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Author Topic: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)  (Read 17393 times)

Pyriel

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Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« on: November 04, 2012, 10:21:46 pm »

(Pretty much the most representative image, since most of the bugs are under-the-hood.)

This is a little project I've been working on off-and-on to fix the glaring issues in Suikoden II.  The main purpose is to turn the game into what Konami intended to release, which includes fixing bugs like the Matilda Gate Glitch, the Recipes Bug, and smoothing over translation issues like the monsters in Tenzan pass, and the missing trade gossip.  So far, about thirty bugs have been fixed in the US version, and fixes relevant to the Japanese version and three of the European versions (English, German, Spanish) have been ported.  Most of the fixes remain untested in the non-US versions.  I only recently acquired the Italian and French versions, so very little work has been done there.

A small handful of reported bugs remain, including the climbing game giving out duplicate Turtle Plans, Adlai's recruitment event not deleting the items he requests if you have them equipped, and the dance mini-game's lack of music in the US version.

The bugs are documented on the project wiki: Suikoden Bug Fixes Wiki, along with all the technical information I've taken the time to type up so far.  A work in progress patch is also available on the Wiki.  I'm hurting for testers for the Japanese and European fixes; if anyone is interested in helping out, by all means, feel free.  There's a long-running discussion at the Suikosource Forum where most of the bugs are reported and discussed.

There are some vague plans for a re-translation from Japanese to English.  My feeling is that it's not really necessary, but a couple of people working on translating Suikogaiden take more issue with the localization than I do.  They'll most likely be helping me when the time comes to really go over the game's dialogue, so if they're wanting to do that work, I'll defer to their expertise.

Additional screenshots:


Nobody's ever seen Badeaux in the castle before because the script that should place him there was truncated.


An English translation of the trade gossip was inserted into the US version.  This issue was fixed by Konami in the European versions.  Obviously, it wasn't an issue in Japan.


This enemy (name later edited to "Chimera") is inaccessible in all versions of the game due to Konami omitting its formations from the encounter table.  It's a more powerful version of the Chimera encountered earlier, and drops a Cyclone Rune.  Without this enemy in the tables, the Cyclone Rune is the only elemental rune that cannot be gotten from an enemy.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 10:32:50 pm by Pyriel »

KaioShin

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 08:45:43 am »
Very nice project, I've been intending to replay this game soon and a bugfixed version might just be the final reason to get up and do it.
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Dashman

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 03:05:49 pm »
although most of the bugfixes seem quite good, I feel like advising against fixing the Matilda door glitch. I always thought of it as an easter egg to allow the player to level up quickly at the beginning of the game (never tried to push it further than that, though). I know it's not how it should be played, but try recruiting Clive without this... oh, and the European version (or at least the Spanish one) didn't fix the armor shop bug. great work btw :)

Bregalad

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 03:26:32 pm »
Raah makes me to play this game right away !

I just finished Suikoden 1 recently and now there is like a huge hole in my life.

Is there a french translation available somewhere or will I have to play it in english ?

Pyriel

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 06:10:40 pm »
It was translated into French by Konami when they released the game in Europe.  Like all versions of the game, it's hard to find a legitimate copy, though.  I didn't even know it existed until a little while ago, and it'll be another week or so before there's a patch (mostly not play-tested) for the French version.  There are something like 23 fixes that currently apply to the European games, and all of them require a minor amount of tweaking to work in each region.

The patcher allows you to turn patches on and off.  So if you can't live without the Matilda Gate Glitch, or maxing attack with the Kindness Rune bug, you have the option of not fixing those in your patched copy of the game.  I did that precisely because of the above complaint, and also because there may be some optional tweaks like expanding the wallet later.  I get the love for the Matilda Glitch.  Personally, I was always a big fan of the older RPGs that would only restrict a few places critical to the story, and otherwise let you wander freely.  The sole indication that you maybe shouldn't be here just now was getting hit for four times your total HP by a skeleton in blue armor, but if you could somehow survive the rewards were enormous.

The trouble with this wrinkle is that I had to quickly whip up a GUI and wrap it around my build scripts, because no delta patcher was going to allow that freedom.  Unless I wanted to build dozens of variations for each region anyway.  Once I've got everything mostly stable, I'll probably revisit how the public patcher works.

Gemini

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 06:36:57 pm »
Nice project indeed! :D Suikoden 2 sure needs some love.
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DragonmasterX

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 07:31:32 am »
Suikogaiden 1&2 still needs a ton of work. I decided to join up last night as translation checker and checked one file so far. They still haven't responded to my e-mail(been about 24 hours now) on how exactly they'd like me to go about the translation check, so I may just drop out if I don't get a response within a week. My impression is that they are sort of burned out right now from all the text.

So if a re-translation for Suikoden 2 is ever done, it will likely way be in the future.

Pyriel

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 08:40:17 am »
Yeah, it's not an immediate thing.  I really feel like I can fix most of the issues in the English text with very little need for assistance from skilled translators.  The biggest problem is that Konami seems to have skipped over review and revision due to time constraints, so the most frequent issues are fairly minor oddities in word choice, spelling and grammar.  The egregious errors, like Teresa appearing to deliver Jowy's lines at one point, and the untranslated text are either documented, or would only require a few hours of a translators time.  I'm going to work on a set of tools for reviewing, editing and inserting game text, just to fix the known and obvious issues in any case, and if they want to apply that to a re-translation, I have no problem with it.

I'm not really clear on the progress of the Suikogaiden translations.  It seemed like the script for the original was completed,  and all the major technical hurdles resolved a year ago.  They just needed to insert the scripts, and redone graphics, rebuild the game's files, and start reviewing.  Then it just sort of went stagnant for months, with Rinuzuki only popping in maybe once a month, and the latest technical discussions were about how the virtual file system works.  I've considered lending a hand, but I really don't care for those visual novel style games.  Which is funny, because I probably wouldn't mind them, if they'd been released as Choose Your Own Adventure comics or something.  I'd be rebuilding the thing as an interactive e-book for the iPad, and then Konami would sue me into oblivion.

Dashman

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 08:37:13 pm »
well, this project made me start a replay on Suikoden II :P I've been checking the bug fixes and wow, I have to admit some of the bugs went totally unnoticed the first time I played this game. now with my mind set (slightly) into finding weird stuff, I've noticed what seems to be another bug found in the European (Spanish) version:

if you have a full inventory and receive an item after a battle, you get the choice of dropping it or put it in your "bag", dropping another item instead. selecting the latter option will pop up an inventory window to let you choose the item to drop. when you set the cursor over an item that hasn't still been appraised (i.e. ? vase), the description shown is the one of the appraised item (instead of "not appraised object").

seeing how you've managed to fix a similar issue (the scroll shop), I hope this won't be difficult. keep up the good work! :)

Niahak

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2012, 11:08:41 pm »
I'm not really clear on the progress of the Suikogaiden translations.  It seemed like the script for the original was completed,  and all the major technical hurdles resolved a year ago.  They just needed to insert the scripts, and redone graphics, rebuild the game's files, and start reviewing.  Then it just sort of went stagnant for months, with Rinuzuki only popping in maybe once a month, and the latest technical discussions were about how the virtual file system works.  I've considered lending a hand, but I really don't care for those visual novel style games.  Which is funny, because I probably wouldn't mind them, if they'd been released as Choose Your Own Adventure comics or something.  I'd be rebuilding the thing as an interactive e-book for the iPad, and then Konami would sue me into oblivion.

Yep.  As the translator for Ch. 4, the scripts were 75% done two or three years ago and 100% done at least a year ago.  The tech guys don't even remember who I am since I'm not very active on the forum and most of the original tech guys lost interest.

It's kind of been a mess, since the original translators for chapters 2 and 3 gave up and Rin ended up picking up the slack.  Most of it's been edited IIRC (Chapter 4 was "complete" last I heard, but I haven't checked) and we're just waiting on the tech side of things.  There's no real focus to the project anymore, and it's a shame since our progress was so rapid right at the start.

I think it'll still finish eventually, but I have a feeling it will not be a consistent product with work from multiple translators and a lack of focused editing over the course of three years.  Supposedly the script for Gaiden 2 is more than half done.

I've heard that usually the translators are the long pole in the tent.  It's weird to see a project in the shape Gaiden is in, even for someone like me with relatively little experience.

@DragonMasterX - I think the script could really use your help, and I hope you don't give up on the project.  Rin is never responsive (one of our endemic problems) and the project is mostly self-driven at this point.  Pretty sure that's the reason the wiki was setup last year.  It's probably easiest to use the wiki to make suggestions at this point, but I'm not sure how much activity still happens there.  If you make changes in the wiki and post something on the Suikoden Wikispace subforum, your work shouldn't get lost.



I don't take as much issue with the Suikoden 2 script as others.  I've read that the original translation was made under some pretty heavy constraints (like having lines only and not information about which character is speaking at any given time).  I think there's some cleanup to be done with lines that are vague, but I would guess the core of the script is good (not that I've looked at the original) and really just needs some proofreading.

Sorry - don't mean to derail this topic which is about some really awesome work.

Pyriel

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 08:38:14 am »
well, this project made me start a replay on Suikoden II :P I've been checking the bug fixes and wow, I have to admit some of the bugs went totally unnoticed the first time I played this game. now with my mind set (slightly) into finding weird stuff, I've noticed what seems to be another bug found in the European (Spanish) version:

if you have a full inventory and receive an item after a battle, you get the choice of dropping it or put it in your "bag", dropping another item instead. selecting the latter option will pop up an inventory window to let you choose the item to drop. when you set the cursor over an item that hasn't still been appraised (i.e. ? vase), the description shown is the one of the appraised item (instead of "not appraised object").

seeing how you've managed to fix a similar issue (the scroll shop), I hope this won't be difficult. keep up the good work! :)
Thanks.  As far as I know, that bug has never been reported, so good catch.  It should be an easy fix.  They have a function that retrieves descriptions, and one that wraps around it and outputs defaults for unidentified stuff.  A couple of people didn't get the memo on which one to use, I guess.

I'm guessing the Gaiden translations would be going fairly normally, if not for everything taking such a long time.  I'd kind of expect a project like that, using a mix of people experienced and inexperienced in doing fan translations of games, to see a huge burst early, then settle into doldrums while the translators work up a first draft, and then the technical workers play catch-up and solve any problems they didn't foresee in order to wedge the draft into the game.  Then it's just a matter of review and refinement.  Or so I assume.  It seems like the delays have led to more delays because of lost expertise and so forth.  It also seems like this is a first or second translation project for most of the people involved, so some stumbling is to be expected.

I'm with you on the Suikoden II script.  Given the parameters of the project and the issues they faced, the translators did a phenomenal job.  Like I said, I want to put together tools that make it easier to review and modify the text.  I'd might as well make it support the Japanese character set while I'm at it, so if anybody wants to clean up, re-translate, or translate one version to a new language, it'll be possible.

I don't know how the scripts and such were presented to the original translators, but in the compiled data things are really weird and disjointed.  You have arrays of dialogue pointers and arrays of pointers to them, and none of them have any counts or bounds associated with them.  Everything is referenced by relative indices.  If you want someone to say line 0 in array 0, that's all you tell it, which is fine.  Where it gets confusing is that each area, say Ryube, has a list of every actor/element that can be on the screen, and this is then referenced by multiple arrays that define what is in the room at given times.  I've taken to calling them "taxonomies" and "ecosystems" to keep them straight in my head.  At any given time, an ecosystem might have 1 of a particular NPC or creature, or twenty, but the taxonomy only holds them once.  Anyway, the scripts reference items by their index into the ecosystem, so looking at any given file, it's difficult to tell if character 9 is say Eilie or some random NPC, or a treasure chest, because it depends on which ecosystem is in effect.  There are two script handlers, and one can pass data into the second, so you might see dialogue as a reference to the ecosystem "character 8 says array 1, line 2", or the first script handler will determine that character 8 is being interacted with, and the second handler will do something like "current object says array 1, line 2".  Additionally, your party always takes up the first 8 slots in the ecosystem (6 in the battle party + 2 in the entourage/convoy).  I've not yet worked out how you determine which character is speaking when it summons dialogue for your party.  I don't know if the game forces required members into specific positions, or if it has to search, or if they just bypass the need to worry about it somehow.  I'm pretty sure it's the forced positions, because the hero is always referenced as index 0 in the scripts I've reviewed.  If they were handed these scripts in any form that required them to decipher all that, it's a miracle we didn't get horrible Engrish with people just calling each other "mister" half the time.

PsySlaver

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 06:29:32 am »
Nice project! I registered just to comment.

Some bugs/weirdness I've noticed:

-I'm pretty sure some of the characters join you equipped with items that are over the usual limit that you can actually have with enemy drops and shopping (Medicines, Scrolls, etc.).

-I'm not sure what triggers this one, but it happened to me multiple times. After Nanami is wounded during the Rockaxe fiasco, your Stars start using a different dialogue pattern to address her death. After some plot events, they revert to their original pattern. For some weird reason, I've had them revert back to the "sad" pattern a few times after the final army battle. I'm not sure if anyone else has ever seen this happen.




Pyriel

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 08:36:07 am »
  • If you mean higher quantities than expected, like "Angry Blow x8" or "Medicine x9", that's not a bug.  Any item that comes in sets like that can have as many as 9 copies.  The developers just elected to have some people join up with sets that you can't otherwise get, or that are only dropped very rarely by certain enemies.
  • I'll keep an eye out, but I can't promise much will happen without more details and specific information.  There's supposedly a bug in Tinto that pops up when you do certain events in unexpected sequences.  I've actually seen video of it happening, but I can't get it to trigger for me at all.  This sounds like it might be a similar thing.  Also, does it happen when she's really dead or fake dead, or both?

PsySlaver

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 10:21:49 am »
I've only seen it happening when she is fake dead, but it doesn't seem to me that it would make much of a difference - she is essentially removed from the game and only shows up again in the ending - the Star Tablet lists her as dead anyways.

Also, the "sad" pattern returning doesn't require you to finish the game - it happened to me after I had access to the final dungeon. I remember having a save where this would start out of nowhere - like talking to Leona to change my party and getting the usual script, and then talking to her again and getting the sad one.

I think I should mention this was on real hardware and with an original game.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 10:53:53 am by PsySlaver »

KaOSoFt

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Re: Suikoden II Bug Fixes (PSX)
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 05:25:35 pm »
Holy Suikoden II!

I tried the Spanish version years ago (after finishing the first Suikoden).

First, I initially had trouble trying to import the first game save (American version, which was what caused trouble with my Spanish version). I think I managed to, but I don’t remember now.

Second, the Spanish version kind of had the same translation treatment as Final Fantasy VII in Spanish had: a total fiasco. Sure, mostly was understandable, but heck, annoying as hell.

I stopped playing after certain someone defects.

In any case, I wasn’t a hardcore player, so I have no idea of most of these bugs, but this projects seems like motivation to start again with the English version, fixed, as a Christmas present.

Thanks in advance for your support! Keep it up! Time to enjoy!
To be human is to know the fear of death, yet keep on fighting.