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Messages - zera9924

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 31, 2009, 02:19:50 pm »
If you found "a lot", that's fine - please let us know because we can fix in v1.1, but you are the only person I have heard in the course of this thing voice a complaint in that regard.

If you're serious about this, I don't mind taking look at the script and making corrections. Just PM me a copy of it and I'll go over it in my spare time.

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 31, 2009, 12:49:25 pm »
Off-topic:

I am one step away from locking this thread, which is pathetic;

And this is why RHDN staff members are frequently met with complaints. There is nothing wrong with this discussion. You're blowing the situation out of proportion and insinuating that users are bitter and argumentive when they are infact not. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; go around branding user as criminals, and then affirm your actions when they suddenly turn against you.

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Let me say it again, cut the crap Zera!

Well, thanks for dismissing anything I express as crap. I suppose that's easier than refuting any points I've made.

In Site Feedback, I raised the issue of moderators closing discussions based on personal bias. Here we are...

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I do not mean to direct my comments at on individual but I asked everyone to please chill out om the topic (in this thread at least)

Who are you talking about, exactly? The pace of the thread is perfectly fine. Users are giving feedback about the translation, discussing and comparing opinions, and being perfectly civil about it. So far, only staff members have made accusations of incivility and flaming, when none of it is even occuring in the first place. The only incivility is coming from you and NC, who have taken it upon yourselves to say, "Hey, anyone who has a critical opinion of translation hacking is a big ol' douche-bag!" Doesn't matter how civil they are about it -- it's just plain inappropriate.

I don't prefer to take this to PM, because I think this indicates a good example of the issues raised in Site Feedback. That's all I will say on the matter, since it is off-topic to the discussion at hand. Take what you will from it.

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 30, 2009, 10:31:57 pm »
The extent of my complaint was that: 1.) too many bits were left out. I rarely believe there's a situation that calls for a total rewording of a sentence. A character accent can still be represented while keeping the literal wording intact. For instance, if the characters all speak in a medieval tone, then you can use early English grammar and syntax, but still be literal about it; and 2.) grammar / spelling. That's my main concern. That's what I mean by "unprofessional." It needs more editing.

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 30, 2009, 09:54:31 pm »
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you can't effectively show the intent of the authors unless it is localized so the new audience can understand the intent. you can't somehow translate into english while still leaving things as japanese as possible and have the new audience understand the work just as well as the original audience understood the original work. unless your new audience speaks only english while still trying to be as japanese as possible.

I think we're at a misunderstanding, in that case. What I mean by being literal is both keeping the wording intact as much as feasibly possible, but also carrying over the literal subtext, emotion, context, and other bits that are often lost in translation. Translation isn't just a matter of translating a string word-per-word, but also finding an equivalent way of expressing the character's emotions, accent, or other intricacies. An expression that's socially understood in Japanese won't necessarily be understood by an English audience, and vice-versa. In the same logic, I understand why localization teams may edit-out bits of Japanese culture, like replacing sushi with hotdogs or what-not.

Now I think I see the issue here. You guys are arguing against people who strictly feel "being literal" means translating something word-per-word, without any consideration to whether or not it makes sense to the target audience, or that the character's emotions or accents aren't carried over in some equivalent way. Some people even want to go as far as to leave honorifics intact. :laugh:

(although, again -- this doesn't seem to apply to the Policenauts debate / discussion)

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 29, 2009, 12:23:43 am »
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what translation is all about -- giving the audience in the translated language as close of an experience as possible to what the audience in the intended language received, an ideal/goal that I don't believe can truly be effectively argued against. Certain sacrifices obviously have to be made from a complete word-by-word, grammar-point-by-grammar-point translation in order to achieve this.

You just had to go and open Pandora's Box, didn't you? Well, I suppose another "literal versus edited" armageddon is way overdue, anyway.

I really just see it as a gray area. I believe there are situations where compromises and rewording would need to be made, but this is proportional to the skill of the translator(s). Basically, if you need to do a lot of rewording, then something is wrong. Given, some scripts just sound crappy in English, but that's another issue.

I don't see how this applies to the matter of Policenauts, either way. Way too much content was changed without sufficient reasoning, and it seems like you're trying to justify a personal bias instead of conceding that a more literal approach would have been perfectly fine in this case. Not that I care. I have no interest in the series. I guess I see no further point in offering or debating my opinions or criticisms in the matter of the translation, if the authors are clearly grounded in the decisions they've made regardless. Frankly, it's their prerogative.

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And since you brought it up, where I come from, constructive criticism means giving a bit of support with your argument rather than just going "this is unprofessional" without any evidence. But enough talk, have at you!

Where I come from, constructive criticism is as dry and brazen as it comes. Often times, a slap in the face was considered among the more polite gestures we used; but I digress... :P

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 27, 2009, 11:00:27 pm »
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So, in conclusion, anyone who puts Marc's work down on this is a poopiehead.

No one is putting his work down. Whatever happened to constructive criticism? I must point out that there are a lot of snide comments in your post directed at us, and potentially anyone else who would raise legitimate concerns with this translation. Calling something unprofessional is not necessarily done with malicious intent just because it's a negative implication.

On another note, it's really strange that there's so much "industry" posturing going on in this discussion. I don't know the story behind this, but appealing to one's credentials does not validate any opinions or standards one might hold. The nature of the translation method is not being debated, (in fact, I was simply criticizing the bad grammar and awkward syntax) but in releasing such work to the public, you're opening yourself to scrutiny. When the public doesn't approve, are you going to rally your co-workers into a lynch-mob against anyone who disagrees with you? Good luck with marketing if that's your attitude. :laugh:

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News Submissions / Re: Translations: Policenauts for PSX released
« on: August 27, 2009, 09:07:40 pm »
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... but I think the hack reads more like a localization of a released game than a literal translation and I think that's what we were going for.

I'm not sure I understand. Were you aiming for a nostalgic tone with the translation?

This is just constructive criticism, but judging from what sniplets of the script I've seen, it looks really unprofessional. Are you saying this is done on purpose? I guess I could understand that kind of approach with a really retro game -- such as with an NES translation -- but PSX?

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Good job. :thumbsup:

Been looking forward to this for a while.

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