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Author Topic: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released  (Read 82823 times)

BRPXQZME

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2012, 09:56:54 am »
You could write a VST! But at that point I think it would be outside the scope of how this program normally operates.
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Sinthet

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2012, 10:11:50 am »
Its not quite that simple. If they're using custom formulas to smooth out a custom instrument, thats likely a ton of cryptic assembly code. People who write emulators have a solid understanding of the hardware and its assembly language, but they only have to write a program that performs the assembly instructions exactly as the original hardware would. That doesn't mean they can look at a giant block of ASM and immediately know what it does, especially when the code is manipulating data that is probably being modified in non-standard ways.

These changes are specifically difficult, because by the looks of the readme, they first modified the sound engine, THEN made custom instruments/algorithms to go along with it. Emulators just sequentially execute all the instructions which make up those algorithms, so there's nothing stopping you from just recording the sound (and you'll get a fairly accurate [depending on the emulator] rendition). Ripping MIDI's and SoundFonts is a different story entirely.

EDIT::
Didn't see BRPXQZME (where'd the name come from anyway :D ), meant this as a response to zerowalkers earlier post.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 11:17:50 am by Sinthet »

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2012, 10:47:07 am »
But isn´t it possible to just, emulate the sound?
Or is it just the thing to rip just the sound that makes it different than playing it up in an emulator?

Meaning if you rip the sound, it can´t be emulated like in the emulator?

Sinthet

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2012, 11:16:23 am »
Or is it just the thing to rip just the sound that makes it different than playing it up in an emulator?
Bingo.

When you're playing in an emulator, you're just blindly executing code contained in the ROM. If that code happens to make sounds, that's what it does. You could record that sound, and its all well and good, but ripping is different.

Ripping it (into a format like SoundFont) allows you to listen to it in a lossless format, modify it however you like, etc. Its literally taking the sound data and putting it into a useful form. Emulating produces the correct end result (the music), but not any of the useful work behind it.

I'm not an expert on audio formats, but this is the general difference between the two. Maybe someone with more experience in this area could put it more clearly...

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2012, 11:17:38 am »
Damn, if only these instructions and stuff was known and how it works, cause the sounds in some games as Golden Sun are amazing;S

Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2012, 12:27:55 pm »
What you have to keep in mind is that GBAMusRiper does NOT, under any circonstances, emulate a GBA. It has nothing to do with an emulator.

What it does, in summary, is taking the music data out of ROM, convert them into MIDI, and taking the soundfont data from the ROM and convert it into SF2. It also adds some minor stuff in the MIDI so that the correct sound bank is taken in the SF2 file, so that it's easier to replay the MIDI while it sounds correct.

I'm not even sure what the Golden Sun programmers exactly did. What I can tell is that they use non-standard instruments that are not used in any other game. Also those instruments does not replay when you insert GS music onto another GBA game. So I can conclude that they added something on the top of the sound engine for those special instrument. Why or how they did this is beyond my knowledge.

Now, the problem is that GBAMusRiper don't even *detect* those special Golden Sun instruments.

BRPXQZME

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2012, 01:50:55 pm »
EDIT::
Didn't see BRPXQZME (where'd the name come from anyway :D ), meant this as a response to zerowalkers earlier post.
Friend of mine came up with it when we were in fifth grade, and then I took it, and then I never got around to changing it. Also, this SMF install used to warn about ninja posts but that’s currently broken.

Why or how they did this is beyond my knowledge.
Oh, I’m pretty sure the “why” behind it is that Motoi Sakuraba is so prog rock. If he progged any harder he would slip down a rainbow till he landed in a surrealist painting.
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Sinthet

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2012, 03:41:13 pm »
Also, this SMF install used to warn about ninja posts but that’s currently broken.

Its all good, a nostalgic website with a nostalgic forum  :)

Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2012, 04:32:40 pm »
Quote
Oh, I’m pretty sure the “why” behind it is that Motoi Sakuraba is so prog rock. If he progged any harder he would slip down a rainbow till he landed in a surrealist painting.
Oh, that's really many keyboards !  :o

But Sakuraba is not the only composer liking synths - Uemastu and Mitsuda uses those all the time too. Chrono Trigger has a special system with a sample whose pule width varies automatically with time (therefore it's not really a sample) - it is only used in Mitsuda's song and sound effect not in Uematu's songs - but it sounds really cool. I suspect Golden Sun does something very similar, if not exactly similar.

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2012, 11:53:37 pm »
Just wondering about Chrono Trigger.

Which should i play to get most out of the game, the PSX version och Snes?

I heard that PSX just got cutscenes added, which i don´t really care about, what i do care about is the game and sound etc.

And i do know that SNES has worse audio than Famicom, so should i play Famicom version or does Emulators play Full Audio no matter where it´s from?
Cause i don´t know of it´s Hardware based or hardcoded in the Rom that it´s worse sound as the PAL and NTSC didn´t have as good Sound Chip as the Famicom.

Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2012, 05:25:15 am »
I'm not sure what you are talking about but you should really play the original SNES version. PSX is a lamely emulated version, it is very slow, has filtered sound, etc, etc... DS is quite good and have extra content but somehow it doesn't feel exactly like the original does (should be the different font/translation).

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2012, 05:54:57 am »
Okay, well what i mean is, SNES PAL and US version has worse sound than the original SNES(Famicom, or what it was called).

So i am not sure if the US/PAL Rom got worse sound, or if it simply was the Hardware that did the worse sound and the Rom was the same as the original.

Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2012, 06:12:11 am »
Quote
Okay, well what i mean is, SNES PAL and US version has worse sound than the original SNES(Famicom, or what it was called).
What makes you say that ? I mean all 3 kinds of SNES have the same SPC 700 and the same SDSP in them.

Also Chrono Trigger wasn't released in PAL, not even the PSX remake. The US ROM works fine on a PAL console though.

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2012, 09:57:36 am »
I am pretty sure it has worse sound.
I even have Link To The Past, which has worse sound than the original, not sure how the US version is, but i think it´s the same as PAL in terms of hardware except for the HZ.

But it may just be the hardware, so the roms is the same (except languages etc), and the hardware will just play the sound as best as it can.

One good example in this would be, Link to the past, "Dark World", it has 2 "versions", the non original version which is more, weak and more, simple dull sounding, and the original which you all probably have heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslj06K-Nlw - Original


I don´t find the dull version, but i got it recorded from my Snes, i recorded from an Antenna cable, but it´s stereo and everything, though the picture is hell, not sure how to upload it to show it though.

Sinthet

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2012, 10:13:22 am »
Just a clarification... SNES [Super Nintendo Entertainment System (USA) ] == Super Famicon (JP). The hardware was the same, I'm pretty sure.

Anyway, I'd throw another recommendation for the SNES version. Mostly because its the one I played, and because I've never really heard anyone rave about how much better any of the ports were. If you really are worried about accuracy as you emulate, go with BSNES if your PC can handle it.


zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2012, 10:24:01 am »
There´s the name, Super Famicom, and well, it should have a better sound chip, i am pretty sure of it.

Okay, looked up the dude who talked about it, it seems he was talking about NES and Famicom.
But i still think there is some difference between the Super aswell.

I got an OST with Zelda, and there i got all the Snes sounds in "Original" and "non-original".
The only thing i can come up with, is that they made the same thing with NES and SNES, and Famicom had a better sound on both versions.


Or maybe it´s just the OST that are special against the real ingame sound;S

Have any of you got the Dark World theme sound like the link to youtube i posted above?
Cause i have always had the Duller version, both on my SNES (PAL) and Emulator (which i probably played US).


Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2012, 10:37:41 am »
Again I have no idea what is the non sense you're talking about.

The only difference between the SNES and SFC is mechanical, the electronics inside are identical. The sound quality may be affected how you connect your console to your TV (RF, AV, etc...), as you'll get worse sound with RF (and it will only be in mono too). But this has nothing to do with the region of the console (in SNES's case. In NES/FC's case it's complicated as some models only have RF and some only have AV, but that's not what we are talking about).

zerowalker

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2012, 12:44:31 am »
Well i uploaded the "Dull" version from my SNES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDH6qrI89uk&feature=youtu.be

You can here the difference from the other i linked.

And i don´t think this is Mono, it doesn´t sound like it.

Sinthet

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 10:50:58 pm »
Disclaimer: I know nothing about audio.

The version you just uploaded definitely does sound a bit lower pitched, and less "crisp" (for lack of a better term) than the one you linked previously (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslj06K-Nlw). Unfortunately, its impossible to tell why just from the sound. I thought the audio might have been ripped from a port (GBA, maybe), but then I specifically looked up a SNES version and it sounded exactly like the one you linked.

Maybe try playing around with your emulator's sound settings? Sorry I don't have any better tips :/.



BRPXQZME

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Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2013, 11:39:33 pm »
They pretty much sound the same, with a bit less response in the upper mid frequencies from your recording. That will indeed make it sound dull or less crisp on its own.

It’s probably the connection that makes the difference. Most people are used to how it sounds emulated these days, I guess.
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