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Author Topic: Japanese Translation Questions  (Read 130663 times)

SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2011, 11:56:05 am »
Quote
Yeah...looks like I was completely freaking wrong. Oh, well. At least I learned how to do it right next time. :3

Well, we learn more from our mistakes anyway (which is to say I'm learning a lot lately), I'm glad you're also getting something out of this.

@BRPXQZME (that's a really hard username to remember):
Yes, I'm starting to realize it's a pretty hard game to translate.

二人とも戦えるのか?何が得意なんだ?
Have both of you been in a battle before? What are your strong points?

まさか。。。死んでいろのか!?
I could have never killed them!

What is the purpose of のか in a sentence? It's a compound of の and か but I'm not sure I understand what it tells me about a sentence. I can't find anything about this in my grammar book.




DarknessSavior

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2011, 07:51:28 pm »
二人とも戦えるのか?何が得意なんだ?
Can both of you fight? What are your specialties?

まさか。。。死んでいるのか!?
It can't be...are they dead!?

That's how I'd translate those two, but I'm not sure of the context. Also, I'm fairly sure you made a typo (死んでいる versus 死んでいろ).

のか is a short-form (informal), masculine way of using んですか. If you're not familiar with that grammar point, it basically is asking for more detailed information.

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Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2011, 11:13:18 pm »
二人とも戦えるのか?何が得意なんだ?
Have both of you been in a battle before? What are your strong points?

まさか。。。死んでいるのか!?
I could have never killed them!

What is the purpose of のか in a sentence? It's a compound of の and か but I'm not sure I understand what it tells me about a sentence. I can't find anything about this in my grammar book.

DS explained this pretty well, but here's a bit more on ~のだ・~のか:

The phrase の (which is different from the possessive particle の) is a pretty nebulous phrase with a lot of meanings. Basically, it serves as a "stand in" for a number of other phrases, like わけ (reason), こと (event/situation), and もの (thing). Syntactically, it's a nominalizer, which means that it turns whatever comes before it into a noun phrase. It also often shows up as just ん.

Pragmatically, の is used when a speaker is making an assumption about something. For example:

1) 二人とも戦えるか?

In the sentence above, the presence of の indicates that the speaker is pretty sure that the listeners know how to fight, but he wants to make absolutely sure. The closest rendering in English would be:

2) (So the situation is that) the two of you know how to fight?

which sounds better as:

2') So, the two of you know how to fight, do you?

The next sentence is very similar:

3) 何が得意なだ?

The speaker assumes that the listeners have some sort of specialty, but he doesn't know what it is. The listeners haven't mentioned that they have a specialty, so the speaker uses (3). If they had  mentioned that they had a specially, he could say:

3') 得意なは (何か)?

Both of these mean:

4) So, what is it that you're good at?

which sounds better as:

4') So, what can you do?

The next sentence is similar to (2):

5) まさか。。。 死んでいるか。

The speaker in (5) isn't making an assumption, but a speculation. This could be rendered as:

6) The explanation couldn't possibly be... that they're dead, could it?

Or possibly:

7) You don't mean... that they're dead?!

I hope this all makes sense. の is a tricky beast.

HTH
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Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2011, 11:34:50 pm »
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You two can fight, right? What do you bring to the party?

No way...they're not dead, are they?

Bah...my skills are more in writing dialogue than straight-up translation, anyway. ^_^;
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2011, 01:37:12 am »
@BRPXQZME (that's a really hard username to remember):
I don’t see why. I remember it every day! :D
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2011, 01:26:06 pm »
Yeah, haha :).

Nice explanation Paul, thank you. I'll put in to use next time I encounter のか。

I have another question.

What are your tips for telling certain カタカナ apart? I have no problem with the ひらがな but certain Katakana are sometimes hard to tell apart for me.

Here's a good example:



ポーンピアス: ???
シーリング: Shadow Seed Ring

I can tell that it's a ン there because of "ring" but otherwise I often have a hard time guessing.

To quote Tae Kim:
Quote
The four characters 「シ」、「ン」、「ツ」、and 「ソ」 are fiendishly similar to each other.

Could you share quick tip to easily identify those Kana at a glance? I know that the ending of certain lines is broader but it's hard to tell on the computer. I'm looking for something really simple and easy to remember.

EDIT: It's Radiant Historia by Atlus.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 02:56:00 pm by SeekerOfPeace »

Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2011, 01:54:05 pm »
ン ("n") and ソ ("so") have one stroke, シ ("shi") and ツ ("tsu") have two.

ン and シ have horizontal strokes, ソ and ツ have vertical ones.

Also, you've misread the bottom one: it's シードリング, "Seed Ring". The top is "Bone Pierce", though judging from the icon, "Pierce" in this instance means "Pierced Earring". So "Bone Earring".

Not to pry, but which game is this, anyway?
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2011, 03:13:31 pm »
It's Radiant Historia, Ryusui.

I've found a way to tell ン and ソ apart (finally!).

Anyways, here's another sentence:

Roche:
相変わらずつれないな。。。
Unfriendly, as usual…

オレ相手ならそれでいいが、
It would be good if we could become companions

地の奴にはそんな無想はやめた方がいいぜ?
Note: I'm pretty sure I made a mistake with the Kanji in red, any idea what it might be?



Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2011, 03:26:07 pm »
It's Radiant Historia, Ryusui.

I've found a way to tell ン and ソ apart (finally!).

Anyways, here's another sentence:

Roche:
相変わらずつれないな。。。
Unfriendly, as usual…

オレ相手ならそれでいいが、
It would be good if we could become companions

地の奴にはそんな無想はやめた方がいいぜ?
Note: I'm pretty sure I made a mistake with the Kanji in red, any idea what it might be?


Um...I've got some good news and some bad news, then.

The good news is, you don't have to work on this anymore.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=88489

The bad news is, you don't have to work on this anymore.

Also, yeah, it's 無愛想 ("unsociability", "bluntness"). Also, are you sure it's 地 and not 他?
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DarknessSavior

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2011, 08:00:50 pm »
ン ("n") and ソ ("so") have one stroke, シ ("shi") and ツ ("tsu") have two.

ン and シ have horizontal strokes, ソ and ツ have vertical ones.

Also, you've misread the bottom one: it's シードリング, "Seed Ring". The top is "Bone Pierce", though judging from the icon, "Pierce" in this instance means "Pierced Earring". So "Bone Earring".

Not to pry, but which game is this, anyway?
I might need new glasses, but that Earring says ポーンピアス. I have no idea what the word is, though. It might be the name of a town, or some other element of the game. But it's definitely not "bone".

~DS
Red Comet: :'( Poor DS. Nobody loves him like RC does. :'(
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2011, 08:33:21 pm »
Pawn earrings. Well, that or....
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Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2011, 09:35:01 pm »
I might need new glasses, but that Earring says ポーンピアス. I have no idea what the word is, though. It might be the name of a town, or some other element of the game. But it's definitely not "bone".

Your right, DS -- that's a はんだくてん (゜). It looks the same as the one in the word ピアス.

One usage of ポーン is as a sound effect for jumping (think *boing*). Does that ring Do those earrings have anything to do with moving or jumping ability?


Roche:
相変わらずつれないな。。。
Unfriendly, as usual…

オレ相手ならそれでいいが、
It would be good if we could become companions

の奴にはそんな無想はやめた方がいいぜ?
Note: I'm pretty sure I made a mistake with the Kanji in red, any idea what it might be?

This should be:

Unfriendly, as always... ("as usual" is fine, too -- personal preference)
It's okay if you're unsociable with me,
but could you not be that way around other people?

The second line is tricky. オレ相手なら means "when you're dealing with me" (なら usually indicates a strong contrast with something else), so the whole line means "It's okay if you're that way when you're dealing with me,".


HTH
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 08:42:05 am by Paul Jensen »
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Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2011, 09:43:26 pm »
Or just "Pawn Piece", as in a physical chess pawn.

Never mind, it's ピアス, not ピース.
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2011, 11:19:08 pm »
It took me an awful long time to wrap my head around the word 相手, since “companion” or “partner” doesn’t quite cut it when it really just means someone you’re with (whether you can even stand them or not... and in anime-world, often not). I often find myself omitting a direct word for it; much better to just cut to the intent of the statement when it shows up.
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Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2011, 12:40:48 am »
It'll be interesting to compare our discussion here with the official English version. It's out February 22nd.

EDIT: IGN has English screens.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 01:44:21 am by Ryusui »
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2011, 05:25:23 pm »
Wowzer! Time for a new project then. Thanks for the heads up though, Ryusui.

This one is Wizardry for the DS. I stopped trying to translate for a bit, I kind of got discouraged over the sheer difficulty of the language.

I'm ok now, time to try some more.

過去世界掌握していた者たち
後世そうとしたのか


(argh the のか again)

Particles in red.
Verb suffixes in brown.

Here’s my first question.

掌握していた:しょうあく is a verb noun followed by する which means to seize or to grab. I’m assuming that いた here is the past form of いる and is part of the verb construction して+いた。

What does it mean when you put the suffix してand いた there? Is いた an auxiliary there?

For example, could I say:
英語を勉強していた?In this case, what would it mean?


In the past some people seized the world…
I don’t really care so much about the translation. I just want to understand how this works.

I'm not moving on until I understand *everything* in this sentence.

I would really appreciate if you answered my question with clear and simple examples so that I can understand this.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 05:51:25 pm by SeekerOfPeace »

Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2011, 05:39:54 pm »
Just FYI, 掌握 is not a verb. It is a noun. 掌握する is a verb.

In fact, the entire first part up to the は is a noun: "Those who took over the world in the past." The は indicates that they are the subject of the sentence.

A rough translation for the rest would be "What was left behind for posterity?"

Quote
The conquerors of the ancient world...
What did they leave behind for future generations?
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2011, 05:52:58 pm »
Thank you Ryusui.

Yup, I thought it meant something along those lines.

What about this though:

Quote
What does it mean when you put the suffix してand いた there? Is いた an auxiliary there?

For example, could I say:
英語を勉強していた?In this case, what would it mean?


DarknessSavior

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2011, 05:56:10 pm »
Here’s my first question.

掌握していた:しょうあく is a verb which means to seize or to grab. I’m assuming that いた here is the past form of いる and is part of the verb construction して+いた。

What does it mean when you put the suffix してand いた there? Is いた an auxiliary there?

Like Ryusui said, 掌握 is a noun. You can turn a great deal of nouns into verbs by adding する to them (they're called "irregular verbs").

していた is the short-form (read: casual/informal) past-tense version of している. When you do て-form of a verb, plus the helper verb いる it indicates a state of something. For example: 今、日本語を勉強している is "I am currently studying Japanese."

For example, could I say:
英語を勉強していた?In this case, what would it mean?
This would mean "I was (in the state of) studying English" literally. I would probably say "I used to study English."

In the past some people seized the world…
I don’t really care so much about the translation. I just want to understand how this works.

I'm not moving on until I understand *everything* in this sentence.

I would really appreciate if you answered my question with clear and simple examples so that I can understand this.
I would probably translate the first sentence differently than Ryusui. I would say "The ones who conquered the world in the past", since they never really explicitly say it was the "ancient world". The second sentence, exactly the same.

Do you understand the volitional construction used in the second sentence (残そう)? That basically is the same as saying 残しましょう, but in informal speech. Add that to とした, and I'm not 100% certain, but I think it implies what they had chosen to leave behind.

In fact, can someone knowledgeable in Japanese grammar explain the verb + とした thing to me?

~DS
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2011, 07:46:52 am »
When it’s volitional+とする, it means “try to <verb>” (in the case that it might not [in the future] or did not [in the past] succeed) or “about to <verb>” (in the case that there is no “try” about the action in question).
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