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Author Topic: Japanese Translation Questions  (Read 130778 times)

Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2010, 10:33:09 pm »
A: Fireproof Attribute (耐炎熱属性)
B: Shock Resistant Attribute (耐衝撃属性)
C: Piercing Resistant Attribute(耐貫通属性)

I'd probably go with Heat Resistance, Shock (or Impact) Resistance, and Pierce (or Bullet) Resistance.

HTH
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2010, 02:33:15 pm »
Thanks to both of you, both good suggestions. I think I'll go with Paul for that one.

昨日ハフマンに友軍の下士官達が着任した。
Yesterday, in Huffman Island, some rookies joined our forces.

そこで、実戦経験の豊富な君に、
Since you have plenty of combat experience,

WAP戦での実戦の感触をレクチャーしてやってほしい。
I will need you give a lecture about the feel of combat in a Wanzer.

Once again, I'm looking for some input, suggestions and so on.

Note 1: about 下士官, I assumed that they were rookies although it's not necessarily the case.

Note 2: The やって confused me there, what does it stand for? Is it related to successfully doing something?

Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2010, 02:39:14 pm »
It's the -te form of やる, "to do/give".
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2010, 03:25:14 pm »
Note 1: about 下士官, I assumed that they were rookies although it's not necessarily the case.
下士官 means “non-commissioned officer” (NCO). You don’t know if they’re rookies, and the likelihood is that they aren’t, unless they’re ranked “Private” or whatever. Woe betide the butterbar who has not been taught the number of ways a senior NCO could end their career... the lieutenant whippersnapper straight from the Academy may outrank every single NCO there is, but he doesn’t have the decades of competent experience the Sergeant/PO does.

Fun fact: My old man is the only USAF officer known to go into the enlisted ranks and earn CMSgt. Due to the unique circumstances under which he got RIF’d in 1980, it’s not likely that anyone else will ever repeat the accomplishment (not that anyone would really want to).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 03:34:59 pm by BRPXQZME »
we are in a horrible and deadly danger

SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2010, 04:23:28 pm »
Yeah, I know. Putting non-commissioned officer felt awkward. I'll use the term once and then use (N.C.O) afterwards. Thanks for the extra info, very insightful.

November 14, 2010, 06:32:09 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I have another question:
3機とも戦闘不能になった時点で

I often meet conjugated words which I'm not familiar with (especially in ひらがな form). Only the dictionary form is useful in search engines to find the meaning which is why I need to find the dictionary form of inflected verbs I don't know.

So, judging from the suffix った this word should be the perfective form of a regular verb.  Now only -う and -る verbs have this kind of perfective ending. So logically, the dictionary form should either be:
なう: no result
or
生る 【なる】: to bear fruit This should be the right answer only in the context it doesn't make much sense to me.

Am I along the right track here, is that a pragmatic methodology to figure out the non-conjugated form of verbs?







« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 06:32:09 pm by SeekerOfPeace »

Tauwasser

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2010, 08:50:18 pm »
You opted for the wrong なる. There are the following words to be found in a casual dictionary look-up:

  • なる (成る; 為る)
  • なる (生る)
  • 鳴る (なる)

This looks like a case of the first one.

cYa,

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Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2010, 08:55:42 pm »
昨日ハフマンに友軍の下士官達が着任した。
Yesterday, in Huffman Island, some rookies joined our forces.

Yesterday some NCOs arrived at their posts on Huffman (Island).

Quote
そこで、実戦経験の豊富な君に、
Since you have plenty of combat experience,

And so, since you have such a wealth of combat experience,

Quote
WAP戦での実戦の感触をレクチャーしてやってほしい。
I will need you give a lecture about the feel of combat in a Wanzer.

I want you to give (them) a lecture about what actual combat is like in a Wanzer.

Quote
Note 1: about 下士官, I assumed that they were rookies although it's not necessarily the case.

They're probably not rookies -- that would be 新入 or 新米.

Quote
Note 2: The やって confused me there, what does it stand for? Is it related to successfully doing something?

やる means a lot of things, but here it means "to do for the benefit of someone else". The speaker is asking the person he's speaking to to give a lecture to other people. The basic grammar is:

1) 私は (yのために) xを して やる。

This means, "I'll do x for the benefit of person y".

2) 私は 君に xを して ほしい。

This means, "I want you to do x".

When you combine (1) and (2), you get:

3) 私は 君に (yのために) xを して やって ほしい。

Which means, "I want you to do x for the benefit of y", and is the grammatical structure used in the line of dialogue from the game.

HTH
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Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2010, 09:30:32 pm »
The なる you'll usually see is "to become". -た or -った (depending on the verb ending) indicates past tense.

So yeah, you worked out the right verb from the conjugation; you just got the wrong homonym of it (and the actual meaning of said conjugation). "Became".
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2010, 09:44:07 pm »
Merci Paul, I'm glad I got the general meaning.

3機とも戦闘不能なった時点

this is the rest of the sentence:
少尉達の負けだ。
Ok, here's my reasoning for this sentence:

At the time the retinue of three Wanzers is incapacipated, that will mean the loss of the sublieutenant.

時点 【じてん】: occasion; point in time
戦闘不能: incapacitated (combat+impossible)
なる 【成る; 為る】: to play a role; to consist of; to become; to attain; to be; to grow; to succeed; to result in; to get; to be promoted (shogi); to change into; to be exchanged for; to reach; to be complete; to be composed of; to prove to be
供 【とも】: companion; retinue; attendant; accompanying

Question1:

What is the function of で there? In Tae Kim's guide it says: It may help to think of 「で」 as meaning "by way of". This way, the same meaning will kind of translate into what the sentence means. The examples will then read: "Saw by way of movie theater", "Go home by way of bus", and "Ate lunch by way of restaurant."

The thing is I don't really see how it would work with 時点 here.

Could it refer to the context?

Question2:

What is the function of に there? There are so many functions for the に particle that I often find myself unsure as to how is meant to be used.
Are there any ways or tips to quickly figure out what is the usage of に in a sentence?

EDIT: thanks Ryusei.

Ryusui

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2010, 09:57:59 pm »
に generally indicates change. Change in location, change in direction, change in state. You shouldn't be thinking of it in terms of "what it means in English" and more in means of "how does it relate the surrounding words or phrases to each other".

空に向け - "Turn towards the sky."
星に行け - "Head for the stars."
神になれ - "Become a god."

I suppose the closest thing in English would be "to".
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Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2010, 11:26:40 pm »
Merci Paul, I'm glad I got the general meaning.

No problem. Glad to help. It's good practice. :)

Quote
3機とも戦闘不能なった時点
少尉達の負けだ。[/size]

Once all three machines have been disabled (for combat), the sublieutenant loses.

3機とも means 'all three machines'.
戦闘不能になる means 'become disabled for combat'.
~時点で means 'once~' or 'at the point in time in which~'.

Quote
Question1:

What is the function of で there? In Tae Kim's guide it says: It may help to think of 「で」 as meaning "by way of". This way, the same meaning will kind of translate into what the sentence means. The examples will then read: "Saw by way of movie theater", "Go home by way of bus", and "Ate lunch by way of restaurant."

The thing is I don't really see how it would work with 時点 here.

で serves a lot of functions. I don't think Tae Kim's definition covers all of them. The way I see it, で is best thought of as being used to mark phrases that indicate not only the means, but also the setting or circumstances for some other action or event. For example:

1) 箸 寿司を 食べた。 (はしで すしを たべた。)
'I ate sushi using chopsticks.'

2) 映画館 映画を 見た。 (えいがかんで えいがを みた。)
'I saw a movie at a movie theater.'

3) 彼は 承知の上で 悪いことを やった らしい。
'It seems he did it knowing it was wrong.'

In (1), chopsticks serve as the means for eating sushi. In (2), the movie theater is the setting for the action of watching the movie. In (3), 彼 did bad things with the setting being that he knew that they were bad.

Anyway, in the dialogue from the game, で marks 時点, which is a moment in time; that moment is the setting in which the event of the sublieutenant losing takes place.

Quote
Question2:

What is the function of に there? There are so many functions for the に particle that I often find myself unsure as to how is meant to be used.
Are there any ways or tips to quickly figure out what is the usage of に in a sentence?

EDIT: thanks Ryusei.

Ryusei said pretty much everything that needs to be said for に, but I'll just add that に contrasts with で in a very crucial way: で indicates a span; に indicates a point. Check out these two sentences, which sum up the core difference in usage between the two particles:

4) 一時 電車が ここに 着く。
'A train will arrive here at (i.e. the point at which it becomes) 1:00.'

5) 一時間 日本語を 勉強 する。
'I'll study Japanese for (i.e. within the span of) one hour.'

HTH
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2010, 08:36:19 am »
Danke to both of you.

Ah well, I'm pleasantly surprised, seems like I got the general meaning once again (although the formulation could use some work but that'll come with practice I'm sure) ;D.

Just to check my understanding of に:

今後の配属も影響する重要な演習だ。[/size]

So に indicates a point in time, which, in this case, is the future assignment 今後の配属. There's a も there as well, which usually means something like "also". But in this case I think it means all of the future assignments.

影響する: to influence or effect. Here it is followed by する which means that the verb is either being done now or in the future (imperfective form). So it should means something like "effects" or "will effect". Since it's talking about future assignments I'll go with will effect.

重要な: -な adjective modifying 演習。

So my translation would be:
Your futures assignments will be influenced by this essential exercise. 

Am I right?


 

RedComet

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2010, 11:24:30 am »
"This (these) important practice(s) will influence assignments from here on, too."

Future assignments/missions will also be affected by the training being undertaken now is what's being said. Someone more experience will probably come by and fine tune this. I'm just translating it for practice and to double check my understanding. :P

EDIT: Also, I don't think you're understanding how subordinate clauses work.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:59:19 pm by RedComet »
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Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 07:51:38 pm »
Danke to both of you.

No problem. :)

Quote
Just to check my understanding of に:

今後の配属も影響する重要な演習だ。[/size]

So に indicates a point in time, which, in this case, is the future assignment 今後の配属.

Close. に doesn't necessarily indicate a point in time; it just indicates a point. The point in this case is 配属, which is the "target" of 影響's influence.

Quote
There's a も there as well, which usually means something like "also". But in this case I think it means all of the future assignments.

Right. It's also possible that not only will future assignments be influenced, but other things as well.

Quote
So my translation would be:
Your futures assignments will be influenced by this essential exercise. 

Am I right?

Yeah, you've basically got it. This sentence is actually one big relative clause that modifies the phrase 演習. You can see this if you slowly build up the sentence starting with 演習.

1) 演習だ。 -> It's an exercise.
2) 重要な 演習だ。 -> It's an important exercise.
3) 影響する 重要な 演習だ。 -> It's an important exercise that will influence (something).
4) 配属にも 影響する 重要な 演習だ。 -> It's an important exercise that will influence all assignments.
5) 今後の 配属にも 影響する 重要な 演習だ。 -> It's an important exercise that will influence all future assignments.

Even though it's a relative clause in Japanese (Japanese likes really long relative clauses for some reason), I think it sounds better as:

This important exercise will affect all (or your) future assignments.

which has no relative clause. :)

HTH
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2010, 11:02:24 am »
すべてが。。。
砂に飲まれてしまった。。。

Quote
Also, I don't think you're understanding how subordinate clauses work.
Oh really? Why is that?

Thank you Paul, I’ve re-read  your message twice and it does explain things really well.
I’ve got a few more translations I’d like some criticism on. Please do nitpick as much as possible as I really want to become good at this.

Girl:
すべてが。。。
砂に飲まれてしまった。。。
Everything… everything has been engulfed by sand…

Boy:
まただ。。。
また世界を救えなかった。。。
It happened again…
We still couldn’t save this world…


それで何度目だろう?
I’m not sure about this one. It’s something about “how many times”… What is the function of だろう there? I’ve seen it quite often before.


Does that sound about right?

Paul Jensen

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2010, 09:46:27 pm »
Thank you Paul, I’ve re-read  your message twice and it does explain things really well.

No problem. I'm a trained linguist, but I hadn't written anything really linguistic-y in a while, so it was a good exercise.

Quote
Girl:
すべてが。。。
砂に飲まれてしまった。。。
Everything… everything has been engulfed by sand…

It's all...
...it's all been swallowed by sand...

("engulf" isn't used in conversation too much, so "swallow" is probably a better alternative.

Quote
Boy:
まただ。。。
また世界を救えなかった。。。
It happened again…
We still couldn’t save this world…


This one sounds OK, but it's hard to know for sure without a little more context.

Quote
それで何度目だろう?
I’m not sure about this one. It’s something about “how many times”… What is the function of だろう there? I’ve seen it quite often before.

How many times does that make now?

IMO, it's best to think of the phrase だろう as a "less certain" version of だ ('is'), kind of like "should be" in English. Speakers use it when expressing something that they're not totally certain about, like when wondering aloud (the case above). Here's another example:

1) なんで今こんなに暗いんだろう? 'Why is it so dark right now?' (said right before a sudden storm)

It's also used when stating that something is probably true.

2) (たぶん) そうだろう。 'That's probably true.'

It's also used as a "request" for a reply from a listener.

3) そういうの、するわけないだろう? 'There's no way I'd do that!'/'Do you really think I'd do that?'
4) それ、もう言ってるだろうが! 'But I already said that, didn't I?!"

There are a lot more, but hopefully this gives you a good idea of how だろう is used.

HTH
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SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2010, 09:47:57 am »
Wonderful explanation, I do understand better now.

Just a quick question this time.

In the following sentences:
やり直そう
I want to repair/fix something (?)

あさ、やり直しましょう
Let's repair it in the morning (?)

What is the function of やり?I thought it could be an inflected form of やる but I doubt it.

According to the dictionary, it means ''spear''.

槍 【やり】: spear; lance (shogi)


But I honestly don't see what it would do in front of 直す, unless it is an expression. I know

i88gerbils

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2010, 11:05:34 am »
Your intuition was correct. やり = やる and not 槍 in this case. Well, I guess you could make a pun with it by making a speaker more casual. But traditionally it would only be 槍 in the case of あさ、やりを直そう

Instead of repair I would say "try again" for やり直す.

SeekerOfPeace

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2010, 12:02:17 pm »
Great, thanks.

Alright, here's what I have so far what my understanding of it:


Girl:
すべてが。。。
砂に飲まれてしまった。。。
Everything… everything has been swallowed by sand…

Boy:
まただ。。。
また世界を救えなかった。。。
It happened again…
We still couldn’t save this world…


それで何度目だろう?
How many times does that make now?

あと何度、こうして
砂に消えるんだろう。。。
And still how many times will it disappear in the sand

姉さん。。。
Sister…
ボク、
もう度れたよ。。。
I... I want to try again...

Note: No idea what the れた stands for there. I assume the final よ is the particle to give more emphasis.


Girl:
そうね。。。
Yes...

でも。。。あきらめちゃだめ
わたしたちが、やらないと。。。
But... Must we really…
Note: I don't understand here. "We" and then が as in "but" I think. Even if I know that やらないと is the negative form of やる I still can't figure it out:

やる 【遣る】: to dispatch (a letter); to perform; to have (eat, drink, smoke); to send; to play (sports, game); to give (to inferiors, animals, etc.); to study; to kill; to despatch; to run or operate (a restaurant); to do; to row (a boat); to have sexual intercourse

I've seen in my dictionary やる (suru) which makes the most sense. Is it the other version of あげる?)


やらなければ、世界は。。。
Note: Same problem as above.

Boy:
えん。。。
Hmm…
そうだね。。。
ボクたちが、やらないと。。。
だけど、本当にできるのかな
この世界を救うなんて。。。
However, is it really possible to save this world…

Note: I'm working on this one (waiting for explanation about やる).

i88gerbils

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Re: Japanese Translation Questions
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2010, 03:31:20 pm »
There is a lot that is implied for each participant in the dialog. That's why there are so many ellipses, and this helps us as readers too.

わたしたちが This comma is more for dialog pausing, and the が gives us reference to the subject (or whatever). Since it's not necessary to always have a subject (the first sentence doesn't, although in English we need to put it there).
やらないと... There's an implied いけない that follows. As for やらない, you are correct, it is negative of やる (遣る) and not やる (to give [a gift to someone beneath your station]). Same 'do' for やらなければ but neg. conditional.

We know what to put in for やる (do, doing) because of 救う. What must the boy and girl take action on (must do)? Save the world.

Here's a different example for やる where you might use another word in English. If we had a third party observer of the boy & girl maybe they'd make the comment (at the end of the dialog when they have their resolve):

この子供達はやる気があるね.

Same やる, but in this case it's really kind of a noun with the 気 attached. Spirit + take action or in other words motivation, gusto, morale, etc...