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Author Topic: Translations: Translation Complete for the First Adventure Game Relased on the Famicom!  (Read 48275 times)

Nightcrawler

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@NC: What was the reason the images don't show up in the corresponding thread?

I never wrote any code to do that.
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Neil

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Is it needed? Why clutter up with threads with pictures when they're right on the front page?

Nightcrawler

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Is it needed? Why clutter up with threads with pictures when they're right on the front page?

That's probably the same thinking I had when I didn't bother do code such a thing.
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Gideon Zhi

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Well, there's those of us who navigate directly to the board and generally ignore the front page, and get their news from this forum... *shrug*

q 3

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When I tried to run the ROM expander, I got the error "Failed to load control 'CommonDialog' from COMDLG32.OCX". Luckily Google saved the day, and the version available for download there fixed the problem. Just in case anyone else has trouble.

Ryusui

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Another good example of how I'd rewrite the script is on the front page.

He's the murder victim. Probably doesn't need an alibi.
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KlD

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I've noticed that there's a lot of talk about improving scripts. 

First, to let you know, I was an alpha-tester for PORTOPIA.  The final script is SO much better than the first translation.  I played the game when you'd read something and go "What???".  Getting the context really helped the translation.  Now everything makes sense, even if it can be slightly akward in a few places. 

I understand about doing a nice-sounding translation and have enjoyed some games that have been more liberal with the translation.  There is a point, however, to keeping as true to the original for a historic game.  Some people play classic games (and series) to see how the genre progressed as it matured, what improvements have been made and what has changed.  If you go "way out" with a translation, you lose the ability to do this.  (Would Metal Gear Solid look quite as cool if the other Metal Gear games had been really souped up?) 

I guess I'm getting old, but I played text adventures in the early 80's.  I played those make by Americans.  They weren't that great.  I didn't find that many compelling stories (or even very interesting ones).  I'm not worried by PORTOPIA's translation being a little rough, it probably originally was as it's genre was at its infancy.  Game storytellers have come a long way since then.   

KlD

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KlD:
You don't seem to be American. I can't tell your location, but it's rather difficult for a non-native English speaker to judge the readability of a script.

Games like these require a LOT of script editing, and playthroughs, to make sure things sound right and that the language used is universal enough - otherwise you risk having misspelled names, or making references to something that was removed. If the script is going to be updated eventually then it's cool - but there's still some work to be done on the script.

Edit:
And I am aware of the irony of a non-native English speaker telling him this. Even though technically I am a native speaker. :P
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KlD

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I am not only an american (and a native english speaker), I'm a professor at a college. 

I DO, however, speak two foreign languages (french and german).  I therefore know about a translation sounding natural. 

I can't understand why you think I'm not a native english speaker.  (I do realise I'm not the world's best at spelling, though.) :)

The script was gone over thoroughly.  It was played numerous times and every line of text was viewed in the game itself, to check it.  There are no references to things that were taken out and no mispellings.  Everything makes sense.  The only "flaw" might be that the wording may sound slightly unnatural in places.  However, even if it is slightly non-natural sounding, it is perfectly understandable. 

I wasn't trying to say this translation was perfect, just give the opinion that sometimes it may be better to just translate and not "enhance" too much.


Kitsune Sniper

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I am not only an american (and a native english speaker), I'm a professor at a college. 

I DO, however, speak two foreign languages (french and german).  I therefore know about a translation sounding natural. 

I can't understand why you think I'm not a native english speaker.  (I do realise I'm not the world's best at spelling, though.) :)

The script was gone over thoroughly.  It was played numerous times and every line of text was viewed in the game itself, to check it.  There are no references to things that were taken out and no mispellings.  Everything makes sense.  The only "flaw" might be that the wording may sound slightly unnatural in places.  However, even if it is slightly non-natural sounding, it is perfectly understandable. 

I wasn't trying to say this translation was perfect, just give the opinion that sometimes it may be better to just translate and not "enhance" too much.

Yep, the bad spelling is what made me think you weren't American. That and some of your sentences sound iffy to me. :P

There's a difference between translating (basic), cleaning up (an editor's job), and "enhancing" (what 4kids does, and Funimation used to do). You can translate something faithfully, and also change the words around so they make better sense, without making them say anything very different. That's what should be the goal of every translator, in my opinion.
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KlD

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I totally agree with you. 

However, some of the responses I've read are from people who seem to add quite a bit that wasn't originally in a script.  I was just questioning the wisdom of doing that for some games.   :)

p.s.  I've been explaining things to students all day, and the brain is tired.  That may explain the "iffy" sentances. :D

DvD

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That's a Nintendo font, boy. :) Nintendo did the translation of Dragon Warrior I, not Enix. You probably would have been better off going with something that looked slightly Courierish or Times New Romanish. Something slightly typewritery.

I don't disagree that a typewritery font would look appropriate.  I just really doubt Enix would have bothered to create one.

Yes, I know that Nintendo did the translation of many RPGs (DQ1, FF1, Faxanadu, etc.) trying to stir up the frenzy with Famicom RPGs that already existed in Japan, since the Japanese manufacturers weren't choosing to release them here themselves.  Because of this, I think that Enix would only have considered releasing PSMC AFTER Nintendo translated DQ1, and only if DQ1 proved to be as popular here as it was in Japan, which unfortunately it wasn't.  And if you look at all the games that Enix released here themselves, DQ2,3,4, they never ventured out into creating an entierly new font, just tweak a handful of letters here and there.  That's why I think they would have gone with the DW font or something really close to it for this game.

The only other game I looked to is Door Door, which Enix released first.  Unfortunately, it has only an upper-case font.  But even with that, at least a third for the letters are identical to the DW one.  The vast majority of the rest look very similar.  B, I, J, and the digits look different, but the Door Door ones really don't look as good to me and I couldn't see Enix using the DW lower case and the Door Door upper case!

BTW, the game I am currently working on did need a custom typewritery looking font made for it.  I have already made it, it is highly based off of Courier and it does look good.

As long as a font is legible, it works for me.

DvD

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When I tried to run the ROM expander, I got the error "Failed to load control 'CommonDialog' from COMDLG32.OCX". Luckily Google saved the day, and the version available for download there fixed the problem. Just in case anyone else has trouble.

I guess the OCX was already installed on all the computers I tested this on.  Sorry about that.

Thanks for pointing out where to find it for those who need it.

I don't want to include the OCX in the patch but maybe I'll point to this site in the ReadMe.

Ryusui

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Just because Sylvanian Families 1 needed a drastic overhaul doesn't mean I'd do anything crazy like that to Portopia. If you'd pay attention to both my examples, they're functionally identical to what was already put down: they're just reworded to sound more natural.

"Probably doesn't need an alibi." That's gold right there.
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DvD

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Another good example of how I'd rewrite the script is on the front page.

He's the murder victim. Probably doesn't need an alibi.

Ok, now you are really confusing me.  This is one of the best translated lines in the game to us.

Don't you have a sense of humor?  I belive Yuji Horii did, and this line is only said when Boss asks Yasu what Kouzou's (the victim's) alibi is.  Yasu is responsing with one of his typical wise-ass responses here as he often does whenever Boss does something dumb.


Kitsune Sniper

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Another good example of how I'd rewrite the script is on the front page.

He's the murder victim. Probably doesn't need an alibi.

Ok, now you are really confusing me.  This is one of the best translated lines in the game to us.

Don't you have a sense of humor?  I belive Yuji Horii did, and this line is only said when Boss asks Yasu what Kouzou's (the victim's) alibi is.  Yasu is responsing with one of his typical wise-ass responses here as he often does whenever Boss does something dumb.



Lemme fix it up then.

He's the murder victim. He probably doesn't need an alibi.

That sounds a LOT better. :P
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Ryusui

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You misunderstand. That in italics was my rewrite.

Didn't you read my other post? "Probably doesn't need an alibi" is perfect. I just nixed "to have" because the sentence flows better (IMHO) without it. And all I did with the first half was turn "one who was killed" into the slightly more professional-sounding "murder victim" (though if it's more in line with his character, you could just have him say "He's the dead guy"...)
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Kitsune Sniper

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You misunderstand. That in italics was my rewrite.

Didn't you read my other post? "Probably doesn't need an alibi" is perfect. I just nixed "to have" because the sentence flows better (IMHO) without it. And all I did with the first half was turn "one who was killed" into the slightly more professional-sounding "murder victim" (though if it's more in line with his character, you could just have him say "He's the dead guy"...)

I was taught that omitting pronouns was very bad practice, and only to be used by really crappy authors and good authors who are writing badly. :P
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Ryusui

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But it's a common speech pattern.

One rule I go by a lot is that if a line would sound like crap if spoken, then it has no place in the printed word. My chief problem with the original is that it's verbose: "to have" interrupts the flow of speech, and "one who was killed" just plain doesn't sound right. If he's supposed to be a straight-laced professional, "murder victim" would be more appropriate; someone who would crack that the victim doesn't need an alibi would probably be more colloquial, maybe "the guy who was killed", or just "the dead guy", or maybe even "the guy with the toe tag". >_>
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DvD

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You misunderstand. That in italics was my rewrite.

Didn't you read my other post? "Probably doesn't need an alibi" is perfect. I just nixed "to have" because the sentence flows better (IMHO) without it. And all I did with the first half was turn "one who was killed" into the slightly more professional-sounding "murder victim" (though if it's more in line with his character, you could just have him say "He's the dead guy"...)

Sorry I didn't realise you had edited the line instead of just quoting it.  Again, to my ear, what you wrote sounds so close, to what we wrote, that I didn't even realise that you changed it.

I think listening to all that was said I like:

He's the one who was killed; probably doesn't need an alibi.

(Assuming I went back and found room for a semi-colon in the character table...)

Murder victim just isn't in character with Yasu being a wise-ass.

------------------

I'm a hacker.  Any complaints about the hacking of the text?

Any:
  • Words missing letters?
  • Lines wrapping around the screen?
  • Text on the screen in an area that would be chopped off when the game was displayed on a TV (a common problem I find in many translations I play with my Super Wild Card)?
  • Lack of room in the ROM to fit English text (How many people have sucessfully expanded an NES ROM)?

It's interesting that people are being picky about the script now that it has been released, but that no one was interested in helping me get the game translated and edited for the 2 1/2 years I worked to bring this project out.

There's a difference between translating (basic), cleaning up (an editor's job), and "enhancing" (what 4kids does, and Funimation used to do). You can translate something faithfully, and also change the words around so they make better sense, without making them say anything very different. That's what should be the goal of every translator, in my opinion.

I hope you all understand that I really agree with what was said here, assuming what was being said was that all translated game scripts should be cleaned up but that enhancing is optional.  Also understand that I like to play enhanced scripts too, I wasn't really the purist here.

shiroi, the translator, is the only one of our group who speaks Japanese.  Every time I wanted to make a change, it passed through her to make sure that it matched what was really said, not just what sounded good.  It was important to me to be accurate, but even more important to her.

I had to take it upon myself to edit the script to make sure that it all made sense and created a cohesive story, which with the first script it certainly didn't.  Later, every complaint about the script sounding unnatural that was brought up by the beta testers was fixed.  And thank god Radical R put his full effort into this because all the other beta testers dropped out and didn't even manage to finish the game.

shiroi has retired from game translation.  She was the only one who would help and she's been a nice person to work with on all my projects.  Before you make any more comments, take a quick look at King Mike's Kaijuu Monogatari for another script that she translated around the same time for comparison.

Try to not bash our script so much, I've never bashed anyone else's project and about half the translated projects that I have played needed help.  Even the best scripted translations often had a hacking issue or two that have never been fixed.

Pass the game and then tell me it sucks.