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Author Topic: Looking for some input on a certain project...  (Read 4529 times)

Ryusui

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Looking for some input on a certain project...
« on: August 01, 2012, 04:22:54 am »
Quote
大きな事件というものは、たいてい何事も起こりそうにない平穏な日に始まる…
The moment when everything changes tends to happen when we fear that nothing ever will...

Yes, it takes some liberties, but I was taking the context of the game's story in mind. What do you think?

Also, about the credits:

http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Company:Minato_Giken_(credits)#Akagawa_Jirou:_Majo-tachi_no_Nemuri_.28SFC.29

How best to render the titles "原作・監修" and "脚本"? "Scenario" sounds good for the second, but I'm not sure about "Original Work" for the first. I'd also like some second opinions on the names, if no one minds.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 05:20:43 am by Ryusui »
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danke

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 05:20:57 am »
Original Work - Producer would work, if you want to stick to real industry titles. Or even executive producer if you want it to sound more important.

As for the other, Scenario tends to be the standard translation in the video game world. Since it's a visual novel, though... I don't know. "Screenplay" doesn't fit, since it's not a film. "Teleplay" doesn't fit, since it's not television, etc. Manuscript maybe?

LostTemplar

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 05:39:26 am »
Quote
大きな事件というものは、たいてい何事も起こりそうにない平穏な日に始まる…
The moment when everything changes tends to happen when we fear that nothing ever will...

That really is a pretty free translation. Your translation makes it sound like that the protagonist(s) are in a situation where they hope something will change, but nothing happens - then all of a sudden changes start to set in.
The Japanese does sound more like something bad or surprising (implied by 事件) always happens when nobody had expected it (何も起こりそうにない日), on a totally normal and peaceful day.

I don't know the plot at all, so I'm just giving my impression on both sentences.

Ryusui

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 06:28:55 am »
Yeah, I wasn't sure how much to go all "FOREBODE" in there. The story starts with an ordinary office grunt, worn down from his daily grind, receiving a mysterious phone call that, he realizes too late, is his high school sweetheart in mortal peril. Where things go from there is up to the player's choices, but there's a little town with some very dark secrets, murder, mystery, mayhem, madness, and FREAKIN' VAMPIRES...all the things a growing boy needs to be scarred for life. >8D

Quote
"The most terrible things tend to happen on those fine days where nothing could possibly go wrong..."

Any better, you think? Also, I'd still like some advice on those titles.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 06:44:52 am by Ryusui »
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Paul Jensen

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2012, 08:54:02 am »
No offense, but the rendering you gave sounds a little odd to me. I'd render it as:

"Big events always seem to happen on the most uneventful days."

HTH
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geishaboy

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2012, 07:30:40 pm »
When translating stuff like this, conveying the feeling of the source text is more important than literal accuracy. I think your first attempt is just fine.

Eien Ni Hen

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 08:04:54 pm »
No offense, but the rendering you gave sounds a little odd to me. I'd render it as:

"Big events always seem to happen on the most uneventful days."

HTH

I like this translation. It's closer to the original and flows much better.

Also, not to rant, but keep in mind that you're not really translating a game so much as a novel. It's okay to translate a little freely to fit the context of the story, but I'd suggest being very careful to keep the author's intentions and writing style in mind. For example, you wouldn't translate Hemingway into another language using all kinds of flowery, descriptive words.

Rant over, and good luck.  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 08:17:51 pm by Eien Ni Hen »
Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey.

Ryusui

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 09:34:49 pm »
Thanks. ;3

I've posted my current version of the intro on the YouTube/Google Video thread. It...probably helps to have a little context of where and how it appears. Remember - horror game. I was angling for a mood setter like Silent Hill's "the fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh" from the opening movie.
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LostTemplar

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 04:06:30 am »
Your newest version is fine in my opinion. It could maybe be a bit shorter, but I'm really nit-picking here.

"Scenario" and "Original Work/Producer" sound good to me. That's at least what you always read in games, as danke suggested.

When translating stuff like this, conveying the feeling of the source text is more important than literal accuracy. I think your first attempt is just fine.

That's of course true, but after knowing at least a bit of context I don't think that "fear" fits here. The Japanese sentence doesn't feel that way at all.

geishaboy

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 04:20:03 am »

That's of course true, but after knowing at least a bit of context I don't think that "fear" fits here. The Japanese sentence doesn't feel that way at all.

Are we reading the same text from the same game? Ryusuis' original translation fits the intro of the game just fine

LostTemplar

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2012, 04:26:44 am »
Please elaborate. I just can't see where any "fear of no change" was implied. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the English, I'm no native speaker of both languages after all.

Ryusui

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2012, 04:38:45 am »
I think what he means is that my first translation suggests a "personal" aspect that isn't in the original. My revised version removes that - it doesn't matter what you think or feel; it could happen to anyone.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wBM1kld0IU

Yeah, I went with "Author" for the time being. I can change it later; I just wanted to show this off. I had to figure out three variations on the compression scheme to get this far. On a side note, there's this neat little program called PyxelEdit that makes turning graphics into tilemaps a snap. The only wrinkle is that you need some way to convert the exported CSV or XML tilemap to binary format, but that's simple enough to program either way.
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geishaboy

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2012, 04:44:21 am »
Please elaborate. I just can't see where any "fear of no change" was implied. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the English, I'm no native speaker of both languages after all.

I'm no native speaker either (of Japanese), and there is no "fear of change" implied, it's more the subtle usage of the the word "fear". In Ryusuis' translation he uses the word "fear" in the lighter sense, the "I fear we may be running late", thus robbing it of it's darker meaning. This is ripped apart however when the camera pans to the dude hanging from the tree, and the viewer realizes that there really is something to fear.

In the Japanese version this is replaced by the word 平穏. This word means "peaceful" or "tranquil", only it doesn't have a feeling of consistency, it has the feeling of being a temporary state, or that things not are not always calm and quiet. If someone says they enjoy their 平穏な日s, this implies that a lot of their days aren't 平穏 at all. So when the camera pans to the dude hanging from the tree, the viewer get's a strong feeling of things not being right at all, and that it's not 平穏 anymore.

Or at least that's how I saw it. I am quite impressed Ryusui managed to translate something that's written between the lines so well.

Ryusui

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 04:54:10 am »
With my current version, it's more picking up on the connotations of 大きな事件 - as noted, it translates as "big events," "major incidents," etc., but it's clear that these "big events" are not good ones. "The most terrible things" seemed about the right mix of magnitude and threat.
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geishaboy

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 05:02:49 am »
With my current version, it's more picking up on the connotations of 大きな事件 - as noted, it translates as "big events," "major incidents," etc., but it's clear that these "big events" are not good ones. "The most terrible things" seemed about the right mix of magnitude and threat.

Your first translation is the best one, seriously. 大きな事件 might not have the most positive connotations in the world, but I would say that "terrible things" is a bit of a stretch. This is also a play on words as while 事件 does typically mean and event or incident, it is also used as a euphemism for murder (particularly in news articles).

LostTemplar

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2012, 05:15:15 am »
On a side note, there's this neat little program called PyxelEdit that makes turning graphics into tilemaps a snap. The only wrinkle is that you need some way to convert the exported CSV or XML tilemap to binary format, but that's simple enough to program either way.

I just tried it and it really is pretty neat. It's just that I've had my own program that does just that for a few months now - though it's nice to a have a GUI of course. Some things that I feel that are missing: It seems to not have considered tile flipping to further reduce the number of tiles (I thought it would do that - did I miss something?*), and the limited support of color/palette operations. What I'd really like to see is an algorithm that takes a e.g. 256-color image and automatically builds a set number of palettes with a set number of colors each. That would make inserting title screens a lot easier; I've tried writing a program that does that, but the results weren't that good. I guess some research would be necessary. What I'm doing now is to let my program quantize the image tiles to a given array of palettes. Maybe PyxelEdit can do that as well? It's not that I tried everything.

*EDIT: It actually does do tile flipping, I was just looking at the wrong tiles.

I'm no native speaker either (of Japanese), and there is no "fear of change" implied, it's more the subtle usage of the the word "fear". In Ryusuis' translation he uses the word "fear" in the lighter sense, the "I fear we may be running late", thus robbing it of it's darker meaning. This is ripped apart however when the camera pans to the dude hanging from the tree, and the viewer realizes that there really is something to fear.

I'm still not convinced, but I get what you're saying.

In the Japanese version this is replaced by the word 平穏. This word means "peaceful" or "tranquil", only it doesn't have a feeling of consistency, it has the feeling of being a temporary state, or that things not are not always calm and quiet. If someone says they enjoy their 平穏な日s, this implies that a lot of their days aren't 平穏 at all. So when the camera pans to the dude hanging from the tree, the viewer get's a strong feeling of things not being right at all, and that it's not 平穏 anymore.

I'm aware of that, in German I might've translated it as "in Sicherheit wiegen" ("have a false sense of security" - though it definitely has a different feeling than the German expression, so it's hard to actually compare). It's not as subtle as in the Japanese source, but as you implied, translating such nuances is a daunting task.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 05:44:33 am by LostTemplar »

Paul Jensen

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 08:17:36 am »
Not to be rude or anything, but it's a pretty clear cut sentence. I don't see any reason to embellish the phrasing of it.

HTH
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Ryusui

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 04:34:26 pm »
Because...it's a horror game? And it appears right after the screen turns red with the sound of a woman screaming? And it's followed immediately by a shot panning across a forest, eventually revealing a hanged corpse as the title flashes on screen?

I could do a straight translation easily; it'd just be grotesquely out-of-place given the context. Watch the YouTube video I linked to.
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 04:47:49 pm »
Dissonant Serenity, bro. A common storyteller’s conceit.
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Eien Ni Hen

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Re: Looking for some input on a certain project...
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 05:25:12 pm »
Dissonant Serenity, bro. A common storyteller’s conceit.

Seconding this. It's not necessary to shove "scary" in the audience's face. The visuals do that well enough.
Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey.