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Messages - BRPXQZME

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Script Help and Language Discussion / Re: Translator Survey
« on: April 29, 2011, 01:58:09 am »
Do you use a translation memory (TM) when translating? (Y/N) Yes, it’s called OmegaT.

1. 1, the way I do it. I don’t use anyone else’s translations, so all it involves is to start typing.

2. 1, because again, the way I do it, you may not even realize you’re using one at first. You just sort of... start translating things and suddenly you notice the fuzzy matcher is showing lines you have previously entered.

3. $0.00, in U.S. moneys.

4. 3. I’m never all that satisfied with Java applications, but I mean, I don’t exactly pay out the nose to use it. Also, I’m not that picky, either, because I don’t translate professionally (and probably never will) and I am perennially broke-ass anyway.

5. I couldn’t say; it only applies to large, cohesive projects rather than any spot translations I do.

6. Fuzzy matching. In several projects, I have had story branches where wordings change ever so slightly; having these at a glance no matter what line I go to is awesome.

7. The speed at which things run. Between Java, and going through so much text after a while, things can slow down to an annoying pace.

8. This question doesn’t really mean anything to me.

13. I haven’t made a single dollar from translat—*checks unnamed ad service* I have made less than a dollar from translating and I haven’t seen it yet.

14. 3~4-ish, though it really depends on the arena.

15. Stay out of the way when I don’t need it, be right there when I do. Until computers can read minds like they do on Star Trek, that means the TM bits should be easy-access yet not hogging all the screen space.

16. I don’t see why not, though I imagine a fair number of my contributions would be painful to read or highly unconventional.

Personal Projects / Re: Final Fantasy VII NES Enemy Graphics
« on: April 27, 2011, 05:44:01 pm »
You couldn’t contact most of those people if you wanted to, since the contributions were largely anonymous.

TM = Translation memory
MT = Machine translation

I did not wish to insult your intelligence by being unsubtle, but I think you are getting the two confused whenever I mention these separately. It is kind of clear from reading your site that you are much more experienced at the Japanese language than I am, so I kind of suspected this translation dealy is a thing you do.

These technologies are very different in application. TM is not at all equivalent to MT (and I guess MT as a job prereq would go in the field of computer science or something rather than linguistics!). Now, it’s not that MT+postedit for serious work doesn’t exist, but it’s not exactly a big player.

At any rate, though, I’m not kidding about pros using MT in a limited capacity. It’s not so much incorporating MT into a real translation—in fact, it isn’t at all. It’s more like kaizen applied to particular workflows.

It's true that mistakes can be made by anyone, but screwing up someting like a Star Wars reference is a lot different from screwing up names and story lines. A human mistake is just that, a mistake, something unintentional. when a machine makes a mistake, it's not really a mistake but is infact what the machine "thinks" is right, and will provide the same mistranslation every time.
It won’t actually! Given a system that doesn’t learn, okay, but most MT solutions are under constant development. Give Google Translate a passage that it has trouble with. In a few weeks’ time, that passage will have a different wrong translation. The machine is never deluded into thinking it is right; that’s not how AI works. Actually, it is always coming up with something it considers “okay”. Such a suspiciously nondeterministic-sounding approach may sound imprecise, but it’s a good enough approach to fix problems with space probes that are too far away to make contact with Earth at the speed of light, and it’s good enough to make the U.S. Army logistics more efficient than any human can manage.

A TM system, on the other hand... garbage in, garbage out. The translations in a TM are typically human-supplied, so anything erroneous is also human-supplied. My own TM has only my errors in it, if it has any (and only contains text from the very same project, for that matter).

People that are incompetent tend to not just use but depend on translation software, so when both sides of the coin are useless it doesn't matter if it lands on heads or tails. Personally I don't like the whole conept of online translators and memory translation, but if you can find a way to use them safely and for something like video game fan translations, I guess there is no harm.
The thing is, a lot of really professional and competent text translators use these technologies all the time—you could say they depend on them, too. Five years ago, a survey of translators revealed that over 80% used TMs. Four years ago, another survey revealed that of 430 translation job postings, 95% listed TM skills as a prerequisite. These trends have only increased since; studies have shown that the use of TMs increase (human) translator accuracy, throughput, and consistency. Since that time-saving factor makes more money, you have the good, the bad, and the ugly all using it these days.

Professional translators use MT, too. Not for anything coming close to a final translation, of course, but they might use it on, say, large bodies of text when they need a general idea without jumping in (for sanity checking, too, since computers don’t accidentally skip over lines). And many uses for MT have really only begun to be exploited.

So you can dislike these things all you want, but you really shouldn’t knock them. They do solve real problems, and yield helpful results in many places. For people who know what they’re doing, these technologies actually decrease the chance of errors.

If you are translating something, I would whole heartedly expect you to remember plot-significant items, names or running gags. Especially names and running gags. If you translate something, especially a story, you should come away remembering the plot, the climax, the characters and their names. I may has misinterpreted what you said, but it sounds like you are saying that you don't need to have a working understanding of something to translate it.
You will mess up over the course of time left to your own devices and not using every backup mechanism you can get your hands on. I don’t think you can really understand how inevitable it is until you actually do this for yourself and pore over megabytes’ worth of copy. Famous and talented writers have made plenty of unintentional errors in their own stories even after they’ve been past tens of pairs of eyes over long periods of time. No matter your working understanding of the work (and really, I wouldn’t argue that you don’t need one, because not having one is also a big-ass waste of time), any leg up you can get will minimize the number of flaws.

You are right when you say that technology is not the enemy, online dictionaries as well as electronic dictionaries make the whole process much faster, but when it comes to translation the best tool you can apply to the job is your own knowledge and ability. Basically I see using things like memory translation and online translation devices as taking a short cut, cutting corners, borderline on cheating. Having said that I do accept that they can come in handy for some things (translating twitter posts never crossed my mind).
No one is infallible and as far as I’m concerned, people are best off minimizing problems where they can get away with it. Ted Woolsey missed blatant Star Wars references in CT and FF6 despite the fact that no pop-culture savvy person could have survived the 80s and missed a Star Wars reference; with today’s Internet, you can’t not catch these things if you take a couple seconds to check up on something you’re not sure about. Some people (translators, even) see it as a crutch, but I belong to the school of thought that sees this technology as a higher point to stand upon.

Through all my ranting and raving I forgot that you guys are translating video games and aren't (I think) getting paid for it. So yeah, any mistakes that are made through translation software aren't going to hurt anyone and can be corrected at a later date.
This isn’t a given, either. Relationships fall apart. Hackers lose interest. Translators get stuck in faraway lands. Backups get lost. People pass away. And most sadly, people don’t really play the damn thing after a couple years.

Mistakes tend to stay around for a long time, particularly if you don’t go back and take time to to correct them—a phenomenon with which I’m sure many of us are all too familiar. By the time you’re done with certain long projects, you’re sick of them; when you go back to them after a while, you can’t stand knowing how you could make it better with everything you’ve picked up since then but can’t bear to spend more time, and in the end, you often don’t want to fix something you know is a bit off even when you have the opportunity because frankly it’s “good enough”.

In short, I think that your statement on translation software—that it leads to more mistakes—is just not so in the hands of the competent. For those who care to treat things the right way, it is another weapon in the armory. A bilingual dictionary can be full of mistakes (early ones in particular), but even in the absence of any error, they do not and cannot give a complete overview of their two languages. And yet, for every “English as She Is Spoke”, there are thousands of books out there that are perfectly readable heavily using the aid of bilingual dictionaries.

No, you aren’t going to remember every single instance of a particular word, even if it is a plot-significant item or someone’s name, or a running gag. You can try, but you will screw up eventually. The computer, however, can constantly look this up and be there to remind you. It can do a better job than you can, in fact, because not only is it relentless, it can see right around typos and guess by looking at similar entries. And if you aren’t the only translator on a project? Well, either you can read everyone else’s stuff and waste time you could be spending translating or revising, or you could just let the computer remember stuff you have never seen in the first place, and get the job done faster.

Technology is not the enemy. You need to apply the right tool to the right job; computers are very good at doing dumb things very fast. I have not used a paper dictionary, thesaurus, or encyclopedia in at least a decade for anything other than dead weight, and that’s because a computer can search not only the headings but the entries in a matter of seconds. I do not copy and paste text that I have already translated and is in the exact same context (which happens a lot in games with alternate story paths); I hit the key sequence that pastes it because the computer already has it ready. Anything that can make a stupid job go faster is something that gives me more time to concentrate on finer (smarter) points that a computer cannot do, such as thinking up a better translation, or making a sandwich.

Machine translation has its place, too. You might think that all the garbage text makes it worthless, but frankly there are lots of translation jobs that human translators don’t generally give a damn about. Documentation for a minor program on the Internet, or celebrity Twitter posts, for example. You won’t be able to hire a pro; pros don’t touch that stuff because it’s tedious and the time it might take them to land the job, start, and stop is longer than the work for which they would get paid, and besides, it’d be expensive for you. You could run it through a service like MyGengo for a couple of bucks, or... you could just run it through Google Translate and get the gist of it. We already have smartphone apps that can OCR text and run it through a machine translator or a dictionary lookup. For all the screwups it can cause, the convenience far outweighs stressing that limited commodity that is human thought. Why waste time if there is an easy way to not waste it?

Try translating an amount of text that can be measured in “Bibles” (as is the case with some games) without a translation memory and see if you can remember how every single line is related.

Personal Projects / Re: Pokemon Crystal Balancing
« on: April 19, 2011, 02:06:51 am »
The Pokémon concept of evolution is nothing like Darwin’s.

Programming / Re: How do I use this disassembled code in an assembler?
« on: April 17, 2011, 08:12:02 am »
The halting problem works on a Turing machine, which simply doesn’t and can’t exist (it has nothing to do with “any” language, because the language really applies to real code reasonably well; the reason halting is undecidable is because the Turing machine has infinite memory). However, there are things that make it relevant when you try to apply it for real. I bombed out of third-year CS, so here’s an article listing the bad news that someone else wrote because I could not write one that well. And here’s a complementary article on why it is not completely impossible.

In short, it is not completely impossible. That does not mean it is not a complete son of a bitch.

Programming / Re: How do I use this disassembled code in an assembler?
« on: April 17, 2011, 05:55:11 am »
The concept of full decompilation generally simplifies to the halting problem; that technically makes it an unsolvable problem—in theory-world.

What we do in the real world is to put certain limits on decompiling to make it practical. We can reduce the scope of what we look at (e.g. a trace, a real example of code that actually happens) or we limit what the program itself does (e.g. code for Google Native Client is, by design, sandboxed and analyzable). Certainly, “some” programs can be fully decompiled. But not “all”, and frankly, it isn’t even “most” when you use certain platforms.

The bottom loop of the ‘g’ got moved out of position.

And the only thing that made the first version truly a pain to read is the color.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Localisation Article on
« on: April 16, 2011, 12:07:49 am »
Just from the translation end, amateur translators also have better Japanese-language resources by far than any pro did 20 years ago. Dictionaries are bigger, more accurate, and more up to date than they were then (holdovers that haven’t been relevant since WWII, Chinese-only words mistaken for Japanese, and just plain wrong entries come to mind when you get into some print references). Search engines now index damn near everything; colloquialisms can be documented as they are coined. Machine translation can look up obscure words faster than you can (even if it still produces text reminiscent of Zero Wing). Assistance for the inexperienced can be cloudsourced in a matter of seconds. Convenience.

Programming / Re: Program Design and Data Structure (TextAngel)
« on: April 14, 2011, 04:17:11 pm »

And drawing upon the whole of my college CS education, that is my contribution to this thread. :laugh:

Enemies might say 当たり! when you run into them and die. Yeah, the Parodius series is like that.

Personal Projects / Re: Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei 1 & 2
« on: April 13, 2011, 05:18:11 am »
English “Fury” would be フューリー or フュリー; Latin “furiae” is フリアエ. I don’t see how you could get to ファライ from that but weirder misinterpretations have happened before.

“Pharai” actually exists in Greek, for what it’s worth, but it has nothing to do with mythology (it’s a place).

Script Help and Language Discussion / Re: Few strings.
« on: April 12, 2011, 02:31:52 am »
It may have come to this, but I’m a Captain, dammit! You will treat me that way!!

Actually, I’m wondering whether 大尉 means Captain in this context, since it’s only equivalent to an army kind of captain. It’s lower than the navy kind of captain (one step down from admiral) that would warrant that much ego (not that any rank justifies ego, but hey).

It depends on the language, actually. They’re usually pretty good at classical Latin.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Font Artist Needed
« on: April 11, 2011, 03:58:16 pm »
The original is called Westminster, but there are a zillion knockoffs.

Script Help and Language Discussion / Re: Dragon Ball
« on: April 10, 2011, 01:36:11 pm »
You wonder? The surprise would be if it weren’t.

Script Help and Language Discussion / Re: Dragon Ball
« on: April 07, 2011, 10:35:35 pm »
ハロー わしは せんにんじゃ!たすけて くれたのは どっちじゃ?
Buenas dias! I am the benevolent wizard of the mountains!
Which one of these people rescued you?
*The wizard actually says "hello" here, but any foreign greeting should carry the effect across.
Buenos días in good Spanish ;P

Don’t look at me, though, I wouldn’t have the foggiest as to how to write dialogue for Master Roshi.

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