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Author Topic: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Multilingual enhancement  (Read 431728 times)

Turambar

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #560 on: May 13, 2013, 12:21:37 pm »
If putting a Credits option on the menu is not an option, how about pressing Select on the title screen takes you to the Credits screen?
Sounds even easier than a menu option, really.

PhyChris

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #561 on: May 14, 2013, 03:49:30 pm »
I liked the hack and author info on the title screen. At the very least put it on the Password/Save/Load screen.

KingMike

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #562 on: May 14, 2013, 04:09:53 pm »
Too much information, like the Bahamut Lagoon translation title screen, which I always thought looked bad.
The multiple translation logos take one's attention away from the title itself.
Either a separate splash screen (I think that was possible in 2002?) or smaller text credits (like the Square logo) would've given it a much more professional look. And probably without URLs (can't I say I can remember many pro games that put their URL on the title. Possibly as that can become outdated, ruining the beauty of the title a bit?)
(I hope Tomato or Neill doesn't take my criticism personally. :) )
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Pikachumanson

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #563 on: May 14, 2013, 04:43:36 pm »
Splash screens have been possible since the ninties i saw them on some early genesis dumps. It was a dude holding a gun with a white background

Turambar

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #564 on: May 14, 2013, 04:52:20 pm »
I don't like the idea of a splash screen before the title screen, but pressing Select to view a Credits screen seems like a compromise that wouldn't make the purists too angry.
Also, I think that the prologue appears a little too quickly and should be delayed by a few more seconds.

LostTemplar

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #565 on: May 14, 2013, 04:57:50 pm »
Too much information, like the Bahamut Lagoon translation title screen, which I always thought looked bad.

Wow, that looks horrendous! It would look better if there was at least some structure to it. As it is it just looks slapped on...

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #566 on: May 14, 2013, 07:08:27 pm »
Thank you for the discussion re: the title screen. I have decided to agree that the amount of stuff on the title screen must be reduced.

I don't like the idea of a splash screen before the title screen, but pressing Select to view a Credits screen seems like a compromise that wouldn't make the purists too angry.

I agree with this idea. But I would add it on the title screen rather than on the main menu screen. Whether it's a scroll-down to view the version information; whether it shows/hides the version information on the same screen; whether it brings another screen totally; that is up to more planning. I do not like splash screens, so a mandatory splash screen will never happen with this patch.


The purpose of the listing of the patch options along with the version number is twofold:
-- When given a bug report, provide a possibility to identify the exact version with which the bug happens.
-- To avoid the problem of someone passing a stripped-down or otherwise encumbered version as "the" translation release.


The data for the title screen tile layout; does it ever get shifted around? Same for the menu screen.

You probably are referring to the tiles, i.e. VROM content for those particular screens.
They might, but if that happens, it is very rarely. I don't think I'm going to move the Konami logo and the game title graphics around within those VROM pages, but the alphabet may be subject to some rearrangements. The version number string just uses whatever tiles remain otherwise unused. The list of tiles used by the version box is currently hardcoded as this:
Code: [Select]
  $tiles = Array(
    Array(0xEB,0xEC,0xED,0xEE,0x1F,0x20,0xEF,0xF0,0x73,0xB0),
    Array(0xF1,0xF2,0xF3,0xF4,0xF5,0xF6,0xF7,0xF8,0xF9,0xFA),
    Array(0xFB,0xFC,0xFD,0xFE,0xFF,0x36,0x39,0x3A,0x3B,0x3C));
Although, if I change the version information to a hotkey-only display, this is going to change in some ways that I haven't decided yet.

As for the nametable/attribute/palette data for the title screen -- yes, that is subject to random placement within the ROM. It can be placed anywhere in the allowed banks by the linker. You cannot rely on it being at some particular location. It is not intentionally randomized, but the binpacking algorithm can put it anywhere within the constraints of bank numbers. Any time the number of blobs changes or the length of any of them changes, the binpacker can produce a totally different organization for them. You can only know the location of some particular blob by reading the pointers that refer to it. IIRC the location of those pointers is constant (but still different for NTSC versus PAL).
This is the theme for all the data that I modify. Instead of modifying the data in place, I capture the entire data, remember where it is referred from, mark its old location as "free space", and at link-time, place the (now possibly modified) data in some free nook, and update the pointers to the data. Some of those pointers can even be within blobs that are themselves relocated.


By the way, a reminder, even though I haven't so far released the full insertor nor the patch source code, if anyone has questions on its implementation, I will gladly answer any well-defined questions and can also share parts of the source code.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 07:56:25 pm by Bisqwit »

Turambar

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #567 on: May 14, 2013, 07:53:51 pm »
I agree with this idea. But I would add it on the title screen rather than on the main menu screen.
That is actually what I was suggesting.

Whether it's a scroll-down to view the version information; whether it shows/hides the version information on the same screen; whether it brings another screen totally; that is up to more planning. I do not like splash screens, so a mandatory splash screen will never happen with this patch.
I suggest that it switches to another full screen page that looks nice and fancy.
Maybe show off your skills with one of those demoscene style demos with music and everything.

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #568 on: May 14, 2013, 08:08:49 pm »
I suggest that it switches to another full screen page that looks nice and fancy.
Maybe show off your skills with one of those demoscene style demos with music and everything.

Thanks to the prologue sequence hogging up my free space, I don't think I have much room for showing off anymore :P
Let's see...
Code: [Select]
Space after      : 1EA0+1, 386C+1892 - total: 1893
Space after      : 4707+ 3, 4C78+18, 6154+49, 779D+355, 7AF2+14, 7D41+655 - total: 1094
Space (unchanged): BEE2+238 - total: 238
Space after      : EFDE+1058 - total: 1058
Space after      : 10305+  7, 129DD+  3, 13AFD+1235, 13FF9+1 - total: 1246
Space (unchanged): 1596E+658, 16B31+335, 17FC6+10 - total: 1003
Space (unchanged): 1BD80+592 - total: 592
Space after      : 1C317+3, 1C4AE+ 1, 1C4F2+2, 1C9CC+ 1, 1CF1F+  1, 1E08A+2, 1ED8D+3, 1EF08+  2, 1EF79+ 1, 1EFBB+2, 1EFF3+1, 1F067+2, 1F0C2+2, 1F15D+ 1, 1F1BB+ 2, 1F706+  2, 1FCBE+ 2, 1FEE1+1, 1FF6E+2, 1FF89+3 - total: 36
Total after: 7163

It's rather difficult to do meaningful code when your space is split across different banks. Trans-bank calls are expensive, and even more so if you need to access data that is in a different bank.

For comparison, the summary without extended prologue support:
Code: [Select]
Space after      : 1EA0+1, 386C+1892 - total: 1893
Space after      : 4707+ 3, 4C78+18, 6154+49, 779D+355, 7AF2+14, 7D41+655 - total: 1094
Space (unchanged): BEE2+238 - total: 238
Space after      : EFD6+1066 - total: 1066
Space after      : 127AC+  5, 1295C+132, 13C5E+ 882, 13FF9+1 - total: 1020
Space (unchanged): 15967+4889, 17FC6+10 - total: 4899
Space (unchanged): 18008+16328 - total: 16328
Space after      : 1C317+3, 1C4AE+ 1, 1C4F2+2, 1C9CC+ 1, 1CF1F+  1, 1E08A+2, 1ED8D+3, 1EF08+  2, 1EF79+ 1, 1EFBB+2, 1EFF3+1, 1F067+2, 1F0C2+2, 1F15D+ 1, 1F1BB+ 2, 1F706+  2, 1FCBE+ 2, 1FEE1+1, 1FF6E+2, 1FF89+3 - total: 36
Total after: 26561
For curiosity, here's the space, if I remove all optional features (except password support):
Code: [Select]
Space after      : 1EA0+1, 386C+1892 - total: 1893
Space after      : 46F4+22, 4C79+17, 7719+487, 7A9D+ 99, 7C5F+881 - total: 1506
Space (unchanged): BEE2+238 - total: 238
Space after      : E394+ 7228 - total: 7228
Space after      : 127AA+  7, 1294C+148, 13C31+ 927, 13FF2+ 8 - total: 1090
Space (unchanged): 14008+16328 - total: 16328
Space (unchanged): 18008+16328 - total: 16328
Space after      : 1C155+ 1, 1C408+  1, 1C4F2+2, 1C9CC+ 1, 1EF09+  1, 1EFBB+2, 1F067+2, 1F0C2+2, 1F15D+ 1, 1FBFD+ 3 - total: 16
Total after: 44627
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 08:19:39 pm by Bisqwit »

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #569 on: May 14, 2013, 08:55:53 pm »
That first one is really getting tight. Would you gain back a significant amount of free space if you used just still screens for the prologue?

Also, I had an idea. I'm wondering if the first couple of scenes of the prologue would look cool in an all sepia palette?

Pikachumanson

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #570 on: May 14, 2013, 08:59:39 pm »
Nah leave them in color. It looks cooler.

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #571 on: May 14, 2013, 09:30:38 pm »
I'm going to see for myself anyway. :P

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #572 on: May 14, 2013, 09:33:48 pm »
That first one is really getting tight. Would you gain back a significant amount of free space if you used just still screens for the prologue?
Most definitely. Don't want to though.
All the sprite motion data takes up tons of space. It's at least 3 bytes for each frame where something changes on the screen (i.e. 180 bytes per second if something changes every frame), plus 3 * number of actors + 1 bytes for each different frame, plus all the metasprite data, and some more for more data that I can't figure out how to summarize in a single sentence. :-)

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #573 on: May 15, 2013, 05:31:32 am »
Once this is done, I have a feeling  there will have to be a ROM expansion in order to make the additions I want.

Hey, wait a minute. Why not just make the new title screen part of the new intro patch? I mean if people are such purists as to not want a new title screen they probably won't want the intro either. That way you wouldn't need any new files, right?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 07:42:20 am by Vanya »

Da_GPer

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #574 on: May 15, 2013, 09:13:18 am »
Once this is done, I have a feeling  there will have to be a ROM expansion in order to make the additions I want.

Hey, wait a minute. Why not just make the new title screen part of the new intro patch? I mean if people are such purists as to not want a new title screen they probably won't want the intro either. That way you wouldn't need any new files, right?

I already mentioned that earlier.

I agree on both. Maybe giving the person a choice if they want the original title screen or a new one would be a nice option. Also, when you finally reach the end of this project, having an option to not have the version number and choices on the title screen would be nice too, seeing as there would be no more reason to have them on there anyways.

Tater Bear

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #575 on: May 15, 2013, 09:48:19 am »
Hey, wait a minute. Why not just make the new title screen part of the new intro patch? I mean if people are such purists as to not want a new title screen they probably won't want the intro either.

I was thinking the same thing!

keropi

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #576 on: May 15, 2013, 02:56:04 pm »
I hope the crash bug gets squashed soon, just tried the last version and backtracked posts to find about it  :laugh:

Bisqwit

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #577 on: May 15, 2013, 05:01:33 pm »
Version 2.9.8.4 released. The crash bug should be gone now. I think it was caused by an unfortunate coincidence of loading a new scene coinciding with existing scene replay not having finished.

In addition, I rewrote the castle collapse scene as assembler code rather than as a movie replay; this gave me about 1 kilobyte of additional free space. Not much, relatively speaking. There is a small visual difference that this entailed, but only the most obsessive fans will notice :-)

There are no other changes.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:38:31 pm by Bisqwit »

Vanya

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #578 on: May 15, 2013, 10:39:03 pm »
-Bug seems to be gone.
-The misty woman still says "Dracula's body has began to regenerate". Should be "begun".
-Also, "the curse will be finally ended for ever." Sounds awkward, how about; "the curse will finally be ended forever."

Other than that looking good.
Is it just me or did you expand the intro's boarder to the full height of the screen?

KingMike

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Re: Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Finnish & English re-translations
« Reply #579 on: May 16, 2013, 01:41:48 am »
I'll second those.
I think "for ever" is bad spelling, and "has began" sounds like bad grammar. "began" (without has) or "had begun" sound more correct.
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