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Author Topic: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)  (Read 224869 times)

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #100 on: August 11, 2010, 02:48:35 pm »
I wouldn't recommend to use Dr.Wily in a capsule at all. Albert is more the man behind man, who pulls the strings in the shadows for the goal that Zero destroys X.
I would rather recommend to make a dialog between Zero and Thomas.

Zero:" A hologram..."

Dr.Light:" My name is Doctor Thomas Light. I am a scientist of robotics and the creator of X. You must be Zero, aren't you?"

Zero:" That is correct. X has told me about you."

Dr.Light:" So did the information I gathered about you. You have once sacrificed your life for X's sake in his most crucial moment, a deed which I really appreciate."

Zero:" So... why are you here? I thought that humans cannot avoid death."

Dr.Light:"Indeed it is. Even though I am no longer flesh and blood I want to help X beyound my grave, if ever something bad happens to him and the world. The capsule you found is not the only one. There are many others which contains data for new enhancements for X in form of armours. Even though I developed them for X as a security measure, they are compatible with other reploids. You might also be able to use them to a degree.
Now I have a favor to ask."

Zero: "I assume you want me to download the data for X, right?"

Dr.Light:" Yes that is what I want. Before you step in the capsule, listen well what I have to say about the upgrade. (put the armour explaination here). I hope that you and X will put an end to this threat.

Zero:"Thank you doctor."






justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2010, 03:45:58 pm »
I really like that dialogue Thanatos.  It keeps the attitude of Zero and it's just wow.  I love it!

Edit: Only issue now is having Zero's mouth move for the text.  Grr...
Edit 2: And having it load other pieces of dialogue too.  Darn it ><
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Vanya

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2010, 04:05:22 pm »
There are a couple of little things I would change, but otherwise that is well written dialogue. Bravo.

Some suggestions:

Dr.Light:" So did the information I gathered about you. You once sacrificed your life for X in his most crucial moment, a deed   which I dearly appreciate."

And:

Dr.Light:"Indeed it is. Even though I am no longer flesh and blood, I want to help X if ever harm comes to him and to the world. The capsule you found is not the only one. There are many others which contain new enhancement data for X in form ofarmors. Even though I developed them for X, they may becompatible with some reploids. You might also be able to use them to a degree. Now I have a favor to ask."
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 04:52:56 pm by Vanya »

DarknessSavior

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2010, 04:43:28 pm »
Except again, none of this makes sense. Dr. Light died hundreds of years before X was discovered by Dr. Cain in the first game. So there's no way he'd know about Zero's existence.

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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2010, 04:46:52 pm »
Then how does he know him in Megaman X5 :/  Also, Dr. Light died hundreds of years ago as you said.  But there's how many armors for X that he somehow made for him, and there's also a black armor that he made for Zero.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Vanya

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2010, 04:54:31 pm »
It isn't canon, but the dialogue itself provides an explanation as to why Dr.Light knows about Zero.

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2010, 05:21:44 pm »
Dr. Light would work from a lazy standpoint. It is shown that the capsule version of Dr. Light is more than capable of keeping up with current events. So throw in a line about the capsule being equipped with some sort of dynamic data download program (and how it was able to scan Zero) and optimizer originally fitted for overseeing the diagnostics program X was put through for 30 years in his capsule and a how the capsules are able to craft parts needed to ensure X was be able to reach Dr. Lights ideal parameters but these parts can also be crafted for any robot scanned into the capsule. Basically, making too much crap up.

From a logical standpoint the best choice would be Dr. Cain as he was the one who uncovered X. He used X's data to create the Reploids (some of which become Maveriks, might be a good way to explain the optional capsule parts being limited to one installed prior to the "golden" upgrade) so it's fair to say he could diagnose Zero and derive some upgrades for him.

Dr. Wily would make a good second choice. During Zero's creation Dr. Wily talked with Zero and tried to instill in him the urge to kill, the program parameters which later create the Sigma Virus, and also at one point traveled through time. You could invent again that the capsule isn't a hologram but a real-time link to the past Wily that is displeased with how Zero is coming along. Though, why Zero would then choose to upgrade himself using Wily tech I'm not sure. Might be neat to have each upgrade have some downside until the optional capsules are used. Then remove one downside and the golden capsule removes them all. Make the optional and golden capsules Dr. Cain, or even Dr. Light. ^_^

Lot's of room to get creative.
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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2010, 05:25:26 pm »
It's the most logical explanation by far with that dialogue.  The point of "Dr. Light died xxxxx years ago" doesn't really do anything considering Dr. Light AND Zero had a conversation in Megaman X5 or X6 was it?  So providing an explanation in X3 would kind of tie it better with the future games.

I do want to maybe make it Dr. Cain though as for it to make more sense, but it ties much better in future games if Dr. Light is the possible choice.  There's a lot of interesting ways to go with this as blacksniper said.  So maybe discuss the best ideal way of going and go from there.  The dialogue so far with Dr. Light is absolutely fantastic from what I see and I don't want to let that go to waste but things will change depending on what makes the most logical point.

There's also the issue with Dr. Cain being the one in the capsule because we'd have to make different animations and recompress sprites which we still cannot do successfully yet.  So things are a little tight right now on who we can use until we're able to successfully decompress X3 and recompress them back in without error.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2010, 05:46:33 pm »
As much as things are obscure, I think the missing link in these factors lies not in the X series but prior to it.
We don't really know how it went, but who is to say for example that classic Mega Man
didn't get a chance to check Wily's lab during or after his many defeats and saw blueprints for Zero, maybe even copied them to an extent
and brought them to Light's knowledge?

In Mega Man The Power Fighters, Bass' ending clearly foreshadows the creation of Zero
(and loosely, one could tie MMPF prior to the events of MM8). Now, considering how Bass became increasingly the anti-hero with his
increased appearances (even counting MM10 since its where the classics stand now) and also taking into account that Bass
dislikes Wily with a passion, its not impossible he'd betray his master by divulging blueprints on Zero to light just for self satisfaction
or even as an assurance to his own survival (know thy enemy) given that Zero's capabilities are far beyond any other robot, sans
X himself that was also in a manufacturing stage)

I feel that since Capcom created a lot of holes, we are at liberty of filling them to the best of our ability, with educated guesses and
careful threading as to not contradict what is already established.

slidelljohn

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2010, 10:09:11 pm »
Except again, none of this makes sense. Dr. Light died hundreds of years before X was discovered by Dr. Cain in the first game. So there's no way he'd know about Zero's existence.

~DS

DS,you seem to know a lot about mmx.Maybe you can write some good script for us.   ?

DarknessSavior

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2010, 10:13:38 pm »
Except again, none of this makes sense. Dr. Light died hundreds of years before X was discovered by Dr. Cain in the first game. So there's no way he'd know about Zero's existence.

~DS

DS,you seem to know a lot about mmx.Maybe you can write some good script for us.   ?
I'm only really familiar with the first three. I've played all of them up to X6, but I don't remember the PSX story much.

~DS
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metallicat65

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2010, 10:16:21 pm »
This won't work either because it doesn't explain why Zero hasn't gotten armor before now.  If his blueprints have already been acquired, then why doesn't Dr. Light have armor for him in MMX1.  Good explanation (I like the idea with Bass), but it doesn't cover everything completely. 

I propose that the capsules are part of an AI system that Dr. Light developed so he could upload his...mind...so to speak (hey...if he could make robots that think for themselves, then he could do this) and other stuff like experiment notes and such.  Basically you got an AI driven Light that can observe and analyze current events.  This can also be used as something Light wanted to created to watch X to make sure he doesn't turn bad.  This AI doesn't give Zero armor before now because it's not sure of Zero's intentions (Zero potentially kills Light, Roll, Megaman...etc).  For all the AI knows...Zero could still be bad.  Anyways, this would also explain the conversation in X5 or X6 (I can't remember either) and the black armor as well (I actually read this part of my idea from a website that was trying to explain the events between Light and Zero.  Can't remember the site though).

As far as developing Zero armor now...maybe AI Light goes through a bunch of experiment notes and finds something that Wiley brought up before Megaman was made (but after Protoman probably).  Wiley brings up the idea of making robots that can think for themselves along with early sketches of Zero...Light claims that it's too dangerous because humans may be in danger...but...this conversation and notes get recorded by Light which later gets uploaded into the AI.  This also puts an interesting twist on things because Wiley actually comes up with the idea of self-thinking robots, not Dr. Light.  This also allows for both projects (X and Zero) to be simultaneously worked on without any collaboration between the scientists.

I know there's got to be a shit ton of ideas out there...I mean...I know everybody that has made a post about this project has thought about the aggravating links and ties between Megaman series.  I mean...between all of us...we should be able to come up with some bad ass story line for justin3009!  And whoever else is working on the project
"Now let it work.  Mischief, thou art afoot.  Take thou what coarse thou wilt."

--Mark Antony, Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2010, 10:33:07 pm »
I see your point, metallicat 65, but just as an addendum to my own theory, Light having the blueprints doesn't ensure Light was able to figure them out well enough to develop armor
(Zero's system couldn't be really figured out at all by anyone, even some 200 years later). Black Zero is more like a system wide upgrade to me at best, it was probably the best
Light could do, canonically speaking with little or no knowledge of Zero's internal system. That to me explains why Black Zero is only obtainable via capsule in X5.

Plus if we trace back to X2, the "fake Zero" was already black so it could be an indication that this power up specification already existed internally to Zero, and
its not really otherwise (in X4 and X6 black Zero needs to be enabled via code).
Also to add, Zero's power source is widely regarded to be an alien power source superior to Bass's Bassinum core, so I doubt Zero's data would be as early
as somewhere after Protoman's development.

I like your AI ideas though, let's keep digging everyone.

Red X

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2010, 10:41:50 pm »
This won't work either because it doesn't explain why Zero hasn't gotten armor before now.  If his blueprints have already been acquired, then why doesn't Dr. Light have armor for him in MMX1.  Good explanation (I like the idea with Bass), but it doesn't cover everything completely. 

I propose that the capsules are part of an AI system that Dr. Light developed so he could upload his...mind...so to speak (hey...if he could make robots that think for themselves, then he could do this) and other stuff like experiment notes and such.  Basically you got an AI driven Light that can observe and analyze current events.  This can also be used as something Light wanted to created to watch X to make sure he doesn't turn bad.  This AI doesn't give Zero armor before now because it's not sure of Zero's intentions (Zero potentially kills Light, Roll, Megaman...etc).  For all the AI knows...Zero could still be bad.  Anyways, this would also explain the conversation in X5 or X6 (I can't remember either) and the black armor as well (I actually read this part of my idea from a website that was trying to explain the events between Light and Zero.  Can't remember the site though).

As far as developing Zero armor now...maybe AI Light goes through a bunch of experiment notes and finds something that Wiley brought up before Megaman was made (but after Protoman probably).  Wiley brings up the idea of making robots that can think for themselves along with early sketches of Zero...Light claims that it's too dangerous because humans may be in danger...but...this conversation and notes get recorded by Light which later gets uploaded into the AI.  This also puts an interesting twist on things because Wiley actually comes up with the idea of self-thinking robots, not Dr. Light.  This also allows for both projects (X and Zero) to be simultaneously worked on without any collaboration between the scientists.

I know there's got to be a shit ton of ideas out there...I mean...I know everybody that has made a post about this project has thought about the aggravating links and ties between Megaman series.  I mean...between all of us...we should be able to come up with some bad ass story line for justin3009!  And whoever else is working on the project
There actually is a good explanation as to why zero couldn't be given any armor before the 3rd game. In MMX1 Dr Light couldn't have been sure of Zero's intentions because before MMX1 starts zero was a maverick that tried to kill sigma before sigma was corrupted as seen in MMX4. However, after he sacrifices himself to save X it is pretty clear to Dr. Light that Zero is a good guy. In the 2nd game, Zero doesn't reappear until the end of the game, so there wasn't an opportunity for Dr. Light to help him. MMX3 is actually the first game to give Dr. Light the opportunity to give Zero some armor. I think it would be best to have Dr Light give Zero the armors in this hack. You could simply have him say that he has made armor for him because he is grateful to him for what he did to save X in the first game.

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #114 on: August 11, 2010, 10:55:30 pm »
You threw in a good idea there, Red X, I guess Justin3009 might like it.

justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #115 on: August 11, 2010, 11:09:51 pm »
I've liked each individual idea on here so far.  They're pretty well explained and help more with the story. I'm really anxious to actually put one of these in ASAP for a test run, but I'll need to do a little bit of event hacking first to test it.

Also on an unrelated note to the capsules, I got a slightly beta feature working that I think people may like.  For a test, I replaced Zero's animation code for double jump to load his teleport out sequence, but that broke when I was testing something.  But by changing how the code works, I was able to have Zero switch with X without going to the menu.  So it maybe possible to add in a system where you can switch characters by pressing select during gameplay, but I'm not entirely sure how to make that a global command.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

metallicat65

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #116 on: August 11, 2010, 11:26:21 pm »
Also to add, Zero's power source is widely regarded to be an alien power source superior to Bass's Bassinum core, so I doubt Zero's data would be as early
as somewhere after Protoman's development.

Ahhhhh yes...that puts a dent in my little idea. Man, I really liked it too. I remembered he found something better than Bassinum...I couldn't remember the details clearly though.

Yes, it would also as an addition to your idea as well.

There actually is a good explanation as to why zero couldn't be given any armor before the 3rd game. In MMX1 Dr Light couldn't have been sure of Zero's intentions because before MMX1 starts zero was a maverick that tried to kill sigma before sigma was corrupted as seen in MMX4. However, after he sacrifices himself to save X it is pretty clear to Dr. Light that Zero is a good guy. In the 2nd game, Zero doesn't reappear until the end of the game, so there wasn't an opportunity for Dr. Light to help him. MMX3 is actually the first game to give Dr. Light the opportunity to give Zero some armor. I think it would be best to have Dr Light give Zero the armors in this hack. You could simply have him say that he has made armor for him because he is grateful to him for what he did to save X in the first game.

Yes, I see what you mean. If you use the point of Lights unsure intentions of Zero in MMX1 like I said previously, then you might as well just use your justification here instead (much simpler too)
"Now let it work.  Mischief, thou art afoot.  Take thou what coarse thou wilt."

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Vanya

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #117 on: August 11, 2010, 11:30:32 pm »
Here's a good resource for you guys to reference:
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

There's a ton of info on the series, and IIRC they only post facts that have been presented in the various incarnations of the franchise including non-videogame media. They don't seem to go into conjecture at all.

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2010, 11:32:57 pm »
I've liked each individual idea on here so far.  They're pretty well explained and help more with the story. I'm really anxious to actually put one of these in ASAP for a test run, but I'll need to do a little bit of event hacking first to test it.

Also on an unrelated note to the capsules, I got a slightly beta feature working that I think people may like.  For a test, I replaced Zero's animation code for double jump to load his teleport out sequence, but that broke when I was testing something.  But by changing how the code works, I was able to have Zero switch with X without going to the menu.  So it maybe possible to add in a system where you can switch characters by pressing select during gameplay, but I'm not entirely sure how to make that a global command.

Personally, I think the hack would be made even more interesting if X could be removed entirely
(provided Zero can be given enough mobility to match X's Giga armor and reach places for Heart and Sub Tanks and such with the same ease)
I mean, the original game centers almost 100% around X already, even to the point, Zero gives him his saber as an added charge level so X fans can just play the original game right?

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #119 on: August 12, 2010, 09:17:43 am »
Actually it's pretty well established why Zero wouldn't have been around in X1 to obtain the armor upgrades. Immediately after the Intro level X and Zero split up. Zero tells X that while X is hunting down the mavericks he would be scouting Sigma's HQ for information. They then meet up only once more before Zero is blown to bits. In X2 Zero is a scrap heap until the very absolute final scenes in the game. Again, this is why Dr. Cain makes the perfect choice for the capsules... as Dr. Cain was the one who rebuilt Zero. On that note, however, Zero himself (as I recall) says to X he is still not fully functional and that is used as an explanation as to why he gets just 1 life.

Might be best to set the game in an alternate universe, one where Dr. Cain learned from his mistakes with the reploids, but was already fired from the company producing them (to explain why there still are mavericks), and is thus better able to figure Zero out. I still really do not like the idea of Light giving him armor upgrades. The capsules made by Dr. Light were made purely to oversee 30 year boot-up, and debugging sequence X had to undergo before being activated, as Dr. Light was afraid that X would run wild and do harm to humans as he was the first robot that did not have to follow the three rules of robotics.

It makes sense that Dr. Light built into those capsules a way to modify X on the fly or even had already produced his upgrades with the intent on slowly giving them to X as he proves his worth to humanity. I know if I made a robot that might go on a killing spree and take out a city I wouldn't fit him with his best armor and weapons right out the gate. Although should you do decide to use Dr. Light here's what I came up with.

DR.LIGHT - What's this? You are not X, this shouldn't have happened. A malfunction maybe?
ZERO - Your face, it seems almost familiar somehow... I kno--
DR.LIGHT - !!! Oh dear, that signature, you finally managed it... Wily. Did you ever learn, I wonder.
ZERO - You know me?
DR.LIGHT - Oh, yes, almost certainly. It seems like you've had a rough life. Fractures on the casing, poor soldering, even a mixing of alloys. I wonder what you've been through. But I'm getting ahead of myself, tell me, have you encountered a robot named X?
ZERO - You know X too!? Who are you!? Tell me now!
DR.LIGHT - Yes, that seems about right. That anger seems forced though, never learned after all Wily?
ZERO - Wily? You keep saying that. Who are you!? Who is Wily!? If you are trying to harm X I won't allow it!
DR.LIGHT - Do not worry, uh...
ZERO - Zero.
DR.LIGHT- Zero. I am Dr. Light. I created X. I'm starting to get the picture. Ah, and just in time.
ZERO - You CREATED X? gah.... my head, it... who. Wily?
DR.LIGHT - Oh dear... Zero, pay attention. I've scanned your systems and I can see a lot of room for improvement. I can repair you to full functionality, if you would do me but one favor.
ZERO - ...
DR.LIGHT - Keep watch over X. I'll tell you more about yourself in return, or at least all that I can.
ZERO - ... I promise.
DR.LIGHT - Fantastic! [insert upgrade 1 here]

It's a rough idea so far, but basically I see that as a way for Light to ensure that Zero is more stable and under his control. When Light scans Zero he sees something in him, a signature design piece that all of Wily's creations have had in the past but at the same time his programming is like X's. It has free will. This also builds up the foundation for Zero's dreams about Wily. I don't think Wily would trust Zero totally though, and what information Zero in check. To possibly even paint Wily as a hero to allow Zero to act more noble. It's a work in progress, hopefully you can use Dr. Cain.
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