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Messages - Mr X

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Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: Today at 01:07:26 am »
Mr X

I just don't see Acc/Eva making much difference.  I'm just not noticing it much in a gameplay (but it probably has effect in subtle way).

The original SoM is pretty easy.  There's not much I can do to make the "balance" work, equipment or not.  The purpose of my equipment element is to simply use the not-used-mechanic, in a hopefully-better-experience way.  If you want to rebalance, then you can use kethinov/Queue's Harder Monster.

My point is the elemental armors wouldn't be much more useful than they are now with the current setting of the game.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: May 27, 2020, 08:26:18 am »
Mr X

It feels like what you're suggesting is better fit for NG+.  I'm only trying to incorporate elements into equipments, for more "options" during the regular gameplay.  Thanks for your idea though.

I guess Black Hex can be seen as OP, if seen on paper.  But in practice, all it lowers is Strength and Def (Acc and Eva don't matter much).  And all of Black Hex's SEs are nowhere near powerful as humble Balloon or Engulf (stun SEs are overwhelmingly better than [Slow + Confuse + Poison]).  And vanilla Petrify is just ridiculous (thank god Queue for the nerf).

Ok fair. Was thinking that it would also lower magic defense and magic effectiveness like the black curse from sd3, my bad.

Also why don't accuracy and evasion not matter? Is it because of how it's scaled?

May 27, 2020, 08:46:17 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
As for Equipment not sure what else I can think off, the game is already as off balance as it is on the mid/endgame parts of the game, due to the poor scaling rhe original game did.

Even if you give equipment elemental resistance it wont matter much, let's say you give Magical Armor dark element resistance even slightly the dark palace is already an easy enough area, after some farming and you gain a few levels you will see how you breeze through the area. Same for the Gold Tower, only Aegagropilon seems to be threatening enough then the rest of the Grand Palace a breeze with the op equipment available to farm.

Scaling down the equipment means Pure Land gonna be off balance, scale the equipment up and the Grand Palace still remaind a joke. There is really no good way to to think of giving armors elements just for the sake of giving it because of the problems from the original game and the broken enemy scaling.

Hence why I think needs a lot of time to think through all that.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: May 27, 2020, 05:57:45 am »
One way I was thinking is scaling down all enemies and changing the equipment entirely, offering builds for all 3 characters.

Crit Build, Physical Build, Defensive Build, Balanced, Resistance Build, rings that would offer a slight bonus to a spirit in damage, basically almost no equipment being useless (therefore story wise making all these Kingdoms and towns equally important by having all these unique equipment), making use constantly of the buy and sell feature the game offers buying what you currently need and selling what you currently don't need.

Or at least do something like that for the part of the game from Empire and onwards where the balance totally shifts. Scale down enemies and equipment defenses Starting from Southtown but offer bonuses to them. Equipment with a slight resistance to an element but lowers cast time for example etc. I think that would make the gameplay a lot more engaging and think how you wanna build a character, but this will probably take a long time to implement. And have monsters be more agressive with spells and maybe have some use elemental physical attacks so it would be worth using for.

That would be one way.

But yeah I am thinking here in long term, not something to do within a day.

Black Hex was indeed first meant to be an enemy-only spell.  However, I changed my mind, so that players can see the Evil Gate animation (esp the rare Shadow Zero cameo for Lv9).  Indeed, Hellfire has Evil Gate animation, so Black Hex may not be necessary.  It's just that Hellfire is so unbelievably powerful against any bosses (4-hit kill), because there's almost no fire-element bosses (2 in Pure Land, and that's it).  It just made most attack spells unnecessary against bosses (esp with things like Faerie Coconuts available, not to mention Magic Absorb if you enabled Early Luna).  Also, I wanted early access to Dispel Magic, which had a positive side effect of grinding Salamando magic easier (you don't have to search for enemies).

But Hellfire is one helluva unique spell (it even has an awesome name), so I can see why many people would prefer that over Black Hex.  That's probably why Black Hex is OFF by default.

Black Hex is also op tho lowering all stats so it's a toss up between the two. Both are op spells at the hands of the players both would need an equally important nerf, imo. Lowering everything to monsters would mean you can walk through them with no worries.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: May 27, 2020, 02:31:03 am »
I wouldn't rush creating a patch about armors yet. It requires more thinking.

You don't necessary need high defensive armors to get through Pure Land also. I used Lucid Barrier and Balloon spell frequently coupled with Light Saber for that Balloom status to get my way through. Battlesuit, Vestguard, and the armor for the Girl in Golden City got me through this just fine. Heal when in trouble, use Angels Grails which are cheap by that point, restore your mp. In terms of defensw I was fine.

I also had Griffin Helm, Cocratice Cap, Gauntlet, Ninja Glove, and the ring from Pure Land that protects from Engulf and Snowman. The problem eith that set up eas tyat the Grand Palace wasn't doing shit to me then the Pure Land spiked in difficulty, instead I would have raised the difficulty in Grand Palace, only the Robot Boss was dealing actual damage from that area.

I will post more detailed thoughts about that later and debate that.

Also hmsong I thought Black Hex was gonna be an enemy only spell for those that used Evil Gate to distinguish it from the Hellfire?

Queue even if the Hero chargess faster I would still use the Gril she is just more fun overall to use being most balanced among the 3 characters with spells, stats, armors, weapons. But at least Randi would stand out with his fast weapon charging and increasing his charging even more once you have Speed Up at high enough level, so he becomes sort of a tech user for most part and would be distinguished in that aspect from the Girl and Sprite. Sort of like the Shadow version of the 3 characters you fight in Jochs cave, but a poor mans version of them.
While with Level 9 weapons charging even faster.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: May 25, 2020, 02:14:53 pm »
Most folks use Randi as the primary attacker.  He is stronger than the other two characters, though that difference may be negligible in the grand scheme of things.  Perhaps it would have better for him to be stronger to a degree that using the other two for physical attacks is a disadvantage?

He has a casting animation which may indicate that there were originally spells for him.   Many intended elements of Secret of Mana were later used in Chrono Trigger and Trials of Mana, and I believe all characters in those games have access to magic or some special tech.

I use Randi till the Girl at least gets 4-5 spirits, then I switch to her quite frequently she's more fun to play overall, while Popoie casts from a corner if possible.
But I have no clue how Randi could be improved on to be less bland. I don't think he needs an attack boost necessary he is strong enough physically imo, even if you decrease the attack power of the other two, he still would be bland to use, other two characters have access to weapons and spells, Randi just weapons.

Yeah in Trials of Mana and Chrono Trigger all characters have access to techs/spells. Always found that the sprites of Randi/Crono and Purim/Marle looked very similar.

Btw your website is awesome, had a fun time reading some content on it, very interesting stuff.

Edit: I guess one way would be to make Randi's charge attacks faster so that might distinguish him more from Purim/Sprite who would have the current charge time attack, while lowering the attack of all 3 characters, so Randi makes the use of charge techs worth it, coupled with Speed up and how it functions in turbo, would work pretty well.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200524
« on: May 25, 2020, 10:08:28 am »
LightBaneX Yeah, kinda agree the boy having nothing to stand out among the 3 players till the final battle is bullshit. Wouldn't have hurt the original game to have given him some spell that fits him thematically, like the saber spells maybe, but I have no clue if it can be done something about him anymore if it wasn't done originally.

I remember my first time I got Undine and thought "oh now my characters can use spells, how awesome", except the Hero, that was quite the letdown for me as a kid back then, nothing to stand out.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200517
« on: May 20, 2020, 12:55:34 pm »
Wish they would have improved SoM in terms of gameplay through the remake. Trials of Mana remake seems a lot better in terms of gameplay than the original, and none of stats/equipmemt that don't work.

The story and the voice acting tho is something else entirely, better not talk about that lol.

Really wish they would have fleshed out SoM a lot more with the remake, in every aspect, they missed the opportunity.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200517
« on: May 19, 2020, 03:03:49 am »
Version 2020-05-17:

- Event_Fixes covers 4 more mistakes in the vanilla text

This was just a maintenance release while I work on the Script Augmentation Project.

Mr X, I'll look into it. A preliminary check showed no changes to how it functions (when you name the girl and sprite is when it sets their default element levels, and it looks like the code that does so should be functioning), so it'll require I dig deeper. It's especially weird that it seemed to partially work.

This update seem to work for both so far, just got gnome and as inteded both the Girl and Sprite got him at level 1.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200510
« on: May 16, 2020, 09:35:09 am »
Have tried the latest update, the Deafult Spirit levels does not seem to work correctly for the Girl but for the Sprite it does seem to work just fine.

I set Gnome to be level 1 and Sylphid level 2 as deafult but the Girl got Gnome at Level 0 while Sylphid at level 1, while Sprite got them as intended.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200309
« on: March 10, 2020, 12:07:37 pm »
@Mr X

Queue already mentioned that Saber magic has no effect on bosses, since their melee attacks have their own separate "stats".  So giving Hex saber magics would be meaningless.

As for Evil Gate and Hellfire, those are Queue and kethinov's patches, so I will not modify their magics.  Besides, I don't even know how to modify their magic, since those are some complicated stuff that I can't even begin to touch.  I may create my own version of Evil Gate though (maybe), since I really want to make Black Curse spell from SD3 (I'll be using Shadow Saber though, since I like Shadow Saber a lot, but NPC can use my new version).  I'll have it cause All-Stat Down + several SEs.


Okay, I have a lot of updates:

[Enemy_Stat_Changes] -- please add this at the end of my previous codes.  I'm giving extra experience in the beginning third of the game).  Maybe make it a sub-option for those who don't want this?
Code: [Select]
' ---

' Experience/Money Mod
@OFF $D01C67 ' Chobin Hood
@OFF $D01CA1 ' Iffish
RAW 28
@OFF $D01D15 ' Spectre
RAW 80 01
@OFF $D01D4F ' Goblin
@OFF $D01D6C ' Water Thug
RAW 74
@OFF $D01DA6 ' Ma Goblin
@OFF $D01DC3 ' Dark Funk
RAW 4F 01
@OFF $D01DE0 ' Crawler
@OFF $D01E1A ' Zombie
RAW 48
@OFF $D01E37 ' Kimono Bird
@OFF $D01E54 ' Silktail
RAW 89
@OFF $D01E71 ' Nemesis Owl
@OFF $D01E8E ' Pebbler
@OFF $D01EAB ' Pumpkin Bomb
@OFF $D01EC8 ' Steamed Crab
@OFF $D01EE5 ' Chess Knight
@OFF $D01F02 ' Wizard Eye
RAW 3D 02
@OFF $D01F1F ' Howler
RAW 2B 01
@OFF $D01F3C ' Robin Foot
RAW A9 01
@OFF $D01F59 ' LA Funk
RAW 4F 01
@OFF $D01F76 ' Grave Bat
@OFF $D01FCD ' Evil Sword
RAW 61
@OFF $D01FEA ' Tomato Man
RAW 59
@OFF $D02007 ' Mystic Book
RAW A9 01
@OFF $D02024 ' Sand Stinger
@OFF $D02041 ' Mad Mallard
RAW 09 01
@OFF $D0207B ' Red Drop
RAW 80 01
@OFF $D0210C ' Dinofish
RAW D5 01
@OFF $D02119 ' Mimic Box Level
RAW 2E ' 46
@OFF $D02129 ' Mimic Box EXP
RAW 1B 06 ' 1563
@OFF $D02134 ' Mimic Box GP
RAW FC 03 ' 1020
@OFF $D021BA ' Spider Legs
RAW 00 01
@OFF $D021D7 ' Weepy Eye
RAW A9 01
@OFF $D021F4 ' Shellblast
RAW 76 01
@OFF $D0222E ' Ghoul
RAW 0C 02
@OFF $D02268 ' Blue Drop
RAW 80 01

[Alternate_Transform_List] -- I changed things around, so Mimic (who is actually a lot stronger than its level suggested) and Weepy Eye isn't included in the transformation list.  I instead gave Silktail, since it's the mascot of the game.  And I changed things so Chess Knight can be included here.
Code: [Select]
@OFF $C8E5F3 ' Rabite --> Ma Goblin (aka Goblin Guard)

@OFF $C8E5F4 ' Mushboom --> Dark Funk

@OFF $C8E5F5 ' Lullabud --> Zombie
RAW 12

@OFF $C8E5F6 ' Kid Goblin --> Silktail
RAW 14

@OFF $C8E5F7 ' Green Drop --> Nemesis Owl
RAW 15

@OFF $C8E5F8 ' Water Thug --> Pumpkin Bomb
RAW 17

@OFF $C8E5F9 ' Pebbler --> Chess Knight
RAW 19

@OFF $C8E5FA ' Pumpkin Bomb --> Shellblast
RAW 34

@OFF $D01EE9 ' Chess Knight Change Form works
'RAW 40 1E
RAW 40 16

[_Dust_Flare_-_Replaces_Fire_Bouquet] -- Please delete Dark Lich's Dust Flare from [Enemy_Behavior_Changes], and instead put it in the [Dust_Flare] section.  Preferably between [@OFF $C2EC56] and ['@OFF $C2EF02]:
Code: [Select]
@OFF $C2E98B ' Dark Lich Dispel Magic --> Dust Flare
RAW 04

[Spell_Balance_Overhaul] -- I'm not sure why, but it seems that you disabled Herbal Boost to multi-target (even though Moon Energy is multi-target).  Was there a reason for that?  Or was it some mistake?  Or did I ask you to do that, and I somehow forgot about it?  In any case, could you please make it multi-target?  Thanks.

[Enemy_Behavior_Changes] -- In addition to Dust Flare changes, here are few more changes:
Code: [Select]
'@OFF $D06B5C ' Werewolf Uses Cure Water below 100 HP <------ I'm disabling this, because Werewolf curing at 100 HP was too hard.
'RAW 64 00

IF [Magic]
IFNOT Change_Form_-_Pygmy-Moogle ' compat
@OFF $D07F56 ' Beast Zombie Speed Down (1 enemy) --> Lunar Boost (self) <----- This already exists, but I'm giving the IF function now.
RAW C4 E9 05 1C

IF [Magic]
IF Spell_System_Extensions
IF _Lunar_Magic_-_Celestial_Cascade ' compat
@OFF $D090EB ' Gremlin Freeze --> Lunar Magic <------ I want to see more Lunar Magic, and Gremlin seemed like a good candidate.

@OFF $D0999C ' National Scar Spawns Imp --> Gremlin <------ Imp is too weak enemy by the time National Scar appears.
RAW 46

And finally, this isn't mine, but kethinov actually updated his Later Midge Mallet.  Since I'm pretty much the only person to use Later Midge Mallet, I figured I should do the work.  The code changed from:
Code: [Select]
RAW 42 3400

Code: [Select]
RAW 42 2409

Applies to vanilla, VWF, and Relocalized.

I know I changed a lot, but I'd appreciate it if you can update these.  Thank you so much.

Ok didn't know that (or forgot, it's been a long time). Thanks for explaining

I wouldn't mind that for NPC Evil Gate.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200309
« on: March 10, 2020, 05:49:54 am »
Looking forward to try the new update.

hmsong Hey there, it's been a long time indeed, hope you all have been foing fine

I was thinking of replacing Hexas spells with saber magic that represents her color.
Blue - Ice Saber
Brown - Stone Saber
Light Purple - Thunder Saber
Red - Flame Saber

Was also thinking since we have spells like hellfire now, if that's applied, add to the npc Evil Gate a status infliction besides being just a different colored hellfire with the same function. Hp based damage + confuse or something.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200305
« on: March 09, 2020, 07:09:23 am »
I think the Dark Stalker should have change form and Dispel, removing acid rain.

A lot more endgame enemies should have dispel imo, as your magic levels are higher by that point so you would use buffs more often. I like the change you made for hexas and make use of the lunatic spell but I also think she should keep dispel as she gets countered by wall easily, being a heavy magic caster.

I think her other forms need to be more effevtive, should cast effective spells more agressively.

I like the changes you made on the wall/vampirr bosses, instead of freeze giving them wall. Would be fitting if the Chambers eyes would cast speed down, fitting the theme of being gnome elemental. But doubt it's possible giving another spell, it's fine if it stays the way it is now.

I like those changes overall.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200229
« on: March 05, 2020, 06:36:50 am »
Hm, I'm not sure why the background color (the sky) failed to get color filtering applied. Here's a screenshot I just took at the same location:

That's in Mesen-S; I also saw the expected results in ZSNES. Not sure yet if it's actually an emulator issue, just mentioning in case.

I've never really looked at the weapon experience logic, but that sounds like something I want to fix. If I recall correctly, the Mana Magic damage bonus does benefit from 8:99 (for the boy only, for obvious reasons), but that should be the only thing that cares about partial weapon experience.

And here's a preview of what I've been working on (for like 2 months):

I tried again and the sky now looks completely normal, not sure what could have caused that. I use Snes9x.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200229
« on: March 02, 2020, 01:21:08 am »
Version 2020-02-29:

- Second preview of Miscellaneous\Enhanced_World_Map. The globe map view now scrolls pretty quickly. I think it feels nice now but would like feedback. It cost 256 KB of ROM space, which is a LOT, but probably worth it. Still can be improved further, but trying to push out playable iterations as I go.

Never used the globe view due to how slow it was. It's much better now for sure.

March 03, 2020, 02:19:03 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Not sure if this was pointed out but I ran into this:

March 03, 2020, 06:02:51 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
An issue (sort of) I ran into regarding weapon reforging after level 9, after I level up a weapon to 8:99, if I reforge that weapon back to level 8, after I kill an enemy it reverts back from 8:99 to 8:0.

But that wont even matter atm, since reaching 8:99 is worthless, just mentioning it in case something gets done in the future about the 8:99 thing.

March 03, 2020, 06:27:06 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Hm actually I am able to level up the Griffin Claw beyond level 8:0 after reforged

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 200211
« on: February 24, 2020, 02:21:44 pm »
Hello, hope everyone has been doing well! Even tho I wasn't active in testing, I was still keeping an eye to this thread from time to time. Good to be back.

February 24, 2020, 02:26:18 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
@Queue @kethinov

I am truly glad that both of you haven't ditched SoM.  I know it's been quiet here recently, but I check this place everyday, always looking forward to the things you've been working on.  This is the most ambitious project in improving the game that I've ever seen (I hope neither of you are tired of making immprovements to this).  And I seriously enjoyed all the improvements, to the point that I feel that if this had been implemented in the original release, this would have been the most well known action rpg in the golden era.  Well, SoM was still extremely well known, but people had plenty of complaints due to many many problems.

Agree, and agree. They could bave used the opportunity with the remake to fix the issues/flaws the original SoM had, but from what I heard nothing changed in regards to the flaws the original SoM had.

I still love the game, that's why I follow this thread. It was one of the first super nintendo games I played as a kid.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191205
« on: December 10, 2019, 01:06:52 am »
I don't have an issue with circular forging, by the end of the game I have enough money from the mana fortress anyway. You could also use the feature of Lunar Magic/Lunatic to transform some monsters into mimic to get equipment to sell, if you really are in need of money.

What I started to do in my recent playthrough after reaching level 8 or 8:99 weapons I forge some of them back. Especially how op poison is in this game I forge the Boomerang back to the Cobra Shuttle, and equip it as the 2nd weapon to the Hero, hit with the boomerang the enemies till he poisons them, then switch to the sword for pure damage. While forging the Axe back to level 8 so the Girl gets extra strength points.

There are also alternatives in form of sabers also, Light saber is very effective in mana fortress, I think it's nice to be forced to spend some mp to use it smartly, outside bosses also.

Magic recharge is actually really good Eids, in the original you rarely ever would attack with weapons, magic chain cast was just a broken feature in the game, it made the original game pathethically easy. It fixes at least that issue.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191205
« on: December 07, 2019, 03:40:46 pm »
Hm how about just leaving it as 1  to very low damage depending on enemy. I wouldn't sacrifice that perk of the undead enemies, definitely feels like a bummer, imo

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191205
« on: December 06, 2019, 01:37:56 am »
Well, making some enemies absorbing their own element is no big deal, SD3 did that it was never a problem for me at any point.

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191202
« on: December 03, 2019, 05:36:10 pm »
Queue it's casting a spell while charging up

Personal Projects / Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191202
« on: December 03, 2019, 08:29:07 am »
@Mr X

That's because you didn't enable [Spell_Balance_Overhaul].  It allows few spells to bypass Wall.  But you make an excellent point.  Thank you for telling me.  I shall make another code that uses IF and IFNOT, so if people don't use [Spell_Balance_Overhaul] (Turbo default doesn't use that), Mech Rider 3 will use another spell.

Oops my bad, I see.

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