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Author Topic: Screenshots  (Read 374359 times)

Gemini

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1460 on: June 27, 2017, 05:26:51 am »
To optimize performance is obvious. Otherwise, black bars were present everywhere (main menu, videos, etc.)
If you look into the code you will notice that it isn't because of GPU performance issues. SOTN was written with some old version of GCC and it doesn't do a very good job at optimization of its own either.
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paul_met

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1461 on: June 27, 2017, 06:14:13 am »
Then good luck displaying hi-res menus in SOTN with all that PSP stretching going on and the same exact black strips appearing in there too.
I do not think that the resolution of 384x207, in which the menu is rendered, can be called Hi-Res. And these menus can also be brought into a more visible look.


If you look into the code you will notice that it isn't because of GPU performance issues. SOTN was written with some old version of GCC and it doesn't do a very good job at optimization of its own either.
And for what do you think these bars were made? On the other screens (except ingame and menus) they are absent. In my memory, the developers have never worried about the overscan. I do not see the need to deliberately hide part of the image, if some low-quality displays in any case will eat this image.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 06:24:09 am by paul_met »

Gemini

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1462 on: June 27, 2017, 07:32:43 am »
I do not think that the resolution of 384x207, in which the menu is rendered, can be called Hi-Res.
It's still generally considered higher resolution than normal 320x240, same goes for scrolling prologue and credits which go even further.

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And for what do you think these bars were made? On the other screens (except ingame and menus) they are absent.
Because this (from the official dev reference document):

Another reason could possibly be to make designs from other programmers less error prone. As for those screens that simply display artwork and a bunch of selections: they aren't exactly cluttered with elements that would cover the action on screen because there is none.

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In my memory, the developers have never worried about the overscan.
Erm, nope.
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paul_met

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1463 on: June 27, 2017, 07:54:41 am »
Another reason could possibly be to make designs from other programmers less error prone. As for those screens that simply display artwork and a bunch of selections: they aren't exactly cluttered with elements that would cover the action
It sounds unconvincing. Why hide something that anyway is not going to be seen? In addition, most PSX games use all 240 lines without any horizontal bars.

Gemini

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1464 on: June 27, 2017, 08:28:00 am »
It sounds unconvincing. Why hide something that anyway is not going to be seen?
Because it isn't hidden, it's effectively not drawn at all due to how the display environment is set up. And to be honest, I suspect it may have been another case of Konami Krack as well. They could have reduced the masked area quite a bit, I give you that.

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In addition, most PSX games use all 240 lines without any horizontal bars.
A good number of games used custom solutions for resolution or rendering, which doesn't mean you need black horizontal strips to cover overscan; all developers would simply not draw anything relevant there.
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paul_met

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1465 on: June 27, 2017, 01:06:43 pm »
Because it isn't hidden, it's effectively not drawn at all due to how the display environment is set up.
Not true. The primitives located in the areas of black bars are drawn in any case.

Gemini

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1466 on: June 27, 2017, 01:36:59 pm »
SOTN cockblocks the screen via scissors, so even if they are there they steal no GPU power at all. In other words, it does confirm that they did that on purpose to avoid people from drawing HUD elements in that area.
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Chronosplit

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1467 on: June 27, 2017, 03:27:41 pm »
Gunna get a translator to help with the parts you have to fill in? Or just default the GBA script?
Good question, because those of you who know FF3USME have probably noticed there are three txt files in that 7zip while the tool can export more. :P

For famiilarity's sake and because the script uses GBA as a  source, the the plan is to usually default to GBA for names and such, unless the script says otherwise (which is rare, but I'm keeping an eye on that).  Location names will be decapitalized.  Keep in mind that this script was already used in Improvement with the only thing not done being the now-done opera, so the filling in is mostlly everything not included in the script dump (location names, item names, monster names, etc.), alignment issues, hoping the opera works out, etc..  Considering this will take a while as I want to do it right, if anything else comes up a Help Wanted Ad may appear.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:48:59 pm by Chronosplit »

Piotyr

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1468 on: June 28, 2017, 04:00:39 pm »
Good question, because those of you who know FF3USME have probably noticed there are three txt files in that 7zip while the tool can export more. :P

For famiilarity's sake and because the script uses GBA as a  source, the the plan is to usually default to GBA for names and such, unless the script says otherwise (which is rare, but I'm keeping an eye on that).  Location names will be decapitalized.  Keep in mind that this script was already used in Improvement with the only thing not done being the now-done opera, so the filling in is mostlly everything not included in the script dump (location names, item names, monster names, etc.), alignment issues, hoping the opera works out, etc..  Considering this will take a while as I want to do it right, if anything else comes up a Help Wanted Ad may appear.
So in your opinion will this be the most accurate translation out there? I heard the GBA script is great but it has a few flaws.

Chronosplit

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1469 on: June 28, 2017, 04:52:04 pm »
So in your opinion will this be the most accurate translation out there? I heard the GBA script is great but it has a few flaws.
Sky Render will always be the most accurate most likely.  I haven't played with all of the US ones, so I can't say for sure among those.  However most I know of go to SNES a little more (Localization Project less so) and this script sticks to more accurate.  Adding in options deleted from US kinda adds to it in this case, I think.

When it comes to things in a menu, for FF games in general I like to keep everything in canon to a point where most players will understand at a glance.  GBA/Mobile fits well in items/weapons for the most part.  Monster names have places in the script, so I'll heed to those where needed.  They are mostly from GBA however when mentioned (Dream Stooges or example).  Therefore, it feels only right to continue that trend.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:40:00 pm by Chronosplit »

KingMike

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1470 on: June 28, 2017, 05:35:10 pm »
If by accurate you mean too-literal? I heard even Sky Render himself thinks it's pretty bad.

That does remind me that Google Translation was just one of the many joke/experiment FF4 translations Tomato supposedly has planned. One of them is supposedly going to be a nauseatingly-literal translation.
I do remember in the first draft of his "Funky Fantasy" patch, the Floating Eyeball translated as "Thailand", and we can guess it was because for space limits, they combined "Float" and "eye" into one word. So it probably got translated as like "Flow Thailand Ball" and then Mato's auto-truncator (which reduces text to fit the space limits) picked Thailand as the most important word. We'll see how Mato can literally translate that one. ;)
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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1471 on: June 28, 2017, 09:51:27 pm »
I think the people that complain about overscan hacks are a bit silly; let people do what they want to do, especially in the age where many are playing this stuff on LCDs or monitors without overscan. It's just another different way to play, and if that's what someone likes (which clearly is the case with the amount of overscan hacks), let them do it! It's not hurting anyone. It baffles me when people seem to almost take offense to it.
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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1472 on: June 30, 2017, 02:22:32 am »
@paul_met:  With the pause screen on Symphony of the Night if you're going to extend it that much maybe you're better off removing the border completely.  I think it would look pretty nice like that.
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paul_met

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1473 on: June 30, 2017, 08:08:21 am »
@paul_met:  With the pause screen on Symphony of the Night if you're going to extend it that much maybe you're better off removing the border completely.  I think it would look pretty nice like that.
By fault of the great and terrible overscan the white frame can completely disappear, If moved it closely to the edges of the screen (regards to all fans of old TV's). ::)

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1474 on: June 30, 2017, 08:40:16 am »
If by accurate you mean too-literal? I heard even Sky Render himself thinks it's pretty bad.

No. What he admitted is that he really needed an editor to look things over, and he noted several places in an LP he did several years ago where he would've done things differently (and possibly better); he's also said that he feels the GBA translation to be pretty reasonable.

SpiderDave

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1475 on: July 03, 2017, 05:11:54 am »


Can you spot what things are changed?  It's very subtle. ;)
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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1476 on: July 08, 2017, 10:39:21 pm »
- Legend of the Super Saiyan retranslation somewhat in progress!

All items, item descriptions and various menu strings have been translated and inserted, though nothing is final except possibly the item names.

I completely redid the item menu to at least keep the screen open but allow the full length of the item names. There is no longer a box that displays what item type it is (IE: Battle, Field, Other).  Instead, I chose to rewrite the item writing system to check items whether you were in battle or on the overworld. If the items are usable in whichever circumstance, they're black, if they're not, they're gray.  Pretty much fulfills the entire need of what the box did but easier to notice and less screen clutter.

The menu now performs a bit differently too, just finished rewriting how the damn controls work. The controls were hard set to be the same for every menu, so I had to shove some data to another area and add a whole slew of new code JUST for the item menus controls.  Up and down now move your cursor up and down, if you hit the top item then press up again, you go to the bottom of the list, vice versa.  Left/right are now the page controls, although it resets the cursor to the very top each time you do so. I'll need to rewrite it a bit so it changes to the item on the next page, or the last item on the next page depending on where you're at. Either way, it works.

VWF is not implemented yet, not sure if I'm going to be able to add one for the item menu though. The way this game handles descriptions is extremely hard-coded into the system itself it looks like so it'd require a massive rewrite. I could probably work around the code a bit, but I'm having troubles understanding what it's doing and why it's doing it in the first place, so I'll hold off on the VWF item descriptions for now.

However, I do hope to implement an actual VWF into the game's dialogue itself and cut down the box sizes to not be nearly as obnoxious. All in all good progress thus far.

Edit: Oh, also, all portraits have been decompressed which speeds up the menu significantly all around, thank god. This game has so much lag it's kind of ridiculous. I believe this is why the battles are so slow as well, everything gets decompressed on the fly.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 10:45:41 pm by justin3009 »
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paul_met

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1477 on: July 12, 2017, 07:15:03 am »
Continues to hacking SotN.

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1478 on: July 12, 2017, 08:03:16 am »
Such a tease.
I know I'm not the only one who wants to see all the Saturn extra content in the PS1 version.

Gemini

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Re: Screenshots
« Reply #1479 on: July 12, 2017, 09:40:41 am »
Easier said than done considering the amount of Konami Krack in SOTN. Then again, not really worth the trouble, those extras are mostly subpar in terms of quality.
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