Romhacking.net

Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 05:51:06 pm

Title: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 05:51:06 pm
FF4 Machine translation using DeepL

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl6.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl7.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl8.png)

I previously machine-translated FF4 using Google translate (and even wrote a book about the experience). A supposedly more sophisticated machine translation engine named DeepL recently added Japanese support, so I gave it a shot. The result is still pretty bad, but it's not as wacky as the previous Google one. I started making a patch for this DeepL translation but ran out of time/energy about 80% in. The game should be beatable, just the main menus will look barfy.

This patch also includes some small improvement hacks that I had previously created for the FF2c project below.

Download: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/funky%20fantasy%20iv%20deepl%202020%20machine%20translation%20patch%20v1.ips (needs FF4 (J) v1.1 unheadered ROM)



FF2c Translation

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b6.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b7.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b8.png)

Some years back, a Japanese fan did a small remake of FF2 using the FF4 engine. Most of the original assets are still the same as FF4 too - all the town layouts, music, enemy sprites, etc. It's a pretty cool patch though, so I've been slowly translating it + hacking stuff just as a side hobby. Anyway, I just thought I'd share some pics of it here for now. I'm pulling a lot of the translated text from FF2 GBA's English translation, but there's still a lot I need to translate from scratch too.

The Japanese site is long gone but I've uploaded a copy of the final Japanese patch here: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/FFC2_v1.01.zip

UPDATE: The patch is out now! http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on April 21, 2020, 06:32:01 pm
Oo!! That FF2c hack sounds really intriguing.
That's the kind of thing I'd love to do for FF1 and FF3 using FF5 as a base.
But if I could rig a class system in FF4, that could be pretty swank too.
Anyway, I look forward to trying out your translation of it!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ArkthePieKing on April 21, 2020, 06:59:05 pm
Oh that's so nifty! Does it use a traditional leveling system or FF2's proto-SaGa style leveling?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 08:40:36 pm
It uses the same battle system, experience system, etc. as FF4. The original hack uses very little (if any) assembly reprogramming, it's more like the sort of game you could make if you used the usual FF4 hacking tools.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on April 21, 2020, 09:15:04 pm
Sounds great to me!
I always found it to be an odd game.
Of course, knowing that much of it was designed by the creator of Mana series puts it into perspective.
On the other hand that just makes me want to see what a more traditional version of the game would have been like.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on April 27, 2020, 08:37:39 pm
This is a really cool topic and idea Mato. I really enjoyed your playthrough of Funky Fantasy IV and treasured the book just as much. Perhaps these sorts of machine learning programs can make untranslated games a bit more understandable in various ways.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 30, 2020, 02:39:32 am
I find these projects are REALLY interesting. I know you said in your notes that your custom tools are still being worked on. Any chance they could be used to let's say port an existing script into it?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on April 30, 2020, 05:36:27 pm
I tweeted to you about that FF2c hack a year or two ago, and it's super cool to see you've been messing around with it on the side! It's definitely no T-edition kind of hack, but I love the idea of recreating one game in another game engine so it was a treat to discover it :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 01, 2020, 05:00:01 pm
I know you said in your notes that your custom tools are still being worked on. Any chance they could be used to let's say port an existing script into it?

Yeah, although for that purpose they're probably not particularly any better than Atlas, etc. stuff. I think the only thing my toolset has is some ASM that allows the three banks of text to be expanded + relocated. Everything else is standard stuff.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on May 01, 2020, 05:08:20 pm
Just want to quickly drop in and say that I've never seen this before and this is amazing stuff! :)

The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

I look forward to checking these out and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:

Cheers!  :beer:

8-bit fan
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 01, 2020, 05:51:01 pm
Yeah, although for that purpose they're probably not particularly any better than Atlas, etc. stuff. I think the only thing my toolset has is some ASM that allows the three banks of text to be expanded + relocated. Everything else is standard stuff.

That would actually perfect if it works properly enough. I ask because I would love to find an easier way to port Namingway Edition to a Japanese ROM but expanding the text in places sounds fantastic.

Just want to quickly drop in and say that I've never seen this before and this is amazing stuff! :)

The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

I look forward to checking these out and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:

Cheers!  :beer:

8-bit fan

I want to try out FF2C as well. I have a soft spot for that game despite it getting a lot of flak for its leveling system.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on May 01, 2020, 07:29:21 pm
I want to try out FF2C as well. I have a soft spot for that game despite it getting a lot of flak for its leveling system.
Same here. I've always 'liked' FF2 despite all that. So it's great to see a recreation using another FF game's engine! :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 04, 2020, 01:03:50 am
The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

As far as I can tell, it's got the entire story, script, and world map from FF2.

Town layouts, dungeons, etc. are all still from FF4. Music, enemy graphics, etc. are all the same as FF4 too.

There's extra content too, like you can fight Cecil as a secret boss, for example.

The FF2 game with FF4's battle system really clicked with me when I tried it out, which made me want to share it in English.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Bregalad on May 04, 2020, 04:33:21 am
It's funny the DeepL translation is so bad, because DeepL is actually very good at doing translations between French and English, it's nothing like the old machine language translation who sucked, it's almost perfect; the only exception being ambiguous words or grammar who can't be guessed from the context.

So I suppose jap->en translation is more difficult to do than en<->fr for a computer.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: aqualung on May 04, 2020, 05:04:39 am
It's funny the DeepL translation is so bad, because DeepL is actually very good at doing translations between French and English, it's nothing like the old machine language translation who sucked, it's almost perfect; the only exception being ambiguous words or grammar who can't be guessed from the context.

So I suppose jap->en translation is more difficult to do than en<->fr for a computer.

DeepL is actually fairly accurate with Japanese as well, provided the text is rich in kanji. An example (which may not be the best one, but some of the testings I've made have made my jaw drop at how accurate they looked): https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E9%96%A2%E9%80%A3%E3%81%AE%E5%A0%B1%E9%81%93%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E6%95%B0%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E3%81%AE%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%8C%E3%83%A1%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%81%AB%E7%99%BB%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%80%81%E8%87%AA%E8%BA%AB%E3%81%AE%E7%9F%A5%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%92%E8%BF%B0%E3%81%B9%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82%E3%81%97%E3%81%8B%E3%81%97%E3%80%81%E6%9C%80%E5%89%8D%E7%B7%9A%E3%81%A7%E6%84%9F%E6%9F%93%E8%80%85%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A1%E3%81%A8%E6%8E%A5%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%AE%E8%A9%B1%E3%82%92%E3%81%98%E3%81%A3%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8A%E3%81%A8%E8%81%9E%E3%81%8F%E6%A9%9F%E4%BC%9A%E3%81%AF%E6%84%8F%E5%A4%96%E3%81%A8%E5%B0%91%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E3%80%82%E5%AE%9F%E9%9A%9B%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E3%81%9D%E3%81%AE%E6%82%A3%E8%80%85%E3%82%92%E8%A8%BA%E3%81%9F%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E3%80%8C%E5%B0%82%E9%96%80%E5%AE%B6%E3%80%8D%EF%BC%88%E4%B8%AD%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E8%80%85%E3%82%82%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%EF%BC%89%E3%81%AE%E3%82%AA%E3%83%94%E3%83%8B%E3%82%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E3%81%BB%E3%81%86%E3%81%8C%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E6%B5%81%E5%B8%83%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82%E7%8F%BE%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%B0%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E7%B4%B9%E4%BB%8B%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E6%B2%BB%E7%99%82%E7%8F%BE%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%AE%E8%8B%A6%E5%A2%83%E3%81%A8%E3%81%84%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A8%E3%81%93%E3%82%8D%E3%81%AB%E9%99%90%E5%AE%9A%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%82%88%E3%81%86%E3%81%AB%E3%82%82%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82

If FFIV's translation is so weird, it's mostly because of the lack of kanji to provide context and eliminate ambiguity.

PD: here's another one. These are all things that pop up on my twitter from time to time:

https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E6%9C%80%E8%BF%91%E3%80%81%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E6%B2%B3%E5%8D%97%E7%9C%81%E9%84%AD%E5%B7%9E%E3%81%AE%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E3%81%AB%E5%A5%B3%E6%80%A7%EF%BC%92%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%8C%E3%82%81%E3%81%BE%E3%81%84%E3%82%84%E8%84%B1%E5%8A%9B%E6%84%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A9%E3%82%92%E8%A8%B4%E3%81%88%E5%85%A5%E9%99%A2%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E3%81%B8%E3%81%AE%E8%AD%A6%E6%88%92%E3%81%8C%E7%B6%9A%E3%81%8F%E4%B8%AD%E3%80%81%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E3%81%AFCT%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AB%E3%82%88%E3%82%8B%E6%A4%9C%E6%9F%BB%E3%82%92%E8%A1%8C%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A8%E3%81%93%E3%82%8D%E3%80%81%E6%82%A3%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E8%82%BA%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8A%E3%82%AC%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9%E7%8A%B6%E3%81%AE%E7%99%BD%E3%81%84%E5%BD%B1%E3%81%8C%E8%A6%8B%E3%81%A4%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82%E3%81%9D%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AF%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95%E3%81%AB%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E8%82%BA%E7%82%8E%E3%81%AE%E7%89%B9%E5%BE%B4%E3%81%A8%E4%B8%80%E8%87%B4%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%82%82%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A0%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%822%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%AF%E7%99%BA%E7%86%B1%E3%82%84%E3%80%81%E3%81%9B%E3%81%8D%E3%80%81%E5%91%BC%E5%90%B8%E5%9B%B0%E9%9B%A3%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A9%E3%81%AE%E7%97%87%E7%8A%B6%E3%81%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%9F%E3%82%81%E3%80%81%E8%A8%BA%E5%AF%9F%E3%82%92%E5%8F%97%E3%81%91%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%AF%E7%99%BA%E7%86%B1%E5%A4%96%E6%9D%A5%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F%E3%80%81%E4%B8%80%E8%88%AC%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%96%E6%9D%A5%E3%80%82%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%82%89%E3%81%AF%E9%A9%9A%E3%81%8D%E3%80%81%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E5%86%85%E3%81%AB%E7%B7%8A%E5%BC%B5%E3%81%8C%E8%B5%B0%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 15, 2020, 07:36:42 pm
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal1.png)

I want to add an 8x8 crystal icon to this hack, but I'm terrible at art, as seen here. Can anyone come up with a better 8x8 crystal icon? The only colors available are white, gray, and black.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on May 15, 2020, 11:57:28 pm
Oh my gosh, I needed a good laugh.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl1.png)

Of course, DeepL! Who could forget the intrepid crewman of the Red Wings, He!

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl2.png)

Anarchy in the UK, huh? Rough, innit

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl3.png)

Certainly, not the dogs and cats you originally thought had done it. Intrigue!

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl5.png)

Sometimes, in life, you gotta just say what the hell, and unlock the wind farm cave.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl6.png)

What is it with DeepL translating Japanese into what sounds like English Punk Rock Lyrics?

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl7.png)

... No, I can get with DeepL here. It's probably what I said when I first saw it.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl8.png)

Hey, we've been looking for that! Must've been those anarchists in the UK that took it...

The port of FF2's story into FF4's world looks quite interesting too. If some additional work can be done to it, that sounds like a corking good time.

I'm gonna go ahead and be that guy, by saying that I don't think anyone is gonna miss Kawazu's leveling system, all that much, though...  ::)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Polinym on May 16, 2020, 12:19:20 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal1.png)

I want to add an 8x8 crystal icon to this hack, but I'm terrible at art, as seen here. Can anyone come up with a better 8x8 crystal icon? The only colors available are white, gray, and black.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i5MDP6RHkNk/Xr9pVhWj_VI/AAAAAAAAAIc/W0tOzCu0pc0ovBLHvR11vUdWUagnSA_swCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/crystal.png)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvL0a4j9R_8/Xr9pVnCgJSI/AAAAAAAAAIY/BgcllObYaxMwqyA8iaUTmxME0BnFl0NPACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/crystal_large.png)

How's this?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 16, 2020, 01:22:30 am
Wow, that's amazing! I didn't think it would even be possible, you're a wizard  :beer:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal2.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 29, 2020, 07:39:05 pm
I just noticed that when you start out the game (this hack, not vanilla FF4) everyone has "0x" listed as part of their defense stat:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/stats.png)

Does this mean that armor has no helpful effect until it eventually reaches 1x? And how does that number increase anyway?

I checked the original FF4 and you start out with 1x there.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on May 30, 2020, 09:12:10 pm
FFIV is obtuse at times and this is one of them.

Before I started modding FFIV I always thought the 0x5 and all of that actually meant that the defense stat itself was being multiplied, but it means something Completely different, compared to how Attack Multipliers are calculated.

0x means the amount of times that your evasion will be taken into account to evade an attack. It's been a while so this might be wrong, Every 8 Agility will increase your Defense multiplier by 1 from there. This is how they balanced it so Edge would be an evasive fellow, while making sure the tanks (Cecil/Kain) have some actual ability to shrug off *some* damage. This is why Agility is king in FFIV, it increases your Attack/Defense/Speed/Evasion, all from one stat. You will notice in FFIV even Tellah starts with 8 Agility, hence he has one multiplier. However Rydia and Porom do not have enough Agility to reach even 1 defense multiplier and it looks the same with Firion there (great transfer of his portrait by the way, to the hack creator!)

For Magic Defense Multiplier is less straight forward. Tellah starts with x1, which implies that you need 16/Wisdom&Will to have a Magic Defense Multiplier, but its not so simple. it has to be 32 of either or both stats. So say if you have 16 Wisdom+Will you will have x1. If you have 48 Wisdom and 32 Will, you will have x2, because you haven't reached the new threshold of 96 to reach x3 Magic Evasion multipliers.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: reconstructingmana on May 31, 2020, 05:37:00 am
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font. 
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on May 31, 2020, 05:44:52 am
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font.

I think that's because replacing a font is one of the simplest tasks of any that this particular hobby entails. Next step up is editing the pallette.

There was a time (it might still be true honestly) when pallette-only and font-only mods were not actually allowed on this site, for that reason, I think?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on May 31, 2020, 02:02:37 pm
Mato, the FF2c hack really intrigues me. When I finish my FF6 project, I'd be willing to put in some work on this. Would you want someone to come along and work on the town/dungeon maps?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 31, 2020, 03:34:23 pm
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font.

Yeah, I did it purposely here, I wanted it to have a different feel from FF4 and for screenshots of it to stand out from screenshots of FF4. Otherwise the hack would've used the original Japanese version's English font, which would still be considered a "new font" in most players' eyes outside of Japan.

Mato, the FF2c hack really intrigues me. When I finish my FF6 project, I'd be willing to put in some work on this. Would you want someone to come along and work on the town/dungeon maps?

My plan is to release my translation, fix any tiny bugs afterwards, and then let others modify it further on their own if they want. I kind of like the creative weirdness that comes from all the re-used caves, towns, etc. but I can see how recreating all the original FF2 ones would be really fun too. I also feel the game could REALLY use the original NES enemy FF2 graphics touched up to look like they fit with FF4. Someone tried to do it but with GBA sprites, and it feels out of place to me:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy000.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy002.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy004.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy005.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on May 31, 2020, 07:20:03 pm
I don't know... I think those GBA sprites look pretty great!

Also this fellow/lady chose Leonora (the best new character from FFIV:TAY) as a holdover party member, so they earn points from me for that alone.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on May 31, 2020, 09:46:58 pm
I mean, if you have a 5th character, wouldn't it just make sense for Leila to stick with you? Or maybe someone could upgrade Paul to be finally playable.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 31, 2020, 09:48:10 pm
I don't know... I think those GBA sprites look pretty great!
Yeah, it's pretty hit or miss, I think the GBA sprites without outlines and/or gradient shading are kinda weird, but that's just me. I'm hoping other hackers will take this initial FF2 remake even further/in diff directions though  :thumbsup:

Also, thanks for the stats explanation, that's some complicated stuff I never realized even after playing it a ton back in the day.


I mean, if you have a 5th character, wouldn't it just make sense for Leila to stick with you? Or maybe someone could upgrade Paul to be finally playable.  :laugh:

Actually, you can freely switch the 5th party member between Leila, Leonora, Minwu, and Gordon (maybe another?) near the end of the game.

June 01, 2020, 05:53:25 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm doing menu stuff right now and I noticed a string in the Japanese version that I'm not sure I've seen used before. In the English FF2 ROM it's translated here as "FAILED". There's also a string in there that says "Recover HP" that I'm not sure I've seen:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/failed.PNG)

Does anyone know what these are, when they occur, etc.? They're right there among strings that get used when you use items/magic on people outside of battle, but I don't know how to trigger them.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: KillerBob on June 01, 2020, 07:55:50 pm
Does anyone know what these are, when they occur, etc.? They're right there among strings that get used when you use items/magic on people outside of battle, but I don't know how to trigger them.
Noticed these myself when doing stuff for "the cutting room floor" page. That particular HPを かいふくします/"Recover HP." message is definitely unused. And I'm pretty sure that うまくいかないようです/"Failed......" string is also one of those unused item menu strings. もちものがいっぱいですけ/"Items full." is another one, I think. If I recall correctly, the final game has an audio cue instead.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: reconstructingmana on June 02, 2020, 06:26:53 pm
I think that's because replacing a font is one of the simplest tasks of any that this particular hobby entails. Next step up is editing the pallette.

There was a time (it might still be true honestly) when pallette-only and font-only mods were not actually allowed on this site, for that reason, I think?

Do you feel that using original fonts comes off as "amateurish"?  For Secret of Mana, I like the using the idea of the original font for nostalgia, and it seems to get the job done well enough. 

My plan is to release my translation, fix any tiny bugs afterwards, and then let others modify it further on their own if they want. I kind of like the creative weirdness that comes from all the re-used caves, towns, etc. but I can see how recreating all the original FF2 ones would be really fun too. I also feel the game could REALLY use the original NES enemy FF2 graphics touched up to look like they fit with FF4.

I will second that I am greatly looking forward to this too!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on June 02, 2020, 11:47:14 pm
Do you feel that using original fonts comes off as "amateurish"?  For Secret of Mana, I like the using the idea of the original font for nostalgia, and it seems to get the job done well enough.

Quite the opposite. Even if the font the original game had wasn't the greatest, it's better to have something familiar that worked the first time (mostly anyway) than to experiment with weird stuff needlessly. One of those 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kind of things.

And yeah I learned this lesson the hard way, myself, on my very first submission to the site. ;) Not telling, though.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 03, 2020, 02:31:23 am
I want to add a single sign to a room/map (the tower of wish/prayer room in standard ff4) but am having a very hard time finding any documentation on the relevant data. I could swear I saw something about NPC text placement/assignment in one of the zillion docs several years ago but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone know where I can learn more about this stuff?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 03, 2020, 09:51:11 am
Hmm, that should be well within the power of FF4ks...(remembers it's Japanese version.) Nevermind.

There is another editor which might help, maybe... Everything's editor.

https://everything8215.github.io/ff6tools/ff6tools.html

Despite the name, it actually has a lot of FF support and there is one for the FFIV Japanese version, it should have most of the bells and whistles of FF4kster. I think.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 03, 2020, 02:31:16 pm
Yeah, I had actually tried to use ff4kster to modify an English ROM so I could pinpoint which bytes were being changed when I made a simple NPC-related change... but then a file comparison showed it changed like 5000 bytes :o

I'm more interested in the underlying data so I don't need to rely on tools, so I also consulted the source code for ff4kster, but it's not well documented and for some reason the relevant addresses it references didn't get hit by any reads, even after converting between address formats.

The Javascript code in the FF6Tools page looks promising though, thanks!

June 03, 2020, 06:56:43 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm playing around with FF6Tools now and it actually loads the Japanese FF2 remake without any trouble at all. I'm still unsure of what to do though - I can't seem to find any way to move NPCs, add new/move existing entries, or anything else using this editor.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 04, 2020, 12:35:22 am
Ah, did you click on Triggers? If you go to Triggers, then the map editing function becomes a targeting function. You can click on an NPC, see which event is attached to them and edit the text all from there. It's really convenient!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 04, 2020, 05:20:55 am
Ooh, thanks, that helped a ton!

I got my new thing hooked up and working, except I ran into two problems:


Things are progressing nicely otherwise. Another thing I want to add is an intro screen explaining what the original Japanese hack is + tries to do, but that's another technical hurdle for another time.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on June 04, 2020, 09:19:38 pm
Late to the party, but...
I think the GBA enemy graphics are a good base, but they do need some finagling to match the style of the rest of the game batter.
Conversely, maybe it would be worth it to port over some of the GBA graphics for the rest of the game?

Still love the whole Idea of this hack. I gush for it! :GUSH: :GUSH: :GUSH:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 06, 2020, 06:20:20 pm
Say, has anyone ever made an "overworld music doesn't start over from the beginning after a battle" hack? I'm doing some testing now and it's something I really wish the game had, especially when the song is so long and good.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 06, 2020, 09:16:20 pm
I don't think that trend started until FFVI, I have never heard of a hack for that, but in theory it should be as simple as making the game remember the point in the sequence it was when a battle began. Unfortunately music programming is gobbledygook to me. However Chillyfeez may know a thing about it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 02, 2020, 05:54:05 pm
I'm getting really close to finishing this finally. I need some help again though - this time I want an 8x8 treasure chest icon, but I'm not happy with the one I quickly made:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/chest.png)

(The colors in the image above are the only ones available)

Can anyone help? I can hack bits but I can't draw at all  :crazy:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ArkthePieKing on July 02, 2020, 09:32:06 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/KVNZm5E.png)

How about something like that? Colors are a little wrong but I think you get the idea lol
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 03, 2020, 05:44:37 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/LsSX16i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1cy9l2v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9hti6jb.png)

I tried one too.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 04, 2020, 05:21:18 pm
Here's my take.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Obs7D3.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 04, 2020, 08:38:15 pm
Thanks guys, I'll try the icons out soon and see which one works the best.

For now, I rearranged all of my new code + data to be compatible with the alternate enemy patch that changes enemy graphics & names. Now I can easily build a translation for the original Japanese patch and the alternate Japanese patch. Here are some screenshots of the alternate enemies in battle:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f6.png)

When I finally finish this project and release it, I'll probably release two patches and let players choose whichever they want to play.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 04, 2020, 11:37:27 pm
Damn. Nice work there, Mato.
I'm chompin' at the bit to play this one.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 05, 2020, 06:20:04 pm
I always wanted to play FF2 with a more traditional system behind it. This is coming along impressively well.
Will it contain the PSP extras where you fight the reincarnated Emperor? I could be misremembering, but I think they added a few things.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 05, 2020, 06:41:32 pm
I'm not very familiar with the original FF2 and don't know much about the PSP version at all, but in this hack you do fight the emperor at least 3 times, and 1 emperor-themed boss guarding a bunch of chests.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 06, 2020, 01:12:07 am
In the PSP and GBA versions there is an after game scenario after you defeat the emperor in the underworld or whatever. Then you play as all the characters that died fighting the empire against a "holy" version of the emperor. It's basically a bonus dungeon called "Soul of Rebirth".
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 06, 2020, 01:52:56 am
Yeah that's what I mean. Would be cool to have that, too.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 06, 2020, 05:24:09 pm
While testing out the alternate enemy patch I've noticed a couple enemies load the wrong tile graphics while the tile layouts are fine. It seems to be a problem with the Japanese enemy patch and not my stuff, so I gotta figure out how to fix them. Unfortunately, existing tools don't seem to work given the nature of the enemy patch.

Also, while testing the alternate enemy patch, I ran into a weird problem where the airship doesn't fly over lava. I'm assuming an event flag got messed up somewhere - does anyone have more info? If I can set that flag manually that'd fix the problem hopefully.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 06, 2020, 11:04:35 pm
The event flag is set in FF4 in the Dwarven Castle when Cid coats the underside of the airship with Mithril. Prior to that, the airship can't fly over lava. I'd bet that event flag just wasn't set.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 07, 2020, 03:09:30 pm
I managed to find and fix the lava thing - it was a problem with the original Japanese patch. The Japanese patch actually has a bunch of little issues here and there, and I try to fix them when I can but I don't intend to fix them all (mostly because I don't know how).

Anyway, now to figure out these monster graphic problems

July 09, 2020, 01:37:39 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm now fixing up some problems with battle groups that exist in the Japanese graphics enhancement patch - lots of enemies overlapping, appearing too far down or too far high, stuff like that. I've noticed that when I change the formation ID that a battle group uses, it can sometimes get tricky to select a specific enemy with the cursor.

It's hard to explain but I assume this is something that other FF4 hackers have encountered before. Is there a way to change the "enemy selecting method" to match any given formation? I guess if I can't figure it out, I'll just change the formations and leave a note in the readme that says "the enhanced graphics version will make it hard to select specific enemies sometimes".

July 09, 2020, 07:38:59 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I couldn't find this cursor stuff documented anywhere, but I saw it was an option on FF6Tools, so after some work I figured it out and managed to fix the cursor weirdness in the original Japanese gfx patch, hooray!

Now I need to figure out how to fix the gfx enhancement issues when summoning the two new summons. After that, I think my work with the gfx enhancement stuff will finally be over and I can get back to finalizing stuff in the main translation patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 13, 2020, 01:56:47 am
Hmm, two new summons you say? Does that mean something was replaced? If it's size or graphic issues with these summons, Chillyfeez should know all about that. If he is unavailable to help you though he wrote an excellent piece on slickproductions about it.

http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.0

Hopefully this will help a bit. (It is so nice to have this archive of excellent information back!)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 14, 2020, 11:53:09 am
I’m sure I’m missing A LOT here, so I apologize in advance if I’m totally off, but wouldn’t it make more sense to use FFV (or even VI) as the base since the graphics are a bit better and they use four characters in battles instead of five? I know this is just a translation of a hack that was already done, so maybe the reason is that simple.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 14, 2020, 01:30:52 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: reconstructingmana on July 14, 2020, 01:39:24 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

I definitely would be on board for an FF1 remake in a FF6 engine!  I can even think of ways to tackle things like canoe travel (make it similar to the Lete River) and cave design. 
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 14, 2020, 02:21:30 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

Yep, I have a feeling you’re right. Sometimes it’s all about what you enjoy and what motivates you. I’ve always wished there had been a FFI-III SNES collection, kind of like what they did with the Dragon Quest series. It would be cool for fans to make that happen all these years later.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 pm
I think FFI in the FFV engine makes a lot of sense, since V is set up well for the job system. You could always look into William Kage's SixEngine too. I've thought that it looked a lot easier to use than doing a romhack.

For this project, FFII in FFIV's engine makes a lot of sense. FFII was the black sheep of the series, but the characters map almost perfectly to the abilities from FFIV.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 15, 2020, 04:35:59 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2c-trigger.png)

When you step on this tile, it pops up a question box. The problem is that you can accidentally avoid it and never trigger it at all. I'd like to move the trigger tile down one to avoid this, but I'm having trouble. I know how to modify the trigger data itself, but it appears there's some other piece of data that tells the game "hey this is a trigger you just stepped on, look through the triggers list!".

It's hard to find clear documentation all in one place, so I'm hoping someone will know how this works. I'm fairly certain it'd just be a one byte change... hopefully?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 15, 2020, 04:54:39 am
I think FFI in the FFV engine makes a lot of sense, since V is set up well for the job system.

I have had that thought many times before.
It would probably be the best fit.
There are way more location maps than would be needed so implementing the extra dungeons would be a snap, too.
Plus having all those world maps and underwater maps fit perfectly with my thoughts on how the original should be expanded with more content.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 15, 2020, 07:27:46 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2c-trigger.png)

When you step on this tile, it pops up a question box. The problem is that you can accidentally avoid it and never trigger it at all. I'd like to move the trigger tile down one to avoid this, but I'm having trouble. I know how to modify the trigger data itself, but it appears there's some other piece of data that tells the game "hey this is a trigger you just stepped on, look through the triggers list!".

It's hard to find clear documentation all in one place, so I'm hoping someone will know how this works. I'm fairly certain it'd just be a one byte change... hopefully?

You are correct Mato. There is a property in the tile itself which checks whether it is triggerable or not. This too can be easily modified with FF4kster in the "edit Tilesets" section.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 15, 2020, 03:07:18 pm
Thanks, after digging around in bits and bytes I realized it was too much hassle to deal with so I just put an empty treasure chest in that one spot to avoid any possibility of accidentally avoiding the spot. A much simpler and safer solution  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: KingMike on July 15, 2020, 04:16:43 pm
In the PSP and GBA versions there is an after game scenario after you defeat the emperor in the underworld or whatever. Then you play as all the characters that died fighting the empire against a "holy" version of the emperor. It's basically a bonus dungeon called "Soul of Rebirth".

I hadn't played the bonus content in either GBA game.
I just remember when FF1+2A was first announced and people were like "WTF is Phantom Train doing in this game? That announcement has to be an April Fools joke!" I'm guessing that was FF1's bonus dungeons which I don't think were meant to have logical connection to the game (I mean, the first one used FF3's intro dungeon for a couple of its maps, kind of a troll move at that point :D )
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 15, 2020, 08:58:52 pm
I hadn't played the bonus content in either GBA game.
I just remember when FF1+2A was first announced and people were like "WTF is Phantom Train doing in this game? That announcement has to be an April Fools joke!" I'm guessing that was FF1's bonus dungeons which I don't think were meant to have logical connection to the game (I mean, the first one used FF3's intro dungeon for a couple of its maps, kind of a troll move at that point :D )

You know, it always bothered me that FF3 (as in the NES game) never got the GBA treatment. I don't really like the 3D remakes (unless you are talking about FF6, which was at one point in the past FF3 on western territories?).
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Dark Phoenix on July 15, 2020, 10:23:41 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

I remember seeing a guy who was trying to do FF4 in FF6 using the FF6 hacker tools as well...
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 16, 2020, 09:01:09 am
You know, it always bothered me that FF3 (as in the NES game) never got the GBA treatment. I don't really like the 3D remakes (unless you are talking about FF6, which was at one point in the past FF3 on western territories?).

That has always bugged me too. The first 6 games have been remade multiple times in their original sprite-based 2D forms, and yet the only English localized versions of FF3 are the 3D remakes. The only good option we have is the Chaos Rush translation patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rudy on July 16, 2020, 09:01:46 am
I remember seeing a guy who was trying to do FF4 in FF6 using the FF6 hacker tools as well...

I wonder how that went. I always thought it would be cool (and maybe easier now that we have larger sprites from the remakes). But the deal breaker I always thought would be the battle system having 4 characters, might be a huge pain to add a fifth
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 16, 2020, 10:32:12 am
That has always bugged me too. The first 6 games have been remade multiple times in their original sprite-based 2D forms, and yet the only English localized versions of FF3 are the 3D remakes. The only good option we have is the Chaos Rush translation patch.

You can add me to that tally.
It's disappointing that it's the only left out.
As much as I love Chaos Rush's translation patch, I yearn for a 16-bit remake to go along with it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 16, 2020, 01:10:22 pm
You can add me to that tally.
It's disappointing that it's the only left out.
As much as I love Chaos Rush's translation patch, I yearn for a 16-bit remake to go along with it.

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve also never been a fan of the 3D remake’s art style. The characters look like dolls to me. Hard to take the story seriously.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: odditude on July 16, 2020, 09:34:54 pm
how about this? sorry for the lack of image, but ' '=bg, X=white, .=gray

Code: [Select]
  WWWWW
 W....WW
W....W.W
W....WWW
WWWWWW.W
W.WW.W.W
W....WW
WWWWWW
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 17, 2020, 04:17:54 am
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve also never been a fan of the 3D remake’s art style. The characters look like dolls to me. Hard to take the story seriously.

Exactly. Their heads look like inflated balloons.
I suppose one way to go about it would be to borrow FF5's graphics and make a graphical replacement to be used in Mesen, but if a powerful enough editor existed for FF5 or FF5A, that would probably be the best bet of recreating the game.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 17, 2020, 07:03:29 pm
Okay, the translation is out: http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 18, 2020, 03:01:09 am
Wow, excellent news!
I'll be sure to give it a spin.
Thanks for your hard work.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 18, 2020, 04:40:06 am
Awesome! I'm playing it this weekend for sure!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rudy on July 18, 2020, 09:41:29 am
Good job on the patch! Ver B really takes it to the next level!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 18, 2020, 11:25:36 pm
Wonderful, this was one of my most anticipated games of the summer!

I will give a step-by-step analysis of what I think of the game as I go through it.

First off the starting presentation is already quite impressive, putting more effort (as in some actual dialogue) before starting the battle. It is curious to see that was made into an Auto-Battle.

Using Mysidia as the base of operations is quite an interesting idea, what a neat idea for a recontextualization of an area.

Minwu's sprite looks great, but something looks a little off on Hilda's sprite from the side. From the front she looks fine though. Guy's sprite looks incredibly regal! Not exactly befitting of his personality. Firion looks incredible, they did a great job with the space on him, much better than FFII:Origins, I would say. Maria looks like a recolored Rosa, which is fine.

How interesting to see that Leonora appears to be Minwu's protege. A nice touch!

...Keep track of how many items you've looted...? Huh?

Whoa! A mini-bio for each character on their status screen? I didn't even know we could do that!

Iron Arrow/Bow, hmm... no need to keep track of Ammo then? Well, that would be the same as FFII, now that I think on it.

Ah, so the top is the Tower of Prayer, below that is Fabul's Foyer, neat!

Kodzuka Knife...?

Oh, they added descriptions to all of their items! Awesome!

Ah, the game keeps track of the hidden treasure you find. That's a fun idea!

Looks as if Baron's Inn has remained more or less the same, except with a dancer as hostess.

So the Elder of Mysidia's sprite was used for Tabul, eh? Fair enough.

Oh! They completely redid the world map! You never told us about this Mato!

...Well, there's quite a bit of difficulty here at the start. First normal enemies, DiveEagles took down Firion like he was paper. Maria seems to be MVP here with Black Magic, White Magic, and summoning along with some pretty good accuracy.

Well I've grinded up to Level 5 for everyone. It didn't take that long and is somewhat true to the FFII experience, haha. It's neat to see that Maria learns Aero, a spell not in either FFII/IV proper.

Having learned Smoke Bomb at Level 5, I assume that Firion will have a spellbook similar to Edge.

Before I head off from Altair I'll pick up a Rod for Firion and move him to the backrow. His Broadsword is dealing rather poor damage.

Glad to see there are Chocobo Forests scattered throughout the world, instead of just in one place.

Of course, after I spend money on a Rod I find one in Gatrea, *Grumble, grumble...*

Well, I'm glad I saved before marching into Fynn, haha.

So the Town of Fynn is Baron, it makes sense.

The treasures in the towns look to be relatively unchanged, oddly enough.

"replenish arrows by choosing them..."? That looks to be a carryover from the base game.

Haha! I love the "Pint of No Return" joke.

Hmm, I can't say I like how the Bartender just vanishes, instead of doing... anything implying movement.

Scott as Baigan, haha!

If you get into battle with the guards, the music does not change. That's fine for the castle, but I'm not sure it works too well with the peaceful town theme. I would suggest adding in battle music there by using an event instruction.

I have to reiterate, they did a great job with these scaled down PSP portraits (I think Firion may be using a different render, but I'm not fully sure). Minwu looks to be as awesome as ever. However, again his joining event didn't even have him moving into the party, but again, just vanishing.

Curad and Araise? I thought Level 3 magic was -aga and Life2 was Arise?

I like the tip change of "You can catch a ship from Paloom. What, you have a hovercraft? You should take that to Salamand!" It's a nice touch.

Oh, the Battle Axe is two handed. You wrote a rather good message explaining that.

A nice hint that you might be able to get a Black Chocobo in the Paloom Chocobo Forest at some point. I guess that explains why Paloom is Troia then.

"Drink like a sink!"? That's an odd phrase, at least one I've never heard of.

The treasures in Not-Troia and Mythril have been substantially different, thankfully.

Ah so that's how Cid's Airship was set-up in this game, fair enough, though I expected him to be... Cid, and not a generic Officer sprite, an odd choice there, though that might be because Cid's sprite was replaced.

Haha! What are these weird people on the second floor of the Poft Inn? One seems to think they're Terra, Cloud, and Squall and the other is rehearsing the Opera.


Salamand is Kaipo, eh? Well, FFIV does lack any natural ice areas, so I guess this changes makes sense, talk about a complete recontextualization of events in this case though.

Power Ring for sale, hmm? I might have to pick that up if I can.

Mt. Ordeals in the desert, eh? Interesting...

Minwu's sprite in battle looks incredible, probably the best of the sprites so far.

Those Minimages caught me incredibly off-guard, thankfully Minwu is great and managed to silence them when I knew what I was up against.

Yang as Josef makes a good deal of sense.

Wha? I can't get into the hidden waterfall...? Oh! It's probably been repurposed to getting the snow-mobile...equivalent... in this version.

Incant must be Black and Ninja, neat.

Well! Octomamm came out of nowhere! That was a legitimate shock.

One thing which makes the battles a bit more difficult is lower HP thresholds. In the normal game it doesn't take long for any character to reach 100-150 HP, but in this it takes quite a while for any of them to break 100 HP (not counting Minwu or Guy) This makes each blow a bit more damaging overall.

The strategy was to Slow using Minwu, Chocobo Kick him several times with Maria, then Haste and Berserk Guy. Then I tried Aero and saw it was dealing 300 damage... I should have went with that, hehe.

I admit, after OctoMamm, I did not expect there to be a boss of this place. Looks like I was wrong.

The General+Soldiers wasn't exactly a challenge, but it was nice to see that their stats were buffed a bit. I enjoyed that I could use Sleep on them. It's always nice to see status being useful in a boss fight.

I picked up a Kenpo for Guy, who now has 4x attack, which is good. The main 3 are at Level 11 right now.

Hmm, I guess I'll pick up a Mythril Hammer and Bow for the party. That's about all I can afford.

And now Maria might be able to hit something... eventually, with her bow.

I think I will take a break there. The next step is to Bafsk and I have been playing for roughly two and a half hours. This is a lot of fun and is literally a whole new game! Thank you for your efforts Mato.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 19, 2020, 12:24:41 am
According to the readme, past a certain point, the game turns into the last parts of FF4.
What does that mean exactly? that FF4 tiles are used to reproduce the layout of FF2's Pandemonium?
or that said layout and area don't exist in any shape or form and instead what is present is the FF4
endgame as it always was?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Goznog on July 19, 2020, 02:36:37 pm
good job on the release, I do enjoy both FF2 and 4 quite a bit so this'll be a fun time!

I have noticed one error: when fleeing from battle and losing money, it's called "GP" like in the original US version. the patch is using "Gil" everywhere else.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 20, 2020, 12:37:38 am
Basically, after Leon joins the party, a big hole opens up near the Jade Sea. Going down it takes you to the Underworld where almost all of the same things exist as FF4. And then once you're done there, you go to the moon, where almost all of the moon stuff is the same.

So, once Leon joins the party, the game suddenly stops feeling like FFII and mostly just like FFIV. There are still FFII story elements at the end of the game of course, but not too many.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 20, 2020, 01:12:59 am
I see. I guess it comes with the fact it is a remix rather than a fully fledged recreation.
Thanks again for your hard work on this patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: CO_Andy on July 20, 2020, 04:00:22 am
Thoroughly enjoying this bizarre rom hack. Thanks a bunch, 'Mato  :thumbsup:

Not related but are you no longer working on translating FF VI T-Edition?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 20, 2020, 06:47:38 am
Alright, back to it then...

So Bafsk is Fabul proper, an interesting idea, certainly.

I made a little money on the way here so I picked up a collection of Fire/Ice/Lightning arrows.

It's weird to see the Crystal Room is still just... there. I do like the idea of Borghen actually commanding people from a throne instead of aimlessly running around town.

And suddenly the Mist Dragon.

Cold Mist is ridiculously weak now. Ah, Maria gets the Mist Dragon this early, neat! Wasn't much of a fight unfortunately though.

Oh hey! Leonora joins quite early! That's nice to see.

Mt. Ordeals in the Northern Desert instead of non-descript cave in the frozen Tundra, interesting, but necessary change.

Josef is, indeed, basically Yang, haha!

They did an incredible job with the Leonora sprite, both in and out of battle. As my favorite TAY character they did a great job with her all around.

Hmm... there is a mountain pass that you can only reach with a Chocobo right now, which, coincidentally is right by Desert Mt. Ordeals, I can't resist. I'll check it out.

After I take one step, I'm put right outside of the Mythril Mine, I guess I'm not supposed to be here... as noted by the Readme, alright then. At least I savestated so I can just go back on the Chocobo.

Ah, Flame Rod right on the steps of Mt. Ordeals, quite nice.

Oh...! Despite this place being called Mt. Ordeals, the monster layout is still Mt. Hobbs, fair enough. Though I feel like buying that Flame Claw was a trap now, heh.

The MomBomb fight was actually rather well done. It wasn't anything too difficult, but it nearly came close to killing some of my party members.

Firion just learned Debris Storm, I'm glad to see some legitimately new spells being learned.

How interesting, so in this continuity because of Leonora's presence, Josef doesn't die. What an interesting idea and it makes sense from what had been established before. Leonora is slotted in so well in the story, without having played FFII you wouldn't know she wasn't originally in the game. It is also worth noting that her struggles are switch from TAY. Instead of struggling to learn Black Magic, here she struggles to learn White Magic. A nice role reversal.

I think that will do it for today though. Next stop will be Kashuan Keep.

I have to say, that Hovercraft is Amazing and possibly may make this mod better than the actual FFII due to having so little downtime between dungeon locations, I should also note that so far this game has done amazing with making every Gil worth it, which the original FFII and FFIV have both struggled with, so kudos to the creator. So far I'm still not optimally set up.

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 20, 2020, 01:40:21 pm
Not related but are you no longer working on translating FF VI T-Edition?

No, I actually never started a proper translation project for it, although I did do that live translation series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JR12t_v8ug&list=PL8fufren85t94MkcXjmHHj7PkKiAaGA12) of it a few years back, and later made that Wanderbar plugin (https://legendsoflocalization.com/wanderbar/#final-fantasy-vi-t-edition-super-famicom) that translates everything but the new dialogue text (just needs someone to go fill in the blanks at this point):

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ff6ta.png)
(https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ff6tb.png)

I also heard there's someone else doing their own Lua-based translation, but I don't know the details.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 22, 2020, 08:08:29 am
Hmm, there may be a slight issue in Kashuan Keep. As it is basically just Eblan Castle with the Goddess Bell to open the other doors, you can go down to the lower levels. The issue is that the game assumes you have Gordon at this point, but he's not required to reach this point.

Well... I do wish it was a little later, considering my Level 5 Gordon was immediately turned into a Paladin, but that's a nice scene. I only wish it was having used "Edward" Gordon for a longer period of time. The Paladin sprite for him looks good as well and in battle I think it is completely original.

 I do wish I knew that scene was coming, so I could have dequipped the former Gordon, ah well.

I rather like these new scenes, Hilda thinking of ways to assist, instead of just being a damsel in distress at this point is quite neat.

Just one slight translation error I noticed. You still have that enemies are "weak to projectiles" when you use Libra, however it seems that Arrows are no longer Wind elemental in this, so you may want to change that "weak to Wind".

Well now! I did not expect to fight the CPU so early, oh dear...

A rather well-balanced fight, I'm impressed.

How... interesting, with the King's death the full recovery panel stops working. Hah.

And that will do it for the day. I think this game moves at a more brisk pace than the original due to the amount of transport options you have. It's refreshing.

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 22, 2020, 02:21:06 pm
Yeah, I tried to fix issues with the original hack where I could, like that trigger tile thing from a few days back I was asking about. I ran into that Egil's Ghost thing before getting Gordon too, but couldn't think of a way to fix it. I did manage to change it so the Dreadnought chased the airship though in that 1 second animation though, which I'm kinda proud of  :P

July 22, 2020, 04:19:38 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I've uploaded all of my files + data + source code, you can get it here:

http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/Final%20Fantasy%20C2%20translation%20files.zip

Fellow FFIV hackers will probably find it interesting and/or hopefully helpful in some way. It'd be easy to retranslate the game now and use all of the text enhancements + extra storage space that I set up. Or maybe there's stuff in there that original hack creators might find cool too.

Anyway, if someone wants to submit the patch + the tools to RHDN's database feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 22, 2020, 09:47:38 pm
Oh wow! You made that scene? I guess in the original hack it was unchanged from Vanilla of normal Airships chasing after the main one, from the Underworld? That is quite impressive! It was a cool scene, undoubtedly.

I think to require Gordon, you could *slightly* change the plot and have the Bell's success also require him in the party (perhaps have him ring it). It's very silly that his big class change can occur right after you get him.

Thanks for uploading your files, I will have to take a look at those later.

----------

I really like that Leila joins in the fight after taking out the Pirates. She's also no pushover. Her spamming Thunder/Thundara does actually require you to pay attention to what's going on and she has a healthy amount of HP. For a fully new and custom fight, well done!

"Ships don't work without Chocobos to propel them", really...? That's an odd choice to make, but it makes sense in context.

How bizarre. Leila starts at Level 20 with not full HP/MP, implying she just came from a battle. A nice touch.

I was not expecting Deist to be Troia for... obvious reasons, but I guess we are running out of castles now, though I suppose Baron... or Damcyan... would have worked, quite an odd choice, even odder is the treasure you can stumble across there.

Well, Deist had quite the haul! I am now paranoid that I missed similar special treasures in the other castles though, heh.

I can't say finding the Pendant was very difficult, but then again it was in the next room over in the original FFII as well.

Whoa! Was not expecting Maria to just be tossed the four Rydia return Summons just like that.

Wooden Hammer, eh? I guess I'll be heading to the Magnes Cave equivalent soon.

Oh my goodness! The Antlion fight was actually quite challenging. The Antlion's physical attacks are relentless and I really have to give credit to the maker of this. They made Protect (repeating casting of increasing your base defense by 8) useful for this one fight! I am impressed!

Queen Lamia was neat. She had a unique steal of a Lilith's Kiss which is a pretty good item, all things considered. She wasn't near as difficult as the Antlion, though I may have just gotten lucky since she did use Charm on Leonora, which thankfully she broke before Leonora could deal any real damage. A Bio here and a Fira with a Charge attack there and she was finished.

And that will do it for the day. Again, this mod continues to impress.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 23, 2020, 12:09:29 pm
Grimoire LD, thanks for leaving your progress updates about the hack! When I found this a couple years ago, I thought the new intro was super cool but when I saw vanilla levels I kinda lost interest--I thought it was just vanilla FF4 with a new overworld and rearranged levels. I didn't realize there was so much new stuff in these old locations!

It didn't help I don't understand Japanese lol. Thank you Mato for your work on translating and fixing up this hack, too!

I'm definitely gonna have to give it a go soon.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 23, 2020, 07:54:46 pm
I wasn't sure what to expect at first either, Celice, but it seems the creator really put their heart into making this a stand-out work. I wonder if perhaps they didn't have the tools available to modify maps themselves at the time?

So making it to the Palamecian Desert wasn't that difficult, but there was a surprise waiting for me in the desert. The Desert Devil hits hard and attacks fast, lulling the player into thinking they're fighting an optional boss. Nope! He has less than 2000 HP, haha.

The constant fighting in the desert has actually weakened me enough to the point where I have to use a Tent before reaching my destination. Kudos on that! I think this is the first time FFIV has ever asked that of me.

So the Coliseum is Damcyan? Well, it had to be used somewhere. The normal treasure place is alright. I have Leonora more inline to be a Sage, rather than a White Mage, so I can't say I found the Priest Miter to be terribly useful.

Fighting Calco and Brena in the Coliseum is interesting! They are made to be much more fleshed out enemies, Brena in particular are resilient and they counter with magic but they are susceptible to status.

I rather liked that the Coliseum wasn't just an Emperor plot, but also Leon too, it helps integrate him into the story just a little more.

"We'll draw the guards attention while you escape!" But... there are no more guards, in fact Damcyan is as barren here as it is in the actual FFIV. A slight bit disappointed there. That could have been a cool section to use the Magnes Cave theme (After all a high security prison that doesn't allow its prisoners to hold metal would be a way of keeping thematic sense) ah well.

On returning to Altair, it's almost surreal to see the Rebel Hideout has been cleared out. It's another good attention to detail.

Now this is a slight bit of wizardry... how did the creator manage to change the world state to add a village here? Unless that was here the entire time and I just ignored it.

Castle Fynn as Baron is fitting.

Haha! I like that the commander of Fynn is just Baigan, no setting up... whatever his name was from the original.

Baigan wasn't very difficult. The tactics remain generally the same as the normal game, except this time you have a Summoner which lets you break through his Reflect easily enough, I was careful to take both Baigan and his Right Arm down at once.

I am glad to see that the mod maker didn't forget his own lore and had Leonora know how to open the way to Mysidia Tower.

And I explored a little too far, ran into Odin, and he murdered me... great. I didn't save either, like a fool, bah.

I think that will do it for the day then.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 29, 2020, 12:29:33 am
I finally got around to playing this on my flashcart. This difficulty smacks! But it's fun so far.

I noticed a small bug with the dialogue window. Sometimes the fourth line doesn't display. I think it might be a sprite limit? If I try moving around the NPC and talking again sometimes it shows up, sometimes it doesn't.

The music sounds a little different too. I think the sound font was tweaked a little?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 30, 2020, 05:20:46 pm
I don't think the music was changed, I'm not sure any solid FF4 music hacking tools exist now that I think about it. Would've been cool to hear the rebel theme in FFC2.

For the flash cart stuff, some people have played it on sd2snes just fine, while others have had the same problem. It seems if you change a setting or two in the flash cart it fixes it, but I don't have one myself so I can't really say much about it. There's some relevant info on this thread:

https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1286238252522000384

August 03, 2020, 02:55:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh, a couple people have pointed out the "Porky" spell in the game, but that's not a reference to the EarthBound games or anything else at all - the spell is literally called "Porky" in Japanese in FFIV so I just translated it that way. I didn't realize the "Piggy" name was so beloved though
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on October 24, 2020, 02:22:33 pm
Turns out it was my right speaker going out on the CRT. I didn't realize so many instruments played on a specific left or right output in this game!

I recently picked this back up, but I feel a little stuck. I just got the White Mask and gave it to the statue in Mysidia, but I'm a little lost on how to get to the Black Mask location. I thought I'd use a Black Chocobo, but there's no forests. I went to check Cid, but he's no longer in the town you first find him in.

I haven't played the original FFII in a looooong time but I'm pretty sure I need to get the Black Mask from an island. Anyone have any tips?

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on October 24, 2020, 08:48:30 pm
I don't remember off the top of my head but I think you need to take a ship from that town with the port, I forget its name.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on November 14, 2020, 11:24:22 pm
Yup, that was the solution.

And wow!! I finished the hack just now. Final time: 27:15 with 396/403 treasures discovered. What an amazing hack!!

I loved seeing the credits mention all the tools used.

This was a ton of great work by the original author(s?). I'm super thankful you spent the time to translate and share this hack with us, Mato.

I ended up with three of the secret crystals. I never managed to get the special mythril sword to be upgraded, either; I also found an oases that ended up never used in my playtrough.

The Golbez lyrics were super funny and they matched his theme song perfectly  :laugh:

I was never a big fan of the original NES version's leveling system, so this was a really cool way to replay the game, and as a big FFIV fan, seeing the way the two games complemented each other was super rad! There was some really imaginative asset repurposing.

This is definitely worth a playthrough for any fan :) I dropped you a DM with a little extra thanks, too!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 09, 2021, 04:09:33 pm
Surprise! My work with the FF4/FF2 remake thing was practice for something bigger: FF6T Edition and FF6T Edition EX.

I'm 99% done with the programming and about 70% done with the translating. It'll probably be ready in the second half of the year, I estimate.

FF6 T-Edition sample screenshots I took of random stuff:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-01.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-02.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-03.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-04.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-05.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-06.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-07.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-08.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-09.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-10.png)

FF6 T-Edition EX is actually 99% done but isn't playable without getting to T-Edition endgame:
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english2.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english4.png)

Just thought I'd share here, but I probably won't do any more status update posts until it's ready to release.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: filler on March 09, 2021, 04:42:59 pm
I don't see any screenshots.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Rudy on March 09, 2021, 04:59:53 pm
I'm not super familiar with T-Edition except that I heard it's a REALLY good hack.... What's the difference between T-Edition and the EX one? Is it like an extra bit after you finish the vanilla T-Edition?

Also i see the screenshots fine. Super pumped to play this!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 09, 2021, 07:19:23 pm
I'm guessing the images might not show up because they're being served via http and not https? Maybe some browsers don't like non-http-only anymore.

EX is indeed sort of bonus content for the main FF6 T-Edition patch. You basically swap your FF6 T Edition .srm file with it while in a specific location. This lets you access a new area with a Hall of Memories where you can fight a bunch of extra-tough boss fights with various Final Fantasy series characters, mostly final bosses. There's not much content to the EX patch, but it's impressively done, and you can apparently switch your save file back to the main T-Edition patch after the boss fights to unlock some extra stuff.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on March 09, 2021, 08:31:47 pm
Surprise! My work with the FF4/FF2 remake thing was practice for something bigger: FF6T Edition and FF6T Edition EX.

I'm 99% done with the programming and about 70% done with the translating. It'll probably be ready in the second half of the year, I estimate.

FF6 T-Edition sample screenshots I took of random stuff:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-01.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-02.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-03.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-04.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-05.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-06.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-07.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-08.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-09.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-english-10.png)

FF6 T-Edition EX is actually 99% done but isn't playable without getting to T-Edition endgame:
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english2.png)
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-ex-english4.png)

Just thought I'd share here, but I probably won't do any more status update posts until it's ready to release.
This is amazing Tomato!
I've been waiting to play T-Edition for a long time, and looks like I'll finally get to do so because of your hard work!

Thank you for this! This is amazing!! :) :thumbsup:

Cheers!! :beer:
8.bit.fan
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Ok Impala! on March 10, 2021, 04:12:21 am
Surprise! My work with the FF4/FF2 remake thing was practice for something bigger: FF6T Edition and FF6T Edition EX.

I'm 99% done with the programming and about 70% done with the translating. It'll probably be ready in the second half of the year, I estimate.

You just made my day! I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this! Would've never thought anyone would take it up him to translate this great looking hack! Super excited about this!  Thank you so much!  :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Flandre Scarlet 64 on March 10, 2021, 11:59:31 am
I'm guessing the images might not show up because they're being served via http and not https? Maybe some browsers don't like non-http-only anymore.

EX is indeed sort of bonus content for the main FF6 T-Edition patch. You basically swap your FF6 T Edition .srm file with it while in a specific location. This lets you access a new area with a Hall of Memories where you can fight a bunch of extra-tough boss fights with various Final Fantasy series characters, mostly final bosses. There's not much content to the EX patch, but it's impressively done, and you can apparently switch your save file back to the main T-Edition patch after the boss fights to unlock some extra stuff.
If i remember right the original T-edition creator made the romhack to play in a specific emulator and if you not did some of the custom songs would sound bugged or with errors will your english translaton fix that? i would love to play this in other emulators especially my friend who need to play in mobile because they not have a computer.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 10, 2021, 02:58:26 pm
Hey Mato, been a while! Haven't seen you stream in a very long time, glad to see you're doing ok. A friend linked me here, wanted to say hello and give some info on T-Edition.

You may or may not remember me, but a few years back you had helped me with your hacking notes on T-Edition via email on your stream. I'm part of a project for translating T-Edition (currently via lua scripting and ips patches). Our work is *mostly* done, slowly touching up the dialogue and polishing things with a bunch of quality of life additions thanks to the lua. We also translated all the help files Tsushiy made and hacking notes for modders in his html files. Seeing you do a translation is awesome, and allows console to play (ours can be played on console but not with the lua currently, where dialogue is either garbled or in Japanese - the rest of things like items, etc are in English). We've had nothing but headaches getting this game into English, (and the bugs, all the bugs lol) let alone hacking dialogue into the game, so seeing you do it is great!

As far as the translation goes, are you also aware or correcting any bugs/glitches? We've documented a *lot* of the issues with T-Edition and fixed them/reported it to Tsushiy. That said, if you want any help or even to combine your work once done let me know. We can toss you some bug fix ips patches or just inform you of a list of things, either or. My goal from the start was to get this game into English and get fans playing/enjoying the massive amount of work that went into it :)

Speaking of Tsushiy, he went MIA for over 2 years and popped back a month or so ago, apologizing for disappearing. He has little motivation for modding anymore but wanted to at least fix bugs and such if possible. My team and several Japanese posters on his forums submitted bug reports/fixes and he updated the file from 2.9.1 to now 2.9.4 (there's a handful of new features, even a nice new Setzer base sprite he added). If you recall during your older playthrough, that "using an item in battle and you got Ultima" or something, that bug was found/fixed. Currently, there's an even bigger bug with any item ID above 256 we've reported on (and submitted the solution to *finally* be rid of it), but he sadly hasn't posted in over 3 weeks now... if he doesn't pop back, we plan to fix it ourselves (and documented any current/known bugs on our forums and in the download and work arounds for them).

We've also released a MSU-1 for the mod to help fix the music to sound how he intended it on uosnes, due to SNES 9x or other emulators sounding off or beeps/boops (Tsushiy offered me a fix but admitted it still doesn't sound "as good", but was content that it at least fixed it a little, but the MSU-1 completely corrects it).

In any case, let me know, would love to talk more in-depth on the project/mod in general, as it's been our passion for the last few years. Keep up the great work!

http://ngplus.net/index.php?/forums/forum/40-final-fantasy-vi-t-edition/ (http://ngplus.net/index.php?/forums/forum/40-final-fantasy-vi-t-edition/)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 10, 2021, 07:35:02 pm
Unfortunately I don't know much when it comes to music hacking, so I won't be able to fix that on my own. I believe the current theory is that data stored in HiExROM areas have a slightly different read time, leading to the wonkiness. If that's true, it could be possible to relocate most of the songs to safe areas and move existing data to the HiExROM areas, but that would be like doing brain surgery without any experience.

Right now, I have a note added to the NPC who explains about the Music Player that some songs might sound wonky on modern emulators and hardware. In the readme I'll try to emphasize that it sounds correct in Snes9x v1.51.

Kain Stryder: Yo! I actually saw your posts on Tshushiy's board and know what issues you're talking about. I haven't done any serious long-term playtesting yet so I don't really have much to report in regard to that on my end. If you have bug fixes and stuff, that'd be cool for sure. Actually, now that I think about it, I did fix a bug that doesn't display the esper's name when looking at the spells the esper teaches, but it was minor and probably not even noticeable. I was considering looking into the Joker Doom exploit, I recall it was something viewers kept asking about. I don't know how much Tsushiy did about it himself, though, except that it seems more formations have the no-Joker Dooms bit set.

There's also that bug that's documented with screenshots in the patch's .zip file that deals with using items in a battle when a >256 item is in the bottom row. I assume that's what happened with the weird Ultima thing I had that one time.

I actually started my project in late January so it's coming along pretty quickly. I didn't realize until recently that the Lua workaround translation was so robust though, I had heard it simply did item names, enemy names, basic strings, etc. You got basically everything working already :o When I saw screenshots/videos of it in action a few days ago I was like "oh no, I hope this doesn't turn into a rivalry thing like the old days", haha. It reminded me of the old Dragon Quest I+II translation rivalry that suddenly appeared out of nowhere like 18 years ago.

I did indeed see the new 2.9.4 update. When I saw it, I was like ARGH because I thought it was safe to do a translation finally, after like 2.5 years of no patch updates. A few days ago I wrote some code to see the text differences between versions should any new Japanese patches get released. I actually haven't asked him for permission to do a translation or even told him I'm working on one yet, so I hope he won't mind. It's sad to hear that he's lost motivation, but I super understand the feeling.

Anyway, it's clear you guys have worked hard so I didn't mean to step on your toes. Hopefully I didn't make anyone upset by posting about my project. On my end, I had considered trying to move the bad music data to MSU-1 or some other solution too, but I decided I'm mostly interested in the translation side of things and that more serious hackers would figure out that wacky technical music stuff.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 10, 2021, 08:28:02 pm
Haha, nah no worries on rivalry or stepping on toes. By all means don't stop your project, you're even more than welcome to collaborate it with us (we were working on an actual ips patch translation for the dialogue to bypass lua for console users, and to try and minimize the patching to get our work loaded up, but it was a back burner thing), but if you want to keep it separate that's more than fine, we won't be mad or offended or anything. My goal as I said was just to get this mod into English and get other fans to enjoy it. How we reached that goal, I didn't care, I'm not in this for glory or if others stepped up with something, I'd just be elated. I just simply wanted to inform you to the 2.9.4 update and bugs/glitches for your project, in the event you may not have been aware (and I had also figured you saw he hadn't done anything in 2.5 years and decided it was safe to make a patch finally) and offer the collab chance with you :) When I started this, no one was seriously invested in doing it (or rather, many had tried but gave up/got frustrated, which is extremely understandable when you delve into the code work). I simply just started translating the help me files so people could use them as guides while they played. Shortly afterwards, I met someone who had done a very rough menu hack and from there we teamed up and got the ball rolling to what you see today.

You're more than welcome to pop by our Discord if you use that to talk, though I understand you're busy and have other projects. I can have our lua girl discuss things a bit easier (I'm not the person who handled the lua) like for fixing bugs or adjusting the coding. Your work would also allow our project to simplify itself and even do a lua lite mode with quality of life changes added into it (especially for console users). Our script for example uses the GBA dialogue, then any new dialogue Tsushiy added in was done by myself (we felt re-translating a game with an already solid translation was pointless and we didn't want to offend anyone's memories or come across as "holier-than-thou"). But please, by all means, don't feel pressured if you don't want this or if you'd offend anyone. I think I can say with certainty everyone here would be elated to see you do a translation, myself included. I'm no professional :P

And sure, bug fixes I can toss up. Tsushiy actually fixed/removed that item ID 256 graphic for 2.9.4 from the help me files, but the one I mentioned in my first post persists (we actually originally figured it was a very rarely occurring bug, as I had seen only a few streamers get it). We determined the root cause of it:

When you open a treasure chest containing an item with ID256+, for the game to load the item name, it sets $1444 to 1. This does not get cleared.

When an item is dropped in battle, it checks if $1444 is 1, which gets set during the "formation special drop" routine, and if so, drops an item with ID256+. Unfortunately, during battle, the $1444 is never cleared, so if it was set beforehand, an enemy who drops "item 0xE8" will instead drop "item 0x1E8" which is not a valid item.

Accessing the main menu clears $1444, so opening the menu before a battle will prevent this from occurring. Maybe at the start of a battle it should clear $1444 though?

High chance of this occurring when acquiring the chest with "Experience Egg" and then immediately fighting Ultima Buster without checking the menu first.

Other bugs that were fixed for 2.9.4 were a "level up 2x or more" glitch where stats weren't updating correctly (Ultima Weapon/Atma Weapon) was not getting stronger. He re-added the Experience Egg to the game, but this caused issues and seemed to upset him when he himself discovered a bug (sometimes equipping relics, they are greyed out, but it's a display error only; you can still equip them). He said if he can't solve it, he'll just remove the egg again.

I wasn't aware of the esper thing you fixed, though we had completely redone the menu work so that probably just got overwritten haha.

Mostly, if you update your stuff to 2.9.4 you should be ok, but the stuff I listed above are the glaring issues right now (the item ID256 thing is fixable). Other known issues are:

- Locke's "Sky Pirate" costume is not selectable in EX via the moogle
- Gau's Rage achievement unlocks at 240 rages possibly instead of 255, due to the following (copied from Discord):

The "Tonberries" rage is that last bit, for 0x8000, but it's completely unusable in the game, so it will never appear on your rage menu.
So normally if you have all 255 rages, excluding Tonberries, your rage data will look like
FF FF FF .. FF FF 7F
however if you have Tonberries and none of the other last 14 rages, which makes the last two bytes 0x8000 ... well, 0x8000 is equal to or greater than 0x7FFF, so the check passes. Of course, Tonberries + any other of the 14 rages works too since 0x8C2F or whatever is still higher than 0x7FFF
The list of skippable rages, as long as you have Tonberries fought as Gau, is Amduscia, Baalzeph, Chronos, Daedalus, DthMachi, Garm, GlasyaLa, GoldBear, InnoSent, Io, MtlHitmn, Necroman, Pineappl, RedMarsh, Thor
I just checked this in-game by fighting Tonberries while having all of those rages missing, it does indeed set the proper 'rage bit' even if you can never use it

- 200,000 step achievement unlocks randomly (we don't know the cause)
- Unable to enter the esper menu on x character sometimes (does that X sound like when you try to enter Banon's equip menu). We don't know the cause and I've only seen 1 streamer have the issue. Corrected itself upon saving/reloading.
- Entering the Cave to the Ancient Castle coming from the Ancient Castle has the music sound beep/boop, don't know the cause of it. MSU-1 fixes it.

As for MSU-1, I *believe* my friend put the coding into Cyan's Bushido stuff, but I can always ask her (we had a little bit of an issue finding space). For the music, the reason it sounds off is because uosnes has unlimited audio ram compared to other emulators, so Tsushiy was able to use I believe additional sound channels etc (this was explained to me, I'm also not at all familiar with music/SNES music coding, sorry if I botch any of the details). Due to the coding, 9x and others has issues playing this. Tsushiy's solution is: in 9x go to Emulation >>> Hacks >>> OK >>> Check Separate Echo Buffer from RAM, and this'll fix the music beep/boop sounds mostly, but says the music still sounds "slightly off". For the most part, our MSU-1 stuff is complete (though she's working on the inn music jingles and victory fanfares still, but those will be auto added to the file and no additional downloading is needed).

Permission wise, I'm sure Tsushiy would be more than fine with you working on this :P he mentioned you when he returned (that he originally watched your stream of it), and has had no problems with me working on it when I asked him years ago, more so elated his work is seeing interest overseas, as he never dreamed English players would be interested. He said he'd check some of the streams/LP's I linked for him to see what was done and was looking forward to working with us, so I sincerely doubt you'd upset him, haha. His only thing was that if we changed anything to just please rename the mod so people don't associate it with him and annoy him with bug reports etc. All the optional content (lua quality of life, things he wanted to add but couldn't figure how to, etc) or work we've added has stayed optional or you can turn off; we've replaced none of his work. I just hope he doesn't disappear again.

But yeah bug fix wise, everything should be in the 2.9.4 ips file, barring what I wrote above as current known issues (that we're aware of). If you need more info, feel free to let me know!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Serity on March 10, 2021, 08:41:47 pm
Unfortunately I don't know much when it comes to music hacking, so I won't be able to fix that on my own. I believe the current theory is that data stored in HiExROM areas have a slightly different read time, leading to the wonkiness. If that's true, it could be possible to relocate most of the songs to safe areas and move existing data to the HiExROM areas, but that would be like doing brain surgery without any experience.

Right now, I have a note added to the NPC who explains about the Music Player that some songs might sound wonky on modern emulators and hardware. In the readme I'll try to emphasize that it sounds correct in Snes9x v1.51.
/wave, I'm the Lua coder.

The music issues are caused due to the instruments using up too much data (?) so the audio info overflows into the RAM dedicated to the music's echo. There's a "hacks" setting in snes9x(-rr) 1.60 that allows you to separate the echo RAM which lets it play okay.

The MSU patch that was thrown together uses the SRAM for Cyan's Swdtech names (7E1D0A-7E1D0E) because, for the Lua version, I knew that RAM was unused since the Lua completely disregards the text that's there and prints the skill names directly in 8x8 font (because I'm a scrub who couldn't figure out how to get the wide font to not display the tall glyphs in the 18xx range). So that could be an incompatibility if you just read from that RAM... although the screen to let you change the name is gone anyways so there's not much harm in hardcoding the names.

I think what you have in the screenshots is significantly better than what we have anyways. I've been staring at that GBA font too long, ahaha. We never put together a real EX patch, for EX I only threw together a minimum-possible-effort patch in order to make it playable in English, there's still various gibberish in places. The Lua effort only works on a single emulator, if you don't use that one then 95% of the text in the game is just garbage text because there's no script or monster names or anything else in the base IPS patch.

2.9.4 should be fine to install? I used LocksmithArmy's patch conflict checker (https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1080/) to compare 2.9.4 to what we had done and there was no issues (though for you, of course you might be using some various offsets that we didn't use, especially when it comes to the ASM).

If you wanna talk patches or bugfixes or whatever, we're in #ff6-t-edition on the NGPlus Discord.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 12, 2021, 04:16:25 pm
Whoa, thanks for all the info and tips!  :beer:

For the music glitches, I have no doubt that you're correct since your emulator fixes seem to solve the problem. I assumed the HiExROM read time was the issue due to this thread from a while back: https://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/post-24518.html The fact that the Ancient Cave music doesn't always glitch adds more mystery to the pile, although I recall that I could get some glitchy songs in the music player to sound correct by playing certain songs immediately beforehand. Crazy stuff there. I'd love if there were a surefire fix for the problem but it's probably going to go beyond the scope of what I can do with my project.

I don't have an easy way to test the $1444 bug but here's a patch that should hopefully fix it. Let me know if it works/doesn't work for you: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-1444bugfixed.ips

For the step counter bug, I haven't looked into any of that at all, but I wonder if there's a missing CLC command before the addition occurs across all the bytes. That could potentially throw things off. I might look into it later but it sounds like it's hard to reproduce, so it might not be solvable.

I'm not sure what could cause the equipment graying out bug, but I was handling that code a few weeks back while working on the main menus so I could take a peek sometime. I haven't come across this problem yet either, but I haven't done much playtesting since 2.9.4 anyway. I can't even remember where the Exp. Egg is supposed to be, I guess it's in Kefka's Tower based on your $1444 bug notes though.

The Tonberry bug is interesting, and I don't have any fix ideas in mind yet but I imagine the easiest solution would be to just have it ignore the Tonberry bit during the check, then unlock when 254 rages have been detected. This would bring it closer to the intended purpose and not surprise anyone out of the blue. The Tonberry rage would still be gettable and usable, just not counted in the total. That, or just subtract 1 from each byte when checking and then check for 0xFE for all the bytes except the Tonberry one which would be 0x7F.

The Sky Pirate thing I don't think I'll be able to fix, as I haven't worked with the game's scripting at all and wouldn't know where to start. I imagine it'd get pretty messy and I'd be liable to cause unseen trouble with any potential clumsy fix. I could just put a note in the Moogles' text about going back to T-Edition to switch to it if the player wants.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 12, 2021, 07:29:47 pm
The music stuff can't be corrected beyond the 9x solution or MSU-1 which we recently released, just because of how it was coded. For the most part, it seems fine with the fix, and MSU-1 just fixes it completely to sound how it should (and opens the ability for any other MSU stuff in the future if we or anyone decides and wants to :D! )

I reported the $1444 thing to Tsushiy to let him patch/fix it, just so we didn't do it then have to undo our work to patch his stuff and anything else (saves us a hassle), but it's going on a month now since his last reply and he didn't acknowledge my last post yet. If you want to test the issue yourself, simply get any of the following items (via a treasure chest or a battle):

Hero's Ring, Guard Bracelet, Dead Spirit, Prayer Beads, Black Belt, Dragon Horn, Celestriad, Master's Scroll, Bacchus's Bracer, Safety Bit, Mime's Dictionary, Bracer, Tetra Elemental, Embroidered Tippet, Soul of Thamasa, Zeidrich, Flame Cape, Wind Corsage, Earth Greaves, Water Cuffs, Maiden's Prayer, Imp's Feelings, Piggy's Badge, Experience Egg

Any of these items will work. The trick is get one of them, then *do not open your menu*, enter a battle and try to win an item, it doesn't matter what. It should come out like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/2eykDoj.png)

You'll get a garbage data item that will most likely corrupt your game or cause issues. The lua warns you to sell it asap if you highlight it in the menu. Auto-sorting it either makes it disappear (still will cause issues) or puts it wherever. How we tested and figured the cause was a streamer got the Experience Egg from a chest, then ran and fought a boss (had Molulu's Charm on to avoid battles), never opened his menu, beat the boss and the 100% drop is the pic you see above. Serity checked the memory and determined the issue and semi solution till it can be patched (opening the menu fixes it).

This is just if you want to further test anything. I went ahead and tested your patch and it worked perfectly! Thank you! We'll add it up and I'll report it to Tsushiy when he hopefully pops back (or feel free to yourself, I'm sure he'd freak hearing from you :P). My test personally was I went and got the Experience Egg from
Spoiler:
The Floating Continent in the WoR which is accessed via a new tower NE of dino forest. Treasure Chest at the very end of it. Did a save, took the egg, did a battle vs Ramuh/Ifrit/Shiva clones and won. Got a garbage item. Applied your patch and reloaded, got the egg, did the same fight, got a Fire/Thunder/Ice Rod (very lucky lol), so it's fixed.) The other location for the egg is winning the new fight from Kefka on the FC at the end of the WoB.

From what Serity tells me, the greying out equipment persisted from older versions, but I've never seen it or seen a streamer have the problem. It's just been recently with relics only, to where Tsushiy himself posted the bug report for it. He thinks it might be due to the Experience Egg being put back in, but Serity tells me it's not the case due to the above, and how the cause is unknown. It's just a graphic display though, thankfully.

I did report all this to Tsushiy, but again, no response yet. One other small issue I reported was his new Setzer sprite, he forgot to put in the 2 small graphics for it when riding a Chocobo (the world map ones), so it just displays Setzer's original back sprite for it, not the new one. I can fix this myself, but was waiting for Tsushiy to handle it first. If he doesn't, I'll just correct it, it's not a big deal.

One small note for your translation to check, that we had issues with: Make sure to play test or trigger the ending if you can (where it shows the like "Terra as Terra Branford" etc scenes). Due to our tampering with names, it comes out all odd colored at parts on those screens (red/blue/green). Just graphical errors but otherwise the sprite scenes are fine. Our issue seemed to be that the ending screen would show say "Kakata (just random katakana and not what the player has them named as) as Terra Branford" but the kata was all pushed together. I guess just names in general to check? That was really our only issue outside of the Name Screen that we had to completely rework.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 13, 2021, 07:53:14 pm
Whoa, I had no idea about that Tower of Power place, seems like it'll be fun to re-explore.

The character names during the ending was pretty simple to fix, the game was just trying to load from further down in the font data than needed for English purposes:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-credits.png)

I took a peek at the grayed out equipment bug, but I'm not sure how to fix it myself. But when it happens with one character, it seems you can reproduce it on other characters too by removing whatever equipment is on their left hand.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 13, 2021, 11:25:34 pm
Oh nice, I'm glad it was simple to fix, we haven't gotten around to it yet ourselves.

Yeah there's a LOT of stuff he's added since you streamed, should've seen the chaos from 2.5 to 2.7, haha. He had two soft locks (he changed Thamasa Inn's music so during the house on fire event the game just stopped due to eventing, and going down to the save room on the FC just froze you for some reason). Another was he added a small house north of Narshe on the world map, which produced *actual lag* to the game upon entering and walking around. Clicking spaces around the map gave you random items or battles, such as the Cyan event at the Imperial Camp fights or even corrupted items.

If you stream it again, or even just play through the game casually, you'll really enjoy alot of what he did or added/changed up.

We'll keep looking into the relic greying on our end and keep you posted if we discover anything. The "left hand" part you discovered sounds big, so we'll make a note of that.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 15, 2021, 07:09:16 pm
Do you know if any enemies drop any of the >256 extended items?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 15, 2021, 09:39:25 pm
Yeah there's a bunch. I don't think our scan/steal/drop data shown below shows any of the 256 drops due to I want to say it's specially coded? I forget the reasoning, Serity mentioned it to me once. If it's something that needs to be known let me know, but yeah our data just doesn't show it in the picture below off the search tool we made. Kefka below for example does drop the Experience Egg 100% if you beat him, I know that for sure.

(https://i.imgur.com/MCgDOyN.png)

However, this list was compiled by us from the data, so just ctrl+f any item to find all instances in the game of what chest or enemy has it:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ewi9yp4u6hyi6xt/ff6_t_item_locations_%2528farming%252C_etc%2529.txt/file (https://www.mediafire.com/file/ewi9yp4u6hyi6xt/ff6_t_item_locations_%2528farming%252C_etc%2529.txt/file)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Serity on March 16, 2021, 08:58:49 am
Do you know if any enemies drop any of the >256 extended items?
Enemies do not drop >256 items. However, "formations" do, which is a new feature that was coded in (the drops, not the formations). 0x4B4A00+(0..0x2D6 [726]) is single-byte item ID (add 0x100 to get proper item ID). Formations can only drop extended items, they can't drop normal items.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 23, 2021, 08:24:29 pm
Thanks, it looks like I had the >256 item drops working properly for battles already, whew!

I'm about halfway through the Bank 2 script text at the moment but I'm not sure where this sort of text appears in the game:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ffstuff.png)

I'm assuming that some of those blank paintings get filled up if you do certain things, like maybe defeat EX bosses? Or is there some other place that this text shows up?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 23, 2021, 10:55:27 pm
Those are the descriptions of the paintings, yeah. As you clear bosses in EX, then transfer your save data back over to the base game, the paintings appear with descriptions when examined.

Also if you run into song lyrics like this:

Spoiler:
  [1015] =[[Run through the cold<NL>          of the night<NL>As passion burns<NL>         in your hearts<EOP><NL>Ready to fight, a knife<NL>     held close by your side<EOP>Like a proud wolf alone<NL>

They're from the Developer's Room at the Maria NPC, if you play certain songs from the music player and then speak to her. From memory she sings a FF3 song, a Xenogears song (shown above, which is NOT an actual song in the player (title is Star of Two Pieces), and one other I'm forgetting. There's also a mass of dialogue for each FF6 song that the Opera House NPCs in the same room comment on if you play a song in the room and speak to them.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 24, 2021, 04:01:14 pm
I ran into this bug recently, and it's unrelated to any of my work - it happens in Japanese FF6T. The timer during the Night Patrol event acts crazy on the main menu and counts down by 64 (or I assume something is being bit-shifted right a bunch of bits) instead of showing the actual current countdown timer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnMsjq2dboI

I first noticed this issue when using bsnes-plus for my debugging/testing purposes. It doesn't seem to occur with snes9x though. So I tested it on hardware as seen in the video above, and it matches bsnes-plus.

I think this is the only countdown timer that goes above 10 minutes in the game? If so, then it seems like Tsushiy added some code to calculate the tens minute digit, which might be what causes this.

I actually ran into a similar issue when testing the timer during the Ultros-dropping-tons-of-weight on Celes scene, but I thought I had fixed it. Looking back, maybe I had just tested my fix in snes9x.

Have you guys seen this countdown timer problem? Are you able to re-create it at all?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 24, 2021, 08:30:48 pm
I've never seen an issue with the timers before like that. Mostly because we uses 9x or 9x-rr due to the lua, as does everyone I've seen streaming it. I've only had a few people use actual hardware and from memory it never had the issues you're showing. Tsushiy codes for uosnes, so any other emulator will have problems or he can't guarantee it'll work properly. There was recently on his forums a poster showing problems via an emulator I think called SNEShout or something (an emulator discontinued in 2002? somewhere around there). His Umaro had no actions and would freeze the game, and entering Kefka's Tower and doing certain events caused a freeze/empty room to appear. Tsushiy couldn't replicate the errors at all and others chalked it to the emulator. Possibly the same case here. I did as a safety go and check 9x-rr on my end and both our translation and the Japanese patch have no issues.

Excuse the weird names in the Japanese picture, it's a result of our editing:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/zdyrnmk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/qeJwj4c.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 24, 2021, 08:42:51 pm
Do you happen to have a save file that's far into the game? I'm actually using save files from my old 2014 run, so there's a chance that's involved here. It's not likely, given the RAM addresses used but I wanna make sure before I try to fix it or decide to ignore it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 24, 2021, 09:52:54 pm
I do, I have one that's end game (and saved/ready for EX), I'll PM it to you on here.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 24, 2021, 10:08:14 pm
Thanks! I tried it out and the problem is still there. I guess it's just something that's broken on actual hardware/more accurate emus. It seems to be connected with how Tsushiy carved out a tiny bit of RAM in that $1440 block, in this case he uses $144d and $144e to handle the enhanced time counter/display routine for the main menus. I can't make sense of why it happens though, so I'll probably just have to leave it as a bug in the readme or something.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 24, 2021, 10:21:41 pm
Huh, interesting. I asked the two guys I know that play on hardware to test it on their end, but haven't heard back yet, but if you figured the issue, I'll also make a note, thanks for finding it!

Edit: One guy just got back to me:

https://youtu.be/pL2BfKuTAy0 (https://youtu.be/pL2BfKuTAy0)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 25, 2021, 04:41:36 pm
Okay, I found the issue: Tsushiy skips a bunch of NOPs that seem unimportant, but they're actually there so that the game waits until the division registers finish their work. So basically the bugged timer was reading in garbage data from un-finished division math.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/div1.png)  (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/div2.png)

The fix is simple enough, just change the instruction at $c33355 to "jmp $335e". A simpler way is to hex edit the byte at $c33356 to 0x5e, or use the cheat code "c333565e".

EDIT: It might also be helpful to let the snes9x dev community know about the division delay issue, since the current snes9x builds don't demonstrate this bug that's present on hardware and bsnes-plus.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 25, 2021, 07:53:46 pm
Nice work! I'm sure the community would love to know this. At least we can write that one bug off from the list now :D
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Queue on March 25, 2021, 08:12:07 pm
99.9% sure they're well aware (and have been for ~25 years). Most SNES emulators intentionally don't implement accurate timing requirements for the multiplier / divider because it's computationally expensive and doesn't matter for commercial games since they had correct delays before the result read; it only bites ROM hacks and new development tested against the emulators that don't bother delaying the result.

The multiplier needs 8 cycles maximum and the divider needs 16 cycles maximum. Note I say maximum; if the value to multiply / divide by is smaller, the result is computed sooner. Safe code will always just make sure there's the full delay before the read to avoid bugs. Emulators that do implement the delay may not implement partial / early results to match real hardware, either, so again, safe code waits the full time.

The cycle cost of the instruction decoding of the result read itself (LDY in this case) can be counted as part of the delay requirement because the decode occurs before the actual result read; that'll be 3 cycles in this case since it's a 3 byte long instruction.

Note the vanilla FF6 code has a much longer than necessary delay at 31 cycles = 14 * 2 (NOP) + 3 (LDY decode).

Your fixed code is barely safe; it's 3 (JMP) + 5 * 2 (NOP) + 3 (LDY decode) = 16 cycles.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 25, 2021, 09:10:12 pm
Yeah, as I was looking into it, I came across talk about instruction cycles vs. master cycles and was in over my head. Luckily my fix worked regardless of it. I'm glad those NOPs were still there at least, they made for a nice, clean fix.

March 27, 2021, 05:34:03 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
How have people discovered the step counter bug in the past? Do they just go into the Achievement Room and notice that they've unlocked it somehow? Or do they just see a flag get set/message get displayed while walking around?

I ask because I wonder if it might somehow be related to missing NOPs again, although I don't know why that'd be the case.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 27, 2021, 08:49:36 pm
Just entering the achievement room to check progress and seeing it. I've had it unlock right at the start of the game with Locke and Terra personally, same with one streamer, and seen it unlock randomly between 80,000-180,000 steps for a handful of other streamers.

Some of the flags for achievements in there for costumes are also a bit wonky, but Tsushiy is aware of it or unable to address the issues. For example, when you unlock Edgar's costumes with access to the dressing room, he always has his first 2 unlocked since his "Chief" costume (Gerad) is opened with the quest for the dressing room completed, and his TAY Kain costume for freeing South Figaro from the empire during the banquet. Well, when you go and check at the npc, only the Gerad costume shows up, but if you go to the achievement room and see his statue/achievement, *then* his Kain costume is available. This applies to a handful of other costumes and I've made a note in the files telling players to just periodically check the achievement room if a costume doesn't appear after unlocking it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 28, 2021, 07:11:44 pm
Okay, I've noticed that the game checks & sets the >200,000 steps taken flag when walking through this specific door.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/achievedoor.png)

The game actually only checks to see if you've gone over 0x030000 steps, so the achievement technically unlocks at 196,608 steps. It looks like it does a similar check but with money, so if there's a money achievement it might also have an "unlocks at a different number than what the achievement says" thing going on too.

Basically, the game checks the full word at $1868, which contains the high byte of the total steps + some other probably unrelated number. For some reason, this unrelated number is assumed to always be 0x55, so the achievement check actually looks to see if the word is >= 0x5503. If the achievement ever gets set off early, it's because you walk through that achievement door while that unrelated byte has mysteriously changed to something higher than 0x55.

In vanilla FF6, this mystery 0x55 byte would actually be the ID of the first item in your inventory. But it looks like Tsushiy moved the inventory data elsewhere, so I dunno what this 0x55 is used for. Maybe there's some leftover inventory code somewhere that still fiddles with inventory data in its original RAM location, and that sets the achievement off early.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 28, 2021, 08:36:12 pm
Interesting. There's no money achievement, and the only items you can really have at that point are like Potions, Elixir, Dagger, Mythril Dagger, Buckler, Mythril Shield/Lance, Cotton Robe (drops from either the rats or bats in the mines), Leather Hat/Armors, and Phoenix Downs. I also wasn't aware it unlocked at 196,000 or so.

If that 0x55 thing was still the inventory, I believe usually Potions are the first item with auto-sorting, so perhaps having x number of them via farming may be the cause? I don't know otherwise. Nice find, though!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Serity on March 28, 2021, 08:56:58 pm
0x55 is one of... some sort of default values that it sometimes resets memory to (0b01010101). If you look through the memory in the 0x1400~0x1B00 block you can see just huge swathes of it, especially after starting up the game. For example, in my NMI Byte check to see what mode of the game we're in, I have this code:
Code: [Select]
local GameScenes = {
    Uninitialized = 0x555555, -- unloaded ram
    Cinematic   = 0x7E71BF, -- opening cutscene, narshe walking, world of ruin scene, etc
    Field       = 0xC00182, -- dungeons, towns, etc
    Battle      = 0xC10B8A, -- combat
    Menu        = 0xC313F2, -- any menu
    WorldFlight = 0xEEA500, -- flying on the airship on the world map
    World       = 0xEEA71F, -- walking on the world map
    MinecartCinematic = 0xEEA944, -- magitek facility minecart cinematic
}
function checkNMI()
    local NMIByte = bit.band(0x00FFFFFF,memory.readdword(0x7E1501))
...
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 28, 2021, 11:02:07 pm
OK, after some testing it seems that the old inventory bytes get filled with a bunch of stuff when on the save/load menus, and whatever the heck $1869 is supposed to have, it basically never re-initializes it. So the step counter achievement in FF6T is super unreliable and can be unlocked right at the beginning, just as you mentioned.

I've inserted a small workaround in my project to make the step counter comparison work right (by ignoring $1869 in the comparison). It's kind of hacky but it does the job right at least.

March 29, 2021, 02:31:20 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
On an unrelated topic, does anyone know if there's a RAM address that holds the game's text speed/is used as a delay timer for drawing each letter of main dialogue? Currently, the game's intro text doesn't finish printing before each fade-in and it's kind of distracting.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on March 29, 2021, 08:34:33 am
I went ahead and asked a few of the guys who run some of the mods for FF6 for their input on that (Return of the Dark Sorcerer and Brave New World), as well as Serity. They aren't sure themselves, but this is what was discussed:

Spoiler:
$BD-$D3 Dialog Text
-------------------
    $BD Current Dialog Character
    $BE Next Dialog Character
    $BF Text's Current X Position on Dialog Window ($04-$E0)
might be BF but uh idk really
i think it copies like one letter per frame or something like that


He could draw more than one per frame, but I don't know if he could draw the whole text box in a single one..
$BF is updated with ($BF + char width) each time you draw.


Otherwise, they're unsure or just don't know themselves.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on March 31, 2021, 10:24:01 pm
I've hit the part of Bank 2's text that's filled with music titles. I looked at the music player and some of its titles are kind of wonky and not what they're known by in English. I can anticipate that these will be a sticking point for some players, so I thought I'd run them by people here for suggestions/fixes/advice.
For reference, here's an FF6T soundtrack playlist I made years ago that might be out of date: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SltTStPo6WM&list=PL8fufren85t_HrXNDwPg6YEej9Lf5HIs4

It seems like some pieces of FF music have gone by multiple names over the years, so I dunno which ones are preferred over others. If anyone can offer help, please do!

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: KingMike on March 31, 2021, 11:44:05 pm
0x55 is one of... some sort of default values that it sometimes resets memory to (0b01010101). If you look through the memory in the 0x1400~0x1B00 block you can see just huge swathes of it, especially after starting up the game. For example, in my NMI Byte check to see what mode of the game we're in, I have this code:
Code: [Select]
local GameScenes = {
    Uninitialized = 0x555555, -- unloaded ram
    Cinematic   = 0x7E71BF, -- opening cutscene, narshe walking, world of ruin scene, etc
    Field       = 0xC00182, -- dungeons, towns, etc
    Battle      = 0xC10B8A, -- combat
    Menu        = 0xC313F2, -- any menu
    WorldFlight = 0xEEA500, -- flying on the airship on the world map
    World       = 0xEEA71F, -- walking on the world map
    MinecartCinematic = 0xEEA944, -- magitek facility minecart cinematic
}
function checkNMI()
    local NMIByte = bit.band(0x00FFFFFF,memory.readdword(0x7E1501))
...
I know SNES9x uses 0x55 as the default RAM fill value (which on a real console should be assume random-filled). Does the game actually reinitialize unused RAM to 0x55 as well?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 01, 2021, 01:45:07 am
I'm not sure, but because the value in that address can and does change, I wasn't comfortable assuming it'd be safe for me to initialize myself. Luckily the problem is easily fixed with a few extra lines of code.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on April 01, 2021, 04:09:10 am
I've hit the part of Bank 2's text that's filled with music titles. I looked at the music player and some of its titles are kind of wonky and not what they're known by in English. I can anticipate that these will be a sticking point for some players, so I thought I'd run them by people here for suggestions/fixes/advice.
  • Here's the list of song names as dumped from Japanese FF6T's music player: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-song-names-j.txt

  • And here's the revised list I have at the moment: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff6t-early-pics/ff6t-song-names.txt
For reference, here's an FF6T soundtrack playlist I made years ago that might be out of date: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SltTStPo6WM&list=PL8fufren85t_HrXNDwPg6YEej9Lf5HIs4

It seems like some pieces of FF music have gone by multiple names over the years, so I dunno which ones are preferred over others. If anyone can offer help, please do!

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fd0n3xfedo7c45d/bgm.html/file (https://www.mediafire.com/file/fd0n3xfedo7c45d/bgm.html/file)

Here's my take on the song names. I just used the official ones and checked the wiki/OST names for any I wasn't sure on.

The only ones I would argue on, from a translation standpoint, would be if you felt changing the "Tina" song to "Terra", the "The Empire "Gastra" to "Gestahl" etc etc, since alot of the FF6 songs official names use the Japanese character names. However, that falls into the "well the official name *is* Tina still... so..." it's a difficult choice. I don't feel there's really any wrong way but for my pick I just stuck to official and our dialogue script still calls her Terra, Sabin, etc.

In Final Fantasy XIV for example, they use the word Magitek (since the empire here is more or less 6's empire just with more Star Wars empire motifs), Terra's name is used for her song, yet Cyan's Theme is also used (the music title calling it that name), however, Cyan in this game is called by his Japanese name of Kaien (since 14 has its own version of Doma). So you have a mix of official English Woolsey terms here and then random official Japanese names thrown about.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 02, 2021, 12:53:29 am
Thanks! I think what I'm going to do is keep the Music Player titles basically the same and then in the Dev Room's music room I'll have it display those titles along with actual translations of the original Japanese titles. It'll cover the best of both words, basically.

Also, I looked into the Rage achievement bug and added a fix for it. It's not a clean, ideal fix but it gets the job done safely, similar to the Step Count achievement fix I made. Incidentally, does the Tonberry rage really not do anything? It's weird that you can fill up the Rage list except for the very last one at the very bottom right. I assume it's the way it is now for a reason though, so I guess my current fix is fine.

Another question: that big painting in the far back, how do you get paintings for it? I can see the various options you can get just from looking at the script, but I'm not sure how to actually unlock the painting options in the first place.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on April 02, 2021, 01:41:06 am
The far bottom right is empty on purpose, there's no rage there in T-Edition. Tonberry in this does Everyone's Grudge (damage+chance of Death proc).

The far back room with the single portrait is for the FF11 paintings, they're unlocked via the Zilart/Divine Might battles. The NPC there rotates them for you to I think a Mandragora, then the several female heroines of the game.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 05, 2021, 10:07:16 pm
I'm working through the song lyrics section of Bank 2 script text. Many of these are already in English, but I've noticed a typo or two without even having heard the songs. So I thought I'd ask - do you know already if there are any other significant mistakes in the lyrics?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on April 06, 2021, 01:44:46 am
Not off the top of my head, no. All I know is the music player some of the names have typos (just honest mistakes since Tsushiy isn't fluent in English).
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 09, 2021, 10:57:52 pm
I've taken a quick stab at the FFXI-related descriptions and I think I've got things correct, but since I've never played FFXI before, can someone more familiar with it fact-check these for me? (this is just a rough draft so there's weird phrasing, typos etc probably)

Ayame
FINAL FANTASY XI
Ayame is the fourth-ranked member of the Mythril Musketeers, an elite guard that serves the Bastokan president.
In Norg, Ayame undergoes training as a Samurai and eventually becomes the youngest Musketeer ever.
Her strict sense ofself-discipline is reflected in the words, "The katana exists to remain sheathed."


Curilla V Mecru
FINAL FANTASY XI
Curilla is the leader of the San d'Orian Temple Knights.
She is considered to be te finest swordsmaster in the kingdom, and is highly respected by her fellow knights.
Curilla injured her left eye while sparring with Prince Trion during a previous Sword Tournament.
However, she keeps this fact hidden to those around her.


Shantotto
FINAL FANTASY XI
Shantotto is one of the Three Professors of the Federation of Windurst.
As a former minister of the Orastery, she whips Ajido-Marujido into shape to become the current minister.
According to Hiwon-Biwon of Magic Paradise weekly, Shantotto is "as high-and-mighty as Yutungah's fiery mountain, and as rough-cut as the rocky Gustaberg Ranges-wanges."


Lion
FINAL FANTASY XI
Lion is a hume female from Norg who indepdently investigates the activities of the beastmen and Shadow Kindred.
She possesses a strong will and a cheerful personality.
Together with Aldo of the Tenshodo, the Dark Knight Zeid, and the Adventurer, Lion eventually facs off with a great evil that has operated from the shadows for 10,000 years.


Prishe
FINAL FANTASY XI
Prishe is an elven girl who lives in the Tavnazian Safehold and studies theology.
For certain dogmatic reasons, she was previously locked away in Tavnazia Cathedral as "the abhorrent one".
For a time, Prishe defended the citizens as one of the Safehold's patrol leaders.
After meeting the Adventurer, she eventually gets caught up in the conflict surrounding the Keeper of the Apocalypse.


Aphmau
FINAL FANTASY XI
Aphmau, also known as the Royal Puppeteer, is an innocent and pure-hearted Puppetmaster who serves Empress Nashmeira II.
She is accompanied by her friend Automatons, Mnejing and Ovjang.
In truth, Aphmau is none other than Nashmeira herself - the 16th Empress of Aht Urhgan's Majaab Dynasty.
However, the actual reins of government lie in the hands of her vizier and older brother, Razfahd.
While pursuing the Astral Candescence and a pirate ship, Aphmau learns the truth about the Empire.
Together with the Adventurer and the Pirate Luzaf, Aphmau sets out to prevent a Ragnarok war from occurring.


Lilisette
FINAL FANTASY XI
Lilisette is an elegant Dancer and member of Troupe Mayakov, a highly regarded dance group in Past Vana'diel.
As a particularly popular Dancer, she's commonly referred to as the "Moonshade Butterfly".
Just like the Adventurer, she has actually traveled 20 years into the past. By going back in time, she hopes to save her father.
At first, she pursues Cait Sith, a mystering being that might hold the secrets of Past Vana'diel.
As events progress, however, she and the Adventurer are caught up in a battle surrounding the Light Future and the Dark Future.


Arciela V Adoulin
FINAL FANTASY XI
Arciela is the younger sister of Ygnas, the Grand Chancellor of the Sacred City of Adoulin.
In front of others, Arciela carries the air of neatness, modesty and elegance.
The take-charge spirit she hides underneath, however, leads her to take action on her own, including investigating a forbidden forest.
As a direct descendent of the first king, she belongs to one of the Twelve Orders, but the people respect her and call her "Princess" anyway.
After the Adventurer arrives from the Middle Lands, Arciela eventually pursues the mystery of the Ulbukan continent.


Mandragora
FINAL FANTASY XI
A mobile, sentient plant commonly found in the Sarutabaruta region.
Whether it's their clothing, where they live, or their ability to communicate non-verbally, Mandragoran civilization is wholly unique.
Mandragoras could be considered a mascot of Final Fantasy XI.
They've since made appearancies in other releases, including Final Fantasy XII, the Chocobo's Dungeon series, and the Dissidia Final Fantasy series.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on April 10, 2021, 12:09:15 am
That's all spot on, having played FF11 for years I can assure you that's all correct, translations and all. Bunch of typos as you said, so just browse through to fix them :P
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 28, 2021, 08:05:13 pm
Since the music issues will be a big pain for people who aren't aware of them, I'm thinking of including a boot-up screen that mentions the issues, similar to what I did with my FF2c translation patch. Problem is, it looks pretty ugly and unprofessional right now:

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/misc/ff6t-english-powieur.png)

This is all displayed in BG Mode 0 and is actual text data rather than a big image converted to tiles. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve this lemme know. I'll try to improve it on my own but I don't have high hopes, heh.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Serity on July 29, 2021, 03:04:51 pm
Quite honestly, I don't really see an issue with that screen. Maybe a "Press A to continue" or something. It's not much different than the old GBA safety warnings other than it being a consistent font. Maybe hide it once at least one save file has been made (or if the readme points at a patch, if the patch is installed by LDA checking bytes that the patch edits).

(https://tcrf.net/images/f/fa/FF4GBA-HealthSafetyNA.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 29, 2021, 07:29:08 pm
Thanks, I'll try to put a "press any button" message in there and see how it looks. Here's what I have now after some adjustment last night.

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/misc/newer-splash.png)

It still feels unprofessional/warez-y/trainer-y/demo-y but I also don't want to put much work into it. The ideal solution would be to fix the broken music somehow but I think I'd go crazy trying to do that.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Kain Stryder on July 29, 2021, 08:00:08 pm
Sadly the solution to the music is you'd have to remake it completely, as the emulator Tsushiy used had unlimited ram audio or something (I'm not technical in that area, but had several SNES music people explain it to me). Alternatively, you can do the SNES9x sound fix Tsushiy suggest but in his own words "it still sounds off/not perfect" and I'm not sure how hardware would work. The only real work around to his music is MSU-1 which we released/have available, which fixes ALL the music issues currently (it plays the music how it should sound, as if you were on uosnes (the emulator he coded it for), if you'd like to use that in your work, you're more than welcome to it (we host the files and everything, so nothing on your end would be needed). I believe we just need to inject some code based on your translation patch but that's pretty simple. Lemme know if that's something you'd be interested in :)

Oh, and a cool feature we're still play testing (but works in another mod flawlessly right now, Brave New World), we have a patch to allow 4 player FF6 via multitap. We had some hilarious bugs pop up in BNW when testing, but it was an absolute blast doing 4 way co-op, each person controlling someone and we got it working on T-Edition. When we're sure it's 100%, I'm gonna offer it to the Japanese community in case they'd be interested in it. 4 player T-Edition with all its content and new game+ features just makes for a good time in my opinion and I'd love to see streams of it down the road or how people co-op with each other, sort of like a MMO. If this is also something you'd be interested in lemme know :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: KingMike on July 29, 2021, 08:41:05 pm
As I understand, the problem is that incorrect audio emulation assumes more RAM than is actually available, so on accurate emulation/hardware, the sound program overwrites itself and consequently crashes the APU.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 29, 2021, 09:37:05 pm
Oh, I know the source of the problem thanks to everyone's explanations, but I imagine some of it might be feasibly fixable by modifying the amount of data that gets loaded before playing glitchy songs. That's how I would look into fixing it if I had the time. Kind of like how if a text script overflows into unrelated data, one solution is to trim the text until things do fit.

Speaking of which, a month or two ago during a stream I showed off my current build of T-Edition's translation. For some reason, enemies would just die immediately though, which confused me. It turns out my Bank 2 script had overflowed into some enemy data. Luckily I was able to get around the problem without any trimming.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Ballz on August 01, 2021, 02:22:27 am
Thanks, I'll try to put a "press any button" message in there and see how it looks. Here's what I have now after some adjustment last night.

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/misc/newer-splash.png)

It still feels unprofessional/warez-y/trainer-y/demo-y but I also don't want to put much work into it. The ideal solution would be to fix the broken music somehow but I think I'd go crazy trying to do that.

Any thoughts about giving it a background, maybe something simple like one of the battle landscapes?  Maybe have it be sepia-toned or something like that so the text pops over it more easily.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on August 01, 2021, 06:58:18 pm
Any thoughts about giving it a background, maybe something simple like one of the battle landscapes?  Maybe have it be sepia-toned or something like that so the text pops over it more easily.

I second this! That's a nice simple way to give that screen more life.
Maybe even make a background based on the intro sequence.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Masaru on August 02, 2021, 01:31:59 pm
How much is done?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: TheChristoph on August 02, 2021, 08:58:35 pm
Since the music issues will be a big pain for people who aren't aware of them, I'm thinking of including a boot-up screen that mentions the issues, similar to what I did with my FF2c translation patch. Problem is, it looks pretty ugly and unprofessional right now:

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/misc/ff6t-english-powieur.png)

This is all displayed in BG Mode 0 and is actual text data rather than a big image converted to tiles. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve this lemme know. I'll try to improve it on my own but I don't have high hopes, heh.

I think this is very charming.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on August 02, 2021, 11:41:28 pm
Great work on translating FF6 T-Edition Tomato! :)

Ever since this was brought to my attention I've been waiting and looking forward to your project's completion so that I can finally give T-Edition a go! :thumbsup:

Cheers!! :beer:

8.bit.fan
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on August 05, 2021, 09:12:37 pm
Status-wise, I'm in the early testing phase, I've been streaming it on Twitch the past weekend or two.

I discovered that my splash screen code was causing the Equip menu to glitch out, so I decided to drop that idea since it was mostly someone else's code that I didn't fully understand myself. Instead, I decided to make a standard game text box open before the title screen panning, etc. so that I can then share info about the patch.

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/media/misc/splash-box.png)

I've got it displaying properly, but for some reason, the game doesn't always recognize the A button when the the text box is showing, meaning it's not possible to progress the text/close the the box with the A button. Other times, it doesn't recognize other buttons. Sometimes, it doesn't recognize any buttons. WTF? This weirdness seems to change if you reset or reload the ROM, but I can't figure out why this happens. I've checked/watched/set various controller-related registers but with no luck.

Has anyone other FF6 hacker encountered this problem before? Basically, my custom title event script code now looks more like:

$96 (fade in)
$4b,$00,$80 (display Bank 0, Line 0, at bottom of screen)
$b2,$29,$5e,$00 (jump to the pre-existing title screen event script at $ca5e29 as is normal for FF6T)
$fe (return)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Everything on August 06, 2021, 07:37:54 pm
By any chance did you modify the event script at CA/0001? Event command 4B has a hard-coded jump to a short subroutine at CA/0001 to make it wait for the dialog window to close.

Or maybe you need to add or remove character 0x12 (wait for keypress) at the end of your dialog message?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on August 06, 2021, 11:14:35 pm
Take a look at the original dialog scripts for the opening cutscene. They all have an ending character that allows them to be used either as a dialog you need to press "A" to advance, or as a dialog that clears automatically if it's part of attract mode. (In FF3usME, this character is listed as "<P>"). The event bits that controls these is either 2FE or 2FF (1EDD bits 6 or 7).

If I had to hazard a guess, when you reset the game, something happens to these bits that messes with how you have the new dialog box set up. Maybe it won't register the A button being pressed unless you have $2FF set?

You can check out the event that 2FE/2FF affect at CA/5E33. This is the event that shows the title screen and decides whether or not to go into attract mode. The actual cutscene where the dialog appears and is either cleared automatically or with a button press starts at CC/985E.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: Everything on August 07, 2021, 02:09:33 pm
PowerPanda might be on the right track (I think they meant 1EDF instead of 1EDD?).

Another idea, maybe the joypad settings aren't initialized when the message appears? Try forcing bit 6 of $1D54 to be zero when the game is reset (before the joypad gets initialized at C0/0053). That will force it to load the default button mapping when it reads the joypad.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on August 09, 2021, 01:10:18 pm
PowerPanda might be on the right track (I think they meant 1EDF instead of 1EDD?).

I did indeed mean 1EDF. Thanks for that catch.