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Author Topic: Comparing game localizations  (Read 79956 times)

Ryusui

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #160 on: June 05, 2013, 05:04:58 pm »
Quote
With "canon", one has to realise that every language has its own, and thus the original vision is watered down and inconsistent from place to place.  This is the whole point of why we threw canon out.  Some are very angry that we have used "Moguri" and not "Moogle", but look at other countries and you will see they have correctly used "Moguri" and so forth.   It ended up Moogle simply due to an initial mistake;  a mistake that has not been corrected.

What pretentious BS. When every other localization uses "Moogle," it only makes sense to maintain consistency. "Moguri" isn't even a pun that makes sense in English. Now, if Final Fantasy were a franchise with a reputation for crappy inconsistent localizations, then I wouldn't have an issue with them doing whatever the hell they wanted, but...it's not.

What little consistency the Breath of Fire franchise has, I tried to maintain in my translation of BoF2. "Gonghead" was the only exception, and I had a good reason for throwing it out (there are several other enemies in the game whose names suggest that "Gunhead" was the intended romanization), but I'd rather stick it back in than admit that this is even remotely right. And it still frustrates the hell out of me that I missed something major when I fan translated Sylvanian Families - true, "Misty Forest" doesn't even remotely resemble a translation of "Otogi no Kuni," but it's what it's called in the toyline outside of Japan.

This project doesn't strike me as a "retranslation" so much as an ego trip - a bunch of people with an inflated opinion of themselves going "this is how we'd do Final Fantasy VII" rather than "this is how Square-Enix would do Final Fantasy VII now."
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Next Gen Cowboy

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #161 on: June 05, 2013, 05:54:40 pm »
I found that whole paragraph to be pretty annoying. They can do what they wish, but I personally have no interest in the project.

I'm too old, and too apathetic to fight with people over a game that was released 16 years ago. I did enough of that in my younger, and more foolish days.
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #162 on: June 05, 2013, 09:25:25 pm »
-snip-
Ouch, man...

If there’s something wrong with taking that kind of approach (separating it from how they put it in an annoying way), you shouldn’t want to be right. It sounds a lot to me like saying there is only one right way to do a translation, something we as translators know to be patent nonsense.

I mean, no, I certainly would not make that decision myself, but that’s because I (like you) prefer a “commercial” approach—your intended/imaginary audience is someone who just wants to play the game, like a typical enthusiast or customer, but is maybe less tolerant of these linguistic issues, or like you is just “pretending” this is the “real” version of the game (not trying to use the “scare quotes” of mockery so much as as talk in a ludological sense here... a game about picking which translation of a game is the one we want, so to speak); the shared cultural connection or whatever for most gamers will always be the official release or the first translation patch with whatever flaws it had. The mass-market, first-exposure time for most of these games is gone, likely never to return. What remains is the long future. We are fast approaching a point where we have to admit a lot of these JRPGs we admire and put time into (re)translating are a couple decades old, and both the source and target languages as well as the cultural context have changed in some significant ways.

Reverting back to the original language names for something completely original is something you do see in certain “academic” approaches—not uncommon at all in literature—and it seems clear to me that that’s what they’re going for here, no matter how disagreeable some of these decisions seem even to me. This sort of translation is useful for a different sort of audience—not fans, I should say. I have used this sort of approach in various translations of mine that were less for general consumption and more for critical understanding. It takes a lot of the second-guessing out of the translation job and avoids spoon-feeding the reader an interpretation of the text, and that has its merits and demerits; I think I’ll leave it at that.

Arguments over localized names is an execrable form of bikeshedding and I think we who believe in our own ability to adequately satisfy these demanding (dare I say entitled whiny brat?) voices on the Internet are only fooling ourselves. There is a fine line between entertaining a legitimate criticism and entertaining an idiot, and I’ve seen plenty of both, so I’m a little conflicted as to whether it’s a good idea at all to let certain audiences engage....

At any rate, I’d wager it is not a very good idea to try being one of these bozos ourselves, as we ought to know better than others what it’s like to be on the other end of that stick. And I am disappointed and expected better of you :P

(At which point it should be said that my own dissatisfaction in this particular project is more of a not-invented-here thing than a specific problem and retranslating FF1-10 is an item on my “bucket list if it turns out I’m immortal” along with reading a number of really long books and achieving world conqu——peace.)
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Ryusui

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #163 on: June 05, 2013, 11:23:22 pm »
*sigh* I suppose BoF2 probably counts as an ego trip - the whole reason I jumped aboard was because I'd thought "I could write a better translation than this" of the GBA version and decided it was time to put up or shut up. And I suppose there are people who'd prefer a more literal take on the translation.

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Next Gen Cowboy

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #164 on: June 06, 2013, 12:12:43 am »
*sigh* I suppose BoF2 probably counts as an ego trip - the whole reason I jumped aboard was because I'd thought "I could write a better translation than this" of the GBA version and decided it was time to put up or shut up. And I suppose there are people who'd prefer a more literal take on the translation.

In a way much of what's done here is an ego trip. Perhaps it didn't start out that way, but evolved into it. Or perhaps it did start out that way, and grew into something more. Not that ego is the only, or even the contributing factor of so many people here, but there's little doubt in my mind that it plays a part, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I personally don't have a problem with the they're doing, because I'll simply ignore it (they are free to translate how they choose, just as I'm free to ignore what I choose), but I do have a slight problem with the wording in that paragraph, some of the claims that are being made in a condescending manner, and the overall jerkass vibe that, that particular paragraph gives off.

To the best of my knowledge neither of you have stated that people who preferred a translation the the one you were working on were worshiping the original translator as a God. 

That said, the discussion's rather interesting.
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KillerBob

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2013, 07:14:08 am »
Baron 2:

Just wanted to point out that the above name code mistake in the US GBA version was corrected in the European version, where it correctly says Cid instead of Kain.

Tomato

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2013, 12:13:34 pm »
Cool, thanks, I didn't know that! It sounds like the Japanese release had lots of bugs that the NA version fixed, but the NA version had lots of bugs too that the European releases fixed. So many versions  :o

FallenAngel2387

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #167 on: June 13, 2013, 09:07:20 am »
Just be thankful you haven't touched on Ys.

KillerBob

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2013, 08:45:52 pm »
Cool, thanks, I didn't know that! It sounds like the Japanese release had lots of bugs that the NA version fixed, but the NA version had lots of bugs too that the European releases fixed. So many versions  :o
I may be wrong but the way I understand it, the NA version was basically identical to the first bug-ridden Japanese release as they were released just a few days apart. Apparently a Japanese revision was released which included all the bug-fixes of the European release but unfortunately the North American market never got such a revision.

Own the European GBA version myself, only played it once when it was released but somehow it never felt as satisfying as playing the real thing, the number of re-releases of this game are insane. IMO the original classic is still the best.

DSwizzy145

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #169 on: June 18, 2013, 04:55:46 pm »
I've been always curious when i comes to game localisations, but why do certain Japanese games got to have the names changed even though the characters name IS Already in English just makes no sense to me! e.g Bare Knuckle 2/Streets of Rage 2 & Sammy > Skate?

KingMike

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #170 on: June 18, 2013, 05:37:57 pm »
You'd have to ask the people who made it, but it's usually due to marketing.

Because it was the '90s (and always time for Klax) and skateboarding was growing in popularity.
Or if you mean the title, well, Streets of RAGE!! sounds much more exciting that a bare knuckle. :)
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DSwizzy145

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #171 on: June 18, 2013, 06:08:25 pm »
Your Right is was just all the stupid marketing & 90's america craze! :/ "faceplam" but didn't the europeans had the same name as the american version or surprisingly Japanese version? As for the name Streets of Rage does sound more a lil of the point seller. Btw another localisation thing is why games like Super Puyo puyo weren't released as it was & instead we got Kirby's Avalanche or Dr. Robotinc's Mean bean machine?

Next Gen Cowboy

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #172 on: June 18, 2013, 06:29:11 pm »
We got those games because Sonic, and Kirby were popular in the United States, and it's much easier to release a spinoff of something that's popular than it is to introduce a brand new franchise. There's a wider demographic, as you're targeting fans of and already established franchise, and fans of puzzle games.
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DSwizzy145

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #173 on: June 18, 2013, 09:41:13 pm »
@Next gen Cowboy True your right! even though it sucks but your absolutely right about that. Even when trying to establish or introduce a new IP to a different country i'll be hard doing so kind of. But it shouldn't hurt to try someone new for a change instead of the same ol' same ol'. P.S off-topic I'd know this might seem to be a generic statement to a few people that might already know the answer too but Why Sega Never released Rent-A-Hero to America which could've helped their increases to the Genesis sales & the game itself is americanize with it's modern themed era time with a Superhero Comic book style type character & stuff but instead we got Sword of Vermillion :/ even tho it's a good game imo!

KingMike

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2013, 11:21:32 am »
Your Right is was just all the stupid marketing & 90's america craze! :/ "faceplam" but didn't the europeans had the same name as the american version or surprisingly Japanese version? As for the name Streets of Rage does sound more a lil of the point seller. Btw another localisation thing is why games like Super Puyo puyo weren't released as it was & instead we got Kirby's Avalanche or Dr. Robotinc's Mean bean machine?
Because Puyo-Puyo was probably considered cuteness-overload (the Game Gear version of Puyo-Puyo actually has a built-in English mode available if you run the game on a non-Japanese GG, so it's pretty clear Sega had once considered a direct localization). The fact that both Sega and Nintendo felt it should say something.
Of course Panel de Pon got changed because enjoying a game with a large number of fairy girls in America is often considered a euphemism for homosexuality (much less socially acceptable in the '90s, though that's still not a good idea to get into that topic). I'd imagine some of the same thoughts went across the minds of Puyo-Puyo's western marketers.
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DSwizzy145

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #175 on: June 19, 2013, 12:31:57 pm »
@KingMike Yeah your absolutely right! despite how america treats cutesy type anime characters like garbage & perfers characters like Dr. Robotink or someone else stupid! But Why Sega would waste they're time localizating Puyo Puyo to English and then change plans at the end makes no sense to me, Who cares what people say they Bitch & moan about every little speck they find in the games and call it weird or dumb & a waste instead of giving the F'king game a chance! That's what pisses me off as english-speaking people feel about Japanese games & you see why we never get them and start little petitions for no many reasons! P.S Never knew people cared about art in a video game before :huh:

KingMike

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #176 on: June 23, 2013, 01:20:20 pm »
Hey guys
have you played Chrono Trigger today?

Oh wait, that game's actually called Final Fantasy IV! ;)
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LostTemplar

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #177 on: June 23, 2013, 05:23:17 pm »
So we (in Europe) actually did get FFIV back then after all!

DSwizzy145

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #178 on: June 23, 2013, 05:44:29 pm »
How different is the European Translation for Secret of Mana is? I know Hellhound wasn't censored afaik

Tomato

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Re: Comparing game localizations
« Reply #179 on: June 25, 2013, 06:28:52 pm »
In my latest FFIV update I noticed an extra line of text that seemed to come out of nowhere and appear in the Playstation translation, the GBA translation, and the fan translation... but that doesn't seem to exist in the actual Japanese version.

I dunno what's up with that, but KingMike suggested I take a look at an earlier version of the J2E translation, prior to the "anniversary edition". I did some searching and some archive.org-ing and can't find any copies of the old translation patch. Would anyone here be able to help track some down?

The farthest back I was able to find was this: http://web.archive.org/web/20000818041946/http://donut.parodius.com/snes/ff4.html but alas, no archived patch files here or anywhere else :(