Romhacking.net

General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: magictrufflez on July 24, 2018, 09:48:41 pm

Title: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: magictrufflez on July 24, 2018, 09:48:41 pm
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-07-23-nintendo-files-copyright-infringement-lawsuit-against-loverom-and-loveretro

And here's the official legal filing if anyone's interested (it's only 27 pages):

https://torrentfreak.com/images/nintendo-loveroms.pdf

Obviously Nintendo doesn't like emulation, but I get the feeling they went after these sites because 1. they could easily trace everything back to a single individual and 2. that person was apparently monetizing the daylights out of his sites (I'd never heard of either until today, so I don't know what the sites were like).

I'd definitely be interested to hear if other folks here have a take on this--is this the end of the world, or is this just a kind of outlier?
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Chronosplit on July 24, 2018, 10:35:41 pm
Honestly, I've never even heard of the second site listed at all.  Maybe someone reported them?

This is obviously an overt show of power and nothing more, almost always Nintendo just does the normal DMCA.  Then again, maybe that's because of what happened when a certain site was told by Nintendo to take down all mario and such around the time the SNES Classic started.  The result was that the site put everything back up later, and now it's as if nothing ever happened.  That was a big deal and was mentioned here too, remembering back.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on July 25, 2018, 05:05:37 am
Another month, another ROM site smackdown.

Is it not just how the game is played? It has been the case since before I joined this internet lark and will likely be the case for a long time to come.

Also "1. they could easily trace everything back to a single individual"... that was US resident and hosting.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: magictrufflez on July 25, 2018, 07:55:09 am
This is obviously an overt show of power and nothing more, almost always Nintendo just does the normal DMCA.  Then again, maybe that's because of what happened when a certain site was told by Nintendo to take down all mario and such around the time the SNES Classic started.  The result was that the site put everything back up later, and now it's as if nothing ever happened.  That was a big deal and was mentioned here too, remembering back.

Not inaccurate, but IIRC Nintendo didn't pursue damages then--I believe someone pegged the max damages Nintendo could be awarded in this case in the billions of dollars. That pretty much ensures these sites (and sites that want to risk openly advertising that they host this stuff) are not coming back.

After reading the brief, it actually looks like the guy's sites were real outliers--the guy obviously went well overboard displaying copyrighted material, moreso than any other site I've seen, and who knows how much ad revenue he could've been making off the millions of hits his pages got?

It makes me cautiously optimistic this isn't going to lead to some kind of mass crackdown, TBH.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Mister Xiado on July 25, 2018, 09:47:01 pm
Who knew that putting ads on a site that distributes ROMs would attract the stink-eye from the most litigious publisher in the past century?
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: PolishedTurd on July 26, 2018, 08:03:35 am
I wish Nintendo would learn from the mistakes of the music and movie industries nearly 20 years ago: The cat is out of the bag when it comes to passing their data around, so monetize that behavior instead of vainly trying to stop it.

They had the right idea with Mario Maker - empowering people to do what they clearly want to do, for Nintendo's profit. If this site is any indication, they should also produce Zelda Maker, Mega Man Maker, Metroid Maker, Castlevania Maker...
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Psyklax on July 26, 2018, 08:47:19 am
Some "important sites", you say... can't say I've heard of either of them.

I mean really, why is this news? This back-and-forth with ROM sites has been happening for over 20 years. If you're really keen on having a copy of every 8- and 16-bit game ever made on your hard disk, you've had 20 years to get them. Who cares if some asshole who profits off this gets closed down?

You'd have to be born yesterday to think this is the "end of the world". There's been software piracy since before the internet, both hackers and producers have been playing this cat and mouse game forever, and so shall it continue henceforth unto eternity.

Apropos of this, I highly recommend this episode of the Computer Chronicles from JANUARY NINETEEN EIGHTY-FIVE which discusses the issue of software piracy, and you'll find that nothing has really changed.
https://archive.org/details/Software1985 (https://archive.org/details/Software1985)
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on July 26, 2018, 02:24:31 pm
I mean really, why is this news?
The notion of a smackdown is not news and for the most part I don't personally care about specifics (they are all utterly interchangeable, except when they are worse than they need to be) either. However if someone wants to share about specifics I can't say I would protest about that either.

Nice link by the way, if we are doing such things then I will have to also link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCAL_YgYiP0
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: magictrufflez on July 26, 2018, 05:18:20 pm
Some "important sites", you say... can't say I've heard of either of them.

Well, neither have I, but I wrote "apparently important sites" in lieu of the actual site names to avoid getting smacked down for sharing sites that actively host ROMs. Us not knowing about them also doesn't change the fact that those sites apparently got ~17 million hits monthly--that's nothing to sneeze at, especially for a ROM site.

I think this instance is important because it could set a pretty clear bar for what game companies are willing (or able) to prosecute. I'd be interested if anyone knew any other cases of a company suing for this much in damages--I know companies have sent out cease and desist letters and have certainly shut sites down somewhat frequently, but I really can't recall anything close to this level of severity.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Cahos Rahne Veloza on July 27, 2018, 06:54:30 am
I apologize in advance for hijacking this topic discussion instead of starting my own thread but seeing as my question relates to the matter at hand which is Nintendo being an a~hole as usual I decided to just ask here.

Anyhoo I just found out that -excised- is also one of the victims of these take down crap from Nintendo, well technically the site is still up but they had to take down a huge chunk of their Nintendo related downloads. -excised with prejudice- nope nope nope see Forum Rule 2 regarding piracy
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: CrocMagnum on July 27, 2018, 08:29:32 am
...Anyhoo I just found out that -excised- is also one of the victims of these take down crap from Nintendo, well technically the site is still up but they had to take down a huge chunk of their Nintendo related downloads...

They are not victims, first -excised- didn't receive a Cease-and-Desist from Big N. :)

They just removed these files of their own free will just to avoid potential trouble in the future, because if you've read post 1 you probably know Nintendo filed a lawsuit against rom sites (read the pdf link on post 1 it's real trouble for the owner), so people are -understandably- covering their backs.

Also I don't think Nintendo owns the intellectual property of Capcom, Konami or Square(-Enix) games, you know.

In another statement the Admin of the site said they acted in urgency and added that they 'll try to bring back non-Nintendo-owned files in the near future (hoping they bring back homebrews and hacks).

Quote
(FR) Retrait des sets Nintendo
Face à l'actualité récente et des mesures entreprises par Nintendo contre certains sites d'émulation, il a été décidé de retirer tous les sets de ROMs de consoles Nintendo sur le site. Merci de votre compréhension.

Quote
(ENG) Removal of Nintendo Sets
Due to recent events and measures taken by Nintendo to counter a few emulation sites, we have decided to withdraw all Nintendo's console rom-sets from the site. Thank you for your understanding.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: MathOnNapkins on July 27, 2018, 01:42:21 pm
Note: It is against our rules to mention specific rom sites under normal circumstances. This thread hasn't been deleted because the subject matter is available on many other sites and would be considered current general knowledge about the scene.This does not make it okay to inquire about other sites or mention other sites that host roms and other game images. This includes sites that provide torrent files.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Psyklax on July 27, 2018, 02:53:59 pm
if someone wants to share about specifics I can't say I would protest about that either

I hope I didn't come off sounding rude, I don't mind people talking about the subject and discussing it. I just wanted to make the point that this has been going on forever and I can't see much about this particular instance being notable.

I also don't agree with the idea that Nintendo are arseholes for asking websites to take down ROMs of their games when they currently make money off them through the Virtual Console or whatever, and still own the copyright. They're perfectly within their rights to do so, and in fact they HAVE to, otherwise they'll be giving people carte blanche to do what they like with their properties.

Having said that, as I said, if you want to download ROMs, you've had two decades to do it, and you'll still be able to in the future - but yeah, let's not name specific sites, guys. Not smart.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 09, 2018, 02:46:13 am
ROMs have been cast out of paradise....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6rwGQDqf2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nckt-U7cu9Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLWudZpWuN0

And that site was one of my "go to" resources for ROMs, too.

If things keep sliding in the direction it's going in--when it comes to ROM hacking--this is going to suck harder than Lando Calrissian having sex with a vacuum cleaner.*

When I hack CD based games, I usually buy the CD and rip the ISO myself. I don't trust the ROM websites for ROM hacking projects because once upon a time I took on a PSX hacking project, only to find that every ROM site at the time was hosting an incorrectly ripped ISO of the game I needed that wouldn't even load properly. After scouring the Internets, I said, "fuck it, I'll just buy the damn thing", and from now on whenever I work on a project I just hunt down the disc on Amazon or eBay and rip the ISO myself using an optical drive that one can buy at the local electronics store.

But with cartridges, there comes in some extra hurdles.

Wanna hack games on the PSX or other disc based system? Probably won't cost an arm and a leg to buy a copy, and the ROM hacker can rip the ISO with a readily available optical drive on their PC.

Wanna hack a rare cartridge based game with a price tag that fetches hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars, and be a good boy or girl and not resort to downloading ROMs? Get ready empty out your savings account, or take out a second mortgage on your home if you wanna continue this hobby! Also, can't buy an NES/SNES/Genesis/etc. cartridge dumper at the usual electronics store, so gotta find one somewhere online and hope to God that you're not getting ripped off with some Shit Made in China™ that doesn't even work.

From my POV, this is also an issue about preservation and allowing future generations to experience "past gaming history".

When I was in grade school I remember playing a huge theater sized arcade game at the local Wonder Park. Many years later I wanted to play this game again in some way, shape, or form, but I couldn't for the life of me remember what the name of the game was. I was dicking around YouTube one night and found footage of a game called "Starblade" which was similar, but not exactly the same game I remember playing. Upon further dicking around on YouTube, I finally saw footage of the game I was looking for: Galaxian 3. To my knowledge, Galaxian 3 isn't even on any of the Namco Museum collections.

I really wanted to play this game, but found no working MAME ROMs, only ROM sets with files missing that prevented it from running. I kept scouring ROM sites until I found a PSX version of the game that was so rare, it's not even listed on GameFAQs. I had no idea that this version of the game even existed had it not been for ROM sites (I later found some mention of it on Wikipedia, but with no source citations to back it up).

Not only can I relive a portion of my childhood by playing this PSX ISO, but I (and other gamers who missed out on this obscure PSX game during the 90's) can also acknowledge the hard work of everyone who worked their asses off to make this game, allowing their work to "live on". Later on, I did see a copy of this on eBay, but their are only so many of these discs in circulation. If people are barred from downloading a copy of this disc that isn't even being printed anymore, it prevents the larger public from appreciating the hard work the developers put into making this game. And I doubt Namco and Sony are losing millions of dollars when people download an obscure game from decades ago that isn't even being printed or sold in retail stores anymore.

This like preserving books, films, newspaper articles, etc.

If things keep sliding in the direction it's going in, some of us ROM hackers should to keep copies of our ROMs and distribute them on the "low low" for future ROM hackers.

*Very few people will get this reference, since very few people actually saw that movie.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 09, 2018, 10:42:33 am
Wanna hack a rare cartridge based game with a price tag that fetches hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars, and be a good boy or girl and not resort to downloading ROMs? Get ready empty out your savings account, or take out a second mortgage on your home if you wanna continue this hobby! Also, can't buy an NES/SNES/Genesis/etc. cartridge dumper at the usual electronics store, so gotta find one somewhere online and hope to God that you're not getting ripped off with some Shit Made in China™ that doesn't even work.
Except then absolutely no one is going to be able to play your hack of that rare cartridge unless they download the ROM from somewhere, so what's the point?

Quote
I really wanted to play this game, but found no working MAME ROMs, only ROM sets with files missing that prevented it from running.
If the game is in MAME at all, then it's got to be in a ROM set somewhere out there.  (If there are ROM sets with files missing, then it's probably because the MAME driver was updated and it's just a matter of time before an updated set shows up somewhere.)

Quote
This like preserving books, films, newspaper articles, etc.
I think most ROM sets out there are rather exhaustively "preserved" at this point.  There's always torrents if nothing else.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 11, 2018, 06:47:37 pm
Nintendo should just sue the crap out of those scam Famiclone makers instead, like this shit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-WcD4FGy4) and countless others.

I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt to folks like (removed) that the ad revenue was to pay for the server bill. But with the scam Famiclone consoles, it should be obvious that the makers are up to a quick cash scheme by deceiving consumers who don't know any better. Little Johnny wanted an SNES classic or PSP for Christmas? Sorry, mommy got fooled into buying something that looked like an SNES Classic or PSP, but had a price tag so low that she thought it was a bargain. Now Christmas is ruined.

Yeah, these companies are in China and there is probably some convoluted legal crap with suing a company in China (given that country churns out other shit knock off products besides video games), but these Chinese scam companies must have US distributors that allow them to sell their shit here. Why won't Nintendo go after those distributors? They, too, are distributing their intellectual property without a license (for profit), just like LoveROMs.

The folks at (removed) just wanted to create a retro community and allow people to experience classic gaming, overall with good intentions. These Chinese Famiclone consoles exist for the malicious intent to fool consumers into buying crap so the scammers get easy money.

MOD EDIT: Math said no ROM site names.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on August 11, 2018, 07:19:49 pm
Unless the famiclone bundles Nintendo owned code with it or uses their trademarks what do you propose they do? One of the very same things that allows us to have emulators (that being a console is just a bundle of chips, from that era usually off the shelf ones as well, and copyrighting that can't really be done) means they don't have a leg to stand on really.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 11, 2018, 07:20:16 pm
Nintendo should just sue the crap out of those scam Famiclone makers instead, like this shit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-WcD4FGy4) and countless others.
To be clear, they can really only go after them for including copyrighted software.  The hardware patents have expired – but then, the hardware inside these things probably bears no resemblance to actual Famicom hardware.  But I think the "design patents" for the exterior have also expired, so there's nothing stopping someone from making something that looks exactly like a Famicom.  (Design patents are how Apple managed to go after Samsung for the whole "rounded corners" thing.)  They could definitely go after them for using trademarks, but then they just have to be really careful about saying "Nintendo" anywhere.

Quote
Yeah, these companies are in China and there is probably some convoluted legal crap with suing a company in China (given that country churns out other shit knock off products besides video games), but these Chinese scam companies must have US distributors that allow them to sell their shit here. Why won't Nintendo go after those distributors?
They've come down pretty hard on anyone trying to distribute 3DS flashcarts, it seems.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: julayla on August 11, 2018, 07:30:47 pm
If Nintendo is shutting down sites, especially ROM sites, does this mean that Nintendo will try to attack this site?! I'll be really scared about it if they do because a lot of people put their effort on translating and making good game hacks of games some people wouldn't even hear about.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Isao Kronos on August 11, 2018, 07:58:04 pm
I figured it'd be at least 2 pages before someone started fearmongering about OH NO WHAT IF THEY GO AFTER RHDN
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 11, 2018, 08:11:28 pm
I pray Nintendo doesn't attack this site... and I hope Nintendo doesn't attack the edge of the internet.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Isao Kronos on August 11, 2018, 10:12:23 pm
to be honest i think hosting issues like in the past will be the straw that breaks the camel back, not nintendo

stop worrying about nintendo, people
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 12, 2018, 12:36:09 am
to be honest i think hosting issues like in the past will be the straw that breaks the camel back, not nintendo

stop worrying about nintendo, people

They worry because this is Nintendo we're talking about. They're very protective of their IPs (can't really blame them) and one illegal download can potentially hurt them (Switch games are already being pirated, not sure about their old games). But if it's ROM-hosting you're talking about, then it will be harder for people to find specific games that are out of print, with no other way to legally obtain them.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on August 12, 2018, 07:37:37 am
But if it's ROM-hosting you're talking about, then it will be harder for people to find specific games that are out of print, with no other way to legally obtain them.
They could probably point at virtual console at this point.

Anyway as for RHDN then probably not. RHDN purposely does not host ROMs, hosts patches which are basically useless by themselves (without the technical skills of a ROM hacker an IPS file is likely random junk), would be hard to demonstrate even the notion of losses from, probably does not have anything for a currently active online game and said patches typically should not contain any directly copyrighted material of the original game owner (or another IP owner, give or take spoofs but... yeah).
While they could possibly try something with derived works (or the local equivalent thereof), possibly whatever they went after subtitle sites with (though again such files are not useful in an of themselves, where subs are effectively a timed script readable by a text editor or simple program), or some kind of DRM circumvention (I once saw a game genie master code discussed) it would be a proper court case they have to fight if RHDN did stand up (the EFF I imagine would be interested) and not just buckle immediately. The results of said court case might also come out not in their favour and most companies will try to avoid setting a precedent that comes back to bite them. This also says nothing of the PR backlash that would likely result*.
Copyright infringement, or indeed outright knowing distribution by a commercial site, which is what ROM sites go in for (give or take the commercial bit at times), is far easier to sell to a court and does not attract a backlash.

*I am not sure the extent of it would be. I am sure we all saw the backlash for the Nintendo vs let's play set, itself something of a storm in a teacup and petered out fairly quickly.
Flash carts, emulators and mod chips are already considered a bit niche (and possibly a bit naughty thanks to years of propaganda) and ROM hacking is a niche within that niche for the most part**. I imagine it then be the people that knew about it would be far more bitter about it but so few in number that it does not matter.

**someone out there may well have got a game, wondered if it could be translated and came directly here, maybe were used to doing it for say a C64 where such things were the order of the day, or dreamt up the abstract concept from what they knew of programming in general. Fairly safe to say most here were already versed in emulators, flash carts, mod chips, the general "piracy" aspect of games culture and whatever else.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 12, 2018, 03:30:24 pm
Well, there is precedent in the form of that ginormous kerfuffle over Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tvtoon on August 12, 2018, 06:42:16 pm
Just to repoint the issue with (removed), they never seemed the lucrative group. They have been on the internet longer than any other, I even got surprised when they began to serve "mainstream" stuff like GBA ROMs and Redump-like CD images, that was in a time when the RIAA and whatever random were tracking many sites. I thought that was going to be their demise, wrong for good. :)

I will never miss the sites that serve MAME ROMs, this kind of site lasts an eternity, but Jaguar CD images, came on! It is hard to find good stuff even in torrents! :D
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 13, 2018, 03:02:55 am
Unless the famiclone bundles Nintendo owned code with it or uses their trademarks what do you propose they do? One of the very same things that allows us to have emulators (that being a console is just a bundle of chips, from that era usually off the shelf ones as well, and copyrighting that can't really be done) means they don't have a leg to stand on really.

You realize that most of these scam consoles get bundled in with a bunch of pirated ROMs? Some of them change a few graphics to make it "look" like a different game, but essentially a graphics hack of the original. And some of the games are just the unaltered pirated ROM completely.

Jeez, you can watch hours upon hours about this crap on YouTube. Especially on Rerez and Ashens.

FYI: I'm not at all referring to the Analogue NT and stuff like that. I meant the stuff made to look like an SNES Classic, PSP, Wii, etc., to fool consumers who don't know any better, but they are just Famiclones bundled in with a bunch of pirated ROMs. I'd imagine soccer moms who don't know anything about video games would be tricked into buying something that they perceive to be an SNES Classic/PSP/Wii/etc. for their son or daughter, but was really Famiclone crap and ROMs inside.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on August 13, 2018, 01:13:32 pm
Famiclone tends to mean something specific though, mostly devices either through emulation or replication of hardware, with historically a fairly strong leaning towards the hardware replication thing, that allow playing of original carts.

Anyway now I am curious if the emulation on the devices you mention is better than Nintendo's sub par offerings for their stuff.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tc on August 13, 2018, 04:43:50 pm
Who knew that putting ads on a site that distributes ROMs would attract the stink-eye from the most litigious publisher in the past century?

I think that's key. They're not just distributing ROMs, they're financially supported in doing so through ads.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on August 13, 2018, 05:57:19 pm
I think that's key. They're not just distributing ROMs, they're financially supported in doing so through ads.

While that is doubtless an aggravating factor didn't they also go after the internet archive when they did their emulation bit?
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 13, 2018, 11:43:31 pm
I'd imagine soccer moms who don't know anything about video games would be tricked into buying something that they perceive to be an SNES Classic/PSP/Wii/etc. for their son or daughter, but was really Famiclone crap and ROMs inside.
Well, you can't exactly go strolling into Toys R Us Radio Shack GameStop or wherever it is people buy games these days and pick one up, can you?  I'd expect they'd be pretty out of reach of the typical "soccer mom".  Maybe not so much someone who hangs out in Chinatown or pawn shops or something.

Anyway now I am curious if the emulation on the devices you mention is better than Nintendo's sub par offerings for their stuff.
M. Agent linked to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-WcD4FGy4 earlier.  Looks pretty darn shabby.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 14, 2018, 06:40:37 am
Well, you can't exactly go strolling into Toys R Us Radio Shack GameStop or wherever it is people buy games these days and pick one up, can you?  I'd expect they'd be pretty out of reach of the typical "soccer mom".  Maybe not so much someone who hangs out in Chinatown or pawn shops or something.

Fry's Electronics
Walgreens
Walmart
CVS
Target
You name it.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 14, 2018, 11:48:18 pm
Fry's Electronics
Walgreens
Walmart
CVS
Target
You name it.
You're saying all of those stores carry things that resemble the NES mini or SNES mini, and that carry Nintendo ROMs?  Are there product listings on their online sites?

I know there are things like the AtGames Genesis (https://www.walmart.com/ip/SEGA-Genesis-Classic-Game-Console-80-Built-In-games-With-2-Wired-Controllers/54065320), but that is a licensed product in spite of its crapiness.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 15, 2018, 02:07:26 am
Where I live, yes. They are usually stored in the cheapo toys section with the action figures and cheap water guns.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tc on August 15, 2018, 05:16:06 pm
Where I live, yes. They are usually stored in the cheapo toys section with the action figures and cheap water guns.

Plug and play retro games aren't too difficult to find in stores.
However... how many of them actually contain Nintendo intellectual property?

If you want to talk about Gamestop being monopolistic, it's more the cutesy anime RPGs that only they carry in many US local markets.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Kallisto on August 16, 2018, 12:53:17 am
Well, there is precedent in the form of that ginormous kerfuffle over Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes.

Some people are not convinced it was really Nintendo that did that, some say it was a hoax.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Tsukiyomaru0 on August 16, 2018, 02:19:15 am
Plug and play retro games aren't too difficult to find in stores.
However... how many of them actually contain Nintendo intellectual property?

If you want to talk about Gamestop being monopolistic, it's more the cutesy anime RPGs that only they carry in many US local markets.
Far too many of them contains it. Also there are companies that intentionally mimic the console design and name to a degree only to fool grannies and moms into buying bootleg systems like Game Advance or the most famous Polystation.

On the other hand, in Brazil there's Tec Toy, who is legally able to produce and sell Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and Sega Mastery System (Mark III), and in one of their Mega Drive repros they actually addressed ROM usage! I won't quote it word by word, but it pretty much says "To use custom ROMs, insert the SD Card into your computer and move the files into the designated folder. However use only ROMs from reliable sources and know we won't take responsibility for damage that it may cause to your system."
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 16, 2018, 04:19:29 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHYEGnKEuzw

That pretty much checks off all of the ROM sites on my ROM and ISO resources list.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Chronosplit on August 16, 2018, 12:58:04 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHYEGnKEuzw

That pretty much checks off all of the ROM sites on my ROM and ISO resources list.
Wait a minute, this one is actually different. http://www.theisozone.com/statement.php

It appears that they're attempting to launch a sort of legal ROM site that benefits the copyright holders?  One thing people would say about GOG when it was a retro game site only is that it only covered computers, it may just be crazy enough to work.

I doubt heavily that they'll ever get Nintendo in or whoever, but their main thing wasn't anything related to Nintendo for me before torrents or whatever happened.  This could actually be interesting.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Kallisto on August 17, 2018, 05:17:48 am
Wait a minute, this one is actually different. http://www.theisozone.com/statement.php

It appears that they're attempting to launch a sort of legal ROM site that benefits the copyright holders?  One thing people would say about GOG when it was a retro game site only is that it only covered computers, it may just be crazy enough to work.

I doubt heavily that they'll ever get Nintendo in or whoever, but their main thing wasn't anything related to Nintendo for me before torrents or whatever happened.  This could actually be interesting.


I was freaking out about this all day, and just reading that makes me so happy. I'm glad something will finally be done after all these years, it just takes one step for a better retro gaming future.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: NERV Agent on August 17, 2018, 06:02:45 am
But I wonder, will these companies still offer rare import ISOs as well as betas and such on their new retro service? I doubt it.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tc on August 17, 2018, 06:14:17 am
Far too many of them contains it. Also there are companies that intentionally mimic the console design and name to a degree only to fool grannies and moms into buying bootleg systems like Game Advance or the most famous Polystation.

On the other hand, in Brazil there's Tec Toy, who is legally able to produce and sell Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and Sega Mastery System (Mark III), and in one of their Mega Drive repros they actually addressed ROM usage! I won't quote it word by word, but it pretty much says "To use custom ROMs, insert the SD Card into your computer and move the files into the designated folder. However use only ROMs from reliable sources and know we won't take responsibility for damage that it may cause to your system."

I basically meant to say I don't think pirated games in Nintendo franchises, are widely stocked by major American retailers (Walmart, Best Buy, the like).
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Spooniest on August 17, 2018, 05:25:32 pm
I think that if Nintendo wanted to go after RHDN and order us to shut down, there would be little we could do about it, but it wouldn't destroy the romhacking scene (ahem, backups and private messaging).

Basically, when you look at the bare facts of the idea, there is no real way to stop filesharing, in the end-all-be-all of it, short of declaring internet access illegal. I don't even know what kind of infrastructure would be necessary to enforce such an ultra-draconian law, and the infrastructure that is currently in place in the world can barely resolve traffic issues in major metropolitan areas.

I remember some spy-ish movie or something where a guy was talking about a computer virus called 'Ice-9' that would shut down all computer network activity in the world. That's a cheesy, comic-booky super villain plot, not a realistic expectation at this point.

We are networked at this point. Humans sure do love to resist change, though.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: SunGodPortal on August 24, 2018, 02:07:09 am
Well, at least they didn't take down my CD/DVD spindles or external hard drive. I don't know how they missed those. :P
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Chronosplit on August 25, 2018, 08:04:03 pm
This is... very interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Roms/comments/9a66jw/behind_the_blow_what_really_theisozone_retrozone/

I don't normally go to reddit, but it looks like TIZ had some inter-admin drama involved.  No lawsuit.

EDIT: also looking at the comments, the spotify-style idea is off the table and it's just more stupidity.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 26, 2018, 07:24:07 pm
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/nintendo_and_rom_website_owner_looking_to_avoid_lengthy_court_proceedings (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/nintendo_and_rom_website_owner_looking_to_avoid_lengthy_court_proceedings)

Here we go again. Those guys at NintendoLife are quite stupid.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on August 27, 2018, 04:26:03 am
Might as well have the source as it contains more info, though less comedy potential in the comments.
https://torrentfreak.com/loveroms-owner-hopes-to-settle-nintendos-copyright-lawsuit-180824/

That said another day, another ROM site. Same as it has been for decades. Though potentially interesting is that Nintendo also seems to be seeking a quick resolution when "nail them to the wall" has been the order of the day in the past where here they would appear to have a very strong case and nobody really caring to go to bat for them (they flagrantly ran a ROM site). Saw the filing on the earlier torrentfreak article. So much boilerplate legal text (reading it I would not be surprised if it much of it was a template which originated when tape copying was still a thing), though seemingly no direct call for download/user logs. Whether it happens by happy accident with them transferring other things I do not know.

Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Chronosplit on August 27, 2018, 07:45:56 pm
TBH, I'm surpised that NL even did a second artile on LoveROMs.  Almost always it's just "thing happened, site is dead" but usually that's the end anyway.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Isao Kronos on August 29, 2018, 11:28:45 pm
too lazy to make another topic about this because it's tangentially related but Pokemon Essentials for RMXP got taken down
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Jorpho on August 30, 2018, 01:10:45 am
EDIT: Looks like someone else started a thread.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26935.0
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Kallisto on August 30, 2018, 09:52:11 am
Someone made a interesting comment in NintendoLife:

Sounds like Nintendo wants this lawsuit to end before they get to the discovery phase, where the defendant's lawyer could potentially convince the judge to order Nintendo to turn over documents. Not sure what Nintendo is trying to hide, but I think this is likely why they want the case to end soon.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tc on August 30, 2018, 03:55:50 pm
Someone made a interesting comment in NintendoLife:

Sounds like Nintendo wants this lawsuit to end before they get to the discovery phase, where the defendant's lawyer could potentially convince the judge to order Nintendo to turn over documents. Not sure what Nintendo is trying to hide, but I think this is likely why they want the case to end soon.


An anonymous source might not mean much, still I think it's overdue for people to speak out against the industry's secrecy.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Kallisto on August 30, 2018, 10:05:04 pm
True, that has been bugging me lately. The secrecy surrounding the Gaming Industry in general should be cause for concern, for the longest time there has not been any transparency on what exactly they do. I can recall a few times when things leaked out about Konami, Nintendo, and a few other companies that they have done some rather shady stuff, and sometimes bad working conditions.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: danke on August 31, 2018, 01:11:17 am
Nintendo likely wants it to end before discovery phase and trial in general, because of the court rules in the defendant's favor, it would essentially legalize ROMs/emulation. It could backfire on Nintendo.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 31, 2018, 08:34:31 pm
This crap just appeared:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/illegal_game_sharing_site_mocks_nintendos_recent_legal_actions_with_trolling_video (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/illegal_game_sharing_site_mocks_nintendos_recent_legal_actions_with_trolling_video)
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FAST6191 on September 01, 2018, 05:35:40 pm
"and countless stories of emulation sites seeing a similar fate"
Interesting choice of term. I would ponder if they were doing something a bit shady choosing such things but that would probably be a bit too much credit. Not least of all because they fell for a publicity stunt in the same article (bravo ROM site I have never heard of before by the way).

That said I have never heard of the term "emulation sites" refer to such a thing before, and had you said it to me before clicking that like I would have though you meant stuff like https://www.emulator-zone.com/ and http://www.emutalk.net/ .
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: pianohombre on September 02, 2018, 01:05:49 am
Sure,
some people are probably just downloading a bunch of new videogames instead of buying them, but I think that majority of people just download stuff they owned as a kid like Mario, Zelda, or Super Metroid and want to re-play without having to rebuy the game at $99 each. I haven't spent more than $20 or $30 on a game in several years. Steam is a great resource for me.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: FCandChill on September 02, 2018, 07:11:22 pm
I remember some spy-ish movie or something where a guy was talking about a computer virus called 'Ice-9' that would shut down all computer network activity in the world. That's a cheesy, comic-booky super villain plot, not a realistic expectation at this point.

That's the TV show Person of Interest (http://personofinterest.wikia.com/wiki/ICE-9) by the way.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Psyklax on September 03, 2018, 02:42:37 pm
This crap just appeared:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/illegal_game_sharing_site_mocks_nintendos_recent_legal_actions_with_trolling_video (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/08/illegal_game_sharing_site_mocks_nintendos_recent_legal_actions_with_trolling_video)

they fell for a publicity stunt in the same article (bravo ROM site I have never heard of before by the way).

I agree, I'd never heard of that site before, but thanks Nintendo Life for letting me know about a place where I can download new games for nothing, good job. Admittedly they're PC games rather than Nintendo ones, but still.

I wasn't going to contribute to the thread again until I saw that, but since I'm here I'll throw in my two cents (more than what my opinion on the matter is worth, anyhow). I prefer to look at facts rather than emotions or opinions, and the fact is that Nintendo still makes money off of their old games via the Virtual Console, and they're apparently planning on launching a new subscription service where you can play any old games you want for a monthly fee - the Netflix of gaming, if you will. So if a site is offering for people to play their games through the browser, for free, and making money from banner ads to boot, it would be bad business sense for Nintendo to NOT take them down.

It's worth pointing out that the other ROM download sites that I won't mention were not approached by Nintendo, but got spooked by the actions being taken against certain ones. They probably could have gone on regardless. Still, anyone worried about game preservation should rest easy: you know there's a community out there in the shadows that are archiving all of this for the future of mankind. Chill out. 8)
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: tc on September 03, 2018, 06:24:38 pm
I can't blame being scared as a rom site owner. When you have roms from hundreds of companies, whichever one takes action is likely to try to inform others what they've uncovered.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Bregalad on September 04, 2018, 05:07:48 am
[...] people just download stuff they owned as a kid like Mario, Zelda, or Super Metroid and want to re-play without having to rebuy the game at $99 each.
Not to mention that if the option of downloading them is removed, the demand will sharply rise; and the prices with that. In an hypotetical world where dumped ROMs and Emulation never existed (so neither did the Virtual Console), old games would cost probably twice or thrice as much as they do today.
Title: Re: So, looks like some apparently important sites are shut down
Post by: Chronosplit on September 04, 2018, 04:46:01 pm
Not to mention that if the option of downloading them is removed, the demand will sharply rise; and the prices with that. In an hypotetical world where dumped ROMs and Emulation never existed (so neither did the Virtual Console), old games would cost probably twice or thrice as much as they do today.
This is in a way what happened in Pinball recreations outside of Visual Pinball.  With arcades becoming more rare, unless you knew a place or bought your own it was almost impossible to play a table.  Sure, PinMAME existed but there's more to Pinball than it's ROM.

In comes FarSight's (yes, the Action 52 guys) Pinball Arcade with licences and the like to recreate them virtually, and they would charge what turned out to be basically 50 bucks a year due to yearly seasons (otherwise you would lose out in either "pro" stuff or would be paying out your bottom for every table you want individually).  The physics and looks weren't exactly there all the time (especially physics), IIRC Pro Pinball still rules the roost in the IRL feel of pinball the closest, but people gathered around for playing the classics again in spite of it's flaws.

Just today however the Williams/Bally license switched to Zen Pinball.  They typically charge around two dollars per table, but for a usually more stable and polished product when compared.  Was the public loud enough to convince them to go to greener pastures, or was there a better deal on the horizon?  Who knows until stuff's unveiled?