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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on February 25, 2020, 06:55:49 am

Title: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: RHDNBot on February 25, 2020, 06:55:49 am
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2331a.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5416/) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2331b.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5416/)

Update By: Polinym

Polinym has released the first-ever translation of the unlocalized Dragon Quest for the Famicom.

Dragon Warrior/Dragon Quest is essentially the father of the modern JRPG. It follows the story of a hero, descendant of the legendary Loto the Brave, who must slay the villainous Dragon King, rescue Princess Laura, reclaim the Light Orb, and restore peace to Alefgard.

One day Polinym noticed that no had ever translated the original before. After looking and seeing that it was not too difficult a task, he wondered why no one had done this before, and took it upon himself to translate the entire game.

The goal was to be as accurate to the original as possible, given the space provided, technical restrictions, and Polinym's beginner/intermediate knowledge of Japanese.

Because an already localized and fantastic version called Dragon Warrior already exists, little to no attempts were made to localize or change existing content and is thus not a "Woolsey Fan Company" project. Rather, this was just a personal project because of Polinym's fondness for the Dragon Warrior series.

Also included in addition to the pure translation patch is the "Quick EXP" patch, which grants large amounts of experience and gold after every fight and alleviates the need to grind.

Polinym also created a basic trailer to show off the translation and what the game is about, which can be found on YouTube here: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSx2BO8nyI ), or in the RELATED LINK.

RHDN Project Page (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5416/)

Relevant Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSx2BO8nyI)
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: roney33 on February 25, 2020, 07:48:39 am
that's fantastic, do you have plans to make some in dragon quest 2?
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on February 25, 2020, 08:03:16 am
Oh god this is amazing ! Did they manage to translate the password system somehow ? Also

Quote
included in addition to the pure translation patch is the "Quick EXP" patch, which grants large amounts of experience and gold after every fight and alleviates the need to grind.
They should do that for the entiere series, considering how grind-tedious the DQ series as a whole is.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Special on February 25, 2020, 10:55:04 am
Love that trailer, lol at the last bit. Literally in all JRPG's that will happen to you.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: mziab on February 25, 2020, 11:01:54 am
A typo in the battle messages seems to have slipped through the cracks: recieves should be receives.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Alduram on February 25, 2020, 01:42:36 pm
Nice!

Even though this game has been upgraded for the American release, it is always good to play a game the closest possible to it's original form, specially when it's so different (the way the character moves in this version reminds me a lot of the Ultima games, which indeed served as an inspiration for Dragon Quest to begin with). I have tried to play this version in Japanese once but I quickly gave up.

Now I have the perfect reason to replay this game.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Polinym on February 25, 2020, 08:00:05 pm
A typo in the battle messages seems to have slipped through the cracks: recieves should be receives.
I just went in, fixed the typo, and resubmitted. Thanks for pointing it out! I can't believe I didn't notice. I guess it's just one of those lines where once you know the formatting's okay, it just goes over your head.

Oh god this is amazing ! Did they manage to translate the password system somehow ? Also
They should do that for the entiere series, considering how grind-tedious the DQ series as a whole is.
Yes, I did translate the password system! It was a little strange and a hassle to fix, but somehow I managed to do it. If I do any more of the famicom DQ games, I'll be sure to consider more EXP patches.

that's fantastic, do you have plans to make some in dragon quest 2?
I may do DQ II or III. I have to look into seeing what I can do about the compression, as DQ I seems to be the only one with an uncompressed font. I don't know if I'll be able to "work my magic" like I had to with the additional compressed font that only showed up in the final boss fight. If anyone knows how to deal with font compression and can help me overcome that hurdle somehow, let me know! :)
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Dwedit on February 25, 2020, 08:25:19 pm
The font used during the final boss fight is not compressed, it is two different fonts on separate bit planes.

(https://i.imgur.com/PzfseRL.png)

Here we see the CHR-ROM bank from the combined Dragonlord Fight/Title Screen font, and it looks so weird.  But it's actually adding two different images together, and using a specific palette so that the other font is not shown.

Here's the same character set when viewed in 1bpp mode:

(https://i.imgur.com/tUHbDMh.png)

So use YY-CHR, and switch to 1bpp mode, and you can edit the second font much more easily.  Note that you can right-drag to copy-paste an entire column at a time.

You can also set the view mode to 8x16 sprites, and then you will even see the font in horizontal rows:

(https://i.imgur.com/M4iOq3s.png)


===========================================

Meanwhile, DQ2's font is packed as 1bpp tiles, but is not compressed:

(https://i.imgur.com/7fW8F6q.png)

Here's DQ3's font (1bpp, not compressed)

(https://i.imgur.com/DfhxJXl.png)

Here's DQ4's font (1bpp, not compressed)

(https://i.imgur.com/54OTmn1.png)
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Polinym on February 25, 2020, 11:09:35 pm
Ah, that makes more sense. Seems I have much to learn. I had figured out that it was two overlaying images, but I just assumed that was a form of compression. Thank you! Now I can look into translating the other games!
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 26, 2020, 07:42:09 am
Congrats on putting this together! You may be aware that I worked on something similar over a year ago but this goes a step further in terms of translating the actual Japanese rom without any of the western improvements / alterations.

I've played some of it and have a few observations and pieces of feedback. The language in general seems to be pretty phrase for phrase from the Japanese, which can come across a bit choppy but everything is readable. I was very surprised to see that you added some equipment symbols as a solution for character space limitations. A bit of impurity there, but I can understand the importance if you aren't going to expand character allowances.

From what I've seen of monster names so far, I like your efforts to retranslate. Some of your choices like Slimess were options that we strongly considered before going another route. Preserving the Japanese spell names was also something we weighed heavily before attempting to represent the fragments of meaning in the Japanese words. I really enjoy that there is now a version for the ultra purist as opposed to the Delocalized versions which are an attempt to more render a more respectful translation in English while preserving many western improvements.

One problem I noted so far. When I was given a password, the screen glitched out. If you can't reproduce it I can send you a pic.

So overall, awesome job. I look forward to playing the rest and seeing how you handled all the monster names. FYI, I'm also giving this project some press in the 7000+ Dragon Questers FB group.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on February 26, 2020, 03:37:16 pm
The password can definitely glitch, at least when talking to His Majesty the king. I didn't try to put a return spell yet. But apparently it glitches when printing a special caracter on the screen which also acts as a control caracter, then it starts a new line and it overflows from the box and glitches the BG.

Probably to be usable the password system would have to use less characters and use longer password to compensate for that, but neededless to say this would require hevy romhacking, and then it'd be less faithful to the original.

I'm also fairly sure the original could have passwords that had actual meaning in japanese. I even think this is the format of haiku poems so some actual poems acts like cheat code for the game.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Polinym on February 26, 2020, 06:51:50 pm
I'm not sure what's going on with the passwords glitch. The only thing I can think of is that my late addition to the game's dictionary (it uses dictionary compression) screwed up the bytes that get pulled for making passwords. However, that doesn't make any sense, because to my understanding the game should only use bytes for the password that you can actually type in. I set up the dictionary in such a way that the 20 "password" bytes are in the right spots to show up on the password screen. In this case, the "password bytes" in the dictionary should be the numbers, ? ! * [> \/ , and mnopq.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qeUe7ELe2TI/XlcCq-Bw-tI/AAAAAAAAAGA/MwL8lI-a0yI6NyyOjXLIePWVP8J7xz8fgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/password.png)
The only other theory I have is that needing too much experience to get to the next level causes the line "<NMB> experience" to overflow and run into the box, and from my experience, overflowing lines cause graphical issues. If you are experiencing any kind of text overflow, let me know. I really hope it's the second problem, as it's much easier to fix.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on February 27, 2020, 02:05:17 am
If you are experiencing any kind of text overflow, let me know. I really hope it's the second problem, as it's much easier to fix.
Well, when starting a new game just quit the room after getting all chests, climb stairs again and talk to the king. That should trigger the glitch. (However after picking fights and levelling up the glitch disapears.)

This makes me want to reverse-engineer the password system.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 27, 2020, 04:03:26 am
I was still experiencing it at level 3.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on April 29, 2020, 05:01:46 am
So, I've successfull hacked Dragon Quest to use passwords made of 24 symbols of 5-bits instead of 20 symbols of 6-bits. This would allow to make this translated version have passwords which are usable for international players, and that we can actually write down to a sheet of paper. (The password system in itself remains completely unchanged, it's just how the same 120-bits are converted from/to symbols who changes)

(http://www.romhacking.net/scratchpad/28857/)

Now the question is:

Should I release it as an addendum hack for this translation, or is Polinym interested in integreating this in a future version of his translation ?

PS : Also ther's a graphical overflow from the box when restoring a valid password, and I'm fairly confident this was introduced by the translation and not by my password hack.
(http://www.romhacking.net/scratchpad/28856/)
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Polinym on April 29, 2020, 11:53:23 am
Sounds cool! So, does the new password system produce passwords that are translations of the original passwords?
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on April 29, 2020, 04:10:35 pm
It's not a new password system it's the same password system but encoded differently. 15 bytes are encoded into 24 characters of 5-bit (32 character set) instead of 20 characters of 6-bit (64 character set). Please refer to this nesdev thread (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19968) for a better understanding on the password system.

Right now for the quick hack I use letters A-Z and numbers 4-9 (because 0 can be confused with O, and 1 with I, and 2 with Z). But this could be easily changed.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Polinym on April 29, 2020, 04:49:05 pm
So if the passwords are still just a random assortment of letters and numbers, I don't think I'm going to add it to my translation. The purpose of my translation wasn't really to improve the game, but just be a basic translation of the Japanese. My only concern with the password system was making sure it was still functional. I'm aware some characters can be confused with other characters, and it's not too hard a fix, but honestly... it's too funny thinking about how the one pixel difference between an " I " and an " l " is gonna mess people up! :P

People shouldn't even really be needing the password system anyway. Save states are much simpler, and Dragon Quest isn't a long game. People can even screenshot the password on an emulator and have it open in Windows Photo Viewer if they simply must use passwords.

If you want to make it an addendum patch to it, feel free.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on April 29, 2020, 05:44:54 pm
OK; thanks for answering.

Actually initially I was very curious about an RPG using a password system and found the concept awesome. Now that I know how it works I'm a little disappointed, I expected something amazing and mytical somehow using actual japanese words, but no it's a very simple and crude password system.

Having it using letters might give a better idea how the password system would work if the game was localized using it (instead of battery saves). And in all cases there will be coincidal passwords working it appears :)
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: abw on April 29, 2020, 09:41:42 pm
Should I release it as an addendum hack for this translation, or is Polinym interested in integreating this in a future version of his translation ?
Out of curiosity, is there anything in your hack that's specific to this translation or any reason not to release it as a standalone hack for the original game?

Having it using letters might give a better idea how the password system would work if the game was localized using it (instead of battery saves). And in all cases there will be coincidal passwords working it appears :)
+1 for this; even without switching from 20 to 24 symbols, tweaking the password screen to use A-Z, a-z, 0-9, and 2 other characters, maybe ? and !, instead of icons would be a nice improvement.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on April 30, 2020, 06:28:15 am
Out of curiosity, is there anything in your hack that's specific to this translation or any reason not to release it as a standalone hack for the original game?
No, but since the original game uses kana, there's no reason to change the password system. In the translation, it's difficult to have 64 reconizable characters we can unambigiously write down.

Quote
+1 for this; even without switching from 20 to 24 symbols, tweaking the password screen to use A-Z, a-z, 0-9, and 2 other characters, maybe ? and !, instead of icons would be a nice improvement.
That's in the realm of possible but the original games encode characters in two "chunks" of linarly contigious ranges. With the symbols you mention, using the tiles as in the translation, it would require 4 "chunks", 0-9, A--r, s-z and a 4th chunk for the last 2 characters unless you accpet "." and "," as the special characters. Increasing the amount of "chunk" from 2 to 4 would require extra assembly code, so extra hacking effort.

The hack I'm working on keep the 2 "chunks", one being A-Z and the other 4-9. I might reconsider the characters.

That's not even mentionning, there's many confusion from mixed case passwords, I always hated mixed-case passwords and I prefer having a single case password even if it's longer. Mixed-case is OK for unambibious cases, such as A-a, D-d, Q-q, H-h, etc... But it's evil for ambigious cases such as C-c, K-k, V-v, W-w, Z-z, etc... Those letters just look the same in upper and lower case, especially when writing them down by hand.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: abw on April 30, 2020, 05:23:50 pm
That's not even mentionning, there's many confusion from mixed case passwords, I always hated mixed-case passwords and I prefer having a single case password even if it's longer. Mixed-case is OK for unambibious cases, such as A-a, D-d, Q-q, H-h, etc... But it's evil for ambigious cases such as C-c, K-k, V-v, W-w, Z-z, etc... Those letters just look the same in upper and lower case, especially when writing them down by hand.
Agreed. Even on a computer, not every font makes it easy to tell the difference between those characters :(.

If you switched to 30 4-bit characters, you could both simplify the code and use only upper-case letters. Best of both worlds! Based on English letter frequencies, using E-T would probably give you the best chance for generating meaningful words.
Title: Re: Translations: Original Dragon Quest Translated!
Post by: Bregalad on May 19, 2020, 03:18:46 pm
So, the password fix hack is eventually released. Enjoy !
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5554/ (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5554/)

Quote
If you are experiencing any kind of text overflow, let me know.
This happens whenever you're resuming your game from a password, and whenever you have enough EXP to be level 30.