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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Psyklax on June 02, 2017, 04:55:57 am

Title: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 02, 2017, 04:55:57 am
I thought I'd start a new thread in the Personal Projects section, as I've started a little project: going through the earliest Famicom games in order and trying to get everything translated.

Before MMC chips gave Famicom/NES games access to lots of memory, there wasn't much space for anything, especially graphics. So most of the early games are either already in English, or have very little text at all. So, I just wanted to try to get as many games translated as possible. I'm going by the list of Famicom releases on Famicom World:
http://famicomworld.com/game-list/?fc=1&o=1&order=release&q= (http://famicomworld.com/game-list/?fc=1&o=1&order=release&q=)

Some early games have already been translated: Popeye no Eigo Asobi, 4 Nin Uchi Mahjong, Kekkyoku Nankyoku Daibouken, Ninja Jajamaru-kun, Penguin-kun Wars, and Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken (a particularly cool translation, as it's the first Famicom game with a text focus). This goes up to the end of 1985, and there are a few games left over. Mostly it's just title screen hacks, but there are one or two exceptions.

I've already done Ikki, a simple title hack. I've submitted it to the database but this is what it looks like anyway:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/ikki.png)

Now I'm working on two other games: Choujikuu Yousai - Macross (a title hack) and Gomoku Narabe Renju (a full translation, but there's not a lot of text there).

Macross has an interesting (to me) title because it uses a mixture of BG and OBJ tiles.

Here's the title:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-macross1.png)
and here it is without the BG tiles:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-macross2.png)

Obviously it uses the horizontal/vertical flipping abilities of OBJ tiles to save ROM space. I've been learning about sprites and I think I'll be able to do it. Just need to draw a nice picture, now.

As for Gomoku, it's a bit more involved, but the main thing I've found is how the game determines if it uses 8x16 or 8x8 sprites. In the main game screen it uses 8x16:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-gomoku1.png)
So when I turn that flag off it looks like this:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-gomoku2.png)
The question is whether it's worth switching to 8x8, given the amount of extra crap I'll then have to deal with (adding more sprites to compensate etc). There's room for more sprites, but the ROM will be the problem.

That's all I can show for now, I'll be interested to see any comments you may have! :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: rainponcho on June 02, 2017, 07:54:48 am
I like what you're doing so far! Even if it's just title screen translations. :)
(especially since you know what to do, and maybe need just small random help once in a while)

Old obscure games could use more love. Even if it's some shougi game. :haha:


For Gomoku, 8x16 would save you "oam" space. I'd just draw two lines of 8x8 text and shrink the digits down to 8x10 or comparable size; fonts won't stand out too much from each other. Add a few more 8x16 oam tiles to expand text and da da dum! You'll be competing for hacker of the month. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pennywise on June 02, 2017, 09:57:33 am
There's already a title screen hack for Macross, but it's in the hacks section.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 02, 2017, 10:06:42 am
Thanks for your interest. :)

I'm a little confused by your suggestions, however. I've never heard the term "oam" before, and I don't entirely follow your text ideas.

The problem with 8x16 sprites is I'll have to put text in entirely new graphic tiles (wasting ROM space) whereas with 8x8 I can just use the regular alphabet. 8x16 means it'll take the tile below it in ROM, and I can't use odd numbered tiles.

The problem with 8x8 sprites is I'll need more ROM space to detail all the new sprites I'll need to create. Without jumping to empty ROM space (and I doubt there's much of that), adding more sprites would be more trouble than it's worth.

I think I'll just have to leave it at 8x16. The extra tiles necessary are offset by the amount of unnecessary kanji in the CHR-ROM. Anything that's not a sprite can be done letter by letter.

Of course I may have simply misunderstood you and you already know all this. :) Nevertheless I'll keep working. I'm now wondering how to make a nice title screen (the original is quite space-saving, so I may have to be creative).

Re Macross: damn, I didn't think to check the hacks! That title looks awesome. Guess I can shelve Macross then, although that title hack really ought to be in translations, since it adds "Macross" in Latin letters below it.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: rainponcho on June 02, 2017, 10:39:39 am
Oh! That's crazy messier than I thought. Good thing I'm not doing translations really at all - they'd get retranslated+ anyway later. :angel:

You're more capable at this than I am, so good luck to you! ;)


{OAM ~~ (s)nes sprite memory storage on the ppu chip. It's where you upload the x,y,tile,attr data to get drawn.}
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 02, 2017, 12:08:50 pm
I thought I'd start a new thread in the Personal Projects section, as I've started a little project: going through the earliest Famicom games in order and trying to get everything translated.

You are (as the kids say these days) my new favorite person! I've been hoping someone would do something exactly like this. :) Among other things, it makes entire chronological windows of the Famicom library -- in this case, up to 1985 -- fully accessible to English-speakers, which in turn can totally change our perspective on the system's historical progression.

Re Macross: damn, I didn't think to check the hacks! That title looks awesome. Guess I can shelve Macross then, although that title hack really ought to be in translations, since it adds "Macross" in Latin letters below it.

It also doesn't translate the game's subtitle "Super Dimension Fortress", which sort of defeats the purpose since that's the part whose meaning is harder to grasp (a lot more people can sound out マクロス than parse 超時空要塞).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 04, 2017, 09:16:35 am
Just an update to say that progress on Gomoku is continuing. Well, I say progress: there's precious little actual text in the game, I just need to figure out the technical details of how to do it. The main sticking point I have right now is sprites. The title screen is trivial, and the in game messages to explain how someone won or lost are simple enough, but there are sprites in game on the right hand side which say the difficulty level, time limit, score, and some odd things which seem to connect to the Japanese lunar calendar or something (this is my only translation problem).

I don't really understand how, in the ROM, to change what sprites are used etc. For example, I can see in the ROM where a particular sprite is, but how it gets to RAM and thus the PPU, and how xy position is affected, is still a bit of a mystery. Once the technical details are understood, the actual translation will take no time at all.

Anyone with experience of hacking NES sprites want to point me in the right direction? I was thinking about debug breakpoints and all that, but haven't got very far with it yet.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: marioxb on June 04, 2017, 11:31:59 am
It also doesn't translate the game's subtitle "Super Dimension Fortress", which sort of defeats the purpose since that's the part whose meaning is harder to grasp (a lot more people can sound out マクロス than parse 超時空要塞).

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2617/

Maybe just put Super Dimension Force in regular text above Macross? Maybe it would be fun to make a Robotech version too?

Also, you gotta change that "To start push" to "Push Start".
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on June 04, 2017, 12:05:17 pm
I don't really understand how, in the ROM, to change what sprites are used etc. For example, I can see in the ROM where a particular sprite is, but how it gets to RAM and thus the PPU, and how xy position is affected, is still a bit of a mystery. Once the technical details are understood, the actual translation will take no time at all.
Do you know ASM?
It's usually pretty easy to find sprite data.
Most if not all NES games will store sprite data in $100 byte page of RAM. Open the debugger in FCEUX and set a write breakpoint for $4014 (which copies that $100 byte page to SPR-RAM), and it will probably instantly break, usually a STA to $4014, with the A value thus being the page (ie. 02 = RAM $200-2FF is the sprite table). Each sprite is 4 bytes, I believe they are Y, tile ID, tile attributes, X in order. IIRC didn't 8x16 mean it took the tile from the regular tileset (either the "left" or the "right" tileset) and then the second from the opposite tileset?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 04, 2017, 01:56:39 pm
I'm learning ASM as I do these projects. :D

I don't think I explained my position clearly enough. I know where the sprite data is stored (it is at $200 in this case) but I didn't understand how it got there. After spending a couple of hours going through the instructions, I've worked out how it does it (in this game, anyway). When you start a game, it saves which skill level you chose, then looks at that in a subroutine that stores the appropriate tile numbers in the sprite data. That's for the first kanji (which tells you your level). For the second kanji (that just says "level"), the 4-byte sprite data is just sitting amongst the regular instructions in the ROM, and the game eventually pastes that into the sprite data, too.

The problem I have is that the second kanji is used for all three levels, whereas it'd be nice to have the flexibility of using different tiles for different levels (so I can use 2x4 tiles instead of 2x2 plus another 2x2 which is always the same). The easy option is just to print "1L" "2L" and "3L" or whatever, but that's a bit lame. Writing "easy game", "hard game" for example, would look better. But I feel that changing the code to give me a different choice for all three levels would be more trouble than it's worth. I could just make a subroutine in the empty space at the end of the PRG-ROM and jump to it, but I'd have to figure out where to do it. Plus that routine for the second kanji is used in plenty of other situations. I'll keep exploring for a bit, but eventually I may just have to leave it and take the easy route.

IIRC didn't 8x16 mean it took the tile from the regular tileset (either the "left" or the "right" tileset) and then the second from the opposite tileset?

Not quite: it takes two bytes instead of one, and it knows which tileset to use by whether you used an odd or even number. So using 9C will take 9C and 9D from the left tileset, and 9D will take 9C and 9D from the right tileset.

(Christ, never thought I'd be explaining a bit of NES information to KingMike, I feel awkward :laugh: )
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: FlashPV on June 04, 2017, 03:39:04 pm
I've already done a title screen translation for Temple Labyrinth Dababa.
If there are some other games that just need to have their title screens translated feel free to ask me I'll be glad to help.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 04, 2017, 07:32:08 pm
I've already done a title screen translation for Temple Labyrinth Dababa.
If there are some other games that just need to have their title screens translated feel free to ask me I'll be glad to help.

I haven't got into FDS at all yet, but maybe I will some day. I think I'll be fine with hacking title screens - that's the easy part. Digging into the ASM is the hard part. :D

Speaking of ASM, I've solved my problem from before by simply writing LVL1 etc. I had to write a new ASM subroutine to replace the existing one in order to get things right in-game. Given that I knew nothing about ASM until two weeks ago, I'm quite proud of that. :D

Take a look at the title screen:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-gomoku3.png)
Obviously the title itself will come last once I can think of a nice way to do it: the existing logo is done with several simple shapes to save ROM space, but given I don't need a whole bunch of kanji I think I can just use all that space for a new logo.

If my progress continues at this pace it should be done pretty soon.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Spinner 8 on June 04, 2017, 09:35:07 pm
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2617/

Maybe just put Super Dimension Force in regular text above Macross? Maybe it would be fun to make a Robotech version too?

Also, you gotta change that "To start push" to "Push Start".

"Press Start" would probably be more correct.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 04, 2017, 11:03:00 pm
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2617/

Maybe just put Super Dimension Force in regular text above Macross?

That's the title screen hack we've been discussing, yeah. Any way the translated subtitle gets worked in would be OK with me, but something aesthetically pleasing would obviously be nice.

Take a look at the title screen:

That's coming along very nicely!
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 05, 2017, 04:28:08 am
"Press Start" would probably be more correct.

When I started looking at the Macross title, the first thing I did was to change that message. It's easy as hell, it's in ASCII format. Although the space is a @.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: marioxb on June 06, 2017, 08:57:41 am
Push, Press- what's the difference? Don't they mean basically the same thing?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 06, 2017, 09:22:18 am
Push, Press- what's the difference? Don't they mean basically the same thing?
Push and press is fine. "To start push" on the other hand... :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Spinner 8 on June 06, 2017, 06:22:15 pm
Push, Press- what's the difference? Don't they mean basically the same thing?

Well, "Press Start" is more common on English-language title screens. You only tend to see "Push Start" on Famicom games, though there are many exceptions, like Legend of Zelda.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 07, 2017, 09:40:42 am
I applaud this effort. A lot of the pre-1986 Famicom games are either simple arcade conversions or simple computer-style ports, but the operative word in either case is simple.

It would be great if you could translate the shoji games. Mahjong isn't exactly my thing, but there's also a ton of those.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 07, 2017, 05:52:33 pm
Okay, UPDATE! I'm almost finished with Gomoku, there are just two things left that are bothering me: the title itself (still thinking of how to make it work okay) and the opening moves.

For those who don't know (and I didn't until some research) there are 26 opening moves in Gomoku Narabe Renju (the board game) and over the years they've all acquired nicknames. Clearly they're important as there's a Wikipedia article on the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renju_opening_pattern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renju_opening_pattern)
Anyway, if you recall the in-game shot from my first post, it shows the opening move as two kanji in the top right. The game doesn't include all 26 openings (I guess the game chooses what the opening move is, and doesn't do some of them) but there is a routine in the game to put the right one. Sadly, it's not the routine that I'd prefer.

You'll notice all the move names have either 星 (star) or 月 (moon) as the 2nd kanji, so the game has organised the 1st kanji based on putting all the star ones first and the moon ones second, rather than all the indirect first and direct second - which is logical for a game, of course. But not for me. :D I just want to display like on the Wikipedia article: 1D, 6I, 12D etc. But my final challenge will be no doubt to pick through the ASM and figure out how precisely the routine works so I can rewrite it. Literally everything else is translated, and I think it'd be a shame to just leave these kanji here, even if most people don't care what the opening move is.

Anyway, that's what I'm up to now, but it'll be done when it's done. I might need to learn how tracers work to figure this out... :)

In the meantime, I went through EVERY Famicom release from the first game to the end of 1986, and wrote down which games had ANY Japanese, and whether they've already seen a translation of some sort. I only included localisation info when it was substantially different (meaning a translation wouldn't actually be so bad an idea). There may be localisations I've missed, so let me know if there are any other games that have a very different Japanese version.

Here's the list! :D
(I put it in code form just to keep it fixed width, sorry if it looks ugly)
Code: [Select]
Name (GoodNES) Translated?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 1983
Gomoku Narabe Renju No
Mahjong No
Popeye no Eigo Asobi Yes - KingMike
 1984
4 Nin Uchi Mahjong Yes - GAFF Translations
 1985
Choujikuu Yousai - Macross Partial - Makimura Manufacturing
Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden No
Ikki Yes - Psyklax
Kekkyoku Nankyoku Daibouken Yes - Quest Games
Ninja Jajamaru-kun Yes - Stardust Crusaders, Aishsha
Obake no Q Tarou - Wanwan Panic Localised - Chubby Cherub
Onyanko Town Yes - pacnsacdave
Penguin-kun Wars Yes - Penguin Translations
Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken Yes - DvD Translations
 1986
Aigiina no Yogen - From The Legend of Balubalouk No
Atlantis no Nazo Yes - pacnsacdave
Banana Yes - KingMike
B-Wings Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Daiva - Imperial of Nirsartia No
Doraemon Yes - Sky Yoshi
Dragon Ball - Shen Long no Nazo Yes - TransBRC & Localised - Dragon Power
Ganbare Goemon! - Karakuri Douchuu Yes - Spinner8
Ganso Saiyuuki - Super Monkey Daibouken No
Ge Ge Ge no Kitarou - Youkai Dai Makyou Yes - Aishsha
Hokuto no Ken Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Hottaaman no Chitei Tanken Yes - SixFeetUnder
Kanshakudama Nage Kantarou no Toukaidou Gojuusan Tsugi Yes - KingMike
King Kong 2 - Ikari no Megaton Punch Yes - DvD Translations
Mississippi Satsujin Jiken No
Musashi no Ken - Tadaima Shugyou Chuu Yes - GAFF Translations
Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko - Sekai Isshuu 80 Nichi Daibouken No
Sansuu 1 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 2 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 3 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 4 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 5 & 6 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu No
Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken No
Space Hunter No
Super Star Force Yes - GAFF Translations
Super Xevious - Gump no Nazo No
Takeshi no Chousenjou Yes - KingMike
Tatakae! Chou Robotto Seimeitai Transformers - Convoy no Nazo Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger No
Urusei Yatsura - Lum no Wedding Bell Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Valkyrie no Bouken - Toki no Kagi Densetsu Yes - DvD Translations
Wing of Madoola, The Yes - Psyklax

You may have noticed that I added Wing of Madoola at the bottom, because there's a little message on Level 8 that I decided to translate, and it's now in the database. :) Though someone's going to have to get to Level 8 to check that it worked! :D

I also did a title change for Super Xevious, but personally I think the font I used is a bit meh:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/superxevious.png)
Thoughts? It has to be pretty thin, you see.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 08, 2017, 12:23:35 am
I have a fan translation of Super Monkey Daibouken on my hard drive under the name "Super Monkey Adventure". I don't remember who did it, though I seem to recall (incorrectly?) that it was associated with some humorous site like the ROM Pit at Something Awful. Screenshot here:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/5dnqpw.png)

There's also a second (different?) translation by Pluvius here, plus a title screen hack:

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2515/

It's exciting to see how close 1983-1985 are to being fully translated. 1986 has some interesting games, like Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu and Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger.

I think the Super Xevious title screen change looks perfectly decent. AdamL's NES completion FAQ seems to indicates that's the only Japanese in the game, so...cool! ;D
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on June 08, 2017, 01:28:37 am
Daiva 6 - Imperial of Nirsartia was actually translated. The devs used a pretty interesting gimmick here - on pretty much every platform this game was made for you would play from a different perspective, meaning a different race/alien tribe. So, each of the games was basically a presentation of the story from a unique perspective. A very unusual concept indeed! Still, you'd have to own it on quite a few platforms in order to have a "full" experience.

Toki no Tabibito is probably the most text-heavy of the bunch. It plays kinda like a VN you could say, with various scenarios that unfold depending on your decisions. I think it is based on an anime, too. Mississippi Satsujin Jiken could have more text though, I'm not 100% sure about this. The C64 version of the latter is available in English, whereas TnT appears to be a Famicom exclusive. 

Seikima II, Aiigina no Yogen and Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko have handy longplays online, if you need to check the amount of text without playing them.
I believe someone is already working on that Sherlock Holmes game, but maybe I'm mistaking it for some other project.
And yeah, as goldenband mentioned Ganso Saiyuuki is done. :)

Nice idea, by the way! Good luck with your projects. :)

Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on June 08, 2017, 02:03:11 am
I had some progress on Seikima II (I'm guessing the name is some kind of joke or reference and is to be pronounced Seikimatsu, and there is no Seikima 1) and Space Hunter.
On Seikima I should probably try to make a cheat to get the instruments to test the good ending.

Also Gegege no Kitaro was officially localized as Ninja Kid, since you mentioned the other two Bandai localizations. Probably the least known, though. (if Chubby Cherub is only known for the crazy prices it sells for and of course Dragon Ball is much better known today than it was 30 years ago)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 08, 2017, 06:34:58 pm
There's also a second (different?) translation by Pluvius here, plus a title screen hack:

Damn, you're right, I missed it. I thought I'd caught every translation but I think I'll have to go through them again. Oh well, that's a good thing! :)

I think the Super Xevious title screen change looks perfectly decent. AdamL's NES completion FAQ seems to indicates that's the only Japanese in the game, so...cool! ;D

Well, in that case, I guess I'll upload it to the RHDN database. :)

Daiva 6 - Imperial of Nirsartia was actually translated.

Again, duly noted. I wasn't paying attention clearly. Another one ticked off the list! :D

Gegege no Kitaro was officially localized as Ninja Kid

You're right, I included its translation in my list but forgot it was localised. Added it now.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Fredde on June 09, 2017, 03:40:32 am
I had some progress on Seikima II (I'm guessing the name is some kind of joke or reference and is to be pronounced Seikimatsu, and there is no Seikima 1)

The band that the game is based on is actually called "Seikima-II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikima-II)".
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Spinner 8 on June 10, 2017, 02:51:15 pm
Excuse my horn-tooting but I have an online spreadsheet of every Famicom game and whether or not it was released in English, and I still keep it updated. You can even sort by release date. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tvtZ5O9Uwd51GVdnMgEan-V1xBQcYj1XzTJ5tbpUl-w/
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 11, 2017, 07:40:05 pm
Update time again! :)

I've annoyingly hit a small roadblock on the Gomoku translation. Everything is done except the opening move list and the title screen. I can't think of a way to redo the title screen the way it's been done here, and still have it looking acceptable. It's painted in three blocks using very few tiles, I can't exactly think of a good way of getting "Gomoku Narabe" in that space, but I'm open to suggestions. :) As for the opening moves, I detailed my problem in a previous post: I need to dig further into the ASM and figure out how the game gets the magic number that decides which opening move name is displayed, and somehow recode it so that it's split by direct and indirect, not star and moon. The other option is just to ignore it entirely and put the move list into the readme file (cribbed from Wikipedia). It's open knowledge so anyone who really wants to know can find out. Unless I can figure out how to do it my way, I might be stuck with that.

In the meantime I decided to get stuck into "Aigiina no Yogen - From The Legend of Balubalouk" (henceforth referred to as Aigiina). I see there's a 'translation' in the database but apparently almost nothing has been done. This surprises me, as after a short amount of investigation I've got the intro pretty much cracked and the NPC dialogue parts too. There's not a massive amount of text and I think it shouldn't be that hard to get it done relatively quickly. I've just been messing with the ASM, trying to increase the text window size (the window is bigger but the text doesn't like being longer if it has to scroll - more work needed). Maybe the original translator didn't have such an awesome emulator like FCEUX, which makes hacking NES games SO much easier.

Anyway, that's what I'm up to at the moment. Oh, and I've looked at Mahjong for completeness sake. Not sure how much work it will be, though I don't know a lot about mahjong itself to be honest. :D I might get to it after Aigiina.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 11, 2017, 08:49:56 pm
I can't exactly think of a good way of getting "Gomoku Narabe" in that space, but I'm open to suggestions. :)

Would a simple text subtitle using a standard font be easy to implement? It's fine to keep the kana (especially for a game steeped in Japanese-ness) as long as there's an English translation somewhere onscreen.

In the meantime I decided to get stuck into "Aigiina no Yogen - From The Legend of Balubalouk" (henceforth referred to as Aigiina).

Awesome! One nice thing about this one is that the ending's already in English. :) BTW Spinner 8's list notes a C64 version in English but I have no idea how similar it is to the Famicom version, and in any event I welcome the opportunity to play it on the NES with an English localization.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on June 11, 2017, 09:27:15 pm
There supposedly is a beta official localization of Aigina but at this point the cart might as well have fallen of the face of the earth, as I don't know if the owner planned to either dump it or sell it.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 12, 2017, 02:59:28 am
Would a simple text subtitle using a standard font be easy to implement? It's fine to keep the kana (especially for a game steeped in Japanese-ness) as long as there's an English translation somewhere onscreen.

Hmm, an intriguing idea. Not sure how I'd do it in practice. Might need to use sprites for it, I could position it before the main title. There are sprites on the title screen already which I've removed, so putting in some more could be feasible.

There supposedly is a beta official localization of Aigina but at this point the cart might as well have fallen of the face of the earth, as I don't know if the owner planned to either dump it or sell it.

All the more reason for me to carry on. :)

June 12, 2017, 07:49:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Yeah, double post, but I figured it's worth it for an update! :D

I delved into the ASM behind the title screen for Gomoku, and after figuring it out, I made a new one at last!
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/gomoku.png)

I'm pretty happy with the "Gomoku Narabe" blocky look (took me a while to do it all by hand) but the "Renju" part was, obviously, a lot quicker. I'm curious for your feedback on that part, cause I think it looks a bit poor, to be honest. :) I just put it as a placeholder, thinking I'd probably replace it soon enough. I just didn't want to use the same style as the left part.

Incidentally, the "Renju" part isn't on the original title screen, but the cart has it written on (and GoodNES uses Renju also). And since the Wikipedia article for the board game calls it Gomoku [Narabe], and the professional rule set is known as Renju, I decided not to translate the title into English.

So with this title change, all that's left is the opening moves, which are not essential to playing the game (expert players might care). So the game is as good as done at this point, though I won't be releasing the patch quite yet, just to see if I can figure out the ASM and can actually do the change I want.

Let me know your thoughts, especially on the Renju part. That bit took a couple of minutes and I think I ought to do something else. :D

ps. If anyone really wants to try out the translation thus far I'll be happy to make a preliminary patch - think of it as version 0.9. I wouldn't put it on the database yet, though.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 19, 2017, 11:54:06 am
I waited my 7 days to avoid this being another doublepost - let's hope I waited long enough. :D

Gomoku Narabe Renju is finished (actually finished a few days ago). You can catch the translation in the database:
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3073/ (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3073/)

I've done a bit of tinkering with Mahjong, and I don't think it'll be such a difficult task as there obviously isn't much text to mess with. It's obviously made by the same team as Gomoku, so there are similarities inside. It's not an urgent task but eventually I think I'll manage it.

Meanwhile I've made headway on Aigiina no Yogen (I think I'll change the title to Aighina's Prophecy). I've got the intro pretty much figured out (though with a bit of messing around I'm sure I can convert it to 8x8 from 8x16 so I can squeeze more text in there). I can already do the NPC dialogue, but I'm trying to go further: I'm attempting to expand the dialogue box. So far I've stretched the box, and got the text to extend to fit it (it's originally 16x3 tiles, and I want to add an extra 4 on each line). The only problem is when another bit of dialogue appears: the way it removes the original text is proving a little tricky to fix. I'm sure I'll get it done soon enough, then I'll be wanting to implement a DTE routine if I can fit it in the ROM somewhere (not actually sure if there's space for it). If I can manage both of these, we'll be ready to go, as I've got more or less all the dialogue translated (some weird lines in there, too).

I have to mention, regarding the dialogue, that there IS an English version... for the Commodore 64. I looked inside a disk image and found plenty of text which roughly matches the Japanese version, but I still wanted to do the translation my way regardless. Still, it was quite helpful in case I got stuck (kana-only translations are the worst! :D ).

So, just an update for everyone. After Aighina and Mahjong I can't decide what I'd like to go for next. Better take a look at my list...
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 19, 2017, 06:28:36 pm
Gomoku looks terrific! I overlooked your double post on June 12 so it was a nice surprise to see this update today. :) Very pleased to see that Aigiina is coming along nicely and Mahjong is in the queue. This will do so much to make the early Famicom library more accessible.

If KingMike is working on Seikima II and Space Hunter, and somebody else is working on Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken as cccmar mentioned, then I guess the remaining games from 1983-1986 (other than the partial Macross title screen hack) would be:

Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden
Mississippi Satsujin Jiken
Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko - Sekai Isshuu 80 Nichi Daibouken
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger

Is there even any Japanese text in Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko besides the title screen and the kanji for "day" that's in the upper right corner during gameplay? That might be a quick one. Toki no Tabibito sounds intriguing but might be labor-intensive.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on June 19, 2017, 07:37:51 pm
Wasn't Nagagatsu officially localized as Puss In Boots, or is that a different/different enough game?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 19, 2017, 08:03:27 pm
Is there even any Japanese text in Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko besides the title screen and the kanji for "day" that's in the upper right corner during gameplay? That might be a quick one. Toki no Tabibito sounds intriguing but might be labor-intensive.

I've just spent 10 minutes examining the CHR-ROM in Tile Molester and I can't see anything except the title and the 'day' kanji. I also found out how the title screen is done, so that'll be relatively easy to change. I might see to that myself. :)

Wasn't Nagagatsu officially localized as Puss In Boots, or is that a different/different enough game?

Looking at the two side-by-side, they are clearly completely different games. Same character, just different games.

EDIT: If anyone's curious what I'm up to with Aighina thus far, here's a little AVI to show you.
http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/ai.avi (http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/ai.avi)
The new dialogue isn't what the guy says at all, it's just nonsense I wrote to fill the new 20x3 window (instead of 16x3). It was way more of a headache to get this working than you might think! :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on June 20, 2017, 02:39:34 am
If KingMike is working on Seikima II and Space Hunter, and somebody else is working on Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken as cccmar mentioned, then I guess the remaining games from 1983-1986 (other than the partial Macross title screen hack) would be:

Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden
Mississippi Satsujin Jiken
Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko - Sekai Isshuu 80 Nichi Daibouken
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger

I'm pretty sure that Murder on Mississippi was released for C-64 first, in English of course, supposedly by Activision themselves. I still have that game sitting on my shelf, as a matter of fact. The FC version came out a bit later, as a port of the original C-64 game. The game has tons of text, as you might imagine, so it will likely take the most time to finish.
Hon Shougi/Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko don't have that much text from what I played, you're right. Also, as Psyklax mentioned, Puss'n'Boots is a completely different game - I think that it was a US-only release, in fact. NwHN is a Japan-only prequel or something like that. :)
There seems to be a complete script for Time Traveler on GameFAQs, dunno if it helps in any other way than being additional reference, but it's there, and yeah - the script seems quite long, but also fairly linear.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 24, 2017, 04:34:09 pm
Update time, everybody! :D

I've been hard at work on Aighina, and the NPC dialogue which represents the bulk of the translation work is DONE. I did a not insignificant amount of assembly hacking to get the window to display 20x3 instead of 16x3, as well as implementing a DTE routine, so it's as good as it's likely to get. Due to the game using hiragana only, the English script takes up significantly less room than the Japanese one.

Next up is the password screen, which is a little trickier because although the entry screen is easy enough, the past where you receive your password is currently bugged to the point of crashing. Clearly my ASM work has affected that area and I need to step through the code to see what I'm missing.

Thirdly, the intro. I'm just currently working out all the kanji (yes, it takes time for me :) ) but the big problem I have is that I want to hack it. Currently it displays 8x16 text by writing a row of 8x8 tiles, then another row, then it skips a row before the next one. Obviously I want to change row-row-skip into row-skip-row-skip so I can use 8x8 text and really make the most of the space I'm given. If I can figure that out, then the intro is as good as done, but currently I can't figure out how to do it.

Finally, the title screen. I figured I'd leave this for last since it really doesn't affect much, but I haven't even examined it yet. I imagine it won't be a big deal, though.

As you can see, other projects have gone to the side for this. I did have a look at the Japanese Puss In Boots game and I'm thinking of doing a title now that I've examined how the game displays it. Of course, anyone else who can do a nice title is welcome. :D I think I might try to recycle the US title screen somewhat.

That's about it, except for Mahjong, which I'll get back to after Aighina. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 29, 2017, 11:18:11 am
Congratulations on completing Aighina! It looks great. :) I continue to admire and appreciate all your hard work on this worthy project.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 29, 2017, 01:11:37 pm
Congratulations on completing Aighina! It looks great. :) I continue to admire and appreciate all your hard work on this worthy project.

Thanks! :D I would've posted it here already, but I was actually waiting for the 7-day double-post limit to expire. :D

So yes, I've finished Aighina's Prophecy, and I hope you all give it a try because I think I did a pretty good job on it. ::) And it's a fun game, too, of course.

Meanwhile I've been busy with other projects. I tried to change the title screen on the Japanese Puss In Boots game, replacing it with the US one, but alas, there are 19 tiles too many to fit in the ROM. :( Now I'm not sure what to do: make a new title, or work on the US one and try to squeeze it in. Tricky.

So I then moved on to Mahjong, which seemed to be going smoothly because there isn't much text really, but then I encountered the list of winning hands. At least a couple of dozen of them, and now I think I'll need to just replace the katakana set with a Romaji set (two letter per 8x8 tile) because I don't see any other way of fitting all those names in. I suppose I could just do the ones I really need. We'll see.

If I can get both these games done, the list looks a lot nicer. I had a play of the other untranslated games on my list.
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger seems like just a simple choose-your-own-adventure type deal, with the only options being "yes" and "no". So it's more of a translation issue than a hack issue: I don't think there will be much hacking to do, although DTE would probably help.
Mississippi Satsujin Jiken seems a bit annoying to play, for me anyway. Of course it was released on the C64, just like Aighina. Not exactly looking forward to this one. :D
Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden seems like it'd be relatively straightfoward, being another board game. I'll take a look after Mahjong and Puss In Boots.

I haven't had much of a look at Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu, Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken or Space Hunter, because someone mentioned in this thread that they were being worked on. Is that still the case? Any updates?

So, in summary, things are progressing nicely, but who knows how long it'll last (I do have a tendency to go through moods of doing different things in my spare time, and right now it's ROM hacking :D ).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on June 29, 2017, 01:38:36 pm
Toki no Tabibito is mostly a simple adventure game, but IIRC it has multiple endings, depending on which actions you take. I think the faq on GameFAQs mentions that as well, I haven't played this one for a long time.

Mississippi Satsujin Jiken has by far the most text out of all the games on the list I'd say. The quality of the writing in the C64 version is really good, so you may want to check that one out to get some ideas.

KingMike worked on Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu/Space Hunter, so you'd have to ask him I reckon. As to the Sherlock Holmes game I'm not sure, but I think it was Spinner's idea for a project. So yeah, it's up to you of course if you want to work on those, but if they're currently in a limbo, why not give it a shot. ;)

Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 29, 2017, 04:02:58 pm
Damn, you know you always miss something when you finish a translation... in Aighina's Prophecy, I left out an apostrophe when you buy a magic key from the merchant. :D Not only that, but although I replaced the Vic Tokai logo on the title screen, there's another at the ending which I didn't change. Maybe I should make v1.1? I hate making new versions, but I guess it's no big deal.

Mississippi Satsujin Jiken has by far the most text out of all the games on the list I'd say. The quality of the writing in the C64 version is really good, so you may want to check that one out to get some ideas.

I just had a look at a longplay of the C64 game on YouTube and the writing is SO nice that I wonder if it's even worth translating the game when you can play the C64 version, which seems far more complex. On the other hand, you could probably just lift the text from the C64 version without really worrying too much about translating it, provided there's enough room inside the ROM for all the text (the game uses a 1Mbit PRG-ROM, which is quite big for an early Famicom game).

[/quote]
KingMike worked on Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu/Space Hunter, so you'd have to ask him I reckon. As to the Sherlock Holmes game I'm not sure, but I think it was Spinner's idea for a project. So yeah, it's up to you of course if you want to work on those, but if they're currently in a limbo, why not give it a shot. ;)

KingMike popped up in this thread recently, maybe he can pop back in and say how he got on with those games...? :) Both of them look interesting to translate for me, but there's no point if he's on it already.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 29, 2017, 04:13:40 pm
I tried to change the title screen on the Japanese Puss In Boots game, replacing it with the US one, but alas, there are 19 tiles too many to fit in the ROM. :( Now I'm not sure what to do: make a new title, or work on the US one and try to squeeze it in. Tricky.
From what I'm seeing, I'd favor a totally new title screen, as the US one is no great shakes, but of course either option is certainly fine.

The layout of the Famicom title screen is a bit awkward, with the subtitle in the upper-right corner above the main title. I think a plaintext "Around the World in 80 days" would be OK if need be, and most of those letters are onscreen already if that helps the tile count (I don't know if the Famicom ROM has a full English alphabet tileset or not, since many don't).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on June 30, 2017, 05:23:36 am
(I don't know if the Famicom ROM has a full English alphabet tileset or not, since many don't).

It does, like most early Famicom games. Don't forget that the English alphabet only takes 26 tiles, whereas either kana set takes 46 each for a full set. This is one reason I started the project: most early Famicom games need no translation for this reason, and those that do have precious little text anyway. So I might just follow your suggestion and do a new title. I was going to do the subtitle with the existing tileset anyway, saving space for the main logo.

On another topic, I looked inside Time Stranger. It should come as no surprise that a game with so much text would use compression, and it does, namely dictionary compression. This is both good and bad: good that a translation could utilise the compression already built in, but bad that it's already compressed so adding more could be a challenge. I read a doc about using DTE and dictionary at the same time, wonder if that would work here...?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on June 30, 2017, 11:44:34 am
It does, like most early Famicom games. Don't forget that the English alphabet only takes 26 tiles, whereas either kana set takes 46 each for a full set.
I've seen a few games that included only the English/Latin letters they used, or that had tilesets that only included a limited subset of the English alphabet for that particular screen of the game.

IIRC, Chack'n Pop on the Sega SG-1000 was one of the latter -- which wasn't a big surprise since the tutorial screen (the only part of the game that needed to be translated) had a whole bunch of kana and just enough English characters to display "SCORE" and so forth, but of course it was easy enough for me to splice in the full English tileset from elsewhere in the ROM.

The compression in Time Stranger sounds like a fun challenge if you're in mountain-climbing mode, so to speak. :) Also, are you at all interested in working on Famicom Disk System games, now or down the road?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 07, 2017, 06:04:22 pm
Who wants an update? 8)

So there are two more games to tick off the list: Mahjong and Puss In Boots (can't be bothered to write the original title). Take a look!
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3112/
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3114/

Mahjong was a process of elimination, changing things one bit at a time. Puss didn't take long, but I was surprised that I had to write an ASM routine just to display "days" instead of one kanji, but hey, all good experience. ;)

Where to next, then? Well, apparently KingMike had some progress on a couple, and I'm not 100% sure about the Mississippi game given the C64 version is so verbose and a translation would likely never come close in quality. So that doesn't leave much from 1986 and earlier. An obvious one for me is the shougi game. It'd be logical for me to do a third board game, I suppose - hopefully shougi is easier to understand than mahjong. :laugh:

Other than that, I've got Time Stranger's script figured out I think, with its dictionary compression. That's certainly an option to go for. There really isn't much else on my list. I'm a bit shocked at how prolific I've been! :)

Also, are you at all interested in working on Famicom Disk System games, now or down the road?

To be honest, I've never really got into FDS games, not sure why. Maybe not having a GoodROMS set, maybe cause ones you find sometimes have saved games and corrupt data so it's more fiddly than plain NES. But never say never. After all, I'm getting up to the end of 1986, but by then there were a good few FDS games out, so it'd make sense to cover them too.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on July 08, 2017, 02:07:55 am
FDS is really darn annoying to hack, so it's mostly up to you! Pennywise is working on Dead Zone right now, and DvD is doing Cleopatra no Mahou, so you can cross those two off the list immediately. Frankly, I don't know that much about FDS games of that period, but there could be something cool there potentially.

For Mississipi you can always lift the script from the C64 version... IF you really want to, that is. ;) I believe that version came out a bit earlier than the Famicom version as well, hence the script quality.

Speaking of Time Stranger, I'd say it would be good to have it tested by a few people before you release it - mostly due to the fact that it's easy for some typos to slip by in a script of this volume. Even I could give it a shot once the translation is ready!
I can also recall that this game is based on an anime/to a lesser extent manga series, so maybe it would be good to watch the film for context (well, they were probably being developed at the same time)? Dunno, just tossing ideas around. :)

Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 08, 2017, 06:57:14 am

For Mississipi you can always lift the script from the C64 version... IF you really want to, that is. ;) I believe that version came out a bit earlier than the Famicom version as well, hence the script quality.

Speaking of Time Stranger, I'd say it would be good to have it tested by a few people before you release it - mostly due to the fact that it's easy for some typos to slip by in a script of this volume. Even I could give it a shot once the translation is ready!
I can also recall that this game is based on an anime/to a lesser extent manga series, so maybe it would be good to watch the film for context (well, they were probably being developed at the same time)? Dunno, just tossing ideas around. :)

Lifting the text is one thing. Putting it in the Japanese ROM is quite another. :) It will definitely not be an easy task.

Good tip on Time Stranger, I'll see if I can find an anime to watch. My next job, however, is Hon Shougi, because the amount of text is minuscule. I don't think it will take very long.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 08, 2017, 12:28:42 pm
In getting into FDS games, the one I had begun work on was Exciting Billiard, I think the one of the Konami sports games that wasn't localized. I had gotten as far as dumping the text.

I suppose one notable (well, if we're talking about "historic" Japanese games here) FDS game could be Aspic. Was it a port of a game that, along with Black Onyx (already fan-translated on SG-1000), could have been one of the first Japanese RPGs?
Though as I recall, Aspic (FDS at least) had already been using all of its screen space so fitting a translation in could be difficult.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on July 08, 2017, 08:39:18 pm
So there are two more games to tick off the list: Mahjong and Puss In Boots (can't be bothered to write the original title). Take a look!
Awesome, and great work! :)

Man, the early Famicom game list is looking so different than it was before you started this project. If/when you complete Hon Shougi that'll mean -- with the exception of that one subtitle in the Macross game -- the first three years of the Famicom library have been completely localized. That's quite a landmark.

To be honest, I've never really got into FDS games, not sure why. Maybe not having a GoodROMS set, maybe cause ones you find sometimes have saved games and corrupt data so it's more fiddly than plain NES.

I totally understand -- it is a lot "messier" than dealing with unchangeable ROMS, for sure. No-Intro has done FDS sets, so at least there have been some efforts at keeping things clean.

But never say never. After all, I'm getting up to the end of 1986, but by then there were a good few FDS games out, so it'd make sense to cover them too.

I asked partly for that very reason, i.e. because the FDS games will (at this rate) soon be the only untranslated Famicom-related titles left from 1986.

The other reason is -- full disclosure -- that I have an unfinished translation of a Famicom Disk System game and have been hoping to find someone to finish the job, as the work remaining (animated title screen replacement, name input fix, a bugfix or two, clean up any saved games) is beyond my skill level.

But believe me, I'd rather see you keep doing what you're doing! :)

In getting into FDS games, the one I had begun work on was Exciting Billiard, I think the one of the Konami sports games that wasn't localized. I had gotten as far as dumping the text.

Heh, and the game I was working on is Konamic Tennis -- the only NES/FDS tennis game that hasn't been localized or fan-translated -- so sounds like we're digging in the same field here. :) Trying to get all the 8-bit tennis games done, then maybe look into the SNES or (eek) PlayStation...

I suppose one notable (well, if we're talking about "historic" Japanese games here) FDS game could be Aspic. Was it a port of a game that, along with Black Onyx (already fan-translated on SG-1000), could have been one of the first Japanese RPGs?

Just as a side note, the Famicom port of Black Onyx (called Super Black Onyx, for whatever reason) is already 100% in English, right? Bruce T. did a nice job with the port & translation for ColecoVision, that then got backported to the SG-1000.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 13, 2017, 01:40:22 am
First off, Psyklax, I'd like to give you some praise for taking up a project like this.  I had thought about doing something similar myself but I'm too asocial to get something like this started.

At any rate, with the Aighina's Prophecy translation leading me to discover this thread, I was inspired (by that and the reminder that it was originally an American game) to look into Murder on the Mississippi.  I regret to inform everyone that it's not a very good port.  At all.  It looks like there was an abortive attempt to make a game fairly close to the original (despite a missing character), but a lot of that seems to have been fallen by the wayside.  On the bright side, it makes inserting a decent script a lot easier due to all of the wasted space.  I haven't played enough to confirm yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if so much empty space and dummied-out text exists that compression isn't even necessary to do so.  However, I've already inserted a form of KingMike's DTE/dictionary routine (with some pretty heavy modifications due to this game's weird text routine) and I got it working with little bug-fixing somehow.  I imagine that I'll be done with it in a week or two (mostly finalizing the script and confirming that it matches up as well as possible with the original game) if no weird obstacles come up.

Someone could probably do more extensive hacking to Mississippi Satsujin Jiken to make it more like Murder on the Mississippi, but that's above my pay grade.  A lot of the missing things aside from the lost character and the interactive notebook seem like they'd be within the realm of possibility to reintroduce, though.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 13, 2017, 08:09:28 am
I imagine that I'll be done with it in a week or two (mostly finalizing the script and confirming that it matches up as well as possible with the original game) if no weird obstacles come up.

First off, thanks for the compliment on the project. ;)

Hold on, hold on... this is intriguing. What exactly have you done so far? You've got the entire script out of the C64 version and you've inserted it into the Famicom version? It seems like you've managed it quite easily. :)

I think just translating the text is enough. Re-engineering the game to be like the C64 version seems like a colossal waste of effort given that you could just play the C64 version instead. In fact, that's why I wasn't so interested in tackling this game, so I'm delighted that you've done it yourself. :D

There is a risk, of course, that the script is a bit different in the Japanese version, so somebody might need to look at the English and Japanese side-by-side to check (if your Japanese is good enough, that could be you, of course :) ).

Keep us all updated on this, I look forward to your progress! :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 14, 2017, 12:23:13 am
Hold on, hold on... this is intriguing. What exactly have you done so far? You've got the entire script out of the C64 version and you've inserted it into the Famicom version? It seems like you've managed it quite easily. :)

I haven't inserted it yet.  However, after I've finalized the script, doing so would be a simple matter of running it through ScriptCrunch and Atlas then play-testing for bugs.

Quote
There is a risk, of course, that the script is a bit different in the Japanese version, so somebody might need to look at the English and Japanese side-by-side to check (if your Japanese is good enough, that could be you, of course :) ).

There are differences.  However, I've ignored those on the grounds that the game was originally in English and thus intended by the creators to be played with that script.  I'm playing the two versions side-by-side to make sure that the text in the hack follows as closely as possible to the original.

For the same reasons, I've also thought about looking at Law of the West, another early Japan-only port of a Western game.  That one will probably be harder due to the eight-column advantage that the C64 has over the Famicom, something that I could mostly ignore in Murder on the Mississippi due to the lack of menus and a nifty auto-pagination feature that allows me to use as many lines as necessary without needing new pointers.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 14, 2017, 04:31:54 pm
Definitely go for just planting the C64 script in there. If there are any significant differences, they might be interesting to note in the readme or something, but better to get the game looking as if it were originally released in the States, which would be the same original script I imagine.

Anywho, it's that time again... UPDATE TIME! 8)

Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden is now DONE! I've submitted it to the database but you can grab it from my site if you're desperate for some Japanese chess action. I would've done it even quicker but I had a few social engagements this week. :D It wasn't a particularly difficult hack. But hey, now I know how to play shogi! Much easier to understand than mahjong, I can tell you.

So what does this mean? It means that now, every single Famicom game from 1983 through 1985 is available in English! :thumbsup: Something to cheer about, I say. But what do we have left? Well, allow me to repost my updated list:

Code: [Select]
Name (GoodNES) Translated?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 1983
Gomoku Narabe Renju Yes - Psyklax
Mahjong Yes - Psyklax
Popeye no Eigo Asobi Yes - KingMike
 1984
4 Nin Uchi Mahjong Yes - GAFF Translations
 1985
Choujikuu Yousai - Macross Partial - Makimura Manufacturing
Hon Shougi - Naitou 9 Dan Shougi Hiden Yes - Psyklax
Ikki Yes - Psyklax
Kekkyoku Nankyoku Daibouken Yes - Quest Games
Ninja Jajamaru-kun Yes - Stardust Crusaders, Aishsha
Obake no Q Tarou - Wanwan Panic Yes - pacnsacdave & Localised - Chubby Cherub
Onyanko Town Yes - pacnsacdave
Penguin-kun Wars Yes - Penguin Translations
Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken Yes - DvD Translations
 1986
Aigiina no Yogen - From The Legend of Balubalouk Yes - Psyklax
Atlantis no Nazo Yes - pacnsacdave
Banana Yes - KingMike
B-Wings Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Daiva - Imperial of Nirsartia Yes - MrRichard999
Doraemon Yes - Sky Yoshi
Dragon Ball - Shen Long no Nazo Yes - TransBRC & Localised - Dragon Power
Ganbare Goemon! - Karakuri Douchuu Yes - Spinner8
Ganso Saiyuuki - Super Monkey Daibouken Yes - pacnsacdave
Ge Ge Ge no Kitarou - Youkai Dai Makyou Yes - Aishsha & Localised - Ninja Kid
Hokuto no Ken Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Hottaaman no Chitei Tanken Yes - SixFeetUnder
Kanshakudama Nage Kantarou no Toukaidou Gojuusan Tsugi Yes - KingMike
King Kong 2 - Ikari no Megaton Punch Yes - DvD Translations
Mississippi Satsujin Jiken No
Musashi no Ken - Tadaima Shugyou Chuu Yes - GAFF Translations
Nagagutsu wo Haita Neko - Sekai Isshuu 80 Nichi Daibouken Yes - Psyklax
Sansuu 1 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 2 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 3 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 4 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Sansuu 5 & 6 Nen - Keisan Game Yes - Pikachumanson
Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu No
Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken No
Space Hunter No
Super Star Force Yes - GAFF Translations
Super Xevious - Gump no Nazo Yes - Psyklax
Takeshi no Chousenjou Yes - KingMike
Tatakae! Chou Robotto Seimeitai Transformers - Convoy no Nazo Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger No
Urusei Yatsura - Lum no Wedding Bell Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Valkyrie no Bouken - Toki no Kagi Densetsu Yes - DvD Translations
Wing of Madoola, The Yes - Psyklax

As you can see, there's not much left of 1986 to finish off. Mississippi Satsujin Jiken, as we've heard, is coming along very nicely (keep it up, Pluvius! ;) ) and the script of Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken is near completion according to Filler, but I don't know who is actually doing the hacking part of that job. Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu and Space Hunter were being tackled by KingMike, and I think I'll give him a PM because both projects look interesting to me, so I'd be happy to take them off his hands if he's busy. :D

So that just leaves Toki no Tabibito - Time Stranger. I've actually got a table file compiled, which includes all the dictionary entries (the game uses dictionary compression), so a text dump is next on my list. There's obviously a lot of text here, way more than any other game I've tackled on this project, so this will take a bit more time. Also, I hate translating kana-only texts... :( But as they say, しかたがない. :P

So crazy to think where we were only six weeks ago today. I've translated eight games in that time (though to be fair, most of them were very easy jobs). Now it seems that my original goal is actually within reach, in record time. Not sure I'm ready to tackle 1987, though... but I'll certainly be checking to see how much work there is to do there. :D
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Spinner 8 on July 14, 2017, 05:27:57 pm
As you can see, there's not much left of 1986 to finish off. Mississippi Satsujin Jiken, as we've heard, is coming along very nicely (keep it up, Pluvius! ;) ) and the script of Sherlock Holmes - Hakushaku Reijou Yuukai Jiken is near completion according to Filler, but I don't know who is actually doing the hacking part of that job. Seikima II - Akuma no Gyakushuu and Space Hunter were being tackled by KingMike, and I think I'll give him a PM because both projects look interesting to me, so I'd be happy to take them off his hands if he's busy. :D

I'm hacking Sherlock Holmes fwiw.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 14, 2017, 06:28:23 pm
I'm hacking Sherlock Holmes fwiw.

Awesome! ;) I look forward to that. I should have a look at a longplay to set what it's all about.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 22, 2017, 06:07:18 am
Update time again! :)

First off I want to mention to anyone that doesn't know, that Murder on the Mississippi has been completed! :)
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3133/
I'm grateful to Pluvius for namechecking me in the readme for inspiring him to do it, and I hope my efforts over the last two months will inspire even more people to get translating the earliest Famicom games. Good job! :)

Back to my work. Given how much text there is in Time Stranger, I obviously haven't got very far - previous games in this project have been much easier to make progress on, given the lack of text. But I watched the anime movie that the game is based on, and it's actually quite an interesting movie. It centres around a teenager from the future who is disillusioned with how things are, so he goes back in time, while a member of the Time Police heads after him to stop him changing history. This game, strangely, takes place after the end of the movie, and has you controlling the cop (the movie's antagonist). So, if you haven't seen the film, the premise of the game is a heck of a spoiler. :D

As for the game itself, I've done some work outside the main script (which I've dumped and am translating currently, and will obviously will take a long time). The profile of the main character has been translated, and the screen showing his mode of transport has been corrected for spelling errors:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-timestranger1.png)(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-timestranger2.png)

I've also done all of the time/places you visit, and the introduction text:
(SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM! :D )
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-timestranger3.png)

Other than that, there's nothing to show. I just need to knuckle down and translate, and then I guess it's done. Only thing I'm not sure about is the title screen, because it includes the title in both Japanese and English, just like the movie does. So, I don't really think there's any point in touching it.

Since the translating usually takes place on my mobile phone while I'm out and about (I know :D ) I figured I might want to get into hacking another game to keep busy at home, but since all the remaining 1986 games are being handled, I've started looking at 1987. There's a surprising amount of games already translated, but obviously plenty still to be done. I've been going through every game - in some cases even examining the graphics to check if I can see any Japanese text - to see what needs doing, but I'm still compiling my list. Once I finish it, I might pick the easiest one and get to work. :) But I'll post it here first, just in case anyone knows of ones I've missed (or if they're already being worked on).

So, that's all for now. Keep me updated with all your work, it's very much appreciated! :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on July 22, 2017, 06:29:45 am
It would seem that there are about 30 untranslated games in 1987, according to Spinner's list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tvtZ5O9Uwd51GVdnMgEan-V1xBQcYj1XzTJ5tbpUl-w/edit#gid=1935945707). It's a good list btw, you can even sort it by date/genre. :) Quite a few of them are RPGs, but I'm pretty sure some are being tackled. For example, Filler translated ZOIDS already (maybe someone is working on insertion right now) and I'm pretty sure someone was tackling Indora no Hikari as well. So, that's two RPGs less for you to worry about. It seems that there are a few adventure games and RPGs in that year though, so it will obviously take quite some time to deal with it.

As to Time Stranger, it's interesting that the game is basically a sequel to the movie. Perhaps that's how it was marketed as well. Neat stuff. :D I do remember reading somewhere that the game had a couple of endings. They're probably dependent upon your choices... well, either way, good luck!
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 22, 2017, 09:53:06 am
I know Spinner has a nice list... but I just like to do things my way. :)

Funny thing about Time Stranger, I did some googling and it seems to have a reputation in Japan as a bit of a 'kusoge' or 'crap game'. :D But it must have a bit of a cult following because a guy made a wonderful website with a detailed guide, which will be very useful as I translate the game.

Anyway, after posting earlier today I decided to take a look at Space Hunter. Very quickly I realised there was so little text, and a capital English alphabet, that I could finish it in an afternoon. :) Alas, it's never that simple. The text is written in such a terse format, and there only 32KB of PRG-ROM, that actually writing something readable will be a challenge. At first I thought "ah, the mapper supports bank switching, I'll just add another bank for the text", but it only supports many CHR-ROM banks, not PRG-ROM. It's also written in an awkward way, mixing and matching phrases in a way that doesn't make sense for English grammar. So close...

There's no wasted space inside, so DTE or just adjusting pointers isn't going to work. They really crammed a lot into 32KB. What to do? I'm open to ideas, but short of changing the mapper, which I know would be a pain, I can't think of any.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 22, 2017, 02:15:09 pm
Someone already did Famicom Board Game: Railroad King (1987) though I've had mine sitting around forever. That game is one with CHR-ROM switching. When I get back to it, I'd have to do some disassembly probably to find room to do some bank-swapping. You would have to do a mapper hack probably and find if there's something you can swap out (like maybe the title screen?) during gameplay.
If it's an CNROM game, then GNROM (such as used in SMB/DH) would seem the logical extension of that mapper, but since that mapper appears to write PRG and CHR registers at the same time, maybe not the best?
I remember DvD said he had a hard time with Portopia fitting the text back in and had to do some ROM expansion to fit it.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 22, 2017, 03:58:28 pm
Someone already did Famicom Board Game: Railroad King (1987) though I've had mine sitting around forever. That game is one with CHR-ROM switching. When I get back to it, I'd have to do some disassembly probably to find room to do some bank-swapping. You would have to do a mapper hack probably and find if there's something you can swap out (like maybe the title screen?) during gameplay.
If it's an CNROM game, then GNROM (such as used in SMB/DH) would seem the logical extension of that mapper, but since that mapper appears to write PRG and CHR registers at the same time, maybe not the best?
I remember DvD said he had a hard time with Portopia fitting the text back in and had to do some ROM expansion to fit it.

I'm aware that you've been working on Space Hunter yourself, but it's not CHR switching that's the problem since this game already does that. It's the PRG that needs switching, but CNROM can't do it. As you said, maybe there's an alternative, though mapper hacks are a new area for me.

I'm not surprised DvD had trouble with Portopia given it didn't even use an MMC, God only knows how they crammed all that in there. He did an awesome job though, I played it all the way through and it was excellent. Space Hunter really doesn't have much text though, so I don't know if it's worth the effort.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: maseter on July 23, 2017, 03:03:23 am
Does 1988 count as early? :)

There is this Iron Tank game
which was censored in the US:
https://tcrf.net/Iron_Tank (https://tcrf.net/Iron_Tank)
(https://tcrf.net/images/3/31/IronTank-Swastikas2-US.png)

But not the Japanese release called "Great Tank":
(https://tcrf.net/images/c/c1/IronTank-Swastikas2-JP.png)

My question is, what would be easier, taking text from the US release and inserting it into the Japanese game, or taking graphics from the Japanese release and inserting them into the US? Which way? If somebody could please take a look. Sorry if off topic, but i don't know where else to bring this up.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 23, 2017, 04:19:08 am
My question is, what would be easier, taking text from the US release and inserting it into the Japanese game, or taking graphics from the Japanese release and inserting them into the US? Which way? If somebody could please take a look. Sorry if off topic, but i don't know where else to bring this up.

You're right, that's totally off topic. :D There is a thread called Hack Ideas where this question belongs:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=3282.0
But because I'm nice, I'll answer anyway. ;)

Putting the Japanese graphics into the US version would definitely be much easier. Ten minutes pasting back in the graphics, then adjusting the palettes, which could take longer, but is still quite trivial. Of course it's not as "pure" as properly translating the Japanese version perhaps, but if the graphics matter to someone then it'd make a nice hack i suppose.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 25, 2017, 05:02:23 am
I was a little bored, and seeing as how Law of the West isn't really worthwhile for me to hack at the present (see below), I figured I'd give my subjective opinions on how hard the games in 1987 would be to hack based on a cursory look at them.

The Black Bass (J): Probably wouldn't be too hard.  Doesn't look like much text, and there's a good amount of free space in the fixed bank for routines.  Helps that this is the kind of game where a terse translation would work.  The pointer table is unusual (six bytes per entry, first byte is text length, second byte is number of lines, next two bytes are PPU address, last two bytes are the pointer) but I don't think it'd be very hard to make a dumper and inserter for it.

Law of the West: This one uses a nasty pointer table format that looks like this:

Code: [Select]
01 01 00 02 02 0A 0A 00 03 03 0B 0B 00 04 04 0C 0C 00 05 05 0D 0D
Where the zeroes are padding bytes, the low numbers represent pointers for the question asked of your character followed by four possible responses, and the high numbers represent pointers for the next set of pointers based on which of the responses you chose.  Not a whole lot of free space to make use of either.  Since this game is already available on other systems, I don't really have the inclination to deal with this.

City Adventure Touch: Mystery of Triangle: Looks simple.  Bog-standard pointer tables and plenty of free space in the fixed bank.  The small text window is a big pain in the butt, though.  The biggest challenge in this hack would probably either be making the window bigger (there's a lot of space for that) or dealing with it.

Sanma no Meitantei: Normal pointer table, but since this is a Portopia-style adventure game there's a good amount of text.  Not much free space in the fixed bank.  Lots of free space elsewhere, but hard to tell how much good it would do.  Would probably require playing with bankswitching and/or expansion to do this one.

Morita Shogi: Didn't look closely at this one.  Most of the text is in small icons so the difficulty in the hack would probably lie mostly in pixelart skills.

Takahashi Meijin no Bug-tte Honey: I beat this game a long time ago because the amount of Japanese text in it was miniscule.  Based on that, I'm guessing this would be the easiest hack on the list, maybe just a title-screen hack.

Hokkaido Rensa Satsujin: Okhotsk ni Kiyu: Judging by the text routine and a look at the ROM, this Portopia-style game crams all of its text into a 64K area of four banks with a massive pointer table at the beginning.  No free space in either those banks or the fixed banks.  Surely impossible to do without expansion, which would probably necessitate a nasty hack of the text routine and pointer tables to allow for more than four text banks.

Tokoro-san no Mamoru mo Semeru mo: This uses a truly bizarre text routine where it first reads the necessary information from a certain CHR bank using the PPU_DATA register.  This information is encrypted by being jumbled up in a certain way, so after this it has to run it through a decryption routine.  The first routine is at $8112 and the second at $8084.  Why the hell they went through the trouble of encryption for such an obvious kusoge, I couldn't say.  On the bright side, once you figure out the encryption the hack would be very simple, since the text routine prints to the entire screen.  Assuming that all of the Japanese text in the game is like this, it looks like only four screens at most would need to be translated.

Jongbou: Like the shogi game, I didn't look closely at this one.  But there's a ton of free space in most of the banks and a decent amount in the fixed bank.  The game already has an 8x8 text routine to replace the 16x16 with as well.  Probably would be pretty easy overall.

Family Trainer 5: Meiro Daisakusen: This uses a standard text routine and pointer tables and there's a lot of space in most of the banks, though little in the fixed bank and none in the bank before it.  This may not be a problem, though, since the intro text at least is in the first bank.  Even if there is text in the banks I mentioned, two of the other banks are completely empty, so moving the text to one of those would probably be relatively easy.  The biggest obvious problem is the small text window during gameplay, but there you'll still have double the lines to work with since the Japanese text has to waste half the lines on dakuten.

Family Mahjong: Again I didn't look too closely.  There's a decent amount of free space in all of the banks except the fixed one, but you could probably squeeze a respectable DTE in the latter if necessary.  This game also has an 8x8 routine to replace the 16x16 routine.  As usual with these traditional mahjong games, the biggest difficulty would probably be screen space during the gameplay segments.

Tenka no Goikenban: Mito Koumon: Aside from the obvious problem of the really impressive spoken dialogue at the title screen, this game also has very little free space and none in the fixed bank.  Furthermore, it's not expandable in its current state and uses a proprietary mapper that has no obvious analogue (to me, anyway) to other mappers.  I didn't bother looking any further than that.

Tsuppari Oozumou: Yecch, vertical text.  Aside from that, it's got 16x16 text including a name entry screen, and only one strip of 256 bytes of (I'm assuming) unused empty space.  Whether or not this would be enough to hold the code necessary to change the mapper to 41 (something which I would suggest for Space Hunter, incidentally) as well as any other necessary hacks that there isn't enough space in the existing code for is hard for me to say, whether or not you went through the herculean effort of converting it to horizontal text.

Zoids: Chuuou Tairiku no Tatakai: An RPG, with the attendant large script.  No obvious free space in the fixed bank, which isn't conducive to major hacking work.  However, the ROM is expandable and it shouldn't be overly difficult to come up with methods to get at that extra space without major rewrites to the text routine if you can find somewhere to put the minimum necessary code.  There's also a decent amount of text already in English (mostly the Zoid names).

SWAT: Special Weapons and Tactics: Much like Zoids, an RPG without much free space that is well within the realm of possibility to expand if one can cram the code in somewhere.  It also has the reputation of being a very hard and buggy kusoge, so have fun with that.

Ide Yosuke Meijin no Jissen Mahjong: Yet Another Mahjong Game that's like all of the other ones except that it uses a special controller.  Shouldn't cause any hacking problems, but will take getting used to.  Again, no free space in the fixed bank, though there's a good amount to be found elsewhere.

Kyonshis 2: Like Mito Koumon, this is a 256KB game that uses a proprietary mapper.  However, this is a more complex mapper and in theory the ROM is expandable, though I see no documentation to confirm this and don't know what if any emulators support it.  Some banks have some free space, while the others including the fixed bank are more stingy.  This game uses three variable 8KB PRG banks, which may be helpful.  Also, the text is encoded strangely (some tile values have $#80 subtracted from them, others $#86), which is a minor annoyance.  Lastly, there are a lot of control codes and they're embedded in the pointer table instead of the text, a much greater annoyance.

Indra no Hikari: Tired of RPGs yet?  This is an MMC1 game and thus very expandable, and due to the fact that there's a PRG access mode that unfixes the fixed bank, you can probably exploit this relatively easily (though I admit I have no experience in this area).  There appears to be a small strip of free space at the end of the fixed bank to facilitate this.  Combined with the standard pointer table, this might be the easiest of the RPGs to do so far, though still a large task obviously.

Hoshi wo Miru Hito: Perhaps the last true "densetsu no kusoge" on the Famicom yet to be fully translated (definitely the most well-known one), Stargazers has the big advantage of having a lot of work already done.  Since KingMike is the one who did it, he'd be a better source for information about it than me.

Uchuusen: Cosmo Carrier: While this game uses standard pointer tables, the text and pointers are scattered all around, at least for the main interface.  Furthermore, the code for the text routine is in the non-fixed banks, which is a pain but could possibly make expansion easier.  Unfortunately, it uses a proprietary mapper with single-screen mirroring that isn't expandable.  The closest analogue appears to be MMC1, but it would still require some work to convert mainly due to that mapper's unique method of bankswitching.  On the bright side, there's free space in the fixed bank to facilitate that, as well as some free space elsewhere.  The text routine also requires an extra byte to print dakuten, which would allow for some savings.

Artelius: The only real problem with this one that I saw is the lack of free space in the fixed bank.  It's an expandable MMC1 game with a standard text routine and quite a bit of free space in some of the other banks.  The text code is again in the non-fixed banks, which may make the full fixed bank less of a problem.  Best of all, a lot of it is already "translated" into Engrish.

Outlanders: This is an expandable UNROM that uses a standard text routine, but there's not much free space anywhere.  Not much else to say about it other than the fact that it's a clunky action-RPG with the requisite amount of text.

Yamamura Misa Suspense: Kyoto Ryuu no Tera Satsujin Jiken: This uses the same mapper as Kyonshis 2, but there's basically no obvious free space anywhere.  On the other hand, while the text routine is normal, a profound amount of space is wasted both on dakuten and padding spaces for the beginning of lines.  The reason for the padding spaces is so dialogue will appear indented after the name of whomever is speaking.  It probably wouldn't be difficult to write a control code to add this padding or just remove it altogether, though that might still not solve your space problem. 

Ginga no Sannin: Arguably the most-wanted translation on this list.  I believe KingMike said he planned to come back to this one this year.  It's another UNROM without much free space to work with.  It uses a standard text routine with the strange twist of it having to read what seems to be junk data before it starts copying text to RAM.  Control codes are also handled in a separate step, and the game already appears to use its own dictionary compression routine.

Mesaze Pachi Pro: Pachio-kun: Another MMC1 game with free space here and there, though not much in the fixed bank.  Looks very straightforward otherwise.

Pro Yakyuu Famista '87: This is just the original Famista (RBI Baseball) with new league data.  The biggest difference is the addition of two teams, which unfortunately makes this not quite as simple as hacking RBI Baseball like the diehards do with Tecmo Super Bowl every year.

I would be willing to try my hand at hacking some of these if someone else would translate the scripts.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 25, 2017, 05:27:42 am
Great work, Pluvius! :) I'm still working my way through the list of 1987, and Touch was one that caught my eye. I expanded the text window in Aighina's Prophecy so I might be able to do it here. I won't be getting to the 1987 games for a little bit, but it's good to know what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on July 25, 2017, 09:52:32 am
I may add more analysis to this list later.  I would be willing to try my hand at hacking some of them if someone else would translate the scripts.
I'm happy to help with any of the smaller scripts.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Cavery210 on July 25, 2017, 04:43:49 pm
I know that the first Dragon Quest probably needs a retranslation due to Puff-puffs and Dev Names being censored and the sprites are much simpler. It also has a password system instead of SRAM. https://tcrf.net/File:Dragon_Quest-town.png

Here's a script you could use: https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563408-dragon-warrior/faqs/42955?print=1
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 25, 2017, 05:30:01 pm
If you really want to play the original yes, but I think the Japanese version is worse in almost all ways.
The sprites are simpler because they can only face down which is awkward and actually kind of creepy IMO. Consequently as if having to open the menu to talk to people wasn't kind of slow, in that version you had an extra step of selecting the direction of the NPC towards the hero.

Also, despite the official localization's flavory text, they sped up the text spreed greatly. As I recall the JP version's text speed was slow enough that despite much fewer words it still took as long.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 25, 2017, 05:31:12 pm
I know that the first Dragon Quest probably needs a retranslation due to Puff-puffs and Dev Names being censored and the sprites are much simpler. It also has a password system instead of SRAM. https://tcrf.net/File:Dragon_Quest-town.png

Here's a script you could use: https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563408-dragon-warrior/faqs/42955?print=1

I think DQ is a low priority since it was a) officially released in English, b) unofficially translated aeons ago on the SNES, and c) officially released again on the Game Boy Color. Having said that, a retranslation probably wouldn't be a bad thing, but you can see why it hasn't happened.

The US version is actually quite different to the Japanese release. There are new sprites to show in which direction you're pointing, and thus you don't need to indicate where you're talking. Also, it uses four 16KB PRG-ROM chips and two 8KB CHR-ROM chips, totalling 80KB, while the original used the opposite, totalling 64KB. Arguably the US version is the improved one, so it would be more logical to apply a retranslation to that instead of the Japanese one (and it would probably save a hell of a lot of effort).

Still, given that someone has gone to the trouble of translating the entire script on GameFAQs, it would probably be pretty simple to swap out the old script with this more accurate one. Unless there's some tricky compression involved, which there probably is. Also the original title needs to return, cause the "Dragon Warrior" one a) is no longer consistent with the series today, and b) sucks. :D

I'll take a look at it (it was in 1986 in Japan, so it does fall into this project in a way), but I doubt I'll do much with it. Perhaps someone else would like to, though.

EDIT: I see KingMike posted before I did with similar comments. Oh well. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: ObiKKa on July 25, 2017, 05:53:44 pm
Have you been aware of Binary Land released on the Famicom in December 1985, which is a much enhanced port of a 1984 MSX port (also released in Europe) of a 1983 FM-7 Original? The Famicom port was never released overseas but all text in it seem to be in English.
The game page (http://www.romhacking.net/games/1155/) for this port has five hacks but no translation.
HG101 (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/binaryland/binaryland.htm) did a retrospective on it recently this month.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 25, 2017, 06:47:17 pm
The Famicom port was never released overseas but all text in it seem to be in English.

You've just answered your own question. :) This project is "Translations of early Famicom games". I just checked Binary Land and there is no Japanese graphics present, unsurprisingly for a game like this. That's typical of early Famicom games (one reason I started the project: I assumed most games wouldn't need translating anyway. :)

Regarding Dragon Quest/Warrior, I just made a table file and I'm quite surprised: there's no compression at all. The text is all in one 16KB bank. Perhaps a retranslation is possible after all...

EDIT: after a bit of work on Dragon Warrior, I understand the text routine and might even be able to implement DTE (if necessary). I must say the game uses a beautiful text routine that loads each word into memory, checks if it will fit on that line, and if it won't then it puts it on the next line, and text can flow as long as you want. Anyone amongst us who has hacked other games will know why I love this, although I don't know if the original Japanese DQ did this since it seems like more of an English thing to do. Nevertheless it means that retranslating the US version is a no-brainer, as it removes a lot of extra work, and besides, the US version is the better version, with SRAM saving instead of passwords, plus better graphics.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 26, 2017, 06:25:05 pm
I did an auto wordwrap on Kaiju Monogatari and it was a pain.
No way was I going to fit some battle text within three line limit with just normal control code usage alone (I recall the original window was 16x4 but I modified it to support something like 24x3). At the start of each line, the game inserts a special code into the window buffer, so if a line overflowed and that code got wiped it would cause an infinite-text softlock.

Though I probably still left a bit of a mess. I tried to add normal SRAM to that game, including adding a save menu I disabled it as it was incomplete and an absolutely terrible and probably not at all hardware compatible code.
(I do remember making an update but I can't recall if it was disabling the single-slot normal SRAM hack for the original Namcot-106 internal-RAM save. Though I don't imagine emulators bothered with a way to distinguish which RAM on that mapper to save, as the internal RAM was used in other N106 games for sound and, as an example, Megami Tensei II used the regular $6000-7FFF RAM for saving.)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on July 27, 2017, 12:13:47 am
City Adventure Touch: Mystery of Triangle: Looks simple.  Bog-standard pointer tables and plenty of free space in the fixed bank.  The small text window is a big pain in the butt, though.  The biggest challenge in this hack would probably either be making the window bigger (there's a lot of space for that) or dealing with it.

Someone popped by my blog and mentioned this game and I can't believe how ridiculous it is. A totally random adventure game for some reason using a license for the characters from Touch? Anyway, I made a quick table file and dumped and translated the "script". Basically all the text that's appears when you talk to folks. I haven't found the couple lines that appear in the dialog box.

Here's most of the script:
Code: [Select]
このまちに くるのは はじめてかい。あぶないから いいものをあげるよ[END]
IS THIS YOUR FIRST TIME IN THIS TOWN? IT'S DANGEROUS SO I'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING USEFUL.[END]

おみせだと おもったでしょうざんねんでした[END]
I'M SORRY, YOU PROBABLY THOUGHT THIS WAS A SHOP.[END]

きたの はずれに かせきのもりが あるといういいつたえが あるよ[END]
THERE ARE STORIES OF A PETRIFIED FOREST ON THE NORTHERN OUTSKIRTS.[END]

みなみの はずれに おてらの まちが あるという はなしがある[END]
I'VE HEARD TALK OF A TEMPLE TOWN ON THE SOUTHERN OUTSKIRTS.[END]

けいけんちは たいせつに するんだよ[END]
YOU SHOULD VALUE EXPERIENCE.[END]

まちの なかには けいけんちを あげるための どうじょう が あるよ[END]
THERE ARE DOJO'S THAT GIVE EXPERIENCE AMONG THE TOWNS.[END]

がっこうの なかに いいところが あるよ[END]
THERE'S A NICE PLACE INSIDE THE SCHOOL.[END]

この まちには 6ぴきの ぬしが いるという[END]
THEY SAY THERE ARE 6 GUARDIANS IN THIS TOWN.[END]

あいてむは おみせに うっているとは かぎらないよ[END]
ITEM'S ARE NOT LIMITED TO BEING SOLD IN SHOPS.[END]

うえうえ したした みぎ ひ だり[END]
UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT.[END]

。。。。。[END]
.....[END]

TOUCH2は みにいったかい[END]
DID YOU GO TO SEE TOUCH 2?[END]

あまり ふぁみこんを やりすぎないようにね[END]
TAKE CARE NOT TO PLAY TOO MUCH FAMICOM OKAY.[END]

1たす1は2だよね[END]
1 PLUS 1 IS 2 YOU KNOW.[END]

PROSー86 って しってる[END]
DO YOU KNOW PROS-86?[END]

はじめは きたのほうの まちにいくと いいよ[END]
YOU SHOULD START BY GOING TO THE TOWN TO THE NORTH.[END]

あいてむは おなじねだんでうってないよ。 やすいところがあるかも[END]
ITEMS DON'T ALWAYS SELL FOR THE SAME PRICE. THERE MAY BE A CHEAPER PLACE.[END]

はいれない ばしょには なにかひみつが あるのかも[END]
PERHAPS THERE IS SOME SECRET REGARDING PLACES YOU CANNOT GO.[END]

じんじゃは おがんでみるかちがある[END]
IT'S WORTH YOUR WHILE TO TRY PRAYING AT SHRINES.[END]

かんづめがたべたいんだけど。。。。[END]
I'D LIKE SOME CANNED FOOD...[END]

ありがとう  SHOP WAOに はいってごらん[END]
THANK YOU. PLEASE ENTER SHOP WAO.[END]

しゅくだいは ちゃんと やったかい[END]
DID YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO?[END]

がっこうには ばけものが いるぞ[END]
THERE'S A MONSTER AT THE SCHOOL.[END]

どこかに こいぬが とらわれて いるぞ[END]
PUPPIES ARE IMPRISONED SOMEPLACE.[END]

がっこうの  ばけものは さびつかせるといい[END]
YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE SCHOOL'S MONSTER ALONE.[END]

ちゃんと べんきょう してる[END]
I'M STUDYING LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO.[END]

きをつけるんだよ。ちかくに  ばけものがいる[END]
BE CAREFUL. THERE'S A MONSTER NEARBY.[END]

あいつを たおすために ひつような あいてむを もっているかい[END]
DO YOU HAVE THE ITEM NECESSARY TO BEAT THEM?[END]

がっこうの なかには たおすのに あいてむがいる てきが いるぞ[END]
WITHIN THE SCHOOL IS AN ENEMY WITH THE ITEM TO DEFEAT THEM.[END]

そうこの どこかを なぐるとなにかがおきるらしい[END]
IT APPEARS SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN IF YOU HIT SOMEPLACE IN THE STOREROOM/STOREHOUSE/WAREHOUSE.[END]

はいれなかった みちに はいってごらん  それから あとで もういちど おいで[END]
TRY TO ENTER THE PATH YOU CANNOT ENTER AND COME HERE ONCE MORE.[END]

この かがみをもっていくと いい[END]
YOU MAY TAKE THIS MIRROR.[END]

いっしょに あそばないかい[END]
WILL YOU PLAY WITH ME?[END]

たしかに おあ ずかりします[END]
CERTAINLY, I WILL TAKE THAT.[END]

いらっしゃいませ[END]
WELCOME.[END]

きの ほらあなにはいるには おのを てにもたないと いけない[END]
YOU CANNOT ENTER THE TREE CAVE WITHOUT THE AX.[END]

がけの ほらあなに はいるにはしゃべるが いるよ[END]
THERE IS A CHANT TO ENTER THE CLIFF CAVE.[END]

もりの はずれの せいんとに あったかい[END]
DID YOU (MEET?) THE SAINT ON THE FOREST OUTSKIRTS?[END]

この もりには はいれない みちが あるというはなしがある[END]
THEY SAY THERE IS A PATH YOU CANNOT TRAVEL IN THIS FOREST.[END]

うみべの じんじゃは なんかいも おまいりしないと ごりやくがないよ[END]
IF YOU DON'T PRAY REPEATEDLY AT THE SHRINE ON THE BEACH, YOUR PRAYERS WILL NOT BE ANSWERED.[END]

ざんねんでした はずれだよ[END]
THAT'S TOO BAD. YOU DIDN'T WIN.[END]

なにしに きたんだい[END]
WHAT DID YOU COME HERE FOR.[END]

てがみは うけとったよ。これをもっていくといい[END]
I RECEIVED A LETTER. YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS.[END]

かせきに なったものは じぶんの すがたをみせるといいらしい[END]
IT SEEMS YOU SHOULD SHOW YOUR FIGURE TO THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN FOSSILIZED.[END]

となりの せいんとが なにか いいことを おしえてくれるよ[END]
THE SAINT NEXT DOOR WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING GOOD.[END]

はやく あぱーとに とじこめられている こいぬを たすけておやり[END]
HURRY AND HELP THE PUPPY SHUT AWAY IN AN APARTMENT.[END]

あぱーとは  じゅんばんにまわると なにかおこるらしい[END]
IT SEEMS SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN IF YOU TURN AROUND IN THE APARTMENT IN ORDER.[END]

ひだり みぎうえ ひだり みぎ うえ。。。。。[END]
LEFT, UPPER-RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, UP....[END]

あぱーとには かたい おばけが いるらしい[END]
THERE SEEMS TO BE A DIFFICULT MONSTER IN THE APARTMENT.[END]

もえそうな お ばけは もやしてたいじできるはずだよ[END]
YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO BURN TO DEATH MONSTERS WHO APPEAR BURNABLE.[END]

かなづちは もっているかい。たぶん ひつようだよ[END]
DO YOU HAVE A HAMMER? YOU'LL PROBABLY NEED ONE.[END]

おやおや なにかようじかい[END]
OH MY, DO YOU NEED SOMETHING.[END]

こんなところでうろうろしていないで はやくいきなさい[END]
DON'T LOITER HERE. HURRY AND GET GOING.[END]

きたまくらに きをつけるんだよ[END]
BEWARE OF SLEEPING WITH YOUR HEAD TO THE NORTH.[END]

この さきの うみべの じんじゃには ぜひ おまいりしたほうがいいよ[END]
YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY PRAY AT THE SHRINE AT THE BEACH UP AHEAD.[END]

この まちの いりぐちと でぐちは いっ ぽうつうこう だよ[END]
THIS TOWN'S ENTRANCE AND EXIT ARE ONE WAY STREETS.[END]

このまちには きょだいな にんぎょうが いる[END]
THERE'S A HUGE DOLL IN THIS TOWN.[END]

めには めを にんぎょうには にんぎょうを[END]
AN EYE FOR AN EYE, A DOLL FOR A DOLL.[END]

みぎまわりに いけば この まちの ちゅうしんぶへ いける[END]
IF YOU GO IN A CLOCKWISE ROTATION YOU CAN REACH THE HEART OF THE TOWN.[END]

この まちに ようこそ。ふるいまちなみを ゆっくり みてよ[END]
WELCOME TO THIS TOWN. TAKE YOUR TIME APPRECIATING THE OLD SHOPS.[END]

こいんは もうみつけたかい。このちかくに あるはずだよ[END]
HAVE YOU FOUND THE COIN YET. IT SHOULD BE NEAR HERE.[END]

このまちの でぐちには き が うえてある[END]
THIS TOWN'S EXIT IS PLANTED WITH TREES.[END]

この さきの うみべの じんじゃには ぜひ おまいりすると いい[END]
YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY PRAY AT THE SHRINE AT THE BEACH UP AHEAD.[END]

あなたは かみをしんじますか[END]
DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?[END]

こいぬは 8ぴき たすけたかい[END]
HAVE YOU RESCUED 8 PUPPIES?[END]

となりの ちゅうかがいにも  いくといい[END]
YOU SHOULD VISIT CHINATOWN NEXT DOOR.[END]

となりの ちゅうかがいに ひつような ものがある[END]
THERE IS SOMETHING NECESSARY IN CHINATOWN NEXT DOOR.[END]

みぎへ いけ ば ふゆの もりに ゆける[END]
IF YOU GO TO THE RIGHT YOU CAN REACH WINTER FOREST.[END]

ひだりに いけば もりの はずれ[END]
THE FOREST'S OUTSKIRTS ARE TO THE LEFT.[END]

この もりの きの おばけは もやしてしまえ ば いい[END]
YOU SHOULD BURN THIS FOREST'S TREE MONSTER.[END]

このしたの みちは いっぽうつうこうだから したには いけないよ[END]
THE STREET BELOW HERE IS ONE WAY SO YOU CANNOT GO DOWN.[END]

この せいなる べるで そとの おばけがたおせるよ。もっておゆき[END]
YOU CAN DEFEAT THE MONSTERS OUTSIDE WITH THIS HOLY BELL. TAKE IT WITH YOU.[END]

この べるを あげよう あとで やくにたつだろうから たいせつにね[END]
THIS BELL WILL BE HELPFUL, SO AFTER I GIVE IT TO YOU, BE SURE TO TAKE CARE OF IT.[END]

きょうかいの おばけを たおすには せいなるゆびわが いる[END]
THERE IS A HOLY RING TO DEFEAT THE CHURCH'S MONSTER.[END]

だいせいどうに はいるには この ほうせき が いるぞ[END]
THIS GEM IS FOR ENTERING THE CATHEDRAL.[END]

きょうかいの おばけを たおしたいのだろう。これを もっていくといい[END]
YOU WANT TO DEFEAT THE CHURCH'S MONSTER DON'T YOU. YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS.[END]

もういっけんの くすりや には ひみつが ある[END]
IT LOOKS LIKE A PHARMACY, BUT IT HAS A SECRET.[END]

このまちの みんなの あいそがよくなったら くすりやへ いってごらん[END]
TRY GOING IF YOU (WANT TO) IMPROVE THE MOOD OF EVERYONE IN TOWN.[END]

おたより おまちしていまーす[END]
I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU.[END]

この まちの うごく みずたまりは てきじゃないぞ[END]
THE MOVING PUDDLES ON THE STREET ARE NOT ENEMIES.[END]

この まちの うごく みずたまりを あつめると なにかおこるらしい[END]
IT APPEARS SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN IF YOU COLLECT THE MOVING PUDDLES.[END]

みずを くむのに つかうものはきまっているよね[END]
YOU MUST USE SOMETHING TO SCOOP THE WATER OF COURSE.[END]

さるかに がっせんを しっているかい[END]
DO YOU KNOW THE STORY OF THE MONKEY AND THE CRAB?[END]

じんじゃの かにの おばけを たおすには くだものが いる[END]
THERE IS A FRUIT TO DEFEAT THE CRAB MONSTER IN THE SHRINE.[END]

そうこがいの こんてなには なにか ひみつがあるらしい[END]
IT SEEMS THERE'S SOME SECRET TO THE CONTAINERS AT THE WAREHOUSE DISTRICT.[END]

がっこうへ はいるなら ないふを かって いくと いい[END]
YOU SHOULD BUY A KNIFE IF YOU WANT TO ENTER THE SCHOOL.[END]

6ぴきの ぬしは それぞれ たおすのに ひつような あいてむがある[END]
THERE'S A NECESSARY ITEM IN ORDER TO DEFEAT THE 6 GUARDIANS.[END]

たべものは もっていると いいことが あるよ[END]
IT MAY BE GOOD IF YOU HAVE FOOD.[END]

ここは まちの まんなか あたりだよ[END]
THIS IS THE TOWNS CENTRAL AREA.[END]
(Note: Machi should mean town, but it may mean street here in some (all?) instances. I used town most of the time.)

EDIT:
Never mind. I found the "dialog" text:
Code: [Select]
ねえねえ ふたりとも りゅっくさっくを かったら[END]
HEY, WHAT IF YOU TWO BOUGHT BACKPACKS.[END]

おやすみ みたいね[END]
THEY LOOK TO BE ON BREAK.[END]

はいるのは やめようよぉ[END]
LET'S NOT GO IN THERE.[END]

せいんとに なにか おみやげをかわない[END]
WHY DON'T WE BUY A SOUVENIR FOR THE SAINT.[END]

かんづめや みたいね それにしても たっかーい[END]
THEY APPEAR TO SELL CANNED FOOD. IT'S EXPENSIVE THOUGH.[END]

おもしろそうな ものを うっているね[END]
THEY'RE SELLING SOME INTERESTING THINGS.[END]

なんだか こわくない[END]
I'M NOT AFRAID AT ALL.[END]

もう たっちゃんどうにかしてよ[END]
JEEZ, PLEASE DO SOMETHING TA-CHAN.[END]

もう かっちゃんどうにかしてよ[END]
JEEZ, PLEASE DO SOMETHING KA-CHAN.[END]

 きゃっ[END]
 EEK![END]

 いたーい[END]
 OWW[END]

つかれたよ[END]
I'M POOPED.[END]

あれ そとに   でちゃった[END]
HUH, WE APPEARED OUTSIDE.[END]

るすみたいね[END]
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE OUT.[END]

だれも いないみたいね[END]
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANYONE IS HERE.[END]

あきや みたいね[END]
IT LOOKS UNOCCUPIED.[END]

だれも いないみたいね[END]
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANYONE IS HERE.[END]

うあー うみがみえる[END]
WHOA-, I CAN SEE THE SEA.[END]

あいていない みたいね[END]
IT LOOKS VACANT.[END]

かぎが かかって いるみたいね[END]
IT APPEARS TO BE LOCKED.[END]

ごみを あさって どうするの[END]
WHAT ARE YOU DOING SEARCHING THE TRASH.[END]

なにか いいことが かいてあるの[END]
SOMETHING HELPFUL IS WRITTEN.[END]

でんちゅうに のぼるの[END]
CLIMB THE TELEPHONE POLE?[END]

いきどまり みたいね[END]
IT APPEARS TO BE A DEAD END.[END]

そこは はいれないんじゃない[END]
WE CAN'T GO IN THERE.[END]

Notes:
Script text
0x977-12C0
0x1515C-0x152BC

Title screen text
0x14D30-0x14E16

Character names
0x14E59-0x14F5D

Password screen
0X14F77
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 27, 2017, 07:26:47 am
Dude, you just translated the whole of Touch?! That's awesome. :) I might just get on with that when I can, using your script. Hey, you couldn't help out with Time Stranger could you? I'm having problems with some lines. :) Kana only text is a pain. Maybe I should make a new thread in the Script Help section.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on July 27, 2017, 12:45:01 pm
Dude, you just translated the whole of Touch?! That's awesome. :) I might just get on with that when I can, using your script.

Yep. :) That would be sweet.

Hey, you couldn't help out with Time Stranger could you? I'm having problems with some lines. :) Kana only text is a pain. Maybe I should make a new thread in the Script Help section.

I struggle myself with all kana scripts in places. I'm sure this one could use a look-over, though I did watch this play-through (https://youtu.be/DQr1YhbXADw) and checked against it for context, but they didn't hit a lot of the text.

I'm happy to check your Time Stranger script. I'd go ahead and post it in Script Help like you were thinking, that way there are even more eyes on it.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 27, 2017, 10:29:11 pm
I had dumped City Touch earlier and had begun on it (I got as far as mapping the game as much as I could without actually progressing). From memory, the issue that made me put it aside was figuring out a way to clear the smaller text box after switching screens, as my plan had been to redesign the HUD to have a bigger text box to be reused for "inside" text.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 28, 2017, 03:31:40 am
So, mini update, with a question.

A few days ago Cavery210 suggested a retranslation of Dragon Quest/Warrior, providing a link to a good-looking script on GameFAQs. Since then I've added a DTE routine to Dragon Warrior and successfully inserted some text from that translation, with space to spare of course. So now it's just a case of copy-pasting the translation into the ROM and calling it a day (although I would like to replace the title screen, obviously). It's amazing that nobody thought of this before, given how little trouble I've had with it.

I do have one question, though, regarding the translation: it uses the same old-style 2nd person pronouns as in the official translation (thou, thee, thy, thine), and I'm not entirely sure I want it. I know he probably used that because it was like that in the official one, but the Japanese doesn't suggest some old-style language as far as I can see, and not all characters talk like that in his translation. So, what do you guys think? I have to email the guy, of course, because I don't want to make the patch without his permission, and ESPECIALLY if I want to remove 'thou' from it. Opinions?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 28, 2017, 04:51:23 am
I've updated my post above with more games.

filler, thanks for posting the City Adventure Touch script.  I will probably be looking at The Black Bass first myself, though, since that gives me an excuse to do some C programming, which I have even less experience with than 6502 assembly.

Psyklax, I think that would be a "spoony bard" situation.  People probably wouldn't get as angry if you changed the archaic dialogue as they would if Square changed that line, but it's still part of what makes people remember those games so fondly.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on July 28, 2017, 08:01:40 am
Speaking of the games Pluvius mentioned, I remember trying out Tokoro-san no Mamoru mo Semeru mo and Mito Koumon. The first one has barely any text, whereas the characters in Mito Koumon never seem to shut up. Mito Koumon also had a sequel of sorts, which I think came out in 1988. Not surprising, considering that the show it's likely based off of had more than 1000 episodes, and Mitsukini himself is a very popular/well-known character in Japan.
As to Dragon Quest, I'd say it's up to you. Either way would be fine IMO, although if the archaic speech wasn't there in the first place, there's likely no need to do that. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: rainponcho on July 28, 2017, 08:59:25 am
My take would be.. how does the rest of the series go, averaging all the reboots, remakes and modern #d titles?

I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 people who would cry over the loss of 'honorifics' or something of that type. Or changing it back to Roto / Loto. They're likely more concerned about canon and terminology.



I think (thy, thee, thou, thine, ..) sometimes more distracting when it's over-abused. It's so "_formal_" and easily stereotyped. "Flashy" when thrown in just to look fancy (in a cheap way).

https://www.ecclesia.org/truth/thou.html
http://unenlightenedenglish.com/2009/07/thou-thee-thy-thine-ye-shakespearean-english/


Wizardry series uses it more often, even for Empire spellbook names (only Valiant holy religious class).

Maybe anyone who {considers} themself pretty important. Possibly in a demeaning "enlightened educated" way. High position authority.


I'll stop blabbing. Getting more confused. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 28, 2017, 12:01:45 pm
The Mito Koumon games have a bit of voiced lines, as I recall. (if in terribly scratchy 8-bit audio :P )
I suppose it's most likely a fan-translation would just ignore them, though.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on July 28, 2017, 12:31:53 pm
So, mini update, with a question.

A few days ago Cavery210 suggested a retranslation of Dragon Quest/Warrior, providing a link to a good-looking script on GameFAQs. Since then I've added a DTE routine to Dragon Warrior and successfully inserted some text from that translation, with space to spare of course. So now it's just a case of copy-pasting the translation into the ROM and calling it a day (although I would like to replace the title screen, obviously). It's amazing that nobody thought of this before, given how little trouble I've had with it.

I do have one question, though, regarding the translation: it uses the same old-style 2nd person pronouns as in the official translation (thou, thee, thy, thine), and I'm not entirely sure I want it. I know he probably used that because it was like that in the official one, but the Japanese doesn't suggest some old-style language as far as I can see, and not all characters talk like that in his translation. So, what do you guys think? I have to email the guy, of course, because I don't want to make the patch without his permission, and ESPECIALLY if I want to remove 'thou' from it. Opinions?

Why not use  Square Enix's official retranslation they made for the smartphone remake?

The dialogue was revized in the transition from FC to mobile, but the translation is top-notch. It impresses me how well-written it is. Here's an example of the differences:

FC: "ああ [HERO]! ゆうしゃロトの ちをひくものよ! そなたのくるのをまっておったぞ. その むかし ゆうしゃロトが カミから ひかりのたまをさずかり まものたちをふうじこめたという. しかし いずこともなくあらわれた あくまのけしん りゅうおうが そのたまを やみにとざしたのじゃ. このちに ふたたびへいわをっ! ゆうしゃ [HERO]よ! りゅうおうをたおし そのてから ひかりのたまをとりもどしてくれ! わしからの おくりものじゃ! そなたのよこにある たからのはこを とるがよい! そして このへやにいる へいしにきけば たびのちしきを おしえてくれよう. では また あおう! ゆうしゃ [HERO]よ!"

Mobile: "おお! [HERO]! 勇者ロトの 血をひきし者よ! そなたが来るのを 待っておった. その昔 伝説の勇者ロトは 神から ひかりのたまを さずかり この世界を おおっていた まものたちを封じこめたという. しかし いずこともなく現れた 悪魔の化身 竜王が その玉を 闇にとざしたのじゃ! このままでわ 世界は 闇に のみこまれ やがて ほろんでしまうことらどう. 勇者[HERO]よ! 竜王をたおし その手から ひかりのたまを 取りもどしてくれ! わしからの おくり物じゃ! そこにある宝箱を 開けるがよい. そなたの役に立つ物が 入っておるはずじゃ. そして この部屋にいる者に たずねれば 旅の心得を 教えてくれよう. では また合おう! 勇者[HERO]よ!」"

NES: "Descendant of Erdrick, listen now to my words. It is told that in ages past, Erdrick fought demons with a Ball of Light. Then came the Dragonlord who stole the precious globe and hid it in the darkness. Now, [HERO], thou must help us recover the Ball of Light and restore peace to our land. the Dragonlord must be defeated. Take now whatever thou may find in these Treasure Chests to aid thee in thy quest. Then speak with the guards, for they have much knowledge that may aid thee. May the light shine upon thee, [HERO]."

GB: "Welcome...... I the distant past... The gods gave Loto the Light Orb. With it, he drove away the monsters that lay siege to the land. But DracoLord, evil incarnate, emerged from nowhere and sealed the sacred orb in darkness. Without it, darkness will swallow the world. Extinction will soon befall us. Brave [HERO]! We implore you to defeat DracoLord and recover the Light Orb. Take what you find in the chests. They should help your quest. Speak to those in my chamber. They will give you worldly advice. Let us meet again, brave [HERO]!"

Mobile: "[HERO]! Scion of the bloodline of Erdrick, hero of legend! Long have I awaited thy coming! In days of yore, thy revered ancestors did receive of the Almighty Goddess the Sphere of Light. By its power was our world rid of the menace which did beset it. Yet, alas, some few years past, there did arise a new threat—the Dragonlord. With his cunning, he did steal away the Sphere of Light from us, plunging the land into darkness once more. Should this state of affairs be suffered to continue, the night must surely take unrelenting hold, and our realm perish. So I say unto thee, [HERO] of the bloodline of heroes, vanquish the accursed Dragonlord, and reclaim the Sphere of Light! In the chests o're yonder wilt thou find items to aid thee on thy quest. Take what thou wilt, with my blessing. Partake thee also of the wisdom of those loyal subjects gathered here in my throne room. Doubt not but that their knowledge will serve thee as well as any shield. May the Goddess guide thee to victory, and return thee unto us ere long, brave [HERO]!"
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 29, 2017, 12:16:40 pm
If you're not translating the version as it is presented, then you're not really re-translating it. You're changing it to something else.
Also, wow that would be a lot of text for an NES game if everything is wordy like that.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Spinner 8 on July 29, 2017, 12:57:24 pm
Why not use  Square Enix's official retranslation they made for the smartphone remake?

The dialogue was revized in the transition from FC to mobile, but the translation is top-notch. It impresses me how well-written it is. Here's an example of the differences:

FC: "ああ [HERO]! ゆうしゃロトの ちをひくものよ! そなたのくるのをまっておったぞ. その むかし ゆうしゃロトが カミから ひかりのたまをさずかり まものたちをふうじこめたという. しかし いずこともなくあらわれた あくまのけしん りゅうおうが そのたまを やみにとざしたのじゃ. このちに ふたたびへいわをっ! ゆうしゃ [HERO]よ! りゅうおうをたおし そのてから ひかりのたまをとりもどしてくれ! わしからの おくりものじゃ! そなたのよこにある たからのはこを とるがよい! そして このへやにいる へいしにきけば たびのちしきを おしえてくれよう. では また あおう! ゆうしゃ [HERO]よ!"

Mobile: "おお! [HERO]! 勇者ロトの 血をひきし者よ! そなたが来るのを 待っておった. その昔 伝説の勇者ロトは 神から ひかりのたまを さずかり この世界を おおっていた まものたちを封じこめたという. しかし いずこともなく現れた 悪魔の化身 竜王が その玉を 闇にとざしたのじゃ! このままでわ 世界は 闇に のみこまれ やがて ほろんでしまうことらどう. 勇者[HERO]よ! 竜王をたおし その手から ひかりのたまを 取りもどしてくれ! わしからの おくり物じゃ! そこにある宝箱を 開けるがよい. そなたの役に立つ物が 入っておるはずじゃ. そして この部屋にいる者に たずねれば 旅の心得を 教えてくれよう. では また合おう! 勇者[HERO]よ!」"

NES: "Descendant of Erdrick, listen now to my words. It is told that in ages past, Erdrick fought demons with a Ball of Light. Then came the Dragonlord who stole the precious globe and hid it in the darkness. Now, [HERO], thou must help us recover the Ball of Light and restore peace to our land. the Dragonlord must be defeated. Take now whatever thou may find in these Treasure Chests to aid thee in thy quest. Then speak with the guards, for they have much knowledge that may aid thee. May the light shine upon thee, [HERO]."

GB: "Welcome...... I the distant past... The gods gave Loto the Light Orb. With it, he drove away the monsters that lay siege to the land. But DracoLord, evil incarnate, emerged from nowhere and sealed the sacred orb in darkness. Without it, darkness will swallow the world. Extinction will soon befall us. Brave [HERO]! We implore you to defeat DracoLord and recover the Light Orb. Take what you find in the chests. They should help your quest. Speak to those in my chamber. They will give you worldly advice. Let us meet again, brave [HERO]!"

Mobile: "[HERO]! Scion of the bloodline of Erdrick, hero of legend! Long have I awaited thy coming! In days of yore, thy revered ancestors did receive of the Almighty Goddess the Sphere of Light. By its power was our world rid of the menace which did beset it. Yet, alas, some few years past, there did arise a new threat—the Dragonlord. With his cunning, he did steal away the Sphere of Light from us, plunging the land into darkness once more. Should this state of affairs be suffered to continue, the night must surely take unrelenting hold, and our realm perish. So I say unto thee, [HERO] of the bloodline of heroes, vanquish the accursed Dragonlord, and reclaim the Sphere of Light! In the chests o're yonder wilt thou find items to aid thee on thy quest. Take what thou wilt, with my blessing. Partake thee also of the wisdom of those loyal subjects gathered here in my throne room. Doubt not but that their knowledge will serve thee as well as any shield. May the Goddess guide thee to victory, and return thee unto us ere long, brave [HERO]!"

Man, I didn't realize how much the GB translation sucks until you put them all side by side like that
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 29, 2017, 05:54:22 pm
that would be a lot of text for an NES game if everything is wordy like that.

It would, though after getting the DTE working it might still fit. Though I think most gamers would agree that brevity is the soul of wit, and such a wordy translation is more pain than pleasure.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on July 29, 2017, 07:25:00 pm
The dialogue seems to be taken from the revised dialogue of the Super NES remake. Most likely the changes are only for the more important scenes and aren't all that frequent. But in any case, it wouldn't be too hard to modify the mobile version's translation to better match the famicom version's dialogue, and even make it less wordy. If not, then I would have to recommend the Game Boy version's translation since it seems to be far better written than both the NES translation and the fan-translation that was linked to.

Below is a comparison of Erdrick/Loto's message to his descendant. However, I modified the mobile version's translation in two ways: removed the last two lines which was added by the Super NES version, and made it slightly less wordy.

NES: "I am Erdrick and thou art my descendant. Three items were needed to reach the Isle of Dragons, which is south of Brecconary. I gathered these items, reached the island, and there defeated a creature of great evil. Now I have entrusted the three items to three worthy keepers. Their descendants will protect the items until thy quest leads thee to seek them out. When a new evil arises, find the three items, then fight!"

GB: "My name is Loto. To my descendant... To reach the demonic island that can be seen from Tantegel, three magic implements were needed. I used them to cross the sea and defeat the lord of the demons. I will entrust the three mystic items with three sages. Their descendants will guard them. When evil returns to that island, collect the items and fight it. The three sages are waiting. It is your duty to go, my progeny!

Mobile: "I am Erdrick. Here me well, descendant... If you would reach the evil island visible from Tantegel's Shore, you will require the three sacred artefacts. Gather them, and you may yet cross to that accursed isle, and destroy the source of all evil, as I , too, did so long ago. Before my passing, I entrusted the three objects to three great sages. If the fates have been kind, their descendants guard them still. When evil rules the ill-starred isle once more... Gather the hallowed triad, and strike a blow for the cause of light."
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on July 29, 2017, 09:58:00 pm
Man, I didn't realize how much the GB translation sucks until you put them all side by side like that

The GBC version sounds like a more literal translation than the others.
I've guessed it was a deliberate choice to have less text since the GBC is probably the platform with the least pleasant screen for extended reading on. :) (and the lowest resolution)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on July 30, 2017, 12:28:51 am
The Game Boy version's translation doesn't really have any less text than the NES translation, and it's actually LESS literal than the NES translation.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 30, 2017, 03:46:49 pm
Okay, since it's my thread I think I need my own opinion on all this discussion. :D

My feeling is, if you want a liberal interpretation of the original Dragon Quest, you have Dragon Warrior on NES and Dragon Warrior I & II on GBC. Personally, I'd rather go LITERAL than LIBERAL, in that case, and clearly the fan translation on GameFAQs is a very literal translation indeed - aside from all the thous and thines. So personally, I'd go for that. Since you mention that there are other releases games with English translations, I'd say "well play them, then". :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 31, 2017, 03:33:51 am
Added a few more games to my post.

On the Black Bass front, I have the script dumped and translated.  There's only one thing that I could use some insight on.  There are five areas in the game to fish, and they have names that are puntastic versions of real Japanese places.  The first four I got pretty easily but I'm stumped on the fifth one.

Code: [Select]
あしなこ --> Ashinako --> Ashinoko (Lake Ashi)
かわくちこ --> Lake Kawakuchi --> Lake Kawaguchi
やまそとこ --> Lake Yamasoto (outside the mountain) --> Lake Yamanaka (inside the mountain)
ひ゜わこ --> Lake Piwa --> Lake Biwa
けはらた゛む --> Kehara Dam --> ???

The most well-known dam in Japan is Kurobe Dam, but I don't get the connection.  If no one here knows it, I'll just translate it directly.  It's a little thing that I wouldn't even bother starting a thread in Script Help for, I just thought I'd bring it up.  I should be starting the rest of the hacking process in a few days.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on July 31, 2017, 03:56:37 am
Zoids: Chuuou Tairiku no Tatakai: An RPG, with the attendant large script.  No obvious free space in the fixed bank, which isn't conducive to major hacking work.  However, the ROM is expandable and it shouldn't be overly difficult to come up with methods to get at that extra space without major rewrites to the text routine if you can find somewhere to put the minimum necessary code.  There's also a decent amount of text already in English (mostly the Zoid names).

SWAT: Special Weapons and Tactics: Much like Zoids, an RPG without much free space that is well within the realm of possibility to expand if one can cram the code in somewhere.  It also has the reputation of being a very hard and buggy kusoge, so have fun with that.

Indra no Hikari: Tired of RPGs yet?  This is an MMC1 game and thus very expandable, and due to the fact that there's a PRG access mode that unfixes the fixed bank, you can probably exploit this relatively easily (though I admit I have no experience in this area).  There appears to be a small strip of free space at the end of the fixed bank to facilitate this.  Combined with the standard pointer table, this might be the easiest of the RPGs to do so far, though still a large task obviously.

Filler translated Zoids already - you can find the script here: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=24161.0, so with this one it's basically mostly a matter of hacking and perhaps some script revision.

SWAT is supposedly one of the buggiest Famicom games ever, which is why it's considered to be a terrible kusoge in Japan. It has tons of gamebreaking bugs - for instance, the game can randomly freeze at the end of each mission, after you kill all the terrorists, and the chance of that happening is pretty high. I think Pennywise looked into this one...?

I think someone is working on the Light of Indra. I noticed a video playthrough of that game in English somewhere online, just didn't look too much into it, so as not to spoil the game for myself. :) So, it's likely going to be finished at some point too, hopefully soon enough!



Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on July 31, 2017, 05:45:25 am
Okay, since it's my thread I think I need my own opinion on all this discussion. :D

My feeling is, if you want a liberal interpretation of the original Dragon Quest, you have Dragon Warrior on NES and Dragon Warrior I & II on GBC. Personally, I'd rather go LITERAL than LIBERAL, in that case, and clearly the fan translation on GameFAQs is a very literal translation indeed - aside from all the thous and thines. So personally, I'd go for that. Since you mention that there are other releases games with English translations, I'd say "well play them, then". :)

I see. It's just that...I feel like the fan translation on GameFAQs is just as wonky as the official NES translation, so there's almost no point. With translations like "It is said that long ago the Hero Loto was given a Ball of Light from God and sealed away monsters.", you've got a missing comma after 'ago', and the "sealed away monsters" part isn't conveyed as something he could do BECUZ of the ball of light. I would even suggest simply uncensoring the original translation to make it easier for yourself, but you, of course, can do as you please, as I will not mind substituting one wonky translation for another. The only thing that matters to me is the removal of that ugly "Dragon Warriors" logo. Haha. :)

Also, thank you for work so far. Several games I wanted translations for, you have done.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on July 31, 2017, 12:54:18 pm
Code: [Select]
けはらた゛む --> Kehara Dam --> ???

Looks like this is referencing Ikehara Dam. https://fishingvision.tv/video/d-impact/fishing-ikehabara-dam.php

http://damnet.or.jp/cgi-bin/binranA/enAll.cgi?db4=1565
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on July 31, 2017, 01:41:04 pm
you've got a missing comma after 'ago', and the "sealed away monsters" part isn't conveyed as something he could do BECUZ of the ball of light. I would even suggest simply uncensoring the original translation to make it easier for yourself, but you, of course, can do as you please, as I will not mind substituting one wonky translation for another. The only thing that matters to me is the removal of that ugly "Dragon Warriors" logo. Haha. :)

Forgive me for saying, but calling it a wonky translation because of the omission of a comma here or there is rather uncharitable to say the least. :) Having compared it to the original Japanese it looks pretty faithful to me, which as I said is the whole point. I just don't see why to take the script from a remake when you can just play the remake.

Of course I want to replace the logo with the Dragon Quest one, and I'm in the process of figuring out how it's done in the code.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on July 31, 2017, 10:03:07 pm
Well, we sure got Indra no Hikari off of the list quickly enough.

Looks like this is referencing Ikehara Dam. https://fishingvision.tv/video/d-impact/fishing-ikehabara-dam.php

http://damnet.or.jp/cgi-bin/binranA/enAll.cgi?db4=1565

Yeah, that looks about right, comparing Google Maps to the in-game map.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 01, 2017, 08:05:01 am
Forgive me for saying, but calling it a wonky translation because of the omission of a comma here or there is rather uncharitable to say the least. :) Having compared it to the original Japanese it looks pretty faithful to me, which as I said is the whole point. I just don't see why to take the script from a remake when you can just play the remake.

I'm not saying that just from the lack of commas, tho; It's also full of run-on sentences, robotic dialog, and things that don't make sense ("If you took all the treasure boxes, there should have been a key inside.". I know it doesn't say "took FROM" in Japanese, but they have a different way of speaking than us.)... But I digress. Good luck with the title screen hacking. I can only assume it'll be tough since you KNOW someone would've done this long ago if they could've. :O
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 01, 2017, 06:29:48 pm
I'm not saying that just from the lack of commas, tho; It's also full of run-on sentences, robotic dialog, and things that don't make sense ("If you took all the treasure boxes, there should have been a key inside.". I know it doesn't say "took FROM" in Japanese, but they have a different way of speaking than us.)... But I digress. Good luck with the title screen hacking. I can only assume it'll be tough since you KNOW someone would've done this long ago if they could've. :O

You know, now that I've got the text sorted out, I might as well do several patches, one for each translation. That way everyone's happy! :D

As for the title screen, I don't think it'll be difficult at all, I just need time to look into it, because I'm a bit busy with life right now.

And on another topic, I've finally gone through each game from 1987 and filled out my list! :) Let's take a look!

Code: [Select]
Arabian Dream Scheherazade Localised - The Magic of Scheherazade
Artelius No
Attack Animal Gakuen Yes - PentarouZero
Batsu & Terii - Makyou no Tetsujin Race Yes - Zynk Oxhyde
Bio Senshi Dan - Increaser Tono Tatakai Yes - Abstract Crouton Productions
Black Bass, The No
Booby Kids No
Chester Field - Ankoku Shin e no Chousen Yes - Aeon Genesis (inc)
City Adventure Touch - Mystery of Triangle No
Digital Devil Monogatari - Megami Tensei Yes - EsperKnight, Stardust Crusaders
Dragon Scroll - Yomigaerishi Maryuu Yes - KingMike
Erunaaku no Zaihou Yes - MrRichard999
Esper Bouken Tai Yes - Aishsha
Family Jockey Yes - MrRichard999
Family Mahjong No
Family Tennis Yes - Goldenband
Family Trainer 4 - Jogging Race Yes - MrRichard999, Jink640
Family Trainer 5 - Meiro Daisakusen No
Family Trainer 8 - Totsugeki! Fuuun Takeshi Jou Yes - MrRichard999, AgentOrange
Ge Ge Ge no Kitarou 2 - Youkai Gundan no Chousen Yes - Aishsha, Djinn
Getsufuu Maden Yes - RPGe
Ginga no Sannin No
Golf Club Birdie Rush Yes - MrRichard999
Haja no Fuuin No
Hana no Star Kaidou Yes - GAFF Translations
Herakles no Eikou - Toujin Makyou Den Yes - DvD Translations
Hi no Tori - Houou Hen - Gaou no Bouken Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Higemaru Makaijima - Nanatsu no Shima Daibouken Yes - Snark
Hikari no Senshi Photon - The Ultimate Game on Planet Earth Yes - KingMike
Hokkaidou Rensa Satsujin - Okhotsk ni Kiyu No
Hoshi wo Miru Hito No
Ide Yousuke Meijin no Jissen Mahjong No
Igo - Kyuu Roban Taikyoku Yes - Helly, MrRichard999, Proveaux
Ikinari Musician No
Indora no Hikari No
Jikuu Yuuden - Debias Yes - Gil Galad
JJ - Tobidase Daisakusen Part 2 Yes - DvD Translations
Jongbou No
Karaoke Studio No
Karaoke Studio Senyou Cassette Vol 1 No
Kyonshiizu 2 No
Labyrinth Yes - Suicidal Translations
Law of the West No
Lost Word of Jenny Yes - Zynk Oxhyde
Lupin Sansei - Pandora no Isan Yes - Vice Translations
Magnum Kiki Ippatsu - Empire City - 1931 No
Majou Densetsu II - Daimashikyou Galious Yes - Manipulate
Mezase Pachi Pro - Pachio-kun No
Minelvaton Saga - Ragon no Fukkatsu Yes - Aishsha
Mirai Shinwa Jarvas Yes - Stardust Crusaders, Aishsha
Momotarou Dentetsu - Peach Boy Legend Yes - KingMike
Morita Shougi No
Nangoku Shirei!! Spy vs. Spy Yes - Pacnsacdave
Nekketsu Kouha - Kunio-kun Localised - Renegade
Outlanders No
Pocket Zaurus - Juu Ouken no Nazo Yes - DvD Translations
Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87 No
Romancia Yes - DvD Translations
Saint Seiya - Ougon Densetsu Yes - KingMike
Sanma no Mei Tantei No
Spelunker 2 - Yuusha e no Chousen Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Star Wars (Namco) Yes - Gil Galad
SWAT - Special Weapons and Tactics No
Taito Grand Prix - Eikou e no License Yes - MrRichard999
Takahashi Meijin no Bugutte Honey No
Tenka no Goikenban - Mito Koumon No
Tetsudou Ou - Famicom Boardgame Yes - MrRichard999, Proveaux, Jink640
Tokoro San no Mamoru mo Semeru mo No
Tsuppari Oozumou No
Uchuusen - Cosmo Carrier No
Valis - The Fantastic Soldier Yes - Satsu, Sliver X
Woody Poko Yes - Sqpat
Yamamura Misa Suspense - Kyouto Ryuu no Tera Satsujin Jiken No
Youkai Kurabu Yes - Stardust Crusaders
Zoids - Chuuou Tairiku no Tatakai No
Zombie Hunter Yes - KingMike

Well, there's a long and winding road to go here. ;) Given how little there is to finish in 1986, and nothing (practically) to finish in 1983-85, the amount of untranslated games in 1987 is a bit daunting. Some of these have already been mentioned in the thread, but I just wanted to leave this here for all to look at. If you know of any errors on my part, let me know of course. In case anyone's just joining in, I've only included games which came out on Famicom and either a) have no complete translation (official or unofficial), or b) have an official translation but the graphics were significantly changed to make it a localisation rather than a straight translation. Anything that was released outside Japan with no major changes doesn't make the list (a different title screen doesn't count).

There are some easy ones in there, though, such as ones that only need a new title screen. I might have a go at some of them. :D The more wordy ones will have to wait since I've got Time Stranger on my plate and don't fancy another big translation right now. Keep up the good work, everyone! :)

ps. I've noted Chester Field as being "(inc)", because Gideon didn't bother to change the Vic Tokai logo or the game's subtitle at the beginning. It may be 15 years old, but still... sounds like a job for me... :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 01, 2017, 06:53:19 pm
Thanks for all the work on this list and Dragon Quest!

Incidentally, I dumped the script for Outlanders a couple of nights ago and I've started translating it.

It's a little odd since it stores its script lines alphabetically, and uses some segments in multiple lines. It makes it a challenge to translate and probably to hack. It uses no punctuation, which is how it can get by with reusing some stuff.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on August 01, 2017, 08:41:22 pm
Aside from terrible patch for Stargazers (Hoshi wo Miruhito)...

I suppose it should be noted my Saint Seiya patch is based on the official French translation (as was the other group that did a second translation a few years after mine).

Both Bio Senshi Dan and Makaijima do have official localizations, though not officially released. ROMs have been released for both (Bashi Bazook and Makai Island)
(the official localization of Makaijima put the dialogue text on a separate screen since the JP text used sprites and as such would have been limited to an unusable 8 characters per line limit without some non-trivial hacking work)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on August 01, 2017, 10:38:49 pm
Aside from terrible patch for Stargazers (Hoshi wo Miruhito)...

Well, the patch starts out well. :) But the game itself becomes unplayable before long, sadly, given all the garbage/random text that rapidly takes over.

(Yes, I know it's a famous kusoge, but I was looking forward to checking it out when I played it for a couple hours a while back.)

Was it a technical roadblock that you encountered, or did you just move on to other things?

@Psyklax: I appreciate all the positive energy and hard work you bring to this! I'm guessing some of those baseball & other sports games might be low-hanging fruit, at least.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on August 02, 2017, 01:16:57 am
KingMike has just released the patch for Indora no Hikari, so that one's done - you can cross it off the list. ;)

Haja no Fuuin came out in English on SMS, so it's likely a similar situation to Mississipi Satsujin Jiken. Similarly, as Pluvius mentioned, Law of the West is also available in English. Also, is there any Japanese in Booby Kids? I don't remember this game well enough to be sure, but I believe there wasn't any... unless you count the bit on the title screen, which is just "Booby Kids" in Japanese.

Other than that, the list seems fine to me. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on August 02, 2017, 01:37:12 am
Supposedly the SMS version of Haja no Fuuin (Miracle Warriors) is a significantly enhanced port, so the scripts may not be similar.

Stargazers was missing translations of most of the battle text. But I think I should redo the script insertion as well. I did rewriting probably on WD's level with that one. I should still have the unaltered script around.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 02, 2017, 02:36:12 am
KingMike has just released the patch for Indora no Hikari, so that one's done - you can cross it off the list. ;)

Ha, I didn't notice that, just got added to the database a couple of days ago. :) I'll correct my list then.

Also, is there any Japanese in Booby Kids? I don't remember this game well enough to be sure, but I believe there wasn't any... unless you count the bit on the title screen, which is just "Booby Kids" in Japanese.

Good call on that: looking inside, there's a capital English alphabet and "Booby Kids" in Japanese. So, since a translation would literally be "colour those tiles black", it seems totally pointless. I'll remove it from the list.

Aside from terrible patch for Stargazers (Hoshi wo Miruhito)...

I only include complete translations in the list - or at least 99% complete. So maybe you can get back to this one at some point (though I can see you did it a long time ago).

I suppose it should be noted my Saint Seiya patch is based on the official French translation (as was the other group that did a second translation a few years after mine).

I noticed that you have to apply it over the French ROM. After looking at Dragon Warrior/Quest, I don't blame you. :D Hopefully the original French translation was good, although I suppose some multilingual person could compare all three versions (Japanese, French, your translation). :D

Both Bio Senshi Dan and Makaijima do have official localizations, though not officially released. ROMs have been released for both (Bashi Bazook and Makai Island)
(the official localization of Makaijima put the dialogue text on a separate screen since the JP text used sprites and as such would have been limited to an unusable 8 characters per line limit without some non-trivial hacking work)

Interesting couple of examples. Bashi Bazook's intro seems totally different to the original Japanese, whereas at least the fan translation is more faithful. No idea if it's much different in-game. Makai Island, on the other hand, is a bit more tricky. I noticed Pluvius recommending to play the prototype instead, despite the wobbly translation. Incidentally, while both the Japanese and the English prototype work fine in FCEUX, Snark's translation crashes. It works in BizHawk and Nestopia, which are more accurate of course.

Supposedly the SMS version of Haja no Fuuin (Miracle Warriors) is a significantly enhanced port, so the scripts may not be similar.

I just had a look, it does look a lot different, so not sure how easy it would be to adapt. Also it uses that damn Elizabethan English ("WHAT WILLST THOU DO?!").
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on August 03, 2017, 02:22:58 am
It seems that the main issue would not really be the number of games in itself, but rather the fact that 1987 is more or less when the RPG/text adventure blitz began. It's curious though that there aren't any untranslated strategy games in that year.

As far as the RPGs go, some of them seem alright, could be even fairly good (Artelius and, especially, Ginga no Sannin), and some are, well, SWAT and Hoshi wo Miru Hito. ;) Speaking of Ginga no Sannin, the PC-88 version seems quite different, not surprisingly. Perhaps the FC port was a remake of sorts.

There still aren't too many untranslated adventure games at least. I only ever played Sanma no Meitantei, and it seemed alright, although not really groundbreaking in any way. Adventure games seemingly begin to crop up around 1988 more or less.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 05, 2017, 04:18:42 am
Ooh, Ginga no Sannin? I've never played it, but it's had my interest for a while. It's got a Yellow Magic Orchestra song in it. :D

You know, now that I've got the text sorted out, I might as well do several patches, one for each translation. That way everyone's happy! :D

As for the title screen, I don't think it'll be difficult at all, I just need time to look into it, because I'm a bit busy with life right now.

Well, as I said, I'm happy with just a title screen hack...However, I'm sure plenty of people would appreciate a version with the mobile version's translation. So if you'd like, I could try to prepare a script for you. I couldn't find one online, so I'd have to play thru it and write it all down...but it'd be a good excuse to play thru a Dragon Quest game. If you would like me to, just let me know how you would like the scrip (format, file type, etc).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 05, 2017, 07:02:12 pm
I'd have to play thru it and write it all down...

That sounds a bit much to me... :D I don't know how this mobile version works, but if it's possible to get the binary data and look through it for text, that would save a lot of time. Also would mean no errors. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. ;) (by the way, the guy who wrote the translation on GameFAQs still hasn't emailed me back about using his script)

Anyway, I think I want to do a little update because things are getting a bit busy for me (and I hope people are still reading - things seem a bit quiet on RHDN in the last week...).

So, as you know, I started work on Time Stranger, but my translation work has stopped. I've been busy with other things, and frankly translation, especially all-kana translation, can be a tiresome job for me. Although I got into ROM hacking through my interest in the Japanese language, since I've started assembly hacking I've realised that I enjoy the hacking process more than the translation. :) I'm going to talk about it in my other thread in the Script Help forum.

I also got started on Space Hunter, despite the fact that KingMike said he made progress on it at some point. I've hit a bit of a block with the way the game does text: it does it in pieces, mixing and matching them, so getting the grammar to work in English will be a challenge, not to mention that the lines are rather terse in Japanese and there's very little space to work with.

Then there's Dragon Quest, the main step being to import the Japanese title into the US version. The actual dialogue stuff shouldn't be that much of a pain (and to be honest, this is not really in the spirit of this project).

For full disclosure, I was approached by someone about Sindibad - Chitei no Daimakyuu for the PC Engine - not to translate, but to insert a translation that he could make. I had a look and it looks quite straightforward, so I'll probably have a go at that. Since I'm only inserting a translation into a game with a convenient text routine, I don't think it will distract me too much from this project.

So, anything else? Actually, yes. :D Given the state of the other things I've been looking at, I thought I'd check out some of the 'low-hanging fruit' of 1987, specifically the three games that are under 64KB.

Ikinari Musician is a weird thing. You play music, and that's about it. The only Japanese is the title, which means Spontaneous Musician in English. My question is just to ask, what should I call it when I change the title: Spontaneous Musician or Ikinari Musician? I can't decide, so I want to ask you guys.

Tokoro San no Mamoru mo Semeru mo is a platform game starring a guy who goes by the stage name George Tokoro, famous in Japan. Only Japanese here is on the title screen, the ending, and the game over screen, which amusingly parodies a famous song called Love Is Over (the Japanese Wikipedia page is surprisingly in-depth on this game). I guess this one won't be too much trouble.

Finally, Tsuppari Oozumou is a sumo game. So, lots of 16x16 text, written VERTICALLY. Just what the doctor ordered... but most of the text appears to be kanji for the names of the wrestlers, stored in a funky way in the ROM so they can have double the amount by using one colour. How I can look at it correctly in Tile Molester, I don't know.

So, that's the state of things at the moment. A bit more confusing than when I started with the simple games. I'll keep on going - though maybe not as prolific as I have been up to now. ;)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pennywise on August 05, 2017, 07:27:54 pm
Tsuppari Oozumou is a tough one. It's been on my backlog of games I wanted to do, but haven't had the time for it other than ask for a title screen design. I had decided on the title "Sumo Clash" for the series.

Anyhow, it's one of those 32kb PRG-ROM games like SMB. Meaning you can't expand the ROM and bankswap and you have to work with the space available. Then there's the 16x16 kanji names for all sumo wrestlers that also happened to be displayed vertically. I was thinking of converting that one screen where the screen scrolls horizontally to instead scroll vertically, so the names could be written horizontally. But that's a lot of work.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 05, 2017, 10:20:13 pm
That sounds a bit much to me... :D

Ditto.

So, as you know, I started work on Time Stranger, but my translation work has stopped. I've been busy with other things, and frankly translation, especially all-kana translation, can be a tiresome job for me.

I wanted to let you know that I was prepared to review your translation work, but since you posted the blocks raw I'm assuming you are more interested in finding a translator to tackle the script in your stead? I haven't taken a close look at this yet since I'm working on other things.

My question is just to ask, what should I call it when I change the title: Spontaneous Musician or Ikinari Musician? I can't decide, so I want to ask you guys.

I think Spontaneous Musician sounds good.

Since I'm interested in supporting this 1987 effort, I'd also like to make an update.

So far I've dumped scripts for:
Outlanders (script translated)
Uchuusen Cosmo Carrier
Mezase Pachi Pro - Pachio-kun
EDIT: SWAT
EDIT2: and, Kyonshiizu 2 (script translated)

As I'm currently translating Maison Ikkoku and Power Dolls 3, ostensibly with hacking support waiting on me, I'm prioritizing finishing those scripts before working on anything else.

It is my intention to take a stab at translating the scripts I listed, as well as looking into dumping others from 1987. As I said, I'm okay with smaller scripts currently and willing to prioritize these over some of the other Famicom scripts I have such as Idol Hakkenden, and Chibi Maruko-chan.

I spoke with KingMike recently and I assume he's okay with me sharing that it sounds like he has a translated script for Ginga no Sannin. There's also a FAQ on GameFAQs (https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/578526-ginga-no-sannin/faqs/69200) with a lot of translated story and menu text though I have no idea how accurate it is. I started making a table file for the game but I stopped when I realized how huge the dictionary is for it.

Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 06, 2017, 03:29:35 am
That sounds a bit much to me... :D I don't know how this mobile version works, but if it's possible to get the binary data and look through it for text, that would save a lot of time. Also would mean no errors. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. ;) (by the way, the guy who wrote the translation on GameFAQs still hasn't emailed me back about using his script)
That sounds like it'd be helpful, but I don't have a clue how to do that. ;p
I'm currently playing thru in original Japanese, original English, and mobile English, while watching Let's Plays of the Japanese mobile version. I think I'll use cheatcodes to help with the Famicom/NES versions. It WOULD be nice if I had a dump of all four scripts...but I can probably manage without. Beside, I don't know if the Famicom/NES script dump would even match up well enuf with the mobile version's to easily see them side by side. It's important that I compare the two versions of the Japanese script to check for changes, so that I can undo them from the mobile translation. Since you're quite busy, I should probably just work on it in the meantime, so it'll be ready when you are.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 06, 2017, 03:47:51 am
I wanted to let you know that I was prepared to review your translation work, but since you posted the blocks raw I'm assuming you are more interested in finding a translator to tackle the script in your stead? I haven't taken a close look at this yet since I'm working on other things.

I wouldn't say I'm actively looking for a translator, it's just that with this particular game, the text seems a bit harder for me, and I know it'll take me ages (while also trying to hack other games). I posted it all there just in case anyone needed to know more and I didn't have to waste new posts in the thread explaining context and whatnot. And of course, if anyone REALLY wants to tackle the whole thing, they're welcome to do so.

With the crazy heat at the moment, plus some stuff in real life distracting me, it's just getting harder to sit down and hack at the moment. But I carry on. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 06, 2017, 04:35:31 am
With the crazy heat at the moment, plus some stuff in real life distracting me, it's just getting harder to sit down and hack at the moment. But I carry on. :)

Excuses, excuses. ;)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 06, 2017, 06:29:41 am
Excuses, excuses. ;)

Hey, it's very hot, and I have a young child to look after. I'm sticking with my excuses. :)

Anyway, since I've got your attention, perhaps I can run a couple of things by you, namely Tokoro San no Mamoru mo Semeru mo. There's so little text in the game I might as well mention it here. ;)

First is the title. I suggest George Tokoro's Attack and Defense. Got any better ideas?

Second is the game over screen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7jl1HZjxkw
Based on this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be_YZiQm3Yk
Which someone tried translating here:
http://stage48.net/studio48/loveisover.html

But I'm not sure about the translation: rather than "I want it to end, but can't cut off my feelings", it looks more like "we should end it now or it never will"? I think the translator took "kiri" to mean "cut off", which doesn't sound right.

Third is the ending:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7S20YKm9ow
(this guy thinks there must be a 'good' ending, but having looked at the CHR-ROM I very much doubt that)

My best guess is "Tokoro might continue" or something like that. Any better ideas?

And that's all there is. Incidentally, the game does something interesting for the game over screen that I haven't seen a Famicom game do thus far: the text is actually stored in CHR-ROM and the game says "take those bytes and store them in RAM", then it loads the text from RAM. I've never seen a game use CHR-ROM for text before, but it's something I think I can take advantage of in Time Stranger (there's a huge amount of empty space in CHR-ROM because the game's mapper loads half in the sprite bank and half in the background bank, meaning half the sprite bank isn't used).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 06, 2017, 12:41:31 pm
I think you've got it.

First is the title. I suggest George Tokoro's Attack and Defense. Got any better ideas?

I assume this is based on George Tokoro? I might go for either:
George Tokoro's Attack and Defend
or George Tokoro's Offense and Defense
just for consistency.
EDIT: You could of course do "Mr. Tokoro's" for brevity.

But I'm not sure about the translation: rather than "I want it to end, but can't cut off my feelings", it looks more like "we should end it now or it never will"? I think the translator took "kiri" to mean "cut off", which doesn't sound right.

Yeah, that translation is off. "kiriganai" it "endless" or "boundless". Literally "there is no limit". However, I think your idea that it's related to the previous line is correct. "Let's end this, since it's endless (it will never end)."

My best guess is "Tokoro might continue" or something like that. Any better ideas?

Tokoro is...
To be continued... Maybe...?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 06, 2017, 01:51:46 pm
I assume this is based on George Tokoro? I might go for either:
George Tokoro's Attack and Defend
or George Tokoro's Offense and Defense
just for consistency.
EDIT: You could of course do "Mr. Tokoro's" for brevity.

If you search for 'tokoro-san' on the net, his face appears. And the Japanese Wikipedia makes it clear that it's him. In the UK attack and defence is a logical option, but I take your point and will probably use the more American option since it's slightly less confusing. Also, on the title screen, brevity isn't really necessary.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 06, 2017, 04:43:06 pm
In the UK attack and defence is a logical option, but I take your point and will probably use the more American option since it's slightly less confusing.

We are two peoples, divided by a common language. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on August 06, 2017, 10:10:05 pm
I only heard of Outlanders after a new person started a patch on it a few years ago (and I bought a pretty beat-up CIB for scanning purposes). But I haven't heard of it.

On Tsuppai Oozumo... if you wanted to make it feel like a localization, I'd probably give a pretty to-the-point title and call it something like Tecmo Sumo Fighting, like they did with the rest of their sports line.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 07, 2017, 04:27:45 am
If you search for 'tokoro-san' on the net, his face appears. And the Japanese Wikipedia makes it clear that it's him. In the UK attack and defence is a logical option, but I take your point and will probably use the more American option since it's slightly less confusing. Also, on the title screen, brevity isn't really necessary.

Brevity aside, isn't it just 所さんのまもるもせめるも? Are you perhaps adding in the full name so people can look him up if they don't know who he is? Also, I might as well add in my own name suggestion. Defend and Destroy (cuz alliterations are fun).
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on August 07, 2017, 07:21:51 am
I only heard of Outlanders after a new person started a patch on it a few years ago (and I bought a pretty beat-up CIB for scanning purposes). But I haven't heard of it.

Pikachumanson dropped it I believe, MrRichard999 has some of his old files. If anyone wants to have a stab at hacking it, these files could potentially help somewhat perhaps. It seems that there was no active translator on that project, that's why it was never finished.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 10, 2017, 11:44:39 am
I think it's about time for an UPDATE! :D

(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/tokorosan.png)

Yes, I've finished Tokoro-san's game. It was probably more trouble than it's worth! :) But that's my first of 1987 out of the way. You might've noticed I'm a quantity over quality kind of guy. :D

You can pick up the patch over at my site, or just wait until it appears in the RHDN database. Or just not bother, cause it's hard as balls.



Are you perhaps adding in the full name so people can look him up if they don't know who he is?

Yes. ;)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 10, 2017, 11:59:08 am
Awesome! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on August 11, 2017, 03:32:20 am
I've finished up my analysis of 1987 games.  That should be it for a little while, since there's plenty to do there.  Work has kept me from getting back to The Black Bass, but I should be on it again shortly.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 11, 2017, 04:40:31 am
What the hell, I might as well do ANOTHER update, less than 24 hours after the last one. :)

(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/ikinari.png)

Yep, I started and finished Ikinari Musician (or Spontaneous Musician) in the space of an hour or so last night. Just a new title screen and changing Kanon to Canon. Sooo much easier than Tokoro-san. :D It's actually a fun way to kill time: it's not a game, rather a music player, and when you choose a backing track, you can only play notes in the same scale, so it's always in tune. Great for people who aren't very musical. ;)

So, time for something new! Looking for more easy options in 1987, I spotted Takahashi Meijin no Bugutte Honey, which has a Japanese title screen and nothing else - even the in-game messages giving you information are in English. It's based on this anime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ZkK3021K4
And I have no idea how to translate that title. Bug'tte? Bugutte? Something else? Wikipedia claims the anime is known in English as Honey Bee in Toycomland, but a Google search turns up nothing. Furthermore, I figured it'd be good to make two patches: one that is more literal and another which is more of a localisation, connecting it to the Adventure Island series.

Next on my radar is Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87, which is rather interesting. I didn't know, but some of you may do, but Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium was released in the US by Tengen (Atari) as R.B.I. Baseball. PYFS87 is essentially identical to the original, except there are two more teams (looking inside the ROM, there may actually be three more). Although they look identical on the surface, things have been shifted around under the hood. I'm left with a confusing situation: do I basically make this R.B.I. Baseball '87, or do I translate it properly, with the Japanese teams and players? The complicating factor about this is that R.B.I. Baseball has been hacked to high heaven by dedicated players - it's probably still being hacked now with updated rosters. So, what's the point of translating this, then? I've no idea if they fixed any bugs or whatnot. What do you guys think? Should I translate it just to tick it off the list? :D

I've finished up my analysis of 1987 games.  That should be it for a little while, since there's plenty to do there.  Work has kept me from getting back to The Black Bass, but I should be on it again shortly.

Great to hear! :)

EDIT: my hunch was right. I found tecmobowl.org which has R.B.I. Baseball 2017 (not as an IPS though, naughty), which has clearly had a bit of hacking because it has all thirty teams rather than the original ten. Again, it's hard to see the purpose of translating PYFS87, since if anyone wants to play, they'd be better off playing that hack. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on August 11, 2017, 05:56:56 am
It's pretty hard to find any substantial info on that Bugutte Honey game/show, but it would seem that it was indeed localized as Honey Bee in Toycomland, since that show name translation is present on literally every major anime-related site (and not only the English ones). So, I guess that's what I'd go with.

Speaking of smaller games, maybe sth like Uchuusen Cosmo Carrier would end up being more interesting, considering that Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87 has been hacked many times already; it's a bit similar situation to that with Booby Kids in a way. You may want to do that mostly as a side project, but other than that, it doesn't seem all that interesting perhaps. If you want to work on it, I'd do the original rosters, mostly to preserve it, but then again, it's all up to you. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 11, 2017, 06:29:47 am
Speaking of smaller games, maybe sth like Uchuusen Cosmo Carrier would end up being more interesting, considering that Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87 has been hacked many times already; it's a bit similar situation to that with Booby Kids in a way. You may want to do that mostly as a side project, but other than that, it doesn't seem all that interesting perhaps. If you want to work on it, I'd do the original rosters, mostly to preserve it, but then again, it's all up to you. :)

I've removed Booby Kids from the list, as a translation would literally be removing the katakana from the title screen by painting it black. PYFS87 is different, and I actually think it's totally redundant. There is really no point in playing it now, unless you really want Japanese players from 1987 in your R.B.I. Baseball. The new hacks of that game are clearly superior to this.

I'm gonna have a look through some other games to see which ones I can pick off easily. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: EarthPainting on August 12, 2017, 11:03:31 am
So, time for something new! Looking for more easy options in 1987, I spotted Takahashi Meijin no Bugutte Honey, which has a Japanese title screen and nothing else - even the in-game messages giving you information are in English. It's based on this anime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ZkK3021K4
And I have no idea how to translate that title. Bug'tte? Bugutte? Something else? Wikipedia claims the anime is known in English as Honey Bee in Toycomland, but a Google search turns up nothing. Furthermore, I figured it'd be good to make two patches: one that is more literal and another which is more of a localisation, connecting it to the Adventure Island series.
Localising 'Takahashi Meijin no Bug-tte Honey' into "Honey Bee in Toycomland" seems fine. That's also what other sources seem to use for the show too:
https://myanimelist.net/anime/10210/Bug_tte_Honey
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 13, 2017, 07:11:23 am
So, time for something new! Looking for more easy options in 1987, I spotted Takahashi Meijin no Bugutte Honey, which has a Japanese title screen and nothing else - even the in-game messages giving you information are in English. It's based on this anime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ZkK3021K4
And I have no idea how to translate that title. Bug'tte? Bugutte? Something else? Wikipedia claims the anime is known in English as Honey Bee in Toycomland, but a Google search turns up nothing. Furthermore, I figured it'd be good to make two patches: one that is more literal and another which is more of a localisation, connecting it to the Adventure Island series.

For a localized name, changing Takahashi Meijin no to Hudson's, and Honey to Honey Girl would make it fit in with Adventure Island's localization. Bugって is a bit tricky, tho... Maybe writing it in quotation marks would work? For example: Hudson's "Bug" Honey Girl. Or maybe ignore it altogether and come up with something that works better in English like: Hudson's Bugette Honey Girl. Or just remove the Bug part?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 13, 2017, 07:15:43 am
Localising 'Takahashi Meijin no Bug-tte Honey' into "Honey Bee in Toycomland" seems fine. That's also what other sources seem to use for the show too:
https://myanimelist.net/anime/10210/Bug_tte_Honey

Perhaps a combination - Honey Bee on Adventure Island, maybe? :)

Anyway, I have another update! They're coming thick and fast these days, I know.

First, Dragon Warrior/Quest. It was a request rather than by my own volition, but I have tried to get the logo from the Japanese version into the US version. It's been surprisingly difficult, due to the different way the US version's title works.

First problem is the background, which is black in the US but a dark blue in Japan. There's an instruction in the ROM to set the background colour, which is constantly referred to by the game, but changing it here changes it throughout the whole game. Playing the game with a blue background is certainly not right, but making it ONLY be blue on the title screen will require extra work.

Second problem is the dragon who pokes his head out of the logo. In the US version they cut off four tiles from his neck, but the routine to add sprites has empty space right next to it, so it would be a piece of cake to add instructions for four more sprites. The reason I can't do it? The sprite bank is full! :( There's just no room for four more tiles, they really packed everything in. There may be four tiles free on the background bank, but unless I'm using 8x16 sprites (which I'm not) I can't access them.

I can think of only two ways of solving the second problem. One, which I don't think is even possible, is to have the four tiles in another bank, load them into RAM, then force them into the PPU RAM. I don't think the CPU can even do that, and I could be wrong but I figured that $0000 to $1FFF was read only anyway. Second option is to make four new BG tiles which mix the original background and the sprite, and stick them on screen. That's at least possible, but seems like more work than necessary just for a little bit more dragon neck.

Unless anyone's got any bright ideas, this title screen isn't going to look perfect. :(

Meanwhile, I've done a more successful title screen: that of Magnum Kiki Ippatsu - Empire City - 1931. Released in the arcades as simply Empire City: 1931, the Famicom release never made it to the States. No idea why, though, because a) it's in English apart from the title screen, b) is set in the US. But hey, now it's done, and I think it looks quite smart:
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/empire1931.png)
It's a copy-paste job from the arcade game, in case you're interested.

So what next? I've had a look at Family Trainer 5 - Meiro Daisakusen, and first I should say thank you to Pluvius for his research into many of these games: I neglected to look at it when I was doing a couple of them, but the information is very helpful. :) So, FT5. It looks pretty straightforward, actually. My only concern is how to actually PLAY the game! It uses the Power Pad, with 16 buttons, and I think you have to tap two (like you're running) and different buttons make you run on different parts of the screen. It's very confusing, though. Might need to find some instructions. :D

What else? Hmm, not sure. I've put Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87 onto a pile labelled "only do when I have nothing else to do". :D Oh wait, now I remember: I started looking at the Famicom Disk System! :)

So as you probably know, it came out in 1986, a year that we've almost completed in terms of cartridge games, and I've made a list of games for that year. This list is different to my regular list: in that one, I removed games if they were released outside Japan in more or less the same way, or didn't need translation. In this list, due to there being fewer games and being disks rather than cartridges, I've included all of them, though some will say "N/A" when there's no Japanese in them. I used the information from famicomworld.com, and the names from TOSEC (No-Intro doesn't have everything, and GoodTools doesn't exist).

Code: [Select]
Name (TOSEC) Translated?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1986
Adian no Tsue No
Akumajou Dracula Localised - Castlevania
All Night Nippon Super Mario Bros. No
Baseball Localised
Breeder No
Dead Zone No
Deep Dungeon Yes - KingMike
Electrician No
Family Computer Othello Localised
Gall Force - Eternal Story Yes - Gil Galad
Ginga Denshou - Galaxy Odyssey Yes - Chris M. Covell
Golf Localised
Hikari Shinwa - Palutena no Kagami No
I am a Teacher - Super Mario Seta No
I am a Teacher - Teami no Kiso No
Igo No
Kieta Princess No
Knight Lore No
Koneko Monogatari - The Adventures of Chatran No
Mahjong Yes - Psyklax
Metroid Yes - AlanMidas & Localised
Moero TwinBee - Cinnamon Hakase wo Sukue! No
Monitor Puzzle, The - Kineko - Kinetic Connection No
Namida no Soukoban Special Yes - KingMike
Nazo no Kabe - Block Kuzushi No
Nazo no Murasamejou Yes - Spinner 8
Professional Mahjong Gokuu No
Puroresu - Famicom Wrestling Association Localised - Pro Wrestling
Soccer Localised
Suishou no Ryuu Yes - Mute
Super Mario Bros. Localised
Super Mario Bros. 2 N/A
Tennis Localised
Volleyball Localised
Zanac N/A
Zelda no Densetsu - The Hyrule Fantasy Yes - Jordiway73 & Localised - Legend of Zelda, The

Regarding the hacking of these games, there's a lot of confusion out there about versions, and the reality is that CRCs are completely unreliable for this system. I studied the headers in FDS files - not the pointless emulator ones, but the ones on the original disks - and there are two reasons you could get two virtually identical files with different CRCs.

First, the date of production is included in the header. I saw Zelda in the TOSEC set and the No-Intro set had different production dates, but were otherwise identical. Thus, a patch for Zelda will work for either. The production date is obviously because disks are produced blank then written to, unlike ROMs which come out of the factory on chips.

Second, and most notoriously, save games. It seems like the ability to save was such a novel feature that almost every game I tried had it. Naturally, this means you can get two identical games which have different save games on them, or occasionally they're blank (but that seems rare). Thankfully with FDS Explorer you can look at the files on the disk - another difference with disks, having files rather than just big blocks of data on ROM - and find the last one which has save data, then figure out a way to render it blank.

I think that anyone making translations and hacks for FDS games really should include the save game blanking in their patch, so that anyone patching the game will have a nice clean disk. Sometimes it's easier said than done, but there's a forum post on nesdev.com called "Purifying FDS Disk Dumps" that goes through some of the more notable games. I'm sure it's possible to figure it out though.

Incidentally, I noticed that Mahjong was released on opening day, along with a bunch of other games previously already available on Famicom cartridge, so I decided to port my translation over. :D It was very easy, since the ROM version and the disk version are almost identical, with some minor byte differences here and there. I just compared the three (disk, ROM, my translation) and pasted in what was necessary, and ta da! I don't know if anyone REALLY wants a patch for Mahjong on FDS, given that they can just play the ROM version (if they want to play at all), but it was a fun experiment. :)

Phew, this post is way too long, but I had a lot to talk about. :D Any thoughts about the list? Or thoughts about anything else?

EDIT: and no sooner have I posted the list that I've noticed something. :D Moero TwinBee - Cinnamon Hakase wo Sukue! was eventually re-released on cartridge in 1993, and that version was translated by MrRichard999. The game was ALSO released in 1987 in the US as Stinger. So, FDS, then US cut-down version, then Famicom ROM, then English translation. I guess I should tick it off the list, unless there are real differences between the FDS and ROM versions.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on August 13, 2017, 07:56:28 am
Hikari Shinwa - Palutena no Kagami - that's basically Kid Icarus with a fancier name. :) So, it's available on cartridge; I guess I'd only do this one if there were any significant differences between the versions, which I don't think is the case.

Aidan no Tsue is an odd one. I recall trying it out a couple of years back. You need to solve math problems to get through some sections, and it's pretty much just Zelda-like dungeons over and over again. It probably has the most Japanese to translate, except for...

...Dead Zone - this one is an adventure game, by Sunsoft if memory serves. I believe Stardust Crusaders are working on it, so you don't need to bother most likely. :)



Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on August 13, 2017, 12:27:06 pm
Also, the 3DS eShop port of Kid Icarus was based on the FDS version. I noticed that as soon as I booted it up and heard the unmistakable sound of the FDS FM synth title music. :)

Moero Twinbee was localized as Stinger. I remember the third player option was removed from the localization but I can't recall if the one screen of dialogue in the opening in the Famicom cart re-release was in the FDS original or not.

Nazo no Kabe got a PAL-only localization called Crackout.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 13, 2017, 12:54:44 pm
Moero Twinbee was localized as Stinger. I remember the third player option was removed from the localization but I can't recall if the one screen of dialogue in the opening in the Famicom cart re-release was in the FDS original or not.

I mentioned this in the edit at the bottom of my post. I just did a side-by-side comparison and the FDS and ROM versions are identical except the ROM version adds a difficulty setting.

Nazo no Kabe got a PAL-only localization called Crackout.

I just checked, you're absolutely right. :) The ROM version replaces saves with passwords, but for a puzzle game I think passwords are much better. I'll amend the list.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pluvius on August 13, 2017, 09:12:54 pm
Electrician was translated by KingMike.  Koneko Monogatari and The Monitor Puzzle don't need translations outside of the title screens and some other minor things.

I should be done with The Black Bass pretty soon.  I just need to make some tweaks and playtest it.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 13, 2017, 10:24:42 pm
I should be done with The Black Bass pretty soon.  I just need to make some tweaks and playtest it.

Awesome!

I'm still focusing on Maison Ikkoku and Power Dolls 3, BUT! I'm just about done translating Kyonshiizu 2. I'm going on vacation the day after tomorrow and I won't be done before then, but once I get back I'll probably post some stuff in the script help section and the script should be done.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: GarrettCRW on August 14, 2017, 04:44:10 pm
Next on my radar is Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium '87, which is rather interesting. I didn't know, but some of you may do, but Pro Yakyuu - Family Stadium was released in the US by Tengen (Atari) as R.B.I. Baseball. PYFS87 is essentially identical to the original, except there are two more teams (looking inside the ROM, there may actually be three more). Although they look identical on the surface, things have been shifted around under the hood. I'm left with a confusing situation: do I basically make this R.B.I. Baseball '87, or do I translate it properly, with the Japanese teams and players? The complicating factor about this is that R.B.I. Baseball has been hacked to high heaven by dedicated players - it's probably still being hacked now with updated rosters. So, what's the point of translating this, then? I've no idea if they fixed any bugs or whatnot. What do you guys think? Should I translate it just to tick it off the list? :D

[snip]

EDIT: my hunch was right. I found tecmobowl.org which has R.B.I. Baseball 2017 (not as an IPS though, naughty), which has clearly had a bit of hacking because it has all thirty teams rather than the original ten. Again, it's hard to see the purpose of translating PYFS87, since if anyone wants to play, they'd be better off playing that hack. Thoughts?

It's my understanding the the Family Stadium games at least nominally mimic the NPB rosters for each year. (The colors and team names certainly correspond to the Central League teams that existed back then, at least.) So for that reason, I'd personally prefer that the games (especially the later ones that add bells and whistles that Tengen never put into their RBI sequels) be translated.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 17, 2017, 02:47:39 am
Electrician was translated by KingMike.  Koneko Monogatari and The Monitor Puzzle don't need translations outside of the title screens and some other minor things.

I should be done with The Black Bass pretty soon.  I just need to make some tweaks and playtest it.

Damn, how did I miss Electrician? Thanks for the heads up, I've amended my list. I'll take a look at those two games also, if they just need a few minor changes. I like quick and dirty translations. :D

And good to hear about The Black Bass. Though, if I'm 100% honest, fishing games have never excited me... though maybe this one will change that. ;)

Also, quick note: I'm going away for a week, so no hacking from me in that time. I've also started another thread about the Master System, so I'm kind of dividing my attention in two ways at the moment. I haven't given up on the Famicom though - just yesterday I did a bit more translation of Time Stranger. God knows how long that game will take me to translate, but hopefully I'll get it done eventually! You may have noticed I'm a much quicker hacker than translator... :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on August 17, 2017, 12:20:46 pm
I'd guess All Night Nippon probably doesn't need any translation aside from the title screen as well?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 17, 2017, 01:16:12 pm
I'd guess All Night Nippon probably doesn't need any translation aside from the title screen as well?

As far as I can tell, yep. Doubt there's anything else in there given it's based on SMB.

This wiki is pretty comprehensive on the differences: I thought it was just a sprite hack!
https://www.mariowiki.com/All_Night_Nippon_Super_Mario_Bros.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: moritasan2040 on August 20, 2017, 05:52:48 am
Hikari Shinwa - Palutena no Kagami - that's basically Kid Icarus with a fancier name. :) So, it's available on cartridge; I guess I'd only do this one if there were any significant differences between the versions, which I don't think is the case.

The music and sound effects are difference thanks to the extra sound channel, and there's saving instead of a password system. I don't remember any text, tho, aside from the title screen and the file select screen.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on August 26, 2017, 05:39:15 pm
I think it's awesome that you guys are working to translate all of these games! I finally have some free time, so I can help with translating "Time Stranger" and "Outlanders" if nobody minds.  :D
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 27, 2017, 02:06:11 am
I think it's awesome that you guys are working to translate all of these games! I finally have some free time, so I can help with translating "Time Stranger" and "Outlanders" if nobody minds.  :D

I certainly don't mind. :D If you head over to my thread in the Script Help forum, you'll find the dump of the entire script for Time Stranger:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=24643.0

I think I'll post what I've already translated, in case you or anyone else is interested in checking my work, and any help is welcome, of course.

EDIT: I see you already posted in the thread before, so you're aware of it. I'll say no more then. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 27, 2017, 03:06:05 am
I think it's awesome that you guys are working to translate all of these games! I finally have some free time, so I can help with translating "Time Stranger" and "Outlanders" if nobody minds.  :D

Please do! Here are the two blocks of Outlanders that I dumped with the work I've done so far.

Script01.txt (http://mattsmessyroom.com/uploads/outlanders/script01.txt)
Script02.txt (http://mattsmessyroom.com/uploads/outlanders/script02.txt)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: FlashPV on August 28, 2017, 03:56:07 am
For a localized name, changing Takahashi Meijin no to Hudson's, and Honey to Honey Girl would make it fit in with Adventure Island's localization. Bugって is a bit tricky, tho... Maybe writing it in quotation marks would work? For example: Hudson's "Bug" Honey Girl. Or maybe ignore it altogether and come up with something that works better in English like: Hudson's Bugette Honey Girl. Or just remove the Bug part?
I'll try to make a title screen for this one. I think it will be "Hudson's Bug Honey on Adventure Island".
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on August 30, 2017, 10:34:20 pm
FYI: I've posted the translated script for Hello Dracula 2 (a.k.a Kyonshiizu 2) for the Famicom. I made a request in "Help Wanted" for script insertion, but I've also licensed the English language translation for copy, redistribution, remix, transformation and to be built upon as long as the work is attributed and NON-COMMERCIAL.

Get the script here: Hello Dracula 2 (a.k.a Kyonshiizu 2) Script Package (http://mattsmessyroom.com/uploads/kyonshiizu_2_package.7z)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Ryan914 on August 31, 2017, 10:45:18 am
What about Famicom Mahjong
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_dC7xmBQ3E)

There are so many Famicom Mahjong games it would make your head spin.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on August 31, 2017, 11:37:46 am
What about Famicom Mahjong
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_dC7xmBQ3E)

There are so many Famicom Mahjong games it would make your head spin.

I translated it. It's in the database.

Please check the whole thread (and the database) before posting. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: FlashPV on September 05, 2017, 03:44:07 pm
Here it is. What do you think?
(https://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/496425TakahashiMeijinnoBugutteHoney.png) (https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=496425TakahashiMeijinnoBugutteHoney.png)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 05, 2017, 04:57:42 pm
Here it is. What do you think?

Fantastic! ;D

Wait, did you already hack this into the game? Or did you just draw it? Because drawing a pic and fitting it into the ROM are two different things.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: FlashPV on September 06, 2017, 02:07:26 am
Don't worry, I've already made  several title screens so I'm aware of that. It's inserted and working.  8)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Vaccy on September 08, 2017, 10:36:35 am
I started working on Outlanders a few years ago, and pikachumanson took over after I ghosted. But I wanted to at least offer any help that I could. I met a guy at Otakon selling old school resin kits including Outlanders, and turns out he's a huge diehard fan, collects cels from it and all that. I believe he even talks to the author of the manga on occasion. 

So if it helps to have someone read over the script who knows the source material in depth, I can certainly ask if he's available to do just that.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 11, 2017, 06:41:18 pm
Long time no action, so it's about time for an UPDATE! ;)

Real life has put almost everything on hold, but I've managed to claw my way towards a first release of Time Stranger.

(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-timestranger4.png)(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/wip-timestranger5.png)

There's a long way to go until it's done, but I've reached the 10% mark, meaning I'm happy to give you guys version 0.1. It's the same system I used with my Conan translation way back: once I've got another 10% done, I release another version, because why not? Allow me to explain the game.

You're a timecop of sorts, trying to change history by talking to historical Japanese figures by saying "yes" or "no" to their questions. The only other interaction is making sure your ship picks you up during certain scenes (though I haven't translated any of those yet, so don't worry). Depending on your responses, there are five timelines: the history as it actually happened in the history books (called True Timeline by me), as well as timelines dominated by money, power, love and food, respectively. So, if you answer in ways that promote food production, you follow the food timeline, for example.

You start in Honnoji temple in 1582 with famed Japanese warlord Oda Nobunaga, as the temple is about to be attacked by his general Akechi Mitsuhide. Your responses to his questions dictate in which timeline you will set historical events. During the course of the game, you can switch timelines, be sent back in time, or get a game over somehow (such as being killed). During the game you can press B to randomly warp, but you never know where you'll end up so it's probably best avoided.

So far all that is done is the whole first section with Nobunaga at Honnoji, plus the first branch points for True, Love and Food timelines. As I translate the game, you'll be able to continue onwards.

If you can follow a visual guide and can read a little Japanese, this guide will help you out:
http://www.geocities.jp/tokitabi_mimamoru/gif/guide-gif.html
Of course, if you knew Japanese, you probably wouldn't need my translation. :D

Anyway, enough talk, here's v0.1!
http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/timestranger-v0.1.zip

Obviously, everything is preliminary at this stage, including the font. I'm tired of using Final Fantasy's font in all my translations, so one day I think I'll probably sit down and draw my own. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 19, 2017, 06:40:53 am
Seriously, not one post commenting on v0.1 of Time Stranger? Hmm. :-\

Anyway, I had a spare hour or so today, so I decided to change the title screen of All Night Nippon Super Mario Bros.
(http://s346165667.websitehome.co.uk/psyktrans/annsmb.png)
Quite a simple job, really. And of course there's no other Japanese text that I know of (the ending is the same as SMB2j I believe, so in English). My only concern is that each time you complete World 8-4, it adds a flashing star on the title screen, which is then saved on the disk. Now, because of me using two lines, the star appears on the next line, and doesn't flash. This could be seen as a problem, but unless you complete the game twenty times or something, I don't think it's that big of a deal. :)

Haven't added it to my site or the database yet, might do soon, if it's worth it.

EDIT: just read online that you need to complete the game eight times to access Worlds A to D. I changed the save file to 8 and it does exactly that. The eight stars still fit on the title, they just don't flash, and I don't think I can change that, because that palette needs to be shared with the letters of the title, meaning that would flash too.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on September 19, 2017, 07:47:50 pm
I'd meant to say congrats on the 0.1 of Time Stranger! I hope my comments in the script forum are helpful. It seems like activity has dropped off sharply here. Did everyone go back to school or something? :P
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 20, 2017, 01:22:44 am
I'd meant to say congrats on the 0.1 of Time Stranger! I hope my comments in the script forum are helpful. It seems like activity has dropped off sharply here. Did everyone go back to school or something? :P

Yes, your comments on Time Stranger were helpful, thanks. :) I just haven't been back there since then.

Seems funny to me that people hacking old NES games could have school to go to. :) I'm certainly very busy in real life, but it's got nothing to do with school.

Actually, I was browsing the FDS list last night and noticed Knight Lore (a Rare game originally on ZX Spectrum) only seems to have Japanese menus, so I think I'll have that done soon.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: cccmar on September 20, 2017, 04:39:41 am
Well, someone's doing that Dandy action RPG for the FDS, so I guess there's still some activity. I noticed that usually the majority of translations come out during the first half of the year, though I bet there are still some good ones coming before 2017 ends regardless. :)
I finally have some time to look into the patch, so I'll surely have some feedback soon! Thanks for your work thus far, Psyklax. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: goldenband on September 20, 2017, 05:10:35 pm
Very pleased to see the continued progress you've been making. :)

Seems funny to me that people hacking old NES games could have school to go to. :) I'm certainly very busy in real life, but it's got nothing to do with school.

Of course, some of those folks might be teachers, professors, etc. School isn't just for students, after all!
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 23, 2017, 01:04:03 am
Just an update to say Knight Lore is done. :) I'll be uploading all these FDS game patches eventually, but I wanted to talk briefly about my experience with hacking this one.

I needed a few extra bytes to do the translation I wanted, just the "set side A/B" message, but I couldn't find any empty space in which to put it. Eventually it struck me: of course there's no empty space, it's not a ROM. A ROM has to be a specific size, so there's usually empty space, but FDS uses disks with files, and the files can be any size, as long as the disk is the right size. So there's empty space on the disk, but not in RAM during playing. So what to do?

Well, there's a very simple header format for all the files on the disk, which says the size of the file as well as where it's loaded into RAM. I noticed that for each level, Knight Lore used a different file, each a different size. I thought "so it's overwriting the same position in RAM, but it's always different amounts. What if I just add a few more bytes and change the header? It won't be overwriting anything important". So I did, and it worked. :)

Moral of the story is: FDS seems weird when you've done a lot of NES hacking, but there are advantages, such as being able to expand the files on the disk. No messing around with mappers here. :D

I think I'll do a few more FDS games. Adian no Tsue looks curious...
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: filler on September 23, 2017, 01:16:26 am
Awesome! Any chance this might work with Miho Nakayama's Tokimeki High School? FCandChill said they wanted to edit the script themselves, then kind of disappeared. :P
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on September 23, 2017, 02:00:53 am
My guess is Knight Lore had allocated a certain amount of RAM for holding level data and allows file expansion up to the maximum size.
You could expand a file but you have to be careful that expanding the file doesn't overwrite other data loaded (or written at runtime, the PRG-RAM is still writable).
Of course, if you are manually inserting extra space with a hex editor, you would have to insert it at the right space in the file within the "ROM", then remove extra space so the disk side size total is still the 65,000 byte size, as well as updating the file's header with the right size. Or else I imagine you'll effectively corrupt the game.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 23, 2017, 03:15:21 am
My guess is Knight Lore had allocated a certain amount of RAM for holding level data and allows file expansion up to the maximum size.
You could expand a file but you have to be careful that expanding the file doesn't overwrite other data loaded (or written at runtime, the PRG-RAM is still writable).
Of course, if you are manually inserting extra space with a hex editor, you would have to insert it at the right space in the file within the "ROM", then remove extra space so the disk side size total is still the 65,000 byte size, as well as updating the file's header with the right size. Or else I imagine you'll effectively corrupt the game.

What it does is first load a file called DATA on side A which fills the space from $CB00 to $DFFF (the end of usable RAM). Then when you start the game, you have to insert side B, which loads a level file (D1 to D8, with D9 on side A), each time at $CB00. Thing is, each level file is a different size, overwriting a different amount each time. I figured that the eight extra bytes I needed in each level file wasn't overwriting anything useful, as a result, but just to be sure, I played with breakpoints after that position. There ARE some things right at the end of RAM that are read ($DFFF and thereabouts) but since I'm only adding eight bytes, that's no big deal. The smallest level file overwrites up to $D8D4, while the largest overwrites up to $DDC8. Clearly everything in between gets written and rewritten so much that it doesn't matter at all. And yes, I remembered to remove enough zeroes from the end of the file to keep the file size correct.

Awesome! Any chance this might work with Miho Nakayama's Tokimeki High School? FCandChill said they wanted to edit the script themselves, then kind of disappeared. :P

Um, maybe? I looked on the disk and while there is space, you have to know what's happening inside the game while it's running, like I just explained with Knight Lore. In the case of that game, I was able to add a (small) amount of extra data, but like with many things in ROM hacking, it's a case-by-case basis.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Pennywise on September 23, 2017, 06:23:35 am
There's a program called Table Dumper Pro that was done by my friend DvD. Among other features, he wanted something to aid him in Fds hacking. So, there's a file splitter and merger that also produces a file list with all the disk offsets, ram offsets, free space etc. It makes FDS hacking much more convenient.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 23, 2017, 07:19:27 am
There's a program called Table Dumper Pro that was done by my friend DvD. Among other features, he wanted something to aid him in Fds hacking. So, there's a file splitter and merger that also produces a file list with all the disk offsets, ram offsets, free space etc. It makes FDS hacking much more convenient.

I used FDS Explorer, does pretty much the same thing. :)
http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/662/
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on September 23, 2017, 02:02:03 pm
There ARE some things right at the end of RAM that are read ($DFFF and thereabouts)
The last six bytes of RAM are supposed be reserved for a game's vector table, I think.
Though I don't know if the FDS supports IRQs, so I imagine only NMI could go used, as I don't think Reset could be used since I don't think the FDS supports soft-resets.
But I have no experience in that area, it's just what I think I've read.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 23, 2017, 03:01:28 pm
The last six bytes of RAM are supposed be reserved for a game's vector table, I think.
Though I don't know if the FDS supports IRQs, so I imagine only NMI could go used, as I don't think Reset could be used since I don't think the FDS supports soft-resets.
But I have no experience in that area, it's just what I think I've read.

I don't have a real FDS so no idea about soft resets, but I think FCEUX can do it, for what it's worth. As for IRQ, NMI... I haven't got there in my NES knowledge, don't really understand it at all. :)
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on September 23, 2017, 04:17:35 pm
By soft reset, I mean reboot the game directly, without returning to the BIOS screen. (similar to how on a Wii, when you push Reset while running a GameCube game, it resets the GC game but doesn't drop you back at the system menu)

A "vector" is a 2-byte pointer to each of the three functions in the CPU's address space.

NMI is "non-maskable interrupt". An "interrupt" is a piece of code that is named because it makes the CPU interrupt whatever routine it was working on (needing a special instruction, RTI, to tell it to resume what it was doing previously to the interruption). "non-maskable" means there isn't a CPU instruction that can explicitly disable it (not affected by CLI, which I think is the relevant instruction). In this case of the NES the NMI is initiated by the PPU. (the CPU can write a command to tell the PPU to disable the NMI. However, it is NMI since the CPU cannot itself disable it.)
The PPU forces that routine to run once each frame, which is often how timing is done on the NES. Typically NMI will also run code to check for pending VRAM/palette write requests (ideally first since it's the most time-critical) as well as sound driver and controller input checks.

Reset is, as may have been implied, the start of the game code. Pushing Power or Reset sets the CPU to that instruction. Some Konami FDS games will call the Reset function of the FDS BIOS directly, as an antipiracy measure to effectively endlessly reboot the console if it detects the game has been hacked.

IRQ is a standard interrupt. I think it can be initiated by the BRK instruction but I've never seen it done intentionally (I've only seen it before because I recall it is opcode 00, making it a common thing to happen when debugging bad code.) The stock NES hardware doesn't use it but some of the more advanced mappers (such as MMC3) use it for some of the more advanced functions (like split-screen scrolling).

Oddly, the Master System uses NMI for the Pause button and makes Reset function like a gameplay button the game can ignore if it feels like it. Sounds like they should've been handled the opposite. :P
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on September 23, 2017, 04:53:18 pm
I knew what you meant regarding soft reset, I meant that FCEUX doesn't return to the BIOS when you do a soft reset, but I've no idea what a real FDS would do as I don't have one.

Interesting notes about those other things. I always assumed 00 (BRK) would just stop the game entirely. Still not sure I follow NMI or IRQ though, I'll need to read more about it, but in my hacking it's not something that's really been necessary to know. I did wonder how games would go into infinite loops (such as JMP to themselves, over and over) but still eventually continue the program counter. I guess it has something to do with the PPU saying "okay, next frame, get on with it". :)

Interesting mention of the SMS pause button too, didn't know it would actually freeze the game.

EDIT: since I first wrote this post, I've translated Breeder on the FDS. :D Literally all that there was was the "set side B" and "please wait" messages: everything else is in English. Credits, menus, everything. It's interesting to look on the disk, though. I mentioned that Knight Lore had files for each level which it loaded in to the 32KB RAM as required, but this game looks more like a ROM: side A has 32KB PRG and 8KB CHR files, side B the same, plus save data. Unsurprisingly, the side A file doesn't use anywhere near enough of that 32KB, so it's mostly empty. I added together all the files - without the empty space - and it came to 58KB. Why it's even double sided I'll never know. :D
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: KingMike on September 23, 2017, 08:05:17 pm
Interesting notes about those other things. I always assumed 00 (BRK) would just stop the game entirely. Still not sure I follow NMI or IRQ though, I'll need to read more about it, but in my hacking it's not something that's really been necessary to know. I did wonder how games would go into infinite loops (such as JMP to themselves, over and over) but still eventually continue the program counter. I guess it has something to do with the PPU saying "okay, next frame, get on with it". :)

Supposedly the better way to detect Vblank (than directly checking $2002),
is to do something like
Code: [Select]
LDA #$00
STA Flag
Loop:
CMP #$00
BNE Loop

and then in the NMI route set Loop to a non-zero value.

One possible way of writing to VRAM is to format data in RAM (when it's time to write data to VRAM, you want the CPU to just blast it in there, not waste time calculating it).
Then set a flag that tells the NMI routine data is ready to be written. (the NMI routine would thus have code to read the formatted data and write it)
The weird thing about the NES PPU is that every time data is written to VRAM (even like tile data), the scroll registers need to be rewritten afterwards or the PPU freaks out, even if not scrolling the screen.
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on October 02, 2017, 01:36:38 pm
Please do! Here are the two blocks of Outlanders that I dumped with the work I've done so far.

I'm done with the Outlanders script. This is probably a dumb question, but where do I post it?
Title: Re: Translations of early Famicom games
Post by: Psyklax on October 02, 2017, 05:03:11 pm
I'm done with the Outlanders script. This is probably a dumb question, but where do I post it?

It's not a dumb question at all, but if you were amending Filler's script, I guess you could PM him. Of course I don't know who's going to hack the script into the game, but I could give it a try if nobody else has. Not that I have time for any hacking these days... :(