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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Chronosplit on January 01, 2019, 05:40:56 pm

Title: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Chronosplit on January 01, 2019, 05:40:56 pm
Maybe even hex editors?  I'm going to post a reddit link here, because there's no news in english about the whole thing.  It has reports linked in Japanese: https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/abk551/save_game_editors_and_console_modding_now_illegal/
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Orochi Kusanagi on January 01, 2019, 06:06:39 pm
That's not really surprising to me. With many games basically being online only or heavily online based and with trophies/achievements, cheating devices don't really have a proper place anymore since they can effect other people now.

As for fear mongering of being arrested, like anything else, just don't sell your modded systems on Yahoo Auctions or Ebay. Nothing will happen if you mod your own stuff for personal use... no one would know.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Jorpho on January 01, 2019, 08:28:55 pm
This is nuts.  If it's true, it has all kinds of disturbing implications for privacy and right-to-repair and so on.  I think I'd prefer to wait and see what takes come out in the international news.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on January 01, 2019, 08:45:37 pm
Not even a day has passed in 2019 and disgraces are already happenin'. *sigh* Japan...
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: # on January 01, 2019, 09:36:31 pm
That's not really surprising to me. With many games basically being online only or heavily online based and with trophies/achievements, cheating devices don't really have a proper place anymore since they can effect other people now.

As for fear mongering of being arrested, like anything else, just don't sell your modded systems on Yahoo Auctions or Ebay. Nothing will happen if you mod your own stuff for personal use... no one would know.
And many of those people spend real money on those games, so laws like this were to be expected. In fact several western countries have banned cheating/pirating devices in the past as well, though usually on a smaller scale.

Maybe even hex editors?
No, this doesn't affect hex editors at all, excluding any special hex editors (created or hosted in Japan) made specifically to pirate games or modify game saves(for modern online games). :D
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: POWCo-op on January 01, 2019, 09:42:20 pm
That's not really surprising to me. With many games basically being online only or heavily online based and with trophies/achievements, cheating devices don't really have a proper place anymore since they can effect other people now.

As for fear mongering of being arrested, like anything else, just don't sell your modded systems on Yahoo Auctions or Ebay. Nothing will happen if you mod your own stuff for personal use... no one would know.
But a personal save file for a single player game, even if it is in the cloud, can't affect anyone else. I wonder what the law is all about.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Orochi Kusanagi on January 01, 2019, 11:28:24 pm
But a personal save file for a single player game, even if it is in the cloud, can't affect anyone else. I wonder what the law is all about.

But those same devices can be used for games that do go online though. If you pass a law, you can't really say "you can use this device for this game, but not this game!"

Japanese companies have also been cracking down on modded APKs for mobile games. I can name a lot of games that go on mass ban sprees when people start blatantly cheating on things that have leaderboards, etc.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: FAST6191 on January 02, 2019, 09:58:27 am
Sad news but I had long written off Japanese IP law anyway (they are one of the two places to have software patents for starters).

But those same devices can be used for games that do go online though. If you pass a law, you can't really say "you can use this device for this game, but not this game!"

In this case I would rather prosecute actions than tools, especially those with "substantial non infringing uses".
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: tc on January 02, 2019, 10:12:21 am
But a personal save file for a single player game, even if it is in the cloud, can't affect anyone else. I wonder what the law is all about.

Save files can be used as exploits, and arbitrary code execution is an avenue to piracy.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Psyklax on January 02, 2019, 10:21:09 am
Okay, my two cents and then I'm out.

First, if you don't live in Japan, why should this affect you?

Second, there's a difference between law and enforcement. Just because a law is on the books, it doesn't mean people will get in trouble for it. Where I live, it's apparently against the law to talk on your mobile while driving, but if you stood at the side of a busy road and counted how many people are doing it, you'd lose count.

I don't know if anyone here watches this guy, but he posted a video today with a comment that seems quite apropos:
https://youtu.be/JUZqSHQQ9j8?t=327 (https://youtu.be/JUZqSHQQ9j8?t=327)

Maybe people need to chill out for a second. 8)
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: NERV Agent on January 02, 2019, 07:50:04 pm
I blame microtransactions.

Got Metal Gear Solid V and wanna use a cheat program to get ahead in the game? Oh noes! That means you don't have to pay Konami moneh for that microtransaction where the game is finished for you! Well, I guess that means you gotta bend over and get your ass whipped by a Belmont if Konami finds out you're "cheating" on a single player campaign game!
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: FAST6191 on January 02, 2019, 08:28:41 pm
Okay, my two cents and then I'm out.

First, if you don't live in Japan, why should this affect you?

Second, there's a difference between law and enforcement. Just because a law is on the books, it doesn't mean people will get in trouble for it. Where I live, it's apparently against the law to talk on your mobile while driving, but if you stood at the side of a busy road and counted how many people are doing it, you'd lose count.

I don't know if anyone here watches this guy, but he posted a video today with a comment that seems quite apropos:
https://youtu.be/JUZqSHQQ9j8?t=327 (https://youtu.be/JUZqSHQQ9j8?t=327)

Maybe people need to chill out for a second. 8)

I have never quite got the "if you don't live in X" line of thought when discussing law. The only thing it is likely to do is make it more pertinent.

In this case Japan is still just about a major game manufacturing country, and if they stopped messing around they have one of the best IP catalogues of anywhere, certainly countries several times their size in most other arenas. Japanese hackers are fewer in number than some other places but I have met several, and Japan does fairly well for technical education/culture so I don't want to see further developments strangled (I don't know if you ever met the thing where Japanese people almost self/community police IP matters, fan art being a fun one there).

When talking about the US we tend to see them try to take the results on tour but Japan mostly spares us this one.

People routinely get ticketed for driving with a phone, it is considered an aggravating factor in cases and more besides. I would not make that analogy, not to mention it remains to be seen. A better thing might be to imagine what kind of parallels might be drawn -- in the UK it was technically illegal until fairly recently (and even then I am not sure what goes) to do format shifting, US law is also somewhat contentious here. Nobody got pinged for ripping their CD to an MP3 though.
Though in this case it is a new law, and Japan does feature a fairly serious measure of precedent, so it is up in the air. I am also wary as many times we have some seen obscure law come back to bite people in the arse, and then you face arguing foundational law to try to overturn it.

Going even beyond that am I am not allowed to feel for my fellow man (and their freedoms), judge a country's laws as far as wanting to do business/travel/live there or buy their products/take their investments?

Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Bregalad on January 03, 2019, 01:06:12 pm
First, if you don't live in Japan, why should this affect you?
Because this might make ideas for politicians and lobbies in other countries as well.


Quote
Second, there's a difference between law and enforcement. Just because a law is on the books, it doesn't mean people will get in trouble for it. Where I live, it's apparently against the law to talk on your mobile while driving, but if you stood at the side of a busy road and counted how many people are doing it, you'd lose count.
Alas it's the same here. I wish they'd enforce this law and stop people from driving like jackasses and fine them, but apparently the police don't care about that.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: KingMike on January 03, 2019, 08:52:28 pm
Where do you live that the police won't jump at the chance to fine someone? :D

That's like, all that American cops will seem to do. Fine or arrest people. :P
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Jorpho on January 04, 2019, 01:54:23 am
PC Gamer's headline is that reselling game keys without permission will be illegal.
https://www.pcgamer.com/reselling-game-keys-without-permission-is-now-illegal-in-japan/
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Bregalad on January 04, 2019, 05:44:55 am
Where do you live that the police won't jump at the chance to fine someone? :D
Well I live in switzerland. And don't worry they fine people who drive too fast or those who pass red light or those who are drunk (thankfully), and the parking restrictions are enforced very strictly. But alas they don't fine people who drive aggressively, too close to eachother or phone even though they should. Where's the logic ? I have no idea.

Quote
That's like, all that American cops will seem to do. Fine or arrest people. :P
Well isn't that like what they're supposed to do ? Also American cops have probably the worst job in the western-developed world as there is legally armed people everywhere which makes it much harder than guarding a country where only dangerous bandits are armed like the rest of the western-civilized world - which is probably why they're so much more aggressive than cops in other countries.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: SleepyFist on January 04, 2019, 12:22:53 pm
This could have nasty ripple effects over here, if the big game companies/publishers over here try to pull that shit its pretty likely that the US govt will be too busy trying to gnaw its own legs off to give it a second glance before putting a stamp on it.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: werewolfslayr925 on January 04, 2019, 04:59:18 pm
Hope this is kosher to comment here considering the controversial nature of the subreddit:

I found this response on KotakuInAction which counters the stuff from r/emulation. (https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/ac63rm/ethics_there_is_no_evidence_that_save_game/) Essentially, it's nonsense.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: NERV Agent on January 05, 2019, 07:55:41 am
Also American cops have probably the worst job in the western-developed world as there is legally armed people everywhere which makes it much harder than guarding a country where only dangerous bandits are armed like the rest of the western-civilized world - which is probably why they're so much more aggressive than cops in other countries.

This is a digression but as someone who lives in the US I have to point out how grossly incorrect this is.

Trying to get a gun in some states is damn near impossible. Hell, even just buying gun accessories (not the actual guns or bullets) like pistol grips and such are illegal in CA and I am not fucking kidding as I know this from first hand experience.

Even carrying non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and a taser will get your ass thrown in jail in some places. It even happened to someone I knew in college.

And in some places even carrying a fucking Swiss Army knife will get you in jail. I guess I missed that episode of MacGyver when Mac goes on a killing spree with a Swiss Army knife, but someone high up thinks in can happen apparently. Well, if it's on a plane I can understand, but just walking down a road and minding your own business? I know someone who was hassled by the popo for this, too.

Yes, that means that if an unarmed woman (or man) with no combat skills is walking down a dark alley and some horny thugs pop up, it's gonna be like the first episode of Goblin Slayer. Sure, they can call the police, but in the meantime they will have to endure some forced surprise secks until the cops show up.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Kallisto on January 05, 2019, 10:50:02 am
I blame microtransactions.

Got Metal Gear Solid V and wanna use a cheat program to get ahead in the game? Oh noes! That means you don't have to pay Konami moneh for that microtransaction where the game is finished for you! Well, I guess that means you gotta bend over and get your ass whipped by a Belmont if Konami finds out you're "cheating" on a single player campaign game!

This is probably one of the most logical conclusions, Corporations has really been getting desperate to make a profit for the past few years now and with all the nonsense they been trying to shove through politicians to get what they want.

The Entertainment Industry is losing their fangs, and now they're trying to find a way to screw over people with other methods.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Chronosplit on January 05, 2019, 02:57:50 pm
This is probably one of the most logical conclusions, Corporations has really been getting desperate to make a profit for the past few years now and with all the nonsense they been trying to shove through politicians to get what they want.

The Entertainment Industry is losing their fangs, and now they're trying to find a way to screw over people with other methods.
The timing tells me that this is true.  Japan's been getting more into PC games and Steam, apparently.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: Bregalad on January 06, 2019, 03:17:07 pm
Quote
Trying to get a gun in some states is damn near impossible. Hell, even just buying gun accessories (not the actual guns or bullets) like pistol grips and such are illegal in CA and I am not fucking kidding as I know this from first hand experience.
If I'm not mistaken, there's no border crossing checks betweens united states. This means even if some states are extremely restrictive like you're describing, people could just drive from a state which is highly pro-gun and job done... Much easier than trick an international border check, so much less safe even for the states with strongs regulations you're mentioning.

Also regulations on swiss knives, if true, is ridiculous. I've heard they're designed specifically so that you can't kill someone with them. Either way it's bad for buisness here so that's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: POWCo-op on January 06, 2019, 10:12:28 pm
The United States is full of gun freakery and gun selling. Shiny coins make people happy. Especially when those people are getting them in exchange for selling a gun. That's true no matter where you are. Even if you don't see guns displayed in racks at Walmart, you'll be able to get one without hassle anywhere. You can buy a danish as easily.  :cookie:
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: NERV Agent on January 08, 2019, 06:12:23 am
Also regulations on swiss knives, if true, is ridiculous. I've heard they're designed specifically so that you can't kill someone with them. Either way it's bad for buisness here so that's ridiculous.

In certain zones under a "magistrate jurisdiction", they can enforce a rule that says any blade longer than 5 inches* is a lethal weapon.

Otherwise, back on topic.

Game save editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan, but lolicon is still A-OK. The Japanese sure do have their priorities straight....

*Material for a penis joke.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: FAST6191 on January 08, 2019, 07:01:53 am
In certain zones under a "magistrate jurisdiction", they can enforce a rule that says any blade longer than 5 inches* is a lethal weapon.

Otherwise, back on topic.

Game save editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan, but lolicon is still A-OK. The Japanese sure do have their priorities straight....

*Material for a penis joke.

What harm would the latter be doing that means its banning, or lack thereof as the case may be, is such a pressing matter?
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: POWCo-op on January 08, 2019, 11:27:56 am
The timing tells me that this is true.  Japan's been getting more into PC games and Steam, apparently.
Are you sure? Because PlayStation Vita is still doing pretty well in Japan.
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: NERV Agent on January 10, 2019, 01:56:43 am
What harm would the latter be doing that means its banning, or lack thereof as the case may be, is such a pressing matter?

Boku No Pico is an animated cinematic masterpiece for all ages, with complex themes and character development along with gorgeous visuals rivaling the works of Hayao Miyazaki, "Neon Genesis Evangelion", and "Corey in the House".

Sit down and watch it in the company of friends and family! Bonus points if any of them work for law enforcement!
Title: Re: Game Save Editing and game cheat devices are now illegal in Japan.
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on January 10, 2019, 10:56:57 pm
Boku No Pico is an animated cinematic masterpiece for all ages, with complex themes and character development along with gorgeous visuals rivaling the works of Hayao Miyazaki, "Neon Genesis Evangelion", and "Corey in the House".

Sit down and watch it in the company of friends and family! Bonus points if any of them work for law enforcement!
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

Spoiler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA)