Romhacking.net

General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: realworksuks on March 07, 2018, 04:01:16 pm

Title: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 07, 2018, 04:01:16 pm
Curious what opinions are on this?  The two that come to my mind are Ghosts and Goblins and Adventure Island.  I haven't beaten a lot of the games that are considered very hard like Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 and Silver Surfer etc.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 07, 2018, 07:50:13 pm
Clarify what you mean by 'hard.' Some NES games are basically impossible without treating them like learning Flight of the Bumblebee. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYAJopwEYv8)
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: filler on March 07, 2018, 09:01:37 pm
Well, you can sort games by difficulty on GameFAQs. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/rankings?platform=41&list_type=diff&dlc=1&min_votes=2
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: SleepyFist on March 08, 2018, 01:18:02 am
I was watching SomeCallmeJohnny playing Dragon Power(Dragon Ball: Shenlong no Nazo) the other day.

It was apparently so bullshit difficult that he couldn't even finish it, despite having the patience and skill to do a complete run of Ghost n' Goblins.

Off the top of my head there's also Ghostbusters which AVGN played, although the entire point of his act is to rip apart games guilty of fake difficulty and bad design, it might not be a bad idea to look for examples on his channel if you don't mind the toilet humor.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Naniyue on March 08, 2018, 03:16:50 am
Hmmmm..... There were sooo many . . . .

You might want to check out Game Center CX, as it features many "NES hard" games.

My personal list would include:
(This is all back in the day, mind you.)

Destination Earthstar - The flight sim part was easy; it was the horizontal shooting stages that got me.

Mike Tyson's Punchout - I'm just not good at pattern recognition.  I did manage to legitimately reach Tyson, but . . . DAMN!

Metroid - I had to randomly smash in codes till I got decent ones, and even then, beating Mother Brain AND climbing all that way back up got me so angry I punched my TV screen so hard I thought I broke it, my hand, or both!  It took me six months to even THINK of trying again!

Anything Mario - I HATE platformers!!!!! (Though I could make hardcore runs through Contra.  Go figure . . .)

Anything Castlevania - See Mario above.  I did like Symphony of the Night and that GBA one, though.



Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Mugi on March 08, 2018, 07:21:17 am
battletoads?
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 08, 2018, 08:44:36 am
Adventures Of Captain Comic, Cobra Triangle, Ghost N Goblins are some of the hardest games I've played for the NES. Cobra Triangle is one of my favorite, and I'd love to see a remake for current gen consoles.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Jorpho on March 08, 2018, 09:12:07 am
There are undoubtedly some very hard games which are hard because they are mostly unplayable and awful.  Master Chu and the Drunkard Hu, maybe.  Or Athena.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 08, 2018, 09:39:12 am
So then we are distinguishing between "Legitimate" and "Illegitimate" difficulty of NES games?

Cheetahmen is not a hard game, it is an unplayable game.
Battletoads is not so much a difficult game as an unfair one. Likewise Double Dragon 1-3.
Megaman is not that hard, once you get the feel for everything that you have to do to win.
Super Mario is basically the primer on action games from 1985-Present.
Tetris couldn't be easier to learn, but it is impossible to master, almost.

So...

Is a binary system of determining differences in diffuclty enough? Shouldn't there be more inventive criteria beyond qualitative judgement (good/bad, high/low, fair/unfair)?
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 08, 2018, 02:13:44 pm
So then we are distinguishing between "Legitimate" and "Illegitimate" difficulty of NES games?

Cheetahmen is not a hard game, it is an unplayable game.
Battletoads is not so much a difficult game as an unfair one. Likewise Double Dragon 1-3.
Megaman is not that hard, once you get the feel for everything that you have to do to win.
Super Mario is basically the primer on action games from 1985-Present.
Tetris couldn't be easier to learn, but it is impossible to master, almost.

So...

Is a binary system of determining differences in diffuclty enough? Shouldn't there be more inventive criteria beyond qualitative judgement (good/bad, high/low, fair/unfair)?

I guess I'm mostly interested in games that are fair.  I think Battletoads is fair, it just required a lot of memorization.  But once you have it memorized the controls are so good and few parts are unfair.  There is at least one part that I can think of in Battletoads that is pretty random and unfair, though.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: KingMike on March 08, 2018, 02:31:57 pm
I've heard the Rat Race level requires almost kaizo-level precision and the unicycle level is practically impossible, at least on the NA version (within that level of precision that reportedly makes it impossible to play with lag on newer TVs, as with Tyson in Punch-Out). Reportedly it was toned down in the PAL and Japanese versions.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 08, 2018, 03:06:17 pm
I've heard the Rat Race level requires almost kaizo-level precision and the unicycle level is practically impossible, at least on the NA version (within that level of precision that reportedly makes it impossible to play with lag on newer TVs, as with Tyson in Punch-Out). Reportedly it was toned down in the PAL and Japanese versions.

The rat race took me a long time to master, however there is more room for error than you may think.  When I played it recently I think I messed up a few times actually and still passed it.  Don't get me wrong, it definitely requires precision and is not easy.

I still use a tube TV for old games, but I can attest that Battletoads is not fair if you are playing on an HDTV.  I can't beat the clinger winger level on the Rare Replay Xbox game using my HDTV - even with game mode on due to the input lag.  However, when the game came out in 1991, Rare wasn't thinking about HDTV's of course. 
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 08, 2018, 03:16:16 pm
So excluding games that are unfairly difficult and in no particular order except when I thought of them...

Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link

Fair enough for its time. Nintendo had not made a side scrolling action game where you could swing a sword before, and it kind of shows. The penalty for failure is very high (start back at Hyrule Castle), and death is quite easy to come by. Enemies that you just encounter randomly can be mini bosses in themselves if you are sloppy with the controls, and learning how and when to use magic is quite a brain teaser.

Mega Man

The later games toned down the difficulty somewhat, but the first game in the series kind of has it in for you. Still, with some practice and quick reflexes, you can beat this game... it's just gonna be... well, let's say stressful.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Ok, so it is quite unfair to simply lose a Turtle when they run out of life, and enemies have really funky collision detection rules and take about twice as much damage to eliminate as they should. But once you practice it enough, this is a game that can at least be called sort of fair, and it isn't too long either. By the end they basically are just trying to intimidate you into quitting, but the journey there is a nail biter for sure. You really need to know how the subweapons work and pay attention to how you stock up on them, while keeping all 4 Turtles healthy more or less. Still, beatable.

Maniac Mansion

I can hear it now... "Spoony, you're a goony, Maniac Mansion is just a point click adventure. How is that hard?"

You could say this is simply a matter of memorizing procedure, and you would be correct...that's the whole game. But to be honest, there is a lot of crap to remember in this game, and a lot of clunky control issues that make things a little ...well, precise. You forget one little detail of what you're supposed to do, and basically the game becomes an exercise in frustration. Plus, if you've never played it before, there are a lot of things that you can do that will basically either kill the character you're playing as, and/or end the game prematurely, which you wouldn't necessarily see coming. Giving your own recording contract to the Green Tentacle is a really big mistake, for instance.

Final Fantasy III

Similar to the above entry, you can say that preparation basically solves the problems that occur in this game's 'challenge.' But having the patience and mental focus to do that preparation properly and then execute it is the challenge...not keeping your HP away from 0. FFIII was where the series took on the complexities that its battle system would become known for, as opposed to the first two games basically being experiments that played with what Dragon Quest was doing. FF2 is unfair; FF3, while pretty frustrating at the end of things, can't really be called quite so unfair as that.

Mighty Final Fight

Coming late in the NES's lifespan was a good thing for this game. RPG elements were beginning to crop up in action games, and an RPG-style beat em up was bound to happen (River City Ransom deserves its own thread, tbh). However, limits on the number of possible continues keep things fresh here, a method often used by arcade beat-em-up games that get home conversions. It will be some time before you become fast and judicious enough to defeat this game without losing all your continues.

In closing, don't forget that challenge of a game is relative. How good is the player, is a question? Some people have beaten Batman 1,000,000 times...I can't pass Stage 3 on a good day.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 08, 2018, 03:47:38 pm
Very nice list Spoony.  Yeah, I didn't think of Zelda 2, but I hear that gets extremely hard very early on in the game during the death mountain section.  I'm currently playing Zelda II, actually.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Psyklax on March 08, 2018, 05:12:31 pm
Clearly 'hard' is totally subjective, judging by responses in this thread. :D

People mention Zelda 2 and Metroid... I've completed Metroid several times, the hard part is mostly remembering where to go, plus not falling in the pits that you can't jump out of. Zelda 2 I completed several times on emulation, plus the FDS version, then I beat it plus the 'second quest' (ie just starting the game again after beating it, retaining power-ups). Sure, Death Mountain ain't easy, but still.

TMNT is only really difficult on the Technodrome, most of the rest of the game is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Generally, it's difficult to say what constitutes 'hard'. Personally I have a hard time beating Cobra Command on NES, but that doesn't give you continues or a level select, and beating it in one sitting is no mean feat.

I think I'm in line with Spooniest's thinking: games can be legitimately hard or just unfair. If Cobra Command had continues, for example, I think I'd have an easier time. Gradius taking all your power-ups away when you die is a mean trick. If anyone knows Rick Dangerous, it's like Super Meat Boy if you only had three lives. I dunno, different people find different things hard.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: KingMike on March 08, 2018, 08:58:05 pm
My main gripe with Zelda II is the very short range of the sword requires you to be practically touching the enemies. More like the Toothpick of Time. :P
I wouldn't be opposed to another side-scroller if they'd fix that, and maybe add some of the other Zelda weapons (where's the bombs, arrows, etc.?)
And that the second to last boss requires you to spend half (or more) of your magic to remove its invincibility is kind of cheap. That is where I stopped.

Final Fantasy III, I never beat it because that last dungeon is too long and unforgiving.
Oddly Final Fantasy II I think I had the LEAST problems with of the NES trilogy, at least from my memories of the one time I beat the Demiforce translation. Pretty grindy but by the time I got Aspirs late in the game, I recall that was rather OP and raising that to like level 3 was enough to ensure I'd never run out of MP again. I remember one dungeon forced you to grind magic, so that made my basic attack spells pretty OP and I could plow through the final dungeon.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 08, 2018, 10:40:53 pm
People mention Zelda 2 and Metroid... I've completed Metroid several times, the hard part is mostly remembering where to go, plus not falling in the pits that you can't jump out of. Zelda 2 I completed several times on emulation, plus the FDS version, then I beat it plus the 'second quest' (ie just starting the game again after beating it, retaining power-ups). Sure, Death Mountain ain't easy, but still.

Comes back to what I said: don't forget that challenge of a game is relative. How good is the player (you), is a question? Some people have beaten Batman 1,000,000 times...I can't pass Stage 3 on a good day. To be more clear about it, I feel like imagining how a first time player would react to the situation is worth considering in terms of answering the question "How hard is this game?"

...Just because you have a game memorized doesn't make it easy for a first-timer.

TMNT is only really difficult on the Technodrome, most of the rest of the game is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Generally, it's difficult to say what constitutes 'hard'.

Because of the intuition of the player in question, which will always be a variable. Even if I've never played TMNT on NES, perhaps I have played a game like it somewhere that taught me things that are also true for that game...see what I mean? There is no way to fix a constant for player knowledge except to begin at 0.

I think I'm in line with Spooniest's thinking

I saw that one, you should get out of line, go back to the ticket booth and get your money back, it's a real snooze. :D

March 08, 2018, 10:55:59 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
My main gripe with Zelda II is the very short range of the sword requires you to be practically touching the enemies. More like the Toothpick of Time. :P

You're saying the sword needs to be longer and I agree. Can that be done? Can we make Zelda II where you actually have a sword and not what looks like a rolled up newspaper? We're RHDN right?

I wouldn't be opposed to another side-scroller if they'd fix that, and maybe add some of the other Zelda weapons (where's the bombs, arrows, etc.?)

As long as there's no Water Temple.

And that the second to last boss requires you to spend half (or more) of your magic to remove its invincibility is kind of cheap. That is where I stopped.

F--- him, I hate Thunderbird. Shadow Link is likewise anticlimactic. I said it was a fairly hard game but some of the things about it are kind of stupid, too.

Final Fantasy III, I never beat it because that last dungeon is too long and unforgiving.

Don't worry, we still love you.

Oddly Final Fantasy II I think I had the LEAST problems with of the NES trilogy, at least from my memories of the one time I beat the Demiforce translation. Pretty grindy but by the time I got Aspirs late in the game, I recall that was rather OP and raising that to like level 3 was enough to ensure I'd never run out of MP again. I remember one dungeon forced you to grind magic, so that made my basic attack spells pretty OP and I could plow through the final dungeon.

FF2 is ridiculously tedious for a first time player. Empty rooms everywhere. Come on. Direct me towards the right path please? I feel like I'm having the devs play "peek a boo" with me. It's insultingly bad game design. That's why it's a hard game...not because of any fair or pleasant challenge. It's hard because it's ANNOYING.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Orochi Kusanagi on March 08, 2018, 11:23:19 pm
Holy Diver would probably be my pick for one of the hardest NES games.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Jorpho on March 08, 2018, 11:34:42 pm
As long as we're naming Rare games, how about Snake Rattle & Roll?  That's pretty obnoxious, isn't it?

I also forgot Solomon's Key, whose 100% completion sounds pretty stupid unless you have a walkthrough telling you exactly how to proceed.  Milon's Secret Castle might fall in that category too.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2018, 12:32:56 am
Mystery Quest is hard for a very unpleasant reason: its Player Character (Hao I believe) is too inept at what he does for the game to take on much of a vibe beyond "cartoon villain repeatedly unfairly punished," akin to watching Wile E. Coyote fall off a cliff repeatedly trying to eat the Road Runner. However, it is possible somehow to defeat it, it seems from having played through ...maybe 3/4 of it? Once? A really long time ago.

Now, on the flip side, a fair difficult game again...?

Hm... Mario 3 isn't exactly simple to defeat in Worlds 7 and 8, you know. But then, Mario isn't known for being too punishingly difficult as games go. Hard to say if Mario 3 counts.

Castlevania's too easy an answer and we've talked Dracula to death, I think... which is saying something cuz he's dead, right?

As balls to the wall hard as it was, I managed to beat Gyruss as a kid. Most of the difficulty comes from realizing which way your ship is facing and memorizing when to reverse the controls (fighting games on a 2-D plane make you do the same thing, but horizontally, not in a circle). But if you just get quick about blowing up the enemies, and collect the twinshot when it appears (and get lucky enough not to be F'd out of a life due to drifting focus), you can build up enough photon shots to blast directly through the end of the game, really. Lots of ways to get extra guys too, more than you'd think for a shooter. Good music (Tchaikovsky, dang).

Kid Icarus is hard in ways you wouldn't get unless you read up about it. The best ending is actually for 100%-ing the game, getting all powerups and items, etc., not like Metroid where only playtime is measured. If you get to Palutena and don't have much at all, she thinks you must be just some joker who got lucky. If you took the time to get everything, you've proven your worth, apparently. I'm really not sure but that's what I read...somewhere. :| Also, throw all the Reapers and Reapettes in a volcano, please. No other enemy changes the music just to irritate you. I hate those things.

Being honest, 2nd quest of Zelda 1 is no slouch at all. It can get weird before it's over, especially if you only happen to be familiar with the first quest.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Bregalad on March 09, 2018, 09:34:02 am
Quote
Battletoads is not so much a difficult game as an unfair one. Likewise Double Dragon 1-3.
Actually it's the opposite. Battletoads is a fair game, but very difficult. It gives a fair amount of challenge, but learning how to overcome it is possible.

Double Dragon 3 is definitely the example of an unfair game; it gives only one life/continue, period. It's predecessors however are ok.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2018, 10:20:46 am
Double Dragon 1 gives you 3 lives and no continues. The 3rd stage is meant simply to drain your resources with cheap tactics, and the 4th stage's opening is just more of that. Once you get past the wall traps, basically the game becomes about fighting, with a single platforming section between two fights.

It's not very fair, in my view. At least give me a way to start the Mission over once my lives run out. This was my first NES game and I really got angry with it, so perhaps my opinion is a bit slanted against it. :)

Double Dragon 2 isn't quite so bad in that it allows you to continue, but you have to put in a 'Konami Style' button code (which varies depending on which group of stages you want to restart) to use it. I still call that unfair, because it makes playing continuously a pain in the patootey. I think three additional instructions would have to be added to make the continue screen just pop up automatically... Come on they did that on purpose. It means they don't want players to know they can continue.

As for Battletoads, I don't agree, it could be a lot more fair with how easy it is to get creamed without any warning whatsoever. That game is heavy metal levels of unfairly hard.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: KingMike on March 09, 2018, 09:15:09 pm
Hm... Mario 3 isn't exactly simple to defeat in Worlds 7 and 8, you know. But then, Mario isn't known for being too punishingly difficult as games go. Hard to say if Mario 3 counts.
Mario is a bit hard to judge, because it's such a popular game that many people probably played it until the point that it felt easier than it is.

From what I read of Mystery Quest is that it required beating the game multiple times to see the "final" ending.
That might not have been a problem in its original form, in that it was an FDS game with a save function, I believe.
But on the NES I believe it was cut down to a cart port, and I think even a lower-memory (and probably cheaper) cart at that. Without saving.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: goldenband on March 09, 2018, 11:45:55 pm
I thought the general consensus these days was that Ikari Warriors, Mutant Virus, Starship Hector, Q*bert, Bump 'n' Jump, and The Last Starfighter were pretty much the top tier of NES difficulty. (Maybe Championship Pool and To the Earth too.)

I was watching SomeCallmeJohnny playing Dragon Power(Dragon Ball: Shenlong no Nazo) the other day.

It was apparently so bullshit difficult that he couldn't even finish it, despite having the patience and skill to do a complete run of Ghost n' Goblins.

Off the top of my head there's also Ghostbusters which AVGN played

The big problem with Dragon Power is that, since your health ticks down steadily, your survival often depends on item drops (from non-respawning enemies) that are driven by a RNG. If the game decides to screw you, there's nothing you can do about it. I beat it once, and my successful run owed more to getting favorable item drops than anything else.

The stairs in Ghostbusters would be insanely difficult if it weren't for the bug that makes you essentially invincible, which is very easy to trigger accidentally since it arises out of normal gameplay. With that, it's not especially hard to beat; without it, and without turbo...

Adventures Of Captain Comic, Cobra Triangle, Ghost N Goblins are some of the hardest games I've played for the NES. Cobra Triangle is one of my favorite, and I'd love to see a remake for current gen consoles.

Odd, I never thought of Captain Comic as top-tier hard, though of course it's tricky. I like that game a lot and have beaten it a couple times. Ghosts 'n Goblins is aggravatingly tough but has unlimited continues, so it's beatable with enough persistence. Cobra Triangle is quite difficult, IMHO -- several Rare games on the NES are (as Jorpho pointed out) -- and I've never beaten it.

I have no idea why people think Double Dragon III is so hard. The only part of that game I find challenging at all is the final boss; the first four levels are downright easy. And you are given a continue at Level 4, BTW.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Psyklax on March 10, 2018, 03:02:33 am
I have no idea why people think Double Dragon III is so hard

What's interesting is the difference between the Japanese and US versions. I played both this and Ninja Gaiden III on my Famiclone multicarts, and both were the Japanese versions. I reached Level 6 of NG3 with no great difficulty, and although DD3 was tricky at first, I managed to get past a few levels. This adds to the problem of judging what counts as difficult, when different regions get easier versions.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Naniyue on March 10, 2018, 04:52:06 am
Gyruss for the NES wasn't that bad for me, but then I had played the arcade one countless times, so it felt more like Gyruss+ than anything else.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: KingMike on March 10, 2018, 11:59:57 am
Ghosts 'n Goblins is aggravatingly tough but has unlimited continues, so it's beatable with enough persistence.
The Japanese version makes you enter a code to continue. Imagine the frustration when you mess that up and start the game over instead.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 10, 2018, 12:12:35 pm
With he NES games, a great number of them were simply about learning patterns and knowing what attacks are best effective. There weren't a whole lot of games that were just downright unbeatable.

Zelda IIMost enemies had a pattern and attacking them in the correct manner made them easy. A number of strong enemies like Ironknuckles and Lizardmen can be defeated with jump attacks to the top of their heads. Even bosses have patterns. Thunderbird - only his fireballs can hurt you. You can use Shield and Reflect and jump magic, stand in the center of the room, jump attack him til he's gone with minimum to no damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZq9mS0AfRM

Double Dragon 3 Punching is faster than kicking even though kicks are stronger. Using punches to start combos and kicks to finish them is more effective then just using kicks. Plus if all else fails, Cyclone Spin Kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnOYXtlYpEM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnOYXtlYpEM)

Super Mario Bros 3Stages 5-8 are hard, but if you take the time to do the extra man code in Sage 1 or 2, you should have plenty of lives, points, and items from the N card game to push through. Plus there are secret stages to get the P-Wing which can be saved for the Stage 8 Tank and Ship battles to get through them easily. Bowser's Castle is easy if you take the highest path instead of one of the lowest paths. Plus having a Tanooki suit makes Bowser's Castle even easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61MNeKHnhe0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61MNeKHnhe0)

Mike Tyson's Punch OutWho didn't have trouble with King Hippo 1st time you ever fought him! LOL! The 2 hardest boxers were Mr. Sandman and Super Macho Man. Quick dodging, late punch tactic, and counter punching w/ opposite hand, and everyone can be beat by TKO. KO was harder cause everyone from Great Tiger on required the match to go into the 3rd round except Piston Honda II. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuecs5xVI0

Super Mario Bros 2This was difficult because of trying to locate mushrooms enemies regenerate in every area. Bosses had a pattern as usual. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFPoNZoFBXM

Ghost N GoblinsThis was an outright difficult game. Enemies had no set pattern. Platforming was challenging in some areas, and some bosses attacks were difficult to dodge. The difficulty was toned down with Super Ghouls N Ghosts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpZZPglbYrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpZZPglbYrs)

These are some other difficult games that I was lucky enough to beat.... and I do mean lucky.

Legendary Wings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB1QgCwVT68 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB1QgCwVT68)

Cobra Triangle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEDwRZ85f0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEDwRZ85f0s)

Mega Man 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVg2KcC8JDo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVg2KcC8JDo)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATCHxTO-f0






Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: WerewolfX on March 10, 2018, 12:26:42 pm
English release of Bayou Billy/Mad City.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 25, 2018, 07:45:52 pm
I beat Ninja Gaiden today!  Definitely beatable.  Took me only a few days of effort to figure it out and beat it... definitely easier than Battletoads and some of the others listed in this topic.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 26, 2018, 07:47:11 am
I beat Ninja Gaiden today!  Definitely beatable.  Took me only a few days of effort to figure it out and beat it... definitely easier than Battletoads and some of the others listed in this topic.


I don't know about that. You might just be good. I mean...

We did say that unbeatable except by chance =/= Difficult, right?

You practiced. Bravo!

Edit - ...Ok well now I want to give it a shot myself. I'm getting rusty at Ninja Gaiden. I'm the sort who will even play 3 despite it's bland story and basically unfair take on damage culture.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: nesrocks on March 26, 2018, 08:11:01 am
Adventure Island is insanely hard if you don't use the continues cheat.
I've beat ghosts'n goblins and ghostbusters.
I'm seconding Holy Diver. Haven't beaten it.

I have to say though, once you throw in that you want the game to be fair it becomes a lot more subjective than it already is.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on March 27, 2018, 07:53:23 am
I have to say though, once you throw in that you want the game to be fair it becomes a lot more subjective than it already is.

Yeah, but it's too easy to say that an unwinnable game is harder than a winnable game. Where do you draw the line? It ends up being relative, no matter how you come to the issue.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: nesrocks on March 27, 2018, 01:45:43 pm
Unbeatable isn't hard, it's impossible. Fairness isn't about that, it's about it not being a game of chance, I guess.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on March 31, 2018, 03:58:27 pm
I'm working on going through Ghosts and Goblins for the first time.  I spent probably 2 hours on it last night and couldn't make it past the 2nd level.  I did make it to the bosses at the end of the level, though.  I'll be trying to do a live stream of it today if I can figure out how to do that.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Jorpho on March 31, 2018, 09:19:46 pm
I'm working on going through Ghosts and Goblins for the first time.  I spent probably 2 hours on it last night and couldn't make it past the 2nd level.  I did make it to the bosses at the end of the level, though.  I'll be trying to do a live stream of it today if I can figure out how to do that.

I'm sure it's all a solved problem at this point, with the precise techniques required for success being extensively documented.  But that doesn't make working it out from scratch unaided any less difficult, of course.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: realworksuks on April 06, 2018, 12:19:37 am
I finished Ghosts 'n Goblins and it just took me about 4 days of practice to figure it out.  I have to say that it definitely didn't take as long to learn as Battletoads did.  If you want to watch the winning run, it's here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGgBM-mKX0

I could probably complete it in half the time at this point, but this was the first time I beat it.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: erpster2 on April 19, 2018, 01:48:10 pm
SMB3 was relatively easy for me, even the harder worlds [5 thru 8].  :)

the first TMNT game was the one that I have not beaten long time ago when I was a small kid - still pretty hard game & haven't completed it.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: mithras123 on April 19, 2018, 01:51:00 pm
for me the hardest game was castlevania
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Isao Kronos on April 23, 2018, 10:12:05 pm
isn't one of the NES Golgo 13 games (aren't there 2?) a major pain
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: KingMike on April 24, 2018, 01:23:19 am
Well, there was a third Golgo game that was never officially released. Secret Ties, I think it was.
The English prototype ROM has been dumped and released for quite some time.
(I think it was announced for Japanese release as well but a beta of that version has not turned up, to my knowledge)
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: mithras123 on April 26, 2018, 08:32:32 pm
i still practice to beat the grim reaper still nothing.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: SleepyFist on April 28, 2018, 04:10:41 pm
i still practice to beat the grim reaper still nothing.
I was running the game a little while back, and in the hall right before the Reaper fight my game crashed from having too many sprites on screen.

After that I actually switched over to the Famicom(NOT FDS) version where that bug was actually fixed,
the difficulty spike just afterward makes Grim look petty in comparison.

Personal recommendation, keep the throwing cross as long as possible, it absolutely wrecks everything, it's how I just barely took down Grim.
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: mithras123 on May 01, 2018, 08:53:00 am
I killed him but I was killed with his scythe. :(. I will beat him one day
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: Spooniest on May 16, 2018, 10:39:51 pm
I killed him but I was killed with his scythe. :( . I will beat him one day

Why does everybody wanna give that guy a chance to beat them? I mean it's fun learning to beat Frankie and Igor in Stage 4 without stunlocking them with water, but screw Grimmy. He has it coming.

STUN LOCK THE ASSHOLE WITH HOLY WATER AND TRIPLE SHOT ALREADY AND GET ON TO STAGE 6, what are you a masochist?
Title: Re: The hardest NES game.
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 17, 2018, 01:07:20 pm
The 1st Castlevania and Ghost & Goblins were definitely hard. I struggled to beat them w/o cheating.

Cobra Triangle I could not beat and still can't beat without cheating. The stages with the whirlpools and ramps are ridiculous, and some of the bosses just hit too freaking hard. LOL