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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Tom on November 26, 2016, 09:15:06 am

Title: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 26, 2016, 09:15:06 am
(https://s11.postimg.org/89rjdre8z/Tengailogo.png)
(https://s21.postimg.org/kltbpgwsn/TMZero.png)(https://s21.postimg.org/q8p4yv5k7/TMZero2.png)(https://s4.postimg.org/3yd6thu2l/TMZero3.png)(https://s22.postimg.org/mjvtboo69/TMZero4.png)

I thought I'd start off the post with some pictures of the current work in progress... I figured it'd be more fun that way.

After mulling over the possibilities, and discussing things with byuu, I've decided to open up the project to another hacker to get the game released in a reasonable time frame.

If you're a hacker (or know a hacker) who wants to work with me on this project, please post a reply to this thread. Show some pictures of SFC/SNES games you've worked on. I want some public feedback as well. Who do you think would be the best hacker for this project?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Gideon Zhi on November 26, 2016, 11:45:26 am
The pictures look good, but you haven't given any indication of the project's completion level. What's been done and what's left to do?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 26, 2016, 12:12:36 pm
Hacking-wise, very little has been done... It's just that what has been done was done very well. In terms of hacking, I'd say it's less than five percent complete.

The script, however, is good to go.

Off the top of my head...

All text has been translated, but not all of the translated text is integrated into the current version. Menus aren't working due to no small font... In the current version, the menus have been left in Japanese for the sake of playability... All of this text has been translated. It's just been left out of the patcher.

The game needs to have the date-entry screen hacked to allow for more current dates...

There are three "custom strategies" in the Japanese version that can be named by selecting two (of many possible) kanji tiles. These two kanji will appear as the name of the skill in the battle options screen... (All battle options are shown graphically.) This will have to be totally reworked, because it would make no sense in English. I think the best solution is to have pre-set strategy names that cannot be changed by the player. They should only be able to customize each strategy.

Plenty of graphics hacking still needs to be done... Some in battle, but most outside of battle.

Variables don't always display properly, and the game has a tendency to let traces of previously-on-screen text linger in places where it shouldn't... And if an enemy (or skill) name goes past a certain number of characters in the battle window, the name becomes totally invisible.

The credits screen causes the current version of the game to crash, but it can be played through all the way to the end in its current state.

I'm sure there's more.

This project isn't going to be just a couple of brush-ups. Hacking it would be pretty much starting from "Zero."
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on November 26, 2016, 09:46:20 pm
I already told you, go ask bongo or Nightcrawler.

Bongo is a very active romhacker and do stuff fast.

Nightcrawler just finish the Glory of Heracles 4 translation, and afaik Glory of Heracles 4 is a much more complex game to hack than Feoez, so he can be your guy. He has experience in doing these crazy vwf font in menus.

Gideon is another guy to ask, but by his site he has dozens of other projects, so who knows. But he already posted here, so maybe you can convince him to put this game in the top of his queue.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 26, 2016, 11:07:11 pm
The reason I have not contacted anyone personally and instead requested that interested hackers post here is because I wanted to give everyone the opportunity to offer to help, or make their suggestions.

I looked at the Glory of Heracles 4 English footage on Youtube, but it looks like the title screen was left in Japanese. There's a lot of graphics editing that needs to be done in Tengai Makyou Zero, so I hope whoever hacks it is up to the task. Maybe the footage from GoH 4 is from a preliminary version?

As for Gideon, I'm more interested in finishing up our older translations before starting up another project, because I know how full his plate is, already. In fact, I'd love to give the old Madara 2 script another pass to polish it up, if he still has it. (It's been how many years?)

(https://s13.postimg.org/o8bhal93r/TMZero5.png)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on November 27, 2016, 01:40:33 am
Glory of Heracles 4 translation with a Japanese title screen is indeed old.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 27, 2016, 04:25:23 am
Thanks for clarifying, KingMike.

Hopefully Nightcrawler is interested in the project... But I realize that it's not exactly a popular game, and it's a lot of work.

It's understandable if he's not interested.

Hopefully somebody will offer to pick it up soon enough.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Gideon Zhi on November 27, 2016, 01:26:10 pm
As for Gideon, I'm more interested in finishing up our older translations before starting up another project, because I know how full his plate is, already. In fact, I'd love to give the old Madara 2 script another pass to polish it up, if he still has it. (It's been how many years?)

This :) I have a lot on my plate and not nearly as much time as I used to. I'd take this on if nobody else does though. Don't get me wrong, it's not because I don't want it, I'm just not sure about my ability to finish it in a timely fashion.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 27, 2016, 08:30:40 pm
Everybody's already got a lot to do, and the game just isn't worth moving to the front of the queue for most hackers.

The sad thing is, it really is worth it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on November 28, 2016, 02:12:57 pm
Oh glad to see this gem is again getting another translation attempt ! Been very curious to play it since DaJap days  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 28, 2016, 08:40:13 pm
Well, the translation is finished.

The problem is finding a hacker to work on it.
Title: .
Post by: Gamerhenky on November 28, 2016, 08:47:43 pm
.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 29, 2016, 07:02:25 am
I put a help wanted ad up once before, when I was looking for an editor for the Echo Night 2 manual.

Right after I put up the ad, I started to get a bunch of junk mail sent to that address, so I decided that I'd rather get people's attention through the message board.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on November 30, 2016, 10:02:48 am
Really happy to see something being done with this project after so many years! I don't know if he would be willing to help but have you thought about asking ddstranslation? He may be too busy finishing Fire Emblem 4 (I think he also recently started working on Goemon 2) but he has done some really great work on the Super Nintendo and seems to enjoy helping to finish long running projects.

Whatever ends up happening, I wish you the best of luck  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on November 30, 2016, 03:52:58 pm
Apart of ddstranslation; another capable and expert snes hacker is magno, he's giving some help to the guys working on the Gokuuden games for the snes .
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on November 30, 2016, 04:08:08 pm
By all accounts magno is an excellent SNES hacker, but his focus has always been on doing Spanish translations. I've yet to see any serious attempt by him to do an English translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 30, 2016, 06:40:59 pm
I haven't asked individual hackers personally, as I want to have this offer open to anyone who can do it... Not just the people I know personally. If any hackers can do it, I'd like them to post here in this thread. I'm not going to beg each one personally. I just want to put the offer out there for a hacker who actually wants to work on it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on November 30, 2016, 06:50:18 pm
You need to wait people find this thread.
And Gemini, do you have contact with him?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Gemini on November 30, 2016, 08:10:47 pm
I would have helped if I had the proper knowledge to handle SNES stuff at this degree of difficulty, but it's out of my league entirely. I'm more of a MIPS guy.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ddstranslation on November 30, 2016, 08:16:34 pm
What kind of level of support are you looking for? The posted screenshots make it seem like you have things well in hand.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on November 30, 2016, 10:30:06 pm
I only showed the good pictures. Like I said to Gideon, there's a ton of hacking left to do. Don't let those pictures fool you. Here are some messier ones.

(https://s11.postimg.org/eudvwcxir/Tengai_Makyou_Bio.png)
(https://s14.postimg.org/wr9y2vy8x/Tengai_Makyou_Zero_Skills.png)
(https://s4.postimg.org/9ev7v1bq5/Tengai_Makyou_Zero_Strat.png)

Even these pictures may not convey how much needs to be done.

Whoever takes up this project might as well think of this as starting a brand new project, dialogue aside. It's not just a matter of restructuring the menus. There are fundamental changes that need to be made to be able to change the date for the real-time clock, and how strategy names are displayed, along with a ton of graphical changes.

P.S. By the way, my seems the translation for the calendar entry appears to be slightly off. "Worldwide AIDS Day" should just be "World AIDS Day." That's the official English name. I just changed it in the script now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ddstranslation on November 30, 2016, 11:39:32 pm
Sorry for that redundant question. I also looked up the other thread you had posted in regarding this game. Is LostTemplar not available to help finish this? Or would waiting on anyone be something like waiting a span of years for?

I'll admit straight up, I don't know how the real-time clock works or what to do with it. And it does seem intimidating to sign onto a game with this kind of reputation. But for what it's worth, I would be happy to try to help out in any way that I can. It's a terrible feeling to be so close to finishing a project and then getting stuck.

I am technically participating in 2 current projects right now (Fire Emblem 4 and Goemon 2), but the former is basically "done" and the latter I've barely started on. I wouldn't mind putting them off to focus on this game. Though I'm also personally working extra hours at my job currently, so my free time would be a bit limited for the next few weeks. On the other hand, I basically have nothing else to do or any obligations to worry about, so I should be able to devote most free time to this.

Here's some pics like you requested in your OP though:
Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9DBeP7SDErU/hqdefault.jpg)
Romancing SaGa (http://gaming.moe/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Romancing-SaGa-Eng-DDS-v1.1001.png)
Fire Emblem 4 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmvUHWdWYAAhrdc.jpg:orig)
Wizardry Gaiden 4 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrthgGyWYAAm3vh.jpg:orig)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 01, 2016, 12:41:34 am
Thanks for showing your work, ddstranslation!

Lost Templar is very busy with real life at the moment, and he also has another project that he wanted to do in addition to that. He seems to have too much on his plate (much like Gideon Zhi)!

I'm sure Lost Templar WANTS to do it. Just like byuu and Gideon.

But the old thread that some guy from youtube posted before made me think... If I keep waiting on the people who brought the project to where it is now, someone else is bound to just write it off as a lost cause and translate it themselves.

So I changed my mind and opened it up to others.

ddstranslation, if you're not sure about the game, why not give it a look? You'll be able to see the date-entry right at the start. Notice that you're not able to enter the current date... (I think the cut-off is 2014...) The game is able to display the date past that... But it won't let you enter a date beyond that.

Do some digging. If you think you can get around that, let me know.

In the meantime, I'll keep the offer open to other hackers, just in case any of them also want to throw in their hat for an attempt at the hacking. I figure if we assemble a lot of people who are interested in hacking the game here, we can all work out together who'll take up the reigns officially. I want this to be settled publicly. I don't want it just to be my own decision.

I've heard some good things about Nightcrawler, Bongo, and Magno. I don't know much about any of them, but they may not know about this thread yet. I'll give them (and any others) a while longer to post here before we all settle on a hacker.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ddstranslation on December 02, 2016, 01:42:42 am
Thanks for showing your work, ddstranslation!

Lost Templar is very busy with real life at the moment, and he also has another project that he wanted to do in addition to that. He seems to have too much on his plate (much like Gideon Zhi)!

I'm sure Lost Templar WANTS to do it. Just like byuu and Gideon.

But the old thread that some guy from youtube posted before made me think... If I keep waiting on the people who brought the project to where it is now, someone else is bound to just write it off as a lost cause and translate it themselves.

So I changed my mind and opened it up to others.

ddstranslation, if you're not sure about the game, why not give it a look? You'll be able to see the date-entry right at the start. Notice that you're not able to enter the current date... (I think the cut-off is 2014...) The game is able to display the date past that... But it won't let you enter a date beyond that.

Do some digging. If you think you can get around that, let me know.

In the meantime, I'll keep the offer open to other hackers, just in case any of them also want to throw in their hat for an attempt at the hacking. I figure if we assemble a lot of people who are interested in hacking the game here, we can all work out together who'll take up the reigns officially. I want this to be settled publicly. I don't want it just to be my own decision.

I've heard some good things about Nightcrawler, Bongo, and Magno. I don't know much about any of them, but they may not know about this thread yet. I'll give them (and any others) a while longer to post here before we all settle on a hacker.

Hm, if you want to change the date entry to allow up to 2099, you can change the byte value at $BC71 ($C0:BC71) from 73 to C8, and the two bytes at $BE75  ($C0:BE75) from 30 12 to EA EA. Though that only allows bypassing the 2014 limit on setting the date at this screen. It would remain to be seen if the game would respect post-2014 dates during gameplay. Plus the birthday screen right afterwards would also need to be updated to allow dates past 1999.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyp0dukXAAAGL9B.jpg)

I was curious about how the game itself would communicate with the emulator to check what the current date/time was. That's such an interesting concept.

I hope you can find the help you need to finally get this project out the door. :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 03:50:49 am
Wow, that didn't take you long to figure out. I'm impressed. You just might be the one for the job! It doesn't seem like anyone else is interested, in any case... To anyone else reading this thread: What's your opinion? And to anyone else who wanted to hack it: do you want to make an offer, or will you give ddstranslations your blessing?

Considering the small number of people watching this thread, I guess it's safe to say that if nobody speaks up by the time the weekend's over, it'd be a good idea to let ddstranslations have a go at it.

By the way, I can confirm that the game recognizes the date past 2014. It just doesn't let you initialize the clock past 2014... My current save shows the proper date, December 2, 2016... So I'm pretty sure it would work properly with this hack, too. That's good news.

If you can make progress that quickly, this project may not take very long at all. How confident are you about graphics editing?

Look at this image here:
(https://s11.postimg.org/rvddtsrqb/Tengai_Image_I.png)

There are plenty of little signs and things like this that need to be redone in English. Do you know someone who's good with that sort of thing?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on December 02, 2016, 04:48:32 am
If you're able to extract the graphics I'll be glad to help.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 05:03:40 am
Can you show some examples of your work, FlashPV?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 02, 2016, 06:22:00 am
I think the challenge with the RTC is adjusting all the events. Bypass the 2014 limit is like 1% of the trouble, assuming that the RTC chip accepts date past 2014 (probably yes).
They put a 2014 limit for some reason, so problably there are no triggers for events after 2014.
And for what I read this game has several events, so find out all the the events, dates and triggers should be a lot of work.

Tom, do you have the list of events and the dates? Ddstranslation will need this information.

But if the events are triggered by the week day, or someway independent of the year number, then this modification made by ddstranslation should be enough. Let's hope so.

The problem with the graphics decompression is that it uses the SPC7110, so there is no "decompression routine" to debug. You need to extract using the SPC7110 algorithm. Probably there are decompressors, but the problem is recompressing. And you'll need to expand the rom.
This should work only on Bsnes for now, where you can create a custom manifest. And to debug probably using the Bsnes Plus or Bsnes v086 (Laevatein).
Tom, did LostTemplar already expand the Rom? What emulator do you use to play this translation?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 07:11:05 am
2014 is only the oldest date that you can enter as an initializing point. It doesn't mean that the game stops tracking at 2014. It just means that you can't initialize the date later than that.

Events still trigger perfectly fine after 2014, as far as I can tell. There are no "events" that rely on the year...

-There are 11 big monthly events at the shrines. (There are no big events in November.) These events can only be triggered after saving the divine beasts, though.
-There are also "minor" events at the shrines, on weekends, I think.
-Some shops are only open on certain days.
-Some events only occur at certain times of day.
-There's also one instance in which a character tells you to come back in an hour, and it triggers a flag to lock that event from happening until an actual hour later.

So you have events relating to date, month, day, hour, and time spent since flag triggered.

(The only thing I'm not sure about is how the game might handle a leap-year birthday.) But all in-game events still work past 2014. Of that much, I can assure you.

I don't think the rom is expanded... Byuu was talking about that, I think. He said that needed to be done.

Here's what byuu said to me in an e-mail...

Quote
There's a lot of special considerations on this game that make it harder than most, too:
* the special memory mapper
* adapting the RTC system since you can't even set the current date in-game anymore ( I know, I took way too long ;_; )
* the special coprocessor compression algorithm that will need to be decompressed/recompressed or bypassed
* expanding the game will be a special case (I'll help explain how to do this to whoever you choose; and I'll coordinate with Snes9X to get it supported there too)

And yes, it can only be played in bsnes. It also needs some xml file that Lost Templar gave me (which I believe is related to the font?) with the same name as the rom file added to the folder.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on December 02, 2016, 07:58:19 am
In fact I've done mostly some title screen graphics.
You can see most of my work on my profile.
http://www.romhacking.net/community/1637/ (http://www.romhacking.net/community/1637/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 08:32:39 am
Looks good to me!  :)

Thanks for the offer, and welcome to the team!

Once the graphics are dumped, I'll provide you with a translation for each bit, and you can work your magic.

Be warned, there's more than just a title screen! (But I think you can handle it.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on December 02, 2016, 08:36:19 am
No problem PM me when you are ready.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 02, 2016, 08:41:23 am
Quote
And yes, it can only be played in bsnes. It also needs some xml file that Lost Templar gave me (which I believe is related to the font?) with the same name as the rom file added to the folder.

The original game has 5MB. What's the size of your translated game? If LostTemplar gave you a manifest (this Xml) than probably it's already expanded. If the Rom size is 6MB or more than it's already expanded. (The Manifest is a file with the memory mapper for a particular game. You need to manually create this manifest in more complex cases because the emulator heuristics can't predict the memory map).
Byuu changed the manifest format a few times, so if you have a .xml manifest than probably you are using v092 or below, right? I think after v094 it changed to .bml.
Anyway, if the game is already expanded than it's less work, and the game should have space for new graphics and other stuff.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 02, 2016, 09:38:34 am
Nice to see the heavily hard to modify rtc as been easily hacked  :)

(From what he said, events still work fine after 2014, it's probably just the programmers never thought some people would still play the game post 2014 so probably limited the year entry screen just because of that).

Looks good to me!  :)

Thanks for the offer, and welcome to the team!

Once the graphics are dumped, I'll provide you with a translation for each bit, and you can work your magic.

Be warned, there's more than just a title screen! (But I think you can handle it.)

-Tom

FlashPV is da man when it come to graphic edits  ;)

The problem with the graphics decompression is that it uses the SPC7110, so there is no "decompression routine" to debug. You need to extract using the SPC7110 algorithm. Probably there are decompressors, but the problem is recompressing. And you'll need to expand the rom.

Would just require to store the graphics uncompressed and see if the game can handle them uncompressed (modifying the reading/loading graphics routine)

And without decompressors, wouldn't it be possible to get the graphics uncompressed directly from the VRAM? (as it should decompress it before displaying it in-game).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 09:57:17 am
The original game has 5MB. What's the size of your translated game? If LostTemplar gave you a manifest (this Xml) than probably it's already expanded. If the Rom size is 6MB or more than it's already expanded. (The Manifest is a file with the memory mapper for a particular game. You need to manually create this manifest in more complex cases because the emulator heuristics can't predict the memory map).
Byuu changed the manifest format a few times, so if you have a .xml manifest than probably you are using v092 or below, right? I think after v094 it changed to .bml.
Anyway, if the game is already expanded than it's less work, and the game should have space for new graphics and other stuff.

6,144KB for the translated rom... So it's already expanded. I'm using v087-32 bit bsnes to run it. In addition to that, the RTC workaround seems to be all but settled, thanks to ddstranslations.

That leaves only two challenges left in byuu's list, if I'm not mistaken:

* the special memory mapper
* the special coprocessor compression algorithm that will need to be decompressed/recompressed or bypassed

December 02, 2016, 10:09:35 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Nice to see the heavily hard to modify rtc as been easily hacked  :)

(From what he said, events still work fine after 2014, it's probably just the programmers never thought some people would still play the game post 2014 so probably limited the year entry screen just because of that).

Yes, this was long before emulation was in effect. They must have figured that everybody would have initialized the cart times by then, since you only have to do it once, when the game first gets set up. 2014 is actually surprisingly generous, if you think about it that way.

Quote
FlashPV is da man when it come to graphic edits

You can say that again!

Quote
And without decompressors, wouldn't it be possible to get the graphics uncompressed directly from the VRAM? (as it should decompress it before displaying it in-game).

Who knows? But that would require you to see the graphics in-game, right? There are some graphics that are very hard to come across...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 02, 2016, 02:22:54 pm
Quote
* the special memory mapper
* the special coprocessor compression algorithm that will need to be decompressed/recompressed or bypassed

The memory mapper is this .xml Lost Templar created. It expand the rom, so it's already done. Now the rom has the free space needed by the translation and it's already working in the emulator.

Besides the compression/recompression for the graphics you need all the menus done, and it's a lot of work. Byuu's goal was to put a vwf font in the menus, and it's a lot of work.
So you have these 2 main goals.

Tom, and what about the items translation, enemies, etc? They are already translated?

Quote
Would just require to store the graphics uncompressed and see if the game can handle them uncompressed (modifying the reading/loading graphics routine)

The problem with that should be timing. I think SPC7110 can decompress very quickly, so do it using the Cpu may not work, but who knows.
A better approach is to study the SPC7110 and see if it has more than one mode. Maybe there is a dummy mode where the recompression is very simple (with no or little compression).

Quote
And without decompressors, wouldn't it be possible to get the graphics uncompressed directly from the VRAM? (as it should decompress it before displaying it in-game).

Yes, but the problem is the recompression, because this SPC7110 seems to be a little complex.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 08:20:58 pm
Besides the compression/recompression for the graphics you need all the menus done, and it's a lot of work. Byuu's goal was to put a vwf font in the menus, and it's a lot of work.
So you have these 2 main goals.

Crazy! That's great!

I saw this Youtube video a while back... About 22 seconds in, it shows a menu screen hacked with a VWF. The translation isn't that good. (A dollar sign? Really?) But the small vwf font looks very clean. Almost too clean. Not sure who did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDqLyccgrto

Quote
Tom, and what about the items translation, enemies, etc? They are already translated?

Everything is translated, but Lost Templar made some "exceptions" for them in the patcher, so that they are not inserted and the menus remain in Japanese, for the most part. He did this so I could still play through the game and check the script, instead of having everything in the menu being an unplayable mess.

The system check stuff that happens at the initial bootup is neither dumped nor inserted, but I've recreated all of that text (a small amount) in a separate text file and translated it ahead of time. I think the only things I haven't translated and documented are some of the graphics, like signs above inns and weapon shops, but we'll cross that tiny bridge when we come to it.

Enemy names and skill names are displayed with the standard font, so they're display well enough, mostly... Longer names sometimes become invisible, or leave parts on the screen even after they're supposed to have disappeared... But that's for a hacker to clean up, not me.

Quote
Yes, but the problem is the recompression, because this SPC7110 seems to be a little complex.

That's kinda scary...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 02, 2016, 08:52:29 pm
Quote
I saw this Youtube video a while back...

The video is clearly fake. The guy is referring to your translation at the time LostTemplar begun to work on the game some years ago. He says while the game is not finished people can play the Arabian Night patch. After that he shows a "sample" of a menu supposedly made by the feoez team. Just ignore.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2016, 10:35:01 pm
The video is clearly fake. The guy is referring to your translation at the time LostTemplar begun to work on the game some years ago. He says while the game is not finished people can play the Arabian Night patch. After that he shows a "sample" of a menu supposedly made by the feoez team. Just ignore.

I thought it was fake. That font looked way too clean to be running on the SNES. It must be a mockup that somebody made.

December 04, 2016, 01:38:22 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well, I guess enough time has passed. I guess most hackers were too busy.

I've sent things over to ddstranslation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 04, 2016, 03:06:22 am
Hi Tom, today I tried to change some graphics and I was able to do some stuff:

(https://s12.postimg.org/exjcnu8nx/intro.png)

To this particular example I used Hiei- advice of using the decompressed graphics from Vram. So I got the graphic and edited it using photoshop (you can see some artifacts in the logo. I' m not a graphics editor and I did this edtion very fast).
The problem was the reinsertion, because the SPC7110 has 3 algorithms, and they are a little complex to understand and to create a compressor in a short time, at least for me.

So I studied the SPC7110 and tried some approachs.

1-) After some study I found that the SPC7110 put the decompressed data in $50:0000. So the game asks the chip to decompress the graphics and after the decompression is done it reads from $50:0000 and, after some work, send to Vram (more of that later).
So my first approach was, after the chip decompression (we can know when the data is ready), to overwrite the decompressed data in $50:0000 with my new translated graphics. This way the game should work as usual but showing the new graphics, and the solution would be very simple.
But seems that writing to $50:0000 is not allowed, at least in Bsnes. I tried to change Bsnes code to allow this write but it is cheating, so I gave up this idea. But I don't know if the real chip doesn't allow this writing to $50:0000, or if it was a Byuu's decision, assuming that it's not the supposed way to work.
So this approach didn't work.

2-) My next approach was find some register inside SPC7110 that allowed a "uncompressed mode". After some read I found that $480b could do the job, at least according to no$cash and neviksti:

Quote
480Bh - Decompression Mode
Reportedly:
  00 - manual decompression, $4800 is used to read directly from the data rom

  02 - hardware decompression, decompressed data is mapped to $50:0000,
       $4800 can be used to read sequentially from bank $50

Seems that Feoez only uses $02 to $480b, so I tried to use this $00 mode, but Bsnes v086 doesn' t implement this behaviour. I searched in the last Higan version and seems that $480b is used in some places, but for what I understood it's not related to this "uncompressed mode" we was looking for. Again, I don' t know if it's still an unsuported feature that could work on the real chip.

3-) My last approach was to change the code that send the decompressed data to Vram and change it to send my translated graphics. After some debugging I saw that the game uses some kind of DMA queue, and in some moment it sends the data to Vram in blocks of 0x20 bytes.
So first I changed the routine that send the decompression command to SPC7110. In the beggining of this function we have some kind of pointer to the compressed graphics, and this pointer the game sends to the chip. So if the pointer is the intro logo pointer I set a flag in some Ram position (I had to find some unused Ram space, but it's just for now). With this flag enabled I changed the DMA queue routine to send my data, instead of the SPC7110 decompressed data, to Vram, based on this flag.
This way I could take this picture with the graphics inserted.

This worked, but I faced a lot of problems.

a-) I had to find a unused Ram space, specifically 3 bytes. The region I used ($7ffff0) was unused in the part I tested, but who knows if later in the game this region is used. I tried to use Sram, but the Sram usage is weird because you have to set a register to map the Sram, and seems that this change broke the memory map when I tried to use.

b-) The tile order of the decompressed graphics isn' t in the same order when it is sent to Vram. So I had to reorder the tiles in the image to show it properly.

c-) My last solution doesn' t have a big impact in timing because I'm only changing the Dma address by a new address, so the only impact is my new code. But I don' t know if "not using the uncompressed data" could do some harm in some situations, because inside SPC7110 there are some counters that are decremented when you read the data through $4800. But seems to work as far I can tell.

d-)The SPC7110 has 3 compression modes, and seems that the game follows different paths based on the mode. So I only changed the mode used by this intro logo.

And that is it Tom. I hope you enjoyed. But don't think I can work in this game. My romhacking skills are only intermediary. I'm not an experienced romhaker like LostTemplar and Ddtranslation, even less a guru like Byuu and Nightcrawler. And I'm working in other projects right now. I did this little debugging only for fun and as a proof of concept showing that we can change the graphics in this game. The idea is encourage other people to work on this game.

PS: I can share my code and feel free to ask any details if you (or you team) need.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 04, 2016, 04:32:58 am
That is stunning!

I'm really impressed at what you've done, DougRPG. Even though you don't want to work on it yourself, you've managed to make good progress in a very short period of time, and you've done it without even being officially attached to the project. Let me offer you my sincere gratitude for that. It makes me very happy!  :)

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 04, 2016, 11:25:23 pm
Maybe someone should ask Byuu about : "But I don't know if the real chip doesn't allow this writing to $50:0000, or if it was a Byuu's decision, assuming that it's not the supposed way to work."
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 04, 2016, 11:50:15 pm
Hi Tom, good news, now I have a method to decompress and compress the graphics. I'll send the details for you later. But I'm using a compressor made by neviksti with help of several other guys. For what I read people like DarkForce, neviksti, Byuu, and other guys, made an amazing job understanding the SPC7110.

(https://s12.postimg.org/tfwojd7wp/feoez000.png)
(https://s12.postimg.org/exzhbdgll/feoez001.png)
(https://s12.postimg.org/jl5jd53yh/feoez002.png)
(https://s13.postimg.org/4wuqji4on/bigger.png)

I made a video showing this intro:

https://youtu.be/L_DhzaNhiag (https://youtu.be/L_DhzaNhiag)

The garbage in the gate is because I changed a tile that is used in other places. There are a lot of tile reuse and I didn't change any tilemap.
The "2016" that I put in that pillar has green and pink colors because seems that these tiles use a different pallete.

So with this compressor, and reading Bsnes code (the best source of information about Snes internals), I learned what needs to be done to translate the graphics. So the SPC7110 compression is not a problem anymore (hope so). Now a hacker can work the graphics in this game like any other game. Of course the SPC7110 has a particular way of working, but it's simple after you learn.

By the way, when I change the rom and load a previous save, after a reset the game shows the screen below:

(https://s12.postimg.org/vj2idaibt/error.png)

What this text is saying? The game seems to work fine after that.

Like I said in my previous post I don't think I have the skills (yet) to work in a legendary game like Feoez. This game deserves a more experienced romhacker like the ones listed in this topic, but I can help with these minor stuff. Then if I find more information I'll send to you. And of course I'll send you all the details I found untill now.

Thanks

December 04, 2016, 11:57:46 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Maybe someone should ask Byuu about : "But I don't know if the real chip doesn't allow this writing to $50:0000, or if it was a Byuu's decision, assuming that it's not the supposed way to work."

There is no need anymore. And I really think you can't write in $50. The SPC7110 controls the bank mapping, so probably it's not allowed to write to $50. But who knows? If you can read from $50 maybe you can write too  :D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on December 05, 2016, 12:18:16 am
The text says "Today is Christmas Eve. Hopefully, Santa Claus will visit everyone's place tonight"
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2016, 08:14:54 am
DougRPG... Since you're doing so well with the graphics already, perhaps you and I could work on the graphics hacking, along with FlashPV, while ddstranslation works on the menus and glitchy stuff? Given how much you've done already, I think you should be a part of the team! (ddstranslation gave me a thumbs up about you, so if you'd like to be in charge of the graphics editing, let me know.)

This would be a much more effective way to work!

What do you say?

By the way, thanks for letting him know what the screen said, Aeana!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2016, 10:01:40 am
Well, what do you know? I just regained access to my old account name.

(I usually go by "Tom" rather than Tommy... I only changed to Tommy when I forgot my password.)

I didn't realize how easy it is to request a password change.
Title: .
Post by: Gamerhenky on December 05, 2016, 10:06:17 am
.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2016, 10:36:27 am
Oh shit you're the one who make Last Bible II and Last Bible Special English translations too :o

Yeah, that's me! :angel:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 05, 2016, 11:05:51 am
What do you say?

Hi Tom, well, if no one else is willing to work on the graphics I can take this job. But fell free to talk to more experienced romhackers. I, like you, want to see a wonderful translation for this game. So if you find a more experienced guy feel free to put him/her in the head of the graphics and I share all the information I have, ok?
I'm going on vacation next week, so then I can work on this game more intensely.

If you want we can talk by email, PM, or using other method. Let me know.


The text says "Today is Christmas Eve. Hopefully, Santa Claus will visit everyone's place tonight"

What?! What this sentence has to do with changing the rom and loading an old save? I think this is related to the internal clock. I don't think this is some kind of checksum, because if I don't load an old save this message does not appear.

Thanks Aeana.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on December 05, 2016, 11:09:03 am
It's definitely a message about Christmas. So it must have something to do with the clock.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2016, 12:11:00 pm
DougRPG, I was thinking that you can be in charge of extraction and insertion.

I'll translate everything you extract, and send it to FlashPV.

FlashPV will then do the pixel art, and send it back for insertion.


Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 05, 2016, 12:51:25 pm
Ok Tom, I sent you an email.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2016, 10:01:09 pm
Thank you for sending some of the graphics, DougRPG.

I've translated them, and sent a message to FlashPV.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 06, 2016, 05:09:44 pm
There is no need anymore. And I really think you can't write in $50. The SPC7110 controls the bank mapping, so probably it's not allowed to write to $50. But who knows? If you can read from $50 maybe you can write too  :D

Yeah, just saw that, nice :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on December 06, 2016, 07:15:17 pm
I can't contribute anything myself, but I just want to say that I'm extremely happy to see so much dedication for this project!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 06, 2016, 09:06:22 pm
Blackiris,

Thanks for your kind words. Tengai Makyou might not be the most popular RPG series out there, but I'm glad there are people out there who do appreciate the work that I've put into it, along with the work that ddstranslation, DougRPG, FlashPV, Lost Templar and byuu have put into it.

I can't wait to share this great game with people like you, who never got the chance to play it. I hope you like it when it's released. I'm sure you will.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on December 06, 2016, 10:06:37 pm
I'm rooting for your guys too! Been following this project since Lost Templar first posted about it in 2012 and I've been hoping to play Zero in general for many years.

Good luck you guys  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on December 06, 2016, 10:09:16 pm
I've following every progress I've seen around this game since circa 2004, and now I'm so excited to see this is getting some love finally!  :crazy:

Please get my entire good vibe to do a victorious Spirit Bomb that will get into a victory this project, guys!!!!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on December 06, 2016, 10:22:28 pm
Just popping in for moral support------this is literally one of the last SNES RPG's I haven't played and would really, really like to!  The folks jumping on board are all high quality too, so I'm actually legit excited about this finally getting done!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 07, 2016, 04:18:49 am
Lentfilms, mikeprado30, and magictrufflez... Thanks!

I'm just as eager as all of you guys!

By the way, if you haven't already, you should check out DDStrans' twitter account. He's been posting some of the hacking work he's done. I was really impressed by his latest menu picture.

https://twitter.com/DDSTrans/status/806409064473362433 (https://twitter.com/DDSTrans/status/806409064473362433)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on December 07, 2016, 09:58:40 am
While this is being worked on, I encourage anyone who hasn't done so yet to play Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2035/). It's excellent fan translation (translated by Tom) of a very good GBA game. Amazing visuals, rately used historic pseudo-Asian fantasy setting, unique atmosphere and a degree of freedom only present in few other JRPG titles (like the Romancing SaGa games). Plus, in terms of content it's probably one of the biggest 16-bit RPGs ever. Battles aside, it's not very much like other Tengai Makyou titles (it's more on the serious side), but I think every fan of classic JRPGs and Japanese aesthetics will love this game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 07, 2016, 11:44:51 am
Thanks for promoting Oriental Blue. I worked hard to translate that one, and Kingcom worked hard to hack it.

Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai's battles are actually distinct from all of the other Tengai series games as well. It is the only game in the series in which enemies scale to your level... So even if you level up, the enemies will still pose a threat. Also, your skills have both positive aspects and drawbacks... So you don't always just use your biggest damage dealing skill. You are encouraged to use many different skills, because they never become obsolete... (Unless you know the weapon modding tricks that let you steamroll through the game.)

It's also the only game in the series that has crafting and customization that play into battles. (Most of them follow the standard formula... Level up, get stronger.) Oriental Blue bucks the trend. Pairing this with its relative non-linearity... It really is a unique entry in the series, in every way.

There were a lot of minor details in the game that really surprised me... Most people will never notice this, but I really liked how different characters would translate the same ancient text differently. Some would try to translate every word, and kinda get the nuance lost in the process... Some would paraphrase it. Some would leave out certain details...

When I first played Oriental Blue, I didn't really like it... But it grew on me the more I played it. I enjoyed the poems and the way it very carefully alludes to the story in the prequel that was planned, but never released.

Tengai Makyou Zero is, in many ways, much lighter and easier than Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai, but that being said, TMZero tackles some subjects that are far more serious than anything presented in Oriental Blue. There is one particular moment late in the game that absolutely shocked me... I won't go into details about it here, though. You'll see it for yourself, eventually... If you're thorough.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: x5t on December 07, 2016, 02:36:52 pm
Hi Tom. Great that FEOEZ seems to move forward at last. I would strongly advise you to ask Nightcrawler. Have a look at what he has said about FEOEZ (quote):

"Few people remain with the skills necessary to do a translation for FEOEZ. I keep hoping someone else will do it and save me the time, but it looks more and more unlikely as time goes on. I am over booked at present, but I will see that this game is translated before I retire. I own a copy of this game too."

Source: http://transcorp.romhacking.net/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229220691/15#15

This post was five years ago. Nightcrawler is an awsome hacker with an outstanding track record. Have a look at his finished projects. Just ask him, maybe he is willing to do it as it seems that work on Heracles 4 is steadily coming to an end. In my eyes he would be the perfect choice. Furthermore Bongo from Dynamic Designs (very active, gets projects done, good quality of hacking) or Lost Templar (impressive work with Arabian Nights!) come to my mind.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on December 07, 2016, 04:21:58 pm
Nightcrawler is skilled indeed but he's also very busy between RL, his translations and keeping up RHDN. I think his last remaining announced translation is Song (Poem?) of the Angel.
Just being honest with you, NC, I guessing that's probably the next couple years of your limited ROM hacking time. :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 07, 2016, 07:13:07 pm
I heard good things about Nightcrawler and Bongo, but I didn't want to insist on anything. How could I suddenly impose on them? I couldn't just send them a message saying... "Hi, you're the one for this job. Forget what you're doing, and put this on the fast track."

I wanted the project to be open to anyone with these three things: the time, the desire, and the ability to work on it. Even if somebody has the desire and the ability to work on the game, if they don't have the time, it's all for naught.

It would just sit unhacked for years again. I don't want that to happen.

It's funny that you mentioned Lost Templar, as he is the one who laid the groundwork for this translation. He expanded the rom, dumped and inserted the script, and got the main font in... Without him, this translation wouldn't exist. He's very busy at the moment, though. Again: time, desire, and ability... He has the desire and the ability, but no time.

Having the chance to work with FlashPV, DougRPG, and ddstranslation has been a really good experience so far. In a short amount of time, they've already made substantial progress. ddstrans' twitter feed shows some good work, and FlashPV and Doug have done great work getting the graphics sorted out. All of the signs in the town are hacked in... The title screen's coming up next! (It's partially done!)

December 12, 2016, 12:29:37 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Update: Totally revised, localized scroll names are in the game now.

(Up until now, it was just romanized Japanese.)

At first, I hesitated to translate them because of the way fusion scrolls work... (Fusion scrolls pair two elemental kanji together, something that doesn't translate well into English.) I solved this by actually blending the English words.

For the single use scrolls, there was VERY limited screen space, since they fit in a very small space (due to the fact that all of them originally consisted of two kanji characters). All of the new names are four to five letters. Sometimes even five letters were too long, depending on the size of the letters.

I had to really rack my brain (and do a few thesaurus checks) to get the coolest sounding word that could convey what each scroll does, while using the fewest possible letters. I managed to do this with NO abbreviations, and it felt great to finally do.

The new names will make it very easy for English speakers to know which spell does what, without having to look at an explanation. They make sense.

Plus, they'll make it much easier to hack the scroll menu. Now, it's just a matter of dummying out the redundant Japanese text and getting rid of memory overruns.

I'm doing my second run through the game in English now, and I've been adding further polish to the formatting. The game will be very nice and neat.

I'm making sure that each window of text holds a complete thought, so you'll never see a line break into a new window just to print a single word, or anything like that.

Going to try to muscle out some further revisions before January, because I want to start working on some other things in the new year... I'm thinking of focusing on two:

(Tengai Makyou Ziria with Esperknight and Zill O'll Infinite Plus with Mugi...)

And then there's DQM1&2 revisions still... And a few other releases scattered about that never got released. The coming year should be an exciting one, though.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 13, 2016, 12:22:04 am
Hacking screenshots/news from DDS twitter (in chronological order) :

Quote
Got Tom's permission to post updates on Tengai Makyou Zero. Started fixing little things, like this clock not counting or displaying right.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy4GNWgWIAY8OTk.jpg)

Quote
Getting a bit closer to a legible almanac. Just gotta clean up the leftover tiles, and figure out what to do with the really long lines

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy5A_apW8AMn9UG.jpg)

Quote
Prototyping screens out and measuring available space. Expanding item names past 8 tiles will require modifying some menus.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzDHDGbXAAM4tTr.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzDHHYgXEAAew_Q.jpg)

Quote
Testing a method to upload tiles to memory, and see how the main menu will look like with an 8x8 font.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzDwqLCXAAQr2Bz.jpg)

Quote
One more screen before I head out of town for the weekend.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzNanClW8AAChKx.jpg)

Quote
Added the commands to the Scrolls menu, and cleaned up the garbage tiles that would appear in the blank spaces.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CziJLx7XcAAttzl.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 13, 2016, 05:39:19 am
Thanks for the summary, Hiei-!

You know, I never expected that the project would be moving this quickly. This project could have been finished years ago.

Although DougRPG and FlashPV have not posted anything online (as far as I know) aside from Doug's text hack image and video, the graphics hacking is proceeding well. The shop signs mostly use unique graphics for each town, so it's not as simple as changing one inn logo and having every other inn in the game display the proper sign. The way the graphics are done require each instance to be encountered in the game, documented and translated individually. Not hard, of course, but it's more work than it could have been.

We've gone with mostly iconic graphics... So weapon shops will have crossed swords... The publishing centers will have a paper and feather pen, the hatchery has an egg... The only exception so far would be the Inn signs. Those are spelled out in English.

Reworking the items and almanac entries will be the main hurdles to overcome (for me, at least). For the moment, I've spent my free time working on perfecting the formatting. I keep hoping that as DDStranslation becomes more familiar with the game, maybe he'll be able to work out a new way to organize the menus that will give the items more breathing room, to avoid too much abbreviation... But I think it's just going to be a matter of cracking down and shortening them with as much care as possible, in the end.

(Many of the item names are quite long, and what's worse, the items are often directly referenced in the script, even in multiple-choice menus...)

The multiple-choice menus that appear in the dialogue windows are VERY finicky. I've got them working now, but they're NOT auto-generated. I had to space the text in the script exactly where the highlights were. Took a lot of trial and error.

Everything works perfectly in the current script, but if I change the length of any of the item names as they appear in the dialogue window to reflect the changes to the item list, I'll need to rework them into those script choices directly. (Not looking forward to that.)

Of course, the in-script references don't need to match up exactly. If, say, the Royal Dragon Longsword was referenced in a choice (it isn't, by the way)... I could theoretically leave the name as that in the dialogue while having the actual item abbreviated (with a sword icon in place of the word longsword, or something to that effect). I'm going to mull this over as I continue my (currently second) playthrough of the English version.

I'd like to hope that DDStranslation could find some work-around by completely changing the interface, but given how interconnected everything is (from changing equipment to selling items), I doubt that's really feasible beyond the number he gave me. He's given me a frame of reference for how short the names need to be, and now it's up to me...

Ahh, editing... The one thing worse than translating boring system and interface text... :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on December 13, 2016, 05:12:29 pm
Yikes, Royal Dragon Longsword is one heck of an item name. I'm not surprised it's too long... Although I'd rather rearrange a menu to fit in full unabbreviated names, I've had to resort of doing double line item hacks in the past. With 12 characters per row, Royal Dragon Longsword would fit that way.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on December 13, 2016, 05:19:58 pm
Looking at some of the previous screens, I'm guessing FEoEZ is one of MANY SNES JRPGs to use 1.5 tile high 8x8 item names (possibly using HDMA to visually squeeze out the remaining 0.5 tile).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 13, 2016, 07:22:12 pm
The problem is, the item names (and descriptions) don't just take up one menu... They are used in multiple, different menus that have different limitations.

There's the general item list, but items also appear in the in-battle menu, the general stats menu, an equipment menu (where equipped weapon names appear to the side of the new equipment), and the sales menu as well...

In many menus, double-line translations are simply not feasible because there's already too much information on the screen. There's simply no room for anything more. Restructuring the menus might squeeze out one or two more letters, at best.

Which means that the items will have to be shortened.

Icons will help a lot, though they haven't been incorporated yet. As much as I can, I will avoid abbreviations... So you won't see anything annoying like RDLngSwrd or anything like that. I would just give the longer items a shorter name with a similar theme, as I did with the scroll names.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on December 13, 2016, 11:39:57 pm
From my side I'll post some news in my twitter:

https://twitter.com/Doug_RPG
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 15, 2016, 01:36:12 am
From Doug :

Quote
New background for the save screen.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzrZdriWEAAvky1.jpg)

Quote
The new font for the title screen.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzsQCzJXEAMB9fv.jpg)

From DDS :

Quote
Item names still need to be finalized, so went back to the Almanac screen. No more garbage tiles and dates/numbers/words display correctly.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzsBAcFUsAA51Ak.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on December 16, 2016, 04:46:54 am
I'm doing the graphic work and Doug insert them back into the Rom so i don't have anything to show  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 17, 2016, 03:58:43 am
FlashPV, you're doing a great job so far. We still haven't scratched the surface, though! There are still a ton of graphics left to translate!

The good news: All items are finalized now. Some of them will use icons as abbreviations when displayed in the small font in menus. (For example, a sword icon instead of the word sword or longsword.) In the item descriptions, the full name of the item will still appear.

Very few changes were necessary with the use of icons, but some items were reworded slightly (without changing the overall meaning)... Instead of having Flowery Earrings (which was just a BIT too long), the name of that item is now Floral Earrings, for instance.

We'll still have to create the icons, though. I'm sure FlashPV can handle that.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on December 19, 2016, 06:09:24 pm
Wow Tom, you made it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on December 19, 2016, 07:38:58 pm
Yeah, thanks for your prodding, dejan07!

The game's intro is now fully running in English, including the battle with the cat! (Check DougRPG's twitter account for that.)

FlashPV finished creating all of the item icons for the small font, which means that all of the items should be displaying properly in the menus soon, once DDStranslation incorporates them.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Kallisto on December 20, 2016, 09:53:41 pm
I understand Tom's frustration to be honest, there has been projects that have been sat on for years with little to no hope of seeing the light of day from many translators, I think it would help to let active translators to take a whack at it instead of it collecting dust, I think RL, and other things have a tendency to creep up on all of us, and passing the torch should always be a option.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 21, 2016, 09:35:04 am
From DDS :

Finishing up the Clock screen, centering the text, and showing the mm-dd-yyyy format as requested by Tom.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzxA4vAUsAAFgEe.jpg)

Repositioning text for the Skill (ougi) menu in combat. Also clears all tiles properly

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz2bj7NXUAE4rfp.jpg)

Expanded the Scrolls combat menu a bit, and added all labels and fixed garbage tiles from appearing now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz_TGufWgAAfpff.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz_THu2WgAAH2sl.jpg)

Testing out a method to upload item names, still need to fix tilemap. Moved some stuff around on Inventory screen to make room.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0Lw_yxXAAAm3FE.jpg)

From Doug/FlashPV :

The cat battle graphics translated (edition by FlashPV). The "VS.", shield and Rumble graphics.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0DjuwpWQAEV6sw.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Gamerhenky on December 21, 2016, 10:15:32 am
Also, cat battle video from DougRPG (i saw it on his Twitter): https://youtube.com/watch?v=XwRM9nLR9EI
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bailli on December 21, 2016, 03:12:49 pm
From DDS :

Finishing up the Clock screen, centering the text, and showing the mm-dd-yyyy format as requested by Tom.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzxA4vAUsAAFgEe.jpg)

Noooooooooo.  ::) Please do not use the horrible (US) date format. Everybody else will get confused by this.
When I read dates (on the internet/in games) I always hope to find one with a day >12 to make sure I get it right...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on December 21, 2016, 05:27:03 pm
I'm okay with the US date format.  ;D
Either way, someone's not going to be happy. Not unless you spell out the month.

Although using the US date format and then 24-hour format is strange. (I'm looking at you, Pokemon Gen 5. Why use 24-hour format in the US and 12-hour in Japan?)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on December 29, 2016, 10:49:00 pm
From DDS :

Worked on the Equipment screen, and moved some fields and cursors around. Still need to fix item names so they don't overwrite each other.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C05N0TNXgAAbDGH.jpg)

January 01, 2017, 11:04:52 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
From DDS :

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1DKd9lVEAAfcsL.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1EEtH_XEAAzriK.jpg)

Item names should appear in dialogue windows correctly now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1EFDA6XUAE35Ap.jpg)

Got item names to show for Inventory in combat, and moved the window for the bookmark names. Item description still needs 24 tiles though.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Ig5tjXAAACHQU.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 02, 2017, 11:46:35 am
Noooooooooo.  ::) Please do not use the horrible (US) date format. Everybody else will get confused by this.
When I read dates (on the internet/in games) I always hope to find one with a day >12 to make sure I get it right...

I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cccmar on January 02, 2017, 12:32:45 pm
I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.

Fahrenheit to Celsius temperature conversion seems somewhat similar. The US is the only country where Fahrenheit's scale is in official use and, even though we Europeans generally know how the Fahrenheit scale works, it just seems out of place somehow. It makes more sense to me that when it's cold you say that it's -10 C for instance than 14-15 F, but perhaps that's just me.

"Officially", like on the weather forecast etc., the temperature is given in Celsius, although the forecaster does give equivalents in Fahrenheit sometimes. We swapped systems a while ago, so there are now quite a lot of people used to both systems, but also quite a few people who refuse to use the "new method." Still, I grew up with the Celsius, so it seems more natural to me. Translators always have it rough, it never rains but it pours. ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 02, 2017, 12:59:21 pm
Fahrenheit to Celsius temperature conversion seems somewhat similar. The US is the only country where Fahrenheit's scale is in official use and, even though we Europeans generally know how the Fahrenheit scale works, it just seems out of place somehow. It makes more sense to me that when it's cold to say that it's -10 C for instance than 14-15 F, but perhaps that's just me.

"Officially", like on the weather forecast etc., the temperature is given in Celsius, although the forecaster does give equivalents in Fahrenheit sometimes. We swapped systems a while ago, so there are now quite a lot of people used to both systems, but also quite a few people who refuse to use the "new method." Still, I grew up with the Celsius, so it seems more natural to me. Translators always have it rough, it never rains but it pours. ;)

You're right, it's all about what you grew up with.

When it comes to punctuation and ordering, it's not a very substantial thing when it all comes down to it... But it's a pet peeve of mine when the units are entirely changed in a way that contradicts the setting. For instance, there's a Japanese comic I read. It was called "Green Blood." It was a cowboy sort of story. The main character was asked how far he would have to travel, and he said something to the effect of "twenty kilometers."

I thought THAT was kind of odd, as no cowboy back in those days would have given the distance in kilometers. I understand that they wanted the Japanese audience to understand the distance, but I think saying "miles" would have been a more immersive experience, even if the actual distance wouldn't be as clear that way. Regardless, it is what it is. I might have even done the same thing in some of my earlier translations, so maybe I shouldn't criticize this sort of style too harshly.

The clock, the grammar, the punctuation (and so-on) aren't really referenced directly in the main dialogue of Tengai Makyou Zero, so they shouldn't be too jarring.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bailli on January 03, 2017, 09:52:08 am
I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.

I totally understand that you chose the US format. I have no problems playing a game using that format, I was simply exaggerating a bit :angel:

Anyway, really nice work from everyone involved. Keep it up :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 03, 2017, 05:58:38 pm
I totally understand that you chose the US format. I have no problems playing a game using that format, I was simply exaggerating a bit :angel:

Anyway, really nice work from everyone involved. Keep it up :beer:

Yeah, I'm really impressed at everyone's rapid progress. At this point, I'm kind of fighting to keep up the pace myself with my revisions! And I regret that I haven't touched the manual translation in ages. Considering that a lot of terminology has changed since I started (like scroll names), that was probably a good idea, though. Now that everything's pretty much finalized, it's a good time to start working on the manual. Still, I want to play through it to make sure that everything's up to snuff for the hackers. It's getting hard to prioritize things, and I really want to start up Zill O'll translation this month as well.

But to bring the discussion back to date order... While going through some of the text about halfway through the game yesterday, I noticed a spot that has iffy formatting when a date is referenced in a conversation. (I sort of can't fix myself, I think it will require some hacking to look decent). There's one character that tells you to return in 48 hours, but she does it by referencing that future date and time through variables.

My style is to spell out numbers whenever feasible in spoken dialogue... So, if I translate a game, the script will generally have something like: "Bring me a thousand pieces of gold." instead of "Bring me 1000 G." (It's just the way I prefer it.)  I'm not insisting that things always have to be spelled out. I'll use numbers in the dialogue when necessary.

However, there's a WIP line that currently reads "Bring me a thousand ryo on day 3 of 2 month, at 3:30 A.M." (Yeah, it's really ugly at the moment, but that'll be changed by the time it's out. It's really just placeholder text.)

The variables that stand for each number are common number variables (A.M. and P.M. are also variables, which makes me think that it might be possible to avoid the use of military time in the final patch. No guarantees, though. I know screen space is already extremely tight.) I'm hoping that DDStranslation will be able to find a way to make these lines look cleaner.

I suppose one way to make it cleaner is to add the year variable. (The character originally gives only the day and month.) If the line said: "Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M." That would look a lot better than "Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10, at 3:30 P.M."

Currently, due to a flub with an overwritten save state, I'm starting over in the second area of the game... (I was halfway through the third area.) Got a lot of catching up to do! It sucks because I JUST got the crane's sword, and now I'm back to garden shears! Argh!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on January 03, 2017, 11:07:35 pm
It is posible to use month abbreviations to avoid confusion?
Instead of:
"Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Something like this:
"Bring me a thousand yen on Oct./3/2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Anyway It seems you guys, have the game almost complete, thanks for everything!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 04, 2017, 03:50:14 am
It is posible to use month abbreviations to avoid confusion?
Instead of:
"Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Something like this:
"Bring me a thousand yen on Oct./3/2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Anyway It seems you guys, have the game almost complete, thanks for everything!

Naturally, that would be ideal, but I believe the variable tags it's using are common "number" tags that are used with other things, not just months. Not saying it isn't possible. Just saying it's not that simple.

It's all up to DDStranslation. All I did was put in the placeholder text and cross my fingers that a good solution will pop up.

Make no mistake, there's still a lot that needs to be done. The almanac is still a bit weird about some entries, and the battle graphics are going to take some collaboration between FlashPV, DougRPG, and DDStranslation (and me) to make a system that works in English.

It might not be THAT hard to work around the issues in the battle system. (They're not THAT bad.) But they will require us all to work together, and all be on the same page about what needs to be done.

For the moment, the four of us have largely been concentrating on our own areas... DDStranslation has been focused on the menus, DougRPG on locating, extracting, and inserting... And FlashPV has been focused on graphics editing.

I think the four of us will need to get together in IRC or something one of these days, but as we're all in different areas of the world, that's easier said than done!

---------------

P.S. I checked DDStranslation's twitter account just now.

https://twitter.com/DDSTrans/status/816543532781633536 (https://twitter.com/DDSTrans/status/816543532781633536)

Looks like he got rid of military time in the main menu. Well done.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 06, 2017, 08:07:36 pm
From DDS :

Converting numerical months to the name of the month in dialogue, as requested by Tom. Also fixed time display

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Y56-iWEAAyp4v.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on January 06, 2017, 08:41:27 pm
Great advancement this one!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tater Bear on January 07, 2017, 01:15:20 am
The publishing centers will have a paper and feather pen...

 Any chance of using a brush and paper? (Too keep with the oriental feel) :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 07, 2017, 06:11:31 am
Any chance of using a brush and paper? (Too keep with the oriental feel) :P

I like this suggestion. Staying true to the setting is important.

I'll ask FlashPV and DougRPG about it. It's more work for them, but we're still pretty early in, so it shouldn't be too much trouble.

Hope you enjoy seeing a brush on the sign when you play the game!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 07, 2017, 10:32:01 am
Really exciting to see each barrier being overcome so quickly with this project. It is almost becoming a comedy routine with Tom mentioning how something will be really difficult to hack and DDS solving it a few hours later. Loving it  :)

Keep up the awesome work guys and a late Happy New Year to you all as well!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 07, 2017, 03:57:52 pm
To be honest, I know next to nothing about how hard something is to hack. I just know that it's complex enough that I can't solve it through creative wording or formatting.

The current display method, as I hear it, is not flawless. It looks fine when the time is 9:28... But because of the way the minute variable is listed in the Japanese script for that line, minutes from 00 to 09 would appear without the zero at the front...

In other words...

January 12
7:8 P.M. (instead of 7:08 P.M.).

DDStranslation is going to try to hack in an extra zero before single digits. There's more work to be done before it's just right! (At the rate he's going, though, he'll make quick work of that, too.)

On my end, I'm going through and testing almanac entries to make sure they don't break the window or crash... I've tested and revised nearly a hundred of them today to make sure they all fit JUST right!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tater Bear on January 08, 2017, 08:00:26 am
Hope you enjoy seeing a brush on the sign when you play the game!

That would be great!!!  :woot!: . Earlier you mentioned swords were also going to be used. Were they going to be in the straight blade style of the "Tsurugi/Ken" or "chokutō" used before the 10th century in Japan or are they based on the curved blades used after the 10th century (Such as the Katana)?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 08, 2017, 10:01:49 pm
They would be tsurugi on the sign. They look the kind of sword Higan carries on his back (albeit shorter). There is also an icon for katana, but it doesn't appear on the shop signs. It appears in the smaller item font, used for katana that had names that were too long to spell out. The size of that tiny font icon is so small that it's not possible to convey that slight sense of curvature for the katana icon, but it gets the point across (also, most items get their names spelled out in the item description, with a few exceptions).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 11, 2017, 01:51:00 pm
Since in-game requests are now in how about hacking in alarm clock to wake me up in the morning? The sound should be the bells from Chrono Trigger!

I will not stop playing this game so why not incorporate this game into my daily routine?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tater Bear on January 11, 2017, 05:16:34 pm
They would be tsurugi on the sign. They look the kind of sword Higan carries on his back (albeit shorter). There is also an icon for katana, but it doesn't appear on the shop signs. It appears in the smaller item font, used for katana that had names that were too long to spell out. The size of that tiny font icon is so small that it's not possible to convey that slight sense of curvature for the katana icon, but it gets the point across (also, most items get their names spelled out in the item description, with a few exceptions).

Thanks for the reply! I look forward to the completion of this translation!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 11, 2017, 10:09:09 pm
Since in-game requests are now in how about hacking in alarm clock to wake me up in the morning? The sound should be the bells from Chrono Trigger!

I will not stop playing this game so why not incorporate this game into my daily routine?

Ha ha!  :thumbsup:

You know, there was a special cart released for Tengai Makyou Zero that had a built-in clock... I doubt it had an alarm in it, but that would have been useful.

There's probably some modder out there that could actually include it!

Thanks for the reply! I look forward to the completion of this translation!!!  ;D

Thank you, too! I'm working hard to make it happen (and DDStranslation is, too!) He doesn't seem to post here, but he's been posting a lot on his twitter account.

Right now, I'm making sure the item/spell descriptions don't break the windows or leave fragments behind, using a very useful character/tile counting tool that DDStranslation made!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 12, 2017, 07:50:59 am
From DDS :

Worked on the shop screen for buying. Moved some labels around, but still feels a bit cramped.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C13t4ppW8AADVAG.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 14, 2017, 01:58:51 am
It feels crammed because of so many Zeros! No pun intended.

If you could remove a zero from the cost on everything it should look much beter aestethically but don't remove the Zero from the title of the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on January 14, 2017, 04:28:26 am
Well to feel lees crammed, my suggestions is: instead of Ryo and icon of a Japanese gold coin could be use,
instead of Att a Sword icon, Def a Shield Icon, Spd a Boot Icon.
BTW the change from numerical month to name of the month was fast, never expect it.
Thanks to everyone involved in this!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 14, 2017, 10:13:18 am
Well to feel lees crammed, my suggestions is: instead of Ryo and icon of a Japanese gold coin could be use,
instead of Att a Sword icon, Def a Shield Icon, Spd a Boot Icon.
BTW the change from numerical month to name of the month was fast, never expect it.
Thanks to everyone involved in this!

Your suggestions for the stat icons were the same as mine, but in the end, FlashPV went with a sword, a shield, and a running man for the three icons! They're already running in the game now!

Ryo, however, will stay spelled out.

January 14, 2017, 10:23:43 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
It feels crammed because of so many Zeros! No pun intended.

If you could remove a zero from the cost on everything it should look much beter aestethically but don't remove the Zero from the title of the game.

Ha!

The ones digit is also used in prices, of course! That store is just near the end of the game, so everything's pricey there.

The ridiculously high prices are only natural. It's actually possible to earn over ten million ryo, at which point the menu will display your cash on hand as "Uncountable ryo." (It will still keep track of the amount properly, up to a certain point... But once you cross ten million, the exact amount will be hidden from you.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 14, 2017, 11:52:34 am
Presumably a 24-bit value. 16 million, 700 thousand-something.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 14, 2017, 11:21:49 pm
Presumably a 24-bit value. 16 million, 700 thousand-something.

You sure do know your values! You're right in the ballpark there!

The secret maximum value for cash on hand is: Sixteen million, seven hundred and seventy seven thousand, two hundred and fifteen ryo!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 15, 2017, 05:03:21 am
From DDS :

Worked on Load menu today, converted date and time, and also incorporated the WIP graphics from @Doug_RPG and FlashPV.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2LbZ8XXcAEowPF.jpg)

From Doug :

The old and new signs for the Fire Bear Shrine.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2E5_jsXgAY3VG2.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2E6DdEWIAESeN-.jpg)

From DDS :

Simple fix to the data initialization screens, for when you don't have the SRAM or RTC files.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2MMcIFW8AEGuo-.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2MMdb6WIAAnIOV.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 15, 2017, 11:42:30 am
I wonder why the first menu makes the player reset the console manually. Can't it just reset itself? (JMP to the Reset vector :P )
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 15, 2017, 01:12:55 pm
I think those icons for the shops are pretty good but maybe it would be better to have the images be just black silhouettes. I think the colors are a little distracting and look too different from the original kanji characters (which are just black instead of multi-colored). Also in most JRPGs I've seen the item shop icon is usually a potion bottle instead of a bag and I'm not quite sure what the paper-and-pen icon is suppose to be. Is it a place to save your game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on January 15, 2017, 06:13:55 pm
I am amazed before the HIGH quality of this great work, guys!  Thanks a huge lot for your effort  :thumbsup: :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 15, 2017, 07:07:37 pm
I think those icons for the shops are pretty good but maybe it would be better to have the images be just black silhouettes. I think the colors are a little distracting and look too different from the original kanji characters (which are just black instead of multi-colored). Also in most JRPGs I've seen the item shop icon is usually a potion bottle instead of a bag and I'm not quite sure what the paper-and-pen icon is suppose to be. Is it a place to save your game?

I understand your concern about the signs, however, there are a few shops in the game that have color on the signs in the original game (certain shops used icons, even in the Japanese version), so this isn't as much of a stretch as you might think.

The item shop is not a potion bottle because there's a bottle used for a medicine shop in another town. There are a wide variety of shops and icons in the game. The bag indicates that the store sells inventory related items... That includes potions, but also things like charms, robes, etc.

The paper and brush is not a save area. That's done in the inns. The paper and brush is actually a place that publishes new articles about what's going on in the nation. Translating the news articles was great... That was one of my favorite parts of the script!

I am amazed before the HIGH quality of this great work, guys!  Thanks a huge lot for your effort  :thumbsup: :beer:

Working on it every day... I have to keep pace with the hacking work, which is absolutely RACING right now! I'm really hoping for a 2017 release for this long overdue game. But even so, we're not cutting ANY corners!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 15, 2017, 07:37:21 pm
Okay, thank you for clarifying and I hope I didn't come off like I was being negative. You guys are doing great work  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 15, 2017, 08:58:26 pm
From DDS :

Worked on the date/time and birthday entry screens, and allow years past 2014. Used the original numerals so the cursor will align properly.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2QO-_ZWQAAKGgI.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 15, 2017, 10:19:50 pm
Okay, thank you for clarifying and I hope I didn't come off like I was being negative. You guys are doing great work  :)

You just care about the game, and you want to make sure that it's done right. That's not being negative at all. That's just being concerned about the quality. It's a positive trait to have.

This is a team effort, and everybody posting here is a part of the team, in a way. Even if people are just here for moral support during the process, that's all part of what makes this fun for me. I welcome all comments, questions, and feedback people have about things! Especially if they make the final release even better!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on January 16, 2017, 03:42:37 am
This has been that one Super Famicom RPG that I have wanted to play for literally years. Since I was a kid in middle school with my 56k modem downloading at 4 kbs. When I first found emulation was a thing man those were the days. First time I got to play Bahamut lagoon, find Final Fantasy V and so on. I am so glad this game is finally being worked on regularly and I wish I knew anything about rom hacking or translation to help but either way I want to thank everybody working on this. Every time I see something new about the project I feel all giddy and nostalgic for the one rpg I fell in love with but had no chance of beating all those years ago due to the language barrier. So far you all have made some great work and I'm excited to see what comes next.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on January 16, 2017, 04:44:15 am
This has been that one Super Famicom RPG that I have wanted to play for literally years. (...)

Me too.

2 games that I always desired to play in English:
Tengai Makyou Zero and Metal Slader Glory Director's Cut.

Keep up the awesome work!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 16, 2017, 08:11:14 am
Ginbun and Cospefogo...

It is kind of baffling that it wasn't translated for all these years. The script wasn't exactly text-heavy, and everything was well-ordered. I understand that the deal with the graphics packs probably threw a damper on things, but that was ironed out well over a decade ago, wasn't it? It's most likely just that most people have never heard of Tengai Makyou Zero.

Ginbunbun, I feel just as giddy as you with every development. I hope the game takes you straight back to middle school, because that's exactly how I feel whenever I play it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 16, 2017, 12:30:16 pm
Ever since I learned about the series (Which I'll probably always call "Far East of Eden") I've always wanted to play the games in English, especially because I do like satire. There was talk that Vic Ireland, now of Gaijinworks absolutely loved "The Apocalypse" game and was really interested in localizing the PSP remake for western audiences, but I don't think that that will ever become a reality. I also know that people have tried to take a crack at this game, before, but any projects prior would stall, which is very unfortunate due to the acclaim that this one game has. I also think that this may be the only Tengai Makyou game not to see a remake besides maybe Kabuki Klash.

The "RPG" is my favorite genre of gaming, especially since I love squeezing out as much dialogue as possible, so it is always great to see a new Super Famicom RPG get the fan translation treatment. Like ginbunbun, I wouldn't mind volunteering for this, but I'm afraid that I would spoil the game for myself, and I am also not technically proficient. I hope to, one day, get on the front-page of this site and see a fully playable translation of this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 12:23:21 am
Merr Man, there's a reason why the game series is not actually called Far East of Eden, and why I hope people will learn and get used to the distinction. (Look on the box of "The Apocalypse," for instance, and you won't find Far East of Eden written anywhere.) That's because it's not based on P.H. Chada's book. The story is that he, the "author" of "Far East of Eden: Ziria" collaborated with the developers to bring his English "book" to Japan in game form, through the Tengai series.

So that's how the Tengai series of games was born. When "Far East of Eden" appears in the title of the game, it means that this particular title was inspired by P.H. Chada's view of Jipang. (Not all of them have this label in the title.)

Since "The Apocalypse" is not about the history of Jipang,  it is not called Far East of Eden. Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai, is also part of the Tengai series, but does not take place in Jipang, and thus does not feature the name Far East of Eden either.

As for "Far East of Eden" games that haven't been remade, there are several... I believe in addition to Zero and Shinden (Kabuki Klash), Tengai Makyou III: Namida (for the PS2) has never been remade. There's also Karakuri Kakutoden, an FMV battler. If you're talking about the whole Tengai series, Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai also hasn't been remade. Of brief mention are Tengai Makyou Jipang Seven (the browser game), and if we're really stretching it, "Same Game," if that even counts. I never played it.

I also have this crazy memory of an iphone exclusive Tengai Makyou game with an original story being released years ago, but I can't find pictures or info about it anywhere... I'm not talking about the Ziria remake for cell phones, but rather another game. Maybe it was just planned and canned?

It's a shame that Gaijinworks never got "The Apocalypse" out. I remember when they teased a PSP game a while back, and it turned out to be Summon Night 5. All of the Tengai fans were disappointed. I suppose Konami's in the way of things, since they own the rights to all of the Hudson games, and we know how they are with their IPs. :(

I was thinking of making a list of things that still remain to be done with the project... Off the top of my head...

1. There's one glitchy text window in the Crane Nation.
2. Graphics after the Peacock Nation are unfinished.
3. Almanac has some issues.
4. Script formatting/revision needs more polish.
5. Battle/Strategy menus need work.
6. Credits aren't working yet.
7. Manual/packaging needs to be fully translated.

There may be more, but these are the biggest things! Judging by DDStranslation's latest twitter post, the initialization and date entry text is completely finished and set to the American date order and time format! Birthdays beyond 1999 are now fully supported, so any teenagers out there who happen to be interested in playing can still play it as intended... I wonder how many teenagers will actually play this, though? Who knows? But they can, if they want to!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 12:44:27 am
This is looking super sharp! I can't wait until this is out.

Do you think it would work on a reproduction cart as well?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 01:13:31 am
This is looking super sharp! I can't wait until this is out.

Do you think it would work on a reproduction cart as well?

In it's current form, I don't think it would work on a reproduction cart, due to the way it uses an xml file to... do something related to the graphics. (Not sure about all of the technical stuff.) I might be wrong. I don't know if the xml file will be required for the final release. There may have also been some sort of special chip needed to get it to run? Maybe it will be perfectly playable on a real system, but I have my doubts. (I'm usually wrong about this sort of thing, though.)

The packaging and manual will be fully translated and made available regardless of whether or not the game can actually be made into a full package. Worst case scenario, you can make a box, manual, and inserts, but put a USB drive inside, instead of a cart. ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 01:31:05 am
I seem to have terrible luck with emulators, so I'm praying that it will work on a cart. Sometimes the games slow down, or they don't save, or they just crash outright. Why does the xml work on Japanese cartridges (i.e. the original release) and not American ones?

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 02:59:47 am
The xml only works on the patched rom, not the original Japanese cartridges. I think i shows where the new graphics are stored, or something. (I might be mistaken.)

If I try to run an unpatched Japanese Tengai Makyou Zero rom with the xml file, I just get a black screen.

And if I try to run the patched Tengai Makyou Zero rom without the xml file, I also get a black screen that way.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 03:07:32 am
Is this the first translation project to require an xml of this variety?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 07:19:56 am
Is this the first translation project to require an xml of this variety?

I don't know if the final release will require the xml, or if it's just something temporary that's used for the WIP.

DDStranslation or DougRPG are more qualified to speak about this than I am. Some of the other hackers here probably know the answer already. I just know that we need it right now, and I don't know if other projects have needed it before. Zero handles graphics in a unique way, from what I've heard. It may be the first to require an xml... Or it may not.

Let's wait and see.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 17, 2017, 10:13:36 am
I wonder how many teenagers will actually play this, though? Who knows? But they can, if they want to!

This is where other followers of this thread can come into play. After the work is done we could make a youtube campaign of promoting the game and the english patch by contacting big youtubers for review and pluging Toms channel or making our own reviews and  videos about the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cccmar on January 17, 2017, 10:24:50 am
This is where other followers of this thread can come into play. After the work is done we could make a youtube campaign of promoting the game and the english patch by contacting big youtubers for review and pluging Toms channel or making our own reviews and  videos about the game.

Just a potential idea - what about a trailer of sorts? It really helped to popularize E.V.O.: The Theory of Evolution. :) Videos would obviously help too, but you know - giving the people something to hype over (when the game's near completion) is always a good idea, marketing-wise.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 17, 2017, 11:26:26 am
Just a potential idea - what about a trailer of sorts? It really helped to popularize E.V.O.: The Theory of Evolution. :) Videos would obviously help too, but you know - giving the people something to hype over (when the game's near completion) is always a good idea, marketing-wise.

"If you build it, they will come."

I wouldn't worry too much about "marketing" the translation, especially before it is finished. I'm sure word will get around once the patch is released.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 17, 2017, 11:42:31 am
and if we're really stretching it, "Same Game," if that even counts. I never played it.

I thought Tengai was a replacement skin sold for the SFC game (along with Mario). It was one of few SFC retail games to use the cart with a Satellaview memory card slot.

Also, is this translation also using an expanded program ROM?
(I know when byuu was working on it, he was going to expand the program ROM from 8 to 16 megabits, for a total ROM size of 48 megabit)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 12:05:05 pm
Thanks for the suggestion, cccmar and dejan. I have a couple of videos with WIP footage of the translation on my youtube channel.

Doesn't really get the word out, though. Where would I even post the video? Here? The people here already know about the project. I tried posting on reddit once (about my footage of the sequel to Soul Hackers), but some of the people there chewed me out for trying to "get hits and make money" by inviting people to check out my translation (even though my Youtube channel is unverified, and thus unmonetized; I'd never give youtube my bank account information). I sorta gave up on reddit after that experience. I also do not have a twitter account, or a facebook account, or whatever people are using these days.

I only have 148 subscribers at the moment, so I'm largely playing to an empty crowd. Even my complete translation for the sequel to Soul Hackers and my Persona 2 Tsumi: Lost Memories footage have gone ignored. I thought THOSE would be popular at least, given how big Megami Tensei is these days, but there really are only a few people watching.

Maybe it's because everyone wants direct-feed, high quality footage, and I'm not equipped to provide that. I can only film with a digital camera. (For some reason, I can't capture video directly from my computer, so I have to use an off-screen camera. I think people get turned off by the poor quality of my videos and ignore them.) On top of that, I have no trailer or image editing skills, and can't make all of those fancy banners and so-on that people make to attract viewers.

The thing is, that sort of thing's not fun for me. The fun is in playing, translating, and sharing my work with others. Making trailers, trying to spread the word... That part's worse than translating system text! The videos that I have were flat-out BORING to make, and I think the boredom comes through in the videos themselves.

That said, my old Tengai Makyou Zero intro footage is my most watched video, with about 1,800 views since July of last year. (Over half of those views are from Brazil!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0MTxz8pXzs

In any case, I don't expect it will develop even HALF of the following of EVO: The Theory of Evolution.

EVO: The Theory of Evolution is a prequel to a relatively well-known SNES era action RPG. EVO has a cult following in English already. (Well deserved, too! The game was a blast!) Tengai Makyou has pretty much ZERO English following in comparison. Only people into really obscure games have heard about it, and only a small portion of those people are actually interested in playing a patch. For many of them, I suppose it will just be a... "Huh... So they released a patch for it..." kind of reaction. It means just about as much to them as... I don't know, Idea no Hi, or GD Leen, or whatever other obscure untranslated Japanese SFC RPGs are out there.

But the patch will be there for those select few who really know their games. :)

The light at the end of the tunnel is that one big Youtuber (one of my favorites), Happy Console Gamer, is a big fan of the Tengai Makyou series, and he came across my video somehow. He left a nice comment. It's possible that he could spread the message about the patch when it comes out, but who knows? That's entirely up to him.

And King Mike, you're right. I believe "Same Game" (that looks so weird, in English) had an upgrade slot that could be outfitted to add Tengai Makyou content, or something. I think that still counts, if only slightly. It's SOMETHING, anyway.

The rom is expanded, yes... Actually, I believe Lost Templar had already expanded the rom before byuu even committed to it, because the rom I was working with had already been expanded, before DDStranslation and DougRPG started hacking into it. Maybe that's why it needs an xml?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: MatatabiMitsu on January 17, 2017, 12:20:11 pm
Sign up on Something Awful and post a screenshot Let's Play. The games popularity will explode. It's happened multiple times before. Just make sure to lurk and learn how to make an acceptable screenshot LP or you might not get many views. It's 100x easier (though more time consuming) than trying to make a good video LP. And even if you can't get video you can get screenshots right?

Plus if you have a full script in hand it'll make doing a screenshot LP laughably easy. No transcribing required.

This isn't a joke suggestion. Dangan Ronpa got localized because SA lit the whole internet on fire about it. It has a lot more pull in the Internet in general than you might think.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 12:44:44 pm
I don't really want to spoil it for people by showing them the entire game. I think it would them of the experience of playing through it themselves. It's one thing to show a picture here and there, but I wouldn't want to put the whole thing out there. I was even sort of reluctant to show the footage of the game that I did upload. I just figured that it was better than nothing.

That won't be the case for Tengai Makyou Zero. The patch will be out there for people who want it. For the people who don't care, well, that's okay. I don't demand that it be made popular. I mainly want fans of the game to be able to enjoy it in English after all these years! If there are some new fans too, that'd be great, but the series is kinda dead anyway. It's not like the new fans have much else to play in the series, aside from maybe Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai and Kabuki Klash...

It's a little sad that only these side-games in the series have been translated. (Well, Zero was intended to be a reboot rather than a side-game, but you know what I mean...) I hope to translate Ziria next, even if it's not the most interesting game in the series. (I have already translated a portion of it, actually.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: sillik on January 17, 2017, 02:21:57 pm
Good luck on the project, I'm looking forward to when the whole Tengai Makyou series will be translated. :)
Are there a lot of references to other TM games, which we won't get if we play Zero first?

Quote
I hope to translate Ziria next, even if it's not the most interesting game in the series. (I have already translated a portion of it, actually.)

Some time ago I stumbled on this Ziria translation topic on the PC Engine FX forums:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18443.0
Not sure if the project is still active.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 17, 2017, 03:34:12 pm
Quote
DDStranslation or DougRPG are more qualified to speak about this than I am. Some of the other hackers here probably know the answer already. I just know that we need it right now, and I don't know if other projects have needed it before. Zero handles graphics in a unique way, from what I've heard. It may be the first to require an xml... Or it may not.

Right now the only emulator compatible with this translation is Bsnes/Higan. Emulators in general must know the game's memory map to be able to run the game properly. Snes emulators has heuristics to guess the correct memory map. Emulators like Snes9x, Zsnes, etc, do this stuff internally, doing several calculations to guess the correct way to run the game. Most official games has 4MB or less, and 8KB Sram or less, so if your hack fall in this subset then your game will work fine in any emulator.
But some games has enhanced chips with custom mapping, or more Sram or Rom than normal. In this cases the emulators supports only the official releases, sometimes even checking the game's checksum to know what map to use. So if you are doing a translation or hack and change some memory stuff, like expanding the Rom, the Sram, etc, the game sometimes won't work because the emulator don't know what to do. In these cases you need to recompile the emulator adding the new mapping.

But Bsnes/Higan has a very nice feature where you can create a xml manifest where you put your custom mapping. This way the emulator will use this custom mapping to load the game.

This was necessary in Feoez because the game was expanded. This game uses the SPC7110 so it's not a normal game, so the xml contains the information about the expanded memory. This way Bsnes will know where to put the data in the Snes memory map.

The translation will be 100% compatible with the real hardware, but the game was expanded, so to play in the real hardware, like a flash card, you'll need a custom firmware, with this new mapping added. I don't know if flashcards like Sd2snes supports custom maps like Bsnes manifests. If yes, the it will be very simple to run the game in the real hardware. Otherwise the flashcard manufacturers will need to release a compatible firmware.

Again, the game is 100% compatible with hardware, so the developers at the time could have created a cartridge with this translated version. But now in 2017 this is a complicating factor because you'll need to change current sofware (emulator, firmware, etc) just for this translation.

About other emulator I have here a Snes9x version that I recompiled to test the game:

(https://s30.postimg.org/dsczgcg0x/filter.png)

As you can see it's using Snes9x 1.54.1. I can release this version when Tom release the translation. Sometime in the future the official version can add the new mapping.

About Zsnes I don't know what can be done. The same goes to other emulators. But it's very easy to add the mapping, so it's only a matter of recompile the emulator.


Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 04:55:12 pm
The translation will be 100% compatible with the real hardware, but the game was expanded, so to play in the real hardware, like a flash card, you'll need a custom firmware, with this new mapping added. I don't know if flashcards like Sd2snes supports custom maps like Bsnes manifests. If yes, the it will be very simple to run the game in the real hardware. Otherwise the flashcard manufacturers will need to release a compatible firmware.

Again, the game is 100% compatible with hardware, so the developers at the time could have created a cartridge with this translated version. But now in 2017 this is a complicating factor because you'll need to change current sofware (emulator, firmware, etc) just for this translation.

How do you get this custom firmware onto the cartridge?

My bad if that's a dumb question. My hardware knowledge is extremely limited, so to speak.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 17, 2017, 05:00:12 pm
How do you get this custom firmware onto the cartridge?

My bad if that's a dumb question. My hardware knowledge is extremely limited, so to speak.

I'm talking about flashcards. Flashcard is a special cartridge where you put the game in an SD card, for example. This way you can play in the real console.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 17, 2017, 06:50:46 pm
So whenever people use the title "Far East of Eden" to describe the series, it's actually the title of the satirical meta-book and not even a translation of the series' name itself, which seems to translate to "Irregular History" which, I guess, wouldn't be as catchy, though I guess that it is due to my native tongue that I like to refer to the series that I know about in English, except for ones like Seiken Densetsu (Sorry if it seems run-on). Guess I'll just call it the Tengai Makyou series as normalized.

Yeah, I've heard of those other TM games, because of that game on the PS2, and Ziria on the XBox 360 (of all places). Because of the recent releases, relatively speaking, I do hope that you all won't have to do all of the work to translate all of the entries in the series, or whoever may be interested in doing so, but aside from Kabuki Klash even the advent of the JRPG in the west wasn't enough to localize any entries for English-comfortable audiences, would they think that it would offend westerners, especially Americans? I would love to play "Apocalypse" no matter what. Is the satire strong, in at least Zero? 

If you've played through enough of TM, what would you say is the best entry in the series?

As far as promotion and hype, I've actually felt that some of the suggestions and commentary are very much in with what I would have to say. We need more translators and helpers so that I won't have to see an older Japanese-only game and go "Why can't I play it in English?". There was even a region locked DYKG episode where they went into a Gamefreak JRPG that was never localized, and all I could see is exactly what I would say. It wouldn't just be exposure to a new game and patch, but to a hobby that could enrich the greater umbrella of the hobby of gaming. Sometimes web sites like Siliconera and Destructoid will run articles on new fan translations, so there's at least something out there to help.




Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 17, 2017, 07:55:53 pm
This was necessary in Feoez because the game was expanded. This game uses the SPC7110 so it's not a normal game, so the xml contains the information about the expanded memory. This way Bsnes will know where to put the data in the Snes memory map.

I don't believe it is necessary. I proposed a mapping that would be compatible with the original cart, as well as already work with existing emulators back in 2012. But, byuu shot it down and insisted on doing things the BSNES locked-in way instead on grounds of needing more space for some super secret translation feature that never took place.

As it stands now, no flash carts, or emulators will play this. Only BSNES/higan (and probably only certain versions that are compatible with that particular version of the manifest file).  :'(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Isao Kronos on January 17, 2017, 08:15:54 pm
>only BSNES/HIGAN

welp time to start a riot, i refuse to use an emulator that will slideshow on my 9 year old computer
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2017, 08:32:02 pm
Yeah, Merr Man... It's one of those "All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats," sort of thing. All Far East of Eden titles are Tengai Makyou, but not all Tengai Makyou titles are Far East of Eden. People interested in Apocalypse in particular should be aware of this distinction.

That said, how to translate the titles is entirely up to the translator. For instance, if you buy the PSN versions, and your PS3/PSP/Vita is set to English, the names of the games will appear as "Far East of Eden: Ziria" and "Far East of Eden: Manjimaru." I can't say I agree with this translation. I feel it ignores the context and backstory of the name, but translations will always have points of contention, won't they?

You asked if Zero was as satirical as Zero. Let me say that Zero is certainly not as satirical as Apocalypse. It's played relatively straight in comparison. Apocalypse has goofy moments coming at you left and right. Zero looks bright and colorful, and certainly has some very light moments, but for the most part, it's a classic RPG story. I suppose the closest game to Apocalypse is Fuun Kabukiden.

That said, there are reasons why Tengai Makyou Zero would not have been released in America, at least not without censorship. There are several parts that would just not fly. They would even be considered taboo by today's standards, let alone back in the day.

At any rate, aside from the name of the hero's clan, and one (relatively meaningless) cameo by one of the characters from the second Tengai Makyou game, there are practically no references to the earlier games in the series. It was intended to be a reboot, since most Nintendo fans in that day had not played the PC Engine games. The game, much like Apocalypse, was made with people who've never played a Tengai series game before in mind.

My favorite game in the series is Apocalypse. (Zero's #2!) The battle system in Apocalypse is... Well, not as good as the beautiful battle screenshots might suggest, but the world itself is hilarious and unforgettable. (The battle system was improved slightly in the PSP remake.) Most Japanese fans believe that Manjimaru is the best.

My least favorite is Tengai Makyou III: Namida. The battles are pretty fun and refreshing, letting you swat your way through hordes of enemies, but the graphics are ugly, and the world seems really desolate and lifeless.

Zero probably has the best pacing in the series. It doesn't require much in the way of grinding. So long as you're thorough about exploration, you'll be able to proceed at a steady pace without much trouble. That said, there's nothing that redefines the genre here. It's a classic style orthodox JRPG, which is something of a lost art in this day and age.

I suppose that if younger gamers were exposed to these games, it might open the door to the joys of an old-fashioned JRPG. In the end, I hope lots of people play it, but I'm expecting that it will be largely ignored, despite how great the game is.

And Doug, thanks for the explanation. I understand the situation more too, now.

Nightcrawler, if there's some way to map it to be more compatible, go ahead and contact DDStranslation/DougRPG about it! That'd be great!

But in any case, it's not true that no other emulators will be able to play it. DougRPG just showed the translation working on SNES9X with modification already. It would probably just take one small update to the official release.

A different version of the manifest will be needed for Higan, but I'm sure DougRPG or DDStranslation will be able to make it when the time comes.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 08:42:57 pm
I'm talking about flashcards. Flashcard is a special cartridge where you put the game in an SD card, for example. This way you can play in the real console.

SNES consoles (as in, the one I still have in my room dating back to 1993) could play these flashcards?

Again, sorry if my questions sound dumb. :(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mz on January 17, 2017, 08:59:37 pm
That's exactly what they were made for...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 17, 2017, 09:01:25 pm
I don't believe it is necessary. I proposed a mapping that would be compatible with the original cart, as well as already work with existing emulators back in 2012. But, byuu shot it down and insisted on doing things the BSNES locked-in way instead on grounds of needing more space for some super secret translation feature that never took place.

As it stands now, no flash carts, or emulators will play this. Only BSNES/higan (and probably only certain versions that are compatible with that particular version of the manifest file).  :'(

Hi Nightcrawler... I understand your concern but Tom gives the shots here, not Byuu.

Byuu and LostTemplar did the right thing about the expansion. There is no secret here. The game only has 1MB of "cpu rom" so it was expanded to 2MB, and in the right way.
We can expand the SPC7110 data block too, and there is only one way to do that. And the expansion was needed because the new script size.

And there is no such thing like "BSNES locked-in way". Bsnes is the emulator that gives you the most freedom among all Snes emulators. The philosophy is just contrary to "lock-in" implementation. This manifest feature is amazing because gives you complete control over the Snes memory map. You can do whatever you want.

People complains about the folder method used by Bsnes/Higan, but this is another amazing feature after you look at it. It's even better for debugging. I use the v086 debugger and this folder stuff is just amazing. All debugging files are completely organized and keep saved among debugging sessions. Far ahead other debuggers.
And it's all open source, with very good code. So you can add any features you want easilly just implementing directly in the code. I did a lot of modifications and added some new features in the debugger while working in Feoez.

Bsnes/Higan doesn't have a lot of features like other emulators, like video recorder, video filters, etc, but for debugging, testing, etc, it's the best choice (to me).

I'm not advocating in Byuu's favor, but I think I got used to how Bsnes works. Today I think it's impossible to me to work with Geiger again. But it's only me, other people may think Bsnes is shitty. No problem with that.

Quote
As it stands now, no flash carts, or emulators will play this. Only BSNES/higan (and probably only certain versions that are compatible with that particular version of the manifest file).

Yes, but the problem here is the SPC7110. The expansion is very simple, like the expansion of any other game, but because we have the SPC7110 the emulators will need some patch. Snes9x for example checks for the SPC7110 and uses a custom map if it's found, so we don't have control to make it to work, so we need to release a new version.

If you have another method to map new space please let us know. But I think the game is already expanded in the right way, but who knows? But only using the original size is out of question, because the translation really needs extra space.
I think the most important thing for a translation is to be 100% compatible with the real hardware, and currently the game is. If it needs to change a lot of software to be able to play this translation, so be it, because it's a price to pay to play the game in english.

Like I said if you have suggestions please let us know. I think we are all willing to receive suggestions and implement it if it's worth of it. I think Tom's intention is to release the best translation possible. Like I said Tom gives the shots here (not Byuu) and he is very open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 17, 2017, 10:06:59 pm
That's exactly what they were made for...

I'm guessing this is a response to me?

I can't tell.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 17, 2017, 10:37:01 pm
I don't believe it is necessary. I proposed a mapping that would be compatible with the original cart, as well as already work with existing emulators back in 2012. But, byuu shot it down and insisted on doing things the BSNES locked-in way instead on grounds of needing more space for some super secret translation feature that never took place.
I assumed his "super secret" was using pre-rendering the VWF item names, etc. as graphics instead of rendering them at runtime.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 17, 2017, 10:55:01 pm
I assumed his "super secret" was using pre-rendering the VWF item names, etc. as graphics instead of rendering them at runtime.

It's not a secret. He even released an article talking about this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130121234738/http://byuu.org/articles/hacking/proportional-fonts

Edit: Ah, sorry, it's not about Vwf. But good reading anyways  :happy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 17, 2017, 11:33:52 pm
To Tom,

OK, I figured that out about Apocalypse, considering it spoofs the US. Just read about Fuun Kabukiden, so I wonder what they do with England in that game. Interesting.

The way you describe Zero's playstyle and ranking on your list....it makes a lot of sense that you're working on this one. I've even read somebody say, sometime ago, that they actually liked Zero over FFVI which boggles the mind, and FFVI is no.2 or 3 in my favorite games of all time! And more Apocalypse hype! I can't wait to play these games for the very first time, though I do wonder which version of Manjimaru may get fan translated down the line....ponderances, what ponderances.

Being always interested in traditionalist JRPGs, especially for the Super Famicom/SNES, I don't mind not reinventing the wheel.

In closing, so that I don't derail this thread, I've always found it interesting the projects that you all pick out. It's not always what is "popular" or what is "cool" but really is more like "you've got to play this!" which is awesome! Even if it doesn't become a huge thing, if I talk to anyone about video games, this game may come up in some way, shape or form and it may lead a few people to try it out.

Anyways, I feel like I have many more questions, but I don't want to interfere with your work, and I am grateful that you've responded to me.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 18, 2017, 03:49:46 am
I was a little sad to find this out, but Apocalypse is not all that popular in Japan. A lot of people in Japan complain that the heroine is too plain-looking, and the battle system is boring, and it's not like the classic Tengai series games, and all of that.

I read a Japanese review that said something about Zero that stayed with me... It said, "You'll enjoy the whole experience, but when you sit back and ask yourself, 'What made this game so good?' you'll be unable to say why."

I can't really say why Zero's a great game. Certainly, it has unique things about it, like the real time clock and such, but those things aren't WHY the game is great. In the end, I think the world is just really unique and charming. That's the closest I can come to an answer.

Will people like it more than FF6? That's a matter of tastes. Maybe people who are into stats, leveling, equipment and such will like FF6 more since the battles are more involved. In comparison, you can pretty easily turn off your brain in Zero. There's even a very effective "strategy" system where you can set four customizable auto-battle strategies and easily swap between them in battle, letting you win most battles pushing a button only a couple of times.

Of course, if you don't play RPGs for the battle system, but rather the story and world, it's perfectly okay to prefer Zero. As much praise as Kefka gets, I found him to lack any real motivation as a villain. He had personality in spades, but in the end, they just passed his evilness off as "he just went crazy," which feels a little lazy to me. Zero's villains, with maybe the exception of the first boss, are relatively complex. There's often a level of sympathy and depth given to them.

When it comes to Manjimaru, there's only one answer as to which version should be translated. The PC Engine original. It's the only uncensored release. Even the PC Engine PSN port was censored. They rendered the Kinu's rage scene nearly nonsensical, when it used to be shocking. It is relatively tame in every re-release.

Whatever questions you have, feel free to ask. I'm making progress with the game every day, regardless of these posts. They're not taking time away from the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on January 18, 2017, 04:11:40 am
Really psyched to see this project alive and kicking again! I've been interested in playing this title since the initial emulation using the graphics packs was implemented, so basically for the last... 16 years. A lot has changed since then, but I'm still looking forward to playing this gem. This and G.O.D. are probably the last two SNES rpgs that have me genuinely intrigued and wanting to play them. Keep up the good work, everyone!

SNES consoles (as in, the one I still have in my room dating back to 1993) could play these flashcards?

Again, sorry if my questions sound dumb. :(

A flashcard is essentially a special cartridge which enables you to play roms from a memory card on a real console. As far as the console is concerned, it's just another game, so no extra support is needed from the original hardware. You just need to put your roms on an SD card, insert it into the flashcard, then use that with your console. With most games it's as simple as that.

That being said, Tengai Makyou Zero is a special case. The translation uses a special memory map, which won't be supported out-of-the-box. However, a bigger issue is that the original cartridge had a special chip called the SPC7110, used for decompressing in-game graphics and the real-time clock. Most flashcards simply don't have the means to support it. Just about the only one that could support it is the sd2snes, according to an earlier post (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,13982.msg206056.html#msg206056). However, the support isn't there yet (https://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility). Another option would be to replace the memory chip on the original cartridge and do some rewiring for the expansion to work. However, this would require destroying an original Tengai Makyou Zero cart and those aren't exactly cheap or easy to come by.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 18, 2017, 05:54:14 am
A flashcard is essentially a special cartridge which enables you to play roms from a memory card on a real console. As far as the console is concerned, it's just another game, so no extra support is needed from the original hardware. You just need to put your roms on an SD card, insert it into the flashcard, then use that with your console. With most games it's as simple as that.

That being said, Tengai Makyou Zero is a special case. The translation uses a special memory map, which won't be supported out-of-the-box. However, a bigger issue is that the original cartridge had a special chip called the SPC7110, used for decompressing in-game graphics and the real-time clock. Most flashcards simply don't have the means to support it. Just about the only one that could support it is the sd2snes, according to an earlier post (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,13982.msg206056.html#msg206056). However, the support isn't there yet (https://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility). Another option would be to replace the memory chip on the original cartridge and do some rewiring for the expansion to work. However, this would require destroying an original Tengai Makyou Zero cart and those aren't exactly cheap or easy to come by.

That deflates my hopes somewhat.

What are the chances that this will eventually work on a reproduction cart?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on January 18, 2017, 07:19:25 am
As you can read in the old post I've linked to, a repro cart is feasible. It's just it might be a bit hard to find donor carts due to the special chip inside. Maybe someone will do it or maybe sd2snes will receive SPC7110 support once the translation is released. You'll just have to wait and see. Playing using emulation seems like the only feasible choice in the short term.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on January 18, 2017, 09:29:44 am
As you can read in the old post I've linked to, a repro cart is feasible. It's just it might be a bit hard to find donor carts due to the special chip inside. Maybe someone will do it or maybe sd2snes will receive SPC7110 support once the translation is released. You'll just have to wait and see. Playing using emulation seems like the only feasible choice in the short term.
I have asked Ikari the person who makes the firmware for the SD2SNES about this game if it will be supported. Funny enough the real time clock the sd2snes uses is based on the code for the spc7110. So yeah support for this game on sd2snes is pretty much guaranteed.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on January 18, 2017, 09:47:11 am
I have asked Ikari the person who makes the firmware for the SD2SNES about this game if it will be supported. Funny enough the real time clock the sd2snes uses is based on the code for the spc7110. So yeah support for this game on sd2snes is pretty much guaranteed.

Good to know. However, the real-time clock is only one part of the puzzle. The decompression feature of the SPC7110 is the other crucial part. Since the inner workings of the chip are pretty well documented, it all boils down to whether the FPGA can handle it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 18, 2017, 11:38:44 am
I hope we can play it on regular repro carts too, since SD2SNES is way out of my price range at the moment.

Although maybe that will change by the time the translation is done. :D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 18, 2017, 05:55:07 pm
I was a little sad to find this out, but Apocalypse is not all that popular in Japan. A lot of people in Japan complain that the heroine is too plain-looking, and the battle system is boring, and it's not like the classic Tengai series games, and all of that.

[...]

When it comes to Manjimaru, there's only one answer as to which version should be translated. The PC Engine original. It's the only uncensored release.

I was surprised by the lukewarm reaction to Apocalypse as well. Im speaking out of my ass here, but I think when looking at how America is poked at and interpreted, I think it simply clicks better with Western fans because of that curiosity and that pre-established connection with the locale. Its an exotic enough setting for Japanese fans I bet like World Masterpiece Theater stuff is, but they probably cling more to the ol' Umashikanojo jokes and ehat theyre familiar with too. In a way I think thats why Zengo is by far the most developed character in the game than any other character.

I do gotta disagree with the pc engine being the only reasonable port. I agree that censorship is a nono, but the NDS version is the most playable option as it comes with all the subtitles during the cutscenes which to my knowledge no other available version has. Uncensoring it might be a stretch given how the port was made, but even as a tool for comparison I think its a viable option.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 18, 2017, 06:18:58 pm
Tom,

I think that in this post-Earthbound phase, I wouldn't be surprised if an available version of "Apocalypse" in English actually can get a greater cult following in the west. It's so uncommon, though not rare, to play a game that has such a strange sense of humor, and may actually make me chuckle at moments, which is maybe why Vic Ireland was interested in the game.

OK, thank you for the response. Does P.H. Chada ever appear in the series, or is referenced to like peeling back an imaginary fourth wall? Also how would you rate Kabuki as a hero? He's one of the most present characters in the series, right?

Sometimes, I like just jumping into a RPG, especially if I'm in the middle of it and it's not story heavy, and just grinding through battles over and over while something else is playing in the background, it's like a task that requires you to lose your brain as you escape. Nice to also hear about the villains, I loved Kefka and Luca Blight but just because someone has more character doesn't make them bad, so I'll be looking forward to them.

Personally, I'd prefer the DS version as it would be the easiest to play with a fan translation, if the quality is still high, than I would vouch for that one.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 18, 2017, 06:46:50 pm
But in any case, it's not true that no other emulators will be able to play it. DougRPG just showed the translation working on SNES9X with modification already. It would probably just take one small update to the official release.

There was about 4 years between the latest release of SNES9x (1.54) and the previous release, (1.53), and about 2 years between 1.53 and 1.52. Even if you somehow succeed with a timely SNES9x official release, that's still just 2 emulators and a single flavor nonetheless (there are many versions of SNES9x). Knowing this, I would have done it in a compatible manner so it works with the existing emulators. I like to reach as wide an audience as possible, and give people options with my releases. That's just me I guess. *shrug*


Byuu and LostTemplar did the right thing about the expansion. There is no secret here. The game only has 1MB of "cpu rom" so it was expanded to 2MB, and in the right way.
We can expand the SPC7110 data block too, and there is only one way to do that. And the expansion was needed because the new script size.

The existing mapping already allows for a meg expansion (half is accessible) that also works on the original cart and SNES9x already. It probably works on other emulators too, but I don't have notes on that.  Do it however you'd like. No skin off my back. It's just a shame to have no way to run on real hardware nor run on any other official emulators when not necessary. So, I figured I'd offer another option.

Quote
Yes, but the problem here is the SPC7110. The expansion is very simple, like the expansion of any other game, but because we have the SPC7110 the emulators will need some patch. Snes9x for example checks for the SPC7110 and uses a custom map if it's found, so we don't have control to make it to work, so we need to release a new version.

As mentioned, the existing SNES9x already maps the additional free space that is also compatible with the real cart adding two wires. 90-9f:8000-FFFF.

I have asked Ikari the person who makes the firmware for the SD2SNES about this game if it will be supported. Funny enough the real time clock the sd2snes uses is based on the code for the spc7110. So yeah support for this game on sd2snes is pretty much guaranteed.

While Ikari did a great thing with designing the SD2SNES, unfortunately he has not been able to add any new special chip support in the past several years. SuperFX for instance has been in progress for years now. I don't see adding the SPC7110 decompression engine in the foreseeable future. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 18, 2017, 08:28:45 pm
Vic Ireland

Between the hamfisted Bill Clinton jokes and randomly farting NPCs present in the game, he would have his work cut out for him.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 18, 2017, 08:32:09 pm
Quote
The existing mapping already allows for a meg expansion (half is accessible) that also works on the original cart and SNES9x already. It probably works on other emulators too, but I don't have notes on that.  Do it however you'd like. No skin off my back. It's just a shame to have no way to run on real hardware nor run on any other official emulators when not necessary. So, I figured I'd offer another option.

Nightcrawaler, could you check that again? I think you are mistaken, but you could please tell what this "meg expansion" in Snes9x is? The game maps the 1M cpu data to c0-cf. At d0-ff we have the SPC7110 rom data mapped, so we cannot use an extra MB there. 50-5f is used by the SPC7110, so we cannot use that too.
We have 11.9MB to use in the Snes memory map, and the games already uses 5MB (c0-cf, d0-ff and 50-5f). So we still have 6,9MB to use: 00h-3Fh:8000h-FFFFh (2MB), 40h-4Fh:0000h-FFFFh (1MB), 60h-7Dh:0000h-FFFFh (1,9MB) and 80h-BFh:8000h-FFFFh (2MB).
So what region Snes9x is using for this extra MB?

I read Snes9x code and seems that it's only using the c0-cf region for the cpu rom:

Code: [Select]
void CMemory::Map_SPC7110HiROMMap (void)
{
printf("Map_SPC7110HiROMMap\n");
map_System();

map_index(0x00, 0x00, 0x6000, 0x7fff, MAP_HIROM_SRAM, MAP_TYPE_RAM);
map_hirom(0x00, 0x0f, 0x8000, 0xffff, CalculatedSize);
map_index(0x30, 0x30, 0x6000, 0x7fff, MAP_HIROM_SRAM, MAP_TYPE_RAM);
map_index(0x50, 0x50, 0x0000, 0xffff, MAP_SPC7110_DRAM, MAP_TYPE_ROM);
map_hirom(0x80, 0x8f, 0x8000, 0xffff, CalculatedSize);
map_hirom_offset(0xc0, 0xcf, 0x0000, 0xffff, CalculatedSize, 0);
map_index(0xd0, 0xff, 0x0000, 0xffff, MAP_SPC7110_ROM,  MAP_TYPE_ROM);

map_WRAM();

map_WriteProtectROM();
}

Are you talking about these 00h-0fh:8000h-FFFFh and 80h-8fh:8000h-FFFFh?
I think it's not doing what you are saying. It's only mapping the first 512KB to 00-0f and 80-8f.

By the way, you only need to add one line in this function to make this translation to work.

Quote
It's just a shame to have no way to run on real hardware nor run on any other official emulators when not necessary. So, I figured I'd offer another option.

Again, I said several times that the translation is 100% compatible with the real hardware. So you can play in any emulatior (adding the cartridge mapping), any flashcard compatible with Feoez (and the new cartridge mapping) and even do a repro cart, like LostTemplar said in the post linked by Mziab.

Expanding a rom doesn't make a game incompatible with real hardware. You can expand a Snes cart to 1TB if you want, assuming the cartridge has the correct mapping hardware, and it still will be 100% compatible with console hardware.

Cartridge hardware and console hardware are two separate things. You can do whatever you want in the cartridge hardware, like Nintendo did several times, with several enhanced chips.
What makes a game not compatible with hardware is something that the console hardware doesn't support, like a Super Mario Hack trying to write to Vram outside the Vblank. It's only work in Zsnes because it's not emulation the console hardware correctly.



Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 18, 2017, 08:55:41 pm
When it comes to DS/GC/PS2/PSN ports of Manjimaru, I can't approve of the censored versions at all. Certainly subtitles can be hacked into the PC Engine release? The smart thing to do would be to extract the subs from the DS release, translate those, and then have the hacker add them to the uncensored PC Engine release.

Regarding the "easiest to play" comment, I have to disagree there as well. Playing a patched rom of a DS game requires either a flashcart or a VERY powerful computer for DS emulation, and I have neither of those.

The PC Engine release, on the other hand, can very easily be patched into the Tengai Makyou Collection PSP release (actually, ANY PC Engine game can). PSP emulation runs at much lower specs than the DS , and it's easier to play on a real PSP - you don't even need a flashcart. More people will be able to play it that way... And they'd be playing the uncensored version!

(In fact, my goal is to translate all of the Tengai Makyou PC Engine releases and put them into the PSP Collection for the ultimate Tengai Makyou experience!)

Merr Man: P.H. Chada only appears in the manuals of the games. He appears in every manual, and even has a guest comment in the Saturn manual for Apocalypse saying that he's happy to see a Japanese interpretation of America, his own country. (I believe that the PSP manual for Apocalypse doesn't feature any comments from him, but I'd have to go through my closet to check on that.)

As a hero, Kabuki is very memorable, but he's also selfish and a little stupid. He's not entirely reliable, and seems more interested in living it up with the ladies. I think that's why people love him so much. (That and his cool hair.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on January 18, 2017, 10:07:14 pm
It's a little sad that only these side-games in the series have been translated. (Well, Zero was intended to be a reboot rather than a side-game, but you know what I mean...) I hope to translate Ziria next, even if it's not the most interesting game in the series. (I have already translated a portion of it, actually.)

It would be lovely to see more PC Engine translations!  8)


Some time ago I stumbled on this Ziria translation topic on the PC Engine FX forums:
...
Not sure if the project is still active.

I've poked SamIAm (the translator on that project), and he'll respond here if he wishes to.

But my personal take on it is (which you should take with a grain-of-salt) ... EsperKnight is too busy working in real-life to do translations anymore, and SamIAm passed all of the work that he'd done to Tom ages ago, deciding that Tom has a much-greater passion for this particular series of games, and is the better guy to work on them (as most folks here know, this kind of translation takes a lot of hard work, and a passion for the game in order to sustain the desire to do that work).

<edit>

Sorry, Tom, I misread the thread on PCEFX and got it the wrong way around!  :-[


When it comes to DS/GC/PS2/PSN ports of Manjimaru, I can't approve of the censored versions at all. Certainly subtitles can be hacked into the PC Engine release? The smart thing to do would be to extract the subs from the DS release, translate those, and then have the hacker add them to the uncensored PC Engine release.

It's a nice thought ... but may well not be practical if you wish to end up with a translation that plays on original hardware.

SamIAm and I have considered exactly that question when it comes to the "Legend of Xanadu" translations.

In your case ... if you're only translating Ziria, and not Manjimaru, then you can base your translation on the CD (not SuperCD) version, and at-least have lots of memory free to implement both the translations and the subtitles.

BUT ... that doesn't mean that you'll have free VRAM or text/sprites that you can use to display those subtitles.

One possibility would be to use the extra VDP in the SuperGrafx to display the subtitles ... but that would 1) limit the hardware that could run the game, and 2) may not be *practical* anyway.

I was researching how to implement SuperGrafx subtitles in the Legend of Xanadu games, but found that there was one particular hardware difference between the 2 machines that Falcom were relying on, that would make SuperGrafx subtitles look bad (without scene-by-scene checking and modification of the original graphics).

You may (or may not) hit the same issue with Ziria/Manjumaru.

Either way ... it's going to be a lot more "fun" for your hacker(s) in getting a translation working on the PC Engine, since we're not able to just increase the program/data RAM space for the game, in the way that your hackers are doing with the SNES ROM.

Well ... unless you wish to target the Turbo Everdrive v2, in which case, you really don't have any practical limit to the expansion.

Whatever you do ... good luck!

It would be really nice to see more PC Engine games translated, especially in this year, the 30th Anniversary of the console.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 18, 2017, 11:09:58 pm
Tom:

I will admit that I've never played a patched ROM on a DS, but it is impossible for my computer to emulate PS2 and GC games appropriately enough, and don't get me started on PC-Engine CD emulation, whereas it is a lot easier to emulate a DS game. Still, if you can get one version of the game translated, than that would be very beneficial to the community. Forgot about the PSP release, your intentions with that actually sound very lovely, so I apologize for my lack of foresight.

Interesting about the manuals, will you translate them as they are, or include readmes with the written content?

That interpretation of Kabuki is something I remember hearing about him a lot. During that era there were plenty of player representative and vanilla protagonists, that it sounds refreshing to play as someone so human, to put it in a way. Kind of reminds me of the "hero" from Lufia: The Legend Returns.

Carry on!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 19, 2017, 01:23:19 am
I agree that it wouldnt be ideal or the ultimate experience to play the NDS version, but as a matter of availability I dont see the harm in doing it anyway, no? I just know people with carts may want to play it on the go without resorting to a word document in the side. Still, if anything can be uncensored I'd be most excited to see how that panned out. If someone is willing to make the ds patch, why cut out the ds players who have also waitdd 25 years for the game because of a few missing(although agreeably very important) sprites?

I dont have any of my books near me atm, but if I remember properly, there is a grave you can find in Apocalypse that says something like P.H. (or H.P.) Dacha along with some Pink Floyd member and other fun stuff like that, but thats the closest to an in-game cameo or reference to him I can think of. I think it was during the whole Reaper segment.

Sherry Earps/Ace is fun too as he is also based on a real person along with the Clanton brothers now 3 Clinton brothers. Wyatt Earps is a furthermore mentioned by name in the game in one of Ace's equip descriptions. There are a couple real-life characters theown into the story, so its interesting that there wasnt more Chada in proper this time around...as he semi-counts as a real person in this scenario.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 19, 2017, 01:48:31 am
Elmer, what's this about Esperknight being too busy to work on games anymore? He's the one I was doing Ziria with! And he still has my Devil Children: Ice Book translation, too! :O I'd better contact him this weekend.

I also didn't know that there were PC Engine technical limitations that absolutely prevented subtitles from being added.

If that's the case, I would recommend adding the uncensored rom to the PSP collection, and then maybe finding out if there's a way to provide subtitles through the PSP's additional capabilities. I'm sure the PSP can get around the PC Engine's limitations.

The manuals and packaging for Zero will be provided through edited image files, not just a text file.

Tengai Makyou usually has good protagonists. The worst ones in the series are the silent protagonists, in Oriental Blue, TM3: Namida, and (unfortunately) TM Zero. Of the silent protagonists, though, Zero's "Higan" is the most expressive. He is also the most fun to roleplay, as he can "misbehave" if you're so inclined.

As for the censored DS version, I think there needs to be a concerted, serious attempt to release the game in its uncensored state before "settling with" a DS version. And as I said before, my computer is not powerful enough to emulate the DS, and I don't have a flash cart. I can emulate PC Engine (Admittedly, it was a pain...) I can emulate the PSP... And I can run patched ISOs.

For me, the DS version won't even be playable in English... And as it's censored, I have no desire to see it put as the basis for the English translation. (The sad thing is, I used to own the DS version, but it was stolen from me years ago... Well, the cart was. I just have an empty case and manual now.) :(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 19, 2017, 02:10:40 am
I like the idea of the psp release being as complete as possible, first and foremost.

Esper might have some experience finagling inside of the iso to see just how the games were inserted(if not just censored roms mashed through an emulator, although Im of the impression thats how the Galaxy Fraulein Yuna collection was compiled). I think Esper was the one who put the bug in my head about subtitles being a difficult beast as he mentioned should SamIam complete anything then it would have been in a side document as a necessity. Still, take it with a grain of salt as that convo was ages ago, my memory is jank and he could have bewer ideas now. Still, Even by fancy slideshow standards, some of the effects used like, say, in the intro to Kabukiden would have reared shaky results were kabuki play dialogues hamfisted over it all.

If anything, Ziria is the most expressive of the protags by a large margin. Rizing is pretty quiet himself although you do get a good profile of him in the few speaking roles he has that he is the just and determined type, even if at nothing else he wants to protect his 12 year-old(if that. Yumemi is the one pushing things). Suffers from the same issue Namida does although Namida is stronger on pushing the romance in the story but its kinda...okay, but why for a hot part of the game.

Back to the DS version though, I dont see it as a matter of settling. If anything I would rather see the psp stuff done first and the DS version  could come out later, like dessert.

Dang, for someone to steal that cart. My condolences.  :-[
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 19, 2017, 09:03:24 am
Thinking back on Ziria, it occurred to me how similar Zero is to Ziria.

Think about it...

"A boy from the once mighty Fire Clan, after being raised in small town by his grandfather, teams up with a small, but powerful girl and an older, blue-haired member of the Fire Clan to take down an ancient evil."

It describes both Ziria and Zero, even though the personalities involved are quite different. I know Zero is supposed to be a reboot and all, but it never really hit me how similar the games are until today.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 19, 2017, 09:26:49 am
Thinking back on Ziria, it occurred to me how similar Zero is to Ziria.

Think about it...

"A boy from the once mighty Fire Clan, after being raised in small town by his grandfather, teams up with a small, but powerful girl and an older, blue-haired member of the Fire Clan to take down an ancient evil."

It describes both Ziria and Zero, even though the personalities involved are quite different. I know Zero is supposed to be a reboot and all, but it never really hit me how similar the games are until today.

That really is pretty curious. I wonder if that was deliberate or not, but it's interesting to see the same premise go in two very different directions. I don't remember where I read this, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea behind Zero was the devs' lament over their kids playing Final Fantasy more as it was on the ever-popular SNES; is that true? If it is, then maybe it was on purpose.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on January 19, 2017, 12:39:34 pm
I will admit that I've never played a patched ROM on a DS, but it is impossible for my computer to emulate PS2 and GC games appropriately enough, and don't get me started on PC-Engine CD emulation, whereas it is a lot easier to emulate a DS game.

I'm not sure what the problem is that you're having with getting PC Engine CD games to run.

The resource requirements on your PC should be less than a DS (just one 7MHz 6502-variant, vs two ARM processors at 33MHz and 66MHz).

Some time ago emulators required that you use a physical CD, which *was* a total PITA, but these days, you can just use a .cue/.bin image of a CD and have it run perfectly.

The process is pretty simple ...
1) Download Mednafen (the most-accurate PCE emulator)
2) Download a copy of the Super System Card (preferably the Japanese version), and put it in the Mednafen/firmware directory as SYSCARD3.PCE
3) Download a PCE game in .cue/.bin format, of use NightWolve's TurboRIP to create an image from your own CD copy of the game.
4) Drag-n-drop the .cue file on the Mednafen .exe (executable).

It should fire straight up.

Mednafen's debugger is pretty-awesome for hacking.


Elmer, what's this about Esperknight being too busy to work on games anymore? He's the one I was doing Ziria with! And he still has my Devil Children: Ice Book translation, too! :O

I'm just judging by a bunch of emails that I traded with him back in early-to-mid 2015 when I took over the Zeroigar project, and then the Legend of Xanadu project, both of which were stalled.

It sounded like he was *very* busy at work at the time.

I also hacked a VWF font into Team Innocent for him, since that was supposed to be the last roadblock on TI, which was apparently 100% translated and insertable (but with display overruns), and fixed a lip-sync problem with the English text, too ... and then nothing has happened on that project in the year-plus since that was sent to him.

Perhaps he's just been busy with other translation projects, but I suspect that he may have got caught up in work, family, and "real-life" (tm).


Quote
I'd better contact him this weekend.

That might be a good idea.


Quote
I also didn't know that there were PC Engine technical limitations that absolutely prevented subtitles from being added.

It may well be *possible*, it entirely depends upon what the developers are doing in the game.

But it's not *likely*.

With only 1 VDP layer, we don't have the luxury of just enabling an unused layer for the subtitles, and it's not a bitmapped screen like the PSP/PS1/etc where you just need to render some extra text to the screen buffer.


Quote
If that's the case, I would recommend adding the uncensored rom to the PSP collection, and then maybe finding out if there's a way to provide subtitles through the PSP's additional capabilities. I'm sure the PSP can get around the PC Engine's limitations.

It depends on how the PSP subtitles are implemented, and having someone hack that system.

Or, since you're presumably running on a hacked PSP anyway, you could just use the subtitling system that's built into Mednafen (precisely for this purpose), and have your game run on any hacked console or R-Pi hardware that can run Mednafen (or RetroArch presumably).

It's trivial to get Mednafen to support extra CD RAM, too, which would also make the hacking easier.

It just depends whether you want to run on original hardware, or not.


Quote
I can emulate PC Engine (Admittedly, it was a pain...) I can emulate the PSP... And I can run patched ISOs.

Well, hopefully you'll find the current-state of PCE CD emulation much easier to use these days.

My 8-year-old PC doesn't have a problem with it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on January 19, 2017, 01:37:13 pm
Well, between work and family, there's very little time for this hobby, but Esperknight also has a lot of projects, which doesn't help.

He's very much active though as I've seen his progress on other games, but he could probably use the help of an additional programmer to get things done.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 19, 2017, 05:41:24 pm
Nightcrawaler, could you check that again?
...
Are you talking about these 00h-0fh:8000h-FFFFh and 80h-8fh:8000h-FFFFh?

Thanks for looking at the current SNES9x code. The expanded space would have been accessible at 90-9F:8000-FFFF. It would have been half accessible via the 8000-FFFF range which was the drawback of it. All of my work was done about 5 years ago now and I haven't touched my cart since. I can see that the current SNES9x source you posted doesn't map this region which kills much of that sail wind now. You're obviously content with what you're doing, and I'm not interested in further revisiting that project in more detail at this point. So, we can put it to bed. I do still hope to see available ways to play on the hardware, as well as a selection of emulators when the project is released however it is achieved though!

I'm sorry for stirring things up. I have that pesky FEOZ cart that keeps eying me from the shelf that needs a finished English conversion. I've been too close to the action on this project for too many years. I got started while aiding in some of the early ZSNES graphics pack capture work, and then when DeJap was on the case, and then transitions after that. So occasionally, many years worth of closet mothballs burst out at times. Carry on. :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on January 19, 2017, 07:15:18 pm
You're obviously content with what you're doing, and I'm not interested in further revisiting that project in more detail at this point.

I'm not content about not being directly compatible with all emulators, don't take me wrong, I'm only saying this is necessary. The first hacking and expansion was made by LostTemplar, Byuu also suggested this expansion, and I think DdsTranslation also agree with that. If you have a better solution please share what you know with us.
I'm hacking the graphics, so the impact of a new mapping is very little. DdsTranslation can talk more about that, because he is doing the main hacking, but I think a new mapping that resolve all compatibility problem won't be a dead sentence to him.
But after studying the game I can say with 99,9% certainty that there is no solution you can give to us to resolve these emulator compatibility problems. The only solution is keeping the game size to 1MB and add a super compression method. But even so I don't think it will be enough. And with expansion you need new emulator versions.
I know you are a much more experienced romhacker than me, but there are no secrets here. If you want to study the game more deeply you'll realize the need for expansion and the emulator compatibility problem.
Like we can see, in the Snes9x code there is no mapping to a second megabyte. And if you think about it, 90-9f is a bad choice to put an extra megabyte.

About the hacking I was the guy who tried to bring you to this project several times. I don't know if you didn't see the messages (look the first messages in this topic), or was busy working in Glory of Heracles 4. But then DdsTranslation shows up and now he is doing an amazing job with the game. Seems that this project was made for him. He is resolving several problems very quickly and with a very high quality. I'm doing my best to do a good work too. FlashPV is doing the graphics editions and he is also doing an amazing job.
Tom is the project leader and his translation is just amazing. I could not find any errors so far. I think it's the best translation I've ever seen.

You know a lot about romhacking (one of the best), so share with us your suggestions. You said you have some old notes about this game, so please check them to see if something is worth.

I have that pesky FEOZ cart that keeps eying me from the shelf that needs a finished English conversion.

If you want to put the translation in your Feoez cartridge then you can do that, no problem. The expansion will not prevent that.

I've been too close to the action on this project for too many years. I got started while aiding in some of the early ZSNES graphics pack capture work, and then when DeJap was on the case, and then transitions after that. So occasionally, many years worth of closet mothballs burst out at times. Carry on.

I know, but this project was left in oblivion for more than a decade. LostTemplar, Byuu and Tom was the guys who brought life again to this project, then the project paused for some more years. Now me, DdsTranslation and FlashPV were invited by Tom to work on the project, and I think this time is sure that the project will be released.

It's only possible because several people worked hard in the past, since Dejap's time.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 19, 2017, 08:50:35 pm
From DDS :

Modified the date entry format to be consistent with in-game, added meridiem text to time, and also increased limit on birthday year.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WGnz9XUAQVQv9.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WGpRMWEAA3AlY.jpg)

Small fix to display "Uncountable" when you have over 9,999,999 ryo. You can have up to 16,777,215 ryo but the game only displays 7 digits.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WVU19XgAUr_CH.jpg)

Fixed a bug on the Equipment screen so the equipped items' names wouldn't get overwritten while scrolling through the item list.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2gqCC6XAAAOSPz.jpg)

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SamIAm on January 20, 2017, 02:45:57 am
Hi Tom. I hope your TM Zero translation is going well.

I didn't get a significant percentage of the Ziria script done. When I picked it up, I was mostly just hoping to breathe a little life into the PCE translation scene, but then elmer came along to help with other PCE (and PC-FX) projects that were a higher priority for me. If and when the time comes that you feel like doing it, I think the best thing would be for you to pick up right where you left off and forget about anything I did.

By all means, be the Tengai Makyou guy. While I would actually be interested in doing Manjimaru if there's a hacker that's up for it and you're not available, I've got plenty of other interesting things to look at. If one person translated the entire series, well, that would be very cool indeed.  :thumbsup:

I've poked SamIAm (the translator on that project), and he'll respond here if he wishes to.

But my personal take on it is (which you should take with a grain-of-salt) ... EsperKnight is too busy working in real-life to do translations anymore, and SamIAm passed all of the work that he'd done to Tom ages ago, deciding that Tom has a much-greater passion for this particular series of games, and is the better guy to work on them (as most folks here know, this kind of translation takes a lot of hard work, and a passion for the game in order to sustain the desire to do that work).

Ah...you seem to be a little confused.  :beer:

Tom was the original translator of Ziria, and it was actually his partially completed script that Esperknight sent to me. I think this was during a time when Tom was at-large and a translator was needed. Now that Tom is back, though, Ziria is all his if he wants it, as is all of the translation credit.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 20, 2017, 03:04:46 am
I think this is the last major SNES RPG that still needs a translation. Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SamIAm on January 20, 2017, 04:15:12 am
I suppose that would depend on your definition of "major".

Big budget? Big cart size? Big sales? Big reputation?

Tengai Makyou Zero might be at the top of the list in one or all of these categories, but it's definitely not the only one in any of them. Daikaijuu Monogatari 2 and Bakumatsu Korinden Oni 1 and 2 come to mind pretty quickly. I'm sure there are plenty more.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 20, 2017, 06:34:14 am
Wow, I'm sad to hear that Esperknight shipped along my WIP script without giving me a heads up. The only reason I haven't pushed forward with it more at this point is that his plate was already full, so I was afraid of it sitting unhacked. I still have every intention of translating Ziria. It's not all that big of a script, so it's certainly doable.

I'll get things straightened out and then move forward with my other projects. I've been going all-out with Zero these days. There's still a lot to iron out, and then the manual too. (Mostly tedious stuff.) Once Zero's done, I'm going to be jumping between a few projects.

Formatting DQM 1&2
Formatting another "secret" game that's been on the backburner.
Translating Zill O'll PSP
Translating Ziria. (Certainly Manjimaru is better than Ziria, but I think Ziria should be released before Manjimaru... Of course I'd like to do all of them, SamIam! My dream is to make that PSP collection, after all! One step at a time!)

There is one other major SNES RPG that I want to get translated eventually. Not exactly a high priority, but it would be: Last Bible 3. I'm up for working on it with ddstranslation, whenever he'd like to, if he would like to. But he's got other things on his plate on the moment, and so do I, so it's not a high priority at the moment. It might not be major to most people, but it's major to me! :)

Another "when I get around to it" plan of mine is to take another look at the Oriental Blue script. I've spent a lot of time formatting TM Zero's script to get everything "just right" and make it very easy to read. (Ditto for DQM1&2's script.) I'd like to do the same for Oriental Blue eventually. I tried replaying it, and it's just too messy for me now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on January 20, 2017, 02:02:25 pm
Well, between work and family, there's very little time for this hobby, but Esperknight also has a lot of projects, which doesn't help.

He's very much active though as I've seen his progress on other games, but he could probably use the help of an additional programmer to get things done.

It's good to know that he's still active and managing to find some time to keep working on translations.

I'll keep on the lookout for any new news that gets posted on the progress of those translations.


While I would actually be interested in doing Manjimaru if there's a hacker that's up for it and you're not available, I've got plenty of other interesting things to look at.

I suspect that the PCE community can keep you busy.  ;)


Ah...you seem to be a little confused.  :beer:

Tom was the original translator of Ziria, and it was actually his partially completed script that Esperknight sent to me.

Whoops, my bad!  :-[

I misunderstood the sequence of events that you talked about in the thread on PCEFX.

Sorry, Tom ... I've edited the earlier post to correct it.


Wow, I'm sad to hear that Esperknight shipped along my WIP script without giving me a heads up. The only reason I haven't pushed forward with it more at this point is that his plate was already full, so I was afraid of it sitting unhacked. I still have every intention of translating Ziria. It's not all that big of a script, so it's certainly doable.

It's great to see the amazing progress that you and the team have made in TM Zero in the last few weeks, and I hope that you'll get the chance to finish off Ziria, and work on Manjimaru.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SamIAm on January 20, 2017, 08:48:19 pm
Wow, I'm sad to hear that Esperknight shipped along my WIP script without giving me a heads up. The only reason I haven't pushed forward with it more at this point is that his plate was already full, so I was afraid of it sitting unhacked. I still have every intention of translating Ziria. It's not all that big of a script, so it's certainly doable.

While I'd hate for this to needlessly turn into drama, I should point out in Esperknight's defense that he at least told me that he tried to contact you about this. He didn't take passing along someone else's script lightly, that's for sure. Anyway, please don't let this sour your relationship with him.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 20, 2017, 11:16:46 pm
While I'd hate for this to needlessly turn into drama, I should point out in Esperknight's defense that he at least told me that he tried to contact you about this. He didn't take passing along someone else's script lightly, that's for sure. Anyway, please don't let this sour your relationship with him.

I've known Esperknight for way too long to let something like that sour anything! Ha ha! Water under the bridge. I'm just disappointed. That's all.

Back on track...

Today, ddstranslation, DougRPG, FlashPV and I are going to have our first Tengai Makyou Zero hacking team get-together to settle some stuff regarding battle menu graphics. (The battle menu stuff is something that's going to require collaboration between all four of us. The rest of the work can largely be done independently.) Once this work is done, the battle strategy menu can be fully hacked, and the battle screens will be next!

On the formatting and graphics side, the fourth nation is nearly fully formatted AND nearly all of the graphics up to that point are done! Still a lot more to do, but progress is progress!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Kallisto on January 25, 2017, 11:58:34 am
I think this is the last major SNES RPG that still needs a translation. Or am I wrong?


There is still plenty that need to be translated like the Albert Odyssey series, and quite a few other titles, the problem is that Translator either disappear or gave up on them, and some of the abandoned project files can be found here if someone is willing to pickup where they left off. There is also the case of ongoing projects that fall under certain translating groups like Dynamic Designs that are still working on projects like Aretha, etc. What needs to be done is getting some fresh hackers since the original gang on RMN are hitting a point in their life where things are getting a bit busy.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 25, 2017, 07:08:18 pm
From DDS :

Added labels to the screen where you use inventory items.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2lkCgaXgAAlaIR.jpg)

Fixed combat log to correctly center the appropriate text, and removed garbage tiles from appearing.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C26j8ajWEAA0_jx.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C26j9-bXcAA8g4v.jpg)

From Doug :

Juri's Flower Garden - From Tengai Makyou Zero - English Translation.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2-4x_yW8AAY95o.jpg)

Turtle Soup Restaurant - Before and after.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2-8MlvXEAAxu45.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2-8MlyXUAE0IFm.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on January 26, 2017, 12:05:43 am
Beyond amazing!!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 26, 2017, 10:59:40 pm
In response to PunkFrog's question,

http://fantasyanime.com/garden/translations-main.htm

This may be a good site to look at some remaining Super Famicom JRPGs that still need to be translated, like Akazukin Cha Cha......then there is Gran Historia, but I wouldn't really call it "major" considering that nobody even talks about it, also there was a thread on here with a number of games that have fallen by the wayside and still need some translation help, like Love Quest. Lastly, I would think that GDLeen would be major due to its history with the Super Famicom, itself. You may want to reconsider my commentary, though, as many of these games are not "essential", yet I tend to think that any Super Famicom JRPG does deserve a spotlight set upon it, the American version of the console, after all, was what birthed my love for the genre.

Elmer:

I think that I tried using Mednafen but it didn't work too well if I can recall, will try again. ::sigh:: I wish that Magic Engine could allow anyone to use downloaded ISOs on it, but what can I say? Thank you for the advice, though, it's really the only CD-based add-on that I'm having trouble emulating.

Tom:

Last Bible 3, which is on the page I linked to, looks quite good. Thanks again, for working on TMZ (the one without the gossip :P)!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 27, 2017, 12:10:22 pm
An update regarding Tengai Makyou Zero:

I'm currently on my second full playthrough of the English version of the game from a fresh save. I'm in the second to last region, but I've skipped certain events related to PLGS because I'm mainly working from a preliminary rom that still shows bad variables. I'm saving these parts for the "Restart+" mode, with a more complete rom. (Yes, this game has its own version of New Game+.) It will be much easier to test them at that time.

Actually, I recently discovered that what I thought was a "shocking secret" about the Restart+ mode was actually just a PLGS event. There's a certain event that I saw on a restarted file that I didn't see during my "regular" playthrough. I attributed it to being a restart extra... Turns out it's accessible even in the first playthrough.

What was that shocking event? Wouldn't you like to know!  :happy:

Mostly, I've been improving the script's flow and readability. For example, if the first word of a sentence lingers on the same line as the previous sentence, I'll tab it down, or if there's one word that appears after a comma hanging on at the end of the line. Basically, I want to put line breaks in the best possible spots... After a period, after a comma, etc.

Lots of fine-tuning. I don't know what the text will look like in game in the script editor, so I just have to add in formatting codes, generate the rom, and test any changes I make in-game. It's a pain. It's probably more work than people will ever realize, but I hope the text works "just right" when they play through it.

Once I finish my current playthrough, I'll jump to manual/packaging translation until Doug and DDS have finished the game in English. If DougRPG finishes, it means the graphics are nearly done... If DDStranslation finishes, it means the credits are nearly done. Either would be big news, so I'm looking forward to seeing who will finish first. Also, I'm really eager to hear what they thought, because as of right now, nobody else has played through it in English before. I can't wait to hear their opinions.

Merr Man: I saw a used copy of GDleen, in box (no manual, though), for sale at a very cheap price (about 250 yen). I am sure that, as the first SFC RPG, it will get translated by someone, someday. Perhaps once there aren't any other, better games to do? It'd be interesting if it could be the first SFC RPG ever released, and the last SFC RPG translation patch released. In all fairness, though... It doesn't look all that bad!

Last Bible 3, on the other hand, is pretty good. The battle pacing is a little slow (as were most of the Megaten-related games on the SFC), and the tone is certainly quite different from any of the other Last Bible games, but like its other SFC Megaten brothers, it's a worthwhile game. But yeah, that site shows off some others great games too, for sure.

Mikeprado: It'll be even more amazing once you're playing the game yourself!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 27, 2017, 03:29:34 pm
Tom:

I do know that GD Leen is on the Aeon Genesis project page: https://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=gdleen (though I think you may have already known this), but it only says that it is 5% done. It does look pretty good, I agree with you on that. As far as last, I found this list while doing a new search: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Famicom_and_Super_NES_role-playing_games. Maybe I should've used that to also answer PunkFrog's question. At least, it probably won't be too long before GD Leen gets fully translated.

One thing that I do take, while watching the Last Bible 3 video, is how much it reminds me of the Lufia games for the SNES, probably moreso the first one, especially in the way the protagonist moves while in a town or other important site.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on January 27, 2017, 05:44:09 pm
I hear Last Bible 3 is especially evil. Apparently it has its own very large scripting language with text embedded within. Not for the faint of heart.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 27, 2017, 07:31:56 pm
I hear Last Bible 3 is especially evil. Apparently it has its own very large scripting language with text embedded within. Not for the faint of heart.

Yeah, actually... I remember using the tools on this site years ago to extract at the LB3 script and it had LOTS of programming text thrown in... (But looking at the same text again now, it doesn't seem THAT bad.) Really, LB3 needs a translator who absolutely adores the series, and I'm probably the only one who loves enough the LB series enough to try to muscle through it.

Only this phrase from the hacker's (Bongo's?) documents scares me:

"There's roughly 5 categories of demon speak.
1 which uses index pointers to combine TWO sentence fragments."

Combining Japanese sentence fragments together is never a good thing. (Dragon Quest Monsters 1&2 did a similar thing with battle text, and that was a real pain.) Doing that sort of thing five times over WOULD be painful. No doubt about it. But it wouldn't be impossible.

Actually, DQM 1&2 was even worse. It would break sentences into Japanese grammar constituents, like
(X)ha
(X)ga
(X)ni
(X)wo
(and more)

It would piece everything together on the fly, forming auto-generated Japanese sentences. Japanese grammar doesn't equate one-to-one in English, so if you just replace the strings with English, everything had a "machine translated" feel to it at first... Awkward phrasing, subtle but profound grammar issues... It took a lot of tinkering for Kingcom to make the proper accommodations to get the text to sound decent.

Slightly awkward demon-speak in LB3 is a small price to pay, and perhaps any unavoidable oddities can be written off by saying, "They're demons... Do you expect wild demons to be all that eloquent?" (That would be slightly misleading, though. The LB series mostly uses a term closer to the word "beasts" than demons.)

I do know that GD Leen is on the Aeon Genesis project page...

One thing that I do take, while watching the Last Bible 3 video, is how much it reminds me of the Lufia games for the SNES, probably moreso the first one, especially in the way the protagonist moves while in a town or other important site.

Actually, I had no idea that Gideon was working on GDLeen. That's good to know. I doubt it's a high priority project for him, though. If he has time for it, I'd rather he worked on Madara 2 with me again. It's been too long since I've looked at that script. I'm sure I could improve it.

Your Lufia comparison is very appropriate, by the way. The world is very colorful, just like Lufia. I miss the Lufia games, and I wish they brought that world back. (Though if the DS reboot is any indication of what they'd do with it now, maybe it's better for them to leave the games untouched.) I'm kind of scared what a modern-day Last Bible game would look like, too.

One thing that's clear is that there will in all likelihood NEVER be another Tengai Makyou game (thanks to Konami). I would gladly take a reboot of the Tengai series... Well, unless they put it on phones and tablets as a free to play gacha-system game, which is pretty much the only way it would ever get released in this day and age...  :'(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 28, 2017, 12:15:46 am
Tom:

Gideon has got many projects on there that are on hiatus that I'm just craving for some kind of a follow-up status on, like Lady Stalker definitely, although I am very, very curious about Madara 2, I kind of liked the first game but the second game attracts me much more. I shouldn't be whining about it, though, he ended up translating my favorite NES/Famicom RPG, Chaos World.

I loved the Lufia games myself. The Fortress of Doom was one of my first RPGs that I've ever played, and I ended up really, really liking it, especially the bittersweet ending, Lufia II definitely got the reputation that it deserved, Returns had one of the most comical protagonists in a video game but everything else wasn't half as good, and IV, I actually liked much more than III even with the mute protagonist and lack of overworld exploration. Would love a new Lufia game, but I guess that they decided that the only way to finish the series was the ending of III, maybe they felt that people were getting tired of the Sinistrals.

As far as the fate of TM goes, I must say that the last thing I ever expected was for Konami to bring out a new Bomberman game, since they didn't do anything since the acquisition besides canceling the 3DS game, and what do you know? I was completely blown away, being a huge fun of the Bomberman series. So, there may be hope (even if I don't think that Super Bomberman R looks like it will set the world on fire). (I will not make a "pachinko machine joke") If you had an idea for a new TM game, what would your fantasy be?

And yes, being a big Breath of Fire fan, I feel your hypothetical pain.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 28, 2017, 01:29:45 am
(I will not make a "pachinko machine joke")

Surely they've done exploding pachinko balls by now... ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 28, 2017, 01:42:27 am
Gideon has got many projects on there that are on hiatus that I'm just craving for some kind of a follow-up status on, like Lady Stalker definitely

Yeah, Lady Stalker is a gem for sure. Have you noticed that the best games remain translated last and the bad ones first? On PC Engine besides TM games we have AnEarth Fantasy Stories which is the best Hudson's RPG on the console but we get Xak 3 instead and that strange Odyssey RPG game.

Thank god that Elmer and Samiam are working on Legend of Xanadu series at once.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 28, 2017, 04:31:21 am
As far as the fate of TM goes, I must say that the last thing I ever expected was for Konami to bring out a new Bomberman game, since they didn't do anything since the acquisition besides canceling the 3DS game, and what do you know? I was completely blown away, being a huge fun of the Bomberman series. So, there may be hope (even if I don't think that Super Bomberman R looks like it will set the world on fire). (I will not make a "pachinko machine joke") If you had an idea for a new TM game, what would your fantasy be?

Bomberman is a mass-market game with international appeal. Of course they're still going to use it. Konami is not getting out of the games industry completely. They're just going to stick to tried and true IPs with international appeal... And, unfortunately, Tengai Makyou is not one such series.

As for pachinko, yes... Tengai Makyou already has a pachinko machine for part two (actually, not a pachinko machine, but a slot machine). But I don't see them releasing any more of them. Even a gacha system game would surprise me, because the series is not all that popular in Japan now, aside from maniacal fans like the sort we've got assembled here, and many of them wouldn't want a mobile game. The average gamer in Japan knows next to nothing about it... So they wouldn't have a very big user base to exploit.

You asked me what I would do for a new Tengai Makyou game... Well, before I get to that, I mostly want Oriental Red, the prequel to Oriental Blue that they had been planning long ago. There are so many hints and references hidden in Oriental Blue's script. I would have loved to see them expand on the original story, when the Blue-eyed Clan first appeared, and the ogres were still fierce and strong.

But that's just a Tengai series game, not exactly Tengai Makyou...

What I'd want from a new Tengai Makyou game most of all would have to be one that shows the original arrival of the Fire Clan. All of them talk about what the Fire Clan did in the past, and the main characters have always inherited this great legacy from their ancestors. I would like to finally play as the original members of the Fire Clan, who had no predecessors. Everything was new, and they were learning as they were going along. I think that's something any Tengai Makyou fan would like to see.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 28, 2017, 11:04:16 am
dejan:

How have I never heard of AnEarth Fantasy Stories before? It looks awesome! I've also read that there is a Saturn version of the game, and am wondering, better, the same or worse (if you've played it)? For me, I've been planning to do a runthrough of the whole "Landstalker series" (including the related games), but Lady Stalker is the only one not fully playable in my native language. As far as best and worst, I really don't know, I mean Chaos World was a fantastic game for the Famicom, and up there as one of the system's best games and it was translated years ago, and I loved FF V and ToP, I think that it is more that if there is a real hidden gem for a console, or handheld, you may have to get really lucky to even see it get the light of day. I'm just crossing my fingers that somebody, eventually, comes up with a "Google Translate" for games stuck with the Japanese language, but I know that it won't be the same as the human element.

Tom:

That is a good point, though it doesn't settle my worry about not getting a new "Bonk" or "Adventure Island" game, both series that I love dearly. Then again, I am sure that I'll put in this series as my third feeling of major worry about Konami, itself.

Didn't know that TM isn't too popular in Japan, currently. Because of the multiple installations of the series, I would expect it to be more like Dragon Quest than a cult franchise.

Your ideas for a new TM game sound very, very good, whether Oriental Red or a Fire Clan prequel. Many video games do use an invisible prequel story to tell the story in the current, like the cliche "four warriors sealed the bad demon away", it's also the most consensual thing to get anything out of the world of FFVI besides the main game. Would be cool to think about, given my lack of game design experience and the fact that Konami may not care about one stray email, while playing the series.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 28, 2017, 11:17:37 am
dejan:

How have I never heard of AnEarth Fantasy Stories before? It looks awesome! I've also read that there is a Saturn version of the game, and am wondering, better, the same or worse (if you've played it)?

Saturn version has updated character icons and that's it! I prefer the PC engine version.

For me, I've been planning to do a runthrough of the whole "Landstalker series" (including the related games), but Lady Stalker is the only one not fully playable in my native language.

If you keep having troubles with the diagonal controls there is a patch to change them to classic 4 directions. It is funny that it was me who is responsible for that patch by forcing another hacker to fix it. Deja Vu?

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,20088.0.html
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 28, 2017, 11:55:06 am
dejan:

Unfortunate that the Saturn version didn't do much to the game, also weird that they titled it "Volume 1" for that release. I would expect the PC-Engine CD version to be easier to work with, possibly, so I am alright in playing it on there.

I'll think about your patch. I really liked Landstalker, but I think that the difficulty was based more on perspective than control scheme, still moving around in an isometric platformer can be a little bit tricky. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 28, 2017, 01:17:30 pm
Unfortunate that the Saturn version didn't do much to the game, also weird that they titled it "Volume 1" for that release. I

I believe the reason the Saturn release is called "Volume 1" is because Anearth Fantasy Stories was planned to be a trilogy of games. Anearth was released late in the PCE's live so I think they we're planning on finishing the series on the Saturn but it didn't work out.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: PunkFrog on January 28, 2017, 08:07:05 pm
I am super excited to play this.  ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 28, 2017, 09:38:13 pm
I believe the reason the Saturn release is called "Volume 1" is because Anearth Fantasy Stories was planned to be a trilogy of games. Anearth was released late in the PCE's live so I think they we're planning on finishing the series on the Saturn but it didn't work out.

Looking at the time of release, the game was released a year before the Dreamcast started selling in Japan, so that is probably why. The acclaim I've seen it get "one of the greatest 16-bit RPGs" by "The Brothers Duomazov", for example, would make me interested if I ever get to play it in English, to see if a trilogy would've been a good idea.

Part of my hope for taking active attention to this thread, is that it sustains overall interest in the project, or at least a very, very tiny bit. It disappointed me when one thread on this project remained inactive for a while, so I am actually kind of pumped to see so much activity here.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on January 29, 2017, 12:39:15 am
The acclaim I've seen it get "one of the greatest 16-bit RPGs" by "The Brothers Duomazov", for example, would make me interested if I ever get to play it in English, to see if a trilogy would've been a good idea.

Well SamIAm has said that he definitely wants to do the translation, so hopefully you'll see it, someday.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 29, 2017, 11:54:06 am
Part of my hope for taking active attention to this thread, is that it sustains overall interest in the project, or at least a very, very tiny bit. It disappointed me when one thread on this project remained inactive for a while, so I am actually kind of pumped to see so much activity here.

Yeah, I like it when people participate in the thread. In the off chance that somebody doesn't know about the translation yet, maybe seeing it up at the top of the board increases the likelihood of them finding out about the translation. My Youtube channel reaches far fewer people, I'm sure.

Most people just aren't familiar with this game or series, so they're not likely to participate in a thread for a game they know absolutely nothing about (even if it is great). They are more drawn to familiar series that they have already played before. That's natural. Maybe once the game's out, people will discover it.

The game is now largely formatted, PLGS content aside. This weekend, I went on an all-out playthrough and formatting binge this weekend. I just have to wrap up a few loose ends before the final battle, beat the boss one more time, then I can send everything out and focus on the manual and packaging translation while DDStranslation and DougRPG do their thing.

Once their work is done, I'll do one more playthrough to clean up any remaining issues with some of the optional PLGS-related text that I didn't see during this playthrough. Once I'm satisfied with the script, we'll try to find some good testers to find whatever errors slipped through the cracks.

It is really coming together well.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on January 29, 2017, 12:59:20 pm
I am really excited for this one.  It looks beautiful and maybe the best of the untranslated RPGs left for the snes.  Plus 2016 was a slow year for snes RPG fan translations due to more important real life issues (it seems) for many involved with the scene.  But to be fair Heracles did come in at the tail end of 2016 and 2017 has already given us xak (version 1.00 is fine imo) and 3x3 which is kind of RPG....so it feels like 2017 is going to be a busier year, I bet dd translations is just about ready for some big news, just an individual hunch. 

But ya, this game, so excited to try.  Looks like a ctrigger/Lennus 2 mix or something.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 29, 2017, 07:51:29 pm
Well SamIAm has said that he definitely wants to do the translation, so hopefully you'll see it, someday.


My regards to SamIAm, AnEarth sounds pretty unique, especially for its time, so I'll be waiting.

Tom:

I absolutely loved it, the first time I discovered this site, especially because it is very difficult to keep up with all of the projects, and the individual translation sites don't get updated that often, but the real meat is in this forum. Just a question, do you know how well Kabuki Klash did do outside of Japan? It would be cool for a Youtuber to talk about the game in a "hidden gems" series (like "Roo" from "Clan of the Grey Wolf"), or even a RPGamer review. I am guessing that claiming it to be competitive with FFVI and Chrono Trigger, would get some curious people poking around.

I mean, the reason why I got curious was because, I'm a huge RPG fan (Can never be overstated), been this way for years and would just eat up any RPG in the console-based style, especially turn-based during the 16-bit and 32-bit eras, like some kind of a fanatic. To sort of reiterate, this is a series that I had heard about for a number of years , and I would constantly find out more and more about the games, would watch the videos and learn about how much love people had for it, but I was so disappointed to not see an entry, beside the fighting game, that could be played in English. I was an early member of the Gaijinworks Forums, around the time of the Class of Heroes KS, and learned about Vic's love for the PSP version of TM Apocalypse but it never went anywhere. So you can only imagine how much I am dying to play a game like this. While I appreciate the translation of Oriental Blue (my backlog is so full), it's not like getting a main series game as an English entry.

Travel27:

What is very interesting, to me, are some of the enemy sprites like this giant robot boss that I saw from an in-combat screenshot. There seemed to be a lot of detail when it came to the robot.

Here's hoping to a more active 2017 also!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 29, 2017, 09:20:12 pm
Yeah, Travel27 and Merr Man, I think 2017 will be a good year for fan projects, but I have this haunting suspicion that the Mother 4 fan game will come out right about the same time as our patch for Tengai Makyou Zero, and I'm sure that would instantly kill off any hype for Zero.

In terms of legit releases, I'm looking forward to Dragon Quest XI, Project Octopath Traveler, and Cosmic Star Heroine. Who knows when those will come out, though.

I sincerely think that Tengai Makyou Zero will blow people away. This game didn't really stand a chance of having a legit English release back in the day, by the way. It would have needed substantial censorship. (You probably couldn't guess it from the screenshots, though...)

Of course, the version we'll release will be complete and uncut.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 30, 2017, 12:04:10 am
Tom:

I keep on forgetting about that, I don't even know if they said anything but that will probably be the big news story within the hardcore community, even if Nintendo tries to find a way to C & D it. I really think that Zero, like Burning Heroes and Silva Saga II, will be much more well known to a very small population, whether or not Mother 4 comes out, and I would hate for that to be the case, at least you aren't working for money when working on Zero, though it is very valuable. It's a blessing and a curse to delve into esoterica, especially if there may be a Region Locked episode, sometime in the future, going over the series.

I'm really, really looking forward to all of them also, really there are a lot of releases this year that I am interested in, I do wonder if we'll ever see DQ X ever get a localization for western audiences, it looks like the kind of game I would love to play, even if it is a MMO (I am a lot more of a loner kind of gamer). Project Octopath Traveler (any reference to the Buddhist "Eightfold path"?) really did intrigue me, and I am also interested in Xenoblade II, heard that the first was an absolute masterpiece.

Zero was also released in 1995, right? While, I've been curious as to why Secret of the Stars got localized, seems like an out-of-the-blue choice, it does seem like they probably thought that Zero, besides what you said about the censorship, may have also been too late to even get the censorship it may have needed in order to see a release in the west. I am very curious as to what had to be censored, and am glad that you aren't taking liberties with this game, thank you.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on January 30, 2017, 12:27:53 am
"Why did Secret of the Stars get localized and not FEoEZ?"
That's a rather apples-to-oranges comparison, especially considering they're different companies involved.

Maybe Tecmo just felt the time was right to release an RPG and... that was they had. (the only other RPG I know they had was their canceled Tower of Radia translation, but the NES was dead by that point.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 30, 2017, 01:38:46 am
"Why did Secret of the Stars get localized and not FEoEZ?"
That's a rather apples-to-oranges comparison, especially considering they're different companies involved.

Maybe Tecmo just felt the time was right to release an RPG and... that was they had. (the only other RPG I know they had was their canceled Tower of Radia translation, but the NES was dead by that point.)

I guess, to me, it can be very interesting as to what doesn't get localized and what does get localized, and Secret of the Stars, which I actually happen to really like, seems to be the RPG that, maybe, puzzles me the most. I apologize if it came out awkwardly.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2017, 04:06:07 am
I'll give you a sneak peek at what PH Chada, says in TM Zero's manual, since it relates to the topic, "Why wasn't this game released in English?"

Here is what they have written for PH Chada in the manual:

"Oh, how wonderful this is! Releasing Tengai Makyou on a Nintendo system was a no-brainer. And along the way, "Tengai Makyou" has developed into a whole new world. Dare I say it? Could this Tengai Makyou game be one day brought back to my own homeland? Could it become a game played all over the world? I'm looking forward to the day when it's turned into a Hollywood blockbuster film!"

While I can't make the second part of PH Chada's dream come true, I can at least make the first part of it happen!

Incidentally, Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai has a dummied Hudson USA logo dummied away inside of it... But it goes to show you, there was always some level consideration going on there. People have passed around the 360 Ziria preliminary English screenshots as well, right? So many times, the series has fallen through the cracks, and now it's in Konami's graveyard.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on January 30, 2017, 08:56:56 am
Yeah, Travel27 and Merr Man, I think 2017 will be a good year for fan projects, but I have this haunting suspicion that the Mother 4 fan game will come out right about the same time as our patch for Tengai Makyou Zero, and I'm sure that would instantly kill off any hype for Zero.

This means you need to finish it much faster. Don't eat, sleep or breed until it is finished!  :thumbsup:

The tragedy of TM is the PC Engine failure in the US. If Ziria was first published on the Sega CD Working Designs would probably brought it to the US.  :'( On the other hand one day when this series get translated i think it will be more appreciated since it took so long. I have never played Lufia 2 and i am thinking about trying it out but it doesn't excites me at all since it is sitting on my PC wherever i want it. Zero and Anearth Fanstasy Stories are beyond my grasp and i am fantasizing about playing them. Crazy!

By the way i have discovered another RPG from Red entertainment who are the makers of TM series but this game appears to be like a gaiden TM game. It is called Kabuki Rocks! but there is almost no information about it online. Have you ever heard of it?

(https://s23.postimg.org/e4dyop1hj/1_front.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e4dyop1hj/)(https://s27.postimg.org/qa4tcdjcv/2_back.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qa4tcdjcv/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/rg1a8sk3d/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rg1a8sk3d/)(https://s28.postimg.org/onn8ggaix/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/onn8ggaix/)(https://s27.postimg.org/vsriezwvz/gfs_9145_2_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vsriezwvz/)

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 30, 2017, 01:21:39 pm
Tom,

Mighty interesting coincidence! That quote from "P.H. Chada" would actually be a lot funnier if it was next to the photo "representation" (Karl Marx, really) of him.

You could fill a book with games that had, had localization considerations, in fact I am very curious about Shinseki Odysselya, a Super Famicom JRPG, which had a completed localization as "Lost Mission" for presumed western release, but that was scrapped. I also remember that the XBox 360 had a bunch of JRPGs localized into English, would've been very nice to include a new TM game along with them, but Gaijinworks (that name again) blamed Microsoft for not being able to do it. Maybe we'll see a localization, someday, from Gw when it comes to that series. Speaking of Konami RPGs, I am a little bit bitter that their last Suikoden game was never localized, I loved the first two Suikoden games.

Here's the latest piece of news, from 2013, that I could find about Konami and TM: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/09/20/konami-licensing-hudson-ips-like-far-east-of-eden-to-other-companies/, but that is for a game that came out in 2014 I guess, well at least there are plenty of games to play before someone may actually do something beneficial for the series.

dejan,

As a big fan of Working Designs ( based on Alundra, and the PS1 Lunar games), and knowing their interest in the series, you would've probably been right, though they did do some PC-Engine work (I think that it was for the Exile games).

You have to play Lufia II, it is a fantastic game. It's got a lot of pathos, fantastic puzzles, the IP meter which sort of serves as a predecessor to the limit break moves in FFVII (besides stuff like the desperation moves in FFVI), I don't have enough good things to say about it, it also doesn't truly drag, plus I love the Sinistrals and fighting them. As per last point in paragraph, this is the world we live in being able to play all kinds of games, even unfinished releases, and homebrews with or without the English tongue.

I saw Kabuki Rocks! also before. Wow, Hardcore Gaming 101 doesn't even mention it, even in the spin-offs section.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2017, 08:54:58 pm
I hadn't heard of Kabuki Rocks before, but it certainly has the Tengai series feel. Although Red collaborated on it, this was an Atlus title in the end, and I think that's why it's not considered a Tengai game.

This is much like why Granzella does not consider Kyoei Toshi to be related to Zettai Zetsumei Toshi, even though it looks a lot like ZZT. Kyoei Toshi is a Bandai Namco series, in the end.

Also, when you say "Kabuki" to a Tengai fan, they think of Danjuro first and foremost, not whoever this guy is. Looks really good, though!

I'm gonna keep an eye out for it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on January 31, 2017, 12:00:24 am
From Doug :

The Turtle Nation is almost done

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2-5ISuXUAAkn2w.jpg)

From DDS :

Added labels and text for shops' Sell menu.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3El5yvXcAQse_8.jpg)

Starting work on the Strategy screen. Added the graphics done by FlashPV and @Doug_RPG for the 4 Plans and combat commands.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3KHsMsVMAQwQ-2.jpg)

Finished implementing Strategy commands and displaying them in combat. Getting very close to the end of my to-do list for this game now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3S2v18WIAIMx1W.jpg)

Added labels for the inn menu

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3UAZboWMAEp5Ux.jpg)

Reworked the pet naming screen for the Hatchery. Letters should match appropriately.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3eOWKgWMAIX17i.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3eOXdMWEAAZI61.jpg)








Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 31, 2017, 02:32:49 am
Dare I say it? Could this Tengai Makyou game be one day brought back to my own homeland? Could it become a game played all over the world?

I'm excited that it's likely you and the team will finally be able to see that happen. Fantastic progress all around! As a bystander, the thread has been a blast to peek in and see what you all have been up to pretty much daily.

Tom, I didnt know that about the dummy files in Oriental Blue! The series does give off the vibes that it really wanted some western appeal back in the day. I was under the impression that that's ultimately why Apocalypse IV came into being with a fresh story as things really sort of died down after that.

 Originally, I was convinced they were going to make Kabuki the Lupin III of jrpgs by making him star in an American wild west fiasco, what with London in FKD and the drama cd. I've also seen concept sketches of Kabuki in cowboy wear as well. Im imagining there was, eventually, a desire to have fresh characters and introductions of the Fire Clan for western audiences and that meant nixing the Far East of Eden label altogether to make it more beginner-friendly.  Im wondering whether they sacrificed that totally viable direction with the series in the name of expanding the series' player base(which obviously never did work out).

If I can find the scans of the cowboy sketches, I'll throw them up here or something, as they are what I think ultimately turned into Ace in the final game and make for good food for thought. Plus, they're cute.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 31, 2017, 07:11:58 am
I originally wanted Kingcom to restore the dummied USA logo for the English patch, but for whatever reason, he said that he couldn't do it.

I don't know if nixing the Far East of Eden label was done to appeal to foreigners, though. To most foreigners, "Far East of Eden" seems more palatable than Tengai Makyou, words that by and large, people wouldn't know how to pronounce, much less define. Then again, Suikoden did well enough, so maybe it would have been a good strategy... aiming for the "Japanese cool" vibe.

We'll never know.

If it's true that Konami is open to letting other companies access the Tengai Makyou IP, maybe there's hope! People have got to get some sort of kickstarter going, pronto... No, wait... Since nobody knows about the series yet, it'll make zero money. Well, it's up to us to get the series some more notoriety first!

Status update:

I beat the game in English for the second time over the weekend while re-formatting the script... Formatting is largely done for all major scenes and general NPCs. Optional stuff like tea houses, gift-giving, and festivals is still unchecked. I'm also going to experiment with changing the item acquisition text so that it all fits in one line. It might break some formatting in a few spots, so it'll need another playthrough to make sure everything works well.

I'll be playing in "Restart+" mode this time, so it should be easier.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 31, 2017, 07:55:03 am
I originally wanted Kingcom to restore the dummied USA logo for the English patch, but for whatever reason, he said that he couldn't do it.

I don't know if nixing the Far East of Eden label was done to appeal to foreigners, though. To most foreigners, "Far East of Eden" seems more palatable than Tengai Makyou, words that by and large, people wouldn't know how to pronounce, much less define. Then again, Suikoden did well enough, so maybe it would have been a good strategy... aiming for the "Japanese cool" vibe.

We'll never know.

If it's true that Konami is open to letting other companies access the Tengai Makyou IP, maybe there's hope! People have got to get some sort of kickstarter going, pronto... No, wait... Since nobody knows about the series yet, it'll make zero money. Well, it's up to us to get the series some more notoriety first!

Sometimes technical difficulties like that do get in the way. I don't know enough about Gameboy files to really say. It's just very intriguing that it exists, nevertheless.


Fortunately, another twitter happened to upload it recently, so I did find the one scan in question. It's small and probably won't serve much for other fans in the thread, but it's a cool post nevertheless:

(http://imgh.us/Untitled_505.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Kazutaka1222/status/825295897152024578 (https://twitter.com/Kazutaka1222/status/825295897152024578)

The page may just be more teasing and Kabuki Den 2 BS above much else and the scan's pretty small, but do note the vest/page title.

I wasn't speaking entirely on the FEoE monicker per se, simply the pressure of having to release a game tied so tightly to an ongoing series. Releasing a "miniseries"(i.e. FKD2) from within a series(Ziria, Manjimaru, FKD respectively) would probably turn off someone, whether a fan or a higher-up, somewhere.

Who knows, maybe it was too close to "East of Eden" to go under the radar trademark-wise and the FEOE title could have had to be dropped anyway. Maybe they'd have to go with "Kabuki Trails" or something. Even if it wasn't for Western appeal, I imagine there was pressure to release something like that when there was no right way to port the original PCe games in the first place.

Great news on the update! I'm excited!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on January 31, 2017, 08:38:18 am
When it comes to Manjimaru, there's only one answer as to which version should be translated. The PC Engine original. It's the only uncensored release. Even the PC Engine PSN port was censored. They rendered the Kinu's rage scene nearly nonsensical, when it used to be shocking. It is relatively tame in every re-release.

Whatever questions you have, feel free to ask. I'm making progress with the game every day, regardless of these posts. They're not taking time away from the game.

Just a heads up, for that particular scene, the gory animated cuts are stored frame by frame on the DS version, easily editable (you can even have more colors than the PC Engine version).
And in fact, they even left most of the uncensored alternates on the cartridge!
I could cook up a patch for the DS game restoring it to its former glory if I had a save from that part.

The only thing that would be missing is the horizontal flying motion for that severed limb (I'd have a static frame instead like animes do in their "To Be Continued" frames, though a horizontal movement isn't frankly that big of a loss) and that cutscene being shorter than the PC-E counterpart.

Some eye candy from the DS version (heavy end-game spoilers, of course!)

Spoiler:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/hkg12_g_ab-08.bmp) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/hkg12_s_0a-01.bmp) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/hkg13_g_c-03.bmp) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/sp_4-01.bmp)

And those two only have the censored frame, but adding back the missing gore is trivial:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/hkg17_g_a-01.bmp) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/hkg17_g_a-02.bmp)

IMO, even with all the cuts, what did make it to the DS cutscene is still hardcore compared to the others. The one that really doesn't make any sense is the PS2 animated one. Or even worse, the Pachinko version.

Of course, this goes for other cutscenes and graphics. That water palace queen could also have her... assets restored to her former glory as well. The green/pink blood could be restored to its original color, same for the title screen logos if you so desire...

The numerous text cuts could be reverted by comparing both text dumps (PCE and DS both uncompressed and Shift-JIS) and spotting the differences. That aside, I prefer the DS version, if only for the more flexible and moddable nature of that version, the music, and the cutscenes being subbed instead of VA only.

But the problem with the DS version is that the text display routine would have to be redone from scratch. As it is currently, it uses a (very ugly) font stored not in 2BPP, not in 4BPP, but in bitmap format. And all text onscreen for both subscreens is drawn at once. Hard to edit font, horrendous implementation of bold font, and ridiculous length limitations.

Also, said audio only cutscenes have their subs hardcoded into the overlays. There's the first lines from various unrelated cutscenes jumbled together, then a bit far there's the second lines... you get the idea.
Unlike PC-Engine version, no ascii support. All text is 2-byte characters.

Other than that, it's very possible:

Spoiler:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/0346%20-%20Tengai%20Makyou%20II%20-%20Manji%20Maru%20%28J%29%28WRG%29_47_30244.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/0346%20-%20Tengai%20Makyou%20II%20-%20Manji%20Maru%20%28J%29%28WRG%29_55_20420.png)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 31, 2017, 09:25:55 am
You're already working on Manjimaru?  :o

Mainly, I think PC Engine should be prioritized because it can be played on the PC Engine and on the PSP collection. I think a PSP hacker should look into the PSP collection to see how feasible adding subtitles is there, because a fully uncensored original version can easily be put back into it, from what I hear.

Making a solution for that is going to have to happen anyway, if people ever want to play Fuun Kabukiden with subtitles.

What I would like done is to translate the PC Engine version, and if it truly is not possible to add subs to the voice acted scenes, then possibly add them through the PSP somehow... Then carry over all of that work to the DS after the fact, instead of making the DS the lead platform for the translation.

This would make the entire series playable in English, rather than just Manjimaru. (Well, Ziria will be easily done, anyway.)

As for undoing the censorship: So, it'd have no flying limb... And what about the whole grabbing the vest instead of grabbing the throat bit?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 31, 2017, 10:00:48 am
You're already working on Manjimaru?  :o

Mainly, I think PC Engine should be prioritized because it can be played on the PC Engine and on the PSP collection. I think a PSP hacker should look into the PSP collection to see how feasible adding subtitles is there, because a fully uncensored original version can easily be put back into it, from what I hear.

Making a solution for that is going to have to happen anyway, if people ever want to play Fuun Kabukiden with subtitles.

What I would like done is to translate the PC Engine version, and if it truly is not possible to add subs to the voice acted scenes, then possibly add them through the PSP somehow... Then carry over all of that work to the DS after the fact, instead of making the DS the lead platform for the translation.

This would make the entire series playable in English, rather than just Manjimaru. (Well, Ziria will be easily done, anyway.)

As for undoing the censorship: So, it'd have no flying limb... And what about the whole grabbing the vest instead of grabbing the throat bit?

I've spoken with Ghanmi on his work on the DS version before, and have peeked once upon a time into the scripts myself. (This was before you were present again and it was purely for the sake of identification.) They're very haphazardly unorganized to the tune of 1250 folders? Each may/may not have text files in an odd format therein, so one might have an entire room's dialogue while the other may have simply, "Manjimaru stepped on a mine." Some have nothing at all, so it's really not fun unless a visual editor is utilized. If he did that in tinke or...I forget what the tools are all called, it's simply an effective proof of concept.

The text could definitely use some work, but if the censored scene can really be re-implemented somehow, that's a great start to patching that version of the game as well.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on January 31, 2017, 10:17:07 am
Nope, just proof of concept screenshots.
For the reasons I mentioned (text routine massive hack needed), a translation is beyond what I can do, until I learn DS ASM. As you see from the very compromised translations, what I can do for now is just not enough and would be a disservice to a game of this pedigree.

PSP/PSN version is actually the emulated PCE version. The changes are pre-patched on the ISO itself. I think some Japanese modders would swap the ISOs in the Galaxy Fraulein / Tengai Makyou Collection with other PCE games and they'd work (including the unaltered Manjimaru II 1992 dump, which must be what you heard about uncensoring the PSP release).

More to the point, this means any technical hurdles for the PCE version will be still there for its emulated re-releases (PSP, PS3 PSN).
The PC Engine has a functional ready-to-use English 8px font used whenever you use ascii characters in the script (like Lunar and other games from the era. And unlike the DS version.) BUT, the PC Engine has a limited number of background layers already extensively used in the animated cutscenes, and as such even adding 8x8 subtitles in any acceptable fashion is next to impossible.

DS version is a port using native hardware. This means:
- replacing all graphics with one with a bigger color palette than the PCE one (and you have 16/256 colors for each single graphic, each with its own palette) is very possible. Of course, uncensoring the game is.
- replacing the low quality audio with versions from the PCE/PS2 versions is possible
- there's subtitles for the cutscenes
- more possibilities for reprogramming the game since the hardware is more powerful

Another thing of note, there's some kanjis off from the Shift-JIS standard, just a handful though. A French translator that used to work on this version compiled them.

I think the Xanadu translations are going with a fan-dub for the voiced cutscenes because they just couldn't fit coding for subs.
In Manjimaru's case (and more worryingly, Kabuki Fuu Den since it's not ported anywhere aside from official emulation) it's definitely going to be a headache and the translations probably compromised (especially if lines span multiple cuts of animation, or when there's a lot going onscreen). 

As for undoing the censorship: So, it'd have no flying limb... And what about the whole grabbing the vest instead of grabbing the throat bit?

The limb will be there with the cut sections and flying gibs of blood and all, it will be just frozen in place.

And the throat grabbing was never cut from the DS version to begin with (you might be thinking of the PS2 version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scrEeoUR32A)). The cuts were apparently done relatively late in development, and were more concerned with hiding dismemberment than anything else. And in other parts of the game, juvenile alcohol drinking. And mocking Mario and Adol. And of course, lots of manjis.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 31, 2017, 11:12:42 am
I realize that the PSP is emulating the PC Engine code, so it's still subject to those limitations but there's other "PSP mechanics" in the background... For instance, you can tab between bordered, stretched, or fullscreen modes. You have an animated border encircling the window. There are extra little things the PSP is doing behind the scenes, and it's quite versatile in that respect.

What if a hacker could alter the PSP's coding to show a text overlay when a line of audio is called up in the game? That's the sort of fix I was thinking might be possible... Using the PSP to do what the PC Engine itself doesn't.

It seems lately, Japan has taken a much harsher stance on dismemberment in games. The Last of Us is rated Z in Japan, but despite that, the scene where a zombie gets its head chopped off was censored so that the zombie just collapses after being hit in the head. The Evil Within shipped censored, and then had day one DLC to put dismemberment back in... They must have had to exploit some loophole about DLC content being subject to different rules.

I think at one point, somebody sent me that script of Manjimaru with the various folders... It looked like somebody had translated a few of the lines, too. There were files with graphics included at some parts. It looked like they extracted images of the villagers, or something. I think Esperknight showed it to me. Oh, yeah. I actually have the folder on this computer. Looks like it's from 2012. It's HTML. That must be what stopped me from actually working on it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 31, 2017, 11:50:38 am
I think at one point, somebody sent me that script of Manjimaru with the various folders... It looked like somebody had translated a few of the lines, too. There were files with graphics included at some parts. It looked like they extracted images of the villagers, or something. I think Esperknight showed it to me. Oh, yeah. I actually have the folder on this computer. Looks like it's from 2012. It's HTML. That must be what stopped me from actually working on it.

(https://s29.postimg.org/4hiv29e1j/preview.jpg)

I think we both have that document. The original site is here http://www.geocities.jp/mja_652/game/pce/tengai2.html (http://www.geocities.jp/mja_652/game/pce/tengai2.html). You probably already know of this one, but there's another site that has the scripts as well over here: http://www.reilou.sakura.ne.jp/tengai/jipang/index.shtml (http://www.reilou.sakura.ne.jp/tengai/jipang/index.shtml)

I originally used the scrapbook app in Firefox to rip the pages from the very site before,  so I already had a head start on it before Esperknight ever mentioned it to me(as scrapbook allows you to edit it as plaintext right into the file). I've poked at a few major scenes and such, but gameplay-wise, I only really got to Benten's tower before focusing on one of my actual projects. I was needing to replay the game anyway.

As for dismembership, apparently the Japanese version of Until Dawn completely blacked out a character's dismemberment scene back and forth while still retaining the audio and other camera angles, so the outcome came out rather jarring to look at for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on January 31, 2017, 12:28:19 pm
Soft subtitles, eh? Talk about thinking out of the box. That's a really nice idea. And not only for the PSP version, but even the vanilla PCE one (well, if it's emulated).

Back when Zerogair (PC-FX) was being translated, when no one could think the lead programmer could pull off the feat of actually re-encoding parts of the MPEG FMV to have subtitles added, I think the emulator developer behind mednafen offered to add support for soft subtitles just for this kind of situations.
If both PCE Xanadu games and this were being worked on, it could generate enough interest for this feature to be incorporated in that emulator and the soft subs called whenever specific bits of audio are being read off the disk. It's time all those fancy HUD in emulators are put to better use than just chat.

About the CERO thing.
Dunno if you're aware of that, but the PSP version of TM IV was affected much more than this one. Just one example out of many is some of the final rooms in the game full of more and more blood and human skulls with eerie humming in the background as you advance, but conspicuously empty and silent in the PSP version. It was released at the same time as TM II DS, and it seems there was some turmoil over CERO around 2006, with Riviera being more toned down in sexual content than its US version (a first), and even Itoi citing pressure about keeping that CERO A rating when developing Mother 3.

And one more thing Tom, I hope this (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144606983/tm2/tmz_testroom1.srm) might be of some use to you (at least for testing the festivals). Put it wherever snes9x or your emulator of choice stores the saves (should throw an RTC error, but otherwise boots fine).  I wanted to send this your way earlier, but sadly lost my notes regarding it - this is just what I cobbled up together quickly today, but expect more detailed info (notably, the addresses that need to be changed) later. I found 4 such rooms but this is the most interesting one. You could also warp to any other room in the game, provided you also modified other X/Y PC coordinate info to avoid spawning stuck in the scenery - I had made a big list earlier but sadly... :/

As for membership, apparently the Japanese version completely blacked out a character's dismemberment scene back and forth while still retaining the audio and other camera angles, so the outcome came out rather jarring to look at for the wrong reasons.

Fubuki? Or the mother's doppleganger?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on January 31, 2017, 12:45:50 pm
Soft subtitles, eh? Talk about thinking out of the box. That's a really nice idea.
(...)
Fubuki? Or the mother's doppleganger?

I'd love to see a soft-sub approach to the cutscenes, especially if it meant having all 3(pardon, 4) games from the pce collection in one bundle.

Also, thanks for catching that! I spaced out on adding the title of the game! Until Dawn had the scene in question, not Manjimaru.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on January 31, 2017, 01:12:32 pm
Yeah, I really think soft subtitles is the way to go... Having the game fully translated would help the push for such a feature to be added. All in good time! Ziria first! I want them to get them out in the proper order!

But wow, the PSP Apocalypse was censored too, huh? I wasn't aware! Ugh, that's depressing! There should be an uncensoring patch for that one, as well... I own the Saturn version and PSP versions, but I don't have a Saturn to play on... I should probably download a Saturn emulator again, when I have more time. I prefer the PSP's battles now since they're slightly more interactive with the timing bar, but if the Saturn's uncensored, I should give it another spin.

As for modern day Japanese censorship, I refuse to buy any western game release in Japan. They always censor them and rate them Z... And in the case of Infamous: Second Son (which is rated T in America)... They obviously didn't need to censor it, but... "Well, it's an American game, and it has violence, so... Stick a Z on there anyway." (Meanwhile, Ryu ga Gotoku gets a D...) I really wanted to get Until Dawn, but I knew better, and I'm glad I didn't get it.

The debug SRM file you offered is a godsend, especially the jumping to the credits feature, because DDStranslation would have to wait until he beat the game to reach them, otherwise. (The credits will be a doozy to hack... Top to bottom, right to left, Japanese style... And instead of scrolling from top to bottom, they scroll from left to right...) I've translated them all in a text file already, but I still shudder when I see them play out.

But... I'd kinda feel bad about having him watch the credits before he's beaten the game. The credits are hilarious (it's probably the best credits roll I've seen in ANY game - very charming), but I feel that the impact would be lost if he saw them without having beaten the game and gotten to know all of the characters, so maybe I'll let him wait until he's beaten the game anyway.

Still, it will be good to have this save so we don't have to beat the boss every time to access them!

I'll fix up the debug menus so the windows display everything properly and everything's lined up with the cursors just right in English. I've been wanting to do that ever since I translated the debug text, and now I finally can get it aligned, thanks to you!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on January 31, 2017, 04:16:43 pm
Even if I don't have the time to play these games anymore nor ever was I myself a huge "RPG" fan, I'd like to thank all the people involved in getting the Tengai Makyou series translated into English to help it get the acknowledgement it deserves in the West. I bought and played Daiyon no Mokushiroku at its release date without any knowledge of the Japanese language and was in awe from the beginning to the end. It was for being a Tengai Makyou game (or a game with Yoshiteru Tsujino's designs, most likely) what made me bite and never regretted it despite my opinions on the genre and little understanding of the story.

So I can't encourage you enough to give this game a try to let the people know once and for all what they (we) missed. Hopefully, in its original Sega Saturn version. It's a game designed for it and tiny screens such as PSP's just make it lose much of its impact. I'm aware not many have a SS these days, much less a CRT TV to play it how it should be, but still. Censorship is another reason, of course, even if they added new scenes a tweaked a bit the combat in the toy version to compensate.

Anyway, Manjimaru is most likely a priority and, even if I never played it, it's a crucial game in the genre's history, so I can sympathize with that.



Did you know they did a remake of the remake for Ziria?

(http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/gmw/docs/374/294/ten05.jpg) (http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/gmw/docs/374/294/ten09.jpg)

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/374294.html

Not sure if that would be the ultimate version for those not caring about inches! (Not kidding.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on January 31, 2017, 10:13:59 pm
Tom:

Optional stuff? Tell me more! One thing that has intrigued me is that screenshot showing a one on one giant robot battle with tallies as health. It's always nice to hear of the deviations from the standards that I'm used to. Also those screenshots I saw were very interesting, with what looks like automated battle plans, how hard is the game?

I like "Far East of Eden", besides the fact that it is named after one of my favorite books of all time, but it is also a very clever pun on that book's title. Maybe that could be the title to a spiritual successor KS (Somewhat East of Eden) if nothing is still done with the property in a year or two, although we could run into a Mighty No.9-like fiasco.

I hate if this sounds uninformed but I am curious is it easier to patch in a fan dub, or a sub?

Personally, any game that includes a greater interactive battle element is worth listing at some point, even if I don't remember loving it, I spent hours and hours on "The Legend of Dragoon", possibly a little bit with the battle system.

You all should have a name, like the "Far East of Eden" team or "Tengai Makyou" team. Would make it more official to viewing audiences, just a thought of course.

Cargodin:

Welcome to the thread, one thing I've noticed about the PC-Engine CD, at least, is in how few games were even released in the west. I wouldn't be surprised if companies felt that localizing titles for the thing was going to be very unprofitable, even though you had Cosmic Fantasy II, for example, over on the console.

Ghanmi:

Just one question, is there a drop of quality between the DS and PSP/PC-Engine CD versions (Manjimaru) or is the DS version better?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on January 31, 2017, 10:32:54 pm
I think the Xanadu translations are going with a fan-dub for the voiced cutscenes because they just couldn't fit coding for subs.

Actually, it was always supposed to have a fan-dub, and subtitles are/were a secondary goal, with a textfile for the scripts as the backup.

The idea has always been to offer an optional localization-dub, for those that want it, to get the end-product as-close-as-possible to what would have been done if it had been brought to the US back-in-the-day.

That's only really possible for us because Falcom released the *entire* background music to both games on CD, so that we've got clean tracks to overlay the new voices onto.

I don't know if you've even got the same option available to you, however much extra work it is, and whether you approve of fan-dubs at all.


Back when Zerogair (PC-FX) was being translated, when no one could think the lead programmer could pull off the feat of actually re-encoding parts of the MPEG FMV to have subtitles added, I think the emulator developer behind mednafen offered to add support for soft subtitles just for this kind of situations.

Yeah, I've gotta assume that that was before EsperKnight and SamIAm found the PC-FX Developer SDK online with the video compressor tool. That must have been back in 2012-or-so before the project got rebooted.

Anyway, from what I've been told, the subtitling system is already built into Mednafen.

Here's the basic info from one of the guys at PCEngineFX ...

Quote
It's possible (I have a build of mednafen that has a 68k core running as accessible via ports on the PCE hardware bank).
...
It actually had its own bitmap display the overlaid the PCE display. Ports on the hardware bank, which is always mapped, was used to communicate with it and the PCE processor. The idea was that initially you load a script file, and code block, to the 68k via these ports. Then when the game runs, when it receives a special command - it displays an overlaid subtitled script for length of time. The idea was to hook all CDPLAY and ADCPLAY routines to write the sector arguments to the ports as well, which would hash into a lookup table to start the overlay script - instant subtitling for cinemas and ADPCM parts of Japanese games.

There was also 1k of ram for the PCE hack/hook code to use, mapped in the hardware bank open bus area as well.


If both PCE Xanadu games and this were being worked on, it could generate enough interest for this feature to be incorporated in that emulator and the soft subs called whenever specific bits of audio are being read off the disk. It's time all those fancy HUD in emulators are put to better use than just chat.

Well, if someone else is going to use the feature, then I might have to get off my lazy behind and use it too.

If I've not gone stir-crazy after spending XX months trying to fix up the lip-sync in the cutscenes to match the new dub.  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on January 31, 2017, 11:01:26 pm
If I've not gone stir-crazy after spending XX months trying to fix up the lip-sync in the cutscenes to match the new dub.  ;)

Hopefully the actors/actress you guys get will be able to lip-sync to the preexisting lip-flaps good enough that that work will be unnecessary. I remember with the Ys IV dub that my brother was able to get some performances that matched up pretty well while others had to be massaged a bit.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 01, 2017, 03:53:34 am
Recapnation: Well, PSP games can be played on a full screen with an adapter. They can also be played via emulator in full screen (and look really good). I believe that you can even get any PSP game running on a Vita TV in full screen now. I don't think it's right to dismiss it as a "toy version." I think it's a perfectly valid way to play. Although I do have a newfound respect for the Saturn version now, knowing that it is uncensored.

Manjimaru is not the priority for me, even if it is the most popular. The priority is Ziria. I think that the series should be played in order. Oriental Blue is an offshoot and Zero is a reboot. They were intended for people who were new to the series, so I don't mind translating them first... But for the main series, I think skipping titles would be a disservice, because it's always hard to go backwards into a series' history.

The Ziria remake for cell phones DOES look great. Beautiful graphics. It's a shame that it was not a one-time download. It was one of those games were you had to "phone in" for the next chapter whenever you completed a segment.

Merr Man, there's a ton of optional content that I don't want to spoil, some of it relating to the real time clock, but most is available all year long. You can sometimes find an arcade dealer that will let you play the robot battle mini-game that you mentioned seeing (either in one-player or two-player mode)! There's also an arcade machine like the old "Snake" game where you keep eating and getting bigger. There's also a shooting game, a timed maze with multiple goals and prizes, a treasure hunt, gambling, and a whole bunch more. Again, I don't want to spoil too much. I want to save some surprises for when you play the game.

The battle plans are customizable auto strategies to make battles go by without as many button presses. Most games make auto default to melee attacks, but in this game, you can customize each strategy with exactly what you want the character to do. If you see a bunch of weak enemies, go with an all-melee plan. You can put spells and skills into another plan for when you encounter stronger enemies... Or have a balanced plan. Using this, you can beat battles with far fewer button presses, so it's a good idea to make use of them. It's entirely customizable, so you can make certain characters move automatically while others are still controlled manually, if you wish... You hold the B button to cancel whatever plan you're using.

The game is paced well, so there's little need to grind if you're exploring everything. It's not that hard, though the boss is a doozy without the ultimate summon... The problem is that the ultimate summon looks really goofy, so using it against the final boss really spoils the mood of the final battle. A true Tengai Makyou Zero fanatic will try to beat the game without relying on the ultimate summon, and that would be truly hard.

I'm all for a spiritual successor. I would call it "Far West of Eden."

As for a "team name," I don't think it's necessary, because it's not like the four of us are planning to collaborate on something else afterwards (not ruling it out either, though). Mainly, a team name would take emphasis away from the contributions of others like Lost Templar and byuu, who do deserve a share of the credit. I think this is just a case of individuals coming together for the greater good, and it should remain that way.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 01, 2017, 08:41:16 am
Tom:

The optional content, in the game, does sound a little bit inventive for its time almost creating that "persistent open world" vibe before games like Majora's Mask arrived on the market, in fact I don't know if any other 16-bit JRPG had as many mini-games as what you just described, certainly not any game that was released in the west (even FFVI just had that coliseum), although what really makes my mouth water, in terms of optional content, would be optional bosses and dungeons, but that is just me.

That actually sounds very convenient, I usually don't do "auto" in any RPG I play for fear that the characters will just waste whatever magic, or items, that they have. I think that reading what you've been writing makes me understand why this game is held in high esteem, it's not a grindfest, in fact it is convenient, and has a lot of stuff to do, that works within its own unique mechanic.

"Ultimate summon", so there are summons in this game? I really hate spoiling the game for myself, but this all sounds very interesting, I don't think that I could take the challenge, but it is good to know that there are two options to dealing with the big baddie.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 01, 2017, 12:55:28 pm
I wouldn't call it a "persistent open world." It's is a fairly linear traditional JRPG experience, especially at the beginning when your options are limited. There aren't really optional dungeons in Zero, but there are optional towns (as in, towns that never need to be visited in order to beat the game) and there is an optional boss. The location of that boss isn't really big enough to call a dungeon, though. Maybe you could call it an optional dungeon, I guess. It's just a very, very small optional dungeon.

The game's not a grind-fest at all. You can actually walk straight to the first boss and second boss without stopping to gain levels or even build your equipment up (you'll burn through all of your healing items doing that, but it's possible).

There are summons in the game, but the game doesn't call them "summons." As for what they really are, well... Wait and find out in the game. By the way, they're mentioned in the very first town in the game, so it's not much of a spoiler, I think.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 01, 2017, 01:09:18 pm

I'm all for a spiritual successor. I would call it "Far West of Eden."

Yeah, a western RPG with kabuki playing both as a cowboy and indian. One female companion with a coyote, oil salesmen as a protagonist...
(https://s29.postimg.org/wrabbcin7/Untitled_505.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wrabbcin7/)

As for a "team name," I don't think it's necessary, because it's not like the four of us are planning to collaborate on something else afterwards (not ruling it out either, though).

How about descendants of Dr. P.H. Chada? Chada's Jipang initiative? Orientals clan?

The guy who translated Mother 3 is translating TM 4 - Apocalypse live on Twitch.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/111683256
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on February 01, 2017, 07:30:34 pm
Recapnation: Well, PSP games can be played on a full screen with an adapter. They can also be played via emulator in full screen (and look really good). I believe that you can even get any PSP game running on a Vita TV in full screen now. I don't think it's right to dismiss it as a "toy version." I think it's a perfectly valid way to play. Although I do have a newfound respect for the Saturn version now, knowing that it is uncensored.

You (everybody) should find a way to play it on a RGB CRT monitor. It's miles away from any of those solutions you mention, which always involve upscaling. Scaling and 2-D visuals, particulary dot art, should never go together (unless it's part of the game's design itself), and Daiyon no Mokushiroku's dot art deserves the best of the attentions.

But yeah, I know.



Quote
Manjimaru is not the priority for me, even if it is the most popular. The priority is Ziria. I think that the series should be played in order. Oriental Blue is an offshoot and Zero is a reboot. They were intended for people who were new to the series, so I don't mind translating them first... But for the main series, I think skipping titles would be a disservice, because it's always hard to go backwards into a series' history.

Again, I can agree. Ziria is a seminal piece, even more than the sequel, being the first "RPG" with full caracterization thanks to the redbook audio and animation-style cutscenes -- those were already a thing on the PC side, but never before with the magnitude of Ziria's. Always thought of Daiyon no Mokushiroku as an offshot too, with just some characters related to previous games and little else. But I can understand why it won't be touched until even Fuu-Un Kabuki Den is done. Best of the lucks in any case, sir; it's an overwhelming labor and everybody should respect and appreciate.



Quote
The Ziria remake for cell phones DOES look great. Beautiful graphics. It's a shame that it was not a one-time download. It was one of those games were you had to "phone in" for the next chapter whenever you completed a segment.

That's too bad. Seems Tsujino wasn't involved at that point, so well, there's that.


I'm reading a Kabuki Rocks mention here and indeed it was never part of Tengai Makyou. It even has more Atlus' staff than Red's, who essentially created the scenario and some character art (by Kennosuke Mizutani, of Tengai Makyou fame) as they used to. Tengai Makyou is at least as much a Hudson product as it is a Red one.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 01, 2017, 09:59:48 pm
Tom:

Still, all of that content does get me very excited, for some reason I thought that it was town, dungeon, town, dungeon with very little in between but I was wrong, also very nice to hear that there is an optional boss, and that you may not have to fight in a huge dungeon to get to it. This is all making me pretty excited for the game.

dejan:

Would be the closest thing to a new Wild Arms game.

As far as the Twitch stream goes for "Tomato", loved his work on Mother III, and the fact that he is livestreaming "Apocalypse" is pretty helpful. I wonder what will happen, once he is finished, he did revive some basic hacking helpers for Tomato Adventure after that livestream.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 01, 2017, 10:35:38 pm
Recap: I heard that the Apocalypse graphics were recreated for the PSP, not scaled... So you see more on the screen at one time than you would have seen on the Saturn. (The fact that they were recreated let them censor the graphics while they were at it, it seems.)

Merr Man: Tengai Makyou Zero has a variety of regions. Some of them are linear, while some of them are open-ended. It mixes things up pretty well, and each location in the game has its own distinct feel, not just in terms of the graphics, but also in how things are spread out.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on February 01, 2017, 10:47:05 pm
It's obviously way far in the future if ever happening, but if Apocalypse happened, would it be after Namida, which I'm guessing is the last "main" game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on February 02, 2017, 04:56:31 am
Recap: I heard that the Apocalypse graphics were recreated for the PSP, not scaled... So you see more on the screen at one time than you would have seen on the Saturn. (The fact that they were recreated let them censor the graphics while they were at it, it seems.)

That's right, if by "recreated" you mean this:

(https://s27.postimg.org/ga852ybib/daiyon.png)

(they just expanded the visible area to keep the 1 : 1 graphics)

The port was made with love and care in this regard, though having such a large visible area also goes against the visual impact, since the sprites look tiny while they're actually quite big originally for an "RPG". Old fart-sounding arguments, mine, I know (I only play on CRTs in 2017, after all), but... the game is indeed old. And what they did to the PSP version, despite being the best solution for the system, is still an amendment.

Anyway, what I meant is that any solution which consists in displaying the PSP game full-screen on a flat panel involves upscaling, since it's originally a 480 x 272 screen. That would ruin some of the most charming graphics you'll find in the 32-bit systems, no matter how you try to alleviate the effects aftermath.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 02, 2017, 07:35:24 pm
From what I heard, they didn't have access to all of the original material from the Saturn days, so they had to remake stuff, not just reuse it. But I don't have any source for that... And it might have just been an excuse to censor the graphics you spoke of...

Still, the graphics don't appear to be exactly the same, even in the pictures you provided. Compare the water in the fountain, for instance. It doesn't appear as pixelated, and the blade of grass seem to be more distinct and a slightly different shade of color (darker, maybe?) Then again, this might just be differences in how the images were saved. I don't know enough about image editing to say, and I'm not a very visual person.

I appreciate the dedication to pixel-perfect displays, though. I agree further we get from the originals, the worse it gets. It's a gaming visual tragedy what's happened with the smartphone versions of Final Fantasy VI, for instance... And while the effect of the Apocalypse PSP port is not that noticeable to me in comparison, there's something about the PSP versions of Final Fantasy 1 and 2 that I just can't accept.

So yeah, I totally understand anybody who would reject it.

But going back to TM Zero, here's an update...

There are more debug options that aren't available in this debug save that was sent over. If possible, I'd like to see some of those other, "less interesting" rooms, because I'd like to check the formatting of the other debug menu options.

That said, the festival area jump option will really help for extracting shrine booth and event graphics... And testing the text more easily!

I realized that the festival events won't really carry over well to other countries. In Japan, people would say... "Oh, it's time for Setsubun... I wonder what sort of event TM Zero is doing now..."

But in general, people from other countries won't have this inclination (most not even knowing what Setsubun is), and the holidays will just seem like random events that they happen to stumble onto. If they want to experience the festivals, they'll have to make specific plans to visit a shrine on a certain date after hearing an NPC mention them.

It's a small consolation that there's a character in the game whose sole purpose seems to be explaining what happens, and where, on whatever date.

Fortunately, the game also does a pretty good job of explaining what each festival means, and showing what sort of things happen... So it can actually teach people something about Japanese festivals, I guess! Well, "Jipang's" festivals. (There are a few differences.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on February 02, 2017, 10:52:34 pm
From what I heard, they didn't have access to all of the original material from the Saturn days, so they had to remake stuff, not just reuse it. But I don't have any source for that... And it might have just been an excuse to censor the graphics you spoke of...

Still, the graphics don't appear to be exactly the same, even in the pictures you provided. Compare the water in the fountain, for instance. It doesn't appear as pixelated, and the blade of grass seem to be more distinct and a slightly different shade of color (darker, maybe?) Then again, this might just be differences in how the images were saved. I don't know enough about image editing to say, and I'm not a very visual person.

It's possible they were able to rip their own assets and convert them or just rebuild them from scratch. The water looks like it has a different opacity, as the stones in the bottom of the fountain are hardly visible in the PSP shot. I don't know anything about retro graphics and sprite utilization, particularly between two consoles but I imagine it's a hardware thing. The color contrast also took a hit, although I agree the PSP port is still particularly sharp looking in the town maps.

More on the final dungeon in TMA4 though. I never noticed anything missing from the PSP version in the final dungeon on the graphics front, but there is one cut line in the game. It's the only one I ever spotted, but it'd be worth a side-by-side play to see what of the NPCs were changed considerably, save for the "Indian -> Red Men" term swap.

Yuno says thus when the final boss reveals their intentions:
インディアンの伝説にもある…
この世界は何度となく
洪水で 滅んでいると…
(There's an Indian legend... which states this world was destroyed by flood a number of times...)

In the PSP script document for the scene, the line is replaced with:
※ここの台詞はカット
(※This line was cut.)

There's a lot more "racier" content in the game that wasn't blatantly cut, so I'd only surmise it was cut for one of two or three things: because a.) it was just a meh line, b.)  someone didn't appreciate that it blended in too much with Christianity for their taste - given Christianity/Revelations is a big overarching theme, I don't think this is it), or C.) it fucked with the TM lore somehow. I guess because 10 years later someone figured it made less sense for the world to be annihilated on multiple occasions or whatever. Not enough water sports in Far East of Eden proper to support the claim?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 03, 2017, 02:41:41 am
I highly doubt the PSP is just incapable of showing visible stones below water, so I don't think it would be a hardware issue. It seems to me that the graphics were retouched, rather than a case of just porting them straight and widening the view field. My guess is that they had to censor the graphics as they were told by people higher up, and the artist who did the retouching got a little creative with some other edits, just because they liked the look of it.

Cargodin, I know you said that flood line was unlikely to have been cut because it was too Biblical, but I think that's precisely why it was cut. A lot of developers in Japan are whitewashing references now, like Square Enix removing the crosses from shields in Dragon Quest, and always having the word kami translated as "goddess." Even the "God" enemy was renamed "Numan" (which is apparently some obscure word for God in a language nobody knows) in their preliminary English translation of Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2 Professional, included (dummied) in the Japanese release. They later changed the name of God a second time into "The Almighty" (much better, but still kind of avoiding the word) in the 3DS release of Dragon Quest VII.

Namco Bandai also called God Eater "Gods Eater" for the first English release to sound less blasphemous. It's clear that Japanese developers are holding back as much as they can on account of avoiding international controversy.

TM Lore doesn't have to confirm Yuno's claim. She herself calls it an Indian legend. It's just a story that was passed down. Doesn't make it true. It's just food for thought.

In any case, what's clear is that Japan is a terrible place for censorship these days. I wish that they'd leave the old games alone, at least.

Either way, this thread is kind of turning into an Apocalypse thread. Maybe this is my cue to just focus on Zero.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on February 03, 2017, 04:53:16 am
I wouldn't doubt the PSP is capable of transluscent sprites, but I do think it appears in a different opacity by default after the hardware swap and the graphics team never had time/bothered to tinker with it to make it totally accurate or, like you suggested, did it to touch up on a whim based on personal aesthetic. Something just makes me wonder why the color contrast took a shot.

The explanation for religious censorship makes sense too. I'm curious as to why it is like that in a Japanese release of a game though, unless they considered it ahead of time in another shot at an English publisher picking the game up.

But you're right. Sorry for further derailing the thread. ": )
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on February 03, 2017, 10:58:27 am
Sorry for the late reply:

I like "Far East of Eden", besides the fact that it is named after one of my favorite books of all time, but it is also a very clever pun on that book's title. Maybe that could be the title to a spiritual successor KS (Somewhat East of Eden) if nothing is still done with the property in a year or two, although we could run into a Mighty No.9-like fiasco.
(...)
I hate if this sounds uninformed but I am curious is it easier to patch in a fan dub, or a sub?
(...)
Just one question, is there a drop of quality between the DS and PSP/PC-Engine CD versions (Manjimaru) or is the DS version better?

A Kickstarter with Konami involved isn't something to look forward to.
Apparently they were to handle a localization for Namida (well, the PS2 retelling anyways. Original is probably lost forever but there's stunning concept art floating around, and Haruka, a short novella by the game's writer with the actual plot and different names to be copyright-friendly).
But something went really wrong in 2004 and they mishandled lots of their overseas releases, so Ninja Cop (Hudson) got a very limited release with little fanfare, and Boktai 3 and TM3:Namida were just cancelled (their English versions, I mean).

About TM2:
Original PCE version is uncensored, but some battle screens and chiptune music really showed how lacking the hardware was. There's loading times before each battle too. And tons of flashing (probably why there's no Nintendo Virtual Console release?).
There was a remake on the GC/PS2, but it's a half-baked abortion, for the lack of a better word. Seems like the budget was slashed, so you get badly pixellated 2D enemies, cheaply animated cutscenes (the one that had the most effort put into it was because much of it was redone because of the violence), and 30 FPS low-poly 3D areas missing the cel-shading from the promo screens that was supposed to mask how ugly it was.
On the upside, they replaced the horrible chiptune music (which was in the PCE version just because of audio streaming limitations) with orchestrated stuff, and had high quality versions of the returning original recordings. DS version tried to fit all of that audio and voice acting in under 128MB so there's some tracks affected by this slight quality loss (still possible to import high PS2/PCE audio in the DS version) and is otherwise a 1:1 port of the PCE version minus some cuts (unless you're stuck up on the aspect ratio being pixel-perfect rather than crunched for CRTs).

About voice acting:
While in this game in particular, the original voice acting sounds really amateurish and comparable in quality to average-to-bad English game dubbing from that same era (though to its credit it's one of the first games ever to attempt voice acting in games, a novelty for its time), I'm not of the opinion that English voice acting would really fit such a Japanese game, but besides slight preference (I'm in no way feeling strongly either way about it) that it's not like any fan dub for this would be worse than the original.
And if the official English PCE release wasn't cancelled, it would have English acting much like Falcom's Legend of Heroes and other stuff released by NEC. Having the option between both (if only to appreciate Kabuki and Manto) would be nice though.

In the PSP script document for the scene, the line is replaced with:
※ここの台詞はカット
(※This line was cut.)

I knew the PSP version carried over the unused graphics from the Saturn version, but commented out lines is news to me. :o

Now with that out of the way, it would be better not to derail this topic any further, even though I'm dying to chat about this awesome yet obscure series. Back to Zero!

But going back to TM Zero, here's an update...

There are more debug options that aren't available in this debug save that was sent over. If possible, I'd like to see some of those other, "less interesting" rooms, because I'd like to check the formatting of the other debug menu options.

About that, each time the game saves, the SRAM area from $0260 to $0265 is overwritten with current objective data, as well as where the player spawns when loading that save.

$0260 (SRAM): horizontal scrolling center position, 1 byte
$0262 (SRAM): horizontal player position, 1 byte
Preferably the same, otherwise severe visual glitches.

$0261 (SRAM): vertical scrolling center position, 1 byte
$0263 (SRAM): vertical player position, 1 byte
Idem.

$0264 (SRAM): Map ID, 1 byte.

Some invalid map IDs load various other game screens often resulting in crashes, like the map screen, but also some early text-based versions of a very primitive Nethack-esque battle interface and overscan test screens. They have text of their own, but I doubt it's even worth it to translate (and it's the 8x8 font, meaning you'd have to do extra hacking work for something probably not even functional anymore - and according to some Japanese sites, it was spotted in early promotional footage but behaves practically the same as the final battle system except without the nice graphics, and sound, and stuff):

00 = grid + a transition test? no text
1D = same as 00?
1E = grid + some transportation BGM
1F = grid + hikage mura BGM (also 20,23,25,2F?)
2A = X menu prototype / glitch?
2B = the alpha battle interface, though it's stuck at the screen with "Win / Lose"
2C = glitch? black screen with the sound effects from the summons. (2D,2E are similar, but each has its different set)

Now for the interesting stuff:

22 = the test room you should be familiar with by now.
24 = another test room with a warp to a monster farm, some chests (unresponsive empty one, blue one, already looted one, 3980 ryo, and hoshi no hikari). Main shrine sometimes warps you to the expensive 10000 ryo inn, but more often to a festival arena.
26 = Set vertical position to 2C to avoid spawning in the scenery and getting stuck. A decorated room. No NPCs and unescapable. Probably cutscene-only or unfinished (maybe a Shounen Jump-ban exclusive?)
27 = Same entry method as for 26. Another decorated, yet unescapable room.
28 = Festival square with buggy exit. Might hold something of interest?
29 = Same entry method and observations as 26. This time it's an inn?

As for normal areas, here are some values of interest. Format is MAP ID (X, Y).
Useless warps, as in too glitchy to be of any use (no exits working, no NPCs, but signposts might still work) with just modifying spawn point in the save data, will be marked with *, but I'm including the IDs anyways just in case there's an alternate method to access them (probably with editing the ID in the RAM instead). As you can guess, much of the "useless" ones are places you weren't supposed to be able to save inside anyways.

(spoils some in-game events)

Spoiler:
30 (0A, 1C) = Hikage Village
33 (0A, 1C) = Life Forest
35 (0A, 1C) = Reido's Ice palace, prisoner room, conveniently just before the first major boss fight
43 (09, 2F) = Weapon Shop in the Ice Mountain Village (for once, something that works!)
44 (09, 2F) = Same as 43, except the village is defrosted and Hisui already begun the ritual. (doesn't actually affect the story flags, so if you go out and come back, it's back to how it should be at that time, depending on whether you brought the hot water / felled Raido)
48 (09, 2F) = Fire Clan Village
4A (09, 2F) = Higuma Shrine
4B (0A, 2F) = Golden Castle, entrance. It's originally as buggy as the other "useless" warps, but when you hit an invisible cutscene trigger, the scene with Super Fortune Cat-king III pawning the party starts, except everyone is invisible. After that it kicks you out to the overworld of Inegami Province, but then the glitchiness is cancelled and you can explore with no side effects!
4C (0A, 2F) = Golden Castle, midway in the dungeon.
5C (0F, 1F) = Sakin Village (inegami province), shop.
5E (0F, 26) = Gold Lode village
5F (0F, 26) = Ootora Town (same interior as 26?)

Spoiler:
*31 = Miners HQ, but NPC-less
*32 (seems to ignore coordinates) = Mine
*34 = Hisui's house
*36, *37 = more glitchy ice palace rooms
*38 = cavern where you choose the girl to get laid with
*39 = overworld. For some reason you spawn way offscreen in the sea. Using (30,50) you can get to the first continent just above Hikage Village, but no entrances are actually working. Also this is the whole overworld including even inaccessible areas.
*3A = buggy town (I think the same where Higan gets married?) Only egg shop works properly.
*3B = buggy animal spirit shrine exterior? (or another test room? I can't tell :3 )
*3C = ice mt. village where you get Subaru, but after the ice melted. Nothing works.
*3D = 3C when still frozen. Nothing works. Not even the ice on the lake is there, with visual glitches as a result.
*3E = 3C when still frozen, now with a transparent ice shell serving as the shitty stock video-game sliding ice puzzle (I hated that in IV too)
*3F = 3C when still frozen, now with a double serving of the transparent ice shell. Exit doesn't work, but the object telling you it needs some hot water to melt it is still there.
*40 = tunnel, related to 3C
*41 = fire clan village
*42 = inn
*45,46 = ice mt. village, ritual room
*47 = fire clan village, room where higan meets the felled king
*49 = sennin dou (how is that kanji even written?) - buggy wiseman cave/shrine/???
*4E = Inegami province overworld (3F, 2F is a good starting point). As buggy as the other overworld.
*4F = Gold Lode Mt.
*50 = Gold Palace, room with the golden statues. Nothing works.
*51 = buggy 4C?
*52 = buggy Golden Castle entrace
*53 = Golden Castle major fifth (?) boss room, except the boss is a no-show and nothing works. (0F, 1F)
*54 = Inegami shrine, exterior
*55 = Inegami shrine, interior
*56 = Ootora town
*57 = Inegami town
*58 = Hanamaru town
*59 = room with glitchy printer machine
*5A = devil waterfall
*5B = same as 5A?
*5D = three courtesans room (ignores coordinates, stuck)

I'll look at rooms (60-3E) later.
The buggy or apparently empty rooms might be that way because of how the room is loaded this way.
If you don't mind Tom, what was the test menu stuff you found about, besides that one room? (Considering it seems less and less likely to find it still intact and working in the game...)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on February 03, 2017, 12:17:23 pm
Even the "God" enemy was renamed "Numan" (which is apparently some obscure word for God in a language nobody knows)
I welcome our overlord Wayne Knight. ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Avicalendriya on February 03, 2017, 01:37:36 pm
Even the "God" enemy was renamed "Numan"

(https://41.media.tumblr.com/c9b44187089c7510069b1a7a7b7fce7c/tumblr_nvlhgb0leu1ud3zoyo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 03, 2017, 09:31:59 pm
GHANMI,

Wow, that's pretty bad. I love the Boktai games, I thought that I downloaded a complete English patch for the third game, but I haven't played it yet. Namida, during a time when the PS2 had tons and tons of RPGs for the system, I would've imagined something like that to be possible (an English release). What I've read is that 2004 was a year after the relaunch of Hudson's NA branch, renamed to Hudson Entertainment, Inc. from Hudson Soft USA, so maybe it was a little bit of a rough beginning.

The DS version of 2 does sound like the version that I would want to play, based on your response, still as long as it is translated, in some form, I am completely OK with that.

I'm more into the idea of "dubbing", but I do agree about the authenticity of having it remain in its original language.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 04, 2017, 03:55:27 am
If you don't mind Tom, what was the test menu stuff you found about, besides that one room? (Considering it seems less and less likely to find it still intact and working in the game...)

Couldn't find these lines of debug text in the test room you sent:

1. お祭りのでばっくよ


 孔雀神社   亀岡神社
 火熊神社   鶴見神社
 犬神神社   六(ろく)

2. 50000両ふやしました
お祭りはいるフラグおんする?

3. ウインドウのでばっぐです
おしごと たいへんでしょう
がんばって くださいね

4. だれを見ますか?
0 1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 人

Finding line four is the priority. It's pretty clear how to format the other lines, but to get the numbers spaced out properly, I'll need to see this window in-game.

#1 has a very similar line that does appear in the test room, but it doesn't have a the first line calling it a Festival Debug. It's in a different part of the script. Also, I have a question about the terms in one of the debug menus:

MUS EFC EFC2
JGM JGE

It's kind of obvious what these are, except for "JGM" and "JGE." Should that be "BGM" and "BGE" instead?  Background music and background effects? I'm not familiar with the term JGM and JGE, and I wasn't able to dig up what they mean. For the moment, I've left everything as-is, but if BGM and BGE are better terms, I'll change them.

I'm really interested in that text-based battle system. Hopefully DDStranslation can make use of this information you've given to access it. (It's kinda beyond me.) Even if nobody ever sees it, I don't like to leave things unfinished.

-Tom
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on February 04, 2017, 07:06:51 am
I sent you those so that you cold try them on your own. Just get Geiger's debugger version for Snes9X, preferably the latest one, open that hex view option and select SRAM, then scroll down until you reach line 0260. As you might have guessed, since this is a hexadecimal viewer and there's 16 values per line, they'd go $0260, $0261... until $026F.
After being on the save select screen, you click with your mouse on the value you need to edit in that hex window and type it away. And then try in-game loading that save to see where it lands you. Of course, best to keep savestates to make the testing easier.

That said... it's entirely possible those bits are indeed in rooms I didn't find yet (in the 60 to FF range for the map ID) on in the "buggy" warps.

However if you really want to make sure they're well formatted, just sacrifice a normal NPC who gives you normal dialogue in an accessible place. There should be a pointer directing the game to where his speech starts, and you certainly have information about that pointer or else you wouldn't have the text dump at your position. This pointer points to the ROM location where his text starts. Make that pointer point to where those hidden messages are instead (considering you have them in your text dump, this means they have known pointers).
It's preferable to use an Action replay code operating in the ROM area (it would begin with something like Cx or 8x probably, dunno what's the ROM map for the weirdness that is TMZ's architecture) since it's a temporary measure you could just disable the code so that the NPC is back to normal.

By any chance, has DDS made a walk-through walls code for this game? That would be useful too. This game seems like a treasure trove.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 04, 2017, 11:23:46 am
My eyes kind of glaze over when I hear about hexidecimal editing. It may be so simple a monkey could do it, but it makes me feel like a four year old in an advanced calculus class. My brain just goes into "ignore" mode. I'll let DDStranslation handle the hex hacking. I don't know anything about pointers for individual character lines. (The script editing program that I use automates the entire process.)

The best I can do (and I often do this) is overwrite a nearby NPC's line (temporarily) with a formatted line that I can't view in context, make the appropriate edits, and then put the lines back in place... However, this won't work for lines that work in odd ways, or for windows like this that have movable cursors, since I won't be able to see or move the cursor. That wouldn't be a problem if, as you said, I could make the game point to the right place, but my editor doesn't have that ability, and as I said, I'm not equipped to make whatever changes are needed to facilitate that.

There's no walk-through walls code in the game. Right now, DDStranslation has been working on getting the credits to scroll properly. Last I heard, he changed the movement (which was originally left-to-right) so that the credits now scroll from top to bottom, fading out at the bottom at the proper spot... The next step is to get the credits themselves to be displayed horizontally, from left to right, in the proper order.

Tonight, I've continued translating the manual, and I've also updated the in-game item descriptions to be more helpful (using a very thorough Japanese guide for the game), so the player won't ever need to consult a guide to find out what special effects the weapons and equipment have. The original Japanese "descriptions" don't really give you ANY useful information about most of the items or skills! (It doesn't make sense for the scrolls, especially, considering that the hermits tell you what each scroll does when they give you the scroll - why would the description be "???" after you just heard the explanation!?) I've improved all of the necessary descriptions so that the player will always know what effects weapons, armor, accessories, scrolls, or skills have, if they have any. (For items without special effects, only the item's full name will be displayed. In the case of items with icon abbreviations to fit in the small font, the description window will always show whatever the fully-spelled-out name is.)

The English version will be much easier to play than the Japanese version because of this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on February 04, 2017, 03:58:10 pm
Thanks for the continued hard work.  Absolutely pumped to play this hopefully soon!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 05, 2017, 03:24:37 am
From DDS :

No pictures per request, but finished work on the staff roll for Tengai Makyou Zero. Changed from horizontal to vertical scrolling.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on February 05, 2017, 11:00:50 am
DDS is BEYOND AMAZING!!!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 06, 2017, 12:49:37 am
DDStranslation's work will be done before you know it! He's a machine!

The manual is so close to being done... Mostly minor stuff left, the boring legalese and addresses and that sort of thing at the end. It'll be fully translated within a week.

The thing is, there are a LOT of English screenshots that need to be grabbed for the manual, too... It'll take a careful replay to get all of the necessary screenshots using the finished rom, recreating everything that appears in the manual.

I'm considering releasing the packaging for the game shortly before the patch itself, once it's ready... Sort of as a teaser, to recreate that feeling we had in our childhood of excitedly flipping through a manual on the way home from the store, imagining what it was going to be like to finally get home and start playing it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 06, 2017, 11:39:42 am

I'm considering releasing the packaging for the game shortly before the patch itself, once it's ready... Sort of as a teaser, to recreate that feeling we had in our childhood of excitedly flipping through a manual on the way home from the store, imagining what it was going to be like to finally get home and start playing it.

You know me a little too well, I used to love purchasing new games, back in the late 90s-early 2000s, just because I loved going through the manuals that would come with them, in a few cases it was even more exciting than the actual game itself.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on February 06, 2017, 12:12:08 pm
I really like the idea of releasing the Engliah manual a little bit before the patch. Hypes up the final release and allows some time to read up and become familar with the game before you play it.

A little bit of a side-note: I was curious to know how many other groups had attempted to translate Tengai Makyou Zero before Tom and Lost Templar began working on it in 2012? I've heard that byuu had a long history with the game and I'm aware that DeJap was working on a translation in the early 2000s, which is how I first learned about the title, but I was wondering if anyone knew a timeline of all the different attempts to translate this game? I always love reading the "Project History" sections in readmes so I'm curious to know the history behind this translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on February 06, 2017, 12:17:03 pm
I've forgotten DeJap was even working on translating the game.
I only remember they were instrumental in getting the game emulated in the first place. (by releasing "graphics packs" of graphics pre-decompressed on an actual hacked console, before the SPC7110 was cracked so the game could be emulated proper)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on February 06, 2017, 03:33:11 pm
After Dejap's demise in the end of 2004, I believe tomato also considered translating this, before byuu & company.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on February 06, 2017, 04:54:29 pm
After Dejap's demise in the end of 2004, I believe tomato also considered translating this, before byuu & company.

I remember hearing that as well years ago but I thought that was a misunderstanding and that Tomato was never actually worked on Tengai Makyou Zero.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 06, 2017, 07:23:21 pm
I'm glad that you guys like the idea of releasing the package and manual translation earlier than the patch.

I don't know many details about the translation attempts before, so I can't clarify much about any timeline. In fact, even the dates of when I myself started working on it are getting foggy, at this point.

I know at one point that Tomato said that he didn't have enough time to work on Zero (which was good for me, because I really wanted to work on it). That was at some point after I'd finished translating Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai.

I am pretty sure dejap had a project listed way back when they released the graphics packs, but I think they had only listed their "percentage completed" as either 0% or 5%, or something like that. Not sure who was attached to the project at that point.

The very first substantial translation work was done by Lost Templar himself, into German. (I don't know if he ever finished his German translation, though.) He posted German screenshots of his WIP translation and said that he was looking for a translator for the English version. That's when I eagerly offered, translated it pretty quickly, and then... The project sat for years, until late December of last year.

Now it's nearly done. I'm sure that even if it was released in its current state, it would already be considered a great fan translation, but by the time we're done with it, it's going to be one of the best!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on February 06, 2017, 08:26:21 pm
I'll try to finish the game this week, getting all remaining graphics.
I think the graphical part will be finished maybe in two weeks from now. (I'm a little late)
There must be very little work left after that.

Tom put his heart in this translation. All texts are absurdly well done.
About the hacking DDS did an amazing job. Everything is very polished and beautiful. In my opinion he has done everything that people have dreamed of about this translation.
FlashPV is also doing an excelent job in the graphic's edition. I send him the raw graphics and pallete and after a short time he sends me everything 100% edited. He really knows how to edit graphics.

This translation was made, excluding me, by a dream team in romhacking, since Dejap's time till now, so you can expect an incredible translation.

Tom, DDS and FlashPV should work on other titles after Feoez. Such a team is rare to see.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on February 06, 2017, 08:29:38 pm
Thank you Tom for the info and thank you for the hard work you and the team are putting into this patch :)
It has been a long time coming and I can't wait to see what you guys have done with this amazing looking game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 06, 2017, 09:05:04 pm
Tom (and the TM Zero team),

We are all grateful for your long dedication to a project such as this, translating a paramount game, serving as a key member of the game's release involves a lot of responsibilities that will become a big deal starting the first moment the upload button is pushed. I hope that that isn't too much pressure, but it comes with the territory  ;).

It's unfortunate that the finished product will not come with a 66 page artbook with interviews ala Lunar: SSSC, though I am always curious on project motivations, including segments on how hard the journey has been, but I think, overall, it is a lot more important that a historical artifact of gaming will finally be seen by a new pair of eyes. I agree with DougRPG also, I think that the more translation teams the better, and I wouldn't be surprised to see subsequent positive efforts coming from you all in the future.

Every time I watch a video, or read a new announcement, that is detailing a game coming out this year, and people screaming with excitement about this year being such an exciting one for video games, it would be remiss of me to not include this game when it gets fully translated, and best of all no crying wallets!




Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on February 06, 2017, 09:26:32 pm
This translation was made, excluding me, by a dream team in romhacking, since Dejap's time till now, so you can expect an incredible translation.

Tom, DDS and FlashPV should work on other titles after Feoez. Such a team is rare to see.

C'mon, Doug, don't understimate your contribution, you also do it AMAZING!  Your name will pass through the ROMHacking & Traslating history as an important part of the guys' team whom did the undertaking of finally getting a happy ending to this almost infinite wait for this GEM!

I'm also awaiting this one since DeJap times, and I'm sure there are PLENTY of people more awaiting for it, and when it gets released and also gets known through specialized websites, so many people will turn unto this game.

BTW, Tom, which is the order someone should play this saga for the sake of following the storyline as it has been meant?

THANKS A LOT ONCE AGAIN, GUYS!!!  I just could hope this one couldn't be your first and last work together, but I understand if isn't possible to keep this way  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ddstranslation on February 06, 2017, 09:30:42 pm
DougRPG, man, don't sell yourself short. You are a great programmer as well, and I'm so glad you joined in to help. You already had studied the SPC7110 so much that it's trivial for you to make changes now.

FlashPV has done an amazing job redrawing all the graphics so far. I can't wait to play through the game for real to see all of the changes.

Tom's also been working really hard on constantly updating the script to fine-tune it. And I'll admit it's great watching him have to switch from his long hiatus to now sending multiple daily updates. You can just see his excitement growing with each new email.

I'm just glad I even got to be a part of all this. All I knew about this game was all the trouble decades ago that people had just trying to get the game to even run. I'm nowhere near the level of the other greats that have posted in this thread. And I constantly worry about every change I make. Hopefully the game will be up to everyone's expectations.

And I would love to work with any of you on anything in the future. Though after this, I think I've kept Avicalendriya waiting long enough, and I'll need to fulfill my other promises that I've made to people.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on February 06, 2017, 11:03:01 pm
Everyone who's worked on this shouldn't undersell yourselves---I was legit excited about this because I had seen some of the work you all had done before, and I don't doubt this is going to be great when it's done!

There are few threads on this board I check religiously, but this is one of them (really, the only one).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on February 06, 2017, 11:24:41 pm
DougRPG, man, don't sell yourself short.

hehe, I'm not underestimating myself. I only said that a dream team worked in this translation more in a sense of well-known people in the romhacking scene.
Since old Dejap and other guys doing SPC7110 research (so we can play the game in emulators today), passing through Byuu and LostTemplar, and now you guys, all people that worked on several other projects in the past.
I excluded myself because I'm relatively new in the scene. But I'm doing my best.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 06, 2017, 11:44:49 pm
From DDS :

Added support for converting numbers to appropriate formats. Month names, ordinal suffixes, and conversion of hours and minutes. New vs old.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C372RBGW8AERYIR.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C372SUGWAAAT2c0.jpg)

Testing out some cosmetic changes, like altering the color of text.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4CNr0BXAAAHnKp.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4CNtbpWQAAW5ZN.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2017, 06:11:24 am
Yep, Doug. You're a key player in this project; you're a part of why the game is where it is now. Maybe you're relatively new to hacking, but you're the one who got the graphics in, and had you not made that offer, this project might have only been halfway done at this point (instead of nearly done). You've certainly earned yourself some bragging rights.

A lot of people have contributed to make this game possible. Like you said, this translation also wouldn't have happened without the people who decoded the graphics for the rom... The fact is, this game will be playable because of everyone's contributions. That's why I'm glad that this is not an "official" team release. It's just a bunch of people who came together to finish a job that should have been done years ago.

FlashPV's work has been blazingly fast, too, hasn't it? Graphics are the stumbling block of many a fan-translation, and considering how many graphics are in this game, I had my concerns... But he really stepped up to the plate. He's an original thinker, and got very creative about how to express ideas graphically in a small space.

As for DDStranslation, he kinda downplays his skill too, but he's broken through every single hacking obstacle set before him, and usually on the same day that he sets out to do it. Hopefully, when the project is finished, he will play through the game and be satisfied with his work. Regardless, the menus and interface will be a testament to his skill in a way that would make any degree of modesty seem insincere.

I'm just trying to keep pace with the formatting and edits. My worry is that in the end, I myself might be the one keeping the project waiting, when both of you have finished your jobs and I'm still screwing around trying to figure where would be the best place to stick a line break in some random NPC's dialogue. ;)

Here's a bit of good news:

The manual and packaging translation has just been completed and  it's been handed off to the image editor! (It's Cargodin, another big Tengai Makyou fan, who has also created manuals for a couple of my other projects.) The manual itself is nearly 60 pages and comes with a fold-out map and skill list... Even the survey card and contest information slip will be translated, so the package will be truly complete. I also have a special idea that I'm sure will be of interest to Cargodin.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on February 07, 2017, 01:04:39 pm
The manual and packaging translation has just been completed and  it's been handed off to the image editor! (It's Cargodin, another big Tengai Makyou fan, who has also created manuals for a couple of my other projects.) The manual itself is nearly 60 pages and comes with a fold-out map and skill list... Even the survey card and contest information slip will be translated, so the package will be truly complete. I also have a special idea that I'm sure will be of interest to Cargodin.
Ahhh awesome news. Really looking forward to the manual  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on February 07, 2017, 01:32:53 pm
I've actually contemplated to play this game in Japanese since I've been getting better lately to the point where reading Japanese text is not too much of a hassle anymore (it sometimes still is, though), but seeing what a great job everyone involved in this project is doing really makes me want to play the finished English translation instead!

I had actually expected this to take many more months, but it's really awesome to hear that you're approaching the finishing line.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on February 07, 2017, 02:58:43 pm
I've actually contemplated to play this game in Japanese since I've been getting better lately to the point where reading Japanese text is not too much of a hassle anymore (it sometimes still is, though), but seeing what a great job everyone involved in this project is doing really makes me want to play the finished English translation instead!

I had actually expected this to take many more months, but it's really awesome to hear that you're approaching the finishing line.

Why not both? ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on February 07, 2017, 05:01:24 pm
I take it the gang is also going to be the Shonen Jump version as well?

IIRC, there was a dev room where the devs all had something to say. Are there any more additions/differences compared to the regular version?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2017, 08:49:06 pm
Pennywise, I haven't played the Shonen Jump version myself yet, but from what I've gathered online, the biggest difference is that one optional storyline building later in the game was removed and turned into the Shueisha Headquarters. (Shueisha is the company that publishes Shonen Jump.) I can't say for sure whether the characters there are developers for the game, employees of Shueisha, or both... Or neither. (Again, I haven't played it yet.)

But it makes me wonder how they would cover a somewhat important plot point that was addressed in the original building... Seems like it'd just be cut.

Blackiris, I would recommend waiting on the playthrough, yeah. It won't be too long. All of my free time is going into this project now, and then some. I believe it will be worth the wait. Then you can play the Japanese version after you've competed the English version. Having played it already in English will probably help you understand the Japanese lines even more.

If you play it in Japanese first, however, you'll miss the finer details, but still get the gist of it enough to the point where the English version isn't as surprising (and thus, not as enjoyable) as it might be otherwise.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: d557charger on February 07, 2017, 09:04:04 pm
FlashPV,DougRPG, ddstranslation, and Tom: I’ve been following this game’s translation ever since I picked it up used-in-box on a trip to South Korea in 2007. I’ve been checking on it at least once a month over the past decade, and I just made this account because I needed to thank you so much for your hard work on this project. Last year when the old message boards tracking it went away (as the layout on that site was updated) I braced myself that it just might not ever happen. So seeing this thread pop up late last year, a few days before my birthday, was a great gift :). Really enjoying the enthusiasm on this board, and look forward to playing someday!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2017, 11:25:16 pm
Well, I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed your early birthday present, and I'm especially grateful that you even went through the trouble of making an account just to say thanks! You know, I think, over the course of all the games I've worked on, people have only e-mailed me to thank me for my work on a project about four or five times... And I think you're the first who actually made an account to say thanks... So yeah, I really appreciate that! I'm sure the other guys do too. We'll make sure it's worth that decade long wait (without taking another decade).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 08, 2017, 02:34:11 am
From DDS :

Modified the Clock menu to show 12 hour time, and that was the last thing on my to-do list. Now it'll just be bug fixing.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4GzbxTWAAArG_B.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on February 08, 2017, 04:35:10 am
I am really very touched by all theses comments but everyone should knows that DDS, Doug and Tom have done some tremendous work. They've done much more than me and I'm almost a minor actor in this translation compared to them. However I'll be glad to work again with such a team if they're planning to begin another project.
I'm sure the final result will please everyone!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 08, 2017, 06:31:34 am
I am really very touched by all theses comments but everyone should knows that DDS, Doug and Tom have done some tremendous work. They've done much more than me and I'm almost a minor actor in this translation compared to them. However I'll be glad to work again with such a team if they're planning to begin another project.
I'm sure the final result will please everyone!  :woot!:

Couldn't have done it without you, FlashPV. The sheer amount of graphics in this game required both time and talent.  A less dedicated graphics editor might have bailed on the project part of the way through, leaving it only partially done. Whoever took up the reigns after that would have a different stylistic sense. Would they redo the old work? Would they keep it and then work on the rest of the graphics at a different level of quality? There's a lot that could have gone wrong. This project needed one, dedicated pixel artist in order to be done well... And I'm glad that you turned out to be that artist.

There's still quite a bit left to do... But I'd better seriously crack down on the script because once Doug completes the game, it could only be a matter of weeks before he's extracted all of the PLGS event related graphics and you've edited them all... Then I'll be the one stalling the project from entering proper beta testing...  :o I still have SO MUCH TO DO!

There's really only one bug in the game that occurs in the game at the moment for DDS to fix. And yes, this is usually the point where I say that it looks like it'd be really tough to fix, and then DDS updates his twitter the next morning to say that it's fixed... But in order to get to that bug, DDS is going to have to actually start playing through the game proper. So it may take a while for him to at least GET to the bug before he fixes it. It occurs three or four times throughout the game. Hopefully it's a one-fix-fits-all sort of thing.

There's also a special request that I have for DDS, one little thing that I hope he can add to his to-do list, but before we can get to that, I have to actually test and format a few things.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 08, 2017, 07:35:15 am
When I said FlashPV was the man when it comes to edit graphics,  it wasn't a joke   ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 09, 2017, 12:38:46 am
Hiei, that much is clear!

My current to do list:

1. Format more of the text that can be heard during festivals or optional scenes. (I have to see it running in the game to format it well.)

2. Add the new time tags to the script. (Easy, but still kinda time consuming.)

3. Redo acquired item lines so the "obtained item" text looks better. (The lines will have to be retested in context to make sure they don't break dialogue formatting when items are acquired during a conversation.)

4. Add color tags for red hearts and gray music notes, and reformat lines.

(I really wanted to add red hearts instead of white hearts in the text. The problem is, colors are set by tiles rather than by letters, so the wrong colors can "bleed out" into the text, or you can have a heart that's half white and half red, or something like that. Each heart has to have enough of a buffer (which is generally about four spaces) to make sure that this doesn't happen.

But the game really likes to add hearts to text, and sometimes it uses them liberally. The problem is, that's four spaces added for nearly every heart that appears. That screws up the formatting of the lines, so pretty much every line with a heart in it needs to be entirely reworked and retested in the game, often multiple times, until each window is passable.

It doesn't SOUND like much, but it's a ton of work, believe me. It's all superficial stuff, but it will make a difference in the end. It's worth the extra work.

There's only one game in the game that I'm not happy with.

The line of dialogue is spoken by a character who first says it directly after an item acquisition line, which requires new line tags to move the text down... But after that, the game uses it to start a line, so if you have new lines before it, it'll start at the bottom with a couple of blank lines above it, and then the rest of the lines will have screwed up formatting, and...

Uh oh, wait...

I thought of a solution now.

Add line breaks to every acquisition message to make them always take up the whole window, and then remove all new lines from the follow-ups! Then I don't have to use that reworded version! Why didn't I think of this before!?

The problem is... This means that even MORE formatting work will need to be done to account for the linebreaks that got cut out from every follow-up line in the game! Still, I'm glad that this solution will likely work, because that bit of dialogue sounded really robotic as I had edited it. (My original solution was to make sure that every sentence that this particular character said never needed a line break, but making her talk that way gave her a very curt, mechanical feel for that bit of speech. It contrasted with how she usually speaks.)

So, good news... All of the lines will be well done, no exceptions.

Of course, there's the bad news... It's gonna take a bit more time, and another playthrough, to identify and fix the multitude of lines that'll get screwed up in the process of fixing this one error. What's clear though, is that Doug and DDS will surely be done with their work by then, and I'll be the one stalling the project's release... Partly in spite of my hard work, and partly because of it...  :-[
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ddstranslation on February 09, 2017, 01:05:07 am
What's clear though, is that Doug and DDS will surely be done with their work by then, and I'll be the one stalling the project's release... Partly in spite of my hard work, and partly because of it...  :-[

That's alright, Tom. Now you can say that you were the first one done, and also the last one done. :)

Oh yeah, I forgot to say thank you to Lentfilms for PM'ing me and showing me this thread. I would probably had never even seen it without you.

And thanks to everyone posting here and elsewhere for your support, it really means a lot.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 09, 2017, 02:45:21 am
About the line-formatting, why not use something like that  : http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/378/ ?

I used it a few years ago for some projects and it was pretty nice to spare a lot of time.

With the right parameters, it can display the text exactly like the game and you wouldn't have to replay the game multiples times to see all the texts.

From DDS :

At Tom's request, updated a secret one-time past PLGS event so it will occur in the future.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on February 09, 2017, 06:46:39 am
Oh yeah, I forgot to say thank you to Lentfilms for PM'ing me and showing me this thread. I would probably had never even seen it without you.

:-[
Kind of embarrassing to be mentioned directly but you're welcome DDS!
I really thought you would be perfect for this project after watching you complete all those long-running SNES translations over the past few years but I wasn't sure if you would have the time or interest to work on Zero. So thank you, and to the rest of the team, for volunteering and for contributing to finally seeing this translation completed!

I don't have any technical know-how or translation skills but I'd like to help in any way I can so if you need a tester I'd be happy to help. Either way, I'll be cheering you guys on the side-lines!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 09, 2017, 09:59:59 am
I appreciate the link to the program, but the problem isn't so much getting the text to fit in the window. It's that the game sometimes ties lines together in unpredictable ways... By the way, the "solution" that I came up with to make all of the item acquisition text take up the same length isn't going to work, because with the updated way the game displays the items, the amount of linebreaks in those strings is variable... Therefore, unfortunately, I think that character will have to retain that one, slightly awkward line... It's some consolation that the character IS supposed to be a little "off" in that moment. (I won't say anything more than that.) Good luck trying to find which line I'm talking about. ;)

I'm so glad that DDStrans updated the secret PLGS event so English speakers will have the chance to see it... (It was an event that only happens during extremely short periods of time in early 1996, and then never happens again.) It is an event that most Japanese players never saw... And most likely, English speaking players will also never see. I still haven't decided how we'll reveal the secret event. Maybe I'll put it on the details page of a youtube video, or have DDStrans and DougRPG tweet about it before it happens! Only a dedicated few will see it!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on February 09, 2017, 10:54:28 am
Or you could include a hint in the manual.  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 09, 2017, 05:56:48 pm
That secret sounds so neat, you translators have all the fun!

Just don't spoil too much of it, make it very, very cryptic or in the form of a riddle.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 10, 2017, 03:36:20 pm
Or you could include a hint in the manual.  ;)

It's a good idea, but... Well, the event only happens for a very short period of time, and then it never happens again. The manual needs to be timeless, I think... People would feel bad if they found out about it in the manual, but realized they were too late.

That secret sounds so neat, you translators have all the fun!

Just don't spoil too much of it, make it very, very cryptic or in the form of a riddle.

The secret will be meaningless to nearly everyone playing this translation, so don't get your hopes up too much about it. It is rather hard to be cryptic about how to trigger it, because accessing the event requires the player to visit a very specific place at a very specific time during a very specific span of dates. It's possible, though not likely, that people playing the translation will stumble into this event and not even know that they saw anything special.

---

I finished adding colors to all of the in-script icons like music notes and hearts, and fixed the formatting to account for extra spaces that were needed to do this properly. I also finished changing the item acquisition messages to make proper article distinctions between the/a/an/(nothing) and to not always have the item name be displayed in caps.

I also finished incorporating all of the date/time/ordinal number tags into the script just now.

My current to-do list:

1. formatting festival/optional text (more work than it sounds)
2. reviewing battle feed window text in-game

After I finish #1, I'll do one more playthough to make sure none of my edits broke anything (and do #2 while I'm at it...), and then, provided all of the graphics are incorporated, testing can begin.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on February 11, 2017, 03:40:57 pm
IT'S COMING NEAR!!!

That's really amazing, guys, thanks a lot, sincerely, THANKS A LOT!!!

I'd offer myself as a tester, but my very limited time doesn't allow me to help at least with that  :-[

But don't hesitate about that: this contribution may seem small, but BELIEVE ME, for the hordes of people awaiting for more than a decade this title to be translated into English (since DeJap's effort or even before a few ones) is one of the most worthy and awaited news we have been looking someone bring forth into reality.  And all of you, Tom, DDS, FlashPV and DougRPG, your nicknames will be in a very special place in my heart, reserved for the people whom got those gems for the English-speaking people (well, I'm Costa Rican and English is not my native language, but I understand it very good) just for the sake of bring the majority of people the chance of knowing those gems.

MY ETERNAL RESPECT GOES FOR YOU ALL!!!  :woot!: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 12, 2017, 07:24:44 am
You're very welcome, Mike!

Hopefully, by the time everybody's done with their work, there won't be much left for the testers to do. So even if you can't help with testing, that's fine. This isn't a game to rush through, anyway. If you take your time and play through it slowly, you'll enjoy it more.

DougRPG is cranking out the graphics now, and FlashPV is blowing through them all as soon as they come in. The graphics in the fourth nation of the game have been completed, and the fifth nation in the game is nearly complete. Even some of the in battle effects have been uncovered. I think that there are only two more in-battle graphics that need to be triggered and extracted. I'd estimate that the game is about 80-85 percent complete in terms of its graphics. 95% complete in terms of its hacking, and maybe 95% complete in terms of its formatting.

At the moment, I'm taking a break from a button-mashing mini-game at a festival that I swear must have been programmed for Meijin Takahashi. I need a break! And I'm not even at the final round!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on February 12, 2017, 11:30:41 am
At the moment, I'm taking a break from a button-mashing mini-game at a festival that I swear must have been programmed for Meijin Takahashi. I need a break! And I'm not even at the final round!

About Takahashi's famous button-mashing skills... it's pretty amazing, but AGDQ has shocked me that there's people who can do the A Link to the Past walk-over-pits glitch in real-time (60 taps per second). I'd have thought that beyond human possibility (at least I assume they're playing with normal controllers? No turbo allowed there? ;D )
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 12, 2017, 12:55:03 pm
About Takahashi's famous button-mashing skills... it's pretty amazing, but AGDQ has shocked me that there's people who can do the A Link to the Past walk-over-pits glitch in real-time (60 taps per second). I'd have thought that beyond human possibility (at least I assume they're playing with normal controllers? No turbo allowed there? ;D )

The secret lies in how you hold the controller, you need to put it down on a table but 60 per second is impossible. Mr. Takahashi used this technique:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ4lmAFB7d4

Another good tip is the right kind of controller. Capcom Street Fighter 2 controller is perfect for this:
(https://s23.postimg.org/kh49u4gjr/61420.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kh49u4gjr/)

Tom, don't overwork yourself man, you might get a blister. Now we know why you will be the last to finish your part on the project.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on February 12, 2017, 02:34:10 pm
At the moment, I'm taking a break from a button-mashing mini-game at a festival that I swear must have been programmed for Meijin Takahashi. I need a break! And I'm not even at the final round!

Auto-fire?  ;) (except if you really want to beat it the legit way).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 13, 2017, 02:27:52 am
I made it to the final round legit, but in the final round, I had no choice but to swallow my pride and use auto-fire turbo! (It was for testing purposes only! I did it so the patch wouldn't be delayed because of personal pride and lackluster button mashing skills. Don't cheat when you play it for real, folks!)

DDStranslation fixed the item acquisition messages so that they'll always fill the window. This helps a lot for formatting, and it means that the one line that concerned me has no issues whatsoever. The side effect is that the game will need another playthrough to fix all of the lines that will have too many newline tags now.

Right now, I just need to finish formatting the optional events.

DougRPG has just moved into extracting the graphics from the sixth nation in the game. There's a handful of signs there, and then... Only four other graphics to translate in the whole game after that. (Two of them being in-battle graphics.)

Recently, he extracted one really HUGE graphic for FlashPV to edit. It's probably the most visually complicated image in the game, and I'm eager to see how it turns out! Once that image is done, I'm sure it'll be smooth sailing for FlashPV! We're all well past 90% complete now. We're in the final stretch!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on February 13, 2017, 06:20:57 am
I made it to the final round legit, but in the final round, I had no choice but to swallow my pride and use auto-fire turbo! (It was for testing purposes only! I did it so the patch wouldn't be delayed because of personal pride and lackluster button mashing skills. Don't cheat when you play it for real, folks!)

DDStranslation fixed the item acquisition messages so that they'll always fill the window. This helps a lot for formatting, and it means that the one line that concerned me has no issues whatsoever. The side effect is that the game will need another playthrough to fix all of the lines that will have too many newline tags now.

Right now, I just need to finish formatting the optional events.

DougRPG has just moved into extracting the graphics from the sixth nation in the game. There's a handful of signs there, and then... Only four other graphics to translate in the whole game after that. (Two of them being in-battle graphics.)

Recently, he extracted one really HUGE graphic for FlashPV to edit. It's probably the most visually complicated image in the game, and I'm eager to see how it turns out! Once that image is done, I'm sure it'll be smooth sailing for FlashPV! We're all well past 90% complete now. We're in the final stretch!
Mother god o.o to say I am excited would be a gross understatement. You and everyone else involved are total badasses there Tom.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 13, 2017, 07:56:35 am
I'm just as excited, and grateful to the other guys on the team. Your compliments and enthusiasm mean a lot as well!

Back to formatting festival text!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: midget35 on February 13, 2017, 07:59:20 am
Tom and team: Please add me to the list of people who are incredibly excited for this release, and grateful for your brilliant work. (What a team!). Are you saying the whole game is 90% complete?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 13, 2017, 10:32:39 am
Tom and team: Please add me to the list of people who are incredibly excited for this release, and grateful for your brilliant work. (What a team!). Are you saying the whole game is 90% complete?

I mean the formatting is about 95% complete, the translated graphics are over 90% complete, and the hacking is about 99% complete... When everything gets to 100%, testing can begin... And by testing, I mean typo hunting, pretty much. (My own mistakes largely remain invisible to me.)

As far as I can tell, there is only one glitch that warrants more hacking. If DDStrans can crush that one superficial glitch, his work will be entirely done, short of handling adjustments to the text that I can't integrate myself. He has to encounter the remaining glitch in-game before he can hack it. It happens (every time) during a certain bit of dialogue in the second nation of the game, so it shouldn't take him too long for him to encounter it... (Though that scene is optional, so he could technically miss it if he doesn't backtrack. The same glitch pops up later, too. I should have kept better records of exactly where and when it occurs.) From what I understand, he was waiting until his hacking work was largely done before starting an honest-to-goodness playthrough, as he didn't want to spoil the experience (as much as possible).

DougRPG has a list that explains how to trigger all of the optional graphics. It's easier said than done, though... The process he has to go through is tedious, I'm sure. (I can relate!) It's up to him if he wants to beat the game first before cracking down on the remaining graphics. I'm really eager to discuss the game with him when he's done. I'm glad to hear he's been having fun so far, from what he's told me.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on February 13, 2017, 06:09:48 pm
I have heard that that last 1% or so takes longer/is harder than the first 99%, is that true?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 13, 2017, 08:17:20 pm
There's truth to that. I think it's mainly that the easy issues are done right away. They don't linger until the last minute, so whatever issues are still plaguing a project by the end are relatively formidable tasks.

Also, you have fixes that cause other issues... So stuff you did earlier needs to be redone. Things like that. What you had originally checked off as completed gets brought back to top of the proverbial pile.

I'm dealing with one such issue right now... A bit of a snag regarding items as they appear in the battle feed. I have to do a bit of research to make sure that none of them will break the battle feed window.

If any of them include a line break, it's back to the drawing board, because the battle feed doesn't allow for line breaks. If none of them do, then all it needed was for me to change one word in the translation. (That's already been done.) But either way, it's an issue that I THOUGHT was done, but it turned out that it was not quite done.

It may be solved already, but I have to research enemy item drops to make sure that none of the longer item names (like the royal dragon longsword) are dropped by any enemies. Lot of cross-referencing to do... The GOOD news is that the festival formatting is done, as far as I can tell, and once this item check is complete, I can get back to playing the game. There are only three major PLGS events in the game that I'm not confident about, and maybe a small handful of minor lines that I haven't checked directly. It's possible that all of them work perfectly fine. I just haven't seen them for myself yet.

So yeah, there's truth to the last percent taking longer than the usual one percent.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 13, 2017, 09:14:24 pm
If any of them include a line break, it's back to the drawing board, because the battle feed doesn't allow for line breaks. If none of them do, then all it needed was for me to change one word in the translation. (That's already been done.) But either way, it's an issue that I THOUGHT was done, but it turned out that it was not quite done.

I am wondering what will happen if a line break happens during the gameplay? Will the game just crash or will the gamepak catch on fire?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2017, 12:55:38 am
A line break in the battle feed, at best, would cause a dialogue arrow to appear in the battle feed, and require an extra button press to display the second part of the item name.

It might also try to print text outside of the battle feed window.

It might cause weird spillover that lingers on the screen.

It might even cause the game to crash.

But I have good news. It'll never happen. I've gone through all of the enemy drops, and confirmed that none of the items that the enemies drop have names that include newline tags! So, that's been taken care of! Back to playing through the game!

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: deubeul on February 20, 2017, 06:36:49 am
I lurk every 2-3 month for progress on TMZ, and I find this fresh thread:  Best day of 2017 so far !!!

I first played Manjimaru and FKD BITD and couldn't get very far, but felt in love with the universe and the characters.

I played TM4 when it was released, but had to stop at the end of the first CD because the CD swap trick didn't work for the second disc on my PAL Saturn.

I played through Kabuki Den recently, thanks to the walkthrough, and it was AWESOME!

I dream of playing  Manjimaru before I die.

I just started Oriental Blue, I must be at 2/3 of the game,I'm really enjoying it (despite the lack of goofiness), thanks Tom for the awesome work and for allowing us to play a TM game in english.

The fact that you managed to create a team of talented people, who all made such progress in a short amount of time on TMZ, is already amazing!

And as a cherry on the cake, I saw this:


(In fact, my goal is to translate all of the Tengai Makyou PC Engine releases and put them into the PSP Collection for the ultimate Tengai Makyou experience!)


Holly S...!!!

I registered just to show my support  and to thank Tom and the team for their work and dedication.

There's no words to describe the effect that single sentence had on me.

I know it's not for tomorrow, but Tom, thanks for the little glimmer of hope you lighted.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 20, 2017, 06:54:04 pm
It's great to meet another dedicated fan of the series. Thanks for posting, deubeul! Hearing from others motivates me to work harder!

I'm very happy with the script so far, but I am working each day to improve the formatting. (It'll be much, much easier to read than Oriental Blue.)

A few days ago, FlashPV finished up the toughest image in the game (barring any insertion issues). There are only a small number of graphics left to translate.

DDStranslation wants to wait until all of the graphics are in before playing through the rest of the game, so I have to get to the third nation to encounter a certain glitch. (I thought it was in the second nation, but it turns out that it's in the third.) I suppose another playthrough won't hurt; more chances to clean up the script, I guess!

Progress on the manual/packaging editing has also been smooth. The manual looks great so far, and I really hope people out there print themselves up a copy.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on February 20, 2017, 08:24:52 pm
The manual looks great so far, and I really hope people out there print themselves up a copy.
Yes, I tought the same a few days ago.. Will print for sure!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on February 20, 2017, 09:24:54 pm
what kind of papper is recommended to look authentic and professional? also I don't know if I will get in to trouble going to a printer center;
and ask them to print some of this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 20, 2017, 09:57:58 pm
From the research I've done, thin paper with gloss is best for the manual. Thicker paper with gloss for the map/chart. Thick paper with no gloss for the survey card. Thin paper with no gloss for the CD promotional flyer and the survey questions. Not sure how the box would be done, though. You'd probably have to ask someone who's actually made a custom box.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Ishkabibble on February 21, 2017, 07:55:02 pm
Just joining in to say that I have been waiting for this game to get translated for years and the talk of doing the same for the PC Engine games is very, very encouraging.

I know it's too much to hope for the Saturn game to get the same treatment, but hopefully someday.

Outstanding work so far
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 22, 2017, 06:01:30 am
The work is nearly done, Ishkabibble. The wait for Zero will be over soon. Maybe the Saturn game is more popular with Americans due to its western setting, but I am sure that Zero will find a special place in people's hearts once they've played it.

I have given the script a very down-to-earth, easy to understand English translation that emphasizes clear, natural expressions and readability... So, no sans/chans, no Japanese terminology left in (aside from some food names). I wanted to make sure that everything would be perfectly understood by anyone, even people with no prior knowledge of Japanese culture or traditions.

I've also not inserted any of my own jokes or changed the content of the lines. Any jokes you see were jokes to begin with, though some were slightly altered due to the usual puns... Nothing to be concerned about. There were some superfluous changes made for formatting reasons or to make the phrase flow more naturally in English.

The only substantial change I made was that I've lyrics to the fire fairy's singing in one scene, because it would have sounded way too stupid to have her say something like "La la la... Water, water... La la la..." (As a result, the fire fairy is a slightly better singer in the English version than she was in Japanese.)

Glitch update: Oddly enough, that glitch I mentioned earlier seems to have been inadvertently fixed with my last round of formatting, because it just doesn't happen anymore. It's weird, because altering the lines in which the glitch appeared did nothing to fix it, when I tried that earlier. Oh well! If it works, it works!

Overall status: It's getting to the point now where we need to be putting together a team of beta testers. Hopefully that can start in March, if all goes well. Best case scenario, we could probably release it at some point in April, I guess. Anything goes. Overall, I'd say we're at about 98.9% complete, though! Right now, it's up to DougRPG to finish the game this week so he can hammer out the last bits for extraction in the main story and move on to the optional festival graphics. He'll be the first person (other than me) to have completed the game in English!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 22, 2017, 07:35:25 am
I have contacted few youtube celebrities like Erika Szabo, SuperDerek RPGs, Lusciousshowcase and few others and told them if they wanna be the first ones to review FEOEZ they should join the beta testers so that the reviews are already up when the game launches in April or May.

They are accustomed to it since they are doing similar things with brand new games. Promo copies and such...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 22, 2017, 08:49:23 am
dejan07, If you spread the word about the game, I just ask that you refer to it as either Tengai Makyou Zero or Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero when you introduce it to people. It should be abbreviated as TM Zero, Not FEOEZ. Zero should be spelled out rather than just abbreviated to Z, because if abbreviated, it will be indistinguishable from TM Ziria.

I want people to learn the difference between "Tengai Makyou" and "Far East of Eden," and refer to the series as the Tengai series (this is what it's called in Japan), because Far East of Eden is only the name of the "book" that inspired some of the games. It's not the title of the games. Far East of Eden is included before some (not all) entries in the series, but it's not the English name of the entire game series. I know this sounds nitpicky, and it is... But I think setting the record straight ahead of time is better than trying to explain things after the fact.

Regarding Youtubers, I was considering asking Happy Console Gamer if he wants to test it, because I know he's a big fan of the series and he already has all of the games. He even commented on the video I put on my channel, so I know he would be the most eager to play through it. The only question is, does he really want to play a test version, or does he want to wait until other people have tested it so that he knows he's playing the best version possible? After all, beta testing is not just about playing for fun... I'll send him a message when the time comes, but who knows if he'll even read it.

I checked out the Youtubers that you recommended. I do like the fact that LusciousShowcase complained about a text error in ActRaiser. That's the kind of people we need for testing, real sticklers who read each line of dialogue with an eagle eye, because my own mistakes are nearly invisible to me. I just skim right over them. (It's like my brain has an auto-correct.) On a side note, I also like DariaPlaysRPGs. Her channel's enjoyable, and she's done other fan translation reviews before.

But more than a large amount of testers who are playing for fun or for their channel, I would prefer a small amount of testers who are familiar with the game, and can focus on it exclusively to make sure the testing process proceeds quickly.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 22, 2017, 09:06:01 am
Erika Szabo expressed interest in the beta test project , she gave me her e-mail.   :thumbsup:

To make it clear the celebrity youtubers that i contacted are mainly for the promotion purposes and many of them probably do not have time to report back everything. The main goal is to expose the patch at the launch to many people as possible and those youtubers have tens of thousands of followers. The advantage for us and them would be the timing of the release of reviews and the launch of the patch.

The big companies are doing this all the time with their Promo copies and early access betas and so on...

Update:
Lusciousshowcase sent me a answer:

Id love to do something like that. However I wouldnt have a way to play that on my snes. im a schticler for og hardware and i wouldnt have a way to capture from just the conputer. but ill look into it mate. thanks for the suggestion

He is into repro carts but i am not sure if this can even be done since the game makes use of a special chip to decompress the graphics. Happy Console Gamer doesn't have time for this for sure, he is too busy.

Erika Szabo has reviewed Xak 3 and other fan translated games and she has done it well. In the end not everyone will respond to my proposal anyway so we will end up with 2 or 3 youtubers at best.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Ishkabibble on February 22, 2017, 11:06:17 am
The work is nearly done, Ishkabibble. The wait for Zero will be over soon. Maybe the Saturn game is more popular with Americans due to its western setting, but I am sure that Zero will find a special place in people's hearts once they've played it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, any of the Tengai Makyou games being translated is excellent news and I hope, eventually, they all get similar treatment.

It sounds like this game is having some great care put into it.  What you say about the translation sounds very promising.  It's the sort of dedication I admire in these sorts of projects.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on February 22, 2017, 01:10:54 pm
Regarding Youtubers, I was considering asking Happy Console Gamer if he wants to test it, because I know he's a big fan of the series and he already has all of the games. He even commented on the video I put on my channel, so I know he would be the most eager to play through it. The only question is, does he really want to play a test version, or does he want to wait until other people have tested it so that he knows he's playing the best version possible? After all, beta testing is not just about playing for fun... I'll send him a message when the time comes, but who knows if he'll even read it.

I actually first learned about the Tengai series because of HCG's video from 2009 that went over the whole franchise. His videos were also one of the first places that I heard about the Ys series as well. He makes good stuff, I'm a fan.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on February 22, 2017, 01:22:02 pm
I am a fan of him too but today he is pretty popular youtuber and hard to reach. I hope that Tom can reach him through his own channel somehow.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 22, 2017, 10:31:02 pm
Alright, I'll talk with Erika about a patch, but it won't be available until the graphics are incorporated! Hopefully it's just a matter of weeks!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 22, 2017, 11:15:07 pm
As far as HCG goes, his FB fanbase is also very huge, I think that being one of the first to play a mainline TM game in English would be a dream come true for him, I would consider posting about it on the public figure page or messaging him.....

Thing is, sooner or later he will find out about the fan translation, though, they always do find a way to things like this. Could be a cool launch day special with him at the helm, if it could happen. That makes me think of something, has there ever been a fan translated game, from eons ago, shown at one of the big gaming conventions, with the team behind the translation? I would expect there to be a lot of legal issues, and some others (money, time), but a TM Zero booth would be interesting to see.

As far as progress goes, not every single game needs pop-culture references and a very amusing script, sometimes video games can have their own pheromones that register beyond those decibels, if the video game is a classic from its original roots, than I wouldn't mind such a dedication, sometimes, to an author's original intent. 

Keep up the good work! It's so close that I can feel it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 23, 2017, 12:11:21 am
Merr Man, TM Zero isn't actually a mainline TM game. It's essentially a reboot for the series, but I do feel that HCG would appreciate it in any case. I sent him a message through his youtube channel and on twitter. He already knows about the translation and has commented on the videos I have posted before.

Regarding a booth, it won't happen for several reasons. First, the people who have contributed are located all over the world. Second, Konami currently owns the rights to Tengai Makyou, and they aren't the sort of company that would be open to fan projects. Lastly, there's not really a need for a both. The project speaks for itself. I say the internet is our "booth." If someone wants to contact us, they're free to do so!

As for the English script, it -is- amusing. I don't want to give you the impression that it's lifeless. It's just that I'm not trying to turn the script into Shakespeare, if you know what I mean. (The modern Dragon Quest games tend to try to make every line sound witty, crafty, and larger-than-life in English. I don't subscribe to that philosophy, so this translation isn't doing anything like that. I'm also not doing anything like Working Designs might - no disrespect to WD, though. I'm a big fan of their work.)

The other day, I asked DDStranslation what he thought about the game, and he said that it strikes a good balance between serious and humorous. I'm glad he said that, because it's exactly how I felt.

I just want to make it clear that I didn't take much in the way of liberties with the script. The fire fairy's singing, as I said before... Oh, and one other part that I forgot to mention. There was a really cringe-inducing joke, one of those lines (in Japanese) that was a joke that was so bad that the only punchline is that it's such a bad joke... I originally translated it directly, but it bothered me so much that I made it significantly less cringe-inducing on a second pass. (Don't worry. I still made it a little cringe-y.)

By the way, about Happy Console Gamer... On his twitter account, it appears he just posted about having received a Nintendo Switch ahead of time, so I'm guessing he's going to be going all-out with his new system and won't have so much time for an old Tengai game in March. Stiff competition there... Bad timing, I guess. It's a real shame that this translation wasn't finished years ago, when it could have reached far more people.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on February 23, 2017, 05:01:07 am
Perhaps it's for the best, considering the current climate isn't very friendly to fan works. A multi-million subscriber youtube channel advertising a romhack ahead of release could very well end up like the Pokemon Prism situation (a C&D would not only hinder this particular release, but even other Tengai Makyou ones, and that would be... a problem). The E3 booth idea is even worse - that was how Chrono Ressurrection got nuked by Square and even then their hands were forced because otherwise they'd be letting other people leverage their trademark. Konami no longer releases new games to "protect" the IP so they could resort to these means.

Not to jinx it, but that's how it is... Konami have precedent with shutting down fan games (only fan games for now but there's always a first time, remember Nintendo and Square?), even after approving them. Better to err on the side of caution and advertise this game only after it safely ended up in the hands of the players. After all, what use it is to spread the news to get as many people as possible to play it if that ends up restricting the release?

What would be really troublesome is some shit stirring big blogs taking this story and running with it, and then contacting Konami "for clarification", and then racking the clicks from yet a few more articles about the inevitable takedown. It's sad, but hating on translations and snitching on fan works is a thing nowadays.

Patience is a virtue. No reason to give Konami a warning some weeks in advance for them to act.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 23, 2017, 08:03:57 pm
The nice thing is that Tengai Makyou is too obscure to make such an evil endeavor worthwhile! Nobody would use such an obscure title for "clickbait." It wouldn't get any clicks!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on February 23, 2017, 08:57:57 pm
Don't underestimate things, this topic is already 16 pages for one.  Plus all the views.  There will be a decent amount of people stoked for this release at the least. 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on February 23, 2017, 10:41:19 pm
Sometimes I think Tom understimates the quantity of people awaiting for this game to be translated  :happy:

I've always thought there is SO MANY PEOPLE in perpetual hopes for someone getting this undertaking  ;) True hordes of them  :)

IS ALMOST GETTING OVER THE AWAIT, GUYS!!! Hopefully we could play it for this year's Easter (I have holidays through that week :D )
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: STARWIN on February 24, 2017, 07:51:01 am
You might want to catch the earlier glitch even if it just disappeared in a newer version, as it could pop up somewhere else.

About visibility, I agree with travel27.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 24, 2017, 10:28:50 am
You might want to catch the earlier glitch even if it just disappeared in a newer version, as it could pop up somewhere else.

It originally popped up three or four times in the game, so if it's still in there, it can't be missed. If I encounter it again, I'll let DDStranslation figure out what the problem was...

But like they say, "if ain't broke..."

By the way, I'm sure there are quite a few people who are awaiting this translation, but I think that in general, most people have no idea what this game is... If somebody wants to resort to clickbait, they want to pull big numbers... That means titles that EVERYBODY knows, things like Chrono Trigger, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, and the like...

No response from HCG over twitter or youtube. I'm not surprised. He is probably buried in messages, and I'm sure he's busy playing the Switch. (Turns out  a friend of his got the Switch, by the way... Not he himself.) Dejan07 sent me a message referring me to some other youtuber named Erika. She's clearly got a taste for niche games, but I didn't get a response from her.

I really don't think the game is all that popular. It deserves to be, but the industry has changed a lot. These old Japanese RPGs just don't draw people in anymore, for anything but the most nostalgic of gamers... But people have no nostalgia for games they know nothing about. I think that if this fan translation had been done ten years ago, a lot more people would have been into it, but most people who would have been interested in it have moved on to other things. Only the most dedicated are still around. This thread has a lot of posts for sure, but it's mostly the same people posting many times.

Back to testing the game!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: midget35 on February 24, 2017, 11:02:37 am
Tales of Phantasia, Wozz, Dual Orb 2, Arabian Nights, Treasure Hunter G, Herakles 4... all games I knew nothing about until their translations emerged. (Granted - I must have been living under a rock not to have heard of ToP!).

I strongly believe you guys create a piece of gaming history with these fan localisations. That is a bigger thing than 'popularity'. You leave your mark on the gaming tapestry forever. It is an achievement I honestly believe will outlive us all. Historians will cite your work, and the true value of these games and the communities who cherished and localised them will matter more than we can anticipate now.

I think you are doing an unbelievable job.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on February 24, 2017, 11:22:27 am
Sorry if this seems like a long post:

Tom,

So, I can only imagine a clickbait article like "The best RPG, or video game (to make it more clickbaity), you've never played! Better than Chrono Trigger!" or something like "Like Chrono Trigger if it didn't have time travel" (Siliconera readers would know what I'm talking about).

I apologize if I sounded like I was ragging on your translation in any way, I absolutely loved the Lunar series being translated by WD, but it wouldn't work for a game like FFVI, though I could imagine a few TM games getting the WD treatment, this one doesn't sound like it would fit in too well with that kind of translation.

Would actually like to see if HCG will update his "Best RPGs for every system" video in the future, with this game. It could be very interesting.

I'm not sure when the golden age of fan translation announcements were. I wasn't concentrating much on the scene, ten years ago, although I would've expected the translations of "Cave Story" and "La Mulana" to be huge, I don't know if that is what prompted there to be actual localized releases of the games for the mainstream consumer but I'm pretty sure of it. If I had to spot you a cup of Joe in sympathy, something like this 10 years ago would've probably prompted an official release of one or two of the games for western audiences, but that is purely hypothetical. It doesn't help that it is a rarity, nowadays to see a big franchise not have a mainline title localized or fan translated.

But thinking about it like this, though, even after all of this time has elapsed, you're still working on this project, and you've got people like me, even if we're the hardcore nerds, very interested in the results. The fact that you may put it out, even with little fanfare, shows that you have a passion beyond numbers and percentages. If people want to miss out on a potentially great experience, than it is their fault. I'll try to inform a friend of mine, who loves JRPGs, about this project, and maybe some posts to some FB groups would help. It's all I can do, really.

And I agree with everything midget35 just posted with. Before the remakes of games like ToP, or SO1, the only way to play them in English was through the translation community. I purchased the GBA version of ToP and loved it, but there are many who would prefer the Super Famicom version to it, which was translated by guys like you.



Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 24, 2017, 12:50:39 pm
If people "discover" the Tengai series through Zero's release, that'd be great... But mainly I wanted to translate this game because I'm a fan, and I wanted it done FOR the fans. Seeing the quality of the work that everybody's done DOES make me think... Man, it's a shame that this couldn't have been done earlier. But make no mistake, this game could not have been given an official translation without major cuts. I am happy that I could help to make a patch that keeps everything intact (even if it's too late to make a difference in keeping the series as a whole alive).

I wouldn't be surprised if HCG wants his channel to be focused on legit releases, not fan patches. I doubt he would update his best RPGs video to include this game. I think this game will remain an unknown gem... One of those games that's really good, but nobody knows about it. I do hope he plays the game eventually, when he gets around to it. I really do want to hear what he (and everyone else) thinks of it. Good or bad. That's one thing I look forward to the most after a release, reading reactions.

This weekend should be a productive one. I've got two big things on my testing "to do" list, and I hope to get one of them done in the next couple of days!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on February 25, 2017, 05:57:30 am
I can't wait to see how my work will look in-game!  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 25, 2017, 08:41:15 am
I can't wait to see how my work will look in-game!  ;)

FlashPV, I'll get you a copy sent over soon. (It'll give you something to do while you're waiting for DougRPG to send more work!) I just want to finish this batch of edits on my current playthrough. After I finish doing this, the game will really only need one more playthrough from me to test enemy/skill names and trigger one terribly sadistic flag that's going to be a real pain to check. Should be finished with the current edits in a matter of minutes, though... Once that's done, I'll send the script to DDStranslation and he can make a new patch for the both of us.

Unfortunately, the rom that I can send now isn't really current in terms of incorporated graphics because it's been a while since Doug sent an update. I think it's only done up to partway through the fourth nation in the game at the moment. If you're okay with a partial graphics insert for the rom, I can send it ahead of time. DougRPG said he'd crack down and finish it. Once he finishes extracting and inserting everything that's left, we'll fuse all of our work together!

Anyway, yeah... Hang on for just a short while longer!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on February 25, 2017, 10:41:13 am
I'm playing the last part of the game this weekend. I'll send the remaining graphics to Tom and FlashVP between today and tomorrow, so it's only a matter of days to finish the graphics.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 25, 2017, 01:35:35 pm
Just the festival graphics alone in that short amount of time would be a superhuman feat, Doug!

Not to mention beating the game on top of all that!

Good luck!

By the way, I'd really like to know how to trigger THIS bit of debug text...

(http://diarynote.jp/data/blogs/l/20161130/44086_201611300210288900_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on February 25, 2017, 03:32:30 pm
By the way, I'd really like to know how to trigger THIS bit of debug text...

(http://diarynote.jp/data/blogs/l/20161130/44086_201611300210288900_2.jpg)

According to that blog, there are at least four out of bounds NPCs embedded in walls in that particular castle (the dragon one), some leading to the other event test room. You'd need a walk through wall code for that but that needs someone talented in assembly. Moving debug NPC out of the way somewhere inaccessible without cheats is very frequent: Mother 3 has a Chapter 7 subquest test warp hidden behind one inaccessible bridge at a specific point in the story, Alundra has something similar inside a fountain that's just background decoration, and one piece of furniture in the very first room of Terranigma has a warp to the last boss concluding that first chapter.

Rooms apparently have different settings based on a flag, lots of "buggy" rooms I found were just because of a wrong flag configuration most likely.

That would be interesting, I agree. "Epilogue 1" and individual event testing sounds like it would help... If you have the text insertion script, you could repoint another piece of dialogue that's more accessible to use that instead, so that you can format its text properly at the very least.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on February 26, 2017, 12:06:12 am
Just finished the game:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5kLWwkXQAAg1DR.jpg)

Amazing game!!! I'm glad to be one of the first people to finish this game in english. I had a very nostalgic feeling playing this game. It was like playing a new 1996 game today! Very polished game and very polished translation by Tom. Thanks Tom...

Now I need to extract a few battle graphics, extract a graphic that Tom found and play the festivals.
After that I need to insert all recent graphics FlashVP sent me and send the team my first complete version.
After that I'll start the bug fixing, playing the game again looking for missing graphics and eventual bugs.

The most time consuming task is play the festivals, but I think I can do this in a few hours.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 26, 2017, 01:55:42 am
GHANMI: At this point, the debug menu won't "help" so much... The only thing I'd like is an easy way to manipulate certain "hidden" values in the game that plays a key role at a certain event... There are two possible outcomes for this event that are based on these two variables... One outcome of the variables is the one that every legit player will see. The other outcome will probably only be seen by cheaters (excluding masochists who specifically try to trigger it). I'm sure it would be easy for a hacker to simply manipulate the variables, but I'm not a hacker (and there doesn't appear to be a debug option for it (unless that's what F010 and F011 stands for)... Aside from accessing the festivals and secret event, and one mini-game (button mashing) everything I have done up now has been legit, with no cheats. I couldn't trigger the cursors for the debug windows, but I did a line-swap to line the options up in the general area. (The flag debug menus seems "kind" in that they each just use a half-window split... Some aren't that clean.)

DougRPG: Congratulations on beating the game! And you ARE the first person to have beaten the game in English without having beaten the Japanese version! I'm so glad you enjoyed it, and good luck on getting all of the festival graphics. It'll take several hours of tedious tinkering to get all of the remaining graphics, but you can do it! And I'm sure FlashPV will do all of them justice!

In the meantime, here's my to-do list:

1. Try to trigger the alternative event (based on two variables - this one's really time consuming.) I was planning to do this legit, but actually, I may just explain how to trigger this event to you, DougRPG, and have you hack the game to force in some variables. That'll reduce the hassle involved so I can focus on more important issues, like the tea houses.

2. Some tea house events (and some other minor text, like the buried treasures)... (There are a lot of variations here, and text that's very easy to miss.)

3. Hatchery text checks... (Not much to do here, really, anybody can do this...)

4. Provide translations for any graphics DougRPG extracts (so FlashPV can edit them)...

Most of this stuff could be left to the testers, but I want to do as much as I can on my own before it comes to that. (After all, I don't want to be swamped in reports come beta testing time.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on February 26, 2017, 11:16:28 am
beta testing

Since this is starting to come up, will this be an open beta?  Or are you all going to farm it out to select people?

My life is going to be a bit hectic for the rest of the year, but I'd certainly be interested in helping if you do the former.  I wouldn't be plowing through the game in a week, but I'm always happy to watch out for text/bug goofs while I play through (it's the least I can do).

(Sidenote: I do editing in real life, so I can pretty well guarantee I wouldn't be sending garbage your way)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on February 26, 2017, 11:50:57 am
It will not be an open beta. I think an open beta would make the incomplete version of the patch the most-played version. I want most people to play the completed version, not the beta. Beta testing is kind of "work" you know? It's not as fun when you have to stop and screenshot and take notes, and attach save states, and send e-mails... It takes you out of the game. So if you want to really enjoy the game as much as possible, it's best to wait for the completed patch.

If you want to work hard and contribute to making the project better (even if it's not as fun that way), and you're already familiar with the game, and so-on... Then it's a good idea to become a beta tester. What I look for in a beta tester is at least two out of these three things (but I can make exceptions).

-prior experience with closed beta testing
-a stickler for grammar
-already completed the game in Japanese

I'll accept magictrufflez' offer to be a beta tester.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on March 10, 2017, 10:11:15 pm
Expectations!

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ff/ff0cdb07bdd455d5dfb9b8fbc9c10b7bb3ec57fe210334eabb15963d0f7ef682.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 11, 2017, 02:08:38 am
How much progress we can make is mainly in DougRPG's hands, at the moment! He's only got three graphics left to extract! He said that he'd get them extracted "this week..." Which I suppose means this weekend.

FlashPV has also been working especially hard on the festival graphics, a massive wall of tiny signs that he has to restructure and reorganize... He's got all of the icons and lettering squared away, but he just needs to go over how they are structured in the graphics data. If anyone can do it, it's him!

I sent the translation for the three remaining graphics in advance, so once Doug extracts those and sends them over, FlashPV should know exactly what to do. Once the beta patch is ready, we'll do a cursory check to address any last-minute issues, and then we can start testing.

That said, I'm not sitting around waiting. I'm still going through the game... Not a day goes by that I don't work on the script!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on March 11, 2017, 11:38:48 am
Just want to say I've been following this project on Twitter and I'm impressed by the work being put into this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 11, 2017, 12:41:47 pm
Indeed, and the hype has been great around that work  :)

CAN'T WAIT!!!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: varikares on March 11, 2017, 12:50:51 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if HCG wants his channel to be focused on legit releases, not fan patches. I doubt he would update his best RPGs video to include this game. I think this game will remain an unknown gem...

iirc he's been extremely supportive of fan translations in the past and has even made videos about them

I think the last one he did was telling people to go download the lagrange point patch
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on March 11, 2017, 10:49:50 pm
iirc he's been extremely supportive of fan translations in the past and has even made videos about them

I think the last one he did was telling people to go download the lagrange point patch

I actually do remember that video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HjKjTcwDuY). In a way it isn't too surprising since he wants to talk about obscure or little-known retro games.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 18, 2017, 09:34:09 pm
Oh, I guess that's not the issue then. I've sent Happy Console Gamer several messages, direct to his channel, comments on his videos, as a reply to his comment on my video, and even through twitter. There's just no reliable way to get a hold of the guy. That, or he's just busy playing other games, and it's just not worth his time.

Update: Currently, I'm still waiting on DougRPG. I haven't heard anything from Doug in a long while now, even though there are only three graphics left to extract, and they are relatively easy to access. Not sure what the problem is, but since the current rom is not ready for beta testing without the graphics fully integrated, I've been having to do most of the beta testing myself.

Regardless of the lack of substantial progress, I've still been working on the game every day. The script is in really good shape. There's only a small number of lines that I haven't personally checked in-game, but I'm working on catching those. (Nothing that a beta tester couldn't do, but as I said, beta testing can't start yet...)

Just cross your fingers that Doug sends an e-mail this weekend, folks.  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on March 18, 2017, 10:48:40 pm
Oh, I guess that's not the issue then. I've sent Happy Console Gamer several messages, direct to his channel, comments on his videos, as a reply to his comment on my video, and even through twitter. There's just no reliable way to get a hold of the guy. That, or he's just busy playing other games, and it's just not worth his time.

I have to be honest, here, the only way I've ever gotten anyone's attention on social media, who doesn't know me from a hole in the wall, is through my connection with an organization. Have you sent him one today? Seems that Zelda was taking up a lot of his time.

Update: Currently, I'm still waiting on DougRPG. I haven't heard anything from Doug in a long while now, even though there are only three graphics left to extract, and they are relatively easy to access. Not sure what the problem is, but since the current rom is not ready for beta testing without the graphics fully integrated, I've been having to do most of the beta testing myself.

Regardless of the lack of substantial progress, I've still been working on the game every day. The script is in really good shape. There's only a small number of lines that I haven't personally checked in-game, but I'm working on catching those. (Nothing that a beta tester couldn't do, but as I said, beta testing can't start yet...)

Just cross your fingers that Doug sends an e-mail this weekend, folks.  :)

It feels so close, and yet so far.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 19, 2017, 12:14:53 am
I sent him a message after he beat Zelda. I sent him a message today, after your suggestion.

Happy Console Gamer has commented on my channel before. He's interested in the patch. I think my message just gets lost in a sea of messages. And even if he reads it, my channel has a generic icon (as if it's a new channel). I don't have any special icons or splash pages for my channel or twitter account. At first glance, it may seem that my messages are some kind of scam...

Imagine if you got a message from a twitter account with four followers and no unique logo, asking if you want to try a Tengai Makyou Zero beta patch... It might seem fake, you know? Like I was just fishing for his e-mail address for some nefarious purpose.

But even if he returns the message, there won't be a beta patch until I hear back from DougRPG, and I don't know when that will be.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on March 19, 2017, 12:18:45 am
This is one of those games that I always wanted to play decades ago!, we are so close to finally play this game in english and finally see the hype surrounding this game, I just hope is as good as the other snes gems like Chrono Trigger (best game ever!), Final Fantasy 3 (VI), Terranigma, Zelda: Link to the Past , Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, Seiken Densetsu (Secret of Mana) series and so on... seriously... want to know the hype on this game already... after decades ago!... argh...!!!

Hopefully Doug sends the email, you guys are doing God's work in translating this game. I hope everything goes out smoothly.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 19, 2017, 04:02:42 am
xZabuzax: I'm pleased to hear that you're so excited to play TM Zero. Hopefully, it will become one of your favorite games on the system.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on March 19, 2017, 01:02:08 pm
I sent him a message after he beat Zelda. I sent him a message today, after your suggestion.

Happy Console Gamer has commented on my channel before. He's interested in the patch. I think my message just gets lost in a sea of messages. And even if he reads it, my channel has a generic icon (as if it's a new channel). I don't have any special icons or splash pages for my channel or twitter account. At first glance, it may seem that my messages are some kind of scam...

Imagine if you got a message from a twitter account with four followers and no unique logo, asking if you want to try a Tengai Makyou Zero beta patch... It might seem fake, you know? Like I was just fishing for his e-mail address for some nefarious purpose.

But even if he returns the message, there won't be a beta patch until I hear back from DougRPG, and I don't know when that will be.

An oddly specific spam message, but I get it. I don't know if he feels comfortable beta testing anything, especially if he can't talk about it on his show, SomeCallmeJohnny has a series that deals with works in progress called "Johnny's Spotlight" but I don't think that he'll spotlight this. Even if he doesn't beta-test, at least there is a chance that he'll playthrough the completed version to give his own perspective on the game, and maybe some comments about the quality of the translation, we can only hope.....

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on March 19, 2017, 04:08:25 pm
Is everything alright with DougRPG? He didn't updated his Twitter since fifth of march.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 19, 2017, 05:51:59 pm
Don't fear!  He showed to be around recently  ;) Surely we'll get good news sooner than later  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2017, 06:47:35 am
DougRPG just sent a new copy of the graphics rom that won't make the beta come any sooner, but it did allow me to take one particular English screenshot. That let me reach a small milestone.

The English box is now complete (thanks to Cargodin's image work), and I've sent the image out to the beta testers, so they can look for any errors... I doubt they'll find any, since there's not all that much to check, but I sent it to them just in case.

It's a tiny milestone, but it's long overdue, so I'm happy about it anyway.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Panzer88 on March 21, 2017, 02:19:20 pm
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to the next step.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2017, 05:53:15 am
Update: I heard back from Happy Console Gamer. He said he's too busy to play the game, but good luck with the project anyway.

(I should have known.)

It's a shame that this translation had to happen way past its time. Better late than never, right?

Still, it was a little depressing.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on March 22, 2017, 11:21:13 am
Don't get too down about it. Plenty of people are going to be excited about this translation once it is released and I won't be surprised if HCG covers Zero once it is completed, similar to what he did with Ys V. I'd hardly call this translation "past its time", quality SNES RPGs are evergreen for a lot of fans.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on March 23, 2017, 12:49:35 am
Yeah, it is amazing that we are still getting quality snes rpgs in 2017! This is not a bad thing!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 23, 2017, 07:27:59 pm
The fact that it's amazing that we're still getting SNES RPGs in 2017 is part of the reason why it's depressing. This should have been done a long time ago, because even people who would have otherwise loved to play it are too busy with other stuff now, for many reasons. Many fans of the series will overlook it these days because it's just been too long.

Not saying the translation is a bad thing, or a waste of time.

Just saying that it's depressing that this game won't get the attention it deserves. But I guess that's to be expected. Some "long-lost" Atari title being dumped and released would just warrant nothing more than a "Huh, that's pretty cool... Not gonna play it, but that's neat." in this day and age as well.

I don't mind that people don't even know the name of the series in the west. That's no surprise. But when even a fan of the series shrugs it off, that's depressing to me.

No news to report.

Still waiting on the graphics.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: STARWIN on March 24, 2017, 08:39:27 am
Eh, future is longer than the past. If there won't be an official release, more people will eventually play this translation than the official version, given how much more used english is over japanese. With 2D graphics like this, there won't really be the problem of the game appearing unapproachable.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: barbe_folle on March 24, 2017, 12:17:47 pm
You would be surprised by the number of people eagerly waiting for this translation all over the world  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pickle on March 24, 2017, 02:20:08 pm
I don't mind that people don't even know the name of the series in the west. That's no surprise. But when even a fan of the series shrugs it off, that's depressing to me.

Dont get too down about. In my case i never heard of this series but im looking to get a cart now based on the work you and your team have shown.
So even though some may not have time for it, there are others like myself waiting to experience it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on March 24, 2017, 02:37:13 pm
It's a matter of time the Tengai Makyou series gets the popularity it deserves in the West. The people inevitably are getting more and more interested in Japanese milestones. An English release of Tengai Makyou today won't have the impact it should, for sure, but give it time. Things just aren't made like these anymore, and old stuff is fresh and new, especially when it's good. I'm sure a release like this this year will get more attention than it would have five-ten years ago.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 25, 2017, 02:44:06 am
To me, it's not about helping the Tengai series become popular in the west. The series is pretty much done, anyway. I wanted this game to be translated for the fans, and it depresses me that a fan of the series would say... "Cool, but I'm not interested in playing it." (Especially because I understand that perspective completely.) People get older, they have less time, they have kids, they have a whole bunch of new games to choose from... These old games are becoming increasingly less relevant as time passes, to the point where even old fans don't care as much.

That's what's most depressing.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on March 25, 2017, 07:57:50 am
There's not enough Tengai Makyou games to begin with, considering the high access barrier... and that was just one fan. Not one single game from the main series has been translated (well, released would be the more apt term), it was just Ao no Tengai which while a beast of a game, is still a spin-off without the involvement of the full crew. Zero would be the first such game.

There's no reason for you to feel bummed here just for talking to the wrong person, his disinterest is in no way representative of how the general retrogaming community feel. And rest assured that news about it will be everywhere as soon as it releases, its visibility isn't beholden to just one youtube personality (whatever that means). I for one can't wait to taste it in English finally after all those years.

And if that's not too much trouble, please consider releasing the tools for the custom compression when you're done.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 25, 2017, 09:49:11 am
Ghanmi: Actually, Tengai Makyou Zero is also considered a spin-off. It was a reboot for the series. Many people might think that "Zero" refers to the game being a prequel. That's not the case. It means that the developers "started from zero." They started from scratch.

So TM Zero will be the second Tengai series spin-off game to be fan-translated, not the first, and the only game with strong ties to the main series games (that is playable in English) would actually have to be the official release of "Kabuki Klash" on the Neo Geo. (Another spin-off game.)

All that aside, I don't understand why you'd say that I have no reason to be disappointed, and that it's my fault for talking to the "wrong person." I've already said why I was disappointed, and it was nothing to do with spreading the word on youtube, or people finding out about the translation.

I am disappointed because a fan of the series no longer really cares about the series enough to play it after all these years... I translated this for the fans, but as time passes, the interest fades. That's natural, and it's depressing.

Even with this project, the momentum has slowed to a crawl in the last month, which has caused my own interest to fade. I thought this game would be in beta testing by now, but March is nearly over. I pretty much finished up my work with it tonight and mailed over some final edits. I will leave the rest to the beta testers, if and when testing ever happens, because I'm going to move on to other things.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on March 25, 2017, 11:13:05 am
To me, it's not about helping the Tengai series become popular in the west. The series is pretty much done, anyway. I wanted this game to be translated for the fans, and it depresses me that a fan of the series would say... "Cool, but I'm not interested in playing it." (Especially because I understand that perspective completely.)
Yeah, I know that feeling.
Having the chance to play Tengai Makyou Zero, in English, might have been a High School students dream. However, when your teenage dream is realized decades later, when your an adult, it's bitter sweet. You can't possibly enjoy the game the same way, your just not that 15yr/old in 10th grade anymore.

For some, this patch is no longer for them. However, I'm sure a good number of modern 15yr/olds can enjoy the series with this patch. The game was made for them anyways.
 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on March 25, 2017, 11:51:09 am
All that aside, I don't understand why you'd say that I have no reason to be disappointed, and that it's my fault for talking to the "wrong person." I've already said why I was disappointed, and it was nothing to do with spreading the word on youtube, or people finding out about the translation.

I am disappointed because a fan of the series no longer really cares about the series enough to play it after all these years... I translated this for the fans, but as time passes, the interest fades. That's natural, and it's depressing.

I'm certainly not blaming you for how you feel disappointed about this incident. It's perfectly natural to feel let down in this situation.

As far as I'm concerned, this dismissal of years of thankless labor is really uncool and chances are this person wasn't that much of an invested fan in the first place if he didn't even bother trying it for half an hour or so as it's served to him on a platter of gold. He definitely could have handled this with more tact. But I'd rather not discuss this further... I'll just say it's unfortunate you had to be put in this situation, and how your motivation and perception of your work's worth was affected by this.

My point is that taking this particular youtuber or fan's disinterest as the norm and telling yourself that your work will go unappreciated by everyone on the internet is a huge leap of logic. It's a very anticipated release, even today. One recent SNES emulator release on the 3DS a few weeks ago had a major update solely about adding support to Tengai Makyou Zero in anticipation of the coming translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 25, 2017, 12:04:20 pm
I never said that it would "go unappreciated by everyone on the internet." I'm not sure where you got that idea.

I've already explained why I was disappointed.

Burnt Lasagna understands.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on March 25, 2017, 02:06:01 pm
After reading Burnt Lasagna's comment I think I understand where you are coming from now Tom. Funnily enough, I had a similar experience when Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright was finally released in the US. That title was my dream game back when I had just finished High School but when the game finally came out I had graduated from College at that point. I still liked the game but I kept thinking the whole time I played it that my experience would have been better if I had played the game back when I was still super passionate about the series.

I guess time moves on but, like Burnt said, I'm sure there will be a group of new fans that will discover Zero and have the experience we can't. Either way I am still excited for this translation all these years later and I look forward to playing it, so hang in there Tom :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 25, 2017, 02:09:41 pm
Surely I understand your feelings about so many people interested in the game but with not enough interest to play it.

At least this one WON'T be my case, I can assure you  :thumbsup:

I have been waiting this one since DeJap's times and now we are SO CLOSE to get it released!  :crazy:

And I think that I'm not alone in starting the game and to live this amazing story, and maybe in a future to share this passion with my children  :happy:

So don't feel bad, my friend.  You'll see this game will be enjoyed by so many people  :beer:

Thanks once again for all your great effort to you, Doug, DDS and FlashPV, indeed one of the most amazing teams on the ROM Translating history (at least for myself  ;) ).

Hoping to get it released before Easter  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 25, 2017, 11:29:56 pm
Mikeprado30: Originally, I would have thought that an Easter release would be possible, but with the lack of progress in the last month, we'll be lucky if even beta testing begins on Easter. The good news is that with all of the testing work I've already done (with quick hacks by DDS), the beta testing process should be much smoother than it would have been otherwise.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 26, 2017, 12:16:20 am
Well, no matter if it's released after Easter.  I'll play it till the end anyways, count with it.  And also I'll spread the word about this title among my friends' circle  :thumbsup:

And I'll be awaiting for the next TM games to be released also in English!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 26, 2017, 06:45:41 am
If the graphics take much longer to insert/extract, I might just have to end up giving the beta testers a version with incomplete graphics so they can at least look for typos.

I'd hate to do that, but really it might be better than the absolute lack of progress that's happening right now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: varikares on March 26, 2017, 10:07:37 am
I think you should wait for dougrpg to finish before beta testing

you'd just have to retest after the graphics are finished anyway
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on March 26, 2017, 10:25:44 pm
A real shame that progress become stagnant, after been almost done, however I been waiting to play this, since I saw and add in club nintendo Mexico.
So even If you guys need another year, i'm sure will try it!
in the mean time, since sd2snes will never add support for it anyway, I need to find a way to connect my pc to and old crt tv with s video.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: deubeul on March 27, 2017, 03:04:43 am
Maybe HCG is not that much intersted because it's a spin-off.

Or maybe he is just not interested in beta testing, he just wants to play the game without looking for typos, or that sort of stuff.

Or maybe he just lost passion, as it often happens when a passion becomes your job.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 27, 2017, 08:08:55 am
Varikares: I guess I won't let testing begin ahead of time. Just a shame that the project has to be stalled where it is, considering how much work has been put into it thus far.

Patuli: We don't need another year to finish it. It's 99.9% done. It could be ready for testing in one to three days, max. Extraction, editing, insertion... When will that happen? I don't know. It's not up to me.

I've worked on the project practically every day since the team was formed here on this message board.

Today, I will begin working on other projects. I wanted to be focused on this until the end, but there's not really all that much I can do at this point.

Here is my twitter account if you want to follow me. I changed my twitter channel name just now, since I'll work on some other retro game stuff.

https://twitter.com/RetroTranslator
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on March 27, 2017, 08:24:14 am
If I may ask, which graphics are not inserted yet, and how important they are?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 27, 2017, 09:03:55 am
That's a hard question to answer.

DougRPG has sent two graphics roms. The last one he sent had the end-game stuff, and the first one that he sent had graphics inserted up to the second nation in the game, but he said that he was going to redo some of his old work to make it conform to some new standard (since the first way that he was inserting before had some sort of issue). He said he was planning to "work backwards." So I have two graphics roms from him, some with certain graphics missing, and another with different graphics missing.

All of the graphics are important, but I suppose the most crucial graphics for the storyline would have to be located in the fourth nation in the game. Those aren't inserted in any of the versions he sent me, though he has pictures on his twitter account of those working in the game. He just never sent them.

The most important graphics to me (and to Cargodin, the packaging editor) would have to be some of the festival signs, and two signs in the third nation in the game, because I need to take English screenshots of those for the manual. (The English packaging and manual is complete, aside from four screenshots that currently show Japanese on the signs. I need those signs inserted so that I can take the last remaining pictures for the manual. It's the only thing stopping the manual from being fully ready for checking/release.)

Basically, once the graphics get hacked, the manual's done AND testing begins. It's just a matter of waiting until that happens. I've sent e-mails, but that's all I can do. Until there's progress with the graphics, my hands are tied, so I'm moving on to other projects.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on March 27, 2017, 11:30:17 am
Oh.  :( I should have known. Right till the very end, the one thing that caused the most problems for translation projects of this game has been the graphical compression. Well, at least the menus are translated now finally so that's a relief.

From what you described, even testing the game as it is right now isn't very wise considering the reinserted recompressed graphics might overwrite something in the game and cause problems. You can't do more than testing the text formatting at this rate :/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 27, 2017, 01:44:35 pm
What in Earth happened with DougRPG?  I'm really worried about him, cause also he has so many time without posting any update at Twitter  :-[

I hope he's well.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 27, 2017, 09:45:26 pm
Ghanmi: Originally, there were problems with the game due to the graphics, yes. (One shop's inventory got all screwed up.) But DDStranslation and DougRPG met up and established what caused it. I believe they settled on a solution, defined the parameters clearly so nothing would interfere with anything.

I think text typos and formatting are also important, so I considered starting testing for that alone, at least, and just let the testers play the game a second time when the graphics are done. (After all, proper testing deserves more than one playthrough.)

Mikeprado30: Personal life and work is definitely the reason. I'm sure he's busy. I just wish he could afford to spend even one hour in a week on this project, but it's not up to me. Most of my e-mails are going unanswered now, so whatever it is, it must be pretty serious, because at the start, he made brisk progress with extraction and insertion every day, sometimes multiple times a day.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Panzer88 on March 29, 2017, 04:53:58 pm
@Tom I'll always be thankful for the work you've all done on this, I've been following it on multiple message boards for years and eagerly await when I can play it and understand the text. I'm also looking forward to future tengai makyo games, not necessarily from you but eventually. I've started learning some Japanese myself. Thanks for the hard work you've done. There are so many unknown gems out there. I love the games from Pandora's Box like Arabian Nights that I hadn't heard of or played until I did in 2013 and absolutely loved it. It made me feel like it was 1995 again and was truly magical. I'm sure people also feel like this about books, it's an incredible experience and something I cherish when I'm fortunate enough to experience.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 30, 2017, 10:23:03 am
You're welcome, I guess! I just wish you could play it! (It feels kind of odd to say "you're welcome" when I haven't given anything yet.)

Earlier today, I got an e-mail from Doug that said he's working on it and he'll send progress later. We'll see if that's true. I really want something to be done this weekend. Even if it's just the festival graphics being integrated, so the manual can be completed.

The last three graphics should be easy to reach. I've sent detailed explanations, save files, save states, to no avail. I hope it gets done. At this point, I don't know what else to do but wait.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on March 30, 2017, 02:34:21 pm
Well, those are good news, Tom.  I trust he'll be reaching soon the rest of the work.  He did a great advancement and surely he'll finish his part  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Panzer88 on March 30, 2017, 04:33:06 pm
We are coming in the home stretch now. I can understand Tom's eagerness / anxiousness to get to the finish line as he has put so much work and time into this. I'm eager also but after waiting this long am content be patient just a little longer as these things take time and everyone is working on this for free. We really owe you all a large debt of gratitude. Godspeed!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Hiei- on March 31, 2017, 06:27:22 pm
Why not just ask DDS to extract/reinsert the remaining graphics?

He seems a pretty good romhacker with everything he has already done so I guess he should be capable to do it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on March 31, 2017, 09:15:05 pm
I asked DougRPG if he wanted DDStranslation to help extract/insert a while back, but he ignored my message and just said "I'll send something later." (Every once in a while, I get an e-mail from him saying that he's working on it and he'll send some progress later... Then there's a long stretch without any further word from him, until I get another e-mail that he's working on it and he'll send some progress later.)

Earlier, DDStranslation said that he wasn't good with working on graphics, and appreciated the fact that he could focus on the menu hacks without having to worry about the graphics hacking. It would be nice if, at least, DougRPG could explain the process to DDStranslation so the project wouldn't sit for another month untouched. If DDStranslation wants to hack the graphics to help the project, he can let me know... But it's a lot of work to do all of it by himself. There are TONS of files that I'd have to sort out of my e-mail inbox to send him too... Tons of revisions to sort through, too. It'd be extremely confusing.

If anything, maybe that's what's taking DougRPG so long. He said he wanted to redo the old work... I don't know how he's organized the files, but there are TONS of image files sent between him and FlashPV. Maybe it's hard keeping track of what's what.

The only recent progress with the project as a whole would have to be with the English packaging... The box is nearly complete. There's just one segment of the front cover that needs to be reworked. (It's a very tricky edit to do.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: praet on April 01, 2017, 05:47:58 pm
I have to applaud you, besides the outstanding progress you've made with this translation to also work on the box and manual's translation. It'll be appreciated for certain - doesn't happen everyday with SNES translation projects... then again this isn't like your everyday translation project!

When you think about the amount of views this topic's gotten in just the past 4 months, it does speak for itself, a lot of people including this humble viewer thank you for keeping us well updated.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on April 01, 2017, 09:04:47 pm
I have to applaud you, besides the outstanding progress you've made with this translation to also work on the box and manual's translation. It'll be appreciated for certain - doesn't happen everyday with SNES translation projects... then again this isn't like your everyday translation project!

When you think about the amount of views this topic's gotten in just the past 4 months, it does speak for itself, a lot of people including this humble viewer thank you for keeping us well updated.

Ya, Tom strikes me as a humble person.  But when you consider the views, it IS crazy.  This is a top 100 thread according to views (#70 exactly, as of now) and Top 20 in regards to responses (#12 and closing in one top 10) in the personal projects forums and many of the threads ahead of this one have been around a lot longer.  People are indeed watching as I said previously!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 02, 2017, 06:26:47 am
More than notoriety or views, I just want the game out so people can play it! And you know, it's pretty easy to be humble when the project isn't even out. After all, how can I really be proud of something that nobody's played? Anything could happen that could stall the project indefinitely...

It's easy to forget that this project was "almost ready" five years ago, and it's still "almost ready" now. I sent another e-mail out today asking about progress, but there's not much else I can do with the project. How proud should I be after another month passes, another year passes? There's nothing to take pride in here.

I've been jumping between a few other projects in the meantime. Even my own interest in this project will eventually fade, sooner or later. I just wish that there was more I could do now... Even if people are watching this thread, they might as well be watching paint dry; I'm afraid that there's been "zero" progress these days.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: FlashPV on April 02, 2017, 06:30:42 am
I hope nothing bad happened to Doug.
He didn't tweet anything since last month...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 02, 2017, 06:55:00 am
FlashPV, every week or two, I get a message from DougRPG saying that he's working on it, and that he'll send something in a bit... Then silence for another week, and then another e-mail saying the same thing as before... Tweets aside, he last e-mailed me on March 30th, so I'm pretty sure he's okay... It's just that after he beat the game, his quick progress slowed to a crawl. I'm guessing he lost interest in the game once he'd beaten it, since working on it wasn't as fresh and exciting as it was before. It's easy to get busy with other things when something loses your interest like that.

Of course, I don't know what's going on with him. Any number of very serious things could be happening with him. I can speculate all I want, but for whatever reason, he's dealing with stuff that's more important than the game right now, and he's got every right to do that (as frustrating as it might be to the rest of us). He's gotta deal with work and life, and so on. It's just sad that there are only three small graphics left to extract... You're waiting for them. The manual editor's waiting. Everybody's just waiting around with our hands tied.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on April 02, 2017, 01:22:24 pm
Why not work with the pre-extracted graphical packs used in the old versions of Snes9X in the meantime? These would have the graphics you're waiting for. You could edit them (they're in uncompressed SNES 2bpp/4bpp format), at least the tile data, and wait for DougRPG to reinsert them.

Just google a certain spanish alpha translation patch for TMZ. He included the graphical pack for the standard version (but didn't actually modify it). You can test it with Snes9X 1.43 and tell it the folder with the uncompressed files, to see how it appears in game were it re-inserted. And by the way, this pack overrides the actual SPC7110 data in your translated ROM, so everything would be back to how it appeared in Japanese (with potential garbage-looking text in menus but nothing big).

You could, in theory, distribute a batch patching tool for this pack and and the ROM in a worst case scenario (if you still have all those uncompressed files DougRPG sent you).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 02, 2017, 07:25:58 pm
I don't know enough about graphics hacking to fully comment on your suggestion, Ghanmi.

All I know is that the graphics are 99.9 percent extracted and edited right now.

Asking FlashPV to totally redo the editing based on graphics packs would be quite a request. I doubt he would very happy about that, as he's got his own projects to do.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on April 02, 2017, 08:38:28 pm
It's weird...

Doug was online recently in this board.

I hope his delay is because what you said early, Tom, that he's going to redo his graphic work for the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on April 02, 2017, 10:29:01 pm
Before 2010, the SPC7110 used for unpacking the special compression (used mostly for graphics tile data and other things, possibly tile map data) wasn't emulated yet in any emulator. This caused these graphics to appear completely dark. These graphics are about everything in the game except for the message fonts and graphics, and the initial test screens.

These compressed graphics were ripped directly from the console as they were loaded and uncompressed by the real hardware around 2003 by the DeJap team, and old emulators like Snes9X would use these uncompressed graphics from a folder with dozens of files (what they call a "graphical pack"), instead of trying to load and uncompress them from the actual ROM.

Fast-forward to 2010, an emulator developer finally figured out how the decompression works, and wrote a decompressor tool (for the emulators when they would open the TM0 ROM) and a compressor algorithm he shared with LostTemplar so that a translation project might be started. All current versions of SNES emulators besides ZSNES (but that's because it's almost dead) just open the TM0 ROM without the need for that "graphical pack" because they can uncompress that stuff on their own.

My point is:
1) if you're waiting for DougRPG to send you an uncompressed graphic for FlashPV to modify, it's certainly in that pack, and it's almost certainly in the same format as all uncompressed graphics you have been sharing back and forth.
Just as a proof-of-concept of how easy it is:

Spoiler:
(http://i.imgur.com/slnif9X.png)

2) if this is the final roadblock before this project is finished, and -god forbid- it caused it to go into development hell, you could get all of those uncompressed files you have been sending to DougRPG after working on them, and rename them to the appropriate file name in the pack, with no further modification involved. So it's not the end of the world! The Chinese TM0 translation released sometimes around 2012 actually did this. Of course, it's far too early to decide on that course of action, but it's a possibility that exists nevertheless.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Isao Kronos on April 02, 2017, 10:42:33 pm
And the point I'd like to make is it's Tom's project so let him do what he wants without trying to cajole him into producing a product he's unhappy with.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 02, 2017, 11:10:21 pm
All I know is, I don't know anything about hacking, DDStranslation said he'd prefer not to do the graphics hacking, redoing everything in graphics pack form would be a ton of work for FlashPV (and he's already complained about having to revise work after I asked him to redo certain graphics for standardization purposes)... I can't in good faith ask him to redo everything yet again.

If this project goes to development hell, it would be depressing, but it wouldn't be the first time a translation I completed went nowhere.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on April 03, 2017, 03:36:00 am
And the point I'd like to make is it's Tom's project so let him do what he wants without trying to cajole him into producing a product he's unhappy with.

Tom was dedicated enough to manage a project of this scope and magnitude, I doubt a few posts by some random forum goer would be enough to sway him from his better judgement or his years-old vision for the project.

I also stressed out earlier how this is not a recommendation for how the project should be, but that it's a possibility that exists in a worst-case scenario. After all, its existence at all is better than nothing, and for that to be known could be worthwhile if only just for testing purposes, considering it's stalled by there not being any way to test those graphics in the game (but this would be a way -admittedly, a not so ideal way- to do that). That said I get your cue, it's causing a thread derail and I'd very much wish not to have this overshadow the actual project discussion.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 03, 2017, 09:40:55 am
Given the time and effort that DougRPG has put into the project, he deserves the chance to finish it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. A month of zero progress may be frustrating, but I have to keep in mind that this project has been put on the back burner for five years already. It's just not that important to most ("sane") people.

I feel bad for having to string along the folks who've volunteered for beta testing. I feel like by the time the patch is delivered to them, half of the people on the list will not even be checking their inboxes.

As for derailing the project the discussion, Ghanmi, don't worry about it. Your comments are welcome. Rather than derailing the discussion, you are MAKING it... Because aside from your comments, there is simply nothing to discuss regarding this project... That is, until DougRPG does something.

Hope for an Easter miracle, folks... We're going to need it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2017, 11:46:21 am
DougRPG made progress this time. For real!

Hopefully the remaining graphics can be extracted and inserted this weekend.

We'll see!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on April 13, 2017, 01:27:54 pm
Good news!!
I guess everyone can get a bit burnt out at times... I was not worried he'd vanish, just that he was not good in health.

I mean, the pace of the work previously was insane. I wouldn't mind a more relaxed progress tempo ::)

Good luck finishing this legendary project, guys!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on April 13, 2017, 02:59:40 pm
Good news!!
I guess everyone can get a bit burnt out at times... I was not worried he'd vanish, just that he was not good in health.
That was my thought also, and surely that's what surely happened.

But thankfully he's well and up again!  :crazy: :woot!:

CAN'T WAIT!!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2017, 08:33:34 pm
DougRPG said that he should have the remaining graphics extracted by Friday (in Brazil). FlashPV will probably be able to do the edits that same day, and on the weekend, DDStranslation can put everything together for the beta patch. Once that's done, I will take the last remaining manual pictures and send them to Cargodin for insertion into the English manual. I will do a quick test to make sure that things are in order, and then (providing there are no problems) beta testing will finally begin next week...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: WildWolf21 on April 13, 2017, 09:08:51 pm
DougRPG said that he should have the remaining graphics extracted by Friday (in Brazil). FlashPV will probably be able to do the edits that same day, and on the weekend, DDStranslation can put everything together for the beta patch. Once that's done, I will take the last remaining manual pictures and send them to Cargodin for insertion into the English manual. I will do a quick test to make sure that things are in order, and then (providing there are no problems) beta testing will finally begin next week...

Look's like your Easter miracle finally came true. Can't wait to play the final product!!!

Also, can someone confirm if this game works 100% on SNES9X GX???
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2017, 11:05:53 pm
Let's wait until it happens to call it a miracle. Call me doubting Thomas, but I'll only believe it after I've loaded it up in an emulator!

I don't know about SNES9X GX, but DougRPG hacked a version of SNES9X to be able to run the xml file, and I believe he played through the game using that.

He sent me the hacked version that he made, but I couldn't get it to run on my computer. It popped up with some error message... But I didn't persist in getting it to run, because it wasn't necessary for me.

Some of the testers expressed concerns that they weren't able to run bsnes well, but this same suggestion worked for all of them so far, much to their surprise... Download the old "compatibility version" that I'm using. I don't have a souped up computer, and it works just fine for everyone else so far. Maybe it'll work for you.

I think this is the one.

https://github.com/Alcaro/bsnes-gc/blob/master/bsnes_v087-32bit.7z

Run snespurify on your rom, if necessary, and then load the game using the emulator. Hopefully that does the trick.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ObiKKa on April 14, 2017, 05:28:48 am
Yahoo! :crazy:

Has anyone taken a look at this interesting retrospective video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTXPLQJzhfY) on this specific game and that also explains some of the cool mechanics in it? Buckle in your seat, it's 27 minutes and a half long! I'd think that it'd be a good primer for you before playing this patched up game.
This more recent video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8XUZ3uU-dQ#t=2m5s) (11.5 mins long) discusses the history and time system in the game's story and is much better than the above video. It has dubbed captioning!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 14, 2017, 07:14:06 am
I have seen (and commented on) both of those videos, but I would recommend that other people not spoil it by watching them ahead of time. Let the game feel totally fresh and new! (Shouldn't be too long now, if all goes well.) Luke's video is thorough and was obviously done with love, but his take on the script is a bit off when he tries to summarize/translate what's being said in the intro.

The game will be able to speak for itself soon.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on April 14, 2017, 11:36:42 am
DougRPG said that he should have the remaining graphics extracted by Friday (in Brazil). FlashPV will probably be able to do the edits that same day, and on the weekend, DDStranslation can put everything together for the beta patch. Once that's done, I will take the last remaining manual pictures and send them to Cargodin for insertion into the English manual. I will do a quick test to make sure that things are in order, and then (providing there are no problems) beta testing will finally begin next week...

This is great news! I got bsnes up an running on my PC and am ready for testing whenever the beta patch is finished  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on April 14, 2017, 12:08:31 pm
My PC's body is READY also!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: LynxxLancer on April 16, 2017, 10:52:00 pm
To those who are involved in this project, thank you for all your hard work.

I am looking forward to playing this game in English. I am currently replaying the original japanese game and hopefully I can finish the game once the English patch is released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nolxQh76MJs&list=PLO34R-lFRKd6ggtY_gNJEAqADo2epuiA8

Thanks a lot guys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2017, 02:47:32 am
Sorry we couldn't make it before your current playthrough, LynxxLancer. I honestly thought it would be done by now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on April 17, 2017, 02:32:48 pm
Hi, I'm playing using Bsnes v086 because I use a debugger based on v086. But v087 has some changes related to the RTC, so I use this version too.
Tom, if I remember I only sent to you the .exe for this new Snes9x version, so you need to replace the .exe of your already installed 1.54.1 version. The Snes9x doesn't need the .Xml because the mapping is hardcoded inside the code. Snes9x is not so cool like Bsnes where you can do whatever you want.  :)
But I'll try to generate a complete package or an installer.
I'm using this Snes9x version to take pictures, because I can enable some filters.

I'll try to compile a Zsnes version compatible with this game, but Zsnes seems to be a pain to compile. Someone here knows how to compile Zsnes?

I could recompile other emulators too, if someone is interested. Please send me the emulator name and I'll see what I can do.

About the game, sorry for the delay, but I had very little time to work on this game the last month. I had a lot of stuff going on in my personal life, and I got sick for more than a week after that. But now everything is on track again and Tom already have the last Rom version with all graphics edited by FlashPV inserted. The graphics part is almost there.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on April 17, 2017, 03:09:53 pm
Hi, I'm playing using Bsnes v086 because I use a debugger based on v086. But v087 has some changes related to the RTC, so I use this version too.
Tom, if I remember I only sent to you the .exe for this new Snes9x version, so you need to replace the .exe of your already installed 1.54.1 version. The Snes9x doesn't need the .Xml because the mapping is hardcoded inside the code. Snes9x is not so cool like Bsnes where you can do whatever you want.  :)
But I'll try to generate a complete package or an installer.
I'm using this Snes9x version to take pictures, because I can enable some filters.

I'll try to compile a Zsnes version compatible with this game, but Zsnes seems to be a pain to compile. Someone here knows how to compile Zsnes?

I could recompile other emulators too, if someone is interested. Please send me the emulator name and I'll see what I can do.

About the game, sorry for the delay, but I had very little time to work on this game the last month. I had a lot of stuff going on in my personal life, and I got sick for more than a week after that. But now everything is on track again and Tom already have the last Rom version with all graphics edited by FlashPV inserted. The graphics part is almost there.

Happy to hear that you are doing well DougRPG!

I like the idea of releasing some custom versions of other emulators so people can play Zero on other platforms besides bsnes/Higan (although recompiling Zsnes seems a little extreme). Personally I usually like to play snes games on my hacked Wii using Snes9x GX, if there is a way to recompile that emulator to work with the Zero patch that would be really cool for me. I also prefer Snes9X on the PC to bsnes, since it just runs better, so if you could make you rebuild of that emulator available to download somewhere that would be cool as well.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on April 17, 2017, 04:21:11 pm
I'm really excited to check out the work you guys have done on this. I've played it several times in Japanese, but it's been at least a decade since my last go through.  I did want to verify whether the translation works on the version of BSNES that's included in Retroarch? That's the way I do all of my SNES emulation these days.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on April 17, 2017, 05:29:18 pm
I'll try to compile a Zsnes version compatible with this game, but Zsnes seems to be a pain to compile. Someone here knows how to compile Zsnes?
I wouldn't spend any great deal of time on this, unless you really wanted to. It's over 10 years at this point since ZSNES last updated, it's like someone still making a Nesticle-compatible NES patch. ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Panzer88 on April 17, 2017, 06:02:41 pm
Has anyone tried on sd2snes, super ever drive, or super power pak?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on April 17, 2017, 07:29:25 pm
Has anyone tried on sd2snes, super ever drive, or super power pak?
sd2snes doesn't have SPC7110 emulation, currently there's no flash cart that support's the game, so the only way will be via emulation.
Now that we are on that, I have a gamecube, ps2 and xbox360, so I wonder if some kind of special version of the emulators, would be need to support the game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2017, 08:15:55 pm
With the graphics rom that DougRPG sent, I was able to get the final screenshot we needed to complete the English manual. Once Cargodin inserts it and sends everything over, we'll send the completed packaging to the testers so they can start checking it out to find anything we've overlooked.

For the graphics hacking, yes, we're nearly done. Just a few things left to iron out now. If all goes well, beta testing could even start within a week.

I'm sorry that I can't say anything about any other emulators, though. I'll leave that up to DougRPG to deal with, once all of the graphics hacking is done!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on April 17, 2017, 09:28:03 pm
Quote
Now that we are on that, I have a gamecube, ps2 and xbox360, so I wonder if some kind of special version of the emulators, would be need to support the game?

Yes, you will need a special version on the emulators. Like discussed before in this thread, the problem is that most emulators only supports the mappings for the 3 official games that has the SPC7110 chip. So if you try to access other regions of the memory map, the emulators wont support it.
Bsnes is the only emulator that gives the user the power to manually control the mapping through a Xml (Bml in newer versions).

The change is only one line (or very few depending on the emulator) in the code, but it needs a recompilation.
After the release I'll give the instructions on how to update the mapping on emulators. The only problem is the recompilation, because the change is trivial.

Quote
I wouldn't spend any great deal of time on this, unless you really wanted to. It's over 10 years at this point since ZSNES last updated, it's like someone still making a Nesticle-compatible NES patch. ;D

Yes, but probably there is an expressive percentage of users still using Zsnes. I don't have this information, but depending on this percentage we can ignore Zsnes then. Someone has this information/guess?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on April 17, 2017, 10:36:37 pm
@DougRPG
Do you mean the addresses for where the compressed graphical data is stored, are hardcoded to the same values as in retail versions of TMZ/TMZ:Shounen Jump Ban/Momotarou Dentetsu Happy? Or did you by any chance use memory banks (probably the case if you expanded the ROM) that were not originally used by those 3 games?

The problem is that lots of emulator devs don't like to accommodate translation/hack devs "so that they make properly done projects". Look at how late MSU-1 support trickled down to emulators other than the recent higan versions, or emulation support for the expanded Star Ocean 96Mbit ROM.

ZSNES, much like Snes9X versions 1.41 and prior, uses separate packs of that SPC7110 data already pre-uncompressed. They're referred to online as "graphical packs" (although technically they also included other data like tilemaps and sound). But I don't think it's worth it to bother with these if recompressing that data directly to the ROM is possible, considering these particular emulators (not recent Snes9X though) are already obsolete.

If it's possible, would you mind also sharing the tools for handling the SPC7110 compression after the translation is out?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Isao Kronos on April 17, 2017, 11:10:53 pm
Maybe down the road DougRPG or someone else could get with whoever maintains SNES9X these days and at the very least get an update in the works for SNES9X-GIT?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on April 17, 2017, 11:31:44 pm
@DougRPG
Do you mean the addresses for where the compressed graphical data is stored, are hardcoded to the same values as in retail versions of TMZ/TMZ:Shounen Jump Ban/Momotarou Dentetsu Happy? Or did you by any chance use memory banks (probably the case if you expanded the ROM) that were not originally used by those 3 games?

The problem is that lots of emulator devs don't like to accommodate translation/hack devs "so that they make properly done projects". Look at how late MSU-1 support trickled down to emulators other than the recent higan versions, or emulation support for the expanded Star Ocean 96Mbit ROM.

ZSNES, much like Snes9X versions 1.41 and prior, uses separate packs of that SPC7110 data already pre-uncompressed. They're referred to online as "graphical packs" (although technically they also included other data like tilemaps and sound). But I don't think it's worth it to bother with these if recompressing that data directly to the ROM is possible, considering these particular emulators (not recent Snes9X though) are already obsolete.

If it's possible, would you mind also sharing the tools for handling the SPC7110 compression after the translation is out?

Hi, the mapping problem has nothing to do with SPC7110 stuff. The game was expanded, so now we are using an extra 1MB at 40-4f:0000-ffff. So the emulator needs to add this region in the game's mapping. This is trivial stuff in most emulators.

The Snes memory has 11,9MB for Rom, but 40-4f is the best choice in this case.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on April 18, 2017, 04:19:09 pm
Its so sad for me. So there is no solution for playing the translated and modified rom on Xbox360 or PS3 emulator? I mean ZSNES and SNES9X GX on Xbox360 and Retroarch SNES emulator on Ps3?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on April 18, 2017, 09:19:56 pm
sd2snes doesn't have SPC7110 emulation, currently there's no flash cart that support's the game, so the only way will be via emulation.
Now that we are on that, I have a gamecube, ps2 and xbox360, so I wonder if some kind of special version of the emulators, would be need to support the game?
I have talked to Ikari the person who codes the firmware for the SD2SNES and from what I understand implementing the SPC7110 wouldnt be hard at all for the SD2SNES because the SD2SNES's real time clock function is based on it. Thats what they told me anyway.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on April 19, 2017, 03:48:50 pm
You guys should all use BSNES+. It's like the qt core of BSNES before the emulator shot itself in the foot and it has all the current SNES emulation advancements and then some.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on April 19, 2017, 06:10:46 pm
You guys should all use BSNES+. It's like the qt core of BSNES before the emulator shot itself in the foot and it has all the current SNES emulation advancements and then some.

I tried Bsnes+ but I like the v086 debugger more. I can change directly the code and recompile very easily (linux and windows). You can do whatever you want changing directly the debugger's code.
Probably you can also do this with Bsnes+, but I've already gotten used to v086 and the code already have lots of changes.
I don't know what DDS uses, but I think it's Bsnes+.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on April 20, 2017, 01:30:32 am
DougRPG: so there is no chance to play this translated rom on my Xbox360 or Ps3? (SNES9x GX)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on April 20, 2017, 01:46:44 am
DougRPG: so there is no chance to play this translated rom on my Xbox360 or Ps3? (SNES9x GX)

Someone needs to release a new emulator version for Xbox/Ps3 compatible with the game.
Like I said the change is minimal, but the problem is to find someone to recompile these especific emulator versions for you.
I don't know if these emulator projects are still active today.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on April 20, 2017, 05:00:53 am
Someone needs to release a new emulator version for Xbox/Ps3 compatible with the game.
Like I said the change is minimal, but the problem is to find someone to recompile these especific emulator versions for you.
I don't know if these emulator projects are still active today.

Oh, i see. Retroarch emulator(for Ps3) is active yet and its working with core based on SNES9X. So i just needs to find someone who could modify the SNES9X source (https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x (https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x) ) and after compile a new Retroarch version with the updated SNES9X :)
@DougRPG: are you sure that the translated, modified rom wont run on SNES9X?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 20, 2017, 07:27:59 pm
Going through the current rom, I've established exactly how much graphics work remains before testing can begin.

1. Geisha lodge mini-game icon
2. Pub posters at the Big Tiger Town
3. Flower Circle Town jail lanterns
4. Flags in the Royal Dragon Town
5. Stone floor dragon symbol
6. Liquor bottles throughout the lands
7. Redo glitched graphics in the Fire Bear Shrine Town
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: LynxxLancer on April 25, 2017, 11:13:32 pm
I'm almost at the end of the game. I'm excited to play this soon. Can I used the save from the original rom to this translated rom? I'd like to play new game+ in English.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 27, 2017, 10:21:06 am
I'm almost at the end of the game. I'm excited to play this soon. Can I used the save from the original rom to this translated rom? I'd like to play new game+ in English.  :laugh:

Japanese save files carry over, yeah. You'll be able to use them for "new game +" (called "restart +") with the English version.

It might not happen as soon as you think, though. The project has hit another wall. There are a handful of minor graphics to do, as well as one really complicated graphic that I thought was done... But it turns out that it was only a mock-up. That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual.

The project is effectively dead in the water right now. Not canceled, of course, but I'm beginning to question if it will even be released this year, let alone soon.The beta testers are going over the manual, but that's about it in terms of progress. Nothing that will make the game come out sooner. I thought about at least beta testing the script with incomplete graphics, but even the beta testers are too busy with other stuff at the moment. In fact, only a couple of them are actually even submitting reports. It's just not a priority for most people, unfortunately. But that has become less and less surprising to me as time has gone on.

I think what really sets this project back the most is the apathy most people have for the game. And now it's almost infected me. Just cross your fingers that this project doesn't become vaporware.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Ishkabibble on April 27, 2017, 11:23:44 am
I think what really sets this project back the most is the apathy most people have for the game. And now it's almost infected me. Just cross your fingers that this project doesn't become vaporware.

Gotta get the game out then and prove them wrong.  The entire franchise is obscure outside of Japan due to not having any ports.  Somebody needs to get that first translation out there.

Also, I don't mind if it takes a while and also don't think that this project will be vaporware.  Well, technically it already is due to the long wait on byuu's to-do list before this recent activity dusted it off and got it going again.  But I do believe a finished English hack will happen and trust that DougRPG won't be gone for long.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Jeimuzu on April 27, 2017, 03:38:36 pm
That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual

I'm wondering if this is more trouble than it's worth.  Is it just for aesthetic purposes, or does it somehow help the player progress?  I have rudimentary hex editing skills, but moving just one tile would change hundreds of bytes when I was working on my hack.  It's hard for me to imagine how this can be done in a practical manor without an editor.  The choice is yours of course, but I'm not sure I would withhold a release if the divine dragon symbol isn't finished by the time everything else is.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on April 27, 2017, 05:23:25 pm
It might not happen as soon as you think, though. The project has hit another wall. There are a handful of minor graphics to do, as well as one really complicated graphic that I thought was done... But it turns out that it was only a mock-up. That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual.

As Jeimuzu said, is that graphic layout really necessary to enjoy the translation? I mean, will it affect the experience in finally playing this game in english?

Could the project be finished without it and add that missing graphic later this year (or next year) or something? A simple tutorial of how to bypass that missing graphic layout will do I suppose once we get there, I just don't know if all the trouble is worth it, this project is free afterall, is not like you're getting paid to release a professional product or anything.

This game had the worst luck in the english translation. We appreciate all the effort you guys are putting in releasing a professional finished product but is it worth the trouble to add that missing graphic?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 27, 2017, 07:55:21 pm
Gotta get the game out then and prove them wrong.

I can't put the game out in an incomplete state. Even if I did, it wouldn't prove anybody "wrong." I don't believe anybody is wrong, in this instance. If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time. They're not wrong. That's their decision to make. And thinking about it, if I did just put the game out, that would prove me to be part of the apathy that I find to be so disappointing. I would effectively be saying, "Who cares? I'll just release it. No big deal."

It's sad that I can't get the project moving... That it's just floundering because, hey, who cares if it takes a long time? I care... I hope each day that progress is made, but even that hope is fading. As I'm moving on to other things, TM Zero is fading from my mind too, and with it, maybe the hope of a release as well.

Jeimuzu and xZabuzax, the symbol on the floor is not just for aesthetic purposes. I believe there's a character who also mentions it in the dialogue, and I've written the dialogue as if that character is referring to the divine symbol, not the Chinese letter. Most of the remaining graphics are aesthetic changes that have nothing to do with the story, but the dragon's divine symbol is rather substantial... And it's also the hardest thing to hack. The small, superficial graphics could be done in one, devoted weekend, I'm sure... But that graphic... That's going to be messy.

I would absolutely not release a "missing graphics" version just to rush out a release. Whatever version gets released first is going to be the one that everybody plays. A post-release patch would be ignored by most people.

It's funny that you said "It's not like this is a professional release anyway..." Because I think professional developers would rush out the release because of deadlines (or especially in today's market, just try to post-release patch it). Because this is a free fan project, we have the luxury of making sure that everything is done right without having to rush it out and fix it later.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: charlequin on April 27, 2017, 11:20:08 pm
If you don't think enough people care about the game, nothing's going to build appreciation for it (both the quality of the underlying game and all the effort put into translating it) like putting it in people's hands. Updated patches are much more common than they used to be and this wouldn't be the first game to fix some lingering issues in a post-release version. If you're against making  a broad release with missing content of any kind, though, you're still more likely to find someone who can solve this last issue by taking the game to an early private beta than just going quiet on it. These last-minute roadblocks are definitely always frustrating, but it's still gonna be worth to push through it I'd think.

If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time.

:huh: I'm pretty sure that was the poster saying maybe it wasn't worth holding up the release for this one graphic because the game is too good to go unfinished over one small piece, not that the game isn't worth people's time to play? 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on April 27, 2017, 11:35:51 pm
-snip-
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 28, 2017, 12:18:35 am
GHANMI: Well, don't worry. The symbol's hacked in now. It's on the ground and running in the game.

DDStranslation saw the post about the mock-up and just went ahead and hacked it in. He said that the only reason he didn't hack it from the start is that he was concerned that it might conflict with DougRPG's hacks. It shouldn't be an issue.

So really, this is now only a matter of DougRPG working on extracting the graphics and sending them to FlashPV. In theory, it could be done over a weekend, but at the rate we're going, it's more likely to take at least a month or two. That said, I'm now confident that the game can be released in a reasonable amount of time, but again, it doesn't depend on me. DougRPG's been rather quiet lately, but maybe the fact that the dragon symbol is done will be good motivation to do at least some of the remaining extraction work.

If you don't think enough people care about the game, nothing's going to build appreciation for it (both the quality of the underlying game and all the effort put into translating it) like putting it in people's hands.

I think there's been a miscommunication here. I'm not talking about a lack of audience appreciation. That has no bearing on the project whatsoever. My point was that DougRPG, for whatever reason, has set it aside... And releasing what he's done will not motivate him to work on it. The suggestion to just release what's been done to "prove them wrong" (whoever "them" refers to) is not really relevant to the issue at hand. The issue at hand is that the graphics extraction / reinsertion isn't progressing... And no matter what I do, I can't help the project move forward.

However, after seeing this thread, DDStranslation did make another substantial jump forward in the hacking. So maybe in a way I did help, as my post here caused a bit more work to be done.

Now the waiting game begins again.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on April 28, 2017, 01:33:54 am
Oh nice, so the missing graphic issue is being worked on already, glad to know that hurdle won't be an issue anymore.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 28, 2017, 04:17:29 am
Update: I sent a beta to the testers telling them to ignore the graphics and just focus on finding text errors for the moment.

Then, right after that, I got an e-mail from DougRPG saying that he's going to have four days off! He's going to work on the rest of the issues during his break. Hopefully FlashPV is also available then. Let's hope that everything can be hammered out in that four day span of time.

Cross your fingers.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Ishkabibble on April 28, 2017, 09:41:03 am
I can't put the game out in an incomplete state. Even if I did, it wouldn't prove anybody "wrong." I don't believe anybody is wrong, in this instance. If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time. They're not wrong. That's their decision to make. And thinking about it, if I did just put the game out, that would prove me to be part of the apathy that I find to be so disappointing. I would effectively be saying, "Who cares? I'll just release it. No big deal."

I was not suggesting releasing it incomplete.  Rather sticking with it, regardless of how long it will take.  Well, at least until it is 100% hopeless, but we aren't there yet and hopefully never will be.

I agree, this should not be released incomplete.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: charlequin on April 28, 2017, 06:07:33 pm
I think there's been a miscommunication here. I'm not talking about a lack of audience appreciation.
Yeah, I may have misunderstood your concern there a bit. Regardless, glad stuff seems to be worked out, it's very exciting to see this title close to release and y'all have done great work in getting it there.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on April 29, 2017, 09:36:19 pm
DougRPG's time off is from the 28th to the 1st. He said that he's hoping to do all of the pending tasks during this break, but I haven't received anything yet. I am hoping for even one graphic to be extracted, like the geisha lodge mini game graphic, which is probably the most substantial graphic that remains.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 01, 2017, 03:02:08 pm
Hi, I'm playing using Bsnes v086 because I use a debugger based on v086. But v087 has some changes related to the RTC, so I use this version too. [...]
The Snes9x doesn't need the .Xml because the mapping is hardcoded inside the code. [...]
You might already know this but Byuu stopped supporting XML for memory mapping sometime after BSNES v94. The latest Higan uses his own custom format, .bml (claims it to be better/lighter).
If you want the patch to be playable on the latest Higan, keep that in mind.

EDIT: Actoully, it seems it was probably around BSNES v90 that he made the change to BML.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Spinner 8 on May 01, 2017, 03:17:42 pm
You might already know this but Byuu stopped supporting XML for memory mapping sometime after BSNES v94. The latest Higan uses his own custom format, .bml (claims it to be better/lighter).

classic byuu :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 02, 2017, 04:14:36 am
Yes, Burnt Lasagna. We know that the most up to date format for Higan is .bml. DougRPG said that he'll be able to provide both xml and bml files when the project is complete. (I currently just use xml, since I use bsnes.)

One of the testers is playing on DougRPG's modified version of SNES9X, but all of the others are playing on bsnes with an xml file. It's entirely untested on Higan. (I should contact byuu and see if he wants to test it himself, but I'm guessing he's busy. I'll try asking him once the graphics are complete... No clue when that will be. It could be done in a day... It could be a week, a month, a year... Not sure.)

Unfortunately, DougRPG's "four day break" seems to have passed without any updates... :(

Testing, however, is proceeding quite smoothly. One tester has almost beaten the game already! Unfortunately, one tester has also left the testing, saying that they are too busy to help out right now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: kain611 on May 06, 2017, 04:47:56 pm
I could help out with testing if need be. Just throw me a PM.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on May 06, 2017, 06:59:42 pm
I really think that, what Tom needs right now, is another hacker capable of decompress and compress the graphics of the SPC7110.
because, let's be honest here! it seems like a ton of problems and real life issues came out, just after completing the main game!
It seems to me that the problem, is a lost of interest now that the game was played, from start to finish!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 06, 2017, 08:56:47 pm
Patuli, maybe it is due to a loss of interest, but DougRPG told me via e-mail yesterday that he wants to do it. I'm not going to pull the rug out from under him, even he's sleeping on it. He has SO little left to do. It would be an absolute shame to pass his work off to someone else. I want him to get all of the credit for the great work he has done. I think passing it to another hacker at this point is too early. If beta testing is largely completed, and we have a version of the game that is ready in all areas but a handful of graphics, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it... We're not there yet.

I suppose the main problem is that the amount of edits (and revisions) is staggering and probably hard to keep track of. Even compiling and sending all of the edited graphics to another hacker would be a ton of work. What he needs to do is work closely and regularly with both FlashPV and me.

We have to not only ensure that the graphics are inserted properly, but also that the each graphic he's inserting is the most up-to-date edit. Keeping track of these things requires a lot of organization, and e-mail backtracking. (The more time that passes, the harder this is to do.) What he needs to do is schedule even a single hour, once a day (heck, even once a week) to work on Tengai Makyou Zero, and (perhaps even more importantly) to communicate more regularly with us so that we can all make sure the work is done properly (and doesn't need to be redone).

May 09, 2017, 03:31:46 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
DougRPG sent the geisha lodge mini-game icon today! Rejoice!

So here's the remaining list:

1. Pub posters at the Big Tiger Town
2. Flower Circle Town jail lanterns
3. Flags in the Royal Dragon Town
4. Liquor bottles throughout the lands
5. Redo glitched graphics in the Fire Bear Shrine Town
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: LynxxLancer on May 08, 2017, 10:37:50 pm
Just finished the game. I'm looking forward to playing the english version, even if it takes another month or two :)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO34R-lFRKd6ggtY_gNJEAqADo2epuiA8

Thanks for the work Tom and to others involved in this project.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on May 09, 2017, 10:41:48 am
I never lost the faith of seeing this game soon to be released by you, my friend  :thumbsup:

Thanks a lot for your HUGE effort!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 09, 2017, 06:14:31 pm
LynxxLancer, it will probably take more than a month or two, at the current rate. There's still a list of five things to do, and some of those have multiple graphics instances spread over a wide variety of areas in the game. Even if the exact same graphic appears in many areas, it has to be redone for each location it appears in.

I don't expect it to be done any time soon, but I hope DougRPG proves me wrong!

May 10, 2017, 02:52:30 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Kudos to DougRPG for sending two graphics at once!

It feels like the good old days at the start of the project.

Here's what remains:

1. Flags in the Royal Dragon Town
2. Liquor bottles throughout the lands
3. Redo glitched graphics in the Fire Bear Shrine Town
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on May 10, 2017, 06:55:46 am
U can feel the TRAIN OF HYPE!!!!!!  :crazy: :woot!:

Kudos from myself also!  :thumbsup: I knew he'd be back with a vengeance  :laugh: :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on May 10, 2017, 09:17:25 am
Great news!

I guess most people interested are not in a big hurry Tom. Hell, I've been waiting since 2004 (Dejap project). But nonetheless, I'm very excited to finally play this gem!

Good luck finishing it, TM0 team!!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 10, 2017, 09:32:35 am
DougRPG sent even more graphics now! Cheer him on, guys!

FlashPV is hard at work on the image editing now, I'm sure.

This latest batch of images is a big deal. It means that there's only one graphic that remains unextracted: a liquor bottle that pops up in various locations... However, since it's in various locations, it means that it has to be extracted many times over, so although it's one -type- of graphic, it's technically a lot of different graphics.

Still, this is big news.

Once that bottle is extracted from each location, and the edited version is inserted, Doug can work on redoing the glitched graphics, and the beta testers and I can identify if any graphics have been overlooked or need to be revised.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on May 10, 2017, 02:01:40 pm
Moar advancement!!!  :woot!:

THE HYPE IS FOR REAL!!!  :crazy: :beer:

I knew Doug would come with his work, sooner or later  :angel:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on May 10, 2017, 03:51:58 pm
Oh man I'm so hyped, at this rate we can finally play this game sooner than I expected!

All your hard work is appreciated guys, keep it up!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 10, 2017, 08:20:39 pm
Apparently, everything's extracted now! DougRPG came charging in at the end to finish it up!

FlashPV just needs to make some edits, and then Doug can insert them. After that, we'll send the rom to DDStranslation to incorporate the current edits and give it one more test.

Almost there!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on May 10, 2017, 10:32:24 pm
I'm very happy about all the AMAZING progress seen through today, bro.  :thumbsup:

Finally after all, this legendary walkthrough may come to a happy ending!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on May 10, 2017, 10:46:02 pm
Wow, this is amazing, the light at the end of the tunnel!  It feels like the last 800 meters of a marathon, not much left but the hardest part for sure, keep chugging along!!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 10, 2017, 11:33:11 pm
Here are the last steps:

1. FlashPV edits the last graphics and sends them to DougRPG.
2. DougRPG incorporates them.
3. DDStranslation combines his hacks with the graphics hacks.
4. The beta testers play through the complete version of the rom.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on May 11, 2017, 10:23:58 am
Here are the last steps:

1. FlashPV edits the last graphics and sends them to DougRPG.
2. DougRPG incorporates them.
3. DDStranslation combines his hacks with the graphics hacks.
4. The beta testers play through the complete version of the rom.
Long time lurker o.o good god to say I am excited for this translation to be finished would be a huge understatement. I've been waiting for a translations of this game to be completed ever since I saw the game back in the early to mid 2000s when I used to emulate everything. Tom, DougRPG and everyone else involved hats off to all of you. Thank you all for such great work.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 11, 2017, 09:10:06 pm
Thanks for posting, ginbunbun.

I hope you enjoy it when it comes out. Hopefully the editing / reinsertion / combination will be done by this weekend, though again, it's out of my hands at this point.

Once it's done, we'll be set!

I think once it is done, I'll work on creating a readme with comments from everybody that has worked on the project.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Man on May 12, 2017, 09:48:30 pm
It's been a while since I last posted on the thread, and there isn't much to add here, but I will say that the more I wait, the happier I'll be when the project is finally finished.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 13, 2017, 09:28:47 am
Update: All of the graphics are in now, but it's still not finalized.

At the moment, the dragon symbol on the ground needs to be rehacked, because it glitches (once in a blue moon). Doug's reworking how it gets displayed, but as of now we have (at the very least) a version of the rom with all of the graphics extracted, edited, and reinserted.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on May 13, 2017, 09:50:28 am
Almost there! It's the final lap!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on May 13, 2017, 01:48:48 pm
Update: All of the graphics are in now, but it's still not finalized.

At the moment, the dragon symbol on the ground needs to be rehacked, because it glitches (once in a blue moon). Doug's reworking how it gets displayed, but as of now we have (at the very least) a version of the rom with all of the graphics extracted, edited, and reinserted.

Excellent!, at this rate we will probably have the english patch released around (or before) August which is my birthday. We are getting there, excellent work like always guys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on May 13, 2017, 02:49:47 pm
Very good news, Tom!

Me and my console fan friends are hope we could play this translation on consoles too.(Ps3 or Xbox360) There must be a solution, because this great translation work deserve it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 14, 2017, 10:30:53 am
DougRPG did it! So, now both FlashPV and DougRPG are most likely done with their work! Thanks a lot to both of them!

DougRPG's changed the dragon symbol and DDS combined all of the changes.

I sent the finalized rom to the beta testers just now.

Here's to hoping the rest of the testing goes well. Now I can say that it won't take much longer now. Again, I can't estimate when it will be released.

It depends on the beta testers now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 14, 2017, 10:19:25 pm
Great news Tom! This thread has been such a rollercoaster ride, so much ups and downs.
Thanks to Far East of Eden Zero and The Legend of Xanadu I+II 2017 will be among the best years in retro gaming scene ever.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on May 14, 2017, 10:45:10 pm
For us, the people awaiting for this game to be translated since early 00's (when DeJap got the project and sadly couldn't end it) indeed it will be a great moment when this translation patch at last gets its final release.

Tom, DDS, Doug, FlashPV, Cargodin, and the beta testers, my gamer side can't ever thank you enough for your overwhelming effort through this time.  You're AMAZING!!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 14, 2017, 11:30:44 pm
All I ask in return is that people refer to the game as either "Tengai Makyou Zero" or "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero," and definitely not Far East of Eden Zero.

(Far East of Eden is not the title of the game series, it's just the name of the book that some of the games [not all] are "based on.")

I'll start putting together the readme today.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on May 15, 2017, 05:49:30 am
For us, the people awaiting for this game to be translated since early 00's (when DeJap got the project and sadly couldn't end it) indeed it will be a great moment when this translation patch at last gets its final release.

Tom, DDS, Doug, FlashPV, Cargodin, and the beta testers, my gamer side can't ever thank you enough for your overwhelming effort through this time.  You're AMAZING!!!

I crawled out of my cave after seeing this, and I wanted to say thank you for the kind remark! So far, only Tom and the beta testers have been given access to the manual, but I hope that when it's available to everyone, it gets people excited for the game itself.  The entire package was really a doozy, but Tom and the rest of the team and testers are insanely dedicated to their craft, and their input was able to help me shape it to be the best it could be.

Those guys all deserve a round of drinks for everything they've done for TMZ, seriously. : )
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 15, 2017, 06:51:37 am
We should release the box cover early, I think.

I wanted to reflect the stages of getting a game back when I was a kid.

First, seeing the game on the store shelves and wishing I could play it. Second, getting the game and reading the manual on the drive home from the store and imagining what it would be like to play it... And last, actually playing the game.

My plan was to release the box first, to emulate the feeling of seeing the game's box on the shelf but not being able to get it.

The day before the release, we'll release the manual and packaging. That way, people can look through the manual and imagine what it'll be like to play the game. (Emulating the feeling of reading the manual on the drive home from the store, but still not being able to play it.)

Then last of all, on the patch release date, everyone can play the game.

I feel like this would be, in a crude way, emulating the feel of getting a game back in those days.

Since we're nearly done, Cargodin, you can release the box packaging (just the outer box case, not the extras) at any time. I think it's about time people saw some of your fantastic work!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on May 15, 2017, 08:09:34 am
The day before the release, we'll release the manual and packaging. That way, people can look through the manual and imagine what it'll be like to play the game. (Emulating the feeling of reading the manual on the drive home from the store, but still not being able to play it.)

[ ... ]

Since we're nearly done, Cargodin, you can release the box packaging (just the outer box case, not the extras) at any time. I think it's about time people saw some of your fantastic work!

Sounds good to me, Cap'n.

Release the hounds!

JPEG: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpnje6qzso7xsey/box.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpnje6qzso7xsey/box.jpg?dl=0)
PNG: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkj3i1v1j0cko3z/box.png?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkj3i1v1j0cko3z/box.png?dl=0)

1.) While I'm including this in my note in the readme obviously, credits for several box assets goes to Reza on VGBoxart (http://vgboxart.com/resource/354/super-famicom-template/ (http://vgboxart.com/resource/354/super-famicom-template/)). Although I had to make the box itself from scratch, his template was still invaluable.
2.) Also, comparing 3 months working on this manual for me to a car ride home is like...the Desert Bus of torturous car rides for me. Can't wait to play the game for myself! :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 15, 2017, 08:15:30 am
Thanks for including both the low and high resolutions.

(I recommend the high resolution version!)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 15, 2017, 10:31:14 am
Wow, now i want this Teriyaki Maki Zero on my shelf!!!  Oops, i mean Tengai Makyou Zero. :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on May 15, 2017, 10:43:21 am
It's a huge relief this is finally getting released, for real this time. Congratulations on a job well done!
The packaging is awesome, might I add. You can feel the TM fan passion behind it.

If it's not too much trouble, you should really upload the tools used, at least for the graphical compression, so that the Shounen Jump version as well as Momotarou Dentetsu Happy are possible eventually.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on May 15, 2017, 11:12:40 am
That is one sexy ass box o.o MUST HAVE
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 15, 2017, 11:38:04 am
The template's there for a reason,guys! Now everyone can create their own English box and put it up on the shelf!

(Even if it is just a display case for now.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 15, 2017, 12:53:10 pm
"It's da bomb!"

Oh dear god...

Please don't let that be a reflection of the quality of the translation...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on May 15, 2017, 01:01:01 pm
All I ask in return is that people refer to the game as either "Tengai Makyou Zero" or "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero," and definitely not Far East of Eden Zero.

Haha ... Good luck with that one, you've got a huge hill to push that particular rock up!

We gave up on the idea of trying to get people to use the translated-Japanese name "Xanadu: Legend of the Wind" instead of common "Legend of Xanadu" name.

Anyway, congratulations on getting everything finished and hitting the final beta-test phase!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on May 15, 2017, 01:05:23 pm
"It's da bomb!"

Oh dear god...

Please don't let that be a reflection of the quality of the translation...
If find that quite charming in a very cheesy way. It also quite well reflects the Japanese すんげ、おもしろい! as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 15, 2017, 05:16:43 pm
I don't think even Working Designs would approve that one...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on May 15, 2017, 06:03:49 pm
No one needs to approve this because it's a totally valid translation. The Japanese phrase doesn't take itself very seriously (すんげ isn't something a normal Japanese would ever say) – the opposite, in fact. And it is clear that "da bomb" isn't meant to be taken seriously, either. I imagine this reflects the half-humorous tone in which the creators talk about the game quite well, considering the whole Dr. P.H. Chada thing (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tengai/tengai.htm). Personally, I find it quite delightful.

But rest assured, I doubt you will find phrases like this one in the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on May 15, 2017, 06:29:33 pm
I hope you guys don't have the wrong idea about this series. It's not remotely super serious.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on May 15, 2017, 07:12:28 pm
"It's da bomb!"

Oh dear god...

Please don't let that be a reflection of the quality of the translation...

First of all, it's actually a proper translation of the Japanese text. It was translated after the main game, whose main script was ready for a long time.

Second,
Tom isn't the Working Designs type going from his previous works, and is very mindful of the differences in tone when it comes to translating. After all, this is the same guy who gave you the subtly different interpreter dialogues in Ao no Tengai, and is a big fan of the series who has a big deal of respect to the original text, something refreshing these days.
Considering TM:Zero is more on the serious and epic side with some occasional comedy scenes with Akamaru / Fortune Cat Robo, compared to the rest of the series where it's usually the opposite, that awareness of context is sort of needed lest you end up with deliveries that are completely off (Fire Emblem Fates in particular comes to mind). Ouji Hiroi (or P.H. Chada, if you prefer) said in interviews they worked a lot on this balance of comedic timing and eventful playthroughs, at least in Manjimaru/Kabuki Fuuden and probably this one too.

In short, this translation couldn't have better translators and beta testers than the ones it has right now. It's in good hands.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 16, 2017, 12:41:18 am
Dr. Dimension, first let me say that I understand your concern completely. From your perspective, it could seem that I'm just making up the line and trying to spin it into something it's not, like I'm trying to make the script sound funky for a laugh. I can assure you that I'm not.

Let me explain the Japanese used: "sunge" is an extremely crude and casual form of sugoi (which in this case means "very much, a great deal, a lot.") "Omoshiroi" means: "interesting /  funny."

A barebones, lifeless translation might render this as: "It's very interesting!"

But because the word "sunge" is used instead of "sugoi" or "sugoku," the phrase is meant to appear in a cruder form of the vernacular. It's intended to be a silly way of saying "It's very interesting!" (In other words, the barebones translation comes off as way too prim and proper to reflect the original Japanese line.) Considering the fact that this game was published in Dec. of '95, I decided to use 90's era slang (that means the same thing, essentially) to give that "crude / silly" edge to the wording that's used in Japanese.

In other words, I didn't pull the line out of thin air. I translated it with absolute care.

If you are still upset about the phrase even after hearing my explanation, don't worry.

It doesn't actually appear in the game itself.  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: midget35 on May 16, 2017, 04:30:32 am
The care that is going into this translation... I am so proud of you guys. Keep up the ridiculously good work :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 16, 2017, 08:54:46 am
The care that is going into this translation... I am so proud of you guys. Keep up the ridiculously good work :)

Thanks for the kind words, midget35!

I hope you guys don't have the wrong idea about this series. It's not remotely super serious.

Actually, the series can get pretty heavy at times. Manjimaru in particular had scenes with choking and dismemberment... And this may come as a shock, but I think Zero is the darkest of them all. Although it's nowhere near as visually graphic as Manjimaru's infamous Kinu scene, it has some very seriously twisted and taboo content that I would have never expected to see on a Nintendo console. Don't let the colorful graphics fool you. Zero has some content that will most likely make people feel uncomfortable. (If Japan's CERO rating system had been introduced before this game came out, I doubt it would have been released in its current state.) If it had been given an official release back in the day, it would have been censored for sure.

That said, it also has its share of lighthearted moments. Although I didn't ADD any poop or fart jokes (Working Designs style), there were several poop jokes that were already in the Japanese script (and one fart joke). Rest assured, they were there from the start!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on May 16, 2017, 09:23:07 am
Thanks for the kind words, midget35!

Actually, the series can get pretty heavy at times. Manjimaru in particular had scenes with choking and dismemberment... And this may come as a shock, but I think Zero is the darkest of them all. Although it's nowhere near as visually graphic as Manjimaru's infamous Kinu scene, it has some very seriously twisted and taboo content that I would have never expected to see on a Nintendo console. Don't let the colorful graphics fool you. Zero has some content that will most likely make people feel uncomfortable. (If Japan's CERO rating system had been introduced before this game came out, I doubt it would have been released in its current state.) If it had been given an official release back in the day, it would have been censored for sure.

That said, it also has its share of lighthearted moments. Although I didn't ADD any poop or fart jokes (Working Designs style), there were several poop jokes that were already in the Japanese script (and one fart joke). Rest assured, they were there from the start!

That's really intriguing.
I know of the
-redacted spoiler tag 1-
but I don't know which parts you meant were in TMZ would be too much even for Nintendo of Japan at the time (which did some censorship of their own notably for ports from Japanese computers, not to be confused with NoA, but that was mainly about sexual themes either explicit or in the plot or particularly twisted violence).
-redacted spoiler tag 2- seem like standard RPG fare at the time. Unless I'm missing something? (edit: yes)

Oh and yeah, Manjimaru was dark for more reasons than just that "execution" scene
-redacted spoiler tag 3, just in case-
And boy didn't it shy away from blood and body horror, or showing the suffering of the various villages ravaged by the Root Clan. It's one of the perks of developing for the PC Engine considering NEC were the most desperate for third party support at the time and relaxed their censorship accordingly.

Fuun Kabuki Den is the more comedic one in the series but it's not without some serious and at times heavy themes. The Apocalypse is ridiculous but past halfways through the game the mood suddenly becomes overwhelmingly heavy, but that might have to do with its rushed nature considering the other games had a much better balance.

EDIT: Removed three sections (that were originally behind spoiler tags, but are now completely purged just to be safe) listing objectionable stuff happening in-game that could cause CERO to request this game to be censored further. It wasn't exhaustive anyways so anyone interested is not missing much.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 16, 2017, 10:23:35 am
Ghanmi, if you could, please cut the spoilers from your post, even though they are marked. I think they are too tempting for people to read, and I don't want people to be spoiled.

And yes, you are missing a few things.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on May 16, 2017, 11:00:05 am
All I ask in return is that people refer to the game as either "Tengai Makyou Zero" or "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero," and definitely not Far East of Eden Zero.

(Far East of Eden is not the title of the game series, it's just the name of the book that some of the games [not all] are "based on.")

Even "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero" isn't correct, either, as far as officialness is considered. The one and only title for the game is "Tengai Makyou Zero"; the "Far East of Eden" part is just ornamental text, no matter if it's indeed meaningful. Ornamental phrasing for logos is something Japanese do quite often yet it's a thing Westerners fail to grasp after all these years for some reason.

(Congrats for finishing the project. Are the original version of the hi-res cover scans available too?)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on May 16, 2017, 11:17:46 am
And done.
I realized spoiler tags on this forum are visible just hovering the mouse pointer over them, so yes, they'd have to go.

And yes, you are missing a few things.
That's nice to hear... Frankly surprising how a high profile release would manage to sneak in stuff pushing the envelope in terms of what's acceptable by NCL's guidelines. Maybe that's one reason besides emulation issues for this game not being re-released in Japan (afaik all other Tengai Makyou rereleases bar the fighters had some cut or rewritten text, and that alone would break the CRC check - and I suspect if it's a more involved hacking work, Hudson/Nintendo wouldn't want anything to do with it)
I can't wait to play it and see for myself without half the message going over my head. (I'm not polishing my nihongo-fu as well as I should be.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 16, 2017, 05:22:11 pm
Even "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero" isn't correct, either, as far as officialness is considered. The one and only title for the game is "Tengai Makyou Zero"; the "Far East of Eden" part is just ornamental text, no matter if it's indeed meaningful. Ornamental phrasing for logos is something Japanese do quite often yet it's a thing Westerners fail to grasp after all these years for some reason.

Yes, that's true.

The title of the game is Tengai Makyou Zero. But it doesn't bother me if people include it with the title, so long as they don't drop the Tengai Makyou part. That's what really disappoints me. It's like if people called the first Persona game "Revelations" or "Megami Ibunroku" and dropped the actual Persona part.

Edit: Actually, a more valid Far East of Eden comparison would be if someone referred to the first Persona game as "Be Your True Mind" (because that appeared on the Japanese cover).

Quote
(Congrats for finishing the project. Are the original version of the hi-res cover scans available too?)

They're probably out there somewhere. Someone sent them to me directly, as I don't have a scanner.

By the way, thanks for cutting the spoilers, Ghanmi.

And I hope you enjoy finding the surprising bits that you missed when you play the game in English.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on May 16, 2017, 11:34:10 pm
The change is only one line (or very few depending on the emulator) in the code, but it needs a recompilation.
After the release I'll give the instructions on how to update the mapping on emulators. The only problem is the recompilation, because the change is trivial.

May i know what this change is and where to insert it? I would gladly recompile and post a build for Snes 9x GX Wii :beer:
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx (https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx)

DougRPG, Tom & company, thanks for your hard work on this translation. I am very eager to play it since i am a lucky owner of an original copy for this Super Famicom game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on May 17, 2017, 11:47:43 am
May i know what this change is and where to insert it? I would gladly recompile and post a build for Snes 9x GX Wii :beer:
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx (https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx)

DougRPG, Tom & company, thanks for your hard work on this translation. I am very eager to play it since i am a lucky owner of an original copy for this Super Famicom game.

Very nice. You gave me some hope i can enjoy this great translation on consoles :) After release of the translation can you compile the Snes9X Xbox360 or Ps3 version too?
My opinion is that play this great game on PC its like take a shower in sockets :) Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pennywise on May 17, 2017, 12:31:49 pm
I didn't think I still had the scans, but it seems I uploaded them several years ago.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/EDEN.rar
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 17, 2017, 02:13:00 pm
The title of the game is Tengai Makyou Zero. But it doesn't bother me if people include it with the title, so long as they don't drop the Tengai Makyou part.

If the game was published in the West i doubt they would include Tengai Makyou in the title.
They would probably change it to Super Far East of Eden - The Beginning or Kabuki Quest or even better just the 72 MBits Super Quest.


May 17, 2017, 02:28:35 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.

I don't own SNES, cartridge not even an old TV. Can you borrow me everything for a month?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: darthhelcius on May 17, 2017, 02:13:22 pm
I would love to play this game in a console, too! I have the Super Famicom original cartridge and it's one of my all time favorite RPGs! I've been waiting for this translation for years, and it would be amazing be able to play this gem in a real console!! :D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on May 17, 2017, 02:50:00 pm
I have a question, I know this has been asked before but I don't feel like going through the whole thread to find the answer.

When the english patch is released, on which emulator or version of the emulator will the english patch work? Will it work on a modified version of: Snes9X, Bsnes, Higan...?

If possible, I would love to play this on Snes9X because that's the emulator I'm using, I've tried the other emulators but I don't like them because they are missing some features that Snes9X have like the ability to configure the whole emulator to your liking via hotkeys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on May 17, 2017, 03:46:45 pm
I do agree if it had gotten a western release in 1996, they would've changed the title to something with English words in it, or at least the Japanese words left in would be words generally understood by English speakers. :) (whereas now publishers are more open to localizing games with Japanese titles left intact. Shin Megami Tensei III in 2003 was probably one of the earliest to do that.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 17, 2017, 04:55:10 pm
If you don't want people to distribute the ROM file as "Far East of Eden Zero" or some such, please give an official translation for the name Tengai Makyou.

It's kind of an important part of the translation! :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on May 17, 2017, 05:41:01 pm
If you don't want people to distribute the ROM file as "Far East of Eden Zero" or some such, please give an official translation for the name Tengai Makyou.

It's kind of an important part of the translation! :)
His point was indeed that he wants "Tengai Makyou" to stay like that. I'm sure he will provide a translation somewhere especially if they're doing the whole manual and whatnot, but it'd be quite silly trying to impose another title for a series like this from now on. The translation into English would sound quite worse (or "too long"), besides.

I didn't think I still had the scans, but it seems I uploaded them several years ago.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/EDEN.rar

Nice, thanks. Got the box scans somewhere as well, perhaps?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 17, 2017, 06:00:55 pm
:banghead:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on May 17, 2017, 06:03:40 pm
Call it Ten Guy Mikey-o. Change the main character's name to "Mikey". Don't ask why they call him "Ten Guy" though! :D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 17, 2017, 06:56:57 pm
Yes, as Recapnation said, my hope is that people will refer to the title using Japanese.

Kingmike said that the first game to leave the title in Japanese like this in the west was Shin Megami Tensei III on the PS2, but I think Suikoden did it even earlier on the PS1. There may have been others, too, but I'm not sure. Suikoden is the earliest that I can remember off-hand. Well, you could say that the Japanese title is actually Gensou Suikoden, but the logo is exactly the same for both the English and Japanese releases, at least for the first game.

Naturally, the manual doesn't translate the name (as the Japanese manual has no section explaining what its own name means). Do the English Shin Megami Tensei game manuals even do this? Or Suikoden? In any case, since you requested it, perhaps I'll add a small explanation in the readme, along with a note that asks them to refer to the series by its Japanese name.

Oh, Pennywise, it was you who sent the scans! Sorry about that. Thanks for reminding me. I thought it was KingMike for some reason. I guess my memory had faded. I'll make sure you're credited!

As for how people might be distributing the rom, that is beyond my control, but I'll ask DDS to make sure that the name of the patch itself refers to the Japanese name of the game, not the ornamental reference to P. H. Chada's English book.

xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.

By the way, I liked dejan07's speculation about the English name, had it been given an official translation. I imagine that it would have been called Kabuki Kuest (in the Kabuki Klash tradition).

Darthhelcius and chicco30, I look forward to the day when people can play the English version of Tengai Makyou Zero on real hardware, yeah.

Oh, and filler, I would prefer to call it "Ten Guy Mock, Yo!" (Ten rappers diss each other in an epic rap battle!)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on May 17, 2017, 07:20:21 pm
I think Kabuki Danjuurou kind of starring Shin Den had a lot to do with the "Kabuki Klash" naming, which is not the case here?

Taito's Samurai Nihon-Ichi predates Suikoden by a decade, if you're counting partial transliterations:

http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=932&image=1

(Though obviously that was due to the US publisher not having enough money to make "proper" changes.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: BlackMageJawa on May 17, 2017, 07:29:07 pm
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 17, 2017, 07:40:38 pm
Allthough Kabuki isn't playable in Zero, he does appear in it. I think Kuest sounds ridiculous to be honest, and I hate intentional misspellings in titles.

Anyway, my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I was just being goofy. ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on May 17, 2017, 07:52:32 pm
Very nice. You gave me some hope i can enjoy this great translation on consoles :) After release of the translation can you compile the Snes9X Xbox360 or Ps3 version too?
My opinion is that play this great game on PC its like take a shower in sockets :) Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.
Sure, i could give it a try  8)

xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.
I can recompile Snes9x GX for Wii, just point me to the change :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on May 17, 2017, 08:02:27 pm
xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.

I see, thanks for clearing that up mate!

I really hope Doug releases his Snes9X version that supports this english patch, I really don't want to use the other emulators but if it can't be helped then I guess I will be forced to use Bsnes.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 17, 2017, 10:07:49 pm
Sure, i could give it a try  8)
I can recompile Snes9x GX for Wii, just point me to the change :beer:

You should ask DougRPG how it's done. It's beyond me!

I couldn't get his SNES9X hack to work on my computer, but one tester could. It kept hassling me about a dll file, or something.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Mugi on May 17, 2017, 10:11:13 pm
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?

to my knowledge, a port of snes9x exists for psp, and as it was stated earlier, it takes one line of changes to the code to get the game work, so if the source of the psp port is available or someone knows where to reach the dev, it should be doable.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 17, 2017, 10:17:30 pm
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?

As Mugi said, there is an SNES9X emulator for PSP, but it can't run TM Zero in English without modification. DougRPG shouild be able to tell people how to modify the emulators to be able to run it.

That said, PSP and Vita's SNES emulation can be pretty choppy. I'm talking ten frames per second. It might be kinda disappointing.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on May 18, 2017, 12:14:00 am
Kingmike said that the first game to leave the title in Japanese like this in the west was Shin Megami Tensei III on the PS2, but I think Suikoden did it even earlier on the PS1. There may have been others, too, but I'm not sure. Suikoden is the earliest that I can remember off-hand. Well, you could say that the Japanese title is actually Gensou Suikoden, but the logo is exactly the same for both the English and Japanese releases, at least for the first game.
I've guessed Gensou Suikoden was to differentiate itself from the Koei series. Or maybe "Suikoden" alone was a rather generic title to the Japanese? (Namco didn't have a problem making a Sangokushi game on the Famicom despite Koei's games existing on the console.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 18, 2017, 10:06:32 am
I've guessed Gensou Suikoden was to differentiate itself from the Koei series. Or maybe "Suikoden" alone was a rather generic title to the Japanese? (Namco didn't have a problem making a Sangokushi game on the Famicom despite Koei's games existing on the console.)

Suikoden originally is a famous Chinese book about heroes throughout China. I'm guessing that the Koei property must actually be based on the book, thus no change was necessary. However the Konami property was an original story, so they added Gensou to make it clear that it was an original story in a fantasy RPG sort of world, not set in China. That would explain it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on May 18, 2017, 07:08:47 pm
Do you think this will work on the android Snes9x EX emulator?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 18, 2017, 10:38:21 pm
Do you think this will work on the android Snes9x EX emulator?
Without being specifically hacked to run the English version of the game, no.

Right now it obviously wouldn't run it, but if the emulator is hacked to play the game in the future, then yes.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: d557charger on May 19, 2017, 08:45:40 am
I just wanted to chime in and say that it will feel a bit less like a game from the 90s without it having an English title. I'm a big language nerd myself, and personally love studying Korean and Hanja (Korean word for Kanji). Still, I am probably going to either make up a name based on content or translation for use with friends... my friends who I've talked to about this have already reverted to calling it FEOEZ... :(


That said, I do understand and agree with you for not wanted to make an official one. As often as not these titles were not translations of the Japanese name (example Secret of Mana rather than "Legend of the Holy Sword", Link to the Past vs "Triforce of the Gods"). So if you went that route, it could potentially turn into a real fight over what would "best characterize" the game. And as for using the Japanese name but in English, "Devil's country" or "Demon Land" (I see in the wikipedia for the game 境 is translated as cave but in Korean that character just means territory?) both sound super garrish. In a way, Far East of Eden does carry the same meaning - a land far from or "outside of" heaven "天外"   (just fyi, the Korean reading is "CheonOe MaGyeong" (Oe is pronounced "way" -- just following standard Romanization its "oe" ). Haha, guess I found what I'll call it for fun! :) 


Anyway, I just wanted to say I support your decisions, and the main reason this translation exists is because of your persistance over the last few years, so you have every right to decide. I'm sure most of us hard core players are all in to use the Japanese name too... but the wider audience you deserve to have play and experience this might find the Japanese Title hard (it is kind of hard to say or to remember the English spelling of), and as a result, I think its pretty likely the ROM could end up renamed just like the Wikipedia Article.


Also, thanks again for your work. Watching this get finished over the past few months has really given me the motivation to power through my semster at Uni, 4 weeks left!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: darthhelcius on May 19, 2017, 04:05:43 pm
I personally love the title being the japanense name...to me "Tengai Makyou Zero" sounds super cool as a game title!! Actually that's how I've been referring this game since my first contact with it (I only learned about the "Far East of Eden" thing much later).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: d557charger on May 19, 2017, 08:23:16 pm
I also like the name. Above someone discussed that the ROMs would possibly be renamed with English, and I also think that's probably likely, noting that it is a strong possibility, but saying I support Tom's decision too.

I can see both sides. Even though I'd been checking on this translation since around 2007, even this past fall I had to look up "Far East of Eden Zero" to get the correct spelling again. That's when it hit me - in the 10 years since, I've learned a few hundred "Chinese Characters" - at least the Korean readings/meaning(and the meanings are usually pretty similar across the board). I had to look up the 3rd, meaning demon or devil, and now, for me, having the characters to "anchor" the spelling to, remembering it is no problem, and I think Tengai Makyou Zero is a cool name!

But that's also kind of a problem, since it took me reading and looking up one of the Kanji for me to remember and appreciate the name. For most of the audience an English translation is going to reach, Tengai Makyou is going to be a meaningless blob of vowels and consonents. Which is a shame, but a reality. I think it'd be cool if Tom made a little translation thing about the name in the manual, like 天, (ten) = heaven, 外, (gai) = outside (of), is the character used for gaijin, outsider/foreignor, etc. But again, a lot of people aren't going to read the manual - it would be cool for some subset of the crowd though!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 19, 2017, 08:57:51 pm
The reason why it should not be called Far East of Eden is because "Far East of Eden" is only used on titles that take place in Jipang. Not all of the games in the Tengai series do. "Tengai Makyou Daiyon no Mokushiroku: The Apocalypse IV" doesn't include Far East of Eden on the title screen or packaging for this very reason. So while it is a Tengai Makyou game, it doesn't fall under the Far East of Eden umbrella. I mean, the game is set in America. It should not be called "Far East." (If anything, it is Far West.) The other game that doesn't feature Far East of Eden on the cover, Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai, is also a part of the Tengai series, but it not only doesn't take place in Jipang, in fact it doesn't even take place on planet Earth. (I have read so many articles online that incorrectly claim the game takes place in Jipang, but it's simply not true.)

That said, perhaps people will change when they see the title screen. On the Japanese packaging, the only thing that they can see and understand is the small bit of ornamental English text at the top, so they latch onto that. In the translated screen, "Tengai Makyou" is written in the largest font, so maybe that will influence them. I will use the phrase "Ten Guy Mock, Yo" in the read me file as way to teach people how to say the title out loud, along with the translated meaning of Tengai Makyou. I won't put it in the manual, though. Just the read me. The manual is supposed to be an English recreation of the Japanese manual, so I didn't change anything that would break that illusion. There were a few changes from the Japanese manual, but nothing substantial.

On wikipedia, Makyou (as the zen term) was translated as "ghost cave" or "devil's cave" (with its own religious implications) but as you might guess from the character's meaning, "territory," the word has other definitions besides the zen one. It can be defined as "the demonic realm" (in other words hell), making it "The Demonic Realm Outside the Heavens" (which is still a mouthful). While this phrase doesn't really seem to have much to do with Ziria (the first game in the series), it is strongly linked to Zero's plot.

Good luck with the rest of your studies!

I hope that people grow used to the Japanese title, as they did with Suikoden or Shin Megami Tensei.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 19, 2017, 09:09:27 pm
You don't have to make a literal translation of the name in order to translate it. There are many non-literal translations of the game's title that are not being explored at all. Dunno why.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 19, 2017, 09:22:00 pm
The reason why I didn't go the creative route is because I was only asked to explain what the words actually mean.

I'm not trying to create a brand new name for the games. They already have one: Tengai Makyou.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 19, 2017, 09:33:55 pm
Why not ask the community for their suggestions?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 19, 2017, 09:42:04 pm
I just saw someone who was wondering about what the words meant, and I responded to them.

I saw no need to ask the community for help coming with many different, non-literal ways of translating the title when A) it wasn't what was being discussed, and B) I have no intention of using a non-literal (or literal) translation anyway.

It's just going to be Tengai Makyou.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DrDimension on May 19, 2017, 10:32:20 pm
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: d557charger on May 19, 2017, 10:45:28 pm
Ah, so 境 has the connotation of cave in relations to Zen - that explains why that idea wouldn't be in the Korean/Chinese meaning for the character (no Zen over here) - thanks!  I was reading it as "The Demon Nation beyond the realm of the heavens" or something like that, which is why I thought "Far East of Eden" carried, in a poetic way, a similar meaning ("The pagan nation outside of Christendom" for our fictional author). I've never played any of the games (which is why I'm lurking here all the time).


Also, I didn't mean to make a problem about the title, as I said above:
>>"As often as not these titles were not translations of the Japanese name (example Secret of Mana rather than "Legend of the Holy Sword", Link to the Past vs "Triforce of the Gods"). So if Tom went that route, it could potentially turn into a real fight over what would "best characterize" the game."


Tom's not trying to play the part of a 1990's Nintendo of America marketing team, he's just trying to give us a faithful translation so we can enjoy a world from far outside of our language skills. :)  Leaving it alone is the best way to ensure "cohesion" 20 years from now when we scroll down our roms list and theres multiple games from the series from mulitple teams in it.


It is Tom's World, and we are just walking through it. he's using his own time and energy to create something nice for others who can't read japanese. That means he has every right to decide on the name.  He's not getting paid, nor are any of the others involved in the project. He's bringing something into our lives that would otherwise never have existed, and I'd say that means he gets to name his baby.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Spinner 8 on May 19, 2017, 10:46:04 pm
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

It's his translation, that's for sure. I think the typical response in this case is "feel free to translate the game yourself, and you can title it whatever you'd like".

Or you can make your own title screen hack afterward if you (clearly) feel so strongly about it... this approach is not without precedent (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/84/).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 19, 2017, 11:03:02 pm
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

Did I hurt your feelings in a past life, or something? I don't know why you're copping an attitude and resorting to such hyperbole.

All I did was provide a translation and respond to the question.

Now to address your complaint: if I stopped and asked everybody what they thought of every single word and term in the game as I had translated it, there would be a hundred different opinions, and the text could never be finalized, because nobody will ever agree about every single thing.

And what's more, the graphics hacking is already done. Not just in-game, but the box and manual have already had the title edited. Saying that they won't be changed is not being done out of arrogance on my part. The fact of the matter is, suddenly changing the title would affect far too many people who've already invested a great deal of time into the project... And there's nothing wrong with the title, as it is now. There's no pressing reason to change it.

Changing the title to something else would affect Flash PV, who would have to redo the main title, the intro logo, and the save screen graphics. DougRPG would have to reinsert them. Cargodin would have to remake the manual and box. The beta testers would have to double check all of it.

A lot of people are involved, so please don't try to spin this into me being disrespectful to the community. I have not been disrespectful to anyone here.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tc on May 19, 2017, 11:50:24 pm
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

If you want to translate another game in the series with your own name, go ahead. Far East of Eden Kabuki DrDimension The Apocalypse is a great idea. ;)

Joking aside I can relate to the point here. I too might've suggested trying to find a name that'd have been used on the SNES back in 1996, were we not so close to the end of the project.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 20, 2017, 12:19:53 am
I too might've suggested trying to find a name that'd have been used on the SNES back in 1996, were we not so close to the end of the project.

It's never been my intent to make the game seem as though it had been released on the Super NES back in 1996. The packaging alone should tell you that much. There's a reason the package has been left as a Super Famicom game box.

There are elements of the game and the translation that you simply would not have seen had they been given an official translation on the Super NES. It would have been censored. If I wanted to make the game be entirely true to the era, to make it seem like it had been released in English back in the day, it would take a lot more than a title change. It would require several substantial cuts to the story and even the graphics, and my goal is to provide an uncut experience with the Japanese game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on May 20, 2017, 01:19:04 am
The only problem I see here, is that anyone looking for info when googling: "Tengai Makyou Zero" will get Far East of Eden Zero, as result!
btw any recommend paper guide to import?
Congratulation in finishing the work, to all the people involded in this!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 20, 2017, 01:47:02 am
Google's just linking up to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia can change at the drop of a hat.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a "paper guide to import."

Are you talking about a guidebook for Tengai Makyou Zero?

I don't have it myself, but I did find this one online for a very good price:

http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall/%E5%A4%A9%E5%A4%96%E9%AD%94%E5%A2%83zero+%E6%94%BB%E7%95%A5%E6%9C%AC/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on May 20, 2017, 02:54:19 am
Why not ask the community for their suggestions?
You don't have to make a literal translation of the name in order to translate it. There are many non-literal translations of the game's title that are not being explored at all. Dunno why.
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

1/ If you want to ask for something, the least you could do is not acting entitled as if people owe it to you.

2/ Ever since 2012 and even before that with the Ao no Tengai project, Tom clarified FEoE and Tengai Makyou, while close semantically, are different enough in scope not to be interchangeable. As well as being pretty satisfied with keeping the Tengai Makyou title. He sure didn't "solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated".
It's YOUR concern, and the least you could do is bear its responsibility rather than have someone else bear it for you, this someone else being the very same person you're voicing these demands to.

3/ The game's name IS Tengai Makyou Zero, it's not a fabrication "specified" by Tom that only exists in "his world".
Nor does he have to change it to some made up title that doesn't represent the original intent, or to how it should have been in an "official" "professional" "localization".
There's no pressing need for this. Even publishers changing names often do it for reasons like marketability, not just for the hell of it.
If this much faithfulness to the original material is too much for you to bear, there's so much more "problematic" content that would need to be "adjusted" as well. Why even bother if it's so unsuitable and want it to be something it never was. Japanese samurai soap operas aren't adapted to Korean laws with a massive 4Kids on steroids airbrushing job, they simply don't export them.

4/ This is a fan project first and foremost by some people crazy about a certain obscure JRPG series. They're not being paid, they're not on a deadline and they're not bound to market considerations.
Furthermore, there's the intention for this translation to represent the Japanese game as its utmost priority.
I don't get why you think this is synonymous with development with a creative committee and focus testers overseeing the whole thing and overriding whatever decisions and choices they have. What "community" are you even talking about?
And why do you get the idea that this project must please everyone more than fulfilling its core mission?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on May 20, 2017, 10:31:52 am
Google's just linking up to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia can change at the drop of a hat.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a "paper guide to import."

Are you talking about a guidebook for Tengai Makyou Zero?

I don't have it myself, but I did find this one online for a very good price:

http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall/%E5%A4%A9%E5%A4%96%E9%AD%94%E5%A2%83zero+%E6%94%BB%E7%95%A5%E6%9C%AC/

that's the only one I have found, the other two results are and extremely expensive telephone card and some manga
I will try to buy that guide, whit a game as big as this, I was expecting some printed perfect guides, but guess not!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: rainponcho on May 20, 2017, 10:57:03 am
Quote
The only problem I see here, is that anyone looking for info when googling: "Tengai Makyou Zero" will get Far East of Eden Zero, as result!

I think it will be okay. People will learn to call the English translation itself "Tengai Makyou Zero". And others will eventually figure out that "FEoEZ" <==> TMZ. Maybe google will change its mind too after enough news articles, videos, comments about this once in a lifetime epic undertaking of a project.

And if someone translates it to another language, they can opt for another title.
(evil laugh)


Earthbound - Mother
Secret of Mana - Seiken Densetsu - Final Fantasy Adventure
Final Fantasy Legend - Romancing SaGa
Megaman - Rockman
7th Saga - Elnard - {Mystic Ark} - {"~~7th Saga 2~~"}
Contra - Kontora - Probotector
Vega - (M.) Balrog - (M.) Bison
Final Fantasy II / IV, Final Fantasy III / VI


Even if they don't care to find the alternate names, google will be there to help out some mysterious day. :mrgreen:


(unrelated side-comment)
And well Tom has spent the (most) time studying the actual game content and side-stories to it; what makes the driving fearless "leader" happy is healthy. I would want to be supportive for Tom to remain positively morally uplifting in the community's future. :applause:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 20, 2017, 12:55:21 pm
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengay Makyo it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teryaki.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on May 20, 2017, 01:58:22 pm
Quote
Kontora

This was never anything more than a laughable mistake by someone who just didn't know enough Japanese (or at all), for the record. The series in Japan is "Contra", much like it is "Gradius", "Twin Bee" or "Vandal Hearts". It just happened they used kanji (and a made-up pronounciation -- the language allows for that) instead of the mandatory katakana, but there's no possible way you can translate it as "kontora" unless you're transliterating as if it was a Japanese term, when it is not.



Quote
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengay Makyo it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teryaki.

Wow. Where are you from.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 20, 2017, 03:50:08 pm
Vienna, capital of Austria.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Recapnation on May 20, 2017, 05:05:36 pm
Ah, no worries, then. I'm sure "most people" there are aware that the best video games used to originate in Japan and that being respectful with the original, well-established name of a foreign piece is healthy and coherent. Maybe you just need to look for better educated circles?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 20, 2017, 10:04:18 pm
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengai Makyou it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teriyaki.

If someone has never heard of it, it's all the more reason to refer to it by its Japanese name. There is a reason people are familiar with "sushi" or "teriyaki." That's the way they first heard it. If you tell people that the name is "Tengai Makyou" when they're hearing about it for the first time, they will accept it.

Will it sound really Japanese to them? Of course it will. But the game IS Japanese, so that's natural. There's no need to protect them from supposedly unnatural-sounding Japanese names when you are telling them about it for the first time.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on May 20, 2017, 10:30:31 pm
If someone has never heard of it, it's all the more reason to refer to it by its Japanese name. There is a reason people are familiar with "sushi" or "teriyaki." That's the way they first heard it. If you tell people that the name is "Tengai Makyou" when they're hearing about it for the first time, they will accept it.

Will it sound really Japanese to them? Of course it will. But the game IS Japanese, so that's natural. There's no need to protect them from supposedly unnatural-sounding Japanese names when you are telling them about it for the first time.

Completely agree to this. Tengai Makyou Zero for the win.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: deubeul on May 22, 2017, 01:41:56 pm
Tengai Makyou Zero for the win, of course, even if I used  to call it Far East Of Eden BITD, as it was named in magazines.
Once you learn your lesson, how difficult is it to call a game by  its real name?


Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2017, 09:02:16 am
Anyone else interested in beta testing? Reports have been slowing down, so I was hoping for some extra volunteers.

Looking for people with prior experience beta testing, people who are already familiar with the game, and people who leave no stone unturned. (I really want the optional events checked, not just the main story.)

Let me know.

Send me a PM with your e-mail.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on May 23, 2017, 06:49:22 pm
Anyone else interested in beta testing? Reports have been slowing down, so I was hoping for some extra volunteers.

Looking for people with prior experience beta testing, people who are already familiar with the game, and people who leave no stone unturned. (I really want the optional events checked, not just the main story.)

Let me know.

Send me a PM with your e-mail.

I'don't have experience on beta testing but now i'm plenty of spare time.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: LynxxLancer on May 23, 2017, 10:37:19 pm
I have a new game+ save if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on May 24, 2017, 06:37:01 pm
Does anybody know if the game is playable on Bizhawk multi-emulator?
http://tasvideos.org/BizHawk/ReleaseHistory.html

If it does i could help you with beta testing but i hate other SNES emulators.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 25, 2017, 12:18:19 pm
i hate other SNES emulators.
Bare in mind, Bizhawk is mainly an aggregate front end. The guts are those "other emulators".
It uses bsnes v87 for SNES and XML support is still included; It should run.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on May 30, 2017, 01:01:13 pm
Anyone else interested in beta testing? Reports have been slowing down, so I was hoping for some extra volunteers.

Looking for people with prior experience beta testing, people who are already familiar with the game, and people who leave no stone unturned. (I really want the optional events checked, not just the main story.)

Let me know.

Send me a PM with your e-mail.
Sent you a PM, Tom.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on June 01, 2017, 10:55:06 am
Just sent out a new version of the patch to the testers. Still, only one has actually beaten the game so far.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: kain611 on June 02, 2017, 08:31:02 pm
Hope the beta on this is going well. Just got my messages or I would have replied sooner Tom. Project looks great so far. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on June 04, 2017, 08:05:22 pm
Thanks Tom. Downloading and playing since today.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on June 13, 2017, 12:30:06 pm
Hello folks. Hope the testing is coming along well! Good luck ironing up the final details!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on June 13, 2017, 07:30:56 pm
There is still one inexplicable graphics glitch in one area. DougRPG may have to figure that one out

Also, there have been problems with some of the almanac dates looking glitchy for not having the proper # of characters to tiles ratio. Every single day will need to be checked in-game.

The beta testing will not be completed any time soon.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Ishkabibble on June 13, 2017, 07:35:15 pm
Appreciate the amount of work going into this.  Beta testing can be a pain sometimes, and I appreciate the polish going into this project.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on June 13, 2017, 09:23:11 pm
We appreciate all the effort going into completing this project so far, there's plenty of games to play out there so I'm not in a rush.

Keep up the good work guys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on June 30, 2017, 10:04:56 am
Update: Still no word from DougRPG on that one graphic, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 01, 2017, 01:35:55 am
New update:

DougRPG successfully inserted the last missing graphic.

We have one other graphic that needs revision. This weekend, I'll run through the game one more time. Hopefully during that time, FlashPV will finish editing that one image, and then DougRPG can insert it. After that, we'll have a final bout of testing before the release.

Then we'll really be done.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on August 01, 2017, 04:44:34 am
*Explodes with excitement* Holy god damn Tom and company! Good Job Doug! So is it safe to say this is the home stretch? Either way Thank you all so much for your hard work.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 01, 2017, 09:57:07 am
We've been in the home stretch for the past three months!  :laugh:

Once FlashPV is done with the last edit, the graphics are inserted, and I've finished my one last pass with the script, then it's entirely in the beta testers' hands. That's when it gets real. Right now, we're just a step closer, but with the lack of progress lately, that step feels like a leap!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on August 02, 2017, 07:23:32 am
We've been in the home stretch for the past three months!  :laugh:

Once FlashPV is done with the last edit, the graphics are inserted, and I've finished my one last pass with the script, then it's entirely in the beta testers' hands. That's when it gets real. Right now, we're just a step closer, but with the lack of progress lately, that step feels like a leap!
Ah fair enough. Either way my excitement is as high as ever  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: StageProps on August 07, 2017, 12:57:33 pm
I remember Tomato announcing a translation of this game FOREVER ago after he finished MOTHER 3 and it immediately stood out to me as a weird, unique RPG. I've been checking back on it every so often for the last eight years or so and it's so exciting that, finally, it's close to release! Big thanks to everyone working on this for getting it done and doing it right! I can't wait to play it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 07, 2017, 08:10:09 pm
I'm glad you're excited, StageProps.

At the moment, there is one graphic giving us problems. Everything's inserted, but one graphic appears slightly scrambled because of reused tiles. It will have to have its tilemap restructured, which no other graphic required. Let's hope that it won't be too hard to do!

There is still no guarantee that it will be released soon, but hopefully it will be released at some point this year. Cross your fingers!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on August 07, 2017, 10:07:31 pm
Tom, I had to change the tilemap for other graphics too. It's not a big deal, but I didn't start this task yet. I'll send the fix to you this week.
Hopefully this will be the last graphical bug.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 08, 2017, 12:32:10 am
Hey, that's great news, Doug!

I am glad that it's not the only time you've had to redo the tilemap. Looking forward to getting the (if all goes well) final graphics update and playing through the game one more time!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on August 08, 2017, 12:40:57 am
The dream of playing this gem through this year is steadily coming into reality!  :woot!:

Sincerely thanks again guys, for all your hard but passionate work  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on August 08, 2017, 07:36:18 am
Hey, guys...

Just to be sure: the translated version will work only on specific emulators, correct? I tried to run the original Japanese one on my OUYA, but I can get past a black screen with some Japanese message. So, I am assuming that, with the English version, it will behavior this way as well...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 08, 2017, 09:53:54 am
cospefogo, those are just the initialization screens. The message on that first black screen is telling you to press the A button. It will run a diagnostic, then prompt you to reset (unless it fails the diagnostic). After you reset, you'll get a similar black screen, but this time, it tells you to press the B button. It does another check and tells you to reset a second time. After you've done that, you will be able to actually start the game. By doing this, you should be able to run the Japanese rom on your Ouya.

The initialization screens act the same way in English, but if you don't have the xml (and/or an emulator that can run it), the initialization will always fail, and though you can skip the initialization with a save file from the Japanese rom, loading the rom without the xml will just make you end up with an entirely blank screen.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on August 08, 2017, 09:57:07 am
cospefogo, those are just the initialization screens.

Oh, I see!
ありがとう、TOMさん!
わたしのにほんごはわるいわるい。。。

Thanks, man. Although I understand a tiny bit of Japanese, I was not sure about what those screens were about. So, I will wait anxiously to try the game!

Thanks thanks thanks for everything.

C.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 09, 2017, 03:56:02 am
I'm happy to help! Enjoy the game!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on August 21, 2017, 09:45:10 pm
Anyone could run the rom with retroarch? Core? I see this in retroarch updates

Core updates and bounty updates

Snes9x 2005

Working SPC7110 emulation (quickly tested with Tengai Makyou Zero and Momotarou Dentetsu Happy).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 24, 2017, 02:58:49 am
https://twitter.com/RetroTranslator/status/900599775325675520

The graphics hacking appears to done, thanks to DougRPG's most recent hacking to get the word "Blam!" to appear without any scrambling.

Once everything's integrated into the (hopefully) final test rom, I'll send it out to the testers we'll do another playthrough.

We're very, very close to the release now!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Blackiris on August 24, 2017, 08:57:08 am
How did you know that I'm almost done with my master's thesis? This will be the perfect reward for me!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on August 24, 2017, 05:30:01 pm
YEAH!! I am excited! Good Job Doug!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on August 24, 2017, 07:47:01 pm
Hi, Tom! This is really great news!!! Is it already settled which emulator will be needed to play the translated rom? I recall reading, in this same thread, something about a modified version of Higan snes core or something similar.

And what about the hard/soft requirements for it to run properly? (I have a Core 2 Duo e7500 and Windows 7 64 bits, I hope it's enough).

Furthermore, do you still intend to release the translated manual in advance to create expectation? I really liked the idea when you mentioned it :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on August 25, 2017, 12:15:48 am
Hi, Tom! This is really great news!!! Is it already settled which emulator will be needed to play the translated rom? I recall reading, in this same thread, something about a modified version of Higan snes core or something similar.

And what about the hard/soft requirements for it to run properly? (I have a Core 2 Duo e7500 and Windows 7 64 bits, I hope it's enough).

Furthermore, do you still intend to release the translated manual in advance to create expectation? I really liked the idea when you mentioned it :)

Same here. I hope this game will be compatible with the latest SNES9x because I have only console (PS3) for playing games.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 25, 2017, 03:19:26 am
Good luck with your thesis, Blackiris!

Aqualung: That's the plan! Once I get the okay from enough of the testers, and the patch is seen as fit for release, I will make the manual available and start putting together the readme.

I don't want to release the manual too early, and have everyone still have to wait a month or something. Even the box was released way too early, in my opinion.

I don't know about stats, but if you can run the Japanese rom in bsnes, you can run the English one. Many testers have said that they couldn't get bsnes to run it well, but after I told them my configurations and emulator version, it solved the problem for all of them.

The translation doesn't require a modified version of Higan. As far as I know, it will run on the official Higan, and bsnes (that supports xml). So far, it's only been tested on bsnes, but I e-mailed DougRPG, asking him to make a bml file so it can be played on Higan, too.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: deubeul on August 25, 2017, 03:54:39 am
 I have absolutely no clue if that would be possible, but it would be awesome if that could run on a hacked SuperNES Mini   :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on August 25, 2017, 04:46:24 am
While I now use Higan, zsnes still has a place in my heart as the first emulator I used. I remember I could play the japanese version of the game with the legendary graphic packs. Is there any chance of playing the translation there?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on August 25, 2017, 07:08:49 am
From what I understand, any emulator should be able to run xml or bml if the proper adjustments are made, but I can't say for sure because I'm not a hacker.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on August 25, 2017, 07:41:14 am
Actually, modifying other emulators to use bml/xml mappings instead of the hardcoded ones they have is a potentially massive undertaking. This is the main reason why this idea never took off outside of bsnes/higan.

However, just hardcoding the mapping for this specific translation is simple enough and is what DougRPG did for Snes9x. I imagine doing the same for ZSNES should prove fairly simple, at most a few lines of new code. That being said, even after patching the source code you'd still need to compile your own custom version of ZSNES or have someone do it for you. Anyway, didn't DougRPG mention he would look into adding support for the translation to other emulators as well?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on August 28, 2017, 06:30:30 pm
Bsnes/Higan is compatible with the game without any changes. It has a manifest scheme, so it's compatible with any mapping. You just need the correct manifest. I think Tom will release the game with the manifest in xml (for old bsnes versions) and bml (for new Higan versions) formats.

For other emulators the main problem is to compile the emulators. If you can compile then you just need to change/add a few lines.

I did it for Snes9x 1.54 so I can put this version in a github or something like that.

For Zsnes I looked for a way to compile but it uses old tools and libs, so it needs more work.

If someone knows how to compile other emulators please let me know, so I can compile them myself or give the instructions about what to do.

But like I said in other messages you just need to an extra megabyte at 0x400000-0x4fffff for the SPC7110 mapping, with the rom offset being 0x100000 inside the rom (the translation is adding an extra megabyte at 0x100000-0x1fffff).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: LynxxLancer on August 29, 2017, 02:18:45 am
Hey DougRPG,

I have an original Tengai Makyou Zero cartridge. Is it possible to replace chips and play the game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on August 29, 2017, 09:17:55 am
if it's working on bsnes why i can't run it on retroarch with bsnes cores? What i'm missing?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on August 30, 2017, 07:24:56 am
if it's working on bsnes why i can't run it on retroarch with bsnes cores? What i'm missing?

Are you a betatester? Do you have the manifest for the game?

Quote
I have an original Tengai Makyou Zero cartridge. Is it possible to replace chips and play the game?

The game is expanded, so I think it's not a trivial thing to do. But the game is compatible with the hardware and using a valid mapping scheme.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on August 30, 2017, 11:46:47 am
Are you a betatester? Do you have the manifest for the game?

The game is expanded, so I think it's not a trivial thing to do. But the game is compatible with the hardware and using a valid mapping scheme.
Hi DougRPG. Sent you a PM regarding a recompile.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: werewolfslayr925 on August 30, 2017, 02:21:36 pm
Thank you, Tom, DougRPG, and everyone else who's putting so much hard work into this game! I just bought a cart of the game to work on dumping it, and I'm jumping on the hype train here.

Would it be possible to get the patched game to run on an SNES9x emulator on PSP? Or is this a PC-emulator-only affair?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on August 30, 2017, 03:03:59 pm
Oh, right.
You are that person who likes to personally dump their ROMs themself.
That may not be easily doable with TMZ.
See, the game is technically 2 ROMs. One is a 1MB ROM with the SNES program, and the other is a 4MB graphics ROM for the SPC7110 chip. I can't remember what happens if you try to dump with a typical dumper, but my guess is you get the former and maybe some part of the latter (as I read some part of the SPC7110 ROM gets mapped to the SNES CPU, but not all as it uses a memory mapper). To properly dump it, from what I understand would require a custom dumper able to load code into the SNES to take control of the mapper and then spit it out.
(it's the same reason as, from what I read, Mega Man X2 cannot be dumped easily but X3 can. X2 is split on two ROMs and one is disabled and it requires being able to control the Cx4 to turn it on before it can be read.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: werewolfslayr925 on August 30, 2017, 05:09:45 pm
Yeah, I'm that guy. For the more difficult stuff, though, I can dump what I'm able to and repair the dump by comparing hex codes. I'm considering developing my own Arduino dumpers for stuff like this, though. I've dumped X2 before, but I'll have to check and make sure the dump is clean. Is it taboo to want to dump my own ROMs? It seems to be frowned upon in this community.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on August 31, 2017, 03:52:33 pm
Would it be possible to get the patched game to run on an SNES9x emulator on PSP? Or is this a PC-emulator-only affair?
You would only need to make the necessary changes in the source, re-compile the emulator binary, load and play. We are waiting for DougRPG to release the method. I'll post one for use on the Wii when this happens.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pickle on August 31, 2017, 06:49:41 pm
Thank you, Tom, DougRPG, and everyone else who's putting so much hard work into this game! I just bought a cart of the game to work on dumping it, and I'm jumping on the hype train here.

Would it be possible to get the patched game to run on an SNES9x emulator on PSP? Or is this a PC-emulator-only affair?

Ive dumped the game with my arduino cart dumper

https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=158974.0
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on September 02, 2017, 01:27:04 am
I can't even boot up to the menu in japanese  version. What the hell?

(http://s26.postimg.org/ytcges03t/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: werewolfslayr925 on September 02, 2017, 01:38:57 am
Ive dumped the game with my arduino cart dumper

https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=158974.0

Thanks, Pickle! This topic actually inspired me to start working on an Arduino dumper. I'm in the process of acquiring all the parts. Thanks for the tip, though :3
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tc on September 02, 2017, 01:45:12 am
Yeah, I'm that guy. For the more difficult stuff, though, I can dump what I'm able to and repair the dump by comparing hex codes. I'm considering developing my own Arduino dumpers for stuff like this, though. I've dumped X2 before, but I'll have to check and make sure the dump is clean. Is it taboo to want to dump my own ROMs? It seems to be frowned upon in this community.

It spits in the face of the very foundation of the emulation scene. Namely the open secret and expectation that everyone pirates, disguised under the euphemism of "backups".
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on September 02, 2017, 02:47:55 am
I can't even boot up to the menu in japanese  version. What the hell?

(http://s26.postimg.org/ytcges03t/image.jpg)

The first two times you boot the game, it does a check to initialize the SRAM and/or RTC.
On the first boot, hit A and reset. The second time, hit B and then reset. After that the game should run normally.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on September 02, 2017, 07:26:06 am
Are you a betatester? Do you have the manifest for the game?

The game is expanded, so I think it's not a trivial thing to do. But the game is compatible with the hardware and using a valid mapping scheme.

I have it, i've tried with all retroarch snes cores, don't work.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Rick74 on September 02, 2017, 12:17:16 pm
I have it, i've tried with all retroarch snes cores, don't work.

I was able to get Tengai Makyou Zero to work using BSNES in Retroarch this way

Get the game running in Higan, then copy rtc.ram and data.rom from higan's ROM folder into RetroArch's system folder. Watch out for conflicts with other SPC7110-based games

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/issues/406
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on September 02, 2017, 03:12:34 pm
I was able to get Tengai Makyou Zero to work using BSNES in Retroarch this way

Get the game running in Higan, then copy rtc.ram and data.rom from higan's ROM folder into RetroArch's system folder. Watch out for conflicts with other SPC7110-based games

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/issues/406

Is this method work with Retroarch's SNES9X 2010 emulator core too? Because I have PS3 console only, but I really wanna play this great game.
https://github.com/libretro/snes9x2010
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on September 02, 2017, 03:40:32 pm
I was able to get Tengai Makyou Zero to work using BSNES in Retroarch this way

Get the game running in Higan, then copy rtc.ram and data.rom from higan's ROM folder into RetroArch's system folder. Watch out for conflicts with other SPC7110-based games

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/issues/406

i've tried with higan 0.104 and i don't find rtc.ram an data.rom files. What version of higan are you using and where are stored these two files?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Rick74 on September 03, 2017, 12:54:50 am
i've tried with higan 0.104 and i don't find rtc.ram an data.rom files. What version of higan are you using and where are stored these two files?

Higan .104, same as you.  Here's what I did...

Copy Tengai Makyou Zero rom to desktop. Unzip if your rom is zipped.  Load with Higan. (Now when Tengai Makyou boots for the first time, you have to follow the on screen prompts and first press 'A', the power cycle higan, then follow the onscreen prompts and press 'B' and power cycle higan one last time. The game should now load). Go back to the desktop, and in the extracted Tengai Makyou folder, there should now be a 'Super Famicom' folder. In that folder, you'll find a few files, including the two mentioned above that you'll need to place in RetroArch's 'system' folder.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on September 03, 2017, 07:36:08 am
not working. i've put these two files from higan and i have the manifest.xml on the same sfc folder. i;ve tried with all snes retroarch cores. What version of retroarch and what snes coreare you using?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SCO on September 03, 2017, 07:49:38 am
It spits in the face of the very foundation of the emulation scene. Namely the open secret and expectation that everyone pirates, disguised under the euphemism of "backups".

Or maybe you could quit being judgmental and realize the translation community depends on the same exact dumps in order to have a translation reach everyone. If the dumping process is not reproducible, or gives different results, it is 'A Problem'. Proliferation of even more dumping 'standards', or being 'forced' to use a different base for a hack is something i don't want.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on September 03, 2017, 11:32:17 am
Um... Dumping your own ROMs is what you're supposed to do. Pretty sure that's why we provide hashes to ID ROM dumps and not just the name of the GoodSet ROM or something.

Precisely how you acquire your backup is up to you, but to imply that dumping your own ROMs is contrary to community standards is false and unwanted.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Rick74 on September 03, 2017, 12:09:20 pm
not working. i've put these two files from higan and i have the manifest.xml on the same sfc folder. i;ve tried with all snes retroarch cores. What version of retroarch and what snes coreare you using?

Sorry I can't help out more..I didn't use the manifest... Just those two files.

I'm on the latest stable Retroarch and the latest bsnes balanced core.   All I've done is take those two files from above and placed them directly in the Retroarch system folder where all other necessary bsnes files go

Have you defined a path for that system folder in Retroarch?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: w1ck3d on September 04, 2017, 06:54:09 am
blaw blaw blaw

Pretty damn sure he was being sarcastic. That said, at least one SNES dumping method produces corrupt data, as noted by Byuu. So regardless of how you obtained your dump, you could still have a corrupt dump and any existing hacks could be based around a corrupt dump too.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tc on September 04, 2017, 07:22:46 am
Funny in hindsight, but it wasn't my intention at the time. I was attempting (unsuccessfully) to mean what I said in a purely factual sense.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 06, 2017, 07:27:56 am
It's hard to say what the status of this project is, at this point. There are technical things being discussed between DougRPG and DDS concerning some suggestions from byuu that I can't even begin to understand.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: meunierd on September 06, 2017, 09:29:44 am
I've been loosely following that -- none of it is really major as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on September 06, 2017, 09:48:27 am
Where can we follow this discussion of the titans?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on September 06, 2017, 09:57:42 am
I'd like to ask something if it's not much of a nuissance (disclaimer: it's not related to the current status of the project):

is that discussion related about the game translation itself, or is it about the emulators in which it will run?

thanks.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 06, 2017, 10:55:27 am
That discussion is taking place largely through e-mail, so it's not up for public viewing. I don't know much about it, but from what I gather, it's about how the data is structured with the rom/roms, and how the unconventional way the game is structured will impact current and future versions of Higan. DDS was talking about making a special patching tool to simplify the process, which involves splitting the rom into three different roms (data rom, program rom, and expansion rom).

At the moment, playing the game through Higan might be a little more complex until Higan's v105 release, which will make the process automatic, and runnable through a single .sfc (and a .bml). bsnes and the hacked snes9x will be able to run it with the .sfc and .xml in any case.

It isn't clear to me if the data restructuring that was suggested will require the testers to play through the game AGAIN... If that's the case, judging by the reaction of the testers so far, that'll be a real set-back because I can already see burn-out setting in.

The translation itself is fine - one tester has reported that he has a question about one line, which he said he'll e-mail me about later. Other than that, I've heard nothing. I am pretty confident that the translation itself has no substantial issues, but there are technical snags that prevent a release nonetheless. For how long, I can't say. I just hope the game can come out this year.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Saikyou on September 06, 2017, 01:39:14 pm
I'm going to play this game on my RetroN5. I bought the game last month. 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 07, 2017, 02:51:00 am
Since I'm not in a hurry I don't mind if the english patch is released a bit later, as long as there's progress I'm ok with it. It sucks that the testers are getting burned out though, if we can get some new testers to help that would be better.

I'm interested in playing this game on the hacked Snes9X, I don't like Bsnes or Higan that much. Hopefully you guys can release the hacked Snes9X once the english patch is out.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 08, 2017, 08:33:37 am
I have one tester playing now who found a typo recently. (Spendid instead of Splendid.) I was really happy that was caught. He also reported glitched shop names, which is a glitch that has been fixed before, but it keeps popping up every few revisions or so.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on September 09, 2017, 08:35:48 am
You found a needle in the haystack. Way to go! :thumbsup:

Just don't overdo it guys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: kain611 on September 09, 2017, 05:13:09 pm
Willing to test if anyone needs additional help.

kain611@gmail.com
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on September 13, 2017, 09:17:54 pm
I have one tester playing now who found a typo recently. (Spendid instead of Splendid.) I was really happy that was caught. He also reported glitched shop names, which is a glitch that has been fixed before, but it keeps popping up every few revisions or so.
It's great to help! I love these projects, and a "new" great game which was previously only playable for japanese speakers, is always a win-win situation for everyone.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on September 15, 2017, 12:15:54 am
That discussion is taking place largely through e-mail, so it's not up for public viewing. I don't know much about it, but from what I gather, it's about how the data is structured with the rom/roms, and how the unconventional way the game is structured will impact current and future versions of Higan. DDS was talking about making a special patching tool to simplify the process, which involves splitting the rom into three different roms (data rom, program rom, and expansion rom).

At the moment, playing the game through Higan might be a little more complex until Higan's v105 release, which will make the process automatic, and runnable through a single .sfc (and a .bml). bsnes and the hacked snes9x will be able to run it with the .sfc and .xml in any case.

It isn't clear to me if the data restructuring that was suggested will require the testers to play through the game AGAIN... If that's the case, judging by the reaction of the testers so far, that'll be a real set-back because I can already see burn-out setting in.

The translation itself is fine - one tester has reported that he has a question about one line, which he said he'll e-mail me about later. Other than that, I've heard nothing. I am pretty confident that the translation itself has no substantial issues, but there are technical snags that prevent a release nonetheless. For how long, I can't say. I just hope the game can come out this year.

Please, could you test with retroarch?, it have all the emulator as cores but i can't run it and i don't know why. Some users are reporting is working.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on September 18, 2017, 09:08:14 am
After the patch is released the community can patch it for all systems. I want to play it on my Switch.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 22, 2017, 11:39:30 pm
Update:

Got some glitch reports in, relating to item names and strategies. It's a little baffling because the reports largely seem to be issues that I thought were addressed before - things seem to be rebreaking.

I hope DDS can replicate these issues in the current rom.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 23, 2017, 10:01:41 pm
Thanks for keeping us up to date Tom, hopefully those issues can be addressed.

Just in case, is this game the hardest Snes game to translate?, I mean, apparently is much harder than the other Snes games like "Mystic Ark" which was a pain in the ass to translate. Apart from the compressed graphic of this game which is already pretty hard to hack/crack or whatever is the rest of the game harder or more trickier to translate than "Mystic Ark"?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 24, 2017, 07:44:37 am
I did not translate Mystic Ark, so I can't say which would be harder to translate.

From the footage that I've seen of it, there are next to no graphics to translate, if there are any at all, so it would mainly just be a matter of script translation... Scripts can be quirky, though. Especially when it comes to auto-generated battle feed text.

TM Zero doesn't have any battle feed text, and it seems that neither has Mystic Ark.

In terms of the text that I've seen, they are probably about the same. Nothing too hard. Well, no. TM Zero might be a little harder because of the almanac. It has a lot of real world historical events that I had to research one by one to get the spellings and descriptions right.

Mystic Ark would not have any need for that sort of research, as far as I know. So TM Zero might be a little harder, for that reason alone.

I am sure there are games that are harder to translate, in terms of the basic script. TM Zero was pretty straight forward. There were some quirks that could have been a real pain in terms of formatting, especially when the script calls for the time and date, or the game auto-formats the lines... Working with DDS made all of those tough parts much simpler than they might have been.

Most of the work came from "flourishes" that I added, like pauses at commas and periods for spoken lines, or colored heart/music note icons. (You have no idea how finicky those were to get just right!)

I also am proud of timing the karaoke songs so that the words play in time with the music. (No small feat, I assure you!)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 24, 2017, 08:44:52 am
I see, thanks for taking your time to explain that, it is appreciated!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on September 24, 2017, 12:12:40 pm
This explains why the TM Zero was not translated until now. Many people gave just up.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 25, 2017, 07:49:04 am
I don't think many people gave up. Only a few even attempted it in the first place. I think people didn't care enough about it from the start. It's just not a familiar game to them.

Mystic Ark refences "The 7th Saga," a game that more people know, but Tengai Makyou means as much to most people as Idea no Hi.

Anyway, one of the testers (a very thorough one) said that the game is error-free now. He's played through it twice.

At this point, I should start writing the read-me and passing it over to DDS, DougRPG, and FlashPV for them to write their own comments about the project. It shouldn't be long now. Maybe sometime in October, I guess. (Unless the testers find something else.)

I doubt that they will.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on September 25, 2017, 07:55:28 am
Well for one thing the game's ROM was huge..
MAIN ROM - 5.00 MB (5,242,880 bytes)
GFX pack - 7.81 MB (8,193,528 bytes)

is little bit bigger than the max a little over 5 megabytes and that doesn't even include all the graphics extended stuff we're just ordering two separate chip that's like 8 megabytes Plus the uses the
S-DD1 data decompression chip to decompress those stored Graphics in the other chip so yeah there's a lot to translate and then some..


 I don't remember for certain but I think some of the texts and stuff was stored in those compressed graphics so they have to be edited then taken care of...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cccmar on September 25, 2017, 09:39:22 am
Mystic Ark refences "The 7th Saga," a game that more people know, but Tengai Makyou means as much to most people as Idea no Hi.

I played through Idea no Hi a while ago. It really is a bizarre game! It seems to be considered kusoge by a lot of people from what I've seen, but I don't know if I'd go as far. It had a pretty interesting plot, and I liked the characters by and large. You are right though, it doesn't seem to be particularly well-known.

As to Tengai Makyou... I hope that no further issues occur. :) Good to see that this project is about to be completed.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 25, 2017, 06:05:02 pm
Anyway, one of the testers (a very thorough one) said that the game is error-free now. He's played through it twice.

At this point, I should start writing the read-me and passing it over to DDS, DougRPG, and FlashPV for them to write their own comments about the project. It shouldn't be long now. Maybe sometime in October, I guess. (Unless the testers find something else.)

I doubt that they will.

Holy crap!, it's finally here, I've been waiting for almost 2 decades to play this goddamn game, that's almost 20 years!

Are there any plans in releasing the modified Snes9X along with the patch?, I don't want to use Higan to play this game. And like always, awesome job guys!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on September 25, 2017, 06:13:11 pm
Holy crap!, it's finally here, I've been waiting for almost 2 decades to play this goddamn game, that's almost 20 years!

Are there any plans in releasing the modified Snes9X along with the patch?, I don't want to use Higan to play this game. And like always, awesome job guys!

I have the (J) ROM already setup to run in ZSNES <-- LEGENDARY!!! :) ;) :P
needs the gfx pack though and that might be hard to find what with DeJap GONE
they were the devs originally working on Far East of Eden ZERO...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on September 25, 2017, 06:20:00 pm
Just wanted to pop in and confirm for everyone that Tom's translation is excellent and the game itself is easily worth the wait--even if by some unfortunate occurrence we testers missed something!

Also, playing on an old version of bsnes was not nearly as much of a hassle as I originally thought. I personally used bsnes v.088, and my old laptop had no problem running things!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 25, 2017, 06:35:52 pm
I have the (J) ROM already setup to run in ZSNES <-- LEGENDARY!!! :) ;) :P

To be honest, I was also using Zsnes and it was my main Snes emulator for a really long time, I recently switched to Snes9X because the latest version finally added rewind support. The reason I still used Zsnes was because of the rewind feature but now that Snes9X has it I don't see any reason to use Zsnes anymore.

If the Zsnes developers release a new Zsnes version fixing the audio issues I might consider going back to Zsnes again but at this moment that emulator is pretty much dead.

BTW, I still have the GFX pack to run this game on Zsnes, it's been sitting in my old HDD for more than a decade =p
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on September 25, 2017, 07:15:52 pm
I didn't think ZSNES was THAT outdated that it still needs translation packs to run the game.
Wasn't SPC7110 decompression cracked in like 2003? The final ZSNES update was in 2007.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 25, 2017, 07:26:26 pm
Melchior, one of my goals with the game is to get people to refer to this game by the title "Tengai Makyou Zero" rather than F.E.O.E. Zero, because some entries in the Tengai series are not inspired by Far East of Eden, P.H. Chada's book about the history of Jipang.

For instance, Tengai Makyou Daiyon no Mokushiroku The Apocalypse IV, is set in America, not Jipang. As such, it is a Tengai Makyou game, but it is not a F.E.O.E. game. Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai is set on an entirely different planet, and Jipang doesn't appear in it at all.

So this is why I want to make sure that the distinction is clear, and that people realize that Far East of Eden is only on the package because of the (fictional) book that "inspired" the series. The Tengai Makyou game series is a collaboration between "P.H. Chada" and the developers at Hudson, to bring Far East of Eden to the people of Japan, told through the medium of gaming.

I recommend that people use the compatibility releases of bsnes if you have a weaker computer. That's what I use; bsnes' reputation made a lot of people think that it just wouldn't run, but all of the testers were able to get it running without any issues.

And hey, thanks for your contributions, magictrufflez!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on September 25, 2017, 07:31:28 pm
ahh... so Far East of Eden ZERO refers to a book then?
still I like this name better, partially because I can pronounce it easier... :P ;)
and it sounds way cooler then
"Tengai Makyou Zero", what does it even mean/translate as?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on September 25, 2017, 07:47:59 pm
I didn't think ZSNES was THAT outdated that it still needs translation packs to run the game.
Wasn't SPC7110 decompression cracked in like 2003? The final ZSNES update was in 2007.

You're right, I just tried Zsnes without the GFX pack and it worked with no issues, the GFX pack is not needed at all anymore.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on September 25, 2017, 07:52:35 pm
hmm...  if   FEoEZ/ uses SPC7110 decompression ..

then the S-DD1... ooh now I remember.. Star Ocean 1 (SNES)???
yup SO1..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#S-DD1

still at
MAIN ROM - 5.00 MB (5,242,880 bytes)
GFX pack - 7.81 MB (8,193,528 bytes)

HOW ON EARTH did the game devs fit 8MB down into less then 5MB of space..???
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 25, 2017, 08:31:25 pm
There is no book called "Far East of Eden Zero." (Nor is there such a game.)

There is only ONE book, called "Far East of Eden: Ziria," a made-up book (it doesn't actually exist, it's just part of the game's marketing) written by "P.H. Chada" about the history of Jipang, focused on a young man named Ziria. The story goes that P.H. Chada, an American historian, worked with Hudson to bring his book to Japan as a game, and the Japanese developers chose to rebrand the game as Tengai Makyou: Ziria instead of keeping the title the same as the book.

But they kept the "original English title of the book" on the game's package as decorative text out of respect. The games that are set in Jipang put FEOE on the package to reference that they reflect P.H. Chada's history of Jipang, but not all of the games are set in Jipang, as I said, and not all of the games have FEOE on the package.

If you're having trouble with the pronunciation of Tengai Makyou, it is best approximated as "Ten Guy Mock Yo." It's not that hard to say, if you think of it like that.

It translates to something like "The Devil's Cave Beyond the Heavens." However, much like with Suikoden or Shin Megami Tensei, it is best to just leave it as the proper name of the game series, and respect the fact that Far East of Eden and Tengai Makyou, though they share a history, are not interchangeable.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: StageProps on September 26, 2017, 10:29:03 am
I just hope I'll be able to play this on my 3DS--the only time I have to play games is on my commute, and I've never really enjoyed playing SNES emulators on my computer. I know DougRPG has this working in Snes9x, and there is a port of it for the 3DS, I just don't know where to start. Hopefully it'll be clearer after the patch comes out.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 29, 2017, 02:27:46 am
From what I understand, the PC version of SNES9x is separate from the version on your 3DS, so it probably will require direct modification. I hope you'll be able to play it one day!

I'm just waiting on readme updates from DougRPG and Cargodin at this point.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: elmer on September 29, 2017, 11:29:24 am
I'm just waiting on readme updates from DougRPG and Cargodin at this point.

Excellent ... it's getting so close!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2017, 07:26:07 am
Cargodin's entry has been received.

Just waiting on DougRPG's entry for the readme now.

I'll reveal the manual and complete packaging once he sends it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on September 30, 2017, 03:47:06 pm
So near at last!  :woot!:

This just will deserve a celebration  :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 01, 2017, 03:44:28 am
Let's start the countdown!

10, 9, 8...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on October 01, 2017, 08:12:39 pm
From what I understand, the PC version of SNES9x is separate from the version on your 3DS, so it probably will require direct modification. I hope you'll be able to play it one day!

I'm just waiting on readme updates from DougRPG and Cargodin at this point.

Please test it with retroarch cores!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 01, 2017, 11:49:49 pm
I can't test it because I don't have it... But hopefully you'll be able to test it yourself this month!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: djnforce9 on October 06, 2017, 10:52:52 am
Just wanted to say that I decided on a whim to see if Tengai Makyou Zero as ever translated as I too really wanted to play it back in the day and even after the game would boot, I'd be lost because it's all in Japanese. Glad I did go looking because here it is almost done. Thanks for taking up this project; I didn't realize how involved it was until I started reading through.

I look forward to playing this and I'll give "Oriental Blue - Ao no Tengai" a try as well since it was recommended near the start of this thread.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 06, 2017, 11:56:25 am
OOH BTW did the devs working on this translation manage to fix this
games RTC (Real Time Clock) feature???
because!! its date ranges are absurdly old... and top off a like 2004 and the second date range I have no idea why  but it goes from 1900 to 1999 or something...  :banghead:

FIX? please!... lol ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: djnforce9 on October 06, 2017, 12:13:22 pm
Yes, I read way earlier in the thread that it was fixed. It's no longer limited to the year 2014 (1999 on one of the other screens) or earlier and seeing as the events in game only use the month, day, and time, it had no impact on gameplay.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 06, 2017, 12:14:45 pm
Yes, I read way earlier in the thread that it was fixed. It's no longer limited to the year 2014 (1999 on one of the other screens) or earlier and seeing as the events in game only use the month, day, and time, it had no impact on gameplay.

ok thx for the info!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 06, 2017, 02:31:41 pm
Yes, I read way earlier in the thread that it was fixed. It's no longer limited to the year 2014 (1999 on one of the other screens) or earlier and seeing as the events in game only use the month, day, and time, it had no impact on gameplay.
I think Tom did say there was one very secret event that would only happen in 1996. But that was it?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 06, 2017, 03:16:38 pm
The 1996-only event has been moved to 2018.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on October 06, 2017, 03:50:08 pm
so... anyone playing the game in 2019 or 2020, will not be able to see that event?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: djnforce9 on October 06, 2017, 04:01:42 pm
Could the secret event be re-programmed to be dynamic such as a month or two after the date selected during initialization so that everyone has a chance to experience it and the rom won’t need to be changed after 2018?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 06, 2017, 04:31:08 pm
The 1996-only event has been moved to 2018.
Wahoo!

so... anyone playing the game in 2019 or 2020, will not be able to see that event?
Boo! lol :P ;)


Could the secret event be re-programmed to be dynamic such as a month or two after the date selected during initialization so that everyone has a chance to experience it and the rom won’t need to be changed after 2018?
BETTER idea!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 07, 2017, 03:59:56 am
so... anyone playing the game in 2019 or 2020, will not be able to see that event?

They still can, but only if they lie about the date when they set the clock with the goal of triggering that particular event. (It's the same way with the Japanese version.)

Could the secret event be re-programmed to be dynamic such as a month or two after the date selected during initialization so that everyone has a chance to experience it and the rom won’t need to be changed after 2018?

No, it's more complicated than that... The "event" takes place at very specific (and very short) spans of times in a few locations. Doing so would not be an accurate recreation of the game, which is the goal for this project.

Most people will not trigger it. Most Japanese people missed it, too. But even if you trigger it, you're not likely to be all that impressed. The significance will go straight over the heads of 99% of the people playing it in English. Don't get your hopes about it. If you miss it, you've essentially missed nothing.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on October 07, 2017, 08:50:05 am
But even if you trigger it, you're not likely to be all that impressed. The significance will go straight over the heads of 99% of the people playing it in English. Don't get your hopes about it. If you miss it, you've essentially missed nothing.

Considering the incredibly obscure (at least obscure to me--I do have a passing knowledge of the subject though) Japanese folklore reference required to trigger the secret boss, I do not doubt this for a second.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Freestate on October 07, 2017, 01:23:37 pm
Final rom still not working with retroarch bsnes cores.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 07, 2017, 01:47:59 pm
Eager to test it in the SNES.EMU on OUYA's!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mz on October 07, 2017, 02:36:57 pm
Eager to test it in the NES.EMU on OUYA's!
Don't waste your time, it won't work: Tengai Makyou Zero is a Super Famicom game.

(Also, you'll need to wait for someone to create/modify an SFC/SNES emulator able to play it on Android.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 07, 2017, 02:45:38 pm
Don't waste your time, it won't work: Tengai Makyou Zero is a Super Famicom game.

(Also, you'll need to wait for someone to create/modify an SFC/SNES emulator able to play it on Android.)

First: typo! I did mean SNES.EMU on OUYA.
Second: I just believe it by seeing it. I want to try by myself...
At least the original japanese ROM seems to work.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 07, 2017, 08:12:45 pm
lol  ;D ;D :o 8) :P :thumbsup: so I will always play a ROM via ZSNES FOREVER lol ;)
I also have SNES9x, Higan, and BizHawk for testing ONLY.. lol ;) :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 08, 2017, 01:11:38 am
At least the original japanese ROM seems to work.

The emulator is making a special exception for the Japanese version TM Zero that allows it to run. That exception needs to be altered for the English version. This can only be done by updating the emulator.

So the fact that the Japanese version runs does not mean that the Ouya's emulator can run the English version. It would need to be altered to account for the alterations through the xml/bml. The only thing you'd be able to do, at best, is view the initialization screens, which will pop an NG and not let you proceed (if you can even view them at all).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 08, 2017, 11:23:20 am
I made this account just to thank Tom, DougRPG, and the rest of the crew for their efforts and enthusiasm to get this translation going.  I've been following the translation's progress ever since DeJap initiated the project, and it looks like this thing will finally see the light of day after being in translation/hack limbo for more than a decade.

TMZ was the game that got me into the series despite still knowing little about the games.  I hope this translation will put the series on the map and get people to want a translation for the rest.  Once this is out, I want Dai-yon no Mokushiroku (preferably, the PSP version) done next.  Then, either Manjimaru or Kabuki-den.  But my ultimate dream is to have all entries translated. :)

I wonder if this game will run on the SNES Classic out of the box, without the translation patch.  I mean, it does emulate the Super-FX chip.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 08, 2017, 02:10:16 pm
When the game comes out people will be updating their emulators for this game. Don't worry about it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 08, 2017, 05:58:47 pm
When the game comes out people will be updating their emulators for this game. Don't worry about it!
yeah that is gonna be the BIG/BUG problem... lol :P ;)
Higan is the only SNES in active development...
as far as can tell.. SNES9x had a update early this years and ZSNES not in years... meh :( X(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on October 08, 2017, 10:14:36 pm
yeah that is gonna be the BIG/BUG problem... lol :P ;)
Higan is the only SNES in active development...
as far as can tell.. SNES9x had a update early this years and ZSNES not in years... meh :( X(
I will be updating and releasing an update to Snes9x Wii the moment the changes that has to be made to the source gets available.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 08, 2017, 10:38:31 pm

I wonder if this game will run on the SNES Classic out of the box, without the translation patch.  I mean, it does emulate the Super-FX chip.
With the official emulator? EXTREMELY unlikely Nintendo would write support to a third-party mapper that, to my knowledge has not been used in any VC release. (there were only two other games to use the SPC7110, right?)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2017, 01:31:54 am
TMZ was the game that got me into the series despite still knowing little about the games.  I hope this translation will put the series on the map and get people to want a translation for the rest.

I don't think it will put the series on the map, as the series is pretty much dead (Konami owns the IP), but it will be a nice little treat for those who are "in the know," much like Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai.

The next game in the series that I want to work on is Tengai Makyou Ziria, but I'm going to focus on Last Bible III and Zill O'll Infinite Plus ("Infinity: Souls of Zill O'll") first.

P.S. Still waiting on DougRPG's contribution to the readme. The game is ready right now. I'm just waiting on him to write a small blurb for the readme, at this point. Cross your fingers, I guess.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 09, 2017, 11:36:47 am
I hope it'll be soon. I've actually got a little bit of time to play the game right now. I've been looking forward to seeing this project completed for such a long time.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 09, 2017, 01:08:58 pm
With the official emulator? EXTREMELY unlikely Nintendo would write support to a third-party mapper that, to my knowledge has not been used in any VC release. (there were only two other games to use the SPC7110, right?)

Yeah, it was just wishful thinking, I guess.  I've seen a list of games that people have tried on the unit, and most that used special chips didn't work.  Maybe something like RetroArch can support them in the future.  That thing allows you to play Neo Geo, Genesis, and GBA games (among others) on the SNES Classic right now.

I don't think it will put the series on the map, as the series is pretty much dead (Konami owns the IP), but it will be a nice little treat for those who are "in the know," much like Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai.

By "put the series on the map" I simply meant to say for a bigger crowd to take notice of the series, which hopefully inspires more translators/hackers to work on making patches for them.  However, I've yet to see someone else carry the same passion you have for translating games. ;)

P.S. Still waiting on DougRPG's contribution to the readme. The game is ready right now. I'm just waiting on him to write a small blurb for the readme, at this point. Cross your fingers, I guess.

I can almost taste it. I'm glad I'll get to fully appreciate this game before I die.  Outstanding job holding on.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: jadekitten on October 09, 2017, 03:40:36 pm
Tom, I have ALWAYS wanted to play the Saturn one with the haunted house at the beginning.  Is there any hope for that?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2017, 07:35:00 pm
I hope it'll be soon. I've actually got a little bit of time to play the game right now. I've been looking forward to seeing this project completed for such a long time.

I hope so, too. It's out of my hands, unfortunately. I figure the number of people who will have time for this patch will drop significantly once the new Super Mario Bros. game releases later this month.

By "put the series on the map" I simply meant to say for a bigger crowd to take notice of the series, which hopefully inspires more translators/hackers to work on making patches for them.

Don't worry. I'll do the rest, even if they're not popular.

Tom, I have ALWAYS wanted to play the Saturn one with the haunted house at the beginning.  Is there any hope for that?

I'm a little weird about this sort of thing. When I eat a meal, I generally start with the parts I like the least before the parts that I like the most. In the same way, when I translate a game, I try to start with the parts of the game that are the most boring and monotonous, like system text, menus, and interface stuff. As you might guess by now, when I choose a game to translate, I don't skip to the very best.

The only reason I did Zero instead of Ziria is because Lost Templar had made such wonderful progress on it already, and I couldn't pass on the opportunity to help finish the project. I want to focus on Ziria next.

Anything's possible in the future, though! (Well, except TM III: Namida.) I don't have any way to play a PS2 patched game. My computer's too weak for an emulator, and my system isn't modified. So that one's pretty much off the table until I get some amazingly powerful computer (which isn't going to happen in the next decade).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on October 09, 2017, 10:16:01 pm
I'd like to say, you don't need a particularly powerful computer to be able to emulate ps2 decently. I've played from beginning to end jrpgs such as Dragon Quest VIII and Tales of the Abyss without much problem in Pcsx2 emulator, on a Core 2 Duo E7500 with 4GB DDR2 and a 512MB 9600GT card. I've even played some Citra games in that rig (slowly, but more or less playable most of the time. Bravely Default 1 and 2, for instance).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on October 09, 2017, 10:34:32 pm
Anything's possible in the future, though! (Well, except TM III: Namida.) I don't have any way to play a PS2 patched game.

Swap Magic is pretty cheap. I haven't tried a patched game, but it might be worth looking into.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 09, 2017, 11:24:30 pm
I'd like to say, you don't need a particularly powerful computer to be able to emulate ps2 decently. I've played from beginning to end jrpgs such as Dragon Quest VIII and Tales of the Abyss without much problem in Pcsx2 emulator, on a Core 2 Duo E7500 with 4GB DDR2 and a 512MB 9600GT card. I've even played some Citra games in that rig (slowly, but more or less playable most of the time. Bravely Default 1 and 2, for instance).

I don't know any of the technical jargon, so I have no idea if that's powerful, and it's hard to compare it to mine. You say you got it running on Core 2 Duo, but I just have a standard Core 1, I think. I haven't done any video card additions or memory upgrades. Certainly nothing to warrant calling my computer a "rig!"

Swap Magic is pretty cheap. I haven't tried a patched game, but it might be worth looking into.

I wouldn't know where to begin finding that sort of thing. I don't have a credit card, so I'm unable to order one online. I'd have to find one in a brick and mortar store, which I don't expect would be a simple task.

In any case, there aren't many PS2 translations I want to work on, anyway. Namida isn't all that important to me. (I was rather disappointed by it, to be honest.)

Maybe by the time I get to it, I will have a computer that can run it, along with a flying car.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 10, 2017, 01:24:21 am
P.S. Still waiting on DougRPG's contribution to the readme. The game is ready right now. I'm just waiting on him to write a small blurb for the readme, at this point. Cross your fingers, I guess.

You know Tom we can live without a readme text file. You can add it later, right?
C'mon Tom publish the patch!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 10, 2017, 01:49:21 am
You know Tom we can live without a readme text file. You can add it later, right?
C'mon Tom publish the patch!

Releasing a patch without a readme is like releasing a movie without credits. Most people stop watching once the credits roll, but ultimately, they still need to be there.

You are mentioned in the readme as well, dejan07.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 10, 2017, 12:55:19 pm
The 4th Apocalypse?
From what I heard, the PSP version was better in terms of gameplay content but had some censorship from the Saturn version. (such as changing the name of the Native American tribe from Indian to redskin or something. Although I think it might have only been around the same time the PSP version was released in Japan, that people in America started saying redskin was an offensive term and demanding some pro sports teams to change their names)
Though some of that content (especially around the last dungeon) was said to restore content meant for the Saturn version but cut due to rushed development.
I know the PSP version fit on only one disc due to UMD having a much larger capacity but I'm guessing PSP has more RAM than the Saturn as well to reduce loading time? (Tomato streamed the full game but by the end he was very interested in avoiding as much loading time as it seemed his Saturn was starting to break down from loading every battle animation.)

My guess is the best thing would be if somehow the two could be combined to create a best version.
I imagine text could easily be uncensored but perhaps not so movies.
I see the high prices on DS Tengai Makyo II whereas (unless prices have significantly changed) the PCE original was a very cheap game. Did the DS version have some gameplay improvements (although it was said to have censorship)?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 10, 2017, 11:00:05 pm
I hope that DougRPG hasn't vanished again.

I haven't received any replies lately.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 11, 2017, 01:06:46 am
 :-\
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: jadekitten on October 11, 2017, 01:10:10 am
I hope that DougRPG hasn't vanished again.

I haven't received any replies lately.

If he has, what does that mean for the patch?  So many are looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 11, 2017, 02:59:16 pm
If he has, what does that mean for the patch?  So many are looking forward to it!

I doubt he'll disappear completely. I'm sure he's just busy. If October passes without any update, I won't be able to release it as I'd hoped, but I'll announce a specific release date for the patch if it comes to that. If he doesn't contribute to the readme by that date, then I will write up a section thanking him for his BIG contributions to the project and release everything at that time.

I don't want to have to do that, though.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: jadekitten on October 11, 2017, 03:10:37 pm
Can't you release like a readme-addendum later? I mean I don't know the guy but wouldn't he want us all to enjoy his and your work as soon as possible? I am not trying to be snarky or anything, just asking.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Starscream on October 11, 2017, 09:22:51 pm


I wouldn't know where to begin finding that sort of thing. I don't have a credit card, so I'm unable to order one online. I'd have to find one in a brick and mortar store, which I don't expect would be a simple task.

In any case, there aren't many PS2 translations I want to work on, anyway. Namida isn't all that important to me. (I was rather disappointed by it, to be honest.)


It's possible to use a softmod with PS2 memory cards these days, the modification can be done by anyone who already can run homebrew stuff. It would probably be relatively easy to find someone online who does this for you if it really comes to the point where you want to work on a related translation.
I'm planning to mod a spare card myself in the coming days as a backup in case my hardmodded PS2 breaks down.


Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 11, 2017, 09:25:43 pm
hmmf... :/  best things like with any Fan translation..
lol use an emu... in the case of PS2 there is only the best PCSX2..
but u gota dump your own BIOS..
took me years to find a dumping tool that would work right..
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 11, 2017, 09:34:29 pm
It's possible to use a softmod with PS2 memory cards these days, the modification can be done by anyone who already can run homebrew stuff. It would probably be relatively easy to find someone online who does this for you if it really comes to the point where you want to work on a related translation.
I'm planning to mod a spare card myself in the coming days as a backup in case my hardmodded PS2 breaks down.

I tend to avoid online dealers or modders, as I have heard about a lot of people getting ripped off or robbed on Craigslist or whatever. I am limited to what I can buy in a store.

hmmf... :/  best things like with any Fan translation..
lol use an emu... in the case of PS2 there is only the best PCSX2..
but u gota dump your own BIOS..
took me years to find a dumping tool that would work right..

I would think a dumping tool is even harder to find than a swap tool, but even if I was able to dump it somehow, I doubt my computer is good enough to run a PS2 emulator. (It can't even run The Witcher 1.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Starscream on October 11, 2017, 09:50:57 pm
I tend to avoid online dealers or modders, as I have heard about a lot of people getting ripped off or robbed on Craigslist or whatever. I am limited to what I can buy in a store.

I was thinking about places like here, it would be rather rich if nobody around the romhacking community had the connections to send you a modded card :P heck depending on the project I might even send you one for free if it came to it - price of a used card + delivery should be about 10 Euros to anywhere in the world from where I live.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 11, 2017, 10:06:40 pm
That's a kind offer! Of course, it would still be years before I could work on it. I'll focus on Ziria for the time being!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 11, 2017, 11:01:26 pm
I doubt my computer is good enough to run a PS2 emulator. (It can't even run The Witcher 1.)

Here is my system specs..
via a CPUz Report:
https://valid.x86.fr/97evki (https://valid.x86.fr/97evki)

MY ELITE GAMING RIG aka a JUGGERNAUT! MuWhaha
can run PCSX2 at a FULL 60fps with res set to 3x native..
whats your system specs..

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 11, 2017, 11:39:49 pm
I'll focus on Ziria for the time being!

Ziria is the first in the series and it should be translated for sure but i wanna ask you if you compare Zirias script to Manji Maru how big is the difference?
I heard that Manji Maru is a behemoth of a rpg.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 11, 2017, 11:41:12 pm
Ziria is the first in the series and it should be translated for sure but i wanna ask you if you compare Zirias script to Manji Maru how big is the difference?
I heard that Manji Maru is a behemoth of a rpg.

A behemoth of a rpg.???

how so?? looong game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2017, 12:25:00 am
There's always more text than you think!

That applies to pretty much any game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 12, 2017, 01:36:10 am
A behemoth of a rpg.???

how so?? looong game?

Yes, very long and for the time it was the most expensive game ever created.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 12, 2017, 04:24:07 am
Yes, very long and for the time it was the most expensive game ever created.

ooh EXPENSIVE? just HOW expensive?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengai_Maky%C5%8D_II:_Manji_Maru
SEE EVEN on the box of this one its "Far East of Eden 2 - Zira"

Quote
The game world consists of over 20,000 screens of overworld maps.
The game also features 300 types of enemies,
48 different boss characters,
more than 90 minutes of cutscene animation,
three hours of voiced speech,
24 CD music tracks,
and over 80 PSG chiptune music tracks.
O_O OOh yeah! that is a LOT all right!?
PS3 PS store: 179 MB if that is size is anything like it was in 1992 when it was originally released
then HUGE it was.. O_O


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop
and it did NOT even make that list lol :(
but I noticed

- Final Fantasy 7  - $145 Mil!!  O_O :thumbsup: ;D
- Final Fantasy 9  - $40  Mil+
- Final Fantasy 13 - $65  Mil+
these made the list

and top on the list was Call of Duty 4 - MW 2 at $250MIL !!!!!!
and $200 Mil of was ADVERTISING! lol!  :crazy: :crazy: :laugh: :o


it goes for now on the Jap. PlayStation Store..
Selling price    823 yen (tax included)

$7,33 US Dollars $7k for a videogame?! wow that is expensive....
lol just kidding.. that site goofed...
$7.33 US  that is cheep... I can't seem to find out how much it originally  cost.. yet!

https://iwasateenagepcenginefan.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/tengai2blurb.jpg
ahh it says rumored to be the most expensive... lol :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2017, 04:45:17 am
ooh EXPENSIVE? just HOW expensive?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengai_Maky%C5%8D_II:_Manji_Maru
SEE EVEN on the box of this one its "Far East of Eden 2 - Zira"

First, it doesn't say that. Second, I explained in great detail why Far East of Eden also appears on the packaging of SOME (not all) of the games in the series in addition to the kanji for Tengai Makyou (which you ignore).

It is made even more clear in the manual.

Let me explain again. "Far East of Eden" is decorative text there to reference the "book" that the games are "based on." It only applies to games set in Jipang, and not all of Tengai games are.

In a similar way, "Be Your True Mind" appears on the Japanese PS1 edition of Megami Ibunroku Persona, but it's not actually the title.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Ibunroku_Persona

An English speaker who doesn't know any better might look at the Japanese cover and say: "Oh, the title is Persona: Be Your True Mind."

But that's not actually the title.

Imagine if Persona was only written in katakana, and all you could see on the cover in English was "Be Your True Mind." You would then think that title was "Be Your True Mind," even when it wasn't.

Basically, you are turning a blind eye to the actual title of the game, just because it's in kanji and the English catches your eye more.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on October 12, 2017, 07:40:33 am
Here is my system specs..
via a CPUz Report:
https://valid.x86.fr/97evki (https://valid.x86.fr/97evki)

MY ELITE GAMING RIG aka a JUGGERNAUT! MuWhaha
can run PCSX2 at a FULL 60fps with res set to 3x native..
whats your system specs..

I've just remembered I recorded a video a few years ago showing Dragon Quest VIII in pcsx2, running in my old Athlon dual core 7750 (a cpu from 2006) with 4gb ddr2 800 and an integrated geforce 8300 graphic card (just to show one does not need a very powerful computer to play ps2 games on pc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BMPqlvU-HU

As you can see, it works fairly well and smooth at 1x resolution, even if not at 100% speed all the time (but for me, it's playable).

Oh, by the way, if anyone's using headphones, mind that in 3:30 I let out a high pitched "sigh" (I was really annoyed with the random encounters, hehehe). So be warned ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 12, 2017, 07:47:11 am
I never did the Dragon Quest series..
I may have tried one gmae once.. but

the only one I have played that used that character artist is
Chrono Trigger (SNES)

note he also does/did the Dragon Ball series..
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 12, 2017, 09:11:51 am
ahh it says rumored to be the most expensive... lol :P

I said at the time of its release it was. In 1992 what other rpgs were on the CD with cutscenes?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2017, 09:37:43 am
I've just remembered I recorded a video a few years ago showing Dragon Quest VIII in pcsx2, running in my old Athlon dual core 7750 (a cpu from 2006) with 4gb ddr2 800 and an integrated geforce 8300 graphic card (just to show one does not need a very powerful computer to play ps2 games on pc)

I don't know what those specs mean, so I can't compare it to mine.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 12, 2017, 10:00:41 am
I don't know what those specs mean, so I can't compare it to mine.

go grab CPUz  it will generate a report.. do the validation and post the link to it.. O_o
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 12, 2017, 11:43:22 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengai_Maky%C5%8D_II:_Manji_Maru
SEE EVEN on the box of this one its "Far East of Eden 2 - Zira"
O_O OOh yeah! that is a LOT all right!?
PS3 PS store: 179 MB if that is size is anything like it was in 1992 when it was originally released
then HUGE it was.. O_O

It's a CD game. Probably using CD audio. That stuff took up space. 179MB, though. PSN is likely using a compressed audio format. My ISO I ripped from an original PCE CD is about 673MB (ccd) or 462MB 7zipped.

I had probably asked before, but when it comes to Ziria, there were two versions I believe. Original CD and Super CD.
I would assume the Super CD version better but the original is probably more common (as for the user obtaining a copy of the game legitimately). I wonder which you plan to do?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ObiKKa on October 12, 2017, 12:32:24 pm
...

https://iwasateenagepcenginefan.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/tengai2blurb.jpg
ahh it says rumored to be the most expensive... lol :P

Over 300 enemies, ~50 boss characters (with their own dialogues, presumedly), MORE THAN 90 MINUTES of animation (hopefully if a hacker can insert captioning onto these videos)! Oh God, that is a massive amount of translating/editing work to do including the story text...

Tom, will you want to add English captioning to the FMV cutscenes? That means you'd need to find a quality hacker who is well versed in PC Engine CD hacking and/or PSX/Saturn hacking...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 12, 2017, 09:48:22 pm
I would definitely rather have captioning over dubbing. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

But before I concentrate on that, I need to concentrate on getting Zero out and Ziria translated.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: deubeul on October 13, 2017, 02:03:24 am
It's a CD game. Probably using CD audio. That stuff took up space. 179MB, though. PSN is likely using a compressed audio format. My ISO I ripped from an original PCE CD is about 673MB (ccd) or 462MB 7zipped.

I had probably asked before, but when it comes to Ziria, there were two versions I believe. Original CD and Super CD.
I would assume the Super CD version better but the original is probably more common (as for the user obtaining a copy of the game legitimately). I wonder which you plan to do?

That's exactly the same game, the SCD version was bundled with the duo and never been sold alone, that's why it has no spine card.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ObiKKa on October 13, 2017, 02:13:35 am
I would definitely rather have captioning over subbing. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

But before I concentrate on that, I need to concentrate on getting Zero out and Ziria translated.

I think you may have meant 'dubbing' instead of 'subbing', meaning new voice acting records in a language being implanted into a game. But we'll forgive you on that as you're busy.

OK, so just to clear all this up for us all. You're gonna do 1) Zero (SFC. Standalone story.), 2) TM 1: Ziria (PCE. Maybe part of the PSP pack too.), then 3) TM 2: Manji Maru (PCE and maybe part of the PSP pack as well as the NDS handheld version). That makes sense chronologically.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 13, 2017, 02:27:58 am
I meant dubbing, yeah. It's not that I don't know what it means. I just sometimes screw things up when I type.

Then plan is to translate Ziria, then Manjimaru, then Fuun Kabukiden for the PC Engine. By that point, I might as well do Kabuki Ittou Ryoudan, and then add everything to the PSP collection.

It'll take a while to get to that point, though.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Stitch34 on October 13, 2017, 07:35:55 am
My dream come true thanks to you guys!
I read that problems could appear with znes.
is it the same if i put the rom on a snes cartridge like snes everdrive ?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on October 13, 2017, 07:54:42 am
My dream come true thanks to you guys!
I read that problems could appear with znes.
is it the same if i put the rom on a snes cartridge like snes everdrive ?

Flashcards won't play even the original Japanese ROM due to the custom chip included in the game cartridge. Naturally, the same applies to the translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SageOwl on October 13, 2017, 11:34:05 am
Flashcards won't play even the original Japanese ROM due to the custom chip included in the game cartridge. Naturally, the same applies to the translation.
Don't remind me :(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 13, 2017, 01:08:41 pm
Flashcards won't play even the original Japanese ROM due to the custom chip included in the game cartridge. Naturally, the same applies to the translation.
I thought SD2SNES might've supported nearly everything but the SuperFX and SA-1. Could well be wrong though.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 13, 2017, 02:43:49 pm
I thought SD2SNES might've supported nearly everything but the SuperFX and SA-1. Could well be wrong though.
It should.. I will check right now... since I keep it bookmarked..
ok here we go...

SD2SNES (Deluxe Edition)
$240.49 with most trimmings including a 4GB sdcard...

Can I link it here?
http://www.stoneagegamer.com/sd2snes-deluxe.html
if not I can remove it.. :( XD


Quote
A few things that may be added via Firmware updates in the future:

    GSU-1/2 (SuperFX)
    Action Replay/Game Genie code support
    SPC7110
    and more...

from the firmware dev site..
https://sd2snes.de/blog/
https://sd2snes.de/blog/status
Quote
To Do:
    GSU-1/2 (SuperFX)
    Action Replay/Game Genie code support
    SPC7110 – with the Far East of Eden Zero translation patch in the works it would be a shame not to support it. :)
    S-DD1
    ??? (you name it)

so yeah the SD2SNES does NOT YET support FEoEZ/aka/TM:Zero ;) :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 14, 2017, 01:02:03 am
so yeah the SD2SNES does NOT YET support FEoEZ/aka/TMZ ;) :P

I'd appreciate it if you would call it just by TM Zero, without the aka. (Or at least say TM Zero first.)

There are actually two Tengai Makyou games that could be abbreviated as Z, Zero and Ziria, so it's also a good idea to spell this one out as TM Zero, or if you really need to shorten it, TM0... (But 0 looks a lot like an O, so I always spell it out.)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 14, 2017, 04:39:50 am
lol ;) corrected
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dshadoff on October 16, 2017, 12:31:56 am
But before I concentrate on that, I need to concentrate on getting Zero out and Ziria translated.

Have you already received a fully-extracted script for Ziria ?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 16, 2017, 01:29:16 am
Hi, I did the tests in the real Snes and the translation is working.
So the translation is fully compatible with the real hardware.
We did some rom expansions, but these changes are fully supported by the SPC7110.
So now it's "only" a matter of the emulator devs add the support for the game in the emulators.
Right now only bsnes/higan is compatible with the translation. I have a custom Snes9x version and I'll release it after Tom's release. This way people can play in Snes9x too, until the Snes9x staff add the support in the oficial version.

More info in: https://twitter.com/Doug_RPG
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 16, 2017, 03:44:40 am
Right now only bsnes/higan is compatible with the translation.
nice.. lol I just started using Higan.. lol...
I still LOVE and prefer ZSNES.. but TIME marches on... :( XD
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 16, 2017, 05:37:52 am
(...) Right now only bsnes/higan is compatible with the translation. (...)

So, I can assume it will not work at all at SNES.EMU on OUYA, am I correct? It is built over SNES9X cores... If so, sad news for me, my friend.

Pergunta: vi no teu tweeter que tu fala português! É brasileiro?
Question: just saw on your tweeter that you speak Portuguese. Are you Brazilian?

Regards!
C.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: kogami on October 16, 2017, 05:46:16 am
It would be possible to have a picture of the cartmod PCB?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 16, 2017, 06:09:45 am
Hi, I did the tests in the real Snes and the translation is working.
So the translation is fully compatible with the real hardware.
More info in: https://twitter.com/Doug_RPG

This is a dream come true, Doug! It's playable on the actual system!

I was beginning to wonder if it was even possible, but you did it!

You are a miracle worker!

Have you already received a fully-extracted script for Ziria ?

Partial - just the dialogue.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 16, 2017, 09:25:35 am
Since DougRPG is back i can continue my countdown! 7, 6, 5, 4...

I am soooooo hyped!!!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Special on October 16, 2017, 02:56:22 pm
So the Snes9x devs know about this? I'm eager to play it but I'd have to wait for Snes9x, and who knows how long that might take...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: WerewolfX on October 16, 2017, 03:10:32 pm
Not a hacker or translator, but I'm glad to see this series getting some translations. Always though this series(along with Fire Emblem) were cursed, due to no one getting translations done.

Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen, I am eager to enjoy this series.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 16, 2017, 08:43:51 pm
I was checking the game with SNESGT version 0.230beta7 and it runs properly!  8)  I hope it also will run the ROM patched :woot!:

IS COMING NEARER!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 16, 2017, 09:36:53 pm
So the Snes9x devs know about this? I'm eager to play it but I'd have to wait for Snes9x, and who knows how long that might take...

So many of the testers said this, until they tried the version of bsnes that I use:

bsnes_v087-32bit

This has solved the issue for all of the testers who brought it up so far. I can't run Higan at full speed, but I can run this version of bsnes. no problem.

Hopefully it will work for you. Try it out and let me know if it does!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 16, 2017, 10:00:18 pm
I can't run Higan at full speed, but I can run this version of bsnes. no problem.
MWhahha can't run Higan at full steam huh.. sry...
System specs??

Here is my system specs.. ;)  ;D
CPUz Report: https://valid.x86.fr/97evki (https://valid.x86.fr/97evki)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 17, 2017, 10:12:26 am
Think about it...

DougRPG now has the only working English Tengai Makyou Zero cart in existence.

He could even print out a full box and manual for it and complete the package.

Can you imagine how valuable that would be?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 17, 2017, 10:15:52 am
Think about it...

DougRPG now has the only working English Tengai Makyou Zero cart in existence.

He could even print out a full box and manual for it and complete the package.

Can you imagine how valuable that would be?
yeah I will spend $10k on on it from him.. ;) lol
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SageOwl on October 17, 2017, 10:15:59 am
Think about it...

DougRPG now has the only working English Tengai Makyou Zero cart in existence.

He could even print out a full box and manual for it and complete the package.

Can you imagine how valuable that would be?
Hold it's value until every other repro maker starts popping em out.

Strike while the iron's hot Doug.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 17, 2017, 10:33:59 am
Think about it...

DougRPG now has the only working English Tengai Makyou Zero cart in existence.

He could even print out a full box and manual for it and complete the package.

Can you imagine how valuable that would be?

I'd get that in a heartbeat.  I love you guys.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 17, 2017, 12:05:29 pm
Wouldn't repro makers have to cannibalize other SPC7110 cartridges? That would be terrible.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 17, 2017, 01:05:32 pm
Doug, put it on auction site to see how high will it go!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 17, 2017, 01:14:21 pm
In some sense, it might be terrible. After all, each English cart created would make the original Japanese version of the game that much harder to obtain. Then again, from a collector's standpoint, it would also increase the rarity of unaltered cartridges, so people who already own the game would have a more valuable item in their collection. I figure those people would probably welcome a good deal of scarcity.

I have seen many unboxed, loose TM Zero carts sitting around in discount shelves, abandoned and totally unplayed. If people could give those old carts new life to a new audience, with a full English package to boot... Well, I don't see it as all that bad, to be honest. The fact is, the true experience of the Japanese cart went out of date in 2014, when people stopped being able to enter the proper time. With the English version, people can enjoy it just as they could way back in the day.

Is it cannibalism? You could call it that... Or you could call it a phoenix rising from the ashes.

And really, if the game can be modified from Japanese to English, there should be nothing stopping people from modifying it back to Japanese, if they were that desperate... So I don't really see all that much harm in it. To be perfectly honest, I want to go bargain bin digging for a loose TM Zero cart soon, so I can have a English box set right next to my Japanese one.

October 17, 2017, 01:18:30 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Doug, put it on auction site to see how high will it go!

Don't do that, Doug! :angel:

Do the right thing and send me your readme contribution!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on October 17, 2017, 01:59:39 pm
Reminder: making your own repros for personal use is your prerogative. Making and SELLING them is against the law, and unwillingly involves anyone who worked on the translation patch in your illegal bootlegging. Don't sell repros kids.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Helciu on October 17, 2017, 02:49:16 pm
I have the original Japanese cartridge and I'm very happy to know that there's a possibility of playing this masterpiece in my Super Nintendo in English. I play on emulators once and then, but to me there's no comparison in playing in the real thing!

I would like to thank from the bottom of my heart Tom, Doug and everybody else involved in this project. To see this gem translated is definitely a dream com true!!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: StageProps on October 17, 2017, 04:24:29 pm
I'm confused and/or grossly misinformed--is DougRPG playing the translation on an official retail cartridge? If so, how? I thought you couldn't apply a patch to a retail cart.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on October 17, 2017, 05:55:29 pm
So many of the testers said this, until they tried the version of bsnes that I use:

bsnes_v087-32bit

This has solved the issue for all of the testers who brought it up so far. I can't run Higan at full speed, but I can run this version of bsnes. no problem.

Hopefully it will work for you. Try it out and let me know if it does!

I was one of the beta testers, and I will just pop in again to let everyone know that running this version of bsnes is very doable, even on a low- to medium-end computer (my 2.3ghz laptop ran things with pretty minimal slowdowns throughout all my playthroughs). Even if Doug's altered Snes9x doesn't work for folks, as long as you aren't running an ancient rig older bsnes will work just fine.

Also, echoing the scolding on repro cart selling--definitely a moral and legal sandtrap.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 17, 2017, 07:05:06 pm
DougRPG now has the only working English Tengai Makyou Zero cart in existence.

I've been playing for the last 2 hours in the real hardware. Everything is perfect.

The credit for this real hardware playthrough goes to byuu, because he is the one who found out how register $4834 works. Without that we were lost. By "we" I mean "me", because my part depends on this $4834 register. I was very afraid some days ago, but said nothing to Tom and Dds  ;D. But everything is fine now. The project is irreversibly a success now.
I'll make a video showing the game running in the Snes.

About the Snes9x I have, I need to recompile it because the rom changed a little since I first tested. But I'll put it somewhere to download. This is version 1.54.1 modified to support the translation. The only difference to the official release is that it doesn't have the video record feature, because that needed a specifc library that I wasn't able to find.

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 17, 2017, 07:14:39 pm
Don't do that, Doug! :angel:

Do the right thing and send me your readme contribution!

Do it Doug, do it! >:D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Cargodin on October 17, 2017, 08:21:37 pm
Reminder: making your own repros for personal use is your prerogative. Making and SELLING them is against the law, and unwillingly involves anyone who worked on the translation patch in your illegal bootlegging. Don't sell repros kids.

Seconding this! I'd also like to put it out in the open that, while I did make a printable copy of the manual and assets for the game, please be cool about it and only print them for your personal use/collection.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Clone on October 17, 2017, 08:45:21 pm
Reminder: making your own repros for personal use is your prerogative. Making and SELLING them is against the law, and unwillingly involves anyone who worked on the translation patch in your illegal bootlegging. Don't sell repros kids.

I've seen Youtubers that I've subscribed to, shamelessly, advertise repros of ROM hacks and fan translations on their channels, and there even being a memorial for a site that hawks that kind of stuff. Besides the illegalities, I've never heard of any of these sites consulting the ones who actually worked on modifying the original games, or paying money to them, so I've never endorsed that kind of behavior. I don't have as much of a problem if the original team behind the modification were to give their "OK" or to sell it themselves, but I may just be the minority opinion.

Coming back, from, what?, the beginning of the thread, I am happy to hear about the progress being made on this game. I'm also astounded as to how big Manji Maru is, sounds like a playthrough of the whole series, will take a loooooooong time. So much hard work on this one, though, and perseverance, I'll be beyond the moon when Zero releases, because of all of that.

Thank you!

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 17, 2017, 09:00:10 pm
I wasn't advocating for selling repros, just entertaining a what-if scenario. I personally don't care if people make repros, though. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that. To be honest, I think dumping roms is even worse for the gaming industry, because it decreases scarcity. But it's part and parcel with being able to translate and hack these games. The good outweighs the bad.

And at the very least, repros contribute to scarcity and make games more valuable. They give new life to old games, and make them accessible to more people. They get a lot of hate around here, but I'm totally okay with them.

People can smash carts with a hammer if they want to. Once that cart is yours, it's up to you what you do with it. If someone wants to modify their cart to play it in English, I'd welcome them to do so.

If somebody tries to profit off of people not wanting to do it themselves, well, that's on their conscience. Everybody will have the opportunity to do it for themselves, at least!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Clone on October 17, 2017, 09:21:07 pm
I wasn't advocating for selling repros, just entertaining a what-if scenario. I personally don't care if people make repros, though. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that. To be honest, I think dumping roms is even worse for the gaming industry, because it decreases scarcity. But it's part and parcel with being able to translate and hack these games. The good outweighs the bad.

And at the very least, repros contribute to scarcity and make games more valuable. They give new life to old games, and make them accessible to more people. They get a lot of hate around here, but I'm totally okay with them.

People can smash carts with a hammer if they want to. Once that cart is yours, it's up to you what you do with it. If someone wants to modify their cart to play it in English, I'd welcome them to do so.

If somebody tries to profit off of people not wanting to do it themselves, well, that's on their conscience. Everybody will have the opportunity to do it for themselves, at least!

What I like about repros, is that it is kind of cool to have a never released in English SFC game, acting like a newly released SNES title. To have a box, and a manual, in English, with a copy of the English game inside, I can understand that.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 17, 2017, 09:50:33 pm
About the Snes9x I have, I need to recompile it because the rom changed a little since I first tested. But I'll put it somewhere to download. This is version 1.54.1 modified to support the translation. The only difference to the official release is that it doesn't have the video record feature, because that needed a specifc library that I wasn't able to find.

Snes9x is the snes emulator I use and I've never used the record feature nor will I use it anytime soon, I'm not the type of gamer that likes to record things so I have no problem with your Snes9x version.

Hopefully you can release your Snes9x version once the english patch comes out. And again, good job to all you dudes involved in the english translation, you deserve a big kudos!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on October 17, 2017, 10:04:06 pm
Very nice guys !!! After 13 years I will finally be able to play this :-))

Looking forward to see the manual, Tom!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 17, 2017, 10:52:25 pm
As soon as I get DougRPG's part for the readme, the manual and packaging will get released. The patch will be released shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 17, 2017, 10:54:37 pm
As soon as I get DougRPG's part for the readme, the manual and packaging will get released. The patch will be released shortly thereafter.

HUYWAYY HAPPY DAYS!! ;) :P :)
been waiting to try this game for more then a decade.. lol ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on October 17, 2017, 11:19:43 pm
About the Snes9x I have, I need to recompile it because the rom changed a little since I first tested. But I'll put it somewhere to download. This is version 1.54.1 modified to support the translation. The only difference to the official release is that it doesn't have the video record feature, because that needed a specifc library that I wasn't able to find.
Will you release the source inside the zip? That would be cool for updating other Snes9x builds.

(https://i.imgur.com/lUtH35M.jpg)

Finally, i will be able to enjoy my Tengai Makyou Zero, now that we have an official and professional english translation. Thanks to all involved!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 17, 2017, 11:29:11 pm
LOL I love it!
I know you all call it "Tengai Makyou Zero" and that that is supposed to be the office name for the series..

BUT I love/loke it named FRoEZ lol ;)

ITS plastered all over all the game and its pack contents lol :P ;)

lol so you will forgive me ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 18, 2017, 12:03:34 am
I have stated many times the reason why this Tengai Makyou game has the name P.H. Chada's "book" (Far East of Eden) on the package as decorative text - because it refers to Jipang's history. Most of them have it on the package. Some, however, do not. It's not the title, in any case.

Tengai Makyou The Apocalypse 4 and Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai specifically are not set in Jipang, and do not have Far East of Eden on the package.

Yes, the title is in Japanese. So are the Shin Megami Tensei games. So are the Suikoden games. One of my goals with this translation is to establish this for the series. Given enough time and repetition, it will sound natural.

I really don't ask for much, but I just ask this: that people refer to the series by its proper name, Tengai Makyou, and understand that Far East of Eden is just the name of P.H. Chada's "book," and not exactly the name of the games that were "inspired" by it.

October 18, 2017, 12:08:34 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Everything you've shown in your picture has been translated, niuus, including that PLGS clock promotional insert and the cart sticker! Can't wait to share it!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 18, 2017, 12:52:46 am
Oriental Blue ooh I have the fan translation of that one....
I never did finish it for some reason..
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: niuus on October 18, 2017, 02:50:34 am
Everything you've shown in your picture has been translated, niuus, including that PLGS clock promotional insert and the cart sticker! Can't wait to share it!

Wow, what?! How nice! Can't wait to see all this material that i couldn't understand and enjoy before :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 18, 2017, 07:33:06 am
Oriental Blue ooh I have the fan translation of that one....
I never did finish it for some reason..

Are you aware who did that fan translation?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 18, 2017, 10:29:24 am
Are you aware who did that fan translation?
No.. not off the top of my head..
but I keep backups of the patches so....

Quote
Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai
English Localization (v1.0)
The Romhacking Aerie
aerie.wingdreams.net
Released: September 16th, 2013

Quote
Localization Staff

 Programming         Kingcom
 Translation         Tom     <-- Ahh HUH!!? lol ;) TY..
 Graphic Editing     Deets
 Beta Testing        Carnivol
                     DAISfromSB
                     Kaioshin
                     Lord Oddeye
                     VgameT
                     Xanathis
 Special Thanks      Gemini
hmm got it 2013... haven't touched it since 2015/2016.. for some reason... =/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Special on October 18, 2017, 01:51:29 pm
About the Snes9x I have, I need to recompile it because the rom changed a little since I first tested. But I'll put it somewhere to download. This is version 1.54.1 modified to support the translation. The only difference to the official release is that it doesn't have the video record feature, because that needed a specifc library that I wasn't able to find.

Will you release the source inside the zip? That would be cool for updating other Snes9x builds.

Pretty sure he has to because of the license.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: SCO on October 18, 2017, 03:30:22 pm
If it's a question of the patched file md5sum or similar being different, there might be a 'virtuous bug' in that softpatching might evade that (emulator uses original md5sum to recognize settings, *then* softpatches into memory). Similar to something that happens with retroarch unrecognized fan-patches, where if the core can softpatch, at least the original rom metadata is correct (even if you're not playing the 'original' rom).

On the other hand, if the patch changes something fundamental about the required chip settings on the rom itself, then using the 'post-softpatch' md5sum would be required and require another hack in the source code. *shrugs*. This is the reason i call it a 'virtuous bug', logically consistent behavior is to get the hashcode after the softpatch, even if the contrary is more useful if it works. It's basically the fault of the underspecified rom format i think.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 18, 2017, 05:33:14 pm
I'm guessing the translation is using ROM expansion that wasn't utilized on any actual SPC7110 carts, so is thus not technically officially verifiable (but obviously Doug has made a cart that works).

I'm guessing SNES9x only supports the "official" memory mapping and needs modification to support an unofficial expansion.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 18, 2017, 09:09:27 pm
I put a video in youtube showing the game running in the real Snes. The link is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be)

My english pronunciation is not so good, so be patient  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 18, 2017, 09:59:10 pm
Now the hype is out of control!

Can't wait!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 18, 2017, 10:16:56 pm
I put a video in youtube showing the game running in the real Snes. The link is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be)

My english pronunciation is not so good, so be patient  ;)

WOW! Your video made me giddy like a little school girl. No joke. Hahaha. Seeing the translated version run from the actual cart on real hardware melts my heart. Can't wait to try the patch myself and see the wonderful work you guys did!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Clone on October 18, 2017, 10:27:45 pm
I put a video in youtube showing the game running in the real Snes. The link is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be)

My english pronunciation is not so good, so be patient  ;)

That was quite nice, just made me think of my experience playing Chrono Trigger, sitting down in front of a TV, spread out, so comfortable being engrossed in a long RPG title, except this game never saw an English release, which is so cool.

Thanks for the video, DougRPG!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 19, 2017, 07:38:15 am
I put a video in youtube showing the game running in the real Snes. The link is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFeIF8GRUk&feature=youtu.be)

My english pronunciation is not so good, so be patient  ;)

It's good enough! I could understand everything you said.

Now all you need to do is send me your section for the readme!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 19, 2017, 09:02:18 am
Question is does Doug understands what readme section means? Can you ask him this in his native portuguese?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 19, 2017, 09:13:03 am
Question is does Doug understands what readme section means? Can you ask him this in his native portuguese?

Of course he understands...
He used to translate a lot of games from English to Portuguese.
Anyway, since you just suggested, dejan07, let me help:

Oi, DougRPG! Tá todo mundo nervoso aqui, numa ânsia desgraçada, pra jogar a rom traduzida, e falta só você enviar a sua parte de contribuição pro README que o Tom está elaborando. Abraxas, meu caro!
 
Cospefogo.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 19, 2017, 09:15:02 am
Of course he understands English. He's been posting in English, and he was speaking English in his video. He doesn't need me to attempt to write to him in Portuguese. I don't know Portuguese. He's told me several times that he plans to write it eventually. Maybe he's trying to negotiate with the SNES9X developer, maybe he's reworking his own SNES9x hack, or maybe he's planning to include a write-up of how to modify the cart.

I really don't know, but it's his section, and he can write whatever he wants. I'm sure he'll do it eventually.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 19, 2017, 10:02:32 am
Tom, I'm writing the readme right now. Don't worry, I'll write only a few lines. I wanted to make this video first.

About english my problem is the talking and pronunciation. But I can read any book in english. It seems strange, but I prefer to read books in english rather than portuguese.
Pronunciation needs training, and I don't have anyone to talk in a daily basis.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 19, 2017, 11:12:05 am
Yeah, your posts and your video make it clear that your English is very good, Doug. It's clear that you read a lot.

The only thing that was off about your pronunciation was the way you pronounced "chip." (It sounded like "ship.") But it's clear from the context that you meant chip, so nobody would honestly be confused. Other than that, everything sounded fine to me.

Well, wait... There was one other thing. You DID say NiniJI instead of NiniGI. Your Japanese pronunciation was off there, but you get a pass on that because that's not English. :laugh:

I'm looking forward to seeing your contribution to the readme!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 19, 2017, 11:35:18 am
(...) You DID say NiniJI instead of NiniGI. (...)

Yeah, Tom.
Portuguese is tricky when using Js, Gs and Ds.

To sound like じ, we need to use D = Di.
To sound like ぎ and げ, we need to use, respectively, Gui and Gue.
While が、ご and ぐ stays the same, Ga, Go and Gu.

So, when there are words in ROMAJI and we don't know the correct reading, a lot of confusion happens, ha ha. I used to have some Japanese-to-Portuguese books some time ago but it was a pain to study on them. All the romaji were changed to reflect the Portuguese pronunciation. HORRIBLE! The best ones should ever use kana!

Imagine...
げんじん romanized as GUENDIN.
OUCH!!!!!!!

Regards,
C.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 19, 2017, 01:20:01 pm
Yeah, Tom.
Portuguese is tricky when using Js, Gs and Ds.

To sound like じ, we need to use D = Di.
To sound like ぎ and げ, we need to use, respectively, Gui and Gue.
While が、ご and ぐ stays the same, Ga, Go and Gu.

So, when there are words in ROMAJI and we don't know the correct reading, a lot of confusion happens, ha ha. I used to have some Japanese-to-Portuguese books some time ago but it was a pain to study on them. All the romaji were changed to reflect the Portuguese pronunciation. HORRIBLE! The best ones should ever use kana!

Imagine...
げんじん romanized as GUENDIN.
OUCH!!!!!!!

Regards,
C.

That's fascinating. Thanks for the explanation!

Actually, I use a similar tactic when I have to get people to be able to say a Japanese phrase without knowing Japanese. I tend to spell it out for them using more familiar English spellings. ("Ten Guy Mock Yo" style.)

Of course, learning the language without any approximations in another language is best, but for people who just want to say a phrase or two, and are not serious about learning the language, it gets the job done!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: barbe_folle on October 19, 2017, 01:40:35 pm
We French are much more lucky. Except for h aspirated, everything seems natural for us :P

I hope Doug will allow us to try TMZ very soon. In any case good job everybody  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: darthvaderx on October 19, 2017, 04:16:30 pm
Oi, DougRPG! Tá todo mundo nervoso aqui, numa ânsia desgraçada, pra jogar a rom traduzida, e falta só você enviar a sua parte de contribuição pro README que o Tom está elaborando. Abraxas, meu caro!

In good portuguese:

Olá DougRPG! Todo mundo aqui está bastante nervoso com uma ânsia danada pra jogar a rom traduzida, agora só falta você enviar a descrição de sua contribuição no projeto para o README que o Tom está fazendo. Um abraço meu chapa.

Sorry for the exhibitionism, but I could not resist...  ;)
But thank you all for this project, I can not wait for the launch too. :beer:

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 19, 2017, 09:36:38 pm
In good portuguese:

Olá DougRPG! Todo mundo aqui está bastante nervoso com uma ânsia danada pra jogar a rom traduzida, agora só falta você enviar a descrição de sua contribuição no projeto para o README que o Tom está fazendo. Um abraço meu chapa.

Sorry for the exhibitionism, but I could not resist...  ;)
But thank you all for this project, I can not wait for the launch too. :beer:

This is what i am talking about! Great job darthvaderx!!!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 19, 2017, 09:58:19 pm
Just sent Tom my readme contribution.
If there are no errors, then my participation in this translation is over. I'm kind of sad right now  :'( :woot!:.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 19, 2017, 10:14:57 pm
Just sent Tom my readme contribution.
If there are no errors, then my participation in this translation is over. I'm kind of sad right now  :'( :woot!:.
Yesss! Thanks for all of your hard work, Doug!


Psst, if you really want to do more, you could figure out how to modify the  snes9x Retroarch core that people have running on the SNES Classic (I think it's snes9x 2010) so that people can play the translation on there. But that's just a nice to have, no pressure on that!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 19, 2017, 10:35:48 pm
Quote from: Aeana
Psst, if you really want to do more, you could figure out how to modify the  snes9x Retroarch core that people have running on the SNES Classic (I think it's snes9x 2010) so that people can play the translation on there. But that's just a nice to have, no pressure on that!

Yes, I'll try to run in Retroarch. I still need to recompile the Snes9x I have here.
But is this core running on the Snes Classic compatible with the japanese rom? If so, than any developer that can recompile the core can add the support.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 19, 2017, 11:04:05 pm
Yes. Maybe once you show what needs to be done, I can take a crack at it myself.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 19, 2017, 11:08:02 pm
Well, with the readme complete, I'll release the link to the packaging.

Which means that it's time to emulate that feeling most of us had back in the day...

It's the mid 90's. Hudson is alive and well, and you're being driving back from the game store with a brand new game in your hand: Tengai Makyou Zero in English! Sitting in the car, you open the box and look at EVERYTHING! You can't wait to get home. The drive feels like it'll take FOREVER, but you're having fun reading every detail in the manual over and over again.

All of the game's packaging, including the box, manual, inserts, map, skill chart, and survey card have been translated, and are available for download at:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1rdmclp1kfpqkjo/AAB_mkjdbMm4IYqC5GqfCfhga?dl=0

The "digital" png/jpeg options are for viewing the manual/packaging on electronic devices in whatever resolution you prefer. The "print" option has another version of the manual, with the pages re-ordered for easy printing. Each option includes all of the packaging.

(Packaging Credits)

Packaging translation:
Tom

Packaging editing and layout:
Cargodin

Packaging resources used by Cargodin:
https://michaelmannucci.deviantart.com/
http://vgboxart.com/designer/Reza/
http://vgboxart.com/forums/showthread.php?27971-Ervo-s-Super-Famicom-Template

With all of that said, look over all of the materials! Print them out, and make your own box set! (Please share pictures and videos, if you do! Send me a message on twitter @retrotranslator!)

So, when will this long drive home end? In other words, when the patch will be released?

Tengai Makyou Zero was released in Japan nearly 22 years ago, on December 22nd. The patch will be released (if all goes well) on October 22nd, Japanese time. (It may be available earlier than that, depending on your time zone.)

Spread the word!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 19, 2017, 11:18:02 pm
you guys mentioned SNES9x.... hmm..
(v1.55.0) is out on the beta/test-build download list..
The main download list in-case anyway one needs it
http://www.snes9x.com/downloads.php (http://www.snes9x.com/downloads.php)
https://sites.google.com/site/bearoso/ (https://sites.google.com/site/bearoso/)

http://www.s9x-w32.de/dl/testbuilds/?C=M;O=D (http://www.s9x-w32.de/dl/testbuilds/?C=M;O=D)
Latest test build v1.55.0 is labeled as/dated as  10/10/2017
snes9x_testbuild_10102017.zip

for testing the latest
Quote
Short changelog since 1.54.1

10.10.2017
- MSU-1 pack support by quertymodo
- Pixel placement in hires
- Fixes for a few games

17.04.2017
- MSU-1 support by quertymodo
- BSX changes by LuigiBlood
- Fixes movie playback crash

20.10.2016
- Test for hotplugging issues



but the src... =/
for v1.55.0 was not posted yet..
you will probably have to ask for it... forums maybe? :/

but the only reference to FEoEZ/TM:Z :P 
in the v1.54.1 change log... because the change log included with v1.55.0 is short...
Quote
Snes9x 1.52
- Merged bsnes' SPC7110 emulation code. Note that the .rtc
  file of Far East of Eden Zero is incompatible with older
  versions. 
so can it play the original I guess?
but I won't know till the patch is released...
LET THE JOURNEY BEGIN! ;)

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 19, 2017, 11:20:58 pm
So well, at last the almost eternal wait is near to be finished.

Thanks a HUGE lot once again to Tom, DougRPG, DDSTranslations, FlashPV, Cargodin and the whole band of beta testers, and could be also extended to everyone who tried in the past to make any work in this game (the guys from DeJap, byuu, esperknight?, etc.).  You don't even know what this release will mean to myself  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Merr Clone on October 19, 2017, 11:36:40 pm

Tengai Makyou Zero was released in Japan nearly 22 years ago, on December 22nd. The patch will be released (if all goes well) on October 22nd, Japanese time. (It may be available earlier than that, depending on your time zone.)

Spread the word!

Holy! Wow! Sounds like starting a new week with a new game, and yes if all goes well.

I would want to thank you, and the rest of the team, for releasing a new SFC RPG to enjoy, and to think that later enough I would think about all of those times where I thought that, aside from Oriental Blue and Kabuki Klash, there would be no way that I'll ever play a TM game in English. Thank you all so much!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 20, 2017, 12:12:31 am
Though this time system has me..
perplexed...
read further... meh what a headache...
come back in an hour... lol :P
and if I miss it? lol :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 01:21:53 am
If you downloaded the set at any point before the past half-hour, redownload it. There was an oversight on the map. Cryptic Arbor Castle was called "Castle of the Cryptic Trees" in Sara's description box. (This was an old name for the castle that was shortened due to not fitting in the map list in-game.) It's fixed now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on October 20, 2017, 02:09:29 am
I hope i'm not to late to win the personalized clock  8)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 20, 2017, 02:10:40 am
I hope i'm not to late to win the personalized clock  8)
lol ;) :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: pelham123 on October 20, 2017, 06:19:23 am
Great job on the manual / packaging guys. I'm a graphic designer myself, can't find a fault. Been looking forward to playing the game since DeJap days, the wait is finally over. Congratulations!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: djnforce9 on October 20, 2017, 07:42:15 am
Wow, really glad to see this reach completion. Once it's up for download, I'll be playing it for sure. Also, excellent job on the manuals and other extras; it'll make for a fun read as well.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: VioletFox on October 20, 2017, 09:53:53 am
Is there an in game reason higan has blue and red hair instead of gray and red like all the art? I don't know much about the series, I just remember byuu mentioning it off and on, so that always made me curious about the series.

Would it be possible to have a textless version of the "The Divine beasts that protect Jipang" page? I was thinking of making a semi west version of the box cover.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on October 20, 2017, 09:59:55 am
Well, with the readme complete, I'll release the link to the packaging.

Which means that it's time to emulate that feeling most of us had back in the day...

It's the mid 90's. Hudson is alive and well, and you're being driving back from the game store with a brand new game in your hand: Tengai Makyou Zero in English! Sitting in the car, you open the box and look at EVERYTHING! You can't wait to get home. The drive feels like it'll take FOREVER, but you're having fun reading every detail in the manual over and over again.

All of the game's packaging, including the box, manual, inserts, map, skill chart, and survey card have been translated, and are available for download at:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1rdmclp1kfpqkjo/AAB_mkjdbMm4IYqC5GqfCfhga?dl=0

The "digital" png/jpeg options are for viewing the manual/packaging on electronic devices in whatever resolution you prefer. The "print" option has another version of the manual, with the pages re-ordered for easy printing. Each option includes all of the packaging.

(Packaging Credits)

Packaging translation:
Tom

Packaging editing and layout:
Cargodin

Packaging resources used by Cargodin:
https://michaelmannucci.deviantart.com/
http://vgboxart.com/designer/Reza/
http://vgboxart.com/forums/showthread.php?27971-Ervo-s-Super-Famicom-Template

With all of that said, look over all of the materials! Print them out, and make your own box set! (Please share pictures and videos, if you do! Send me a message on twitter @retrotranslator!)

So, when will this long drive home end? In other words, when the patch will be released?

Tengai Makyou Zero was released in Japan nearly 22 years ago, on December 22nd. The patch will be released (if all goes well) on October 22nd, Japanese time. (It may be available earlier than that, depending on your time zone.)

Spread the word!
WoW Tom and team. The quality is amazing. Many Kudos to Cargodin !!!

Time to update the first post of this 40-page thread with this link, no?

Really excited to finally play the game. The manual trully rocks.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 11:32:21 am
I am a little concerned about the submission process for romhacking.net.

I have posted about it in the newcomer section.

Given that there is a queue, I am concerned that the game may not actually be available on romhacking.net on October 22nd. Also, a special program is needed to get the patched rom to be playable in Higan v104, and I don't know if including that program in the script is acceptable according to the guidelines.

Hopefully I can get some clarification about this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 20, 2017, 12:23:31 pm
Just downloaded the translated manual and extras.  I was blown away at the attention to detail and the amount of effort that was put into making them.  It really shows the level of love you guys have for this game.  Props to you, Tom, and Cargodin for even wanting to translate those materials.  I've never read a game manual so much before, as I just did.  Hehe.  I've learned a lot about the game already, thanks to you guys.  I also love the sticker work for the game cart.

I hope the submission process won't turn out to be much of a hassle for you.  Just happy that the patch is almost out.

On that subject, I also hope DougRPG wouldn't mind posting a tutorial on how to insert the translation patch into the actual cart, eventually (in his free time, of course), so that some of us can enjoy playing the game on real SNES hardwere. :)

Good job, all!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: midget35 on October 20, 2017, 12:57:13 pm
Thanks Tom. It is typically thorough of you to check on even that detail. Let me be the first to say: I won't be screaming for justice if this patch is released a little late! You are on the cusp of a very special achievement. It means so much to us! Just do what you can do - you've done the hard work already, sir :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Special on October 20, 2017, 01:21:13 pm
I am a little concerned about the submission process for romhacking.net.

It'll be unreliable if your after a timed release, queues can be days long, it comes down to favoritism basically, I've seen some submissions get skipped over then wait in limbo for over a week, if you're so concerned about an official 22nd release date, then just post a dropbox link or similar here on the forums as well as submit on romhacking.net.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 01:28:26 pm
I'm sorry to hear that.

I don't have any file sharing account, but I figure I can put up an e-mail address and send it out to people that way on the 22nd.

It's old fashioned, but beggars can't be choosers.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Gemini on October 20, 2017, 01:39:20 pm
You can usually ask one of the staff members to take care of that if you have a precise schedule.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 01:51:58 pm
You can usually ask one of the staff members to take care of that if you have a precise schedule.

Well, it's not that it's my schedule that's the problem. I was just unaware of the rules. For one, I thought you could upload a patch to romhacking, but now I'm hearing that's not the case.

I asked the RHDN staff, but from what I hear, it's unlikely that I can get the game released through this site on the 22nd as I'd hoped... But I'll do what I can to make sure that the game is at least available somehow from the 22nd.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: guneko on October 20, 2017, 02:08:57 pm
If I could suggest one thing I will said a 22nd December.
I feel that it will make a nice Christmas present for everybody  :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 20, 2017, 02:15:11 pm
My suggestion is upload the files on mediafire so that people can download them themselves instead of you sending e-mail's to each one who is interested. Of course submit your files for approval too.

https://www.romhacking.net/submissions/

 You will see your Queue Status here:

https://www.romhacking.net/submissions/QueueStatus/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ebonknight on October 20, 2017, 03:09:05 pm
I just signed up to say thanks to everybody involved in this project, and for giving us a good old taste of rpg nostalgia. Thank you! ;D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 20, 2017, 04:30:55 pm
Yeah, mediafire or Mega.co.nz should do the trick.
I hope it's closer to midnight on the 22nd Japan time (would give me all of Saturday to play)~
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Orochi Kusanagi on October 20, 2017, 06:05:11 pm
It's the mid 90's. Hudson is alive and well, and you're being driving back from the game store with a brand new game in your hand: Tengai Makyou Zero in English! Sitting in the car, you open the box and look at EVERYTHING! You can't wait to get home. The drive feels like it'll take FOREVER, but you're having fun reading every detail in the manual over and over again.

This is so nostalgic, I used to do this all the time when I got a new game back then. Now I'm even more excited.

Thanks so much Tom and the rest of the team that worked on this project. The manual is amazing, so much awesome work was put into making this look so professional. This game is going to be a blast to play through!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Pickle on October 20, 2017, 09:06:31 pm
can we get the snes9x patch early?
Id intend to play the game on a portable device, but i need the code changes to make to my build of snes9x.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 20, 2017, 11:04:23 pm
Hi, I uploaded at mediafire the Snes9x version compatible with the translation. The link is:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/q8hqh0cdfwy48sd/snes9x_tmz.rar

Just load the exe and run the game like any other game. Should be compatible with the japanese rom too. You need this libpng12.dll in the same folder of the exe.

I also uploaded the files I changed in the Snes9x code. There are two folders, the "original" has the original files  ::), and the "translation" folder has the modified files. Just do a diff to see what I changed. It's a very simple patch. Fell free to do a better job, because I just did the minimum to load the game.
The file is:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/lxlf5dkj50mhlpq/CodeChangeTmz.rar

I think any emulator based on Snes9x core should have these files, so it's a simple patch.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 11:05:41 pm
Guys, I got bad news. The screenshots that I submitted for the translation got auto-rejected, so you probably won't be able to download the translation from this website on the 22nd (Japanese time), but I'll definitely send the translation out to anybody who wants it at that time, even if I have to e-mail it out myself!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 20, 2017, 11:08:31 pm
Guys, I got bad news. The screenshots that I submitted for the translation got auto-rejected, so you probably won't be able to download the translation from this website on the 22nd (Japanese time), but I'll definitely send the translation out to anybody who wants it at that time, even if I have to e-mail it out myself!
ooh why did they get auto-rejected?? meh...
I have waited an eternity for the translation of this game to be ready
ooh yah! so I can wait a bit longer.. ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 11:15:20 pm
No, no. You don't have to wait. I'll still e-mail the files to anybody who wants them. It'll be the 22nd in Japan in less than twelve hours now. Just direct-message your e-mail address to me through twitter (https://twitter.com/RetroTranslator (https://twitter.com/RetroTranslator)), and I'll send it out to you myself. (Just don't send any messages through romhacking.net, as my inbox is nearly full.)

The screenshots got rejected because they didn't conform to the dimension requirements, I think. The screenshot guidelines recommend using ZSNES for screenshots, but it's not compatible with this hack. I'd be happy to submit it without any pictures at all, but one screenshot is a requirement for all submissions, unfortunately, and all four of the pictures I sent were not up to par.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Zynk on October 20, 2017, 11:29:03 pm
The screenshots got rejected because they didn't conform to the dimension requirements, I think. The screenshot guidelines recommend using ZSNES for screenshots, but it's not compatible with this hack. I'd be happy to submit it without any pictures at all, but one screenshot is a requirement for all submissions, unfortunately, and all four of the pictures I sent were not up to par.
You are not limited to ZSNES screenshots. You can use ANY emulator with screenshot capabilities, like Snes9x.

Its important to mention the ROM Information should be properly filled (Give the file name, CRC32, MD5, SHA1, and tell if its for a Header or No Header ROM). Use Gameheader utility to get those.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 20, 2017, 11:31:39 pm
You could try this version I uploaded, but I just tested and the screenshot feature isn't working  :banghead:
I think this libpng I used is not the right one.

I'll try to fix it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 11:41:37 pm
You are not limited to ZSNES screenshots. You can use ANY emulator with screenshot capabilities, like Snes9x.

Its important to mention the ROM Information should be properly filled (Give the file name, CRC32, MD5, SHA1, and tell if its for a Header or No Header ROM). Use Gameheader utility to get those.

The problem is, this hack won't run on just any old emulator.

The rom information section wasn't the problem. It was the screenshots. But it's fine. I don't mind e-mailing it out to people, even if it's a little old-fashioned.

You could try this version I uploaded, but I just tested and the screenshot feature isn't working  :banghead:
I think this libpng I used is not the right one.

I'll try to fix it.

I remember trying to get your SNES9X hack to run a while back, DougRPG, but I could never get it to work on my system. It wouldn't even start up.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 20, 2017, 11:53:18 pm
I remember trying to get your SNES9X hack to run a while back, DougRPG, but I could never get it to work on my system. It wouldn't even start up.

Try now. I think that time I only sent you the .exe, but you need the libpng too.
Please check if it's working in your system.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 20, 2017, 11:59:26 pm
No, it still doesn't work. It wants zlib1.dll.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 21, 2017, 12:10:28 am
I have the src for ZSNES... but the SPC71110 code is written in ASSEMBLER(.asm) 
so... lol the chances of seeing ZSNES updated for this...
is a number approaching zero.... lol ;)  :banghead: :'( :-\
maybe some day.. pagefault will be notified about this fan translation..
and maybe do a fix for it.. for he next version of ZSNES..
one is in the works.. there just hasn't been any news on it since maybe last year..
I will probably be using Higan from now on... for SNES emu.. since I kinda don't like SNES9x lol ;) :P
though I will always love ZSNES.. its the FASTEST SNES emu on the planet.. ;) but being mostly writeen in ASM coding it is meh to an extreme lol ;) :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 21, 2017, 12:50:10 am
Guys, I got bad news. The screenshots that I submitted for the translation got auto-rejected, so you probably won't be able to download the translation from this website on the 22nd (Japanese time), but I'll definitely send the translation out to anybody who wants it at that time, even if I have to e-mail it out myself!

If hundred of people's ask for the english patch then it will be a pain to send the e-mail to everybody, why don't you upload the patch to https://mega.nz instead and save yourself the trouble of e-mailing everybody? you guys worked pretty hard for this patch so the extra trouble with the e-mails is not worth it IMHO.

So glad to know the english patch is almost out. I was itching to play an RPG so this game jumped on top on my priority list. Just in case, how many hours of gameplay are we expecting from this game compared to the other Snes gems like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 3, Zelda, Terranigma, etc...?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 12:57:48 am
Well, sending an e-mail to hundreds of people is a lot easier than manually adding thousands of pause tags to the script, ha ha! Only five people have asked for it so far. People aren't exactly clamoring for this game, so I can handle it pretty easily, I think.

In terms of length, it's the standard RPG, thirty to forty hours if you take your time from a "Fresh Start." Seeing EVERYTHING would require loading up the game up at various times throughout the year to see the optional events, but that's not required of the player. It's just for fun. If you're playing through Restart+, you could probably beat it in one sitting, if you're dedicated.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 21, 2017, 01:15:04 am
Well, sending an e-mail to hundreds of people is a lot easier than manually adding thousands of pause tags to the script, ha ha! Only five people have asked for it so far. People aren't exactly clamoring for this game, so I can handle it pretty easily, I think.

Ok, fair enough =)

In terms of length, it's the standard RPG, thirty to forty hours if you take your time from a "Fresh Start." Seeing EVERYTHING would require loading up the game up at various times throughout the year to see the optional events, but that's not required of the player. It's just for fun. If you're playing through Restart+, you could probably beat it in one sitting, if you're dedicated.

Excellent, I plan to fully enjoy this game and take my sweet time exploring the hell out of it. Those extra events even if they are not required for the player they are still important to enjoy the game better. Is like in Chrono Trigger, once you revive Chrono you will have those extra events from the characters which are not necessary but they are extremely important and makes you love Chrono Trigger even more with the character development from those events.

If the events from this game is something like that and adds to the character development then I will definitely finish this game 100% to see everything.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 01:21:14 am
Some of the events have character development. Some are just there to add a little bit of flavor to the world. A lot of the events are tied to Japanese holidays, which might not mean as much to people in other countries, but some are familiar internationally, like your birthday or Christmas.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 21, 2017, 02:17:08 am
Some of the events have character development. Some are just there to add a little bit of flavor to the world. A lot of the events are tied to Japanese holidays, which might not mean as much to people in other countries, but some are familiar internationally, like your birthday or Christmas.

Gotcha. I have another question, is it safe to use the Save/Load feature from emulators? (not to be confused with the normal SRAM save). I use that feature a lot to keep save states from different parts of a game, will saving and loading in this particular game mess up the clock system?

Bear in mind that I plan to use the Snes9X version from Doug so if he can also answer the question I will appreciate it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 03:02:46 am
Good news, folks!

DougRPG found an older version of bsnes that has screenshot and video recording capabilities, so I was able to get the screenshots that the system demanded. The submission is in the queue! If it doesn't go through on October 22nd, Japanese time, I will still send the game at midnight to anyone who requests it (or has already requested it) through twitter.

xZabazax: I don't know about SNES9X, but in bsnes, the clock is separate. Loading a save state in the game will not change the clock. However, it will still affect your save files... So if you have saved the game at one point later in the game, then load a save state that was made at an earlier point, the actual save files will go back to how they were back at that earlier point.

So you should still be careful when loading save states.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 21, 2017, 03:20:38 am
lol ooh joy the rtc WILL be the BANE of my emu existence!! :P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 21, 2017, 03:28:23 am
Good news, folks!

DougRPG found an older version of bsnes that has screenshot and video recording capabilities, so I was able to get the screenshots that the system demanded. The submission is in the queue! If it doesn't go through on October 22nd, Japanese time, I will still send the game at midnight to anyone who requests it (or has already requested it) through twitter.

xZabazax: I don't know about SNES9X, but in bsnes, the clock is separate. Loading a save state in the game will not change the clock. However, it will still affect your save files... So if you have saved the game at one point later in the game, then load a save state that was made at an earlier point, the actual save files will go back to how they were back at that earlier point.

So you should still be careful when loading save states.

Awesome!, glad to know the screenshot issue was sorted out.

Thanks for the heads up on using the save state feature, I'll be careful with it. Can't wait to play this game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tvtoon on October 21, 2017, 10:16:01 am
What I have been looking for is actually how to change emulators (SNES9x specifically) mapping for it to work. Is there a repository holding the code so far?

No offense to your efforts, Tom and gang but if you can send me this and the translation I can take those shots. :D
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 10:58:17 am
What I have been looking for is actually how to change emulators (SNES9x specifically) mapping for it to work. Is there a repository holding the code so far?

No offense to your efforts, Tom and gang but if you can send me this and the translation I can take those shots. :D

DougRPG posted that info on the last page, check this out: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23162.msg345574#msg345574
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 11:26:42 am
https://twitter.com/RetroTranslator/status/921757485999972353

Hopefully it will also appear on romhacking.net soon, for everyone else.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tvtoon on October 21, 2017, 12:29:33 pm
DougRPG posted that info on the last page, check this out: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23162.msg345574#msg345574
Thanks, didn't see the edit. :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 12:32:29 pm
Waiting the release here, I prefer play rpgs with snes9x gx on wii via CRT.
But atleast with pc, it's better to make snapshots if I found any problem to report.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 12:52:37 pm
The translation is in: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/3243/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on October 21, 2017, 12:52:59 pm
Waiting the release here, I prefer play rpgs with snes9x gx on wii via CRT.
For anyone interested, I adapted DougRPG's spc7110 patch to Snes9x GX on the Wii.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7r1kwcjathngppr/spc7110-patch.zip?dl=1
Above is the modified source files for v4.3.7. You can get the full source below,
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx/releases/tag/4.3.7
I've tested it with the patched ROM and it works.

Thanks DougRPG and Tom for this translation! :crazy:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 12:59:44 pm
It seems like there's some sort of problem with Higan 105. Both standalone and the Retroarch core.  It works well up until I save the game and restart the emulator. Then upon loading the game, the in-game clock says 0-0-2000.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 01:10:27 pm
Yeah, it seems to happen in Higan, but not bsnes. What about the cart, DougRPG? Does it save the time properly, or does it turn it to 2000 when you load it up?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: barbe_folle on October 21, 2017, 01:12:34 pm
Finally there. Thanks Tom, Doug and everybody implied in the project.

@Tom : I'm sure there is much more than 100 people that will download the patch.  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 01:16:24 pm
I noticed that the .rtc files generated by bsnes 087 and Higan 105 are completely different. And also different sizes.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 01:32:50 pm
I tried DougRPG's SNES9X hack now, and it also screws up the date, turning it to 2045. It seems like bsnes is the only emulator that doesn't screw up the date. Clearly, something's not right. I'd like to know what the actual cart does.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on October 21, 2017, 01:36:20 pm
It's finally out. ;D

This couldn't have been possible without the perseverance of Tom, DougRPG and everyone else who worked on the romhacking for this game. Thanks a lot for making this dream come true. I hope more people will get to know the greatness of the Tengai Makyou series this way (Oriental Blue was amazing gameplay-wise but a bit too removed from the series' visual identity for its own good)

I hope the rest will follow eventually. Especially the crazier ones like Kabuki's episode and a certain other game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 01:39:30 pm
Some more tests:

Both Higan 104 and Higan 105 exhibit this exact same behavior with the Japanese ROM, so it doesn't seem to just be an issue with the hack.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 01:43:01 pm
So the big question now can only be answered by the one person in the world with the English cart:

DougRPG.

Does the English cart retain the date properly, Doug?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mcca69 on October 21, 2017, 01:47:26 pm
I using DougRPG's snes9x and the clock seems to be working just fine.  :thumbsup:
I saved the game, closed the emulator and waited for a few minutes. The clock was still indicating the right date/time.
Having a blast here...  :beer:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 21, 2017, 01:49:02 pm
I just woke up and TM Zero is out! :crazy:

One of the best days in retro translation community for sure. I am tearing up now  :'(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 02:05:55 pm
Here the cartridge is working fine. When I reload a previous saved game it shows the current time, as intended.

In the cartridge the Rtc is a independent chip that keeps turned on when you turn off the console (powered by the game's battery).
But in emulators I don't know how this works. The emulator shoud update the rtc file with the current system time when loading the game.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 21, 2017, 02:12:30 pm
Well, this is one of the most important days in ROM Hacking and Translating history, guys.  Once again thanks to you all for the AMAZING effort put in this undertaking.  You'll see how this work will get its deserved value as time passes ;)

For anyone interested, I adapted DougRPG's spc7110 patch to Snes9x GX on the Wii.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7r1kwcjathngppr/spc7110-patch.zip?dl=1

There could be a way to make this trick in order the game works on SnesGT for Windows?  ;D I hope someone could get this one working.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on October 21, 2017, 02:12:57 pm
Guys, thanks for this great translation. You are a hero, Tom. Im a big JRPG and SNES fan but I have Xbox360 and Ps3 only plus I dont want to ruin the game experience on PC :) Its a real console game and I would like to enjoy on console. So my question is: is there any chance that someone will make an update on the SNES9X for Xbox360 or Ps3? Or on the Retroarch?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 02:13:13 pm
bnses 087 as recommended by Tom works fine saving, closing the emulator, and reloading. The time remains intact. It's using that XML file that came with the patch.  The .rtc file that's written to disk is 20 bytes.

Using the manifest.bml that comes with the patch, or the one auto-generated by Higan (in the case of the Japanese ROM), the .rtc file on disk is 16 bytes and they look quite different when comparing them.  In-game, doing the initialization and then setting the time will allow the game to work just fine up until the first time I save and close the emulator, and from then on the date is reset to 0-0-2000 every time I load the save. 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: alexcom on October 21, 2017, 02:14:53 pm
Many thanks to everyone involved in this project! The SNES has a special place in my heart with a lot of great childhood memories. Would have been wonderful to play a game like this back in the day but 22 years later has almost the same effect on me.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 02:21:14 pm
I'll try to fix RTC of this Snes9x I have here.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 02:29:21 pm
I can't make it run with any emulator, it says "all ok" reset, but nothing.
Tried snes9x_tmz, Tengai Makyou Zero (Japan).rtc
in every folder, nothing.

Nothing with bsnes-classic, it doesn't have folders atleast in root, maybe in some
obscure directory or something
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 02:36:08 pm
I can't make it run with any emulator, it says "all ok" reset, but nothing.
Tried snes9x_tmz, Tengai Makyou Zero (Japan).rtc
in every folder, nothing.

Nothing with bsnes-classic, it doesn't have folders atleast in root, maybe in some
obscure directory or something

Try the emulator I use:

bsnes_v087-32bit

Make sure you have the .xml in the same folder as the rom, with the same name as the rom. Don't include any rtc file that was generated before. Start from a clean slate.

The initialization screen runs once, you press A, reset... Then it runs a second initialization, you press B, reset... And then the game's intro should run. Should be good to go from there.

October 21, 2017, 02:38:35 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Here the cartridge is working fine. When I reload a previous saved game it shows the current time, as intended.

In the cartridge the Rtc is a independent chip that keeps turned on when you turn off the console (powered by the game's battery).
But in emulators I don't know how this works. The emulator shoud update the rtc file with the current system time when loading the game.

I'm glad to hear that the actual hacked cart works. That means it's just a problem with Higan and SNES9x. That's kind of a relief... Though I'm sure it'll be a headache trying to fix those emulators.

October 21, 2017, 02:42:15 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Guys, thanks for this great translation. You are a hero, Tom. Im a big JRPG and SNES fan but I have Xbox360 and Ps3 only plus I dont want to ruin the game experience on PC :) Its a real console game and I would like to enjoy on console. So my question is: is there any chance that someone will make an update on the SNES9X for Xbox360 or Ps3? Or on the Retroarch?

I sure hope so. It would be really nice to play Tengai Makyou Zero on the PS3!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 02:56:03 pm
Now working with bsnes-classic
the problem was the thing you said about the xml need to be renamed as the rom.
Also deleted previously rtc file and its running ok
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 03:01:59 pm
Glad it's working for you now, gadesx!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 03:02:53 pm
I can't make it run with any emulator, it says "all ok" reset, but nothing.
Tried snes9x_tmz, Tengai Makyou Zero (Japan).rtc
in every folder, nothing.

Nothing with bsnes-classic, it doesn't have folders atleast in root, maybe in some
obscure directory or something

Probably you are using an invalid rom. Try to patch again with the correct japanese rom.

October 21, 2017, 03:23:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Guys, here snes9x_tmz seems to be working to me. I save the game, close the emulator, open and reload the save again and the date is the same.

Edit: And the date is even being update to my system date, so it's working as intended here. Tom it didn't work for you? Seems that there is come king of bug. We need to find the trigger.

Here bsnes v086 isn't working. After loading a previous save the date is messed up. But seems that v087 changed some stuff regarding the Spc7110 and rtc, so probably it was fixed in v087. I'll try v105.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 03:36:39 pm
Yep, it actually is working fine for me in your snes9x edit too.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 03:38:59 pm
For anyone interested, I adapted DougRPG's spc7110 patch to Snes9x GX on the Wii.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7r1kwcjathngppr/spc7110-patch.zip?dl=1
Above is the modified source files for v4.3.7. You can get the full source below,
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx/releases/tag/4.3.7
I've tested it with the patched ROM and it works.

Thanks DougRPG and Tom for this translation! :crazy:
The problem now is compiling and install a lot of things of devkit-libgc to finish this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 21, 2017, 03:47:19 pm
Though of course it was a hail Mary attempt..
I tired it in ZSNES..
FEoEZ(aka TM:Zero) passed both startup checks.. 
but a black screen there after...
so no go..
off to Higan (v105) ;) lol
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on October 21, 2017, 03:49:08 pm
The problem now is compiling and install a lot of things of devkit-libgc to finish this.
Here is a compiled version.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vtpxxlvm87vmqm/snes9xgx-4.3.7-spc7110.7z?dl=1
The libraries I used are,
-Devkit PPC 26
-libfat 1.0.14
-libogc-1.8.11.1
Complete source with changes are also included.

Also, the real time clock is working on GX after saving. 

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Rick74 on October 21, 2017, 03:56:29 pm
I am able to run the Japanese ROM in RetroArch using BSnes Balanced core...

No such luck with the patched version...

Anyone getting this to run in RetroArch?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 03:59:36 pm
Thank you so much Burnt Lasagna,
I'm going to try how it works just right now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: filler on October 21, 2017, 04:12:04 pm
Congrats on the release! :thumbsup: BTW: Are you planning to submit a news post?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 04:12:08 pm
Higan v105 Rtc feature isn't working. After loading a save the date goes to 0-0-2000.

The problem happens when you load the Sram save. A commom save state restore the state correctly, but with the date at the moment you saved, so not what we want.

Even loading a save state should update the rtc to the current system time.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 21, 2017, 04:13:57 pm
Higan v105 Rtc feature isn't working. After loading a save the date goes to 0-0-2000.

The problem happens when you load the Sram save. A commom save state restore the state correctly, but with the date at the moment you saved, so not what we want.

Even loading a save state should update the rtc to the current system time.

ooh JOY...
and I am at the stage to extract  for Higan... meh..
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 04:18:00 pm
Higan v105 Rtc feature isn't working. After loading a save the date goes to 0-0-2000.

The problem happens when you load the Sram save. A commom save state restore the state correctly, but with the date at the moment you saved, so not what we want.

Even loading a save state should update the rtc to the current system time.
Thanks for verifying the bug. This stinks. :(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 04:24:10 pm
The Snes9x_tmz is doing the correct thing. Even loading a save state updates the date to the current system date.

So for now you should use a Snes9x core emulator. Seems that Bsnes v087 is working, but we should see if when loading a emulator save state (not the sram save state) the date keeps updated. At least v105 loads the date at the moment you saved, that's not the desired behavior.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 21, 2017, 04:29:56 pm
Is it really correct to update to the current system date?  Most devices that have an internal clock allow you to set the date to whatever you want, and then they keep time after that.  I think I should be able to set it to 2010 and have time track from there, for instance.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 04:41:32 pm
Is it really correct to update to the current system date?  Most devices that have an internal clock allow you to set the date to whatever you want, and then they keep time after that.  I think I should be able to set it to 2010 and have time track from there, for instance.

Ok, you could keep saved the date you entered the first time you played the game and just update the time by the offset since then, when you load the game again.
But you should consider the offset at least, otherwise the clock system looses sense. For example, if the last time you played was 01/10/2010 1:00pm, and you play again two weeks later at 2:00am, so the time should advance 2 weeks and be at 2:00am. But if you load the game 2 weeks later at 2:00am and the game is still at the time you last played then it's wrong.

October 21, 2017, 05:00:29 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Bsnes v087 seems to be working fine. It loads a previous Sram save and keeps the correct advanced time. The when you loads a emu savestate it also updates the date.

You can download bsnes v087 here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m96tadxtux08m1k/bsnes_v087-64bit.7z
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Lentfilms on October 21, 2017, 05:19:29 pm
Congratulations on the release of the patch guys! It is really exciting to finally see this project finished and out there. Thank you Tom, DDS, FlashPV, DougRPG and everyone else who has worked on this translation. You guys are awesome :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: DougRPG on October 21, 2017, 05:31:14 pm
Congrats on the release! :thumbsup: BTW: Are you planning to submit a news post?

Yes, Tom, do it! I think this way the translation will appears at the first page.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Orochi Kusanagi on October 21, 2017, 05:35:45 pm
Thanks for the release guys, the game seems great so far! I love the style of this game, the music and color palette are fantastic and fits the mood.

Also the SNES9x TMZ that was posted works great for me! Time updates properly even when loading it back up.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 21, 2017, 05:36:22 pm
I can confirm that bsnes is working fine including clock.

(https://s1.postimg.org/1scordjmob/TM_0.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/1scordjmob/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 21, 2017, 05:48:12 pm
THEE MOST anticipated Fan Translation of the past 2+ decades!!
I am running it in Higan (v105)
So far so good.
checks good.. newgame is rolling..
lol ;)
game seems to run fine..
 a quick soft reset.. time is fine...
I shutdown Higan... and restart it, and load my srm save..
YUP the clock is now 2000! meh..
but the savestate retains the correct date.. BUT that will not help when a days weeks or months goby
in between me playing this game.. =/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gadesx on October 21, 2017, 06:07:35 pm
After reach the worldmap playing with snes9x gx "TMZ edition" Wii  :beer:, some info:
- I used the rtc and srm files from bsnes classic played previously. Working fine.
- Without the rtc file previously made by bsnes classic the RTC was 0-0-0000 or something like this lol.
- Rom with same name, xml with same name and no rtc or save, the game never run, tests and resets thing.
- RTC isn't RTC of course, I think that could be hard to make this with the emulator, maybe use the time from Wii clock, the game runs like the emulators that run pokemon without RTC and the time go fordward only
when you're playing.
- No idea about if the game is "beatable" without use exactly a true Real Time Clock emulation
or there's game time checks or something


Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on October 21, 2017, 06:35:17 pm
After reach the worldmap playing with snes9x gx "TMZ edition" Wii  :beer:, some info:
- I used the rtc and srm files from bsnes classic played previously. Working fine.
- Without the rtc file previously made by bsnes classic the RTC was 0-0-0000 or something like this lol.
- Rom with same name, xml with same name and no rtc or save, the game never run, tests and resets thing.
- RTC isn't RTC of course, I think that could be hard to make this with the emulator, maybe use the time from Wii clock, the game runs like the emulators that run pokemon without RTC and the time go fordward only
when you're playing.
- No idea about if the game is "beatable" without use exactly a true Real Time Clock emulation
or there's game time checks or something
Snes9x GX uses the Wii's internal clock to help keep time. I also noticed that importing a RTC file from a different emulator will screw up the time (for some reason). One way I found to fix this is to generate a fresh RTC file in Snes9x GX, then copy just your save over. After this, the time is kept correctly (so long as you don't mess with your Wii's internal clock). 
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on October 21, 2017, 09:16:00 pm
It's my turn now to say thanks. After having problems with Higan v105 (couldn't get past the "press B button" screen, it just keeps appearing after doing reset) I've moved to bsnes v087 (the version Tom recomended a few posts ago) and it's been working flawlessly for the roughly half an hour I've been testing it.

This translation means a lot to all jrpgs fans out there. This is going to be remembered as a milestone in the history of jrpg fan-translation, for sure. To me, it's the most groundbreaking achievement since the Final Fantasy V and Seiken Densetsu 3 ones. Kudos to all of you, guys!

I hope in the future, when my Japanese knowledge increases, I end up being listed in the read-me file of some fan-translation. Shin Momotarou Densetsu on the snes, for instance, which looks like a really neat game and I don't have news of anyone trying to translate it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 21, 2017, 09:32:18 pm
This translation means a lot to all jrpgs fans out there. This is going to be remembered as a milestone in the history of jrpg fan-translation, for sure. To me, it's the most groundbreaking achievement since the Final Fantasy V and Seiken Densetsu 3 ones. Kudos to all of you, guys!

Don't forget in this list also Tales of Phantasia  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: darthvaderx on October 21, 2017, 09:50:05 pm
Hi, I uploaded at mediafire the Snes9x version compatible with the translation.

Just load the exe and run the game like any other game. Should be compatible with the japanese rom too. You need this libpng12.dll in the same folder of the exe.

I think any emulator based on Snes9x core should have these files, so it's a simple patch.

Could you make a SNES9xTMZ 64 bit version ???

Or anyway how could I even patch the SNes9x 64-bit version?

But all I can say now is thank you very much for all these years of efforts and dedication, things that the producers themselves do not give importance (for they are only business), in your hands come alive for all of us ...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2017, 10:30:48 pm
This translation means a lot to all jrpgs fans out there. This is going to be remembered as a milestone in the history of jrpg fan-translation, for sure. To me, it's the most groundbreaking achievement since the Final Fantasy V and Seiken Densetsu 3 ones. Kudos to all of you, guys!

I'm glad it means a lot to you!

I think that there's a lot of people, even fans of JRPGs, who know next to nothing about Tengai Makyou... And there are some who are annoyed that they cannot play it on whatever emulator they please. I think that a lot of people will overlook it because of the hassle or confusion. For that reason, it may not be remembered by most as something like Final Fantasy V or Seiken Densetsu 3, which bought a lost part of a long-sought after game to a huge pool of fans.

TM Zero means a lot to people like you, who are "in the know," and I'm okay with that! I did this for the small number of people who have a genuine interest in or love for Tengai Makyou! Enjoy the game now, and in the years to come!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 21, 2017, 11:03:20 pm
Those emulator issues will be hammered out in time, don't you worry. By the way i think i have found a mistake in the text. Hermit of the Wind tells you to go West from his house...

(https://s1.postimg.org/9an5m1wjjv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9an5m1wjjv/)

but his grotto is located at the most western part of the map. The only way possible is to the East!

(https://s1.postimg.org/5nhlyjfr6j/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5nhlyjfr6j/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ginbunbun on October 21, 2017, 11:22:37 pm
I LOVE YOU DUDES!!! I waited 12 years for this :O
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 21, 2017, 11:56:59 pm
Nice, it's release time! But just to be clear, those that already have the patch were the ones that requested via Twitter, right? I wasn't able to request it that way since I don't have a Twitter account.

Anyway, still proud to be one of the first people to witness the patch's release. Great job, Tom, DougRPG, and the rest of the amazing guys that helped make this translation release possible!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Special on October 22, 2017, 12:16:31 am
No, it's out out, no twitter required.

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3243/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 22, 2017, 12:25:52 am
Those emulator issues will be hammered out in time, don't you worry. By the way i think i have found a mistake in the text. Hermit of the Wind tells you to go West from his house...

(https://s1.postimg.org/9an5m1wjjv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9an5m1wjjv/)

but his grotto is located at the most western part of the map. The only way possible is to the East!

(https://s1.postimg.org/5nhlyjfr6j/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5nhlyjfr6j/)

Well, he says that it's on the west "on the way to the Fire Bear Shrine." In other words, you have to head back to the Fire Shrine, and while you're on the way back there, you'll see it on the western side, which is still perfectly true.

He's making the distinction between the forest on the western side and the forest on the east, where Hisui lives.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Aeana on October 22, 2017, 12:30:07 am
While waiting for the Higan issues to be ironed out, I decided to unpack the Framemeister I ordered ages ago, and dig the Wii out of the closet.  Got that all hooked up and I'm now playing on Wii with Burnt Lasagna's snes9x gx mod. Works beautifully, looks awesome.

(https://i.imgur.com/1NY6aZdm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/1NY6aZd.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 22, 2017, 12:48:25 am
I'm getting hooked with the game's history!  And the sad moments start to occur so soon!  :'(

I'm gonna love for sure this game!

And I hope to see also soon getting in the works Ziria  :beer: I saw a video of that game and looks very nice indeed.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 22, 2017, 12:51:21 am
It's my turn now to say thanks. After having problems with Higan v105 (couldn't get past the "press B button" screen, it just keeps appearing after doing reset) I've moved to bsnes v087 (the version Tom recomended a few posts ago) and it's been working flawlessly for the roughly half an hour I've been testing it.

This translation means a lot to all jrpgs fans out there. This is going to be remembered as a milestone in the history of jrpg fan-translation, for sure. To me, it's the most groundbreaking achievement since the Final Fantasy V and Seiken Densetsu 3 ones. Kudos to all of you, guys!

I hope in the future, when my Japanese knowledge increases, I end up being listed in the read-me file of some fan-translation. Shin Momotarou Densetsu on the snes, for instance, which looks like a really neat game and I don't have news of anyone trying to translate it.

I started Seiken Densetsu 3 a long time ago.. but for some reason never finished it...
idk why...


I liked  Tales of Phantasia..
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 22, 2017, 01:24:36 am
You missed a lot by not finishing Seiken Densetsu 3. I am planning to do a second playthrough with a different cast of characters.
I wonder how well TM Zero stacks up to top notch Seiken Densetsu 3? TM Zero gives me Dragon Quest 6 vibes.

He's making it the distinction between the forest on the western side and the forest on the east, where Hisui lives.

He confused the hell out of me but at least i earned a couple of levels by running in circles.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 22, 2017, 02:13:05 am
No, it's out out, no twitter required.

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3243/

Cool, cool! Thanks, man. Can't wait to try it out when I get home. I'll spread the good word out to my local retro gaming group. More people need to know about this interesting series. Awesome, awesome day.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on October 22, 2017, 03:07:30 am
Not able to get it working in anything yet.  snes9x on my lap top or tablet.  Not on retroarch on my tablet using the many different bsnes cores.  hmm.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cccmar on October 22, 2017, 03:09:03 am
Congrats everyone involved in the project! That's another milestone as far as SFC translation/hacking are concerned, and a really fun game thus far. :thumbsup: Still, hopefully Last Bible 3 turns out to be much less of a pain to hack and test. :laugh:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 22, 2017, 03:33:38 am
travel27 - Don't bother trying to play on a tablet. None of those emulators have the proper hacks. Get on your laptop and try bsnes_v087-32bit.

First, patch the original Japanese rom. (The limited edition Shonen Jump rom won't work.)

Make sure to include the .xml in the same folder as the rom, and make sure the name is exactly the same as your rom.

The first initialization screen will appear. Press the A Button, wait for the confirmation, then reset.
Then the second initialization screen will appear. Press B Button this time, wait for the confirmation, then reset.

The game should begin at that point.

If it doesn't work, despite the xml and rom being named the same, in the same folder, and the initialization screens appeared, the only remaining possibility is that you're pushing the wrong button, instead of A or B as prompted, which will also cause the initialization to fail.

Also, if you try to play on an emulator that isn't able to run it, like an unhacked version of SNES9X, you'll get a black screen because it doesn't know what to do with the expanded rom.

October 22, 2017, 03:42:29 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Congrats everyone involved in the project! That's another milestone as far as SFC translation/hacking are concerned, and a really fun game thus far. :thumbsup: Still, hopefully Last Bible 3 turns out to be much less of a pain to hack and test. :laugh:

I think LB3 will go pretty smoothly!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 22, 2017, 04:23:15 am
I had high hopes for this spell!

(https://s1.postimg.org/70swsz8u17/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/70swsz8u17/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on October 22, 2017, 04:58:56 am
Sadly I cant play this great game yet :(
I tested it on XBox360 (SNES360+Retroarch emu) and Ps3 (Retroarch) consoles without luck. The result is on both consoles:

I got "The backup data isn't working! Press the A button" on the first screen. When I hit the A button the second screen appears with the following message: "SPC7110 Check Program V2.2 Mode 2, RTC Backup NG, S-RAM Backup NG, Complete, Reset the system"

And freeze. I cant reset the rom.

Could someone modify this source code and compile a standalone SNES emu or implement the updated snes9x2010 core into the retroarch emulator for PS3 or Xbox360?
https://github.com/libretro/snes9x2010

It would be awesome if the console players (man, this Tengai Makyou Zero is a pure console game)could enjoy this translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 22, 2017, 05:38:07 am
It's finally here!, the most awaited translation of any Snes game so far, awesome job!

I tested the modified version of Snes9X from Doug and the clock system works (quitting the emulator and running the game again keeps the clock so no issues here) and using the Save/Load feature also works fine and it automatically update the clock as well so you can use the Save/Load feature from an emulator with no issue. The only issue is the Fast Forward feature, for some reason it doesn't work on Snes9X with this game.

I also tested Bsnes-plus v073 and it works perfectly, no issues here and the best thing in this emulator is that the Fast Forward feature works just fine in this one so I'm reconsidering playing this game on Bsnes instead.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: emarleau on October 22, 2017, 06:38:54 am
Does anyone know where to find DDS translation's File splitter tool? I searched everywhere with no luck.

Edit: Nevermind it is included with the romhack and you need Java to run it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: koji_leo on October 22, 2017, 08:50:10 am
Thank you Tom and team!
Have anyone else tried it on N3DS?
Obviously unhacked SNES9X didnt work for me and I don't know how to hack it  :-[
The screen went black after the second initialization screen, so close but no cigar  :'(
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: khalismur on October 22, 2017, 09:14:10 am
Congratulations to all the team. This is indeed a remarkable project. Thanks a lot for your hard work!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Special on October 22, 2017, 09:15:06 am
Someone in the know should make an issue report or a pull request for the changes required over on the official SNES9x Github page, it wont ever get made to work if they don't know about it... I'd do it but I don't know what I'd be saying other then "make this game work".

https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x

Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: djnforce9 on October 22, 2017, 10:27:40 am
I'd do it but I don't know what I'd be saying other then "make this game work".

Hopefully this game is high profile enough to warrant adding support to Snes9X. I remember it being a big deal to even get working in Japanese and now for the first time English speaking players can try it too. Personally, I've waited for it since it first appeared on Dejap.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: meunierd on October 22, 2017, 11:08:12 am
Can someone that has this working post MD5 hashes of the split files? I'm having a heck of a time getting this working on MacOS.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: guneko on October 22, 2017, 11:38:15 am
Burnt Lasagna's snes9x gx mod work on Wii
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/922115065637146626
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Samarithan on October 22, 2017, 12:24:26 pm
Working in something Android emul?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KaioShin on October 22, 2017, 12:42:23 pm
Good job finally getting this white whale released. :beer:

You should consider also submitting a news post so everyone who visits the site will definitely be made aware: http://www.romhacking.net/submitnews/
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on October 22, 2017, 01:04:10 pm
Thanks for the instructions.

Finally got it working on bsnes version 087. 

One last question before I start.  Is it okay to use save states for this game?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 22, 2017, 01:41:00 pm
Save states won't screw up the real time clock, but doing so WILL load what your SAVES were at that point... You've been warned! Be careful if you're ever going to load a save state!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on October 22, 2017, 02:14:08 pm
Thanks for the heads up.  I usually use the save game and save state at the same time to avoid that issue.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: lastdual on October 22, 2017, 04:19:04 pm
just started into it, and already the level of polish put into this project is apparent. Really professional work, guys!

As a side note, is there an item in this game that allows you to avoid enemy encounters for a time?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dimasok on October 22, 2017, 05:44:18 pm
Can someone tell me how to patch it properly? I used Lunar IPS, patched it, did the 2 initialisations but I only get a black screen after. I tried to use the splitting tool too, but as soon as I select the rom, its stuck at trying to open the file.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: aqualung on October 22, 2017, 05:50:45 pm
just started into it, and already the level of polish put into this project is apparent. Really professional work, guys!

As a side note, is there an item in this game that allows you to avoid enemy encounters for a time?

There's an Action Replay (or Game Genie, I'm not quite sure now) code for removing randoms for the Japanese version, which is available at gamehacking.org, but I don't know if it will work in the English patched rom.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on October 22, 2017, 07:35:48 pm
All cheat codes on those Japanese sites that used to work with the JP version will work with this translated version. Everything uses the same addressing as the JP version asides from the expansion (used by the translated assets and text).

More good news, support for the translation is being added to the official Snes9X version! Won't be up for a little while longer, but here's already a test build (http://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip). You can thank qwertymodo for the quick fix :)

EDIT: It seems it doesn't work yet in the test build. But it's worked on at the very least.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: gyo on October 22, 2017, 09:13:51 pm
Congratulations !  :thumbsup:
I cant wait to play it !
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Jones on October 22, 2017, 09:35:11 pm
After all these years it's so good to se this game finally gets a translation.Thank you very much to all involved in the project,from the bottom of my heart.You made a dream come true!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 22, 2017, 10:21:34 pm
just started into it, and already the level of polish put into this project is apparent. Really professional work, guys!

As a side note, is there an item in this game that allows you to avoid enemy encounters for a time?

Yes, the item is called Pleasant Drum.

(https://s1.postimg.org/18q96q6dfv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/18q96q6dfv/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: lastdual on October 22, 2017, 10:41:19 pm
Yes, the item is called Pleasant Drum.

(https://s1.postimg.org/18q96q6dfv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/18q96q6dfv/)

Sweet. Codes are okay, but I'm glad to know there's a real in-game option for those who want a break from the encounter rate for a bit :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 22, 2017, 10:54:34 pm
Small gripe, but the internal checksum is incorrect.  For a project as high-profile as this, you should fix that ;)  File offset 0xFFDC: 00 2F FF D0

Also, I'm looking into merging support into Snes9x mainline, just waiting for confirmation before committing the changes.  For now, here's a test build that should work: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Samus12345 on October 23, 2017, 03:27:35 am
Thanks for making a Windows SNES9X that works! Now I'm hoping it will be put into the Retropie SNES9X.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: GHANMI on October 23, 2017, 05:37:10 am
@qwertymodo Is there a way to tie this special emulation mode to something other than the whole ROM SHA-1 hash? Like the internal header for example, or the translated strings from the boot-up check.
That way any alterations to this project wouldn't obsolete the emulator support for this immediately.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 23, 2017, 05:59:18 am
Can someone tell me how to patch it properly? I used Lunar IPS, patched it, did the 2 initialisations but I only get a black screen after. I tried to use the splitting tool too, but as soon as I select the rom, its stuck at trying to open the file.

Ignore the file splitter. It's only there for Higan v104-105, but Higan screws up the real time clock emulation - it'll be fixed in the next version of Higan, and the next version of Higan won't require file splitting to run the rom, so the file splitter is now pretty much useless. In the next release of Higan, it will be able to run the rom straight up, no splitting.

Use bsnes for now. (I use bsnes_v087-32bit.)

You must have the .xml in the same folder as the rom, and the .xml must have the exact same name as the rom.

October 23, 2017, 06:06:25 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Small gripe, but the internal checksum is incorrect.  For a project as high-profile as this, you should fix that ;)  File offset 0xFFDC: 00 2F FF D0

Also, I'm looking into merging support into Snes9x mainline, just waiting for confirmation before committing the changes.  For now, here's a test build that should work: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip

Thanks for helping this translation reach more people!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 23, 2017, 08:18:08 am
Nice, looks like this game and translation work will be getting more attention now:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/10/super_famicom_exclusive_far_east_of_eden_zero_translated_into_english (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/10/super_famicom_exclusive_far_east_of_eden_zero_translated_into_english)

It just sucks that they keep  referring to it as "Far East of Eden". Also, no mention of the prominent contributors that made the translation a success.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 23, 2017, 08:53:49 am
I'm enjoying the hell out of this game, I'm on my way in getting the blonde fairy that is in the egg, haven't encountered any issues and the translation seems perfect so far with no typos or anything, you guys did a tremendous job!

I would have loved if the enemy had some sprite animations, they don't move like in the Dragon Quest series but that's not stopping me from enjoying this game, this is a pretty damn good game and I highly recommend it to any RPG lovers.

It's a shame that it wasn't released overseas, this game would have given the other top tier Snes RPG a run for their money.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: pidginduck on October 23, 2017, 09:14:31 am
I'm about ~3 hours into the game and loving it. I registered an account here just to say thanks to everyone that made this translation possible!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: capiqua on October 23, 2017, 09:59:20 am
Is somewhat confusing .txt and I have some doubts if is necessary to use (byuu's snespurify.exe).
How is it used, What's the point?, etc.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 23, 2017, 10:27:35 am
@qwertymodo Is there a way to tie this special emulation mode to something other than the whole ROM SHA-1 hash? Like the internal header for example, or the translated strings from the boot-up check.
That way any alterations to this project wouldn't obsolete the emulator support for this immediately.

Not sure what you mean, nothing is tied to the SHA-1, and further modifications should run just fine. I was just pointing out that the internal header checksum was incorrect, resulting in the annoying "bad checksum" message on load. It still runs fine, it's just a minor oversight and looks a bit sloppy.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on October 23, 2017, 10:42:46 am
Cant wait to play it on Ps3 or Xbox360.
Btw I created a topic on libretro.
https://forums.libretro.com/t/update-snes9x2010-to-handle-spc7110/12916/2
I hope someone will update the snes core in Retroarch very soon :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: midget35 on October 23, 2017, 11:02:00 am
Massive congratulations to the whole team. Been waiting for this game to be translated since forever. Hard to explain how much this means to me. No exaggeration - been waiting for this day since the late ninetees. Such an achievement!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: alexcom on October 23, 2017, 02:59:15 pm
The guy behind the ports of the retroarch cores on the SNES/NES mini told me he will update the snes ones, to add support for the RTC function of the SPC7110, very soon.
 Make sure to check https://github.com/KMFDManic/NESC-SNESC-Modifications (https://github.com/KMFDManic/NESC-SNESC-Modifications) if you're interested in playing Tengai Makyou Zero on the SNES mini!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: magictrufflez on October 23, 2017, 06:44:43 pm
Sweet. Codes are okay, but I'm glad to know there's a real in-game option for those who want a break from the encounter rate for a bit :)

Just a heads up---the Pleasant Drum's affect only lasts as long as it takes the player to leave the current screen or until the player enters another battle (which will be pretty quick without a number of accessories that also reduce the encounter rate).  From my experience, it takes ~6-8 of the accessories equipped on your heroes + pleasant drum use to avoid most all encounters.

I know I was more than a bit frustrated when I found out they didn't work like repel waters from DQ...
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Melchior on October 23, 2017, 06:47:40 pm
ooh great ENDLESS random battles just what I always wanted lol  :crazy: :crazy: :banghead: :banghead:

or the Sweat water from Lufia 1 lol ;)

ooh well I will HUNT down a code for it them..
but ya gotta have RBs if ya wanna level up..
because I doubt you gonna face the final boss at level 1 lol
:P
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 23, 2017, 07:56:40 pm
I'm about ~3 hours into the game and loving it. I registered an account here just to say thanks to everyone that made this translation possible!

Glad you liked it that much!

Is somewhat confusing .txt and I have some doubts if is necessary to use (byuu's snespurify.exe).
How is it used, What's the point?, etc.

The process is certainly complicated and confusing, compared to ordinary roms.

snespurify.exe is necessary to make sure that bsnes can recognize the rom. Otherwise, it may not appear in the list of roms to load.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 23, 2017, 09:37:00 pm
bsnes v087 isn't recognizing my Xinput gamepad for some reason.  So, until there's a version of Higan that fixes the date bug when reloading the save file, I'll be playing on the Wii.  I have a controller that kind of makes me feel like I'm playing the game on an actual SNES, anyway.

(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/22710502_299320627141274_310181172317519872_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KingMike on October 23, 2017, 09:43:17 pm
byuu has said the date bug is already fixed but won't be public until 106 is released, which might be a few weeks because he's taking a vacation now.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: choinheap on October 23, 2017, 10:12:15 pm
Grats on the translation dudes.

Playing it on higan through a laptop with a SNES mini controller.
(https://i.imgur.com/YsTdK01.png)

Sorry if this has been asked but what exactly does the higan clock bug affect? The clock not updating when you load a proper save?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Jorpho on October 23, 2017, 10:26:33 pm
I have a controller that kind of makes me feel like I'm playing the game on an actual SNES, anyway.
Is that a Gamecube Hori Digital pad?  Those things are crazy expensive.  How did you get your hands on one?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: travel27 on October 23, 2017, 10:32:40 pm
hm.  I have had no issues with any date bug, yet, and I am at Fukufuku Village, at least that is the name the faq gives it.  I am using Bsnes 087 32 bit.

I can not, however, find a way to take screenshots from within the bsnes emulator.  Bsnes does not seem to be as functional as the snes9x or even zsnes.  It does not seem to allow for full screen either, so I just have a screen directly in the center of the screen that takes up half of the lap top screen.

Just the same, everything in the translation is just so perfect, thanks a MILLION!  I can see a lot of effort and love went into this.  I am really enjoying this, Bsnes notwithstanding :).
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 23, 2017, 11:48:07 pm
The date bug is only a problem with the current version of the Higan emulator. The problem doesn't happen in bsnes.

Press F11 in bsnes to toggle full screen mode.

P.S. "Fukufuku Village?" You've been reading the Gamefaqs guide instead of the actual text in the game, because nobody in the patch refers to it by that name. I wouldn't recommend following that guide. It's got a lot of misinformation in it.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 23, 2017, 11:51:20 pm
byuu has said the date bug is already fixed but won't be public until 106 is released, which might be a few weeks because he's taking a vacation now.

Yep, I did read something like that here. That's what I'm waiting for, actually. I'll probably just explore the game on Wii until it comes out. I only have time to really play on weekends, anyway.

Is that a Gamecube Hori Digital pad?  Those things are crazy expensive.  How did you get your hands on one?

Yup, that's the one. I actually have 3 of these (2 black and 1 indigo). I'm using this one because it's the most beat up among the 3. The Start and Select
are also a darker tone of gray (seller might've swapped in ones from the SNES pad). I got them all locally this year from different people, and they only cost me almost $100 collectively if converted from our currency. It was a lucky catch because these are expensive, as you said, but nowhere near the value of the GameCube YPbPr component cables. I'm sort of a GameCube nut. Hehe.

(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/e35/19761658_1981383182101786_4470848173866221568_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Panzer88 on October 24, 2017, 12:29:15 am
So happy to see so many people enjoying Tengai Makyou. Hopefully this will be a thing that continues as it is a much overlooked and neglected series.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 24, 2017, 01:02:35 am
Sorry if this has been asked but what exactly does the higan clock bug affect? The clock not updating when you load a proper save?

The date becomes 00-00-2000 when you load a save. I'm guessing it would only affect in-game events that happen at specific dates of the year.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: patuli on October 24, 2017, 01:42:39 am
Is that a Gamecube Hori Digital pad?  Those things are crazy expensive.  How did you get your hands on one?
better yet, you could use the cheap man alternative and connect a real snes pad to your wii!
with one of the raphnet technologies adapters, I have one for the wii and one for the gamecube.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KainXVIII on October 24, 2017, 04:42:15 am
I am able to run the Japanese ROM in RetroArch using BSnes Balanced core...

No such luck with the patched version...

Anyone getting this to run in RetroArch?
Same thing  :banghead:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on October 24, 2017, 10:50:17 am
better yet, you could use the cheap man alternative and connect a real snes pad to your wii!
with one of the raphnet technologies adapters, I have one for the wii and one for the gamecube.

or use a SNES mini controller, i assume they work but i dont know anyone who has tried it

but those Hori controllers look AWESOME, i need one of them and a Hori N64 pad too (the ones that look like GameCube controllers)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: guneko on October 24, 2017, 03:00:10 pm
With core update

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/922898307357257728
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: bytemedeep on October 24, 2017, 04:08:12 pm
or use a SNES mini controller, i assume they work but i dont know anyone who has tried it

but those Hori controllers look AWESOME, i need one of them and a Hori N64 pad too (the ones that look like GameCube controllers)

Yeah, those will work on the Wii since they have the same connector as other Wiimote peripherals.  Even if the SNES Classic came with two controllers, I hope Nintendo releases the standalone controllers like they did with the NES Classic.

Just checked the price of the Hori digital controllers on eBay and, wow, they jumped up in price way too much from the last time I checked.  That's just...wrong.  I think I've also seen that Hori controller for the N64 once, locally.  I now regret passing up on it (it was quite cheap, too).  What I want now is that Hori controller for the PS1, the one that looks like a Wii classic controller.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: nutsie on October 24, 2017, 04:36:06 pm
First of all I wanna thank Doug (Muito Obrigado), Tom and everyone else involved in this project. I just have one question: I have been using the snes9x build that Doug provided and I cannot seem to fastforward. Is this related to the in-game clock system? As much as I love JRPGs I grew old of the random encounter system and I have been using the fastforward option in emulators in order to leap over that hurdle.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: w1ck3d on October 24, 2017, 06:09:05 pm
or use a SNES mini controller, i assume they work but i dont know anyone who has tried it

They work... or at least sorta work. I haven't really toyed much with mine, but it appears that there's an issue with how responsive they are. I never noticed any issues with the NES Classic controller or Wii Classic controller, so I can only guess that I'm not imagining the issue. But, they do work. Just like the NES Classic controller, it too is detected as a Wii Classic controller by the Wii/Wiimote.

IF I'm not imagining the delay, I can only assume this is why Nintendo made the NES Classic controller with a cord roughly the same length as a Nunchuck, so swapping the cord with the shorter NES Classic or Nunchuck cord might eliminate the issue. But as mentioned, I have not had the time to toy with any of this.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 24, 2017, 11:02:42 pm
First of all I wanna thank Doug (Muito Obrigado), Tom and everyone else involved in this project. I just have one question: I have been using the snes9x build that Doug provided and I cannot seem to fastforward. Is this related to the in-game clock system? As much as I love JRPGs I grew old of the random encounter system and I have been using the fastforward option in emulators in order to leap over that hurdle.

Thanks again.

I'm pretty sure the fast forward is just hard coded logic, probably due to the RTC.  We're looking into removing that check, just gotta test whether or not it causes any issues.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 24, 2017, 11:49:36 pm
First of all I wanna thank Doug (Muito Obrigado), Tom and everyone else involved in this project. I just have one question: I have been using the snes9x build that Doug provided and I cannot seem to fastforward. Is this related to the in-game clock system? As much as I love JRPGs I grew old of the random encounter system and I have been using the fastforward option in emulators in order to leap over that hurdle.

Thanks again.

Fast forwarding works in bsnes without affecting the real time clock, so that can't be the case.

It's a shame that most people can't enjoy JRPGs like they used to. I think it's a part of why they don't make games like this anymore.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Rick74 on October 25, 2017, 12:23:09 am
Same thing  :banghead:

It's now working in RetroArch with the latest Snes9x core
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 25, 2017, 12:44:02 am
Fast forwarding works in bsnes without affecting the real time clock, so that can't be the case.

Sure it can, that's why I said it was hard coded logic, not part of the emulation.  If it doesn't cause any glitches, then we can go ahead and remove that logic.

Edit: Done, knock yourselves out: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip

Edit 2: Just tested, when fast-forwarding, the "game time" counter will advance at the fast-forwarded rate, but the clock remains synced to real-time.  So, for instance, if it's 10:00am and I have played for exactly 1 hour, and I hold the fast-forward key for exactly 1 real-time minute, the clock will report that it is 10:01am, but I have now played for 1:14 (give or take, depending on your system speed).
 I'm not sure if there is anything in the game that can be exploited by doing so, but there you go.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 25, 2017, 02:04:36 am
Yeah, removing that logic's a good move! This ensures that the clock will show the accurate time.

The play-time doesn't affect anything, so there's nothing can be exploited here. Everything is as it should be!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: xZabuzax on October 25, 2017, 03:48:47 am
Sure it can, that's why I said it was hard coded logic, not part of the emulation.  If it doesn't cause any glitches, then we can go ahead and remove that logic.

Edit: Done, knock yourselves out: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip

Edit 2: Just tested, when fast-forwarding, the "game time" counter will advance at the fast-forwarded rate, but the clock remains synced to real-time.  So, for instance, if it's 10:00am and I have played for exactly 1 hour, and I hold the fast-forward key for exactly 1 real-time minute, the clock will report that it is 10:01am, but I have now played for 1:14 (give or take, depending on your system speed).
 I'm not sure if there is anything in the game that can be exploited by doing so, but there you go.

Awesome!, thanks man. I was using Bsnes-plus v073 because fast-forward worked in that emulator but now I'm back to Snes9X again.

I should also say that using the rewind feature from Snes9X and Bsnes-plus doesn't cause any issues either, the real-time clock stays the same.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 25, 2017, 04:33:04 am
Yeah, removing that logic's a good move! This ensures that the clock will show the accurate time.

It already showed the right time, the logic I removed looked like this

Code: [Select]
if (Button.FastForward == pressed)
{
    if (SPC7110RTC)    <<< Remove
        return;        <<< This

    // Other checks

    // Actually do fast-forward
}
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: KainXVIII on October 25, 2017, 05:51:17 am
It's now working in RetroArch with the latest Snes9x core
Good, but i want to play with bsnes core  :)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: nutsie on October 25, 2017, 06:36:28 am
Sure it can, that's why I said it was hard coded logic, not part of the emulation.  If it doesn't cause any glitches, then we can go ahead and remove that logic.

Edit: Done, knock yourselves out: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip

Edit 2: Just tested, when fast-forwarding, the "game time" counter will advance at the fast-forwarded rate, but the clock remains synced to real-time.  So, for instance, if it's 10:00am and I have played for exactly 1 hour, and I hold the fast-forward key for exactly 1 real-time minute, the clock will report that it is 10:01am, but I have now played for 1:14 (give or take, depending on your system speed).
 I'm not sure if there is anything in the game that can be exploited by doing so, but there you go.

Wow, that is perfect and so fast! Thanks a lot, really appreciate it. ;)

The in-game clock system will test my OCD. :laugh:

Fast forwarding works in bsnes without affecting the real time clock, so that can't be the case.

It's a shame that most people can't enjoy JRPGs like they used to. I think it's a part of why they don't make games like this anymore.

To me it is just time consuming. I gotta say that I am not biggest fan of random encounters in JRPGs as the rate of these battles can be extremely obnoxious at times. All I wanna is do explore Jipang. :laugh:

Although I feel like you can still make games like this. Just offer an option to speed up things, like Bravely Default did. I believe that the digital release of FF9 also has some sort of fastforward option.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: dejan07 on October 25, 2017, 06:48:50 am
I contacted Super Derek about the patch. Review, maybe?

(https://s1.postimg.org/6ge25tl6p7/Unbenannt.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ge25tl6p7/)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: darthvaderx on October 25, 2017, 07:20:40 am
Edit: Done, knock yourselves out: https://dl.qwertymodo.com/snes9x.zip

I do not know what you did, but in this last version you posted pretty much all the games that were giving problems in the previous versions are running perfectly, thank you.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: saldite on October 25, 2017, 08:12:35 am
Hey, Tom and co., I'm really enjoying this so far. Thank you for all of your hard work, everyone.

I noticed yesterday's event was International Alliance Day when the International Alliance was formed. Shouldn't that be United Nations, or is this some Japanese Terminology for the event that comes out differently in English? Just asking out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 25, 2017, 09:33:49 am
Yeah, that was just a direct translation of the Japanese for United Nations. I've changed it in the script now - thanks for bringing it up! It'll be updated in the next patch.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: chicco30 on October 25, 2017, 11:19:23 am
It's now working in RetroArch with the latest Snes9x core

PC only :( It is so sad we have a great translation now for a great CONSOLE game and we cant play it on CONSOLES (Ps3 or Xbox360) :(
Tom no offense of course its not your fault (you did awesome job and I thanks for your effort) Im just wandering who can compile an updated Retroarch emu for Ps3 or Xbox360 with the modified SNES9X core.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 25, 2017, 11:34:21 am
(...) Im just wandering who can compile an updated Retroarch emu for Ps3 or Xbox360 with the modified SNES9X core.

...and I add OUYA to the list! SNES9X EX+ for OUYA (Android).
I tried to reach Richard Broglia (the dev) but it seems he is out of scene.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 25, 2017, 12:59:14 pm
...and I add OUYA to the list! SNES9X EX+ for OUYA (Android).
I tried to reach Richard Broglia (the dev) but it seems he is out of scene.

Yeah, last time I checked, I'm pretty sure Retroarch is pretty much the only game in town for SNES emulation with active development on Android.  They should have support added in at least some of their many various Snes9x cores.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cospefogo on October 25, 2017, 01:04:51 pm
(...) I'm pretty sure Retroarch is pretty much the only (...)

Hmmm...
RetroArch.
I do need to check it again.

The only time I tried it on my OUYA I was not able to pair my PS3 Dual Shocks with it, even in the GUI menus. I tried to search for help, but no lucky. So I did stay with the traditional SNEX9X EX+, perfect for everything until TMGZ translation.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: tvtoon on October 25, 2017, 02:00:39 pm
I am at the endgame, only Alabaster whatever and Ninigi missing, and I found a scripting problem: when you exchange dust or gold for cash, in Big Tiger town, the line with the value is trepassing the screen. I can post a screenshot if you need.

Good work, I just disliked the translation of some terms like "sake", while others make no sense to non-japanese, like "Bakaboom".

About the emulator issue, Doug used the version from github repository. I used "lastest" 1.54.1 and got none of the issues described. Whoever need the patch for, I can bring it up. ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: ajfoucault on October 25, 2017, 02:58:30 pm
About the emulator issue, Doug used the version from github repository. I used "lastest" 1.54.1 and got none of the issues described. Whoever need the patch for, I can bring it up. ;)

Were you able to play the game with the regular version of SNES9x 1.54.1? Was the time clock desynchronized when you would boot the game after closing the emulator?
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 25, 2017, 03:03:28 pm
Tvtoon - if you could, please post two screenshots of the line when exchanging dust or gold for ryo. The line that breaks the screen, and the line that appears before the break as well - I probably have to add a line filling tag to the line that appears before the break. Thanks! If possible, could you also e-mail me a save at that point?

I just disliked the translation of some terms like "sake", while others make no sense to non-japanese, like "Bakaboom".

For context (for the others reading this), there is a man named "Bakuzan" who makes explosive pots. In Japanese the character says that his name might as well be "Bakudan," which is the Japanese word for "bomb." So the line called for twisting Bakuzan's name into an explosive reference in English.

I did this by twisting it together with the word "kaboom," so the character says "Bakuzan? More like Bakaboom!" Kaboom is, of course, a sound effect for an explosion. I watched a guy playing through it on Youtube, a guy who doesn't know Japanese, and he reacted well to the joke.

https://youtu.be/ibea_z7kBQI?t=577 (https://youtu.be/ibea_z7kBQI?t=577)

Incidentally, any similarity to the Japanese word "baka" (stupid) is purely coincidental. I doubt many Japanese are familiar with the word "kaboom." I believe that people who don't know any Japanese should be able to get the joke pretty easily.

With that out of the way, there are two reasons why I translated "sake" as "liquor." One: liquor is an acceptable translation of sake... and two: the word "sake" has two possible pronunciations in English, so certain items, like Inochi no Sake, would have otherwise been rendered as "Life Sake," which might be misunderstood by English speakers as sounding like the word "keepsake," or "for the sake of my friends."

Life Liquor, on the other hand, has a nice ring to it, with the alliteration... And it won't ever be misconstrued. Plus, since all of the other town names have English names, it would be weird to have "Sake Village" amongst them. Liquor is an acceptable translation of sake, but I can understand how a purist might prefer it to be left as "sake" anyway. That said, it'll remain as liquor.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: mziab on October 25, 2017, 03:08:55 pm
Congratulations to the team on this epic achievement! As someone who has been waiting for the translation with baited breath since 2001, when I first learned of this title, I'm positively stoked to play this gem in English after all those years!

Really enjoying the translation thus far, although I'm just an hour into the game. Did manage to spot a typo (it should say "newspaper"):
(http://wstaw.org/m/2017/10/25/Tengai_Makyou_Zero_English-171025-202907.png)

If I notice anything else that no one else has, I'll be sure to report it here.

I have one minor grammatical quibble. The item obtained message after battles says "Picked up the kusadango", while the chest messages use the indefinite article. The latter is more grammatically correct. The definite article would work if there were a previous message to introduce the item. You'd probably need to tweak the code a bit to display "a", "an" or no article depending on the item, so feel free to ignore it, just putting it out there.

Incidentally, is there a way to reset the internal clock if you need to? I wonder how the game will handle DST. Not that it will impact the game much, I'm sure.

About the "Bakaboom" pun, I also read this as "Baka-boom" first, then noticed it was supposed to read "Ba-kaboom". Inserting a hyphen or capital letters would make the joke a little more obvious, but it looks kinda ugly.
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: cccmar on October 25, 2017, 03:18:58 pm
By the way, does this game have multiple endings? Without spoiling too much, there are some rather serious decisions later on you have to take, so I guess the plot can somehow change? May be a good reason to replay it later if that's the case - not to mention all the side events you will miss during your first playthrough!
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: qwertymodo on October 25, 2017, 03:25:06 pm
So I did stay with the traditional SNEX9X EX+, perfect for everything until TMGZ translation.

No MSU-1 support either though...  ;)
Title: Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
Post by: Tom on October 25, 2017, 03:48:31 pm
Thank you so much for the "newpaper" report, mziab! I'm pooling together all of the errors people have found. We'll update the patch in the near future. Keep the reports coming, and we can make the definitive patch!

Oh, the way the game handles articles is really touchy, though. There's not much we can do about it the battle vs. chests thing. It's complicated. A lot of work went into getting it to the point where it is now. The word "the" was used there because it had to be. There was no way to adapt the article, like there was with the chests.

Daylight savings time was beyond the scope of the project, but at least the clock is still passing in real time.

Quote
About the "Bakaboom" pun, I also read this as "Baka-boom" first, then noticed it was supposed to read "Ba-kaboom". Inserting a hyphen or capital letters would make the joke a little more obvious, but it looks kinda ugly.

Ultimately, this is just an unfortunate side effect for some people who know too much Japanese. In this case, the less Japanese you know, the more obvious the right reading is... But ultimately, I don't want to add hyphens just to explain why the term isn't Japanese... Because people who know both Japanese and English need only a moment's pause before realizing that it's supposed to be an explosive reference, since "stupid" doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation. People who only know English will immediately see it as "kaboom," and