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Messages - RodMerida

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but what happens to the party system in DQ4 for NDS?

I think the proposal of Star Ocean that the_grobe made me sounds more interesting. At least, with DQ4 I don't know what you mean.

By the way, why DQ4 for NDS and not for PSX? What's the difference?

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: January 24, 2022, 05:53:47 pm »
Do you have another project related to dragon quest in mind? In case you dont would you accept a suggestion?

Yes, I accept it.
I'm listening.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: January 24, 2022, 01:30:25 am »
He has done us fans a great service in giving us a bugfixed English patch for this game after so long.  That was the scope of his project here.  Nothing else.  Changing DQ Translations' English script was not in his project scope.

Right, I think you have caught the essence of this matter.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: January 22, 2022, 05:21:41 am »
yo this line is WILD

I like it very much. I don't see the problem. Those sentences are very funny, and very much in the line of Akira Toriyama, with his typical humour.

Quote from: Ether
Beautiful work as always, and an incredible philosophy and commitment to the work done before you. You have my highest respect.
Thank you, friend, for considering it that way. I don't intend another thing with all this than facilitating people playing these gems of computing history, and preserving them, with all the previous and worthy work related with them.

After having been meditating I have reached the conviction that names regarding Arthuric legends belong to pan-European and specially Latin tradition, too, and there is no reason to re-translate those names of places. The editorial respect to the historical form of this US ROM gets imposed in this patch, as a consequence.

About the other matter, I think if a game's plot is well constructed these kind of elements that you mention must be coherent. Just sometimes creators don't care so much. Final Fantasy XI is an online massive game: I think they didn't effort so much in the plot because you can play however and go however without a fixed order. Probably in different server updates of it they have gone on adding things, as it happens in Dragon Quest X, that is online too.

Danuffo. You have not understood anything. I didn't make a translation to old Castilian, but to modern Spanish with a little of archaic style and resemblance, it's very different.

So this that you say is a nonsense:
Trying to emulate the archaic forms of any language it's a nice excentric touch but it's not always practical because the translation will lose its own purpose to be understandable.

In the case of spanish, the real archaic spanish (seven centuries ago) looks like another language, it has some characters such as ç and ê that are totally unused and unknown.

It's impossible to make a translation of something modern to the kind of "Spanish" talked in the Middle Ages (that was not Spanish because it was not spoken in the whole of Spain, that didn't even exist like an unified political entity, there were different kingdoms, like Castile, Aragon, Navarra, Valencia, Leon, Moorish kingdoms in the south) because whatever is written nowadays, uses too many new words that in those times just simply didn't have an equivalent term in vulgar Romance languages, since they had not had much literary development, and due to that, they had not developped an abstract vocabulary, like Latin, Arabic or Hebrew. That's the reason because of when people wanted to speak these kinds of educated things in Middle Ages they used Latin, with a much more sophisticated vocabulary and syntax. And in the Moorish Kingdoms, like Zaragoza, Valencia, Toledo, Sevilla, Granada, they used Classic Arabic; Jews used Hebrew or Arabic.

So that's why nobody here is intending to translate anything to Old Castilian. Even if you tried you would lack many words and would need to copy them either from Latin or from modern Spanish, and the result wouldn't be the same style of speech people would have used in those times in a vulgar Romanic language.

But in case you really want to see how it would be a modern translation from another language to Old Castilian, you just have to see my translation of the old inscription in Final Fantasy VI, translated to Spanish by Traducciones Mérida / Crackowia. In a moment of the game your party finds an ancient inscription recorded 1000 years ago with old glyphs at the back of three idols, and Locke manages to read it. Since the original was written in Middle Japanese, an archaic version of Japanese language used in Middle Ages and Renaissence, I decided to translate that by immitating the style of speech of Old Castilian.

I copy here exactly how I translated it, so you get a clue (I warn it's not 100% Old Castilian, but a slight version of Old Castilian with more Latin vocabulary, for Major understability by majority of modern speakers):

El nasçimiento de la magia.
III dyosas fueron proscriptas aquy.
Con el tiempo començaron las sus disputas, lo que leuó a vna guerra ssyn quartel.
Aquellos desuenturados omnes que cruzáronse en so camyno tornados fueron en Espers, e gelos empleó cuemo máchinas bjvientes de guerra.

Finalmientre, quando comprehendieron estas dyosas que estauan seyendo obieto de burla de quienes aquy avíen las proscrito, detovieron en un ynstante de lvcidez sus rençiellas, en se transformando a sy mesmas en piedra.

Los Espers fizieron aquestas estatuillas a guisa de symbolo del so iuramento de dexar a las diosas en paz dormir et folgar.
Los Espers iurado han vigilar que nadi non avuse del poder de aquestas diosas.

¿A que lo has entendido?

P.S.: By the way, that ê symbol is not from Old Castilian, but from the written Spanish used during 18th century as a way to difference when X was pronounced like KS and when it was pronounced like KH, like modern Spanish J. If X was pronounced KS they put a circumflex ^ over the next or previous vowel, if X was pronounced KH, like J letter, no ^ was used. Ex.: Exâmen [exam] vs. dixo [said]. But at the end of 18th century the use of X like KH was abolished by the Royal Academy of Spanish Language, and since then ^ circumflex is not anymore used

(Translation below of this last part to make sure you don't misunderstand it:)
P.D.: Por cierto, no hay ningún símbolo ê en castellano antiguo. El acento circunflejo sólo se usa en el siglo XVIII (en que se hablaba un español moderno de la Ilustración muy formado, posterior al Quijote y la literatura barroca, muy parecido al actual). Esto sucedió tras la implantación de la RAE, antes de que ésta desechase el diferenciar entre X y J para el sonido jota. Este circunflejo era una forma de diferenciar aquellas palabras en las que X tenía sonido KS, de aquellas en que X tenía sonido de jota, como sigue pasando hoy por conservadurismo gráfico en algunos pocos nombres como México, Texas, Oaxaca o Ximénez. Así, se escribía exâmen o taxônomía frente a dixo, roxo y traxo. Pero a finales del siglo XVIII la RAE desecha la X con valor de jota, salvo en algunos nombres y apellidos por arcaísmo gráfico, y al hacerlo, desecha también el circunflejo, que no se llegó a utilizar un siglo completo, y que desde entonces ya no se usa en nuestra lengua escrita. Nunca se utilizó en castellano medieval, entre otras cosas porque en esa época ni siquiera se utilizaban los acentos normales, que no comienzan a aparecer como manera de desambiguar palabras (sin una regla de acentuación fija) hasta el renacimiento.

Completely agree with you in that last paragraph. But notice that in DW3 still there is some archaic language, but less, because the kind of society is less feudal than in DQ1 and 2. There seems to be more trade and communications thanks to portals, kingdoms are better defended, towns or cities seem to be more prosperous, or for example, there is the discovery of the Americas already, even though the action happens centuries before DW1 and 2. It sort of seems as if after the world of DW1 and 2 became isolated from the world of DW3, there was a dark age, with some "social regression", more into feudalism.

And about the second paragraph, it's very interesting, I like it, it's a philological challenge. But it seems to be a linguistic experiment. It's better not to experiment that much with this translation of a classic; but if I finally managed to find the right names (in the case of Spanish language the names of the castle could be from Amadís de Gaula) I would include it as an extra optional patch.

Anyway, notice that King Arthur is also part of Latin tradition, cause it started in Roman literature, there are lots of chronicles and writings about King Arthur written in Latin. Actually, King Arthur was originally britanno-Roman, before being "celtized" or "anglosaxonized". So that Tintagel castle may be as part of the literary Spanish tradition as from the British one, it's Internacional, at least in Europe. Same as Troy legends (or history, there is a slight frontair among both). You wouldn't say the story of Troy is just Greek, would you?

Actually, many of those names in Arthuric literature have their Spanish equivalents: King Arthur is El Rey Arturo, Lancelot is Lanzarote, etc. And one Castilianized form of Tintagel could be Trevena (from Cornish language Tre war Venydh). Actually it is first mentioned in a book written in Latin during the XII century: Historia Regum Britanniæ (History of British Kings), by the Welsh historian Geoffrey of Monmouth.

It's a good excuse for them to get "updated" in archaic variants of their own language or linguistic branch.

Yes, all the contrary: it's good to know my essayist initiative inspired others to make their translation works to other languages without so many retro translations be promoted. I hope your initiative also inspire others and make the number of works in your language be increased.

Maybe we might even see one day a translation of this ROM to Javanese and those kind of things, with almost no ROMhacks!, who knows.

I want to hail the creator of this translation for his great contribution to Malaysian/Indonesian, his native language!, which is a great philological contribution, too. Released, besides, just one week after my release of a translation for this ROM to Spanish! I'm sure your work will make this old ROM accessible to many inhabitants from the enormous Indonesian archipielago (that actually comprehend two insular Republics!).

Indonesian speakers are lucky today!

Very well documented, by the way, those differences among Japanese and English-speaking version in this article of yours.

The problem, Erdrick, is that they never use "You" for singular at all in this game, unlike they do do in Dragon Warrior III for NES. I believe this was due to having a very stereotyped concept of archaic English. So they don't difference among courtesy and informal situations, as they would do in any work of Shakespeare, for example (if we go to works written in actual Middle Age they'll probably be written in Anglosaxon or French, if not Latin).

But I translate their intention of using archaic pronouns in this way. I'm very aware of that difference among archaic Thou and singular You/Ye, anyway.

Regarding the use or not of infinitive in all the commands, I decided to switch to imperative for "OPEN" verb (ABRE), to leave a little of gap among the central lines of the window and its right margin; I could have used ABRIR as well, but it produced me claustrophobia; anyway, it seems he is ordering the door to be open, in a shortened, quick way. And for ACCEDE, that one was really difficult and complex to translate, and I prefered it that way instead widening more the window and making it too different from its original form, and much bigger, covering more screen surface. I could have used CRUZAR instead, but it was much less intuitive.

Names of people and locations are names, not words. Names are not translatable, or should not be translated, except when they refere to names of kings, dinasties, and other historical characters of much relevance that have produced a Castilianized form, like in Henry IV = Enrique IV, Marie-Antoniette = María Antonieta, Jeshua = Jesús, Muhammad = Mahoma, Cristophe Colombus = Cristóbal Colón, etc.

Making up new names here just because Enix did so for the American version, in 1989, makes no sense here, because they won't be official, but just my invention; they won't be recognizable nor very accepted by the community, that they do know their official counterparts for either Japanese, English or both versions, that constantly reappear in fandom webpages and official printed guides. And also because that was a historical oficial version that has got a major relevance worldwide, result of a historical decision. Many people have grown with these names in many countries since decades ago, even Hispanic ones, through emulation, but not with my names, because I'm making this translation in 2021/2022, that is 32 years later, let's remind it, when NES system is discontinued and not so played as before; it's more treated like a nostalgia matter or an antique.

If you refere to finding an equivalent for those names that do refere to historical names, by distorting them: how do you know the place I'm finding instead is actually equivalent? Just imagine the laughs if instead Tantegel I wrote "el Palacio de la Cerzuela", or some other nonsense equivalent.

Doing what you say exceeded my capabilities and patience in that moment and I didn't consider it necessary at all, since that "(a)" is acceptable in those cases.
It doesn't mangle the grammar. In something like battle messages or menu actions it's very normal.

But what you say could be an interesting improvement for my translation of Dragon Quest 3 for SNES to Spanish, where the hero can be male or female. But it'd be harder to implement, since it could replace a special symbol by either o or a, yes, but it would need to check the sex not only of the hero, but of whatever character in your group the message is addressing, and sometimes that o/a symbol refers to monster names too, that are far much more than in DQ1 for NES, what would add complexity.

At the end, for not messing more, I solved it with that o/a (that is standard in such case) trying to use synonymouses that don't require it in as many sentences of that kind as possible, so there are not so many o/a all the time, actually there are few, maybe in 15 sentences for the whole game, that is much longer.

Anyway, if you really knew how to do this for DQ3 for SNES and want to advice, send me a query, please.

There is no way this NES program can know the gender of a monster without making a list of genders.
It's not only programming the appearing or not of an "a" plus space before the name if it starts or ends with a letter or another, Dwedit.

And besides, it's not neccesary. The Royal Academy of Spanish Language considers correct the use of "/" or brackets for optional terminations, for either plural or gender mark, in those cases where you are not able to know in Advance if a certain addressee is singular or plural, or masculine or femenine, but you are refering to a certain addressee that you will know, and if you use generic masculine you will make a grammar mistake in case it happens to be feminine.

Let's not confuse this with talking in general, like in "todo ciudadano deberá..." (every citizen will have to...), or talking about mixed groups of things or people ("escuchad alumnos" = "listen up, students", or "los pantalones y las camisas están baratos" = "pants are shirts are cheap"), in which case you use generic masculine, no need to add os/as.

The use of archaic Spanish forms makes this for myself :)

Gracias to the people involved in this project!  Lo estaré probando en los siguientes días. :thumbsup:

You are welcome, Mikepardo30, ¡de nada! Thanks you for appreciating this. Dale una buena probada a ver qué se cuece.

While I do not speak Spanish, I do congratulate the effort put into this translation.

Thank you too for appreciating the translation and ROMhacking effort devoted to the creation of this patch, even though not understanding Spanish at all (and even though it was done quick)!

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Super street fighter 2 Genesis - PAL version
« on: December 31, 2021, 07:05:59 am »
#2 is probably somewhat more doable but it is surely not a "change one byte and everything suddenly works" operation.

Completely agree with you.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 30, 2021, 05:17:29 pm »
but I wanted to say thanks for doing this.

Welcome, man.

Zarkon: I think that text, and those answers are completely normal and make much sense.
She is saying why you were looking at her and she could have been raped. It's very normal. I don't see anything wrong with that.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 30, 2021, 12:47:32 am »
Does it have modern spell names?

I have not touched nor modified any single dot from the enemy names system, nor from the names of items. I have 100% respected the work done by DQTranslations in whatever were not bugs. My purpose with this was to restore and preserve their translation, as if we were restoring a Rembrandt, or a Velázquez. I have no right to alter anything. My mission here is just to bugfix what didn't work properly. So that's the task I've accomplished, as proffessionally as my strengths have allowed me.

Notice that DQTranslations just translated the Japanese enemy and item names they encountered, occassionally comparing them, in case of doubt, with some names used in the Game Boy version (that is based on the SNES version of DQ3) as a matter of reference, but not copying them: the enemy names in Game Boy are much shorter than the ones in here, they're abnormally shortened. But the personality names besides being a direct translation from Japanese SNES variant, seem to be pretty based on Game Boy solutions.

Notice that when we play the Japanese ROM of Dragon Quest 3 for SNES made in 1996, we actually want to know how the enemy names were in those times, and in such version. We don't just want to make a copy-paste of modern reinventions. Nor we want to copy-paste silly puns and accents everywhere.

If "the monkey was pinky", the monkey will be pinky. It won't be me who'll change it to red or purple, just 'cause it's "cool, man".

And I get "were you watching me sleep" up until the "got ship" flag, then the woman talks about something else entirely:

Because when you get the ship flag it's related with a sad love side story that ends bad, and that's why she starts talking about how that other boy eloped with an elven girl, a similar sad story that ends bad very related with the last events occurred in that village. It makes much sense.

I think that "raped" thing was said before that change, as a possible answer, wasn't it?

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 29, 2021, 05:32:55 pm »
Rod, I wonder if you can help with something.

In the DQT translation, after you get the dream ruby and then wake everyone in Noaniels, normally you get this when talking to the woman in the inn:

(See images) [...]

Which does not fit dragon quest at all, I wonder if it was something from DQT's beta that somehow was left in and is still accessible depending on flags.  Do you know if this text is still in your version?  Did you come across it while bug-fixing?

I remember to have translated all those sentences to Spanish. I think some of them are variants that happen in different moments of the game. I believe they are part of DQ3, not something added just for fun.

And yes, they are in my version of the English-patched ROM, since I have not touched them, Zarkon.

I'll try it after some time, i remember ppl reported a few things that were turned into bugfixes later

Some bugs are really difficult to figure out why they happen and require many days of research. Usually it occurs that the more you learn about ROMhacking and SNES assembly, the more capable you become to debug such complexities. Time and persistance puts everything in its place. The fruit will fall from the tree when it's mature.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 29, 2021, 09:42:10 am »
Welcome, Zarkon.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 29, 2021, 05:07:15 am »
And even on Christmas day! (I'll let this one slide a bit for being a tad late. :))
Papa Noël has arrived!

Well, we could say the actual date of release was three days later, because I had to test it a little; but the big thing was done on 25th.

Your previous Dragon Quest I&II bugfix work was really fantastic, so this one will be just as great too I'm sure.

Thanks again Rod, and I hope you have a great New Year.

Thanks for seeing it that way.
I hope the same for you too!

ROM Hacking Discussion / Dragon Quest 3 (SNES) English bugfix
« on: December 29, 2021, 01:14:13 am »
Hello, my friends! How are you?
I decided, at the end, to take an evening for gathering and reminding the bug fixes I made for my Spanish translation of Dragon Quest 3 for Super Nintendo, and to copy them to the English-patched ROM. After a little of testing and checking to make sure everything works and shows how it would be intended to be, here you have it!:
Or in Crackowia team's webpage too:

Consider this my Christmas gift to the English-speaking community (I did it during 25th December)!
I hope you like it!

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