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Author Topic: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Multilingual enhancement  (Read 417567 times)

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #620 on: June 10, 2013, 09:56:12 am »
There is a version of FamiTracker that can import nsf files. That would make it fairly easy to convert them to the new format.
The conversion would still mean that something within them would change; if not when importing into FamiTracker, at least when converting again for the new music engine's format. I don't know how clever the NSF reader plugin is, but I've done plenty of work in this area for as long as I have been programming, and I know it is not trivial to recreate the instruments and ADSR curves from the momentary volume & pitch data from the soundchip (which is what the NSF reader has to work with). At worst, you just have 60 frames per second of arbitrary pitches and volumes and dutycycles. This kind of stuff does not compress well; it would have to be converted somehow such that instruments and notes are separated. This involves a lot of manual work, and if you can't just grasp the original idea in the instruments, you get a lossy encoding when you attempt to save space, and people do hear that. If something is, the music is a sacred cow.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 10:09:04 am by Bisqwit »

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #621 on: June 10, 2013, 02:24:58 pm »
I've converted several nsf and they've always sounded identical to me. The only other alternatives you have are to either get the sound engine to work in your custom intro or leave the music out. I don't think there will be much support for leaving the music out.

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #622 on: June 10, 2013, 03:48:21 pm »
I've converted several nsf and they've always sounded identical to me.
The problem is you don't get the music in same size (as original) once you convert it into Famitracker format. It's like comparing a cake recipe to a list of atoms in the baked cake.
That's why I can't replace the music engine without first reverse engineering the existing music engine entirely; and even then the job would be too large. I will just add a separate music engine for the prologue.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 04:55:40 pm by Bisqwit »

Chpexo

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« Reply #623 on: June 10, 2013, 05:57:44 pm »
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:35:00 am by Chpexo »

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #624 on: June 11, 2013, 03:54:07 am »
The problem is you don't get the music in same size (as original) once you convert it into Famitracker format. It's like comparing a cake recipe to a list of atoms in the baked cake.
That's why I can't replace the music engine without first reverse engineering the existing music engine entirely; and even then the job would be too large. I will just add a separate music engine for the prologue.

Really? I never looked into the size differences. I wouldn't have imagined it would be that different, especially with Famitracker's ability to remove duplicate patterns. But I suppose it makes sense the engine itself might be large since it's not really intended to be part of a game.
You know, I'm really surprised no one has ever fully documented CV2's sound engine.

optomon

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #625 on: June 11, 2013, 11:57:33 pm »
I'm surprised no one has held me at gun point and forced me to do it yet. I should get crackin' on it by now.

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #626 on: June 12, 2013, 08:26:13 am »
I'm surprised no one has held me at gun point and forced me to do it yet. I should get crackin' on it by now.

Generally I would presume that a private message suffices :-)
But either I am just imagining, or you never sent me a reply to the second message in which I asked about the sound data.


I admit the "atoms constituting the cake" metaphor was a bit flawed. It would be a more apt description of an MP3/WAV recording of the song. But still, what a NSF player sees is in that general direction comparing to the original data which is comparable to a cake recipe.

I just did a quick check on the NSF importer. Just what I thought: It creates a row for every single frame of the song. No instruments, no effects, no envelopes, no nothing. Just raw frequency & duty & volume data, i.e. exactly what the soundchip receives as the song plays.
It is basically exactly the same thing what I did in 1996 with NESMusa ([1], [2], [3]), except that I didn't know about dutycycles back then and the S3M format I was generating could not reproduce pitch variations in cents, and the iNES SND files I was converting didn't record DPCM samples.

You could have a NSF file that contains an infite loop that simply plays two tones in repeating sequence with a piano-type envelope for 2 minutes. This would fit in about 30 bytes of assembler code in total (of course the NSF file would be padded to 16384 bytes or so, but that is irrelevant). Then you import it into Famitracker, and you get 56 patterns of rows: a note every 16 rows and a volume change every 2 rows. Lots and lots of data.
To give you an idea what's going on.


Are you talking about the G-3 and F-2 chord. Even if you're not, I tend to put in some sharps or "sour" notes when it deals with a creepy atmosphere, in this case Simon is in a graveyard. It would help if you point the place specifically.

Pattern 8, row 1C is what I mostly meant.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 09:15:06 am by Bisqwit »

Sinis

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #627 on: June 12, 2013, 09:04:40 am »
I'm surprised no one has held me at gun point and forced me to do it yet. I should get crackin' on it by now.

I've message spammed you too much already on things similar LOL!  Yeah, sorry about that   :crazy:



@ Bisqwit

I've been meaning to ask as I didn't see it anywhere though a lot of pages have accumulated on this post...too much back tracking lol!  Anyway, you're hack patches will work for the U.S version correct?  I haven't tried it yet since I've been chained by the ankle to real life...haven't had much time to look at you're work let alone try to transcribe on what you do so I can understand of how things work so I can move ahead on my projects lol  :P

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #628 on: June 12, 2013, 09:09:52 am »
Anyway, you're hack patches will work for the U.S version correct?  I haven't tried it yet since [...]

The patch is provided for both the NAR (USA NTSC) and PAL versions as seen on the actual patch vending machine page.

P.S. Twice in your post you used "you're" which is an abbreviation for "you are".
"haven't had much time to look at you are work".
Just thought I should point this out because such a consistent misuse may imply misunderstanding. The word you are looking for is "your".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 09:32:08 am by Bisqwit »

Sinis

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #629 on: June 12, 2013, 12:01:36 pm »
Speed typing and not proof reading is what I do a lot.  I'm guilty to the hilt on doing that kind of stuff lol  :P
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 03:22:14 pm by Craftvania »

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #630 on: June 12, 2013, 02:51:49 pm »
I just did a quick check on the NSF importer. Just what I thought: It creates a row for every single frame of the song. No instruments, no effects, no envelopes, no nothing. Just raw frequency & duty & volume data, i.e. exactly what the soundchip receives as the song plays.

So... is that... good or bad?


You could have a NSF file that contains an infite loop that simply plays two tones in repeating sequence with a piano-type envelope for 2 minutes. This would fit in about 30 bytes of assembler code in total (of course the NSF file would be padded to 16384 bytes or so, but that is irrelevant). Then you import it into Famitracker, and you get 56 patterns of rows: a note every 16 rows and a volume change every 2 rows. Lots and lots of data.


And using the built in duplicate pattern removal doesn't reduce the size of the file?

BRPXQZME

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #631 on: June 12, 2013, 06:15:56 pm »
So... is that... good or bad?
Very bad. You might be able to fit it back into an NES game in theory, but you wouldn’t want to try.

Computers are notoriously bad at finding musical patterns and reducing them to something readably meaningful. It’s not just hard. It’s NP-hard. probably
we are in a horrible and deadly danger

Chpexo

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« Reply #632 on: June 20, 2013, 01:36:15 pm »
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:34:15 am by Chpexo »

Da_GPer

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #633 on: July 05, 2013, 08:49:05 pm »
Please, I hope this project isnt dead.....

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #634 on: July 06, 2013, 08:51:48 am »
Thanks DaGper. While I haven't worked on it since version 2.9.8.5 from 26 days ago, the project is not abandoned.

Things I still hope to do:
-- Add a credits screen behind the title screen on a hotkey¹
-- Add music to the prologue, if I get a good song to use in it*
-- Achievements²
-- Maybe some other things that I have probably completely forgotten about, but might be found by reading this entire thread...

Which brings me to the *music. Thanks Chpexo, I noticed your update when you posted about it. I had not yet posted a reply to it, because ... I haven't been able to decide what to say. Shortly, I don't like it. This is my honest opinion, however blunt it might be. And because it is a faux pas to say something like that to someone who has invested creative effort in it, and I have absolutely no idea how to sugarcoat it, nor how to offer constructive suggestions, I have not posted anything. Well, there we go.

And now about the ¹credits feature. It is fairly low priority, so I have been postponing it until I can work on something more interesting. Actually the same goes for ²achievements. Nobody has really supported the idea -- though not vehemently objecting against either --, so it is quite low priority. Maybe I have just been slacking. Been concentrating a lot on Portal 2 lately. That's why nothing has been happening here... Sorry about that!

Da_GPer

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #635 on: July 06, 2013, 09:08:25 am »
No need to be sorry. Everyone deserves to take a break every now and then otherwise youll go crazy. Go have fun, but please, dont forget to come back. We will cry if you dont.

Bregalad

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #636 on: July 06, 2013, 01:18:10 pm »
I have some project I have not worked on them for 2+ years and they're not abandoned ^^

Chpexo

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« Reply #637 on: July 06, 2013, 08:02:14 pm »
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:32:36 am by Chpexo »

M-Tee

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #638 on: July 07, 2013, 11:54:58 pm »
...You should work with what you get...

Allow me to say that I disagree with this statement and support your decision, Bisqwit, not to compromise your vision by settling for "anything you can get."

Chpexo

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« Reply #639 on: July 08, 2013, 01:14:07 am »
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:32:25 am by Chpexo »