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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on October 09, 2009, 11:56:07 am

Title: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: RHDNBot on October 09, 2009, 11:56:07 am
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage863a.jpg)

Update By: Ninakoru

Secret of Evermore is an incredible Action RPG game of the late years of the Super Nintendo. You play with two characters, a boy and his dog, who get trapped themselves in a fantasy world called Evermore. The story is quite original, and, for a change, more funny than serious.

This game had, until today, very few patches to play with. We had the great multiplayer patch and a few known bugs fixes, but nothing more.

Just here (http://www.ninakoru.com/SoE/index.html) we have a fully-featured patch that deal with many internal aspects of the game, with the objective of having a challenging and more enjoyable experience with this already great game.

RHDN Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance Patch page (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/602/)

Relevant Link: (http://www.ninakoru.com/SoE/index.html)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: gukid on October 10, 2009, 04:02:57 pm
I love this kind of stuff!  Definitely gonna give it another playthrough.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: realworksuks on October 10, 2009, 08:52:07 pm
This is one of the snes rpg's (or whatever else you wanna call it, adventure game, etc.!) that I have not beaten on the snes...

Is this a pretty good game?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: creaothceann on October 10, 2009, 09:07:47 pm
Yep.

79.3% on GameFAQs, 76.5% on MobyGames, etc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_of_Evermore#Reception)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: BRPXQZME on October 10, 2009, 10:16:36 pm
It has the unfortunate distinction of being the lesser cousin of Secret of Mana. That doesn’t make it bad, it just makes it look bad by comparison. A balance hack for it is a really good thing.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Panzer88 on October 11, 2009, 02:07:49 am
This is one of the snes rpg's (or whatever else you wanna call it, adventure game, etc.!) that I have not beaten on the snes...

Is this a pretty good game?

yeah it's great, I had the luxury of playing it before Secret of Mana.

I actually prefer it to be honest and with the balance hack I'd say it's a must play.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Tallgeese on October 11, 2009, 12:11:42 pm
It has the unfortunate distinction of being the lesser cousin of Secret of Mana. That doesn’t make it bad, it just makes it look bad by comparison. A balance hack for it is a really good thing.

Lesser cousin my foot.

Evermore has better music, better writing, and I would agree it even looks better.

All Mana's got over it is more content.

You can't even call Mana balanced considering the infinite magic loop.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Dwedit on October 11, 2009, 05:16:25 pm
Can the balance hack be combined with the bug fix hacks (like fixing the silver sheath bug, and bazooka ammo bug fix)?  And do the bug fix hacks require a header or a headerless rom?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: SonofMog on October 11, 2009, 05:41:07 pm
He added those fixes in. And according to his topic in the Personal Projects sub-forum, it even works with the two player hack.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: BRPXQZME on October 11, 2009, 07:25:15 pm
Lesser cousin my foot.

Evermore has better music, better writing, and I would agree it even looks better.

All Mana's got over it is more content.

You can't even call Mana balanced considering the infinite magic loop.
You’re looking for a flame war where there isn’t one, buster.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: DarknessSavior on October 11, 2009, 08:16:45 pm
It has the unfortunate distinction of being the lesser cousin of Secret of Mana. That doesn’t make it bad, it just makes it look bad by comparison. A balance hack for it is a really good thing.

Lesser cousin my foot.

Evermore has better music, better writing, and I would agree it even looks better.

All Mana's got over it is more content.

You can't even call Mana balanced considering the infinite magic loop.

I think BRPXQZME's point is simply that it is known as being related to the Mana series, rather than being known for it's own merit. No one here is saying Evermore is a bad game. I myself have a copy and played through it dozens of times as a kid.

As I grew older and learned to romhack, I was actually surprised that the people who did this were American, and actually implemented a VWF into the game (whereas the team who worked on Secret of Mana did not).

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Panzer88 on October 11, 2009, 09:27:52 pm
in short, Evermore is a sweet game, if you haven't played it, PLAY IT.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Dwedit on October 12, 2009, 12:14:47 am
Fun fact: Final Fantasy Mystic Quest also has a Variable width font.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: DarknessSavior on October 12, 2009, 08:11:59 am
Fun fact: Final Fantasy Mystic Quest also has a Variable width font.

*laughs* No it doesn't. Trust me. I'm working on it.

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Tauwasser on October 12, 2009, 10:17:57 am
(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6241/mysticquestlegende000.png)

Dwedit is probably thinking about the versions that were released in Europe and the Americas. I'm not sure about the Japanese version, but I'd doubt it, since it's of little use.

cYa,

Tauwasser
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: DarknessSavior on October 12, 2009, 11:31:21 am
(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6241/mysticquestlegende000.png)

Dwedit is probably thinking about the versions that were released in Europe and the Americas. I'm not sure about the Japanese version, but I'd doubt it, since it's of little use.

cYa,

Tauwasser

Hmm. I guess it's just been a while since I played it. It does indeed have a VWF, but it's only for the dialog. Menus are still FWF.

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Lashiec on October 12, 2009, 11:54:42 am
Are there plans to make the hack compatible with the various European versions?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: andrewclunn on October 19, 2009, 10:32:23 am
Are there plans to make the hack compatible with the various European versions?
Why?  What does the UK version have that's different form the US version?  I mean an emulator will play either one.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Lashiec on October 19, 2009, 11:03:46 am
Why?  What does the UK version have that's different form the US version?  I mean an emulator will play either one.

There were another versions released in different countries of Europe (here we can make a joke about the UK not being Europe), those countries being Spain, Germany and France, and you can guess which is the main difference every version has compared with the US one.

Although the UK version has at least one thing that the US version does not have: It runs at 50 fps :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Validus on October 24, 2009, 05:25:46 am
I played this when it first came out as a kid. then replayed it back in 2005 when i was rich and living in a high rise (i am now poor and back with the parents). I never thought it needed a balance hack since it was beatable as a kid and i beat it as an adult.

great game though

7th saga THAT game needed a balance hack
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Bond697 on October 28, 2009, 06:16:16 pm
this is kinda random, but does anyone know exactly what the gourd does?  i only ask because i remember some commotion a few years ago over it because someone had done some serious work on it and thought they had figured it out.  i didn't pay much attention then, because i hadn't played evermore in years and had forgotten about that part.    anyone remember this?  i also found that gamefaqs topic from 2004 with the lead programmer but all he says about it is that none of them can remember what it does.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Tallgeese on October 29, 2009, 10:41:54 pm
It does nothing.

No really, it has no function.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: BRPXQZME on October 29, 2009, 11:19:37 pm
It’s like the banjo man on the cover of Phalanx... you know he’s just there and no-one knows what he’s doing there, but it’s a good icebreaker anyway.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: KingMike on October 30, 2009, 08:57:10 am
I remember reading in EGM years ago, that they asked Kemco about it.
They said the banjo guy was there just to get people to notice the game (even if just to ask "WTF?")
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: MKnightDH on November 08, 2009, 02:34:52 am
Well, I tried out the hack. I'm not out of world 1 yet, but let me comment anyway.

*Thraxx....dear God, I had to spam Flash/Hard Ball and use my items--including Pixie Dust--to beat that SOB. All those Maggots kept getting in the way. Then again, I think this is a problem on the regular game too.
*Viper Commander....well, at least I was responsible for messing up against him and not the game or the hack. Had I bothered to restock better after that PITA Thraxx, I would have been able to recover after being knocked down 28 HPs from 42ish HP, leaving me stuck having to spam alchemy.
*Those Raptors are a real concern, though. Have you ever heard of priority? Well, when I try fighting them as the dog, I keep getting freaking outprioritized. And of course, the dog walks slowly, so I can't very well evade the (b-word)s without running and having to wait even longer to attack as a result. Really, it would help if you could at least make the dog's world 1 form have high priority with his normal attack.
*I also realized that the charge-ups have natural advantages. Like the swords and axes get bigger hitboxes and the lances get thrown. Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: PresidentLeever on June 19, 2010, 10:53:42 am
Note to author: uffbulle is me, so you already replied to this :)

Sorry for digging up an old topic, but Secret of Evermore needs more love anyway. I'm currently playing the game again (original), and I''ve been thinking since I entered Nobilia that it sorely needs some tweaking to make it both more challenging and less grind based. This patch sounds awesome (on paper), I'm loving the changes!

A couple of questions before I play it; can I apply this to a 2-player patched version of the game? Has anyone played through all of it this way?

Also, to Ninakoru have you thought about balancing the actual spells more? For example the corrosion, drain 1 and regrowth spells have been pretty much useless for me while others like Speed and Crush get incredibly good after leveling them up a bit.

Other things I've picked up on throughout the game:
One thing that struck me about the bosses is that some of the later ones really could've used some spells. I mean even the first main boss could heal itself, in comparison bosses like the Footknight or Mini-taur are just pathetic in the original game.

It might be a good idea to have more ingredients available in shops from the mid-game on. I found myself lacking water and root specifically for a long period in Gothica as these are used in the cure spells. Just to prevent grinding or having to 'plan ahead' too much. Larger ingredient finds might be a more rewarding solution though.

And finally, (this is more of a convenience issue than anything and probably tougher to change); in many of the dungeons with narrow paths there are these small enemies that look like one could easily get past them, but instead you have to stop and kill each and everyone because their hitbox is too big. Tweaking its size would make these parts (pyramid, chessboard, dried up sewers) so much more enjoyable.

I'm sure you've thought about some of these and I'm really just curious to hear what you think. Thanks for making this patch :)



June 20, 2010, 02:09:55 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
So I beat the game with the balance & the 2p patch already :) It really is an awesome patch, made most of the game a lot more enjoyable for me. I got to the last boss at level 30 and without much grinding I only had level 2 weapons to fight with and totally ineffective alchemy spells. Here are some comments that I scribbled down while playing:

-Bosses: I'm happier with the Footknight now, as well as the Pyramid bosses which seemed more aggressive. Even the Vipers gave me some trouble this time.
Verminator, Evil Twin and Mungola also provided a decent challenge but otherwise I never felt as pushed as in the very first fight with the 4 raptors.

-The shared exp for weapons and spells seems very well balanced. However at one point, Lance had a higher level than the bronze spear and that was just when I got it.

-About the balance between the boy and dog:
The damage boost when receiving a new weapon is nice of course, but in Gothica you get new weapons too frequently to level them up smoothly, and the dog soon becomes much stronger than the boy.
In Omnitopia he becomes ungodly powerful as usual.

-Would it be possible to add a warning sound when the Dog has low HP as well? Since he is weaker now I kept losing him without noticing :P

-I was on a really tight budget during the Prehistoria part, having to mostly neglect the Flash spell and Dino equipment. The ingredient boost after Thraxx helps, but not enough.

-Rogues only give 10 jewels but are harder to fight than mad monks?
I would really appreciate it if you could provide charts for all the enemy stat changes.

-The pyramid mini-boss (sons of...) cast Confound on themselves

-The dragons in Gothica, and Aegis are still too easy. I think something drastic needs to be done to these like stronger spell resistance, being able to heal themselves or such.
It might just be the way they are designed, the battles are not very intense. Another one is Megataur, which could use some more spell resistance.

-Slow burn and Corrosion still kinda suck.

-Bone and mushroom are a little too rare I think. Water and Root are rare during Gothica, but this did make me use healing items and call beads more so maybe it's a good thing.

-The rightmost house on the second floor of Ebon Keep has a treasure chest that I couldn't open.

-The boss right before Carlton is harder than Carlton himself, because of its spells and quick movement.


Probably 2-player patch derivative:

-The game sometimes goes quiet and freezes soon after if I use fastforward while the music changes in a cutscene. Happened when I met fire eyes and before the pig race.

-Encountered a bug where the boy would freeze inside some rubbery right above fire eyes village. I had to 'plug in' player two and go back.

-The pyramid gets really buggy at times, making you reunite with the dog just from walking down stairs, or switching the boy and the dog when walking up stairs.
It's fixed by walking back and forth again.

Also in the pyramid, the new axe here doesn't take down the walls unless you do it in a specific order.

Thanks again for the patch!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: StreetTrash on June 22, 2010, 08:48:14 pm
It’s like the banjo man on the cover of Phalanx... you know he’s just there and no-one knows what he’s doing there, but it’s a good icebreaker anyway.
I just bought a copy of Phalanx the other day without ever having really played it just because of that banjo toting mountain man.  Seems like their marketing tactics are still paying off some 15 years later.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: Ninakoru on October 20, 2011, 04:05:27 pm
Sorry me too for digging up an old topic, but as the patch author I need to respond, today I was looking n the net what was said about my patch and found this ^^

I played this when it first came out as a kid. then replayed it back in 2005 when i was rich and living in a high rise (i am now poor and back with the parents). I never thought it needed a balance hack since it was beatable as a kid and i beat it as an adult.

This patch is about the game is easy at some times, not hard. Most of the time I rise the difficulty, on the most difficult parts I tried to maintain it.

Those Raptors are a real concern, though. Have you ever heard of priority? Well, when I try fighting them as the dog, I keep getting freaking outprioritized. And of course, the dog walks slowly, so I can't very well evade the (b-word)s without running and having to wait even longer to attack as a result. Really, it would help if you could at least make the dog's world 1 form have high priority with his normal attack.

Well, guessing priority would have been not too hard but I didn't found that specially annoying...

A couple of questions before I play it; can I apply this to a 2-player patched version of the game? Has anyone played through all of it this way?

Yes is compatible, though you have to deal with 2nd player patch known issues.

Quote
Also, to Ninakoru have you thought about balancing the actual spells more? For example the corrosion, drain 1 and regrowth spells have been pretty much useless for me while others like Speed and Crush get incredibly good after leveling them up a bit.

Yep I thought about that but I couldn't find how to mod "spell stats"

Quote
One thing that struck me about the bosses is that some of the later ones really could've used some spells. I mean even the first main boss could heal itself, in comparison bosses like the Footknight or Mini-taur are just pathetic in the original game.

Agree, but again, I were not able to mod bosses attacks, behaviours or spells, only stats.

Quote
It might be a good idea to have more ingredients available in shops from the mid-game on. I found myself lacking water and root specifically for a long period in Gothica as these are used in the cure spells. Just to prevent grinding or having to 'plan ahead' too much. Larger ingredient finds might be a more rewarding solution though.

As you can rise spells using other ones, lack of ingredients were less annoying, and somewhat encourage the player yo use new spells, therefore I decided to not change "shops".

Quote
And finally, (this is more of a convenience issue than anything and probably tougher to change); in many of the dungeons with narrow paths there are these small enemies that look like one could easily get past them, but instead you have to stop and kill each and everyone because their hitbox is too big. Tweaking its size would make these parts (pyramid, chessboard, dried up sewers) so much more enjoyable.

Well, I had not intention to make the game a way you can easily skip monsters, that was definitely not on my mind.

Quote
So I beat the game with the balance & the 2p patch already :) It really is an awesome patch, made most of the game a lot more enjoyable for me. I got to the last boss at level 30 and without much grinding I only had level 2 weapons to fight with and totally ineffective alchemy spells.

I am happy you had fun of the game, even if you have rushed through it. My weapon and magic levelling mechanics are also useful so you don't have to grind so much to level weapons, you can get the final stage with level 2 final weapons without grinding.


Quote
Bosses: I'm happier with the Footknight now, as well as the Pyramid bosses which seemed more aggressive. Even the Vipers gave me some trouble this time.
Verminator, Evil Twin and Mungola also provided a decent challenge but otherwise I never felt as pushed as in the very first fight with the 4 raptors.

Yeah, as you have less evasion as you level up, bosses seem more aggressive, and that's what I intended. Yep, the raptors is an optional win, so I decided to not change that battle at all. Is possibly the most hard boss battle.

Quote
About the balance between the boy and dog:
The damage boost when receiving a new weapon is nice of course, but in Gothica you get new weapons too frequently to level them up smoothly, and the dog soon becomes much stronger than the boy.
In Omnitopia he becomes ungodly powerful as usual.

Yep, the dog is a physical powerhouse, but is not overpowered the way it was on the unpatched version. In Omnitopia it was meant to be overpowered, and still is it, but a much less than in the original.

Quote
Would it be possible to add a warning sound when the Dog has low HP as well? Since he is weaker now I kept losing him without noticing :P

Well I did think about that too, but I wanted to keep it that way so you have to watch for dog's life, or keep reviving him.

Quote
I was on a really tight budget during the Prehistoria part, having to mostly neglect the Flash spell and Dino equipment. The ingredient boost after Thraxx helps, but not enough.

Yep, if you want to buy everything, a little grinding was required, but is not that important anyways, totally optional after all.

Quote
Rogues only give 10 jewels but are harder to fight than mad monks?
I would really appreciate it if you could provide charts for all the enemy stat changes.

Theres an excel sheet with stat changes. The game have monsters that give more money, other more experience. Rogues give lots of EXP, while Monks give Money and little exp. I decided to keep it that way with some little balance changes.

Quote
The pyramid mini-boss (sons of...) cast Confound on themselves

Uh, maube has to do with the 2p patch.

Quote
-The dragons in Gothica, and Aegis are still too easy. I think something drastic needs to be done to these like stronger spell resistance, being able to heal themselves or such.
It might just be the way they are designed, the battles are not very intense. Another one is Megataur, which could use some more spell resistance.

Yep, for the gothica bosses, some are too easy even changing stats, as I was not able to change behaviour or spells as i said before :(

Megataur maintain low magic resistance on purpose. He's on the physical side after all, and that made sense to me.

Quote
The rightmost house on the second floor of Ebon Keep has a treasure chest that I couldn't open.

You had to not open a previous chest or something like that. It worked that way on purpose.

Quote
The boss right before Carlton is harder than Carlton himself, because of its spells and quick movement.

Uh, maybe, depending on your way of fighting it.


Quote
Probably 2-player patch derivative

All of them are known bugs. On piramids is recommended to switch the 2p off.

Quote
Thanks again for the patch!  :thumbsup:

You're welcome, thanks for the feedback :)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: mrjojo1267 on June 20, 2013, 08:30:45 am
Hey Ninakoru,

Thanks for the patch, brilliant work, liked the new alterations.

If you ever come back to this forum, maybe you can tell me exactly which programmes u used to edit the game? Or anyone (if they have a clue!)

I'm researching on how to edit snes games, particularly Secret of Evermore.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: justin3009 on June 20, 2013, 10:19:02 pm
Geiger's SNES9X Debugger is a common choice along with bSNES
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Secret of Evermore Gameplay Balance hack released
Post by: mrjojo1267 on June 24, 2013, 11:20:35 am
Many thanks justin3009, i will look into those  :thumbsup: