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Messages - Bregalad

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General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 28, 2015, 05:30:25 am »
Mmmh... yes I understand completely.

Even simple things like "<MONSTER_NAME> was defeated" or "<ITEM_NAME> was received" should translate into two different versions in french depending on whether the monster or item is masculine or feminine, something absent from english (and I guess japanese).

This looks like details but is actually the reason each language translation needs the most attention, and is where most of the translation effort goes to... it sort of makes sense.

Site Talk / Re: Error during submission
« on: January 28, 2015, 03:39:03 am »
You should replace "https" with "http"

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 28, 2015, 03:23:28 am »
After you've spent 1000 hours on a game and you've reached your objective, and the last part has been only bug fixing crashes in ASM, trust me: the first thing you'll want to do is put it in a box on a shelf and call it all done, turn around and resume a normal social life.
Oh god I understand this feeling perfectly. Last summer when I spend my whole holliday on FF5 music hack 3.0 and there was random crashes I thought I was going mad. (But it turned out it was a simple error with DMA handling, with my code leaving garbage adress on the DMA channel while a VBlank IRQ happens and it would fire off DMA causing stack corruption).

What happens when they add a character to the script that isn't in the table, or when the script overflows its boundaries, or when the user doesn't know how to operate a tile editor, hex editor, or even a command prompt? These are all things that the proposed "new way" expects you to handle.
Oh, no I completely understand that nobody is willing to explain people how to use a command line. My intent was not that, and I full agree how frustrating and annoying that would be for the hacker.

The idea was rather that other translators submit the script to the main hacker, and he inserts it in the game using his tools and his knowledge. The main problem if that when this guy does not speak the language it's open to many error, that is why he then sumbit the patch to the translator which can test it and see if there is errors.

However, you do not need to speak the language to see text-spilling-out-of-the-boxes and other kind of errors.

And I don't think I'm ever taking the enormous amount of time to work on making my hard-coded work flexible with a WYSIWYG user interface to move text on a virtually reproduced screen in the tools.
Once again I never said anyone should do that, don't make me said what I didn't say.

I don't know why it seems that everyone is willing to start a flame war. I would not care for it, and if nobody is interested in inserting script for non-english languages, then I (or anyone else) cannot force anyone to be interested - I do not have any problem with this lack of interest.

I just thought the translations could be better quality if the script for multiple languages were inserted by one specialist of hacking the game, instead of re-doing the hack from scratch for every language that's all.

Did I word something badly, so that everyone undertand "spending lots of time designing a graphical interface for random users..." when I never said that ?

If you say even what I really propose (and not a speculative superlative of what I was originally proposing) is not feasible, then I understand. No need to start flaming wars or anythting.

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 27, 2015, 07:43:55 am »
It's completely useless for re-use in another translation.
So according to you the following 3 hacks :
  • Changing a menu layout/window size to fit english text
  • Changing a menu layout/window size to fit french text
  • Changing a menu layout/window size to fit german text
Have absolutely nothing in common and can't be re-used ? Come on, this is getting ridiculous.

However, if your point is that in some case the words in languages would be even longer than english and that the menus would have to be re-re-arranged, then I agree with you.

I am sure at least Final Fantasy 1, 2 and 3 have a nice menu engine that allows to re-locate any part of it on the screen easily, but it's true many game could have that part hard-coded and that would make it difficult to change.

And why does the hacker/tool creator have to provide customer service for their own code going on into the future?
He does not have to, but if he does, then it is very useful for non-english translation and is a nice service to offer to the international community. Of course if he does not want to, then we are stuck with translations done the "old way". If you really don't care or want to save your time then you should not spend it translating or hacking games in the 1st place.

If you have spent so many hours helping a game getting translated in english I don't see why you'd hate to spend a couple more for other language - but if this is the case I understand and nobody would force you. I am just pointing out that would be a great idea for major well known games, not about obscure games such as Rudra, Megami Tensei or whathever.

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 27, 2015, 05:42:20 am »
I just made an example using both a french and an german sample, one using the dakuten interline for diactrics and the other using plain 8x8 font with a blank interline. I really think in both cases using the interline is more readable. Both the french accent and the german umlaut is supposed to be clearly separate from the letter, and it does not matter if it floats above the top of the "f" letter. If there is no space between the letter and the diactric it is not readable. If the letter is "compressed" to make the diactric fit it is also unreadable. But if the diactric floats too high it does not matter.

Using plain old 8x8 font :

Using interline :

And if the translator doesn't have any hacking skills, they'd better find someone who does.
Exactly my thoughts. That's why a hacker which have good insight on a particular game can be useful for multiple translations.

Menus are messy, are the bulk of the work, and are absolutely key to having a quality translation. Why don't you understand that?
Err.. Because you didn't mention it ? If you say it is so, then it is so, I'm not denying it. I know how hard it is to re-arrange menus like in your screenshot without introducing major bugs. However, if they had to be re-arranged a certain way for English, then it's unlikely they need to be re-arranged otherwise for another language using latin writing system (or even any other left-to-right alphabet system).

And I understand this might not apply to a lot of particular games where "just script re-inserting" is not as simple as it sounds.

it takes a lot of time to make tools functional, intuitive, and easy to use by other people. And that's with me sitting here right in the same room and being able to explain anything that goes wrong.
Again, we are in full agreement, and that is why the same hacker could be helpful for other translation instead of just a single one : Since he knowns exactly the gotchas of the game there is no need that many people do the same reverse-engineering work again and again for every different language.

Again, the real problem that you're describing is that the next theoretical hacker coming onto the project who chooses to translate from English is just lazy. They should either hack the original Japanese file, or properly hack the English one. That they choose not to is completely unrelated to how other people should structure their projects.
If there was menu re-arrangement done for the english patch then they'd most definitely want to re-use the hack instead of re-doing all the work. And what exactly do you mean by "properly hack the english one" ?
What if the english hack is updated while the other translation is being developped ?

I don't understand. If the audio was recorded for 22050Hz, and then played back at 37800Hz, then everyone would have mices' voices, and it would be out of sync with the video. This don't happen in the youtube video you linked to. However, it seems like there is a mixture of spanish and japanese (I speek neither).

If it was audio-only sequence you could make it 18kHz and save disk space, however if it is with video you'll save nothing, except you'll have one more sector for video (but who cares).

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 26, 2015, 10:19:23 am »
There are always going to be a lot of second-hand translations because there are a lot more English <> French translators than Japanese <> French translators
Exactly my point. Thus, if the translator doesn't have to have any hacking skills, there is a lot more chances to be able to find a Japanese <> French translator (for example, it could be any other language pair).

The issues you list won't be resolved by centralizing the programming.
Why not ?

I just can't see any real logical reason for someone spending even more time than necessary hacking a game open on the off chance that someone wants to translate it into another language
It is not about spending even more time, it is about just making the toolset available for other languages. There is absolutely no extra work to do - except not remove the interline's code from the japanese original (and just leave them unused for the particular case of an english translation). Very minor font edits will have to be done when a new language's script is submitted but that's a couple of minutes we're talking about.

Front Page News / Re: Utilities: GBAMusRiper released
« on: January 26, 2015, 08:41:39 am »
Ok I will fix the RPN/NRPN order, I never though it mattered, but if it does then it's easy to get it in the other order.

About the pan, I'll have to verify or deny your guess somehow. If there is a linearity problem, then I could make it the same as the volume/velocity correction I already does (you can set it to native or corrected, but it defaults to corrected, so that "sounds" like the original - while destroying part of the information).

By the way, I am also not satisfied in how the Golden Sun synths sounds currently but I don't know how to make them sound better without a major rewrite of the instrument generation (something I don't feel like doing).

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 26, 2015, 05:53:22 am »
We're getting a bit off-topic, but since you mention it I might as well answer.

For me the best solution for writing french would be to have the font aligned on the "top" of the letters, so that there is still one empty pixel on the bottom of the font for a decent-looking 'ç' character. The accent are not floating way too high, as the dakuten line would connect directly to the letters (this is also what is done with typical kana fonts, too).

Also if you say that screen space is #1 concern, then it definitely should be. You are better placed than I to know that, I only tried to do a french translation once very long ago, and I ended giving up pretty quickly (the game was FF3 NES). Now that you mention it I remember that I had a major problem fitting the magic's name in the menu, as well as the commands name in the main menu.

General Discussion / Re: Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 26, 2015, 04:04:39 am »

First of all you are definitely a lot more knowledgeable about this as I am, and you did countless hacks that managed to insert extra lengthy English text without causing bugs. You are thus more experienced and have a better insight than I'll ever have.

However, I think it makes more sense to solve the problem "insert more text where there was less" only once. French is typically much longer than english, by the way (Wolfram alpha says 1.1x, but I don't know how believable or accurate this number is). After being appropriately compressed however, text in French and English will not necessary take more space than in japanese, only more screen space.

One thing which particularly annoy me is that in french translation the accented letters (àéè...) as well as the 'ç' character systematically looks downright terrible and unreadable, including in official translation releases. The japanese original allows an interline to place dakutens and handakutens when text is written, this interline could be typically reused to place accents and other diactrics in french and many other languages. However it is not done, probably because code to handle this interline was left out in the english translation, and is not getting back. This might be hard to understand form an english-speaking point of view, but as far I know the vast majority of latin-written languages uses diactrics, and having glitches with those letters is a major issue to readability.

I think it is only more natural than solving the "scrip doesn't fit" problem once instead of a dozen of times for each languages.

And I understand why you are not willing to share the tools openly, to avoid easy-to-made spoof hacks based on the script inserter for instance.

EDIT : In summary, I agree with you when it comes to languages using a completely different writing system such as arabic, chineese, etc... However, for european languages, a generic script insertor (plus a few other graphics modifications) should be able to make all the languages fit in the same original ROM, with only a single hack done to insert longer textes (with compression or ROM expansion).

Are you able to redirect the sound effects to extended Square 1 and Square 2 channels, so that music continues to play when sound effects are played ? That is honestly the only application of a "MMC5 hack" that would come to my mind.

General Discussion / Fan translations done the "new way"
« on: January 23, 2015, 05:45:04 am »
I don't know where I was supposed to discuss about it, so I made it in the general discussion, and I'll let the mods move it anywhere else if there is a need to.

Currently fan translation are done the "old way", which is :

  • A person or a group of person gets interested in translating game X from language Y to language Z.
  • This person hacks the game and make his own tools to insert the translated script back in the game, and releases a patch
  • (Optional) The person updates the patch to fix bugs and misspellings when he or someone found them
  • When people want to translate a japanese game to a non-english language, usually they do an addendum on the english fan translation (but distribute their patch in regard to the original, in order to "fake" it into an japanese->language Z translation)
  • Other people do a million of addendums to make ridiculous minimal changes to the script, such as changing "?!" to "!?" and stuff like that, and release it as if it was a revolution, especially if the game is called "Final Fantasy 4, 5 or 6"

Translation done the "new way" would be :
  • Someone reverse engineer the game, and make tools so that it is possible to insert a generic script in a generic language into the original (typically japanese) ROM.
  • Other group of dedicated people do the text-only translation directly from japanese to all languages, such as japanese->english, japanese->german, japanese->french, etc, etc....
  • If nobody can do the mentionned translation, then someone may translate it form another lagnague in the wait of anything better
  • Whenever a translation fix is made (in any langauge), the new script is sent to the hacker, who releases a new patch.

The patches are thus never addendums and are always made to the original game, and there is a centralized hack made for all translations making it better. Updates are clean, and there is no thousands of co-existing translations, which is confusing as we don't know which one to use.

Of course for small games that receives little interest this technique will never work, but in my opinion it would be worth making for big titles (hint : if there is multiple english translations and multiple translations in non-english languages then the game in question definitely is a big title). So that people stop complaining that it is badly translated, and stop releasing addendums to addendums to fix ridiculous things.

So far, the Castlevania II retranslation is the only one I can think of who did things the new way, and I really think it is a better approach and should be used with more games. (However I do not necessarly like that he merged this with hacking that has nothing to do with re-translation, but that is another story).

Newcomer's Board / Re: Any newcomers here a Linux user?
« on: January 16, 2015, 03:06:40 am »
Personally I use Linux mostly for work, and Windows mostly for leisure.

If you want to do romhacking without using Windows, you are unfortunately going to be severly limited right now, pehaps in the future it won't be the case anymore ?

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Suikoden 1 and 2
« on: January 12, 2015, 05:22:02 pm »
He isnt  French xD  he is german and cant speak french but in the game has the french text in the german version ^^
I was talking about the guy in the game, not the guy who speaks in the video (back then I just looked the video with sound turned off).

But yeah, it could be that he (the guy in the game) is german speaking and trying to learn french... lol.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Suikoden 1 and 2
« on: January 12, 2015, 11:07:11 am »
They sound like beginners who just started learning french, because there is HUGE mistakes in their texts.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Suikoden 1 and 2
« on: January 12, 2015, 08:38:54 am »
Also i plan a Suikoden 2 Translation Fix (in german some Text was in french -.-)
LOOOOL. This is too fun.

I just played the French version of Suikoden 2 last year and the translation was awful. There was many problems with non-ASCII characters (é, è, à, etc....), some times they would show up OK, and then in another place a wrong character would show up instead.
I think some parts were left in english, which is already bad enough, but leaving french part in the german version is just lame.

Otherwise, all I can say is that they are two awesome games, and that's it would be great to have them translated (or re-translated respecively) in german.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Contra nes improvement
« on: January 08, 2015, 10:37:02 am »
Par contre le fait que je l ai agrandi modifie aussi la surface de collisions?
Bien sûr que non, les collisions se font de façon "logique" dans le code du jeu (et non de façon "graphique" par hardware, comme c'est possible par exemple pour le Commodore 64).

Si tu t'intéresse aux collisions de Contra ça tombe bien, quelqu'un a écrit un article à ce sujet récemment : http://tomorrowcorporation.com/posts/retro-game-internals

$4e et $4f sont les numéros des Tiles dans la banque. La première banque se trouve au début de la CHR-ROM, qui est dans le fichier après l'en-tête iNES et la PRG-ROM (c'est à cause du standard iNES). Tu vois bien que quand tu édites les graphiques d'une ROM il n'y a que de la "bouille de pixels" pour la première partie : C'est normal car c'est la PRG-ROM, le programme, et qu'il ne stoque pas les graphiques. Puis il y a les graphiques qui correspondent à la CHR-ROM, il y a de nombreuses banques mais les sprites principaux se trouvent dans la première.

Pour l'auréole rouge, ce n'est possible que si la couleur rouge est contenue dans la palette qui est utilisé pour le projectile en question... Les graphiques ne font pas références aux couleurs directement (ça prendrait beaucoup trop de place) mais à la palette qui elle même fait référence aux couleurs (palettes de 4 couleurs (dont une transparente) : 2 bits par pixel, d'ou le nom "NES 2BP").

Bonne chance pour la suite.

ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Contra nes improvement
« on: January 08, 2015, 06:11:29 am »
Ce genre de hack est extrêmement simple à faire, car les graphiques de Contra (J) ne sont pas compressés (contrairement à ceux de Contra (U) ). Il te suffit de trouver le tile qui fait le projectile de d'en dessiner un plus gros toi-même, à l'aide d'un éditeur de Tiles comme YY-CHR ou TileMolester.

Petite particularité, il s'agit de sprites 8x16, donc il faut utiliser le mode "FC/NES x 16" de YY-CHR (Tile Molester a aussi une option équivalente mais j'ai la flemme d'aller regarder comment elle s'apelle). Modifie les tiles $4E et $4F de la première banque de graphiques et voilà.

Et non, je ne pense pas que quelqu'un d'autre soit intéressé par ce genre de hack "trivial".

Gaming Discussion / Re: Donkey Kong Country Retrospective?
« on: January 07, 2015, 02:46:32 am »
Call me insane but I was never too fond of DKC2, I always enjoyed the first one a lot more.
Same here.

Front Page News / Re: ROM Hacks: New Hacks Added to the Database
« on: January 03, 2015, 06:34:23 am »
Did someone manage to get the Mega Man X hack working with audio ? I can't download the file.

Uh, a pantyshot on the front page?
Oh no sounds like I missed something great :(

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