male special interest group. It kind of frightens me that you can't so much as question some of their ideas and principles without being branded sexist and opressive.

It also really annoys me that modern feminists ignore legitimate female rights infringements in places like the middle east and India, and instead analyse the gender roles in video games and pick fights on the internet.

Who's to say you can't talk about the shit that goes down in the middle east/japan/india/etc and gender roles in video games?

These aren't mutually exclusive things, you know...

Also, Feminism is a gigantic movement with tons of folks in it. Surely some folks, even a lot of folks, are gonna be assholes. Stereotyping the entire movement isn't wise.
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geishaboy

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2013, 10:48:39 pm »
Quote from: geishaboy
Also not saying that people shouldn't discuss certain things...

Who's to say you can't talk about the shit that goes down in the middle east/japan/india/etc and gender roles in video games?

I don't know, who IS saying that?

Quote from: geishaboy
From what I've seen...

Quote
Also, Feminism is a gigantic movement with tons of folks in it. Surely some folks, even a lot of folks, are gonna be assholes. Stereotyping the entire movement isn't wise.

Well then it's a good thing that I'm not talking about the movement in it's entirety

Next Gen Cowboy

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2013, 11:18:24 pm »
I don't actually understand what you're talking about. I'm sorry?


I believe that MisterJones was trying to say that he doesn't come from a first world nation, he does however come from one ranked in the next 11, Mexico. He thinks it's absurd that you think that just because a major problem is not the focus a movement or person, then that movement or person is incorrect. This is just how I interpenetrated it, and I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.

That said, I have no opinion to share on the topic for the most part. Political discussion on message boards are not fun, or intriguing to me when everyone is riled up. I think that there are a lot legitimate claims about the poor portrayal of women in video games. I also think that in any group of people there are going to be people that go too far with their ideas, or try to push them too hard, or are not willing to compromise, or see reason.

Then again, I have a lot of complaints about how men are portrayed in video games as well, sometimes on the other end of the spectrum. I'd love to see more strong, well portrayed women who do not cater to the "sex sells" image,and there have been steps taken in that direction. Sometimes these games start out that way and falter along the line like the original concept of Tomb Raider versus what it became, or Parasite Eve. Sometimes it's not an issue at all like Valkyrie Profile. 
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geishaboy

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2013, 11:48:40 pm »
I believe that MisterJones was trying to say that he doesn't come from a first world nation, he does however come from one ranked in the next 11, Mexico. He thinks it's absurd that you think that just because a major problem is not the focus a movement or person, then that movement or person is incorrect. This is just how I interpenetrated it, and I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.

Ah, I see. To some extent I actually do think along those lines. Though probably not so far as to say that the person is "incorrect". I don't think the people are wrong in what they do, or that they have no right to do so, just that it annoys me. Feminists focusing on video games over the hellish treatment of women all over the world frustrates me. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of feminists who devote a lot of their resources to aiding women stuck in hellish conditions in various countries all over the world, who run drop in centers for female vicims of domestic violence, who help women experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace. Those feminists are awesome and should carry the title "feminists" with pride. The problem I have is someone one trolling the internet with a sexists vlog about Mario and Princess Peach trying to carry the same title. It annoys me. It's like if I made a video about how cigarette lighters are dangerous and then told everyone that I was a firefighter.

This is what my original comment was reffering to; an anti-male special interest group is parading under the name of a movement that was originally about equal rights. And that annoys me.

MisterJones

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2013, 11:51:59 pm »
This is just how I interpenetrated it, and I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.

You understandme  :-*

 
I guess you could say that I find a male character saving a female character in a 20 year old video game to be a complete non-issue to begin with, let alone a gender issue.

Were this an isolated case, sure, it definitely would be a non-issue, but as sadly she has pointed out, it is a recurring and dominating portrayal. That's the problem. Where a strong female charcater is mostly the exception and not the norm regarding female protrayals. Hell, if they are strong, they can be usually subverted by the cheesiest of means often.

That's not to say there aren't some really egergious radical feminists that definitely stain the image of actual feminism. I just dont think Anita falls under that category. She may not be the feminist hero most people would hope her to be, but that doesn't make her concerns less valid.
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Singing Soul

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 07:37:01 am »
i so the anita vidio in school sum days ago n i hated it

her complanes r stupid, her matirial is regurgitated frum tvtroops, an is obviusly insultig in a not very veiled maner the industry as awole only cuz she fils entitled to complane abbot everyting cuz she has ovaries. i mean common. suggisting that miyamoto is sexist?? she went overbored.

she maid me so mad i started to investigait abbot feminism n i relized someting...

i favor equality of gender but feminism aint abbot equality enmor atlist in western society its abbot power over men an the erradication of masculinity anita is a fine exemple shi says she is oprissed by vidiogames but tehn her loyal white nights go on to teh resque an give her a fukking 150,000 dollas!! then she has teh gall to complain abbot damisel in distress when she herself took advantage of being one. 150,000 USD mang!! thats 4 zeors!! an she gut them only cuz she is a wuman

feminist like anita want to eradicate ne of the masculine vertious nd replase tehm wit power for femails no the mails cant be heros in her mine men r enemies they cant be portrayed heroically, they must be victimes and girls must have al the power in evry situation

dats rite men have been dying young throughout history in wars and Cole minds. but to anita thats not enough. men must be disposed of the little glory death provided them. now they must have nothing.

sory guys but radical feminism relly makes me mad, its one of teh major forces tearing appart society. I realy would want a society that treated men and wumen equally but crazy feminists like anita make it very, very hard for that to be a reality.
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Pikachumanson

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2013, 02:29:16 am »
Dude, why do type like that? It makes you look retarded.

cobaltex

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 04:56:25 am »
Dude, why do type like that? It makes you look retarded.
I don't think he speaks english, and truth be told I wish he'd at least use google translate cause then at least it wouldn't hurt trying to read his posts. (It's painful, very painful)

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2013, 07:35:40 am »
I don't think he speaks english, and truth be told I wish he'd at least use google translate cause then at least it wouldn't hurt trying to read his posts. (It's painful, very painful)

I have it on word from native Spanish speakers that this isn't a mistranslation thing. I mean, "Mexico" is spelled the same in both languages. It's deliberate.

M-Tee

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2013, 08:18:04 am »
I hate to open this can of worms, though I like to think we're mature enough around here to discuss this, but since the thread title mentions feminism, this video did come out about a week back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

Thanks for posting this. I was previously unaware of this series, and  fully support the breaking of such stereotypes.

Talbain

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2013, 06:31:07 am »
I guess you could say that I find a male character saving a female character in a 20 year old video game to be a complete non-issue to begin with, let alone a gender issue.

Also not saying that people shouldn't discuss certain things, just that groups that claim to want to do something should do just that, and not use it as cover to do whatever they want with a sense of righteousness.
Except that systemic sexism didn't just "happen" twenty years ago, it's still with us today and it continues to be a dominant trend in videogames.  The premise of Bioshock Infinite is you saving Elizabeth.  The premise of Tomb Raider is that you'll want to "protect her" and the writer of the game even said that her being injured so grotesquely was an issue of the right hand not talking to the left (which is to say that the game designers did things which she herself had a problem with, and yet her arguments were ignored).  Halo 4 has an AI that is "saved" by Master Chief, and although there's nothing that necessitates her female form, she's still taken on as one and has been disempowered further and further with each new iteration of the game, the fourth game simply being the most egregious.  Almost every game in the main Mario series franchise has the Damsel in Distress trope as a predominant reason to move the plot forward.

This isn't happening twenty years ago.  It's in full effect today, in almost every AAA game released this year and last.  Minorities have been continuously dis-empowered and ignored for thousands of years by white male patriarchy. 

Also, for god's sake, minorities aren't asking for much.  They're asking for equal treatment, and stating that they have no right to speak is just continued denial of their plight (or that they should "do something" - how is speaking about the issue not "doing something" exactly?).

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5OkHysPNog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQYsB13KBdY

kingofcrusher

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 02:06:07 pm »
^^ Jesus Christ, try reaching a little harder there guy, I think there's still a few armchair-psych cliches you didn't include in your heroic takedown of video games. You forgot all about how Mario stomping on mushrooms is disempowering to the male because it's like he's stompin' on our helmets! That shit is FO' REAL!

MisterJones

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 02:45:58 pm »
I wonder if boyz would be okay if Cho Aniki styled tropes were as dominant as the Damsel in Distress.
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Talbain

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 05:49:22 pm »
^^ Jesus Christ, try reaching a little harder there guy, I think there's still a few armchair-psych cliches you didn't include in your heroic takedown of video games. You forgot all about how Mario stomping on mushrooms is disempowering to the male because it's like he's stompin' on our helmets! That shit is FO' REAL!
Glad to know that you can act like an adult about criticism.  I would ask that if you aren't going to listen to me, that it might be wise to check out some of the links I posted.

Lilinda

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2013, 02:35:38 am »
Except that systemic sexism didn't just "happen" twenty years ago, it's still with us today and it continues to be a dominant trend in videogames.  The premise of Bioshock Infinite is you saving Elizabeth.  The premise of Tomb Raider is that you'll want to "protect her" and the writer of the game even said that her being injured so grotesquely was an issue of the right hand not talking to the left (which is to say that the game designers did things which she herself had a problem with, and yet her arguments were ignored).  Halo 4 has an AI that is "saved" by Master Chief, and although there's nothing that necessitates her female form, she's still taken on as one and has been disempowered further and further with each new iteration of the game, the fourth game simply being the most egregious.  Almost every game in the main Mario series franchise has the Damsel in Distress trope as a predominant reason to move the plot forward.

This isn't happening twenty years ago.  It's in full effect today, in almost every AAA game released this year and last.  Minorities have been continuously dis-empowered and ignored for thousands of years by white male patriarchy. 

Also, for god's sake, minorities aren't asking for much.  They're asking for equal treatment, and stating that they have no right to speak is just continued denial of their plight (or that they should "do something" - how is speaking about the issue not "doing something" exactly?).

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5OkHysPNog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQYsB13KBdY

I wanna point out that the guy that was talking about the protecting Lara Croft thing was a producer and not really that fucking involved with the game. He was projecting his own sexual/whatever fantasies on the game. In addition, the supposed save her from being raped scene, again from that interview? Was just her being choked out.

Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, as I agree with it, but I felt I had to point out those two things.
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Talbain

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2013, 05:04:47 pm »
I wanna point out that the guy that was talking about the protecting Lara Croft thing was a producer and not really that fucking involved with the game. He was projecting his own sexual/whatever fantasies on the game. In addition, the supposed save her from being raped scene, again from that interview? Was just her being choked out.

Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, as I agree with it, but I felt I had to point out those two things.
That's fair, but if we must admit that the producer acted like that, then there must be a deep problem with how either the producer or other people in the industry feel about what they're putting out there as acceptable.  I think the biggest problem is the lack of shame they have about it.  It's their inability to admit that it wasn't appropriate, or at the very least that it wasn't within the realm of good taste.  And this is discounting the videogame itself, I'm just basing this on what he said, regardless of the context of the videogame he was talking about.

Lilinda

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 05:30:52 pm »
They did quickly distance themselves from the sexist idiot... Gotta give 'em that, at least.
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Talbain

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Re: Donkey Kong Hack X Feminism
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 10:05:57 pm »
They did quickly distance themselves from the sexist idiot... Gotta give 'em that, at least.
True, but I think if he got fired it would have sent out a far more potent message.