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Author Topic: Translations: Translation Complete for the First Adventure Game Relased on the Famicom!  (Read 47883 times)

Ryusui

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I'm not blaming you. ^_^

Your shiroi is an odd duck, though...normally, people who insist on dead-on accuracy are usually posers who don't understand the language. I'm happy for you that you found a translator; that little hang-up seems to kill many a translation project. Still, whatever his/her problems were, what I've seen definitely outclasses, say, the average TV-Nihon fansub (I swear I'm gonna hunt down the guy who thought retaining "de gozaimasu desu" in the script and gut him with a dictionary)...and I'm aware expanding a ROM is a difficult task, so congrats to you there as well.

You've gone through a lot getting your translation out the door, and I can easily respect that...I consider Sylvanian Families to have been a difficult translation project (due mostly to the insane way text is stored in the middle of interpreted byte code; it's more control codes than script), but you've spent years on this...and, like I said before, with the surplus of romhackers and dearth of actual translators, you're extraordinarily lucky to have gotten it translated at all.

So, let me say what I should have said to begin with: Congratulations.
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Lilinda

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I'm not blaming you. ^_^

Your shiroi is an odd duck, though...normally, people who insist on dead-on accuracy are usually posers who don't understand the language. I'm happy for you that you found a translator; that little hang-up seems to kill many a translation project. Still, whatever his/her problems were, what I've seen definitely outclasses, say, the average TV-Nihon fansub (I swear I'm gonna hunt down the guy who thought retaining "de gozaimasu desu" in the script and gut him with a dictionary)...and I'm aware expanding a ROM is a difficult task, so congrats to you there as well.

You've gone through a lot getting your translation out the door, and I can easily respect that...I consider Sylvanian Families to have been a difficult translation project (due mostly to the insane way text is stored in the middle of interpreted byte code; it's more control codes than script), but you've spent years on this...and, like I said before, with the surplus of romhackers and dearth of actual translators, you're extraordinarily lucky to have gotten it translated at all.

So, let me say what I should have said to begin with: Congratulations.

I've watched about 30 episodes of their Transformers: Galaxy Force sub and didn't find a single japanese word left in.
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Neil

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I'm a hacker.  Any complaints about the hacking of the text?

Pass the game and then tell me it sucks.

You could have had a script handed down to you by GOD himself and you'd still find someone bitching about it. Best thing you can do is say "Thank you for the input, i will take that into consideration." Memorize that phrase. It'll come in handy.

Kitsune Sniper

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I'm a hacker.  Any complaints about the hacking of the text?

Any:
  • Words missing letters?
  • Lines wrapping around the screen?
  • Text on the screen in an area that would be chopped off when the game was displayed on a TV (a common problem I find in many translations I play with my Super Wild Card)?
  • Lack of room in the ROM to fit English text (How many people have sucessfully expanded an NES ROM)?

It's interesting that people are being picky about the script now that it has been released, but that no one was interested in helping me get the game translated and edited for the 2 1/2 years I worked to bring this project out.

There's a difference between translating (basic), cleaning up (an editor's job), and "enhancing" (what 4kids does, and Funimation used to do). You can translate something faithfully, and also change the words around so they make better sense, without making them say anything very different. That's what should be the goal of every translator, in my opinion.

I hope you all understand that I really agree with what was said here, assuming what was being said was that all translated game scripts should be cleaned up but that enhancing is optional.  Also understand that I like to play enhanced scripts too, I wasn't really the purist here.

shiroi, the translator, is the only one of our group who speaks Japanese.  Every time I wanted to make a change, it passed through her to make sure that it matched what was really said, not just what sounded good.  It was important to me to be accurate, but even more important to her.

I had to take it upon myself to edit the script to make sure that it all made sense and created a cohesive story, which with the first script it certainly didn't.  Later, every complaint about the script sounding unnatural that was brought up by the beta testers was fixed.  And thank god Radical R put his full effort into this because all the other beta testers dropped out and didn't even manage to finish the game.

shiroi has retired from game translation.  She was the only one who would help and she's been a nice person to work with on all my projects.  Before you make any more comments, take a quick look at King Mike's Kaijuu Monogatari for another script that she translated around the same time for comparison.

Try to not bash our script so much, I've never bashed anyone else's project and about half the translated projects that I have played needed help.  Even the best scripted translations often had a hacking issue or two that have never been fixed.

Pass the game and then tell me it sucks.

Trust me, I'm not bashing your work. I was merely stating my opinion on how games should be localized. Kay?
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Ryusui

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I've watched about 30 episodes of their Transformers: Galaxy Force sub and didn't find a single japanese word left in.

"STINY! WE HAVE A VISITOR FROM AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!"

...Since when are "-tachi" plurals and "-sama" not Japanese words? "-Sama" would be forgivable if this was ancient/medieval Japan, but Megatron is just about as far from the Sengoku as things get. And "Galaxy Convoy-tachi" is sheer dumbassity and laziness.
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I don't see how people can translate detective games. I've got a few I'd like to work on, but I don't want to spoil the whole story for myself.  :-\
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Kitsune Sniper

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I don't see how people can translate detective games. I've got a few I'd like to work on, but I don't want to spoil the whole story for myself.  :-\

That's half the fun right there. Reading stuff and thinking it could go one way but it ends up going in another direction. ;)
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Lilinda

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I've watched about 30 episodes of their Transformers: Galaxy Force sub and didn't find a single japanese word left in.

"STINY! WE HAVE A VISITOR FROM AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!"

...Since when are "-tachi" plurals and "-sama" not Japanese words? "-Sama" would be forgivable if this was ancient/medieval Japan, but Megatron is just about as far from the Sengoku as things get. And "Galaxy Convoy-tachi" is sheer dumbassity and laziness.

I FORGOTS THAT

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Ryusui

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I'm trying the game again...ordering Yasu to start tapping when there's nothing obvious in sight is practically screaming for a reference to "The Red-Headed League". (Sherlock Holmes tests to see if his hypothesis that the conspirators are digging a tunnel into the nearby bank is true by tapping on the pavement with his cane.) It'd probably be too clunky to fit, but just running it past you...

EDIT: Are you sure you didn't accidentally break parts of the game? Just for fun, I tried "Stop the Inquiry" and it just loops me over and over to the same dialogue. And just now, I tried using the "Show an Item" option in the Interrogation Room and Yasu tells me Yukiko said Hirata told her he was going to Kyoto...problem is, I hadn't interrogated her yet. -_-;

Are these bugs present in the original?

EDIT #2: What the hell. I forgot I still had the original version. :p

My God...may I ask, whose idea was it to use those great big clunky menu commands? The Japanese menues (not to mention font) are much cleaner and more elegant...I would have gladly truncated sentences just to keep that. "Move", "Ask", "Files", "Show", "Search", "Call", "Arrest", "Examine", "Items"/"Evidence", "Tap", "Take", "Review", "Dial", "Quit". You may have qualms, but trust me: the translation would only benefit from a nice, clean-looking typewriter font to match the Japanese version's style.

And how was I supposed to learn about Yukiko to begin with? First time I heard of her was when Yasu piped up about something I wasn't supposed to know yet.

EDIT #3: This is getting long, isn't it?

Anyways, I'm stuck. I know there's a secret door in the study where Kouzou was killed and that I'll be damned if it isn't in the right-hand wall. I know that Hirata was last sighted at a temple in Kyoto (though I don't have the slightest idea where he's gone now), Toshi's involved in drug smuggling, Komiya is too vehement in his denial to be clean, Sumoto will play a major role in the story's development and/or denouement and that the 000000000-whatever phone number is pretty much worthless. Oh, and that there are people under the mansion. Trapped? Performing dirty deeds? Both? I know it's gotta have something major to do with the storyline. And what the hell does that stripper Okoi have to do with anything?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 04:56:58 am by Ryusui »
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RadicalR

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Hey there, this is Radical R, the one who beta tested the game.
I have been reading the thread and for the most part, I agree overall.
Yes, the font COULD be better; but I had no trouble reading it. Some of you guys say that some of the script is awkward, and while I'm not going to agure that point, it's READABLE. Yes, it could be improved, but I'm happy that this game can be played through. The translation doesn't intefer with the game.

HINTS
Examine the picture. Try to take it.
Sometimes, you gotta use force to get the answer (TAP)
Examine everything, even around the doors.

Ryusui

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I already checked the crack on the door where it was forced. The key, as it turns out, was used to lock the door from the inside; as such, the murderer could not have escaped or entered through the obvious means. They even said outright when I examined the doorknob that there had to be a secret door. Problem is, I don't know how to get the damn thing open.

The right-hand wall in the study, BTW, was the only place where tapping got a reaction other than the default "nothing here" prompt. So that's how I know where the secret door is.

I examined the painting thoroughly and tried to take it...no luck there.

That's another annoying bug, or series of bugs...I keep getting the lame default reactions even when I know something should be possible, like investigating the temple, and I get weird messages I shouldn't be getting, like "call" telling me I shouldn't be calling people near the Interrogation Room instead of giving me the proper menu at seemingly random intervals (this, I'm suspecting, is less a bug and more a grotesque translation error) or Yasu telling me everything I learned from Hirata's daughter before I even knew he had one to interrogate. What's at fault here? My emu, the ROM, the original game, or the patch?
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shiroi

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Some of you guys say that some of the script is awkward, and while I'm not going to agure that point, it's READABLE. Yes, it could be improved, but I'm happy that this game can be played through. The translation doesn't intefer with the game.

that's not exactly the kind of winning praise i could've hoped for... (;_;)

can't exactly defend myself though. that's half the reason i'm on hiatus, so i can beef up my (current lack of) translation skills...

anyhow, sorry about the medicore script, i'll study super hard!

-shiroi.

Ryusui

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Well, at least you're honest. ^_^

My translation skills aren't perfect, either, and I often struggle without context...Sylvanian Families is a difficult game to get a translated script into, but it's a fairly small game. Not counting control codes, the entire original script is probably around 35K...damn, suddenly my dramatic achievement sounds downright wussy. XD

I admit a lot of stuff in my script is embellishment rather than translation, but never once have I attempted to translate a piece of dialogue without fully understanding its context. Well, there was one time, but it didn't really hurt anything. I understand, however, in this case, that context is a difficult thing to obtain: I pity anyone who tries to fan-translate an Infocom game into their own language.

...You know what? I'm making all the wrong damn assumptions about this translation because it's been handled entirely differently from my own. I mean, you deserve all the slack you can get from me: I'm lucky enough to be my own romhacker, translator and playtester (though I'll probably perform some kind of beta testing...or rather, release candidate testing, as Microsoft would say). The Portopia project has different people working on all three. The only gray area I've had to work with is research: you thought the whole "Port Pier" issue was bad? SF is based on a toyline available across the globe, and it's got different names in different countries. I'm using American English but mostly British namesets for the characters; the U.S. calls them "Calico Critters" and I really would rather not use that name.

I've still got a fair bit of work left to do on Sylvanian Families, but when I get it done (or bored again, whichever ^_^;), I'll definitely take a look at that script myself...
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xorxif

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Just spent an obscene amount of hours trying to finish this damn thing.

I got stuck after going through the maze and getting the item in there, then trying to find Hirata. Got REALLY REALLY frustrated so I had no choice but to start searching for hints or a walkthrough... was really mean of that DvD guy to dangle a walkthru and then yank it away with no hints :( *sniff*

I (eventually) found a video that seems to be some sort of speedrun for the japanese version, which helped me advance a little bit (albeit unfairly.) It helped me find the ring and Kouzou's photograph. The video shows some phone number that I can't seem to figure out where in the game it is given (it's the phone number for the Teradeya Inn.) There's one screen in said video I can't seem to get to, I think it's Kawamura but being unable to read japanese I can't be sure.

There also seem to be some conversations with Okoi that might reveal Kawamura's location that I can't seem to bring out. Possibly with Yumiko as well. Oh and it won't let me take Okoi's picture.

One of the conversations on the island doesn't seem to make sense. Im talking to some guy represented by a * and says something like long time no see blah blah blah...

So it's like 3am (here) now and I'm like arrrgghh sleeeeep so drop some hints okay? Thanx bye omg i just said thnxbye i must be whack tired....

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My stupid web browser posted w/o me clicking post :(

I got stuck after going through the maze and getting the item in there, then trying to find Hirata. Got REALLY REALLY frustrated so I had no choice but to start searching for hints or a walkthrough... was really mean of that DvD guy to dangle a walkthru and then yank it away with no hints :( *sniff*

I'm not mean.  I didn't yank the walkthrough; I made the walkthrough for myself and have never posted it... yet.  I just have a palceholder on my website for it.  Do as others have done.  Follow what I said to do on my website.  Send me an e-mail with a description of where you are stuck and I'll give you a hint.  When I get enough of these (nice) e-mails or a couple weeks go by (whichever comes first) I'll post the walkthrough on my site.

I (eventually) found a video that seems to be some sort of speedrun for the japanese version, which helped me advance a little bit (albeit unfairly.) It helped me find the ring and Kouzou's photograph. The video shows some phone number that I can't seem to figure out where in the game it is given (it's the phone number for the Teradeya Inn.) There's one screen in said video I can't seem to get to, I think it's Kawamura but being unable to read japanese I can't be sure.

Ah, you found the video.  I saw things done in the video that I don't think are possible.
To all who haven't found the video yet: If you wan't to ruin the game, watch the video...

Edit
Things done in the video are possible but only with prior knowledge of playing the game before.  All phone numbers needed in the game come from the manual or the game.  Using them as they are done in the video only makes sense if you played the game already and have turned your NES off and want to get back to where you are quickly.  The other things you have mentioned are all correct.  I have to plead the 5th on the one with the *: from Sumoto.  Let's just say that everything is functioning normally.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2006, 06:34:15 pm by DvD »

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I already checked the crack on the door where it was forced. The key, as it turns out, was used to lock the door from the inside; as such, the murderer could not have escaped or entered through the obvious means. They even said outright when I examined the doorknob that there had to be a secret door. Problem is, I don't know how to get the damn thing open.

The right-hand wall in the study, BTW, was the only place where tapping got a reaction other than the default "nothing here" prompt. So that's how I know where the secret door is.

I examined the painting thoroughly and tried to take it...no luck there.

That's another annoying bug, or series of bugs...I keep getting the lame default reactions even when I know something should be possible, like investigating the temple, and I get weird messages I shouldn't be getting, like "call" telling me I shouldn't be calling people near the Interrogation Room instead of giving me the proper menu at seemingly random intervals (this, I'm suspecting, is less a bug and more a grotesque translation error) or Yasu telling me everything I learned from Hirata's daughter before I even knew he had one to interrogate. What's at fault here? My emu, the ROM, the original game, or the patch?

The fact that you can't take the painting doesn't make any sense at all.  I figured this out before we translated the game!

From your description, something is defintely wrong with your game, I don't know if it the emulator or the original ROM or some strange expanding/patching issue.  Does your original ROM have a header?  You have determine whether to add or replace header in the expander.  I didn't choose to make it that intelligent.

This could explain why you have been having so many problems with our translation. ::)

I feel confident when I say that this translation has NO coding bugs when correctly patched and played on FCE Ultra 0.94, only reponses that Yuji Horii wanted the player to hear. >:( I played through the entire Rev. A just before I released it.  Previously I played through the game on the version just before Rev. A to display every line of text in the game, where I found some punctuation typos and fixed them.  I also found ONE line of text that didn't make sense.  We spent days just figuring out how to change the text to make this one line make sense and have it still be what was originally said.  Heck, I even found an original coding bug doing this and fixed it at this time.  I have documented the disassembled code so much that if you ask me what just about any byte in the ROM does I could probably tell you.  The main decision making code in the game was written in a special pseucode that I wrote a custom disassembler for.  This was done to fit the whole game in the tiny ROM.  Knowing how this worked allowed me to fix both bugs that were present in the game.  I talk about all of this in the ReadMe.

To me, it sounds like you are using an emulator that doesn't support mapper used here.
"Mapper 78: Irem 74HC161/32 - PRG/16K, VROM/8K"
As used by "Uchuusen - Cosmo Carrier by Jaleco"
What emulator are you using?  Please send me an e-mail and I can reply to you personally to make sure you don't have any problems.

Ryusui

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It's official: I am an ass.

I must have tried everything but taking the painting...tried it just now and found the button. -_-;

I also double-checked the Quit command "glitch"; Yasu won't let you quit even in the Japanese version. So you're off the hook there. I need to double-check the whole matter about Hirata's daughter who Yasu magically seems to know everything about, though...

Anyways, nice work on the title screen...the original is all in hiragana and looks fairly lazy.

I'd also like to take this moment to suggest once again that next revision, you trim down the menus a little...maybe it's the old-timey adventure gamer in me talking, but they look too damn cluttered. Use single verbs wherever possible: "Examine", "Take", "Ask", "Hit", "Arrest", "Quit"..."Think" might be a good replacement for "Ponder Suspect"...come on, it's how all the other NES adventure classics did it! Deja Vu, Shadowgate, Maniac Mansion...
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It's official: I am an ass.

I must have tried everything but taking the painting...tried it just now and found the button. -_-;

I really suck at these types of games myself, but that has to be the easiest thing in the game.
Trust me, you are going to need the walkthrough.  I did; that's why I made it!

I also double-checked the Quit command "glitch"; Yasu won't let you quit even in the Japanese version. So you're off the hook there. I need to double-check the whole matter about Hirata's daughter who Yasu magically seems to know everything about, though...

Learing about Yukiko is one of 3 things you mysteriously learn about in the game after doing some fairly unrelated things.  It is not a glitch, but I really don't like it myself.  Possibly it is assumed you have learned about her in the manual, but no one has a copy of the manual.  If anyone does, were dying to translate it.  But never fear, we have just be shown a site that seems to have the story part of the manual for the PC-6601 version!  shiroi is translating it and assuming it is manual text, it we be added to or replace the story text we have in the manual.

This is not a LucasFilm game adventure.  I wish it were.  Monkey Island 1 is the only one that I have ever played w/o having to look something up and it holds a special place in heart because of it.

Anyways, nice work on the title screen...the original is all in hiragana and looks fairly lazy.

Wow, praise.  Ryusui thinks, I did something right.  Amazing.  ;)

I'd also like to take this moment to suggest once again that next revision, you trim down the menus a little...maybe it's the old-timey adventure gamer in me talking, but they look too damn cluttered. Use single verbs wherever possible: "Examine", "Take", "Ask", "Hit", "Arrest", "Quit"..."Think" might be a good replacement for "Ponder Suspect"...come on, it's how all the other NES adventure classics did it! Deja Vu, Shadowgate, Maniac Mansion...

Don't you understand, all of the these classics were written in English and were translated to Japanese? Our menu commands are translations of a Japanese game... made way before any of these games.  We tried a lot of menu names literally YEARS ago, but they just didn't work for the whole game.  You haven't passed the game.

Many the shortened menu commands you list here won't work for the use of the command throughout the game.  Basically one Japansese word translates into more than one word in English and the different English words relate to what the menu command does at different times.  For example, "Take" is right for somethings in the game but defintely wrong for others where it must be "Remove" something IE "Take Something Off".  "Stop the Investigation" (written as "Stop the Inquiry" to fit) is not the same as "Quit," you'll know this when you use this command at the right time.  "Hit" won't work, of course we tried it a long time ago along with "Strike", you think I really like "Top On or Hit"?  But, sometimes you are hitting something and sometimes you are just tapping on something and both things translate to the same Japanese word.  And "Ponder Suspect" was originally "Dtective Notes".  No, that's not a typo, that's all the fit on the line and it didn't make sense anway.  "Ponder Suspect" is what you are doing and it fit.  "Think" is way to general; none of the games you listed above use "Think".

Again, we put a LOT of work into this.  Understand that I personally think that "Investigate Someone" and "Ponder Suspect" are the same thing and it turned out the Yuji Horii did too as he got rid of one of these menu commands in the sequel.

Ryusui

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Actually, the text adventure "Mindshadow" (never ported to a console, unfortunately) had a "Think" command. The premise of the game is something quite different from Portopia, though: you're an amnesiac stranded on an island and your objective is to recover your identity (unfortunately, the game ends exactly when you do so; there is no confrontation with the people who did this to you). The "Think" verb, used in conjuction with certain cues (references to people, places, objects), would give you insight on your missing memory and clues as to what to do next. It's not exactly the same thing, but it's similar.

And another small thing I'd like to point out: you could always resolve any inconsistencies using Yasu's prompt.

Perhaps I'm thinking too much of Clue, but you could also give "Suiri Shiro" and "Sousa Yameru" as "Suggest" (instead of "Think") and "Accuse". You could even use that to fix Yasu's prompt so that it makes more sense if hitting "yes" at the wrong time would put you in a perpetual loop:

Yasu: Come on...
Are you REALLY ready to make
an accusation?


The initial statement of disbelief (am I right in assuming this is in line with his character?) alleviates the feeling of getting the wrong message. Wouldn't you agree?
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