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creeperton

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« on: February 24, 2012, 05:22:12 pm »
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 01:00:35 am by creeperton »

Gemini

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Re: Replacement for CD Mage in the works
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 08:27:35 pm »
Some of the features listed there look quite interesting, but they sound like a newbie trap if you ask me. Example: Resize and relocation of files based on the ISO9660 descriptors and file records. Most games just ignore these information, rendering any TOC data manipulation rather useless since said games wouldn't read them at all causing the changes to be entirely ignored. I'd suggest Valendian to write a section of the readme dedicated exclusively to these particular cases, so that people won't cluelessly go WTF whenever they see their hacks not working as they were intended to.
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Jorpho

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Re: Replacement for CD Mage in the works
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 09:00:47 am »
Doesn't ISO Master do a lot of those already?
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Valendian

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Re: Replacement for CD Mage in the works
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 12:04:27 pm »
@Gemini: It's true that the game may ignore the TOC entirely, but that doesn't mean that it isn't important to maintain the TOC. How would you go about extracting/importing files using standard CD image tools if the TOC is invalid? Does it not make sense to keep the files readily accessible. The modder would need to maintain the internal LBAs and filesizes. Which is something you would have to do anyways. But the files would still be visible to general purpose tools. Not just dumped somewhere in the image and out of reach.

Gemini

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Re: Replacement for CD Mage in the works
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 04:12:31 pm »
How would you go about extracting/importing files using standard CD image tools if the TOC is invalid?
Well, you simply ignore the TOC descriptors and don't rely on generic tools. Think of games like Chrono Cross which don't have any ISO9660 file entries. You can still extract and insert them fine, even if there's no name anywhere to be found.

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Does it not make sense to keep the files readily accessible. The modder would need to maintain the internal LBAs and filesizes.
More like the tools doing that part of the job for you. Maintaining most of the stuff manually (if not all of it) is rather tedious and error prone.

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But the files would still be visible to general purpose tools. Not just dumped somewhere in the image and out of reach.
Considering most tools used for this are supposed to work in both read and write modes (unless we're talking about simple viewers), the image entries become quickly useless and it's better if you simply keep using copies stored on a different drive, like an external hard disk. The ISO itself should only be kept for insertion and testing, at least in my opinion. And anyway, even if you kill the TOC descriptors entirely you can still rely on the real information used by the game to access said data, so nothing is really lost in the end other than a few names.
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Valendian

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Re: Replacement for CD Mage in the works
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 11:51:19 pm »
For most PS1 games there are no such tools. I'm thinking of the future reverser that wants to break new ground and explore games that haven't been touched before. This is a situation where generic tools are the only option. You wouldn't need to resort to such a low level approach if there were tools already available that did the job.

I do understand you're point about keeping all the files on disk and keeping the image "clean". But you still have to keep a virgin image somewhere and make copies of it that you can mangle to your hearts content. I do this myself. But what I'm worried about is the time that is wasted to extract the file from the image to disk only to open the file in a hex editor make a few edits and reinsert back into the image. This could be so much more productive and user friendly. Just stick a plugin architecture onto the image tool. There could be a hex editor plugin, or a disassembler plugin, or a TIM plugin. Who knows what a determined user would like to add to it.