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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Chaos Rush on July 06, 2016, 08:07:10 pm

Title: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 06, 2016, 08:07:10 pm
Newer iteration of this is here: https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28719.0

June 12th 2019 Note: This project is being restarted. There are several issues with this version due to the decision to use the MMC5 mapper patch. I have since thought things over and decided to redo this translation, and will post a new thread when it’s ready. Here is the original post for archival purposes:

I have decided to take it upon myself to make a new English translation of Final Fantasy III for the NES, in what I hope becomes the definitive version of Final Fantasy III. Now, what is the point of doing this? Well, there was never any official English translation of the original Final Fantasy III for the NES, only its DS remake and subsequent ports were localized. While there are a couple existing fan translations, I have heard of problems with both, with one's script suffering from a severe lack of free space, and another using 1mb ROM space on a mapper that doesn't actually support it.

FFIII Refurbished will feature:
* Usage of Kea's MMC5 mapper patch (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2690/), which gives me 1 whole megabyte of total space to work with (meaning an extra 512kb that weren't there originally, which is more than enough for English text)

* A new English script based heavily off of the DS translation. How I will approach this is that I will compare the scripts between the original Japanese Famicom version and the official DS remake. The text from the DS version will be used ONLY IF THE LINE WAS FROM THE ORIGINAL FAMICOM VERSION, and if not, then the lines will be retranslated myself. However, in instances where I use the DS remake's line, if the line features censorship (such as small references to religion that were removed from the DS localization), then I will uncensor those lines. Ultimately, the new script will be an accurate translation of the original Final Fantasy III for the Famicom/NES, and since I'm using Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, I won't have to worry about free space at all, so I can make the text as wordy and meaningful as possible.

* Likewise, all character names, item names, enemy names, terminology, etc., will be as they are in the DS remake. So you won't see stuff like "Fire1", "Fire2" or "Fire3", instead it will be, "Fire", "Fira, "Firaga", etc.

* 10-character item names. Item names will be as close to the DS remake as possible.

* 12-character job titles. Job titles will be named exactly as they are in the DS remake, except for the "Magic Knight" job because the DS remake changed it to "Dark Knight" while in the original they were called "Magic Knights" (Dark Knights weren't actually introduced in the series until Final Fantasy IV)

* 11-character enemy names. Enemy names will be as close to the DS remake as possible.

* 6-character spell names. Spell names will be as close to the DS remake as possible (squish tiles will be used)

I have also written a new text editing tool in Java that allows me to view the original Japanese script while I work on the new English script, and allows mass recompiling of the text, so I don't have to do any repointing myself. It is called, "Onion Text". I have not yet publicly released Onion Text, and I don't expect I will for a while. The reason why is because as I work on FFIII:R, I will also continue to make small adjustments to Onion Text. When this project nears completion, I will then release Onion Text, with the hope that other people use it to make their own translations of FFIII into other languages.

Screenshots:
(http://imgur.com/2gn0YgM.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Um1cBeR.png) (http://imgur.com/z7YmaVn.png) (http://i.imgur.com/KRN04Mc.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Bv1DaCh.png) (http://i.imgur.com/uBYrH0X.png) (http://i.imgur.com/VpdZbcT.png) (http://imgur.com/m9LMrAI.png) (http://i.imgur.com/7RNzzLG.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Bm2Tv8v.png) (http://i.imgur.com/JAw4vPD.png) (http://i.imgur.com/C45SdXz.png) (http://imgur.com/92fGJbR.png) (http://imgur.com/jlB600D.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/4wshmIL.png)

Overall progress:
* Menu size adjustments: 100% done
* Enemy names: 100% done
* Item names: 100% done
* Dialogue: 100% done

Tools used:
* GoldFinger - hex editor
* FCEUX - debugger & PPU viewer
* ASM6 - ASM compiler
* OnionText - text compiler that I made specifically for this project (coded in Java)

Credits:
* Me - project leader and translation of lines that aren't in the DS remake
* Kea - MMC5 mapper patch
* Square Enix - for making this game and remaking this game and localizing the remake
* whoever made TileMolester (God, that's a horrible name)
* whoever made TileMolester Alternate
* whoever made GoldFinger
* whoever made HxD
* whoever made FCEUX
* whoever made ASM6

The patch can be downloaded here:
[Link removed due to newer project that makes this obsolete]
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Pennywise on July 06, 2016, 08:35:22 pm
I will say that a lot of the older translations leave something to be desired. It's not that the initial translations were bad, it seemed like they were limited by space constraints. It also probably didn't help that the scripts were probably edited by a bunch of juvenile teenagers.

Anyhow, the expanded ROM will definitely help, but I'd probably redo most of the menus/interfaces too. Most NES RPGs need ~12-16 characters for item names so you don't have to resort to abbreviations and awkward squishy tiles. Instead of having 2 items per row, you could do 1 item per row.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 06, 2016, 09:45:22 pm
To say the least, I'm excited. The work looks great so far and I'm sure you'll be able to do it with the added space. Are you also going to add a B Button dash?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 06, 2016, 10:10:48 pm
I will say that a lot of the older translations leave something to be desired. It's not that the initial translations were bad, it seemed like they were limited by space constraints. It also probably didn't help that the scripts were probably edited by a bunch of juvenile teenagers.

Anyhow, the expanded ROM will definitely help, but I'd probably redo most of the menus/interfaces too. Most NES RPGs need ~12-16 characters for item names so you don't have to resort to abbreviations and awkward squishy tiles. Instead of having 2 items per row, you could do 1 item per row.
I've actually already adjusted the sizes of nearly all of the menus, as shown in the screenshots. I did think about having 1-item per row, but then there's also the in-battle item menu, which I'm trying to expand. Currently the in-battle item menu is still restricted to 8-character item names, so I have the in-battle item menu use a separate set of strings and use an ellipsis for longer item names:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZmiQVlP.png)
Not the most attractive solution, but it'll do until I can figure out how to expand that particular menu.

To say the least, I'm excited. The work looks great so far and I'm sure you'll be able to do it with the added space. Are you also going to add a B Button dash?
Good question. I mean, since FF Restored has it, and since FFII Refurbished has it, then it would be a good idea for FFIII Refurbished to have it too. However, FFIII has characters following you at certain points in the game. So at some point I'll definitely look into adding a B-Button dash (I'll just port over SpiderDave's routine that he made me for FFII over to FFIII), hopefully it won't cause any problems with additional characters that are following.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on July 06, 2016, 10:30:49 pm
Nice. Translating from scratch one of the most peculiar Final Fantasy games Square(-Enix) has ever made.

That being said, I hope that someday, someone does a a remake-port of Final Fantasy III to GBA using either the Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls game engine or the Final Fantasy IV Advance game engine (or by GBA homebrew, if possible), and uses this translation.

Good luck with the translation, Chaos Rush-san.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on July 06, 2016, 10:31:44 pm
Wow, this sounds pretty neat. I used to know that the Alex W. Jackson translation was good, until i heard of the ad0220 translation, which was WAY better than the AWJ one.
I wish you good luck with this, hopefully this will be the definitive version of FFIII NES.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on July 06, 2016, 10:37:09 pm
It also probably didn't help that the scripts were probably edited by a bunch of juvenile teenagers.

That actually game up in the FFII Refurbished topic. Apparently, in the Demiforce fan translation of the game, one random villager's dialogue references the ubiquitous "Restore the Power of the ORBS!" message from the first game. Which is funny, but it's not what they were saying in the Japanese version at all. (And apparently that's not the only liberty taken with the original script.)

With a few exceptions, I tend not to like translations that rewrite serious dialogue into unrelated wackiness unless it fits with the tone of the scene or the game in general. The J2e take on FFIV is particularly bad in this regard. Even the lead scriptwriter for the project admits it these days.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 06, 2016, 11:05:32 pm
Nice. Translating from scratch one of the most peculiar Final Fantasy games Square(-Enix) has ever made.

That being said, I hope that someday, someone does a a remake-port of Final Fantasy III to GBA using either the Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls game engine or the Final Fantasy IV Advance game engine (or by GBA homebrew, if possible), and uses this translation.

Good luck with the translation, Chaos Rush-san.
Thank you. Allow me to point out though, that I'm not translating the entire game from scratch, as probably about 75%~80% will be identical to the DS remake. I am however, going to compare every line of text in the game between the Famicom version and the DS remake (since I'm uncensoring the DS remake's text in instances where Square Enix censored it), so while this isn't quite like doing a translation from scratch, I think this is an appropriate project for my current level of Japanese knowledge.

Wow, this sounds pretty neat. I used to know that the Alex W. Jackson translation was good, until i heard of the ad0220 translation, which was WAY better than the AWJ one.
I wish you good luck with this, hopefully this will be the definitive version of FFIII NES.
Thanks! Personally, I'm going to avoid looking at either one of the existing translations because I want this to have a "fresh" feel. I also think it's important to translate the stuff that's not present in the DS remake myself, since I have to make the newly translated stuff fit in tone-wise with the material that I'm using from the DS remake. In addition to that, I feel that doing my own translation helps me improve my Japanese vocabulary. I want to assure everyone that whatever lines I translate will be accurate, because if I encounter a word that is not yet part of my Japanese vocabulary, I analyze and research the crap out of it.

That actually game up in the FFII Refurbished topic. Apparently, in the Demiforce fan translation of the game, one random villager's dialogue references the ubiquitous "Restore the Power of the ORBS!" message from the first game. Which is funny, but it's not what they were saying in the Japanese version at all. (And apparently that's not the only liberty taken with the original script.)

With a few exceptions, I tend not to like translations that rewrite serious dialogue into unrelated wackiness unless it fits with the tone of the scene or the game in general. The J2e take on FFIV is particularly bad in this regard. Even the lead scriptwriter for the project admits it these days.
Yeah the Demiforce FFII translation is pretty bad. For instance, in the Japanese version of FFII, there's an old man in the rebel hideout who says early in the game, "I knew the task would be too tough/heavy for you guys to handle", which the Demiforce translation somehow turned into, "I want to move out of the empire but my luggage is too heavy". Seems they understood one word (heavy/おもい) and then made up an entirely new sentence using that word. (If you wanna see more examples, just use my FFII text editor - CastleFynn - to compare the scripts between FF2R, FF2J, and FF2Demi. The tool is on the RHDN website)

I will say that I will not be inserting any jokes, references, memes, etc.; though I may reword things to make it sound less awkward given the context. For instance, during the opening cave scene in FFIII, one of the Onion Knights says, "おい! けんかしてるひまがあったら でぐちを さがせ!" (English: "Oi! If you've got the time to argue then find the exit!"). I reworded it to, "Hey! There's no time to argue right now! We need to find a way out of here!" because I just thought mentioning whether or not they have the time to argue is just rather weird. In general, when I translate I keep in mind that someday Tomato might look at it and critique it on Legends of Localization.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on July 06, 2016, 11:24:45 pm
Wow, nice way of handling the limited space on the Job Menu.  :thumbsup: Personally I would use the Japanese classname Dragon Knight instead of Dragoon. Dragoons originally referred to soldiers intended to deploy by horse and fight on foot, and the modern usage refers to mounted regiments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon

I hope you don't follow the DS terminology too religiously just for it being official, because there are errors in it as well as some renamings to erase any use of Dungeons & Dragons monster names IIRC.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Sephirous on July 07, 2016, 12:19:58 am
I have a thought/question/idea/suggestion/thing...

I think something cool for this patch could be a Title Screen?
Like the one that was created for Final Fantasy II Nes.

I never understood why the Nes Games aside from II didn't have Title Screens.
Yeah there is the Prologue one, but after you play past the prologue it never comes back again.

Just a thought.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on July 07, 2016, 08:44:47 am
* Usage of Kea's MMC5 mapper patch (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2690/), which gives me 1 whole megabyte of total space to work with (meaning an extra 512kb that weren't there originally, which is more than enough for English text)

So that means, like the ad0220 translation, we won't be able to play it on real hardware =(
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on July 07, 2016, 09:30:58 am
Chaos Rush, I love you.
Refurbished Onion Knights on NES would be the cat's pajamas!
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 07, 2016, 09:46:42 am
Awesome!  I was hoping you'd do this after II!

Wow, nice way of handling the limited space on the Job Menu.  :thumbsup: Personally I would use the Japanese classname Dragon Knight instead of Dragoon. Dragoons originally referred to soldiers intended to deploy by horse and fight on foot, and the modern usage refers to mounted regiments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon

I hope you don't follow the DS terminology too religiously just for it being official, because there are errors in it as well as some renamings to erase any use of Dungeons & Dragons monster names IIRC.
As far as Jobs go I'd rather they be recognizable to most players.  Localization keeps them that way because of "we've always done it like this."  I could make an argument for Devout being Seer, but they're both used equally in the series.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 07, 2016, 11:24:33 am
Wow, nice way of handling the limited space on the Job Menu.  :thumbsup: Personally I would use the Japanese classname Dragon Knight instead of Dragoon. Dragoons originally referred to soldiers intended to deploy by horse and fight on foot, and the modern usage refers to mounted regiments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon

I hope you don't follow the DS terminology too religiously just for it being official, because there are errors in it as well as some renamings to erase any use of Dungeons & Dragons monster names IIRC.
Well, I hope you respect my decision but I am indeed going to follow Square Enix terminology religiously just for the sake of having this fit-in with the official games, in addition to fitting-in with AstralEsper's FFI Restored, my FFII Refurbished, and Rodimus Primal's FFIV Namingway Edition. However, when this project is done I will release my text editing tool that I've prepared for it, and it will be incredibly easy to change the names to whatever you'd like :) I have no problem with people making addendum patches either, if say someone doesn't like the official names, the font, etc.

So that means, like the ad0220 translation, we won't be able to play it on real hardware =(
May I ask why not? Do NES flashcarts not support 1mb ROMs? I thought the reason why the ad0220 translation was unusable because it used a 1mb ROM while running the MMC3 mapper. My project uses Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, and the MMC5 mapper is a legal way to have 1mb PRG on the NES. Either way, this project would be impossible without it, and and extra PRG banks is the only way to give FFIII's script a proper translation.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on July 07, 2016, 11:32:06 am
As far as Jobs go I'd rather they be recognizable to most players.  Localization keeps them that way because of "we've always done it like this."  I could make an argument for Devout being Seer, but they're both used equally in the series.
Sure, you're making a valid point. But as he was aiming for source accuracy when it came to Magic Knight, I didn't think my suggestion was anything out of the ordinary. But as it is, Dragon Knight will not fit within the 12 character limit anyway.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Pennywise on July 07, 2016, 11:41:41 am
To my knowledge, no flash carts or physical boards support 1MB PRG-ROM yet... They only go up to 512kb.

I see that as a good thing though. If people start releasing hacks and translations that use 1MB PRG-ROM for the MMC5, then there will be demand for a 1MB PRG-ROM flash cart.

Another benefit is that no one would be able to easily make a repro of your work.

Anyhow, you're gonna get people whining about how they won't be able to play it on their NES, but just tell them to whine to that Everdrive guy and Powerpak people.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on July 07, 2016, 11:48:38 am
Well, I hope you respect my decision but I am indeed going to follow Square Enix terminology religiously just for the sake of having this fit-in with the official games, in addition to fitting-in with AstralEsper's FFI Restored, my FFII Refurbished, and Rodimus Primal's FFIV Namingway Edition.
Of course I do, I'm absolutely sure your work will be fantastic. The translation work alone is a huge undertaking. I only thought I would let you know just in case, no big deal. Keep up the great work!  :)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 07, 2016, 11:57:27 am
Sure, you're making a valid point. But as he was aiming for source accuracy when it came to Magic Knight, I didn't think my suggestion was anything out of the ordinary. But as it is, Dragon Knight will not fit within the 12 character limit anyway.
That's true, it wasn't out of place or anything.  Magic Knight though I think is one of those things the DS version changed completely, like the Terrain abilities which are completely different.  If I were doing it I'd probably keep with Magic Knight either way, as it's a Job specific to the NES version.

Speaking of which... Chaos Rush, how are you going to handle Terrain?  The DS ones I don't think are going to match up, but I'm pretty sure they're referenced in FFV and/or FFT at least.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 07, 2016, 12:00:30 pm
Sure, you're making a valid point. But as he was aiming for source accuracy when it came to Magic Knight, I didn't think my suggestion was anything out of the ordinary. But as it is, Dragon Knight will not fit within the 12 character limit anyway.
Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page (http://iphoneac.com/FF34.html#dark), while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 07, 2016, 12:04:16 pm
Oh, I see!  So it was another case of localization being weird.  Though given the DS game's use of Magic Knight being almost the exact same as FFIV's Dark Knight, I can see the logic behind that change.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 07, 2016, 12:08:50 pm
Speaking of which... Chaos Rush, how are you going to handle Terrain?  The DS ones I don't think are going to match up, but I'm pretty sure they're referenced in FFV and/or FFT at least.
Well luckily they don't match up, their names were changed even in the Japanese version of the DS remake, so I'm free to translate the omitted ones from scratch. See this page: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_III/Translations#Abilities

EDIT: Just like I did in the FFII thread, I'll occasionally post screenshots of what I've worked on that day while providing explanations for translation choices that I made. With that said, here is some stuff I worked on today (click to enlarge):
(http://i.imgur.com/HAuJe6Q.png)
1, 2, & 3: this is text that isn't present in the DS remake at all, so I had to translate from scratch. Typically when I do this I'll first translate literally and make sure the meaning is correct, then I'll think of ways I can rephrase it to make it sound more natural.
4. This is an instance where I had to translate myself but I borrow some wording from the DS remake.
5, 7, & 10: So in the Japanese script, the game provides a small description of who you're speaking to, but it does it in a single line, which would be impossible in English unless if I wanted to omit some information. Because I don't want any information to be lost, I decided I'll present it with the spacing as shown in the screenshots in order to distinguish it from normal dialogue while still retaining all of the information that is provided in the Japanese version. (In the DS remake, it just provides their name and nothing else)
11: Even though Topapa is not the kids father, I am using that word in the same way that someone would call a Priest within a church.
13: Yes I'm aware of this spacing issue, it should be a simple fix. I'm going to write an ASM routine that checks if the last letter in each of the protagonists names are a space, and if so then replace it with a termination byte. Continue on with the next letter, and so on.
14-16: This is an instance where I was able to use part of the DS remake's text, but omitted some extra stuff to make the content match the original Famicom version's script. However, the last part "seal away the darkness" was for some reason omitted from the DS remake, but present in the Japanese Famicom script, so I added it back in.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Leviathan Mist on July 08, 2016, 05:49:04 am
Just wanted to say that I'm just as interested in this project as I was for your FF2 project. The thing I like most is that you included the job levels/exp in the job selection menu - that will make keeping track of job levels much less of a chore.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Da_GPer on July 08, 2016, 07:45:43 pm
From what I remember, I could be wrong though, the original NES version had it that all 4 player characters were male. The DS and PSP versions had a female player character. Are you going to edit one of the player character's sprites to look more feminine, to make the character fit in the part visually?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 08, 2016, 08:29:22 pm
From what I remember, I could be wrong though, the original NES version had it that all 4 player characters were male. The DS and PSP versions had a female player character. Are you going to edit one of the player character's sprites to look more feminine, to make the character fit in the part visually?

I think he's just going for a translation, however that would be amazing if that could be pulled off.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 08, 2016, 09:02:38 pm
From what I remember, I could be wrong though, the original NES version had it that all 4 player characters were male. The DS and PSP versions had a female player character. Are you going to edit one of the player character's sprites to look more feminine, to make the character fit in the part visually?
I'm leaving the graphics as they are but I'm making the script gender-neutral whenever anyone refers to the four protagonists. I believe the original Japanese script was gender-neutral as well, but it's kind of hard to tell because the word they used to describe them (少年) can equally mean young boy or young child.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on July 08, 2016, 10:23:49 pm
From what I remember, I could be wrong though, the original NES version had it that all 4 player characters were male. The DS and PSP versions had a female player character. Are you going to edit one of the player character's sprites to look more feminine, to make the character fit in the part visually?

That was the same for FF1.
Although people argued the White Mage/Wizard was a female (and if I remember, at least the PS1 version had female FF character names as the random presets for the White Mage).
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2016, 01:14:04 am
Today's update:

All dialogue from Ur has been translated. I'd also like to point out this guy:
(http://i.imgur.com/yxBxRtC.png) (http://i.imgur.com/gXOIdu8.png)
In the DS version, this guy's dialogue has been censored - he says something like, "I like it here, I think I'll stay..." (paraphrasing, too lazy to turn on my 3DS right now). In the original Famicom version (and I'm assuming the Japanese DS version as well, but I can't check), he points out that because he can't get back to Canaan, he just stays there and drinks. It's a minor alcohol reference and it's not even that important but I'm just using this as an example of how thoroughly I'm going to be comparing the Famicom and DS text.

Another thing, in the Magic menu, I've decided to remove the magic level indicator in order to make room for longer spell names. I figured the magic level indicator is not important since you can already deduce that from having eight separate MP amounts, and it really doesn't have any bearing on the gameplay anyway since the eight separate MP amounts alone would indicate that, and the Magic shops never indicated it to begin with. I've now managed to put all spell names in full with no abbreviations whatsoever (but some do use squish tiles):
(http://i.imgur.com/8At13cw.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Gm1AKe9.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: zfreeman on July 09, 2016, 01:05:01 pm
Bahamur?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on July 09, 2016, 01:52:30 pm
You know...

To this day, between this WIP translation, and the other two fully playable translations (http://www.romhacking.net/?page=translations&genre=&platform=1&status=1&languageid=12&perpage=50&title=final+fantasy+iii&author=&transsearch=Go), I still wonder why Square-Enix (back then, Square Soft.) never remade Final Fantasy III to the Bandai Wonderswan Color, or the Game Boy Advance, and took them SO long to actually remake the game for the Nintendo DS.

Understand?

Is like, by that time, they were never interested in doing anything with Final Fantasy III. They were more interested in doing other FF games, and the spin-offs for FF. But never Final Fantasy III.

Is like it was the black sheep of Square-Enix's Final Fantasy franchise, until, again, the DS remake.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on July 09, 2016, 02:48:16 pm
To this day, between this WIP translation, and the other two fully playable translations (http://www.romhacking.net/?page=translations&genre=&platform=1&status=1&languageid=12&perpage=50&title=final+fantasy+iii&author=&transsearch=Go), I still wonder why Square-Enix (back then, Square Soft.) never remade Final Fantasy III to the Bandai Wonderswan Color, or the Game Boy Advance, and took them SO long to actually remake the game for the Nintendo DS.

I've heard tell it's because they lost the original source code somehow.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2016, 02:57:26 pm
Bahamur?
That's what the summon is spelled in the DS remake, and the original version calls it バハムル(Bahamuru)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Maeson on July 09, 2016, 02:59:11 pm
They were going to make a port of III on the WS color, but it got cancelled. That's why I think there wasn't a GBA or PS1 port neither. In the case of I, II, and IV they had the WS versions to transfer many things to the GBA instead of starting over, which i suppose made them cheaper and easier to produce.

Without a version of III, maybe they thought it wasn't worth the effort and ignored it, even more when it was a game that outside of Japan didn't have an "official" fanbase because it was never released there.

I guess that after IV Advance, they decided to keep going with V and VI (Which were already ported to the PS1, so, again, maybe it was the easier route).

I would have been very happy to have a FF III GBA port. Fuck, even a PS1 port, if only for how the music could have been (FF I and II got decent tratement if I remember right).

Bad luck for poor FF III. But oh well... I love the Famicom version anyways. The DS remake is decent, but it could have had more improvements here and there, and a better use of the second screen, because most of the time is just... black. Although I liked the zoom-in feature to find secret things.

This translation by the way looks like it has some nice improvements!

The names of the spells are always a headache. I think that's why the Spanish translations for FF games ended using + or ++ for stronger spells.

Like Thunder is Electro, Electro+ and Electro++, or Fire is Piro, Piro+ and Piro++.

EDIT:

The Bahamur thing is just for the Spells themselves. Each spell has a different name, but the creatures you summon still are named like always (Bahamut in this case).

For example to summon Shiva the spell is Icen, and Spark for Ramuh.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: SageOwl on July 09, 2016, 04:37:39 pm
They were going to make a port of III on the WS color, but it got cancelled. That's why I think there wasn't a GBA or PS1 port neither. In the case of I, II, and IV they had the WS versions to transfer many things to the GBA instead of starting over, which i suppose made them cheaper and easier to produce.

Without a version of III, maybe they thought it wasn't worth the effort and ignored it, even more when it was a game that outside of Japan didn't have an "official" fanbase because it was never released there.

I guess that after IV Advance, they decided to keep going with V and VI (Which were already ported to the PS1, so, again, maybe it was the easier route).

I would have been very happy to have a FF III GBA port. Fuck, even a PS1 port, if only for how the music could have been (FF I and II got decent tratement if I remember right).

Bad luck for poor FF III. But oh well... I love the Famicom version anyways. The DS remake is decent, but it could have had more improvements here and there, and a better use of the second screen, because most of the time is just... black. Although I liked the zoom-in feature to find secret things.

It sucks that the highest selling Famicom Final Fantasy didn't get a western release because god knows the RPG community wouldn't have appreciated it over another Dragon Warrior game.

I hate that it, and a lot of other DS games, used the touch screen as the main screen. I don't know why you would want to stare at that when the top screen is looking you in the face. That really turned me off on that version, but fortunately the Android/iOS port was solid. Famicom version will always be superior in my opinion.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Maeson on July 09, 2016, 05:56:53 pm
It sucks that the highest selling Famicom Final Fantasy didn't get a western release because god knows the RPG community wouldn't have appreciated it over another Dragon Warrior game.

I hate that it, and a lot of other DS games, used the touch screen as the main screen. I don't know why you would want to stare at that when the top screen is looking you in the face. That really turned me off on that version, but fortunately the Android/iOS port was solid. Famicom version will always be superior in my opinion.

Yeah, I only wonder what could have happened if FF 2 and 3 got released outside Japan... But even outside old Squaresoft, games like Just Breed, which are mindblowing coming from a system such as the Famicom/Nes are examples of the great things we missed back then.

Dragon Quest pales in comparison to games like those, and I appreciate that franchise, mind you... Heck, even some DQ clones had more features and meat on the gameplay, Juvei Quest was pretty impressive for a DQ clone, IIRC.

About the DS screens I agree, with some games it was annoying. In the case of FF III DS it's even more glaring personally, as you're inside cities, dungeons or fighting most of the game, and you have that superior screen completely unused with nothing to look at. Not even some sort of decoration. Except the dust that it may attract, I guess.

That didn't stop me from playing quite a bit with that version, but it always had that feeling of "unfinished", or rather "wasted potential". In any case, I prefer the Famicom version too.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 09, 2016, 06:43:36 pm
Quote
The Bahamur thing is just for the Spells themselves. Each spell has a different name, but the creatures you summon still are named like always (Bahamut in this case).

For example to summon Shiva the spell is Icen, and Spark for Ramuh.
This is correct, but why it was different takes a little explaining.  Unlike later games, summon spells in FFIII are a little different in naming.  Probably due to actually being three spells (evoker and summoner combined).  The NES fan translations all completely missed this one before, and just went by the established names of summon spells in IV onward figuring they were old summon names or something.  They really don't fit that way however and the DS version always had them correctly translated.

Quote
I guess that after IV Advance, they decided to keep going with V and VI (Which were already ported to the PS1, so, again, maybe it was the easier route).
All three were planned all at once actually, as a "Finest Fantasy for Advance" deal.  I think it was put forth officially after 1 and 2, if not just all at once.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on July 10, 2016, 01:36:52 am
Wasn't FF3DS designed so that it could be played entirely with touch control?

(well, I played a bit of the JP-only 3DS version of FF1, and that does support touch-screen fighting, but it is probably easier to use buttons, as the menus, as I recall, used normal text menus. Not giant buttons like the footage I've seen of smartphone versions.)
Although I must say the kanji font seems kind of small and blurry, compared to the PSP version. But I'll assume fluent speakers would still be able to read it. (though like other versions, it has an option to chose kanji or kana text in the menu)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Maeson on July 10, 2016, 03:57:55 am
This is correct, but why it was different takes a little explaining.  Unlike later games, summon spells in FFIII are a little different in naming.  Probably due to actually being three spells (evoker and summoner combined).  The NES fan translations all completely missed this one before, and just went by the established names of summon spells in IV onward figuring they were old summon names or something.  They really don't fit that way however and the DS version always had them correctly translated.

That makes a lot of sense, as each summon spell has 3 outcomes (2 Effects with an Evoker, and another one for the Summoner). Although I don't find the fan translations wrong per se, as each of the characters you summon appear in all of the animations, so it still kinda works.

All three were planned all at once actually, as a "Finest Fantasy for Advance" deal.  I think it was put forth officially after 1 and 2, if not just all at once.

Oh, I see.

Wasn't FF3DS designed so that it could be played entirely with touch control?

(well, I played a bit of the JP-only 3DS version of FF1, and that does support touch-screen fighting, but it is probably easier to use buttons, as the menus, as I recall, used normal text menus. Not giant buttons like the footage I've seen of smartphone versions.)
Although I must say the kanji font seems kind of small and blurry, compared to the PSP version. But I'll assume fluent speakers would still be able to read it. (though like other versions, it has an option to chose kanji or kana text in the menu)

Yes, the DS version can be played without the use of the touch screen. And I agree that buttons are far easier to use compared to the stylus controls. That way you don't hide the screen with your hand or the stylus too.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on July 10, 2016, 05:17:58 am
I didn't even know there was a 3DS version of Final Fantasy 1 until just now, although I'm guessing it's just a port of the version already available on PSP, iOS, and Steam.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 10, 2016, 08:46:33 am
I didn't even know there was a 3DS version of Final Fantasy 1 until just now, although I'm guessing it's just a port of the version already available on PSP, iOS, and Steam.
I remember hearing it's more-or-less the PSP version with added 3D and touch, yeah.  It's probably the best quality of the ports originating from the PSP one though, since mobile has extras chopped off.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Axiphel on July 10, 2016, 10:13:05 am
I didn't even know there was a 3DS version of Final Fantasy 1 until just now, although I'm guessing it's just a port of the version already available on PSP, iOS, and Steam.

FF1 and 2 are curiously missing from Steam.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on July 10, 2016, 11:21:18 am
I didn't even know there was a 3DS version of Final Fantasy 1 until just now, although I'm guessing it's just a port of the version already available on PSP, iOS, and Steam.
It's an eShop game, similar to the 3D remaster games.
I've seen it adds in the PS1/PSP CG opening video (which has been redone in 3D), and I think from the manual stated (but I'm not certain) that the art gallery (which was PS1-exclusive, I think) was included but locked until finishing the game.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 10, 2016, 11:53:23 am
I think the initial PSP release had the same gallery as PS1 actually.  I need to go look that up to refresh my memory.

EDIT: Yep, it was in there. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy/Version_differences#PlayStation_Portable)

FF1 and 2 are curiously missing from Steam.
Considering their PC port quality these days, is this really a bad thing?  I mean the only mainline "retro" FF ports I'd actually call nice on PC anymore are VII and VIII, and they're different cases because they're more-or-less refurbished versions of the PC ports instead.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on July 10, 2016, 04:06:33 pm
Squeenix really could have done a lot better for the PC ports of the SNES games than literally slap the iOS versions of the games on Steam and go "meh, good enough". Probably the funniest example: In the iOS versions of V and I think VI, there's a button on-screen that you hold down when you want to run. In the Steam versions, they took out the button's functionality, not the button itself. So you have a giant button on the side of the screen whenever you're walking around on the overworld that does absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on July 10, 2016, 05:29:56 pm
^Not to mention the ugly graphics they gave to the Steam ports.

I was expecting the Steam ports of FF V and VI to have the same graphics as the GBA version, or the PSP version. But nope.

Goes to show you that Square-Enix are a bunch of lazy mf'ers.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on July 10, 2016, 07:20:13 pm
There are MODs in the works to fix most of if not all the issues with the iOS ports they moved to Steam.
Pathetic that the fans have to be the ones to finish their work.
And then they are surprised when people complain and take matters into their own hands.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 11, 2016, 01:11:29 am
There wasn't a PSP version, just GBA.  And those were totally screwed anyways between screen size and color.  No easy way around it, they would either need to use the SNES graphics or the mobile ones.  And the mobile ones are fit for screen stretching.

To be fair with the surprise, Square these days seem to be pretty out of touch (for example: "people in America like FFVI? We had no idea!"). Dunno who to blame for that.  They always did have a weird view of us anyway, I mean look at Mystic Quest. :P

The mods aren't a bad effort honestly, from what I've seen most of it's just fixing it like GBA VI (then again, the majority of SNES hacks to this are bug fixes).  VII's always had some rockin' stuff including the retranslation.  I bet if Tactics made it over, first order of business would be the slowdown patch (yes, the same method as PSP more-or-less works on iOS with it's own fix, though Android isn't there with an application method yet.)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Panzer88 on July 11, 2016, 12:18:15 pm
I'm very excited for this. A lot of times older games get looked over if there is a newer version, thank you for doing this.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on July 12, 2016, 06:53:36 am
Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page (http://iphoneac.com/FF34.html#dark), while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".
I see, interesting. Never played the remake so I didn't know about this difference. I think you're doing the right choice by keeping the original class name.

This is correct, but why it was different takes a little explaining.  Unlike later games, summon spells in FFIII are a little different in naming.  Probably due to actually being three spells (evoker and summoner combined).  The NES fan translations all completely missed this one before, and just went by the established names of summon spells in IV onward figuring they were old summon names or something. They really don't fit that way however and the DS version always had them correctly translated.
I have only played the "AWJ-translation" but I'm pretty sure this particular shortcoming was only due to the limited ROM space they had to work with rather than a mistake by those involved. I really liked what they did back then, but the extended ROM space available to Chaos Rush will certainly make things a lot nicer. Thanks for doing this, Chaos! Definitely one of my favorites in the series.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: SC on July 12, 2016, 07:34:20 am
Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page (http://iphoneac.com/FF34.html#dark), while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".

Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on July 12, 2016, 09:19:30 am
Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.
That explains it. That pesky old 魔 seems to be tough to translate well, you always see everything from demon, magic, to evil or dark.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2016, 10:00:54 am
Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.
I figured the 'ま' stemmed from the word 'まほう' (magic/sorcery), since they use the same kanji (also the FF wiki translates it as Magic Swordsman).

But nonetheless, do you think I should stick with Magic Knight or should I rename it something else? It's hard to justify calling them Dark Knights because in the original FFIII they can use White Magic and they lack the Souleater ability. Not to mention that the word they use for Dark Knights in FFIV is あんこくきし, which is different from まけんし/魔剣士 as they're called in all Japanese versions of FFIII (even the remake). I'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: SC on July 12, 2016, 10:13:08 am
I would keep it as Magic Knight in this case (can't be very evil if it uses White Magic, right?). I was trying to point out how the change in the DS remake made sense.
Fun thing about japanese is there's more than one meaning with kanjis, and 魔 is one such kanji which is often used to convey more than one meaning.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 12, 2016, 10:52:25 am
I remember hearing once that it can use dark swords because of magic willpower or whatever that somehow means it uses white magic.  That is not a Dark Knight.

Keep it Magic, unless you can think of something that better suits a job that can use a dark sword but dark themselves.  The DS version had some logic behind the change, NES flatout doesn't.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: SC on July 12, 2016, 10:56:48 am
What's the tile/string limit here for class names, anyway?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2016, 11:15:45 am
What's the tile/string limit here for class names, anyway?
Job titles have been expanded to 12 characters and all menus that display it have been readjusted accordingly. I moved the level indicator in the main menu a row down (a side effect of this is that the main menu now displays the level in green), moved the job title in the stats screen to the next row, and the Job menu is now single-spaced.

(http://i.imgur.com/uBYrH0X.png) (http://i.imgur.com/KRN04Mc.png) (http://i.imgur.com/fxerDpA.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: SC on July 12, 2016, 11:30:12 am
Well, I guess Magic Knight's gonna be the best fit here!

How about changing "Precis.%" into "Accuracy" and deleting the redundant % in "Evasion%"?

Are you doing extensive asm hacking on this game, or just changing some bits here and there?
There's some cosmetic changes that could be possible with some assembly, but I don't know if it's worth the effort, so...
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2016, 12:27:52 pm
Well, I guess Magic Knight's gonna be the best fit here!

How about changing "Precis.%" into "Accuracy" and deleting the redundant % in "Evasion%"?
I will do that! Funny thing is, the DS version doesn't even display Accuracy in the stats screen, so I went with the term that was used in the GBA version of Final Fantasy IV (yes, IV lol); I now realize that that's silly since Square Enix themselves are inconsistent with the terms they use for stats in their official releases (also I just found out, the DS version of FFIV calls it Accuracy, which gets the point across a lot clearer IMO). And the reason why I had the "%" there after Precision and Evasion is just for visual continuity with the SNES version of FFIV, but I can see why some would think it looks weird so I'm probably gonna change it.

Are you doing extensive asm hacking on this game, or just changing some bits here and there?
There's some cosmetic changes that could be possible with some assembly, but I don't know if it's worth the effort, so...
I'm not sure what qualifies as "extensive ASM hacking", but nonetheless there has been some light ASM hacking involved, such as getting the game to load the text banks from the added PRG banks (I had some help from Disch with that (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,22176.0.html)). I've also had to do some light ASM hacking to expand the sizes of the menus, usually it just involves me setting breakpoints on certain offsets while taking a look at FCEUX's PPU viewer and finding the relevant code that controls the menu sizes from there. There's also a bunch of small byte changes I've had to make to expand the windows in the battle menu and the little 'transition' animations they make when disappearing to display another menu.

As for the actual content of the menus themselves, no ASM is required to rearrange stuff because believe it or not, almost every menu in FFIII (also FFII, which I can confirm, and most likely FFI too) is controlled by really large text strings. For instance, this is the actual text string for the Stats menu as it is right now:
Code: [Select]
[14][0C][14][14][FF][10][02]
 [10][01][14][0F]Job Level [10][3D]
 Level [10][3E][14][10][8E]XP [10][32]
[14][08]For Next Lv.:[10][FF]
 HP [10][30][/][10][31]
 MP [10][80][/][10][81][/][10][82][/][10][83][/][10][84][/][10][85][/][10][86][/][10][87]

Strength[.][10][38][14][0D]Attack [10][46]x[.][10][33]
 Agility[.][10][39][14][0D]Precis.%[14][17][C3] [10][42]
Vitality[.][10][3A][14][0D]Defense[10][47]x[.][10][34]
Inte[A6]ect[.][10][3B][14][0D]Evasion%[14][17][C3] [10][41]
    Mind[.][10][3C][14][0D]Mag.Def[14][17][C3][10][36]
[14][0D]Mag.Eva   [.] [10][40]
(http://i.imgur.com/RrlqCOk.png)

It's really easy to alter the actual content of the menus themselves to whatever you want, as they're controlled entirely by text strings:
(http://i.imgur.com/6SJSPIJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Dp8q3sQ.png)

So if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. Though I'm satisfied with the job title character limit as they are now, because the 12-character job titles that I've achieved sounds like a miracle compared to the 7-characters that they were limited to in the vanilla Japanese ROM.

EDIT: Did some tinkering with the Stats menu and ultimately settled on this:
(http://i.imgur.com/i0jr9EO.png)

EDIT: Tonight's update:
(http://i.imgur.com/m1aYL8b.png) (http://i.imgur.com/4E1BOX5.png) (http://i.imgur.com/6tHHltV.png) (http://i.imgur.com/2i0TSaN.png) (http://i.imgur.com/0HRg0pG.png) (http://i.imgur.com/n0egY5V.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vPu0dvN.png) (http://i.imgur.com/G6JNWWc.png)

Also, this is how the magic-menu will look like in-battle:
(http://i.imgur.com/C45SdXz.png)
(and let me tell ya, hacking the battle menus in FFIII is like 1000x easier than FFII because FFII uses that sliding battle menu with complicated coding, while FFIII's battle menus are a lot more simplistic coding-wise)


EDIT:

7/14/2016 progress:
(http://i.imgur.com/DLUZ2r2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/8g1jWyW.png) (http://i.imgur.com/eSUmIBd.png) (http://i.imgur.com/SAO9PAj.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on July 15, 2016, 12:34:07 am
May I ask why not? Do NES flashcarts not support 1mb ROMs? I thought the reason why the ad0220 translation was unusable because it used a 1mb ROM while running the MMC3 mapper. My project uses Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, and the MMC5 mapper is a legal way to have 1mb PRG on the NES.

Flash carts have very poor MMC5 support :) Basically CV3 will mostly run, but nobody has stepped up to finish the mapper yet.

I don't know about a 1mb limit, that may be possible.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on July 15, 2016, 01:09:27 am
From what I read, the major NES flash carts can only support up to 512KB PRG + 512KB CHR (that's all the RAM they physically contain).
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on July 15, 2016, 06:17:25 am
In my opinion, you should seriously consider using compression in order to keep the game MMC3+512kb PRG-ROM, but be able to expand the text as much as you'd like. I wrote a tool for this kind of cases (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/882/), and I'd be gad to help in any way possible since I'm also a FF3 fan.

You don't need to instert anything in the ROM (at first) in order to try to compress the text and see how well different algorithms works.

Quote
My project uses Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, and the MMC5 mapper is a legal way to have 1mb PRG on the NES.
CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bonk on July 15, 2016, 06:50:39 am
I think the initial PSP release had the same gallery as PS1 actually.  I need to go look that up to refresh my memory.

EDIT: Yep, it was in there. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy/Version_differences#PlayStation_Portable)
Considering their PC port quality these days, is this really a bad thing?  I mean the only mainline "retro" FF ports I'd actually call nice on PC anymore are VII and VIII, and they're different cases because they're more-or-less refurbished versions of the PC ports instead.

Really? Any PC version of VII and VIII are pure horse shit without any mods. Even the new IX port is barely more than passable. The audio quality in IX is embarrassingly bad. Far worse than the original game. I don't know how anyone doing professional audio work can so incompetently process and encode audio.

Almost every FF PC Port is crap,the ones that aren't have ass backward porting design choices. (LR,Type-0).
X/X-2 I think are actually the only ones that are anything close to being a very good port.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 15, 2016, 09:14:27 am
In my opinion, you should seriously consider using compression in order to keep the game MMC3+512kb PRG-ROM, but be able to expand the text as much as you'd like. I wrote a tool for this kind of cases (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/882/), and I'd be gad to help in any way possible since I'm also a FF3 fan.

You don't need to instert anything in the ROM (at first) in order to try to compress the text and see how well different algorithms works.
CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
Well that does kinda suck to hear, but at this point I think I'll just focus on finishing the script first and then see if it can somehow be shoved into a 512kb ROM. What I'm curious about though is if CHR-RAM with MMC5 will work on a real NES? Even if that combo was never done by Nintendo.

EDIT: I have an idea, I could make two versions of this, one with 1mb MMC5 and one with an abridged script with MMC3 and compression. The MMC5 version will have the script where many NPC's are word-for-word copied straight from the DS remake (but only if applicable, of course), while the MMC3 version would be approached more like how I did FF2 where I tried to reword things to make it as short as possible but get the same point across. (just so you guys know, my script is stored externally in text files, and my tool inserts them into the ROM, and I can revise the text without having to worry about pointers because my tool does all of that for me. It works exactly like the text editing tool I made for FF2)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on July 15, 2016, 10:58:26 am

CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
I think Flash carts use 512+512 to emulate the PRG+CHR of the largest official game, Metal Slader Glory.
If that's what this question was...?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on July 15, 2016, 02:10:18 pm
Well that does kinda suck to hear, but at this point I think I'll just focus on finishing the script first and then see if it can somehow be shoved into a 512kb ROM.
Indeed, you should work on a script without thinking 1st on how it'll fit.


Quote
What I'm curious about though is if CHR-RAM with MMC5 will work on a real NES? Even if that combo was never done by Nintendo.
Both a 1024k PRG-ROM MMC3 and a cart with MMC5 and CHR-RAM are technically feasible on hardware, but neither has ever been done by Nintendo, and both could be done different ways, yelding to different results.

In MMC3's case, the existing 2nd FF3j trasnslation assumes it works exactly like a 512k MMC3, with one bit added to PRG registers. If Nintendo actually did such a thing, very likely they'd do exactly like they did for SUROM in MMC1, allowing to use the original unodified MMC3, but having two sets "fixed" banks. Doing it with a single fixed bank requires developping a new version of the MMC3 or adding a fully-custom chip to an existing MMC3 (probably doable with a PAL chip or several 74xx logic chips).

In MMC5's case, what is ambigious is how CHR lines would be wired. MMC5 hardware itself is much more complex so I cannot predict exactly how that'll happen, however you could bankswitch it in small 1kb banks, or have it being hardwired to a single 8kb block.

Quote
EDIT: I have an idea, I could make two versions of this, one with 1mb MMC5 and one with an abridged script with MMC3 and compression. The MMC5 version will have the script where many NPC's are word-for-word copied straight from the DS remake (but only if applicable, of course), while the MMC3 version would be approached more like how I did FF2 where I tried to reword things to make it as short as possible but get the same point across
Having 2 versions is indeed a great idea, but I believe both needs to have the same script. For instance, if the game really cannot fit in 512kb, we could choose between oversize MMC3 and MMC5 with CHR-RAM, both unofficial mappers.

However, the script is not the only thing that can be compressed. A quick glance at FF3's ROM reveals tons of uncompressed graphics. If we can somehow get them to be compressed, then we could save a temendous amounts of ROM space.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on July 16, 2016, 06:13:49 pm
I've actually already adjusted the sizes of nearly all of the menus, as shown in the screenshots. I did think about having 1-item per row, but then there's also the in-battle item menu, which I'm trying to expand. Currently the in-battle item menu is still restricted to 8-character item names, so I have the in-battle item menu use a separate set of strings and use an ellipsis for longer item names:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZmiQVlP.png)
Not the most attractive solution, but it'll do until I can figure out how to expand that particular menu.
Good question. I mean, since FF Restored has it, and since FFII Refurbished has it, then it would be a good idea for FFIII Refurbished to have it too. However, FFIII has characters following you at certain points in the game. So at some point I'll definitely look into adding a B-Button dash (I'll just port over SpiderDave's routine that he made me for FFII over to FFIII), hopefully it won't cause any problems with additional characters that are following.

ad0220's patch has a B-button dash, and it does have some quirks, namely that it's difficult to actually use when you have an NPC following you without triggering their dialogue, and if you DO manage to trigger it, they start clipping through walls and stuff trying to follow you.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 18, 2016, 01:27:20 pm
Maybe if like you have it turned off when on the world map, you have it turned off if characters are following you.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on July 18, 2016, 02:52:13 pm
This is really cool :thumbsup:

I have a soft spot for the brevity of the AWJ script, but a definitive translation that renders everything as it was meant to be shown is a great thing to make.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 18, 2016, 11:18:27 pm
I've actually already adjusted the sizes of nearly all of the menus, as shown in the screenshots. I did think about having 1-item per row, but then there's also the in-battle item menu, which I'm trying to expand. Currently the in-battle item menu is still restricted to 8-character item names, so I have the in-battle item menu use a separate set of strings and use an ellipsis for longer item names:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZmiQVlP.png)
Not the most attractive solution, but it'll do until I can figure out how to expand that particular menu.

This is totally fine, so don't feel bad if you can't implement longer item names in the battle menu. But if so, try to use ellipses only when it looks good. G.Needle and HiPotion work better in those cases, for example.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 18, 2016, 11:30:04 pm
Maybe if like you have it turned off when on the world map, you have it turned off if characters are following you.
Yeah that's probably the best solution.

This is really cool :thumbsup:

I have a soft spot for the brevity of the AWJ script, but a definitive translation that renders everything as it was meant to be shown is a great thing to make.
Thanks for making the MMC5 patch! To be honest when I decided to use it I didn't know much about how mappers work, all I knew was that the ad0220 translation used an 'illegal' combination and that supposedly MMC5 is the proper way to do a 1mb expansion. But according to Bregalad, since FFIII uses CHR-RAM, it brings to concern whether or not this is still a valid solution because CHR + MMC5 had never been done officially. Oh well, I'm already about fifth done with the new script, might as well just keep going and figure out what to do with it later. (But personally, I'm content with your mapper patch because it works fine on my Wii using FCEUGX, but once the script is done I'm gonna ask Bregalad about ways it could be compressed to 512kb)

Anyhow, I said otherwise earlier, but I have decided to take a look at the existing translations as well (and both are very good IMO, and are leagues above the FFII Demiforce translation in terms of accuracy). Even though the ad0220 translation is the 'fuller' one, it seems , I find that the AWJ translation is more accurate. Obviously the AWJ translation leaves sentences out for space reasons, but IMO the stuff that made it in is more accurate compared to the equivalent sentence in the ad0220 translation.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to be all obnoxious and "this is what it's MEANT to be like! yarharhar!" with this translation, I'm just doing pretty much the same thing I did with FFII. While one could ask "why don't you just clean up the AWJ or ad0220 translation?", to me that just wouldn't feel 'right' do to because when I did FFII, I analyzed and compared the Famicom and GBA versions side-by-side, and since I want to play an English NES version of FFIII with the modern spell and item names, I figured I should do exactly what I did with FFII and compare the original and remake and borrow the Square Enix-translated material from the remake for the portions of the content that are identical to the original Famicom releases. It's hard to explain exactly what I'm doing to produce this new script, but all that matters is that:

* it'll be accurate to the original (not that the existing translations aren't, because they are, I'm just making a new one with that fits with modern Square Enix continuity)

* anything from the original that remained in the remake untouched will be as it is in the remake's localization

* while I'm nowhere near fluent in Japanese, I can read, write, and speak, and I can do it well enough to discern whether or not "oh they completely changed this in the remake"

* my mother and brother are fluent and I can ask them anything I'm not sure about or can't figure out on my own

* I'm looking at both the AWJ  and ad0220 translations as well, so if you trust those you sure as hell can trust this one

* I've committed to studying Japanese every day, and I've been committed to it since June and I won't stop any time soon

* I hope y'all trust me and what I'm doing, and if you don't, feel free to do a Legends of Localization-style analysis of my FFII translation patch :) (heck, feel free to do it with the screens I've provided so far of FFIII)

I know it's weird to be making a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the original language, but I hope you all understand that I have a rather unique situation regarding Japanese (having been born there and went to pre-school/youchien there, but moved to America at a young age) and that I'm able to do a project like this with the resources I have available to me. (Sorry, I felt the need to explain this because I don't want to give off a false impression that I'm capable of translating an RPG from scratch like Tomato did with Mother 3, because I'm not, and I know some might think it's wrong to make a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the language) When I'm done with this, I definitely want to try my hand at translating myself a game that hasn't been translated yet (preferably a small, simple Famicom game, like a puzzle game or a platformer or something)

Anyhow, here's some progress screenshots:
(http://i.imgur.com/3m4M4k2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/wubzKfL.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dT9vGkY.png) (http://i.imgur.com/tbaSTYu.png) (http://i.imgur.com/KmiG65W.png) (http://i.imgur.com/7XCZO3q.png)

These NPC's in particular have the exact same dialogue that they do in the DS remake:
(http://i.imgur.com/9XLQCkK.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Bqss302.png) (http://i.imgur.com/wzyZvvS.png) (http://i.imgur.com/7kCu8Jp.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Panzer88 on July 19, 2016, 12:28:46 pm
Thanks forthe update, we're looking forward to it. Is there anything like what you've done for ff2 and ff3 for ff1?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: jobless_floppy on July 19, 2016, 04:42:07 pm
I'm definitely looking forward to this, I love the idea  :thumbsup:. Also I believe back in his FF2 thread he mentioned that there were already more than enough hacks attempting to fix/polish up FF1 but FF2 and FF3 hadn't really been touched.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 19, 2016, 05:02:35 pm
Thanks forthe update, we're looking forward to it. Is there anything like what you've done for ff2 and ff3 for ff1?
There's Final Fantasy Restored (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1631/) by AstralEsper, which while billed as a bugfix patch, actually contains a new English script that is influenced heavily by the PS1 and GBA versions. It's great, and is what made me want to do the same for FF2 and now FF3.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 19, 2016, 07:33:29 pm
While I love Restored, there are two things I don't care for. One was the updated font. I remedied that with my Font Options (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2269/) patches. The second is there is something about the bugfixes that screws with the accuracy of attacks. I noticed that I tend to miss a lot more. Still, the Restored content, the better script, and the addition of the title screen make it my personal favorite as a definitive FFI.

I enjoyed your FFII translation and I look forward to finally having a worthy FFIII translation.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on July 20, 2016, 08:45:34 pm
Even though the ad0220 translation is the 'fuller' one, it seems , I find that the AWJ translation is more accurate. Obviously the AWJ translation leaves sentences out for space reasons, but IMO the stuff that made it in is more accurate compared to the equivalent sentence in the ad0220 translation.

I recall having a similar opinion when I A/B'd them. Also, the AWJ text is a bit easier on the eyes, since it doesn't bunch the lines so close together.

But AWJ gets the win for actually running on the EDN8, so... =) I tried asking about the custom MMC3 mapper at the Everdrive forum, but nobody replied...but if it's true that there's no 1mb support, then I guess it's a moot point anyway.

(Sorry, I felt the need to explain this because I don't want to give off a false impression that I'm capable of translating an RPG from scratch like Tomato did with Mother 3, because I'm not, and I know some might think it's wrong to make a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the language)

I wouldn't worry about it. It seems like the Japanese is so difficult to convey in English, and there's so many folklore references, things like that, almost every translation is going to have issues, no matter how fluent you are. And it always seems like when there's an issue, two or three people will pipe up with opinions on how a word or a line should be translated.

Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on July 22, 2016, 06:47:43 pm
Try to see this "retrospective" article (http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-iii-retrospective-hope-you-like-losing-p-1784147478) about Final Fantasy III, even if it's just Kotaku.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 27, 2016, 01:56:41 am
The script is currently about 40-45% done, up to the Gulgan Gulch dialogue. Here's some screens:

(http://imgur.com/vJqP0B4.png) (http://imgur.com/q5jnq0i.png) (http://imgur.com/1zEIiK5.png) (http://imgur.com/pAFzb9G.png) (http://imgur.com/xAQzgv0.png) (http://imgur.com/vriTwvi.png) (http://imgur.com/O2Yy7Or.png) (http://imgur.com/z0Hldb3.png) (http://imgur.com/dPTWrYT.png)

I'm really hoping I'll be able to finish this before summer ends. One reason why progress is moving a lot faster than when I did FF2, is if you all remember around August-September 2015 when I first started working on FF2, I had made a rather shoddy text editing tool for it (called FinalText), as it was my first text editor, and it only let me compile one offset at a time (the only programming language I knew then was VB, which doesn't really count IMO). If you remember back in December, I then made a new text editing tool that supported dynamic text compiling (called CastleFynn), as by then I had started learning Java so I was able to develop a much better tool, and then progress suddenly moved at a much faster pace because of how much more efficient my tool was (no longer had to worry about offsets). The tool I developed for FF3 reuses a lot of code from my FF2 tool, so right off the bat I have dynamic text compiling, which makes me not have to worry about repointing text and stuff, so I guess that would explain why progress on this is moving a lot faster than when I did FF2.

One difference though is that when I was comparing FF2's GBA script, I was able to compare the text just by running FF Dawn of Souls on VBA and using the speed-up function. I can't do that with FF3 since DS emulation is meh on my PC, so instead I have to actually compare using my 3DS and my Final Fantasy III cartridge.

Anyhow, I probably won't post any more screens until I'm finished, considering I'm moving at a pace faster than I thought I would. I hope to finish this by the end of summer, but I can't make any promises. If not by the end of summer, then hopefully by the end of 2016. Thank you all for your support!
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Panzer88 on July 29, 2016, 12:07:34 pm
Thanks for the update. It's a shock how quickly you'reable to go but exciting none the less. Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on July 29, 2016, 06:28:24 pm
Wow, already we're at 40%!

I feel your pain about DS Emus.  I tend to just run DraStic on my tablet instead at this point. :P
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on July 31, 2016, 02:24:13 am
Man, that sounds tedious. I would've got burnt-out so quick translating that way.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 02, 2016, 01:11:16 pm
Some screens of my current progress with the script:

(http://imgur.com/r1MyxpQ.png) (http://imgur.com/F0SRG5Z.png) (http://imgur.com/goUME3v.png) (http://imgur.com/aZ3eLFM.png) (http://imgur.com/n8GJGxa.png) (http://imgur.com/UZ9WQya.png) (http://imgur.com/ViOfV5q.png) (http://imgur.com/b2iZAHL.png) (http://imgur.com/U9M5vLl.png)

Also, a funny thing regarding differences between the Famicom and DS versions that I'd like to point out regarding the scene after the world flood is cleared:
(http://imgur.com/PDhm2Mj.png)
In the DS remake, it shows Luneth waking up, with Arc, Refia, and Ingus standing around him already awake, while in the Famicom version, the dialogue implies they all wake up at the same time, and a little girl walks up to them telling them that they're in Amur and that her grandfather found them in the Temple of Water. In the DS remake, they removed the little girl and broke up her dialogue, tweaked it a bit, and assigned the sentences to Arc, Refia, and Ingus, while Luneth is all "where am I?" and stuff. But they made a rather awkward error in doing so, because Arc actually says, "Gramps found us in the Temple of Water", which makes no sense because you have no idea who the hell Arc is referring to when he says "Gramps". Makes you wonder what Square Enix was thinking when they did that...
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: STARWIN on August 02, 2016, 04:22:06 pm
"Because had no doubt"?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 02, 2016, 06:30:56 pm
"Because had no doubt"?
Just a typo, it's fixed now:
(http://imgur.com/2T69Ryp.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 03, 2016, 01:03:15 am
Some screens of my current progress with the script:

(http://imgur.com/r1MyxpQ.png) (http://imgur.com/F0SRG5Z.png) (http://imgur.com/goUME3v.png) (http://imgur.com/aZ3eLFM.png) (http://imgur.com/n8GJGxa.png) (http://imgur.com/UZ9WQya.png) (http://imgur.com/ViOfV5q.png) (http://imgur.com/b2iZAHL.png) (http://imgur.com/U9M5vLl.png)

Also, a funny thing regarding differences between the Famicom and DS versions that I'd like to point out regarding the scene after the world flood is cleared:
(http://imgur.com/PDhm2Mj.png)
In the DS remake, it shows Luneth waking up, with Arc, Refia, and Ingus standing around him already awake, while in the Famicom version, the dialogue implies they all wake up at the same time, and a little girl walks up to them telling them that they're in Amur and that her grandfather found them in the Temple of Water. In the DS remake, they removed the little girl and broke up her dialogue, tweaked it a bit, and assigned the sentences to Arc, Refia, and Ingus, while Luneth is all "where am I?" and stuff. But they made a rather awkward error in doing so, because Arc actually says, "Gramps found us in the Temple of Water", which makes no sense because you have no idea who the hell Arc is referring to when he says "Gramps". Makes you wonder what Square Enix was thinking when they did that...

It would seem Square Enix does a lot of things recently that make no sense...

Looking great Chaos Rush.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 07, 2016, 02:22:03 pm
Question for you guys.

In the original FFIII, Moogles did not say, "kupo" at the end of their sentences. One of them even makes a cat onomatopoeia ("nyaa!"). In the DS remake and subsequent ports however, they say "kupo" at the end of their sentences, which maintains continuity with later titles in the franchise.

Should I add "kupo!" at the end of their sentences like the remake, which will maintain continuity with later titles in the franchise, or should I leave out "kupo" because it's not there in the original text?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 07, 2016, 02:55:18 pm
Keep it as Kupo!
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Axiphel on August 07, 2016, 03:46:29 pm
Keep it.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 07, 2016, 07:59:29 pm
Two votes is enough for me (three if you count my own opinion), so here's some kupo!
(http://imgur.com/UCDBGex.png) (http://imgur.com/ZrOGgSS.png) (http://imgur.com/QbPsE9L.png) (http://imgur.com/92fGJbR.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on August 07, 2016, 10:41:17 pm
Consider mine a third vote for yes on the Kupo. Hell, when I get around to playing your re-translation of FFII I'm even planning to change the beavers into Moogles for more consistency in the series. (Now if I could only un-SaGa the game's progression system. :P)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on August 07, 2016, 11:06:11 pm
I think in the name of localization it should be Kupo.  I've never been one to mess with heavily established franchise things like mascots, and while one wonders how Moogles would be handled forevermore if III actually came to shore first (Moogles that say meow?) I think we should keep with what's already there for them.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 07, 2016, 11:20:17 pm
Consider mine a third vote for yes on the Kupo. Hell, when I get around to playing your re-translation of FFII I'm even planning to change the beavers into Moogles for more consistency in the series. (Now if I could only un-SaGa the game's progression system. :P)

I hadn't had the oppurtunity to get that far in this retranslation. Is it beavers?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 08, 2016, 02:06:08 pm
This retranslation looks better each day.
I wonder if Maeson will release a version of his hack for this.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on August 08, 2016, 06:31:46 pm
I hadn't had the oppurtunity to get that far in this retranslation. Is it beavers?

I'm just assuming.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 09, 2016, 04:34:30 pm
What do you guys think of this font?
(http://imgur.com/4q6yHt2.png) (http://imgur.com/s2V55FA.png) (http://imgur.com/2bSiAUT.png)
I'm kinda starting to grow sick of the slightly modified FFIV font that I've been using. The FFIV font will still be the main patch of course (unless if you guys like this new font more), but this new thin font I made will just be an extra patch (unless y'all like it).
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on August 09, 2016, 04:55:36 pm
^This font looks much better and comfortable.

I wish this font was on Astral Esper's FF Restored hack, and your FF II Translation hack.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 09, 2016, 06:10:53 pm
I don't care for it, but I say make it an extra patch if you like it.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Sephirous on August 09, 2016, 07:07:22 pm
Yeah, Make a separate patch.  8)

In my opinion nothing replaces the original.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Da_GPer on August 09, 2016, 07:22:23 pm
I agree with having it as a separate patch. Final Fantasy's font is already well known. Changing it will make it stand out and look odd.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on August 10, 2016, 01:52:14 am
Looks a bit weird and cartoonish for a relatively serious Final Fantasy game. Make it a separate patch?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on August 10, 2016, 08:20:52 am
Eeyup. Separate patch it is.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Tom on August 10, 2016, 09:18:11 am
"The adoptive mother of the four orphans, Nina"

Well, it's certainly not wrong, but I prefer: "Nina, the adoptive mother of the four orphans"

Names often get put at the end of the modifier in Japanese, but I feel like putting the name at the front sounds more natural in English.

Maybe it's just me, though.

That's just my suggestion, of course. Take it or leave it.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 10, 2016, 12:53:53 pm
Well, the script is just about finished. Still need to translate the non-textbox text (such as the cast list in the credits), and also go back and correct any typo's as well as make some formatting adjustments due to some formatting decision changes I made midway through. Still haven't gotten around to implementing a B-Button dash lol, but I'll have that in before release.

I hope to release this by the end of this week maybe? I don't know when, but it's almost done, and it'll be out when it's out.

Here's some screens:
(http://imgur.com/C8vL92G.png) (http://imgur.com/BJRSMpy.png) (http://imgur.com/fDl3EHH.png) (http://imgur.com/dj0ooTz.png) (http://imgur.com/d1mPOwD.png)

"The adoptive mother of the four orphans, Nina"

Well, it's certainly not wrong, but I prefer: "Nina, the adoptive mother of the four orphans"

Names often get put at the end of the modifier in Japanese, but I feel like putting the name at the front sounds more natural in English.

Maybe it's just me, though.

That's just my suggestion, of course. Take it or leave it.
I wanted to have the colon appear next to the name just so it's easier to tell who's speaking. That screenshot you're talking about is outdated though, since I've adjusted the formatting of that text since. I'll update the screens when the initial release is ready.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Tom on August 11, 2016, 04:25:58 am
Re: "The adoptive mother of the four orphans, Nina" or "Nina, the adoptive mother of the four orphans"

Quote from: Chaos Rush
I wanted to have the colon appear next to the name just so it's easier to tell who's speaking. That screenshot you're talking about is outdated though, since I've adjusted the formatting of that text since. I'll update the screens when the initial release is ready.

I doubt anyone would think the four orphans were speaking (regardless of the formatting), but it's your call in the end. I just think it seems awkward that way, to have the name after the modifier. It has a very "translated" feel, which jars with how smooth the rest of your work has been.

I'm sorry to hear it won't be changed, but I'll drop the matter here. You're the one putting the work in, so you get to make the final decision.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to your refurbished patch. FF3 is one of my favorites.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: linkncb16 on August 12, 2016, 07:44:38 am
I am so excited to see more work being done on my favorite game! One question though, why have you not changed the name of the Magic Knight to Dark Knight? I am currently a Japanese student and my understanding of the Japanese name Makenshi is that it is translated to either "Evil Swordsman" or "Magic Swordsman". Given that the 3D translation simply calls it Dark Knight, why not change it to that? Just in general I feel it makes a lot more sense given the job's role in this game especially.

August 12, 2016, 07:46:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Interestingly enough, in my hack of the JAP version I actually renamed the class Ankokukishi so that it would truly be what I consider to be the correct name.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on August 12, 2016, 10:34:17 am
It could work either way. To my understanding, the NES version leans closer to the "magic swordsman" interpretation, being pretty much just a fighting class who can use magic, and the DS version leans closer to the "demonic swordsman" interpretation by using "evil"/dark-themed attacks and such, hence why it was localized as Dark Knight. I believe in the DS remake they have the Darkness ability that Cecil can use in FFIV, which may have contributed to the decision.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 12, 2016, 11:02:46 am
I am so excited to see more work being done on my favorite game! One question though, why have you not changed the name of the Magic Knight to Dark Knight? I am currently a Japanese student and my understanding of the Japanese name Makenshi is that it is translated to either "Evil Swordsman" or "Magic Swordsman". Given that the 3D translation simply calls it Dark Knight, why not change it to that? Just in general I feel it makes a lot more sense given the job's role in this game especially.

August 12, 2016, 07:46:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Interestingly enough, in my hack of the JAP version I actually renamed the class Ankokukishi so that it would truly be what I consider to be the correct name.
There was a whole discussion about this topic on the earlier pages. Basically, I am choosing to go with, "Magic Knight", because as you already know, the JP FFIII and JP FFIV (both original and remakes) uses a different term for that particular class. JP FFIII calls it Makenshi/まけんし, while JP FFIV calls it Ankokukishi/あんこくきし. While in the DS remake of FFIII, they changed the class to basically be identical to Dark Knights from FFIV in all but name by making them unable to use any white magic and giving them the souleater ability, I believe that they should be treated as different classes if we're talking about the original Famicom version of FFIII, because in the original FFIII, that class can use low-level white magic and lack the Souleater/Darkness ability, and as mentioned before they're named differently between FFIII and FFIV. When they made FFIV, I don't believe that Cecil was based on the Makenshi class from FFIII, I believe that they made an entirely new class for him (Ankokukishi), which is localized as the Dark Knight. Also, as mentioned by SC on an earlier page, an accurate translation of Makenshi would be "Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior", but for the sake of character limits and localization and other reasons explained above, I am going with Magic Knight.

When this project is released and when I release my text editing tool for it later, I would gladly welcome any addendum patches anyone would feel like making if they disagree with the choices that I have made, as ultimately that would make everyone happy, so then everyone wins.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: linkncb16 on August 12, 2016, 03:48:26 pm
Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page (http://iphoneac.com/FF34.html#dark), while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".

Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I changed the name to あんこくきし in my hack is because I actually removed the ability to use White Magic (never made sense to me anyway) and changed the stats so that it functions more like a traditional Dark Knight. I wish I knew how to edit the formulas of Job abilities and stuff. Maybe I could have given him the Darkness/ Soul Eater ability that way :/
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 13, 2016, 09:25:39 am
Just to toss something else weird into the ring that might not have been considered... could also use "Rune Fencer"?  FF11 uses this translation for its "魔導剣士" class, which is not exactly the same but is close.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on August 13, 2016, 11:16:25 am
Just to toss something else weird into the ring that might not have been considered... could also use "Rune Fencer"?  FF11 uses this translation for its "魔導剣士" class, which is not exactly the same but is close.
FF11 uses a different terminology for a lot of things.   Usually they're not the best ideas in the world to use in much else for the same reason as FFT's PSP/Mobile translation, because they tend to not fit if you don't go with overly stylized dialog.

Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I changed the name to あんこくきし in my hack is because I actually removed the ability to use White Magic (never made sense to me anyway) and changed the stats so that it functions more like a traditional Dark Knight. I wish I knew how to edit the formulas of Job abilities and stuff. Maybe I could have given him the Darkness/ Soul Eater ability that way :/
I remember reading once that the reasoning behind the class was that it was pure enough to use White Magic and had the willpower to resist the influence of dark weapons enough to use them.  Or something like that.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on August 13, 2016, 11:08:42 pm
I remember ages ago translating the class names for Magic Swordsman. In fact before I added the translation to the various wikis they were almost all calling them Dark Knights. So obviously, I'm all for the use of Magic Knight as it is a fine middle ground.

If I were going to do addendum patches, I'd probably make at least 3. One that goes full Dark Knight, similarly to FF3ds, but with black magic in place of the white magic. I'd do another that goes full Paladin with a shiny new sprite and the Dark Swords edited into Holy Swords. And the last patch would go full Mage Knight and use both black and white magic in conjunction with the Dark Swords being turned into Magic Swords and another new sprite based on the FFV Magic Fencer.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on August 13, 2016, 11:52:15 pm
So in the first patch the Magic Knight is turned somewhat closer to DQVI's idea, and the last one is kind of like a buffed Red Mage?

That's a really interesting way of doing it.  Maybe it would even give the class some more use.
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 13, 2016, 11:57:49 pm
For now I'm sticking with Magic Knight as I feel it's the most appropriate given that they can use white magic in this, and if anyone disagrees, I openly encourage making an addendum patch.

With that said, I don't think I can get a release out this weekend. Though the script is finished, I'm still polishing things up and making formatting adjustments. Initially I had formatted the important character dialogue in the same way that I did FF2 where I didn't bother placing a space at the beginning of a line when an important character spoke (I did that to save space), but halfway through doing this I decided I'm going to format the important character dialogue like the way FF4 on SNES does it, meaning that there's a space at the beginning of each line. I decided to do this because it looks more professional (in my opinion, at least), and the only reason why I didn't do it in FF2 was to save space in the ROM, which is unnecessary for FF3 because of the MMC5 ROM expansion.

My goal is to have this released by either Tuesday or Wednesday, but I can't make any promises. Either way, it will be released soon so stay tuned everyone...

(http://imgur.com/m9LMrAI.png)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: linkncb16 on August 14, 2016, 08:26:09 am
I remember ages ago translating the class names for Magic Swordsman. In fact before I added the translation to the various wikis they were almost all calling them Dark Knights. So obviously, I'm all for the use of Magic Knight as it is a fine middle ground.

If I were going to do addendum patches, I'd probably make at least 3. One that goes full Dark Knight, similarly to FF3ds, but with black magic in place of the white magic. I'd do another that goes full Paladin with a shiny new sprite and the Dark Swords edited into Holy Swords. And the last patch would go full Mage Knight and use both black and white magic in conjunction with the Dark Swords being turned into Magic Swords and another new sprite based on the FFV Magic Fencer.
Black magic would be interesting, that would make it more like a Magic Knight I guess. But how would making the class into a Paladin make any sense? O.o There is already a Knight class for that and (in my patch) the Knight class is capable of using level 1-3 White Magic. The last idea for the Magic Knight I really like though. That works even better since dividing enemies aren't affected by magic, so magic blades would make even more sense. I wish I would have done that in my hack... Instead I gave the Scholar class the ability to use level      1-3 Black and White Magic.

August 14, 2016, 08:28:47 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh and a quick question, will the text editing tool be able to edit the Japanese text in game? Also, if I edit the Japanese text, how will it turn out once an English patch is applied?
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on August 14, 2016, 11:49:29 am
If you edit Japanese text and then apply an English patch it's probably going to just out as garbage English text, since NES games don't (most of the time) have room for fonts for both languages.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 17, 2016, 03:03:20 am
Guess what guys, this project is finished! v1.0 has been submitted to RHDN, but while we're waiting for it to be approved, you can get it early here:
https://www.mediafire.com/?mjhum130reilbdh
Please apply the patch to a clean Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

Note that if you find any typo's, PLEASE report them here in this thread. I tried to polish it up as much as I could but I also wanted to get this over with, so if there are any glaring typos or text-wrapping goofs, PLEASE report them in this thread and I'll have it fixed for the v1.1 release (hopefully there won't have to be a v1.1).

Unfortunately I was unable to implement a B-Button dash. Maybe that's something that could be included in a future release, but I had trouble getting it to work without disrupting the surrounding ASM code.

Oh and a quick question, will the text editing tool be able to edit the Japanese text in game? Also, if I edit the Japanese text, how will it turn out once an English patch is applied?
Yes it will, I'm gonna make my tool a bit more user-friendly before releasing it though, as right now it's tailored specifically to me. I'm not really sure how to answer your second question, you're only supposed to apply patches to the specific ROM file as indicated by the patch author, in this case a clean, unmodified, Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

EDIT: And the page is up! http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2701/
(I fudged up adding credits for Kea's MMC5 mapper patch but I've since submitted an edit to the credits list)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: linkncb16 on August 17, 2016, 08:10:37 am
Guess what guys, this project is finished! v1.0 has been submitted to RHDN, but while we're waiting for it to be approved, you can get it early here:
https://www.mediafire.com/?mjhum130reilbdh
Please apply the patch to a clean Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

Note that if you find any typo's, PLEASE report them here in this thread. I tried to polish it up as much as I could but I also wanted to get this over with, so if there are any glaring typos or text-wrapping goofs, PLEASE report them in this thread and I'll have it fixed for the v1.1 release (hopefully there won't have to be a v1.1).

Unfortunately I was unable to implement a B-Button dash. Maybe that's something that could be included in a future release, but I had trouble getting it to work without disrupting the surrounding ASM code.
 Yes it will, I'm gonna make my tool a bit more user-friendly before releasing it though, as right now it's tailored specifically to me. I'm not really sure how to answer your second question, you're only supposed to apply patches to the specific ROM file as indicated by the patch author, in this case a clean, unmodified, Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.
Will do! I'll test it out and let you know what I find : )

August 17, 2016, 08:11:57 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh and I will be eagerly awaiting for your text editing tool as well!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on August 17, 2016, 09:44:24 am
Are you still thinking about adding compression to fit the translation into the original MMC3?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 17, 2016, 09:55:54 am
Are you still thinking about adding compression to fit the translation into the original MMC3?
Even though I expressed interest in doing so a month ago, today I am burned out, and I've sunk way too much time doing this. I wanted to get it done before the summer ends and I'm glad I did, but I think this is probably the last ROM-hacking related thing I'll do (for now), as I want to move on to other stuff.
 
I say this with regret, but I don't think I will look into compression. Soon, I will release my text editing tool, and will provide the script used for this translation with it (as well as the Japanese script). You guys do whatever you want with it. If someone else wants to compress it, I'd be all for it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 17, 2016, 02:05:16 pm
I just quickly did an experiment with FF1's graphics, and it should be able to compress them and save 31% of space using the LZ77 algorithm. Huffman saves only 27%, which is still good but not as good. FF1's graphics use 84kb of the 256kb which makes the rom, after being compressed, they'd use only about 57kb, saving up 26kb for text, more than an entiere bank.

I still didn't manage to do a demo romhack which plays FF1 unaltered but with compressed graphics, but I'll work on it. FF3 uses basiscally FF1's engine with improvements, so it'll work out the same. I suspect FF3's compress ratio will be similar - after compressing the graphics you could also compress text, and then it'll almost surely fir in 512kb.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on August 17, 2016, 06:25:22 pm
Thank you Chaos Rush!
Final Fantasy III needed this love!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on August 17, 2016, 09:07:54 pm
I just quickly did an experiment with FF1's graphics, and it should be able to compress them and save 31% of space using the LZ77 algorithm. Huffman saves only 27%, which is still good but not as good. FF1's graphics use 84kb of the 256kb which makes the rom, after being compressed, they'd use only about 57kb, saving up 26kb for text, more than an entiere bank.

I still didn't manage to do a demo romhack which plays FF1 unaltered but with compressed graphics, but I'll work on it. FF3 uses basiscally FF1's engine with improvements, so it'll work out the same. I suspect FF3's compress ratio will be similar - after compressing the graphics you could also compress text, and then it'll almost surely fir in 512kb.

Don't you need for a fairly large amount of RAM to use LZ encodings? (I know the traditional is a 4KB window but that's a ton of space an NES game is not likely to have). (FF1 used only a small part of the SRAM for actually saving a game but it still used most of the rest of that space for other stuff I think.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 17, 2016, 09:15:11 pm
Sweet Jesus! Glad you've finally got the translation completed. This game need the TLC you've been able to bring to it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: immortal142 on August 17, 2016, 10:07:22 pm
I can't wait to try this out, I wish someone would do this with FF5.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 18, 2016, 02:11:40 am
Don't you need for a fairly large amount of RAM to use LZ encodings? (I know the traditional is a 4KB window but that's a ton of space an NES game is not likely to have). (FF1 used only a small part of the SRAM for actually saving a game but it still used most of the rest of that space for other stuff I think.)
Not if you're compressing graphics, you can read back from VRAM. For any other use, yes, LZ77 is problematic on NES. 4k is an entiere tileset by the way, so the window is probably smaller - I don't remember my program automatically finds the optimal window size using brute force (i.e. compress data with different window sizes and keep the smaller data).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on August 18, 2016, 02:18:45 am
Reading back from VRAM? Could that cause slowdown/noticeable loading time?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 18, 2016, 04:00:54 am
Reading back from VRAM? Could that cause slowdown/noticeable loading time?
Yes, just like any form of compression.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 18, 2016, 04:51:21 pm
As a heads-up: the battle windows have some minor graphical glitches in puNES.  Looks fine in nestopia though.  Not sure what's up with that, I'm not an emulator expert, but.

The new script looks great :)

EDIT - Typo report: in the conversation with Sara in the Djinn cave, the lead party member says "Looks like we have choice..." - it appears that a "no" got dropped.  Also, in her B button chatter, there's a missing 'c' in 'susceptible'.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 18, 2016, 06:55:26 pm
As a heads-up: the battle windows have some minor graphical glitches in puNES.  Looks fine in nestopia though.  Not sure what's up with that, I'm not an emulator expert, but.

The new script looks great :)
Would it be possible to take some screenshots? I'm assuming it has to do with overscan since some emulators have an option to crop the borders of the screen since some NES games dump garbage data there. I expanded the battle windows to those areas as I figured it should be fine as long as no text is displayed there, and FF3 doesn't dump garbage data on the borders. The emulators I use are FCEUX on PC and FCEUGX on Wii and they both look fine.

Quote
EDIT - Typo report: in the conversation with Sara in the Djinn cave, the lead party member says "Looks like we have choice..." - it appears that a "no" got dropped.  Also, in her B button chatter, there's a missing 'c' in 'susceptible'.
Thanks for pointing these out! I will admit that it the script might have been rushed (sorry :P), because I really wanted to get this over with before I go back to school.

Some time next week I'll release v1.1 which will fix these typo's and a couple other typo's I found. If I have time I'll try and get the B-Button dash working too, as well as release my text editor (but keep in mind I have a full-time job during the summer so I can't get it out right away)

EDIT: The issue I'm running into with the B-Button dash is that there isn't enough space in the PRG bank that the default game's walking routine is located in. I've tried doing bank switching but the way the routine is set-up doesn't allow enough bytes to do that without corrupting another routine that's right next to it (luckily I didn't run into that problem when modifying the message loading routine, otherwise this whole project would have been impossible lol). My only option would be to do a jump to another offset within that bank, but there doesn't seem to be any free space available...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: mikeprado30 on August 18, 2016, 08:23:09 pm
Thanks a lot for releasing this renewed script for this great game, Chaos Rush!

Actually I'm into Dragon Warrior saga, but I hope one of my next games will be this one once again!  Brings me great memories from my Hi-School days when I beat this game  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 18, 2016, 09:07:34 pm
Would it be possible to take some screenshots? I'm assuming it has to do with overscan since some emulators have an option to crop the borders of the screen since some NES games dump garbage data there. I expanded the battle windows to those areas as I figured it should be fine as long as no text is displayed there, and FF3 doesn't dump garbage data on the borders. The emulators I use are FCEUX on PC and FCEUGX on Wii and they both look fine.
Thanks for pointing these out! I will admit that it the script might have been rushed (sorry :P), because I really wanted to get this over with before I go back to school.

Some time next week I'll release v1.1 which will fix these typo's and a couple other typo's I found. If I have time I'll try and get the B-Button dash working too, as well as release my text editor (but keep in mind I have a full-time job during the summer so I can't get it out right away)

I think at this point don't rush a new release since folks will he reporting typos. It will give you time to get that B Button dash working anyway. Believe me, I know how busy real life can get.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 18, 2016, 09:16:45 pm
I think at this point don't rush a new release since folks will he reporting typos. It will give you time to get that B Button dash working anyway. Believe me, I know how busy real life can get.
Alrighty then! I just don't like the thought of over a hundred people already (according to the RHDN page, 105 people have downloaded this patch) encountering typo's, but I pretty much had to rush this because it was really important to me to get it out before school starts again, because I have no idea how much I would have been able to work on this once school starts (had I not finished this before summer) because I'm going into university, and there's just gonna be some big changes in my life coming up.

Of course I'll be busy, but it doesn't take much to just open up my text editor, fix some typo's, and release a new patch. Anyhow I'll take your suggestion and wait a little longer for a v1.1 release.

Thank you all for your support!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on August 18, 2016, 10:38:52 pm
Would it be possible to take some screenshots? I'm assuming it has to do with overscan since some emulators have an option to crop the borders of the screen since some NES games dump garbage data there. I expanded the battle windows to those areas as I figured it should be fine as long as no text is displayed there, and FF3 doesn't dump garbage data on the borders. The emulators I use are FCEUX on PC and FCEUGX on Wii and they both look fine.
Don't know if this is the kind of glitchy graphics Reiska encountered?

(http://i.imgur.com/ijJOoSY.png)

This is in Nestopia btw. I only checked the beginning cavern of the game and what is odd about it, is that I think I could only trigger it in the very first battle of the game. It happens when you switch rows, the glitchy message push the character names off screen before they take action. The character names in my example are AAAA... BBB... and so forth, so not part of the glitchy graphics in case you wondered.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 18, 2016, 11:10:50 pm
Don't know if this is the kind of glitchy graphics Reiska encountered?

(http://i.imgur.com/ijJOoSY.png)

This is in Nestopia btw. I only checked the beginning cavern of the game and what is odd about it, is that I think I could only trigger it in the very first battle of the game. It happens when you switch rows, the glitchy message push the character names off screen before they take action. The character names in my example are AAAA... BBB... and so forth, so not part of the glitchy graphics in case you wondered.
Oh, I see what the problem is. All battle messages are located in the same text bank, so for those two particular messages I wasn't sure if they were commands or not, because their indexes are lower than the Attack command, which I assumed would be the first one . They break the five-character command limit, causing glitches:
(http://imgur.com/Ilt5Nvf.png)
I didn't even know you could change rows mid-battle, lol. The commands in Japanese are ぜんしん and こうたい for "Advance" and "Retreat", respectively; and because I wasn't sure how those two message indexes were used, I simply translated those words and hoped it would work in whatever context it appears in.

Turns out the same issue occurs when you move up a row:
(http://imgur.com/eiUenUX.png)

 Now that I know how that those messages are commands, I have already fixed them for v1.1, to "Front" and "Back":
(http://imgur.com/8jJp9o4.png) (http://imgur.com/fTQVzry.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KillerBob on August 18, 2016, 11:32:01 pm
Now that I know how that those messages are commands, I have already fixed them for v1.1, to "Front" and "Back":
Nice, glad I could help. Also, congratulations for finishing this! Looking forward to check it out seriously.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 19, 2016, 12:38:53 am
I've worked out a fully functioning B-Button dash that is properly disabled when somebody is following you. It will be implemented in v1.1, but for those of you that want it early, make these byte changes:

0xFCDEB: 4C A6 FF
0xFFFB6: AD 0B 60 C9 00 D0 08 A9 01 85 34 24 20 50 02 E6 34 60

I was able to do it without resorting to convoluted bank switching shenanigans, as it turns out the MMC5 mapper patch freed up some space in the bank that the walking routine is located in!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: linkncb16 on August 19, 2016, 07:29:29 am
Okay I am super curious, how did you make this possible?! If all you were able to edit was in Hex, how in the world were you able to program something entirely new into the game??
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 19, 2016, 10:39:53 am
Okay I am super curious, how did you make this possible?! If all you were able to edit was in Hex, how in the world were you able to program something entirely new into the game??
There's a FFIII ROM map on DataCrystal, which lists the offset that controls the walking speed in towns and dungeons. Working off of that, I used FCEUX's debugger to place a breakpoint on that offset and looked at the surrounding code, then wrote ASM code using an opode chart to manipulate the RAM values as needed. The game's original code writes 01 to RAM offset 0x34, while my code first checks if someone is following you by checking the byte at RAM offset 0x600B, then checks the byte at 0x20 to see if you're holding the B-Button, and if you are, then write 02 to 0x34. If you aren't holding the B-Button or if someone is following you, then it will write 01 to 0x34.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 19, 2016, 05:47:46 pm
The glitch I saw is different from the one described:

(http://i.imgur.com/RjeHRTU.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: reyvgm on August 19, 2016, 07:32:03 pm
Thanks for this. Looks and feels really well done.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 22, 2016, 07:26:56 am
There's a FFIII ROM map on DataCrystal, which lists the offset that controls the walking speed in towns and dungeons. Working off of that, I used FCEUX's debugger to place a breakpoint on that offset and looked at the surrounding code, then wrote ASM code using an opode chart to manipulate the RAM values as needed. The game's original code writes 01 to RAM offset 0x34, while my code first checks if someone is following you by checking the byte at RAM offset 0x600B, then checks the byte at 0x20 to see if you're holding the B-Button, and if you are, then write 02 to 0x34. If you aren't holding the B-Button or if someone is following you, then it will write 01 to 0x34.


Interesting. So it fixes the talking issue with the function. Nice. Since you've fixed this and hopefully the Change Rows bug, perhaps it would be best to release the 1.1 update.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on August 22, 2016, 05:45:01 pm
Chaos Rush, i have a question for you:
Does the item upgrade trick is still here?, just wondering.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 24, 2016, 12:49:41 am
v1.1 has been submitted to RHDN; will update this post once it has been approved. EDIT: It's up!
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2701/
The changelog is:
Spoiler:
v1.1
- B-Button dash has been added, and it is also disabled
 when a character is following you

- several typos fixed

- some text formatting inconsistencies have been fixed

- in-battle commands for "Advance" and "Retreat" have been altered
 to "Front" and "Back", respectively, because they previously broke
 the five-character command limit, so they've been fixed accordingly.

- when attempting to change jobs, the position of the message that
 pops up has moved up a couple tiles in order to fix a text-related
 glitch that only happens when you have the first six jobs available

Chaos Rush, i have a question for you:
Does the item upgrade trick is still here?, just wondering.
Never heard of it, so it's probably still in.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on August 24, 2016, 02:59:40 am
This page has an in-depth description of the Item Upgrade Glitch (http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/NES/FinalFantasy3.html).

It's possible to trigger it accidentally, and it can do things like remove plot items from your inventory. If you want to fix the glitch, write  B00C at $6BFD7; that will fix the alignment when the game attempts go give you an item you already have 99 of.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 25, 2016, 06:08:32 am
Bug report, though I was unable to get a screenshot quickly enough, it's easy to reproduce:

Curing blindness in battle via using an eye drop produces what appears to be an untranslated message (the message box just says "l").

EDIT: Further update - it appears the status curing messages are broken in general, curing poison produced a box reading "Behemoth" for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 25, 2016, 08:37:37 am
Bug report, though I was unable to get a screenshot quickly enough, it's easy to reproduce:

Curing blindness in battle via using an eye drop produces what appears to be an untranslated message (the message box just says "l").

EDIT: Further update - it appears the status curing messages are broken in general, curing poison produced a box reading "Behemoth" for no apparent reason.
Thanks for informing me of this; I have an idea of what the cause is and will get a fix out as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 25, 2016, 08:46:38 am
Something I've noticed is the message when opening a chest. If the item is a Leather Sheild it just says Leather and not  (Sheild)Leather. Same thing for Potions. The icon is not there. Is this intentional?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 25, 2016, 08:49:56 am
Something I've noticed is the message when opening a chest. If the item is a Leather Sheild it just says Leather and not  (Sheild)Leather. Same thing for Potions. The icon is not there. Is this intentional?
It's like that in the original Japanese version also; the symbols just don't show up in the overworld message box.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 25, 2016, 07:40:06 pm
It's like that in the original Japanese version also; the symbols just don't show up in the overworld message box.

Is it possible to tweak the name pointer in the message to use the icon?  Obviously Japanese didn't need it because the item name was sufficiently descriptive, but given our space limitations in English, might be a worthwhile change if it can be done.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 25, 2016, 10:53:39 pm
Is it possible to tweak the name pointer in the message to use the icon?  Obviously Japanese didn't need it because the item name was sufficiently descriptive, but given our space limitations in English, might be a worthwhile change if it can be done.

That would be helpful if it could be done.

I found a typo as seen below. It's when you talk to the king in Castle Sasune.It should be skeleton key.

 (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III skelteon key.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 25, 2016, 11:02:35 pm
v1.2 has been submitted for approval to RHDN, but if you want it early, get it here: https://www.mediafire.com/?alu8bphus4641yp

Here's the changelog:
Spoiler:
v1.2 - August 25th, 2016

- glitch fixed that involves messages not displaying correctly when
 using a status-healing item in-battle

- healing items now have the bottle icon from FFII Prototype in order
 to maintain consistency with FFII:Refurbished.
 (In the original Japanese versions of both FFII and FFIII, these
 items had no icon)

Screenshot of aforementioned fix:
(http://imgur.com/TwgRtfG.png)

Is it possible to tweak the name pointer in the message to use the icon?  Obviously Japanese didn't need it because the item name was sufficiently descriptive, but given our space limitations in English, might be a worthwhile change if it can be done.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. The item icons aren't even loaded into the RAM when you're in the overworld (except the boomerang, shuriken, and magic icons):
(http://imgur.com/63MvVuV.png)
On the left is what's loaded into the PPU when you're in the overworld, while on the right is what's loaded into the PPU when you're in-battle.

However, as of v1.2, a side-effect of me adding the new Potion icon (FF3 didn't have one originally) to match FFII:R, the Potion icon now shoes up in the overworld because the table ID I chose to represent that tile IS loaded into the RAM when you're in the overworld... but that game treats it as a normal letter because that icon wasn't in the Japanese version.

EDIT:
That would be helpful if it could be done.

I found a typo as seen below. It's when you talk to the king in Castle Sasune.It should be skeleton key.

 (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III skelteon key.png)
Dammit of course another typo is found after I already submitted v1.2.... Looks like this typo fix will have to wait until v1.3, lol. But thanks for playing this!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 25, 2016, 11:37:21 pm
Point of advice when you submit new files since it's what I do. I use my dropbox Public folder when I submit an update. Since it takes a bit for approval, it actually gave me time to fix a small error found before the update was approved since all I had to do was copy over the file in my dropbox. Once approved you can always delete it and upload the update to mediafire if that's where you want it hosted.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on August 26, 2016, 04:46:48 am
I'm going to guess that it wouldn't be as simple as just moving the icons to some of those unused "box" tiles in the font because of the way the game's item sorting routine is coded.  That really only leaves more descriptive names, which will involve ugly abbreviations, or just dealing with having to check the item list to see which of three possible "Leather" you just found, I guess.

Ah well.  You've done well already. :)
Title: Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: darthvaderx on August 26, 2016, 08:46:41 am

That being said, I hope that someday, someone does a a remake-port of Final Fantasy III to GBA using either the Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls game engine or the Final Fantasy IV Advance game engine (or by GBA homebrew, if possible), and uses this translation.


Like this:

(https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/wsff3-official2.jpg) (https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/wsff3-official1.jpg)

(Sad, I would like more the 2D style...)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Digitsie on August 26, 2016, 10:39:05 am
Will you include the fix to the item upgrade glitch for 1.3?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 26, 2016, 11:00:20 am
Will you include the fix to the item upgrade glitch for 1.3?

If he does I'd hope it was an optional patch like the skinny font he has.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 26, 2016, 11:35:09 am
Point of advice when you submit new files since it's what I do. I use my dropbox Public folder when I submit an update. Since it takes a bit for approval, it actually gave me time to fix a small error found before the update was approved since all I had to do was copy over the file in my dropbox. Once approved you can always delete it and upload the update to mediafire if that's where you want it hosted.
Thanks, I'll consider that for the future. Problem with Dropbox is that I had to remove it from my computer because it was causing some problems with the start menu on Windows 10, so hopefully they'll fix that eventually.

I'm going to guess that it wouldn't be as simple as just moving the icons to some of those unused "box" tiles in the font because of the way the game's item sorting routine is coded.  That really only leaves more descriptive names, which will involve ugly abbreviations, or just dealing with having to check the item list to see which of three possible "Leather" you just found, I guess.

Ah well.  You've done well already. :)
I think it would actually work if I did that, since those particular 'box' tiles are just blank unused tiles that happen to be loaded into the RAM while you're in-battle and in the overworld. But I left some blank tiles so that if anyone wants to translate my patch into their language, then they have some extra tiles to work with in case they want more character sets or squish tiles. But we'll see, this is something I'll think about for v1.3.


Will you include the fix to the item upgrade glitch for 1.3?
Ah, I forgot about that, sorry. It will be in v1.3 but as a separate patch.

I think I'll wait a couple weeks for v1.3, hopefully more typo's are reported by then (although I'd be equally glad if there aren't any more, lol).

(http://www.rpgfan.com/news/pictures/1487/ff2-04.jpg)
This screenshot is actually an early version of FFII on the Wonderswan, that's Altair with beta tiles.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 29, 2016, 03:17:46 pm
So now that this is finished, have you considered compressing the script and see if it'd fit a geniune MMC3 ?

I looked into compressing the graphics, too. With FF1 that'd be easy but the problem is that with FF3 uses a very advanced system for its graphics, every metatile is loaded separatedly and every character is loaded separatedly for sprites. In battle, each monster is loaded individually, and the party's sprites are loaded dynamically as action goes on. This makes graphic compression very difficult for the most part. The ultra-crowded fixed PRG bank doesn't help either.

I'd still be curious to see what is possible to do with text compression.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 29, 2016, 07:58:54 pm
So now that this is finished, have you considered compressing the script and see if it'd fit a geniune MMC3 ?

I looked into compressing the graphics, too. With FF1 that'd be easy but the problem is that with FF3 uses a very advanced system for its graphics, every metatile is loaded separatedly and every character is loaded separatedly for sprites. In battle, each monster is loaded individually, and the party's sprites are loaded dynamically as action goes on. This makes graphic compression very difficult for the most part. The ultra-crowded fixed PRG bank doesn't help either.

I'd still be curious to see what is possible to do with text compression.
I just don't have the time; I go back to school in a couple weeks. I'm still working on fine-tuning my text editor for user-friendliness (and I barely have the time for that since my work schedule suddenly got really crazy these past couple weeks), and as I said on the previous page, I'll provide the English and Japanese scripts with the editor, you guys do whatever you want with it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 31, 2016, 03:13:06 pm
Oh sorry, I tought you were done already. Just please don't forget to give me the script once it's finish :) Compressing it is extremely simple but hacking the game to handle a compressed script can effectively be though I guess - especially with a packed fixed PRG-ROM bank.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on September 02, 2016, 12:47:27 am
Something I've noticed and I don't remember if it was in previous translations or the original Japanese ROM is that items do not stay sorted. I moved a Potion to the first slot on the item list, exited the item menu, returned only to have my item list exactly the way it was before! I'm not sure if its a glitch or not.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 03, 2016, 02:49:32 am
Finally got around to polishing up my text editing tool to a somewhat presentable state. My FFIII text editor, OnionText, has been submitted to the RHDN Utilities database, but in case it doesn't get approved for whatever reason, you can download it here: https://www.mediafire.com/?qtbk4p9co4c6940

The translated English script and the original Japanese script of Final Fantasy III is provided with the tool.

Oh sorry, I tought you were done already. Just please don't forget to give me the script once it's finish :) Compressing it is extremely simple but hacking the game to handle a compressed script can effectively be though I guess - especially with a packed fixed PRG-ROM bank.
The script has been done for a while (as well as the patch), I just haven't gotten around to polishing up my tool to a state where other people besides me can make sense of it. I've released the tool now though (link above), and I've also provided both the translated English script and the original Japanese script with it.

Something I've noticed and I don't remember if it was in previous translations or the original Japanese ROM is that items do not stay sorted. I moved a Potion to the first slot on the item list, exited the item menu, returned only to have my item list exactly the way it was before! I'm not sure if its a glitch or not.
May I ask what emulator you are using? I am not encountering that issue on FCEUX 2.2.2. Can you also verify whether that happens for you just by using Kea's MMC5 patch alone?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on September 03, 2016, 05:55:21 am
Finally got around to polishing up my text editing tool to a somewhat presentable state. My FFIII text editor, OnionText, has been submitted to the RHDN Utilities database, but in case it doesn't get approved for whatever reason, you can download it here: https://www.mediafire.com/?qtbk4p9co4c6940

The translated English script and the original Japanese script of Final Fantasy III is provided with the tool.
 The script has been done for a while (as well as the patch), I just haven't gotten around to polishing up my tool to a state where other people besides me can make sense of it. I've released the tool now though (link above), and I've also provided both the translated English script and the original Japanese script with it.
May I ask what emulator you are using? I am not encountering that issue on FCEUX 2.2.2. Can you also verify whether that happens for you just by using Kea's MMC5 patch alone?

From memory, the behavior he's describing happens in all versions of the game (the inventory is re-sorted at the start of every battle IIRC).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on September 04, 2016, 07:36:56 am
Can confirm, that behaviour occurs on every version of the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on September 04, 2016, 02:09:08 pm
Can confirm, that behaviour occurs on every version of the game.

Interesting. Just have to live with it then.

I found a text overflow after beating Medusa.

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Desch Die.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 04, 2016, 09:18:59 pm
Interesting. Just have to live with it then.

I found a text overflow after beating Medusa.

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Desch Die.png)
Thanks for pointing this out, it'll be fixed in v1.3.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on September 08, 2016, 12:07:18 am
Cool. Have you considered using a small amounts of squish tiles for some things? Some things like Sea Elemental, Pheonix Down, and Gysahl Greens, might benefit from it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on September 17, 2016, 10:50:41 am
Are there any more updates for this translation, or is everything (almost?) done here?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 17, 2016, 12:38:45 pm
@Rodimus Primal: I might look into it at some point, though I think it would be a bit unfair if some items got to use squish tiles while other items still have to use abbreviations due to limited tile VRAM space.

Are there any more updates for this translation, or is everything (almost?) done here?
It's been done for a month now, and can be downloaded from RHDN (link to page in my signature). The only updates are to correct any typo's found.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on September 17, 2016, 01:13:20 pm
The only updates are to correct any typo's found.
@Chaos Rush

These. Are there gonna be any more updates like these? You mentioned something of a v1.3 of this translation way above.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 17, 2016, 01:21:34 pm
@Chaos Rush

These. Are there gonna be any more updates like these? You mentioned something of a v1.3 of this translation way above.
Yeah, but I'm gonna wait a bit to see if any more typo's are found since I don't think I should pull out an update just to fix two typo's (that were found since v1.2). Either way I'll push out another update within a month or so regardless of whether or not any more typo's are found.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on September 17, 2016, 03:56:24 pm
Found a few typos and I have some suggestions:

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Desch magicks.png)
This line was a little weird to read grammatically. Perhaps "Turns out I'm not attuned enough with magic to use it. But you...maybe you can."

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III ice ward.png)
This read strangely as well. I'd say it like this "You silly twits. These are the Horns of Ice. They ward against the Fire Crystal's flame!"

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III like em.png)
This I would move the "like" to the last line so that it reads "like 'em!"

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III messing.png)
An overflow typo.

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III spacing.png)
This you can see that there is an extra line break that messes with the spacing. It also causes an extra blank page after this one to occur.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 17, 2016, 08:43:40 pm
@Rodimus Primal: Thanks for these, I think this is enough to warrant an update. I'll try and roll it out as soon as I have time :)

A side note, what Desch is saying about "I'm not attuned to the magicks enough to use it" is exactly what he says in FF3DS. As for the second screenshot I don't remember if it's exactly what the DS version said so I'll take your suggestion for it and add you to the credits (I'll probably change the "magicks" line too since that is weird-sounding, but it IS also what he says in the DS remake).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on September 17, 2016, 08:47:56 pm
I was questioning the "I'm not attuned" one a bit honestly.  At first I was wondering if it was talking about not being attuned to the powers specifically in it or just magic in general.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on September 18, 2016, 08:58:22 am
v1.3 has been submitted to RHDN for approval. It fixes all of the issues pointed out by Rodimus Primal a couple posts above, in addition to a few others typo's. It also provides an extra optional patch that fixes the Item Upgrade bug (thanks to Kea for the fix).

The changelog is as follows:
Spoiler:
- several typos fixed

- several text overflow errors fixed

- optional Item Upgrade Bug fix patch added. This patch is optional
 due to the fact that this is fixing a bug that is present in the
 original Japanese version of the game, and some people might want
 to keep the bug for their own purposes.

Forgot to mention this in the changelog, but yes, I also took Rodimus's text suggestions too, so Desch doesn't say "magicks" anymore.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on September 23, 2016, 10:11:59 am
"Magicks" is correct.

Quote
"You silly twits! These are the Horns of Ice, wards against the Fire Crystal's flame!"

My grammar is a little rusty, but I think all you have to do is change the comma to a semicolon (if you have one in the tileset).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on October 03, 2016, 10:02:46 pm
Haven't had the chance to play recently, but I did so this weekend and ran into some bugs.

First an overflow bug:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III no parent.png)

Next it should be "Your task is..." :
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III task if.png)

Trespassing is misspelled:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III tresspassing.png)

This, while grammatically correct, read a little weird to me. Maybe period after the "No Matter"
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Goldor.png)

The Dual Tomahawk weapon has an interesting name here. If it's spacing, maybe DualTomhwk.
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III DoubleTomo.png)

And last but not least, the Death Claw and Eater monsters seem to have an issue battling them. It crashed the first time I went through and faced the Eater right after the first round. I was able to beat him the second. Then the Death Claw crashes as soon as you hit him. I've reproduced the error on both FCEUX and Nestopia.
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Eater bug.png) (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III Death Claw Bug.png)




October 08, 2016, 12:22:40 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
An update. It would seem the crash occurs when a monster goes to multiply. I don't know if there is something wrong with the code there but I cannot get past the Ancient Catacombs because the monsters there multiply.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: keithisgood on October 09, 2016, 09:45:21 am
I've been playing through as well (all three patches on FCEUX) and I don't think the Multiply monsters crash the game. It just takes a reaaaaly long time for monsters to multiply, during which the game glitches and looks like it's crashing. If you let it go for a few minutes, the monster will correctly multiply/summon another monster.

Definitely a glitch, definitely annoying, but not game breaking.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on October 10, 2016, 12:06:19 am
I've been playing through as well (all three patches on FCEUX) and I don't think the Multiply monsters crash the game. It just takes a reaaaaly long time for monsters to multiply, during which the game glitches and looks like it's crashing. If you let it go for a few minutes, the monster will correctly multiply/summon another monster.

Definitely a glitch, definitely annoying, but not game breaking.

Well I was able to get past the stage by having to hit the fast forward button for those battles. Is this present in other translations?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on October 10, 2016, 10:17:28 am
I wonder where @Chaos Rush is.

He needs to see this. I'm guessing he's busy with college work.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on October 10, 2016, 11:44:54 am
Well I was able to get past the stage by having to hit the fast forward button for those battles. Is this present in other translations?
The ad0220 translation gave me the glitch after i patched it over a MMC5 patched rom.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AWJ on October 10, 2016, 03:59:24 pm
The monster-summoning visual effect uses raster IRQs, and will need to be reprogrammed to work with a different mapper such as MMC5. I remember when developing and testing the translation that that effect didn't display correctly in most 1990s NES emulators (e.g. Nesticle). I think LoopyNES was the first emulator to display it correctly (and also the ending text scroll--1990s emus only displayed half of the text)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on November 26, 2016, 03:01:17 pm
I wonder if there are more bugfixes in this translation.

Hell, I wonder if @Chaos Rush is still here.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 26, 2016, 03:33:33 pm
To my understanding, he said that he was going to be away in school so he wouldn't be able to look at anything until his next break.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Duke2go on November 28, 2016, 04:10:22 am
This is very interesting, especially since I've had a few people ask me to do a "Reconstructed" version of FFII and III FC. I didn't have time to really read through all of the previous pages, but I bookmarked the thread so I can later. Need to convince Disch to do a FFHackster for II and III also. Although iirc he was working on a beefed up version that would be compatible with a number of games, not just Final Fantasy. Definitely interested in seeing more of this one.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Sephirous on November 29, 2016, 01:34:20 am
I have been holding off patching my FFIIIJ until this is completed.

I loved the FFII Refurbished that he did and hope that in time this one gets completed too.

What I would like to see some one do someday also is edit the save slots screen after the prologue and put all 4 slots down at the bottom. Then add a crystal font title at the top. Very much like someone had done for the First Final Fantasy.
Where the title screen flickers as if the font was made out of crystal.

But that sounds like a lot of work.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 29, 2016, 07:59:54 am
Well from what I understand is that the mapper change expanded the ROM size allowed Chaos Rush to have enough space for the script. The problem is the mapper change causes the multiply bug. I read earlier in the thread that there is a possibility of compressing the script to fix that issue. If that could be done, everything could fit without any problems. At least we hope so.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: NeonsSreetlight on January 04, 2017, 06:48:03 pm
I'm so impressed with Final Fantasy II: Refurbished. After playing it, I was hoping there would be a similar project for Final Fantasy III and am excited to find this now! Very disappointed to find I can't play it on console though. If anyone wants to take up condensing it, I think a lot of fans of the series would be grateful to really experience the original as we could have if it were ever given a North American release back then. Either way, thanks for your work on these projects, Chaos Rush!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on January 10, 2017, 10:57:11 am
The multiply bug is my fault; I missed that while trying to root out all the instances of IRQ effects in FF3. If somebody has a save file or savestate near a place with splitting enemies I can look into it in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 10, 2017, 06:13:44 pm
The multiply bug is my fault; I missed that while trying to root out all the instances of IRQ effects in FF3. If somebody has a save file or savestate near a place with splitting enemies I can look into it in the next couple of days.

I'll PM you with one when I get home.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on January 11, 2017, 01:54:28 pm
Hi everyone, I apologize for disappearing for months and not being able to take care of the bug. I've been quite busy with college and I honestly don't know when I'll have time to take care of it, as school is my number one priority. Regardless of that, I will look into it soon, I'm just not sure when. (Also Kea if you find the fix be sure to PM me so I can get it in the next version).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on January 11, 2017, 03:35:36 pm
Welcome back Chaos Rush!
And don't worry, we all know that school keeps us all busy  :P.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Midna on January 11, 2017, 05:06:00 pm
I've been there. When I was in college (the first run anyway), it felt like I didn't have time for anything... and I still did pretty badly, heh.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 19, 2017, 11:35:37 am
I hope Kea can fix the multiply bug. Welcome back Chaos Rush.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: JulianoFdeS on February 06, 2017, 05:16:56 pm
Trying to play on Android Emulator

John Nes: Invisible font, can't read text, no matter if I use custom font or not.
Nesoid: Graphic Glitch. Unplayable.

I played FF2 Refurbished on John Nes.
Could you fix it? Thx for your attention.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on February 18, 2017, 11:08:35 pm
I'm crying uncle on the Divide bug for the moment...just can't figure out how to solve it.  :-\

I'm pretty sure the relevant routine is at $5F8EE / 17:B8DE, which is executed when a monster tries to split, but banging my head against it I haven't gotten any further. Too rusty maybe.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 19, 2017, 12:11:01 pm
Trying to play on Android Emulator

John Nes: Invisible font, can't read text, no matter if I use custom font or not.
Nesoid: Graphic Glitch. Unplayable.

I played FF2 Refurbished on John Nes.
Could you fix it? Thx for your attention.

Have you tried NES.emu? That one works for me.

I'm crying uncle on the Divide bug for the moment...just can't figure out how to solve it.  :-\

I'm pretty sure the relevant routine is at $5F8EE / 17:B8DE, which is executed when a monster tries to split, but banging my head against it I haven't gotten any further. Too rusty maybe.

Dang that stinks. I'm curious about compressing the data in the translation. It would elminate the need to change the mapper that is currently causing the issue.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chronosplit on February 19, 2017, 02:43:37 pm
I can second NES.emu.  It's basically FCEUX on mobile, so there weren't any problems (only thing I did have problems with is Elite, but that tends to be an emulator testing ground in some respects anyway).  Alternatively you could give whatever Retroarch has a shot.  Nestopia works with everything.

John NES is... I don't want to call it old or outdated because it's been maintained pretty routinely, but it's kinda on the subpar side when it comes to a couple of fringe cases.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on February 19, 2017, 04:09:16 pm
I'm actually thinking of making a version that uses oversized MMC3, which is what the ad0220 translation did. It wouldn't work on hardware of course.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 21, 2017, 09:34:10 pm
I'm actually thinking of making a version that uses oversized MMC3, which is what the ad0220 translation did. It wouldn't work on hardware of course.

I guess that would work maybe to work out the kinks but I think that would alienate some people who'd want to play your patch. Your FFII translation is being talked about in many circles, it's only fitting for FFIII.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: madness flame on February 23, 2017, 02:42:39 am
@Chaos Rush I know the patch is not completed yet, but i couldn't wait to thank you for all the work you did, and i also want to thanks @Rodimus Primal for looking at typos and testing the whole thing. I also thanks all others who help in the project. Your FF2 and FF3 projects, and the FF4 & FF6 by Rodimus Primal, are really exciting. I played all PSX FF, and never had the chance to play any FF from FF1 to FF6 before. I want to discover all of them with your bugfixes and uncensored versions, for the very first time that i will play these games, to have the full experience while discovering the beginning of this amazing serie :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on March 04, 2017, 03:25:41 pm
So, any progress on the fix?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: JulianoFdeS on March 06, 2017, 07:54:42 am
Hello guys, my smartphone is so old and small, an Android 4.1.2 Jelly Bean with resolution 320x480. (Samsung Galaxy Fame)

The NES.emu are not working as intended, for some reason, the D-PAD buttons are transformed in the game's screen, and the real game screen became a dark background.

Until Fast Emulator decide to do a NES emulator, I am better with John NES and/or Nesoid, John NES didn't runs Grond's Final Fantasy, Nesoid did, I beat Final Fantasy Restored and Final Fantasy II Refurbished on John NES, is not the best emulator I have already used, but for my low end Android device, is the most complete and runs smooth.

I beat the Final Fantasy III [En by A.W.Jackson+Neill Corlett+SoM2Freak v1.1] but I didn't did everything that I wanted to do, and I am so excited for the closest translation with B-Button Dash! It's my favorite FF from NES.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Panzer88 on March 28, 2017, 02:32:37 pm
I'm actually thinking of making a version that uses oversized MMC3, which is what the ad0220 translation did. It wouldn't work on hardware of course.

Is there any hope for a version that will work on hardware?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chrysologus on May 08, 2017, 08:41:14 am
Anyone tried it on an NES Classic using Hakchi?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Lenophis on May 08, 2017, 10:26:41 am
It probably won't work that well, or at all, since the VC is still trying to work with specific requirements. Suppose one won't know until they try, though!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chrysologus on May 08, 2017, 10:17:58 pm
Well, I tried it now, and it crashes when it's time to enter a name. Perhaps some day he will return and make a hardware-compatible version! Or someone else will.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 09, 2017, 04:09:28 pm
Well, I tried it now, and it crashes when it's time to enter a name. Perhaps some day he will return and make a hardware-compatible version! Or someone else will.


If there was a fix to this and the multiply issue due to the mapper switch, I'd go in and fix the script errors myself. Chaos Rush did a great job with the translation itself but the overall package needs some spit polish!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Lusipurr on May 09, 2017, 08:30:08 pm
I'm hoping that Chaos Rush will have time this summer, as he said he had to set it aside for school. Here's hoping!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AwesomeHairo on May 22, 2017, 02:49:29 pm
Hi. I made an account just so I can reply. Just want to say thank you for all the hard work, Chaos Rush.

Anyway, I initially was going to wonder why this FF III Refurbished patched game doesn't work for both Virtuanes (works on Nesticle) and on the 3DS VC emulator (shacked CFW). Now that I know the issue, I am wondering if anyone is working on changing the mapper for it.

Also, this is completely unrelated, but why doesn't the Rodimus' Namingway Edition patch for Final Fantasy II US work after the Title Screen for Snes9x and for (yet again) the 3DS VC emulator?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 23, 2017, 10:24:31 am
Hi. I made an account just so I can reply. Just want to say thank you for all the hard work, Chaos Rush.

Anyway, I initially was going to wonder why this FF III Refurbished patched game doesn't work for both Virtuanes (works on Nesticle) and on the 3DS VC emulator (shacked CFW). Now that I know the issue, I am wondering if anyone is working on changing the mapper for it.

Also, this is completely unrelated, but why doesn't the Rodimus' Namingway Edition patch for Final Fantasy II US work after the Title Screen for Snes9x and for (yet again) the 3DS VC emulator?

It's possible you didn't patch the correct ROM for Namingway Edition. The hacking community uses Final Fantasy II US 1.1 as a base and that's what Namingway uses. Also you have to make sure that you are using an unheadered ROM.  I use SNES9x regularly and that's what I test on.

As for FFIII it can be a mapper issue. Not all mappers are supported in some emulators and Chaos Rush's patch uses a mapper change.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AwesomeHairo on May 23, 2017, 11:59:51 am
Great, it works. Seems good except for why it's like:

SoldierA:We've arrived at Baron

Probably for memory space reasons?

But now I know why the Final Fantasy III US patch didn't work either. Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on May 23, 2017, 04:09:57 pm
For 3DS VC, it would depend on what Nintendo's emulator supports, and the expanded ROM translation uses a mapper combination that doesn't exist on any actual carts.

I know there was another translation of FF3 which expanded the ROM (with MMC3) to 1MB but I thought VirtuaNES was the only emulator besides Nesticle to support that (as Nesticle didn't emulate the reported size limit of 512KB for real MMC3s).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Flup an Seabhaic on May 24, 2017, 05:32:12 pm
Yeah, I really hope there's a way to fix that issue with multiplying enemies. It's a shame because I'm extremely impressed otherwise with translation. For now, it might be best to just move your save to a clean ROM or an older translation of the ROM for that part of the game, then move it back afterwards.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on May 29, 2017, 04:51:45 pm
Hey everyone, I'm sorry to have left you all hanging. I'm still busy but I should have more time this summer. Here is my plan:

Make a version that keeps the MMC3 mapper, just like the ad0220 patch. Unfortunately I can't fix the multiplying issue because I simply don't have the ASM knowledge to do so. Redoing the whole thing while keeping the original mapper will work on any emulators that the ad0220 patch works on. Honestly it shouldn't take me that long, since I still have all the notes I wrote down for things like menu box sizes and positions and such. It would probably take me less than a week to finish (but don't quote me on that). The text will be exactly the same as the MMC5 version that I have out now.

In order to make a version that works on hardware however, there's just no way around it but it would require significantly condensing the text so that it all fits on a 512kb ROM (or however small vanilla FFIII is, I forgot lol). I'm sorry to say that I have no interest in doing this, but I will gladly provide my FFIII notes and tools for anyone that wishes to abridge the script to fit on a non-expanded ROM so they can replicate things like expanding the menu box sizes and such.

Once this is finally done and out of the way though, I won't be working on any more translations, as I have lost interest in playing text-heavy games in English. The reason why is, as I might have mentioned before, Japanese was technically my first language, but having lived in the US since I was six years old, I forgot a lot of Japanese as I've spent most of my life in an English-speaking environment. One of the reasons why I wanted to provide better English translations for FFII and FFIII is so that I could "get better" at Japanese by analyzing all the text, but over the past year I've recovered a lot of Japanese vocabulary just by regularly talking with exchange students, and I figured by this point I might as well just play games in Japanese (also I want to make up for lost time - my first video game (Pokémon Green for the Game Boy) was in Japanese, but after my family moved to America the rest of the games I played in English, which I regret a lot).

So basically, I'm not dead, and I haven't forgotten about this. I won't leave y'all hanging - but once I'm done with the MMC3 version I probably won't be around much. But I hope people are enjoying my FFII and FFIII patches and can be patient for the MMC3 version that hopefully can be played all the way through without any glitches!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 29, 2017, 05:07:17 pm
Hey everyone, I'm sorry to have left you all hanging. I'm still busy but I should have more time this summer. Here is my plan:

Make a version that keeps the MMC3 mapper, just like the ad0220 patch. Unfortunately I can't fix the multiplying issue because I simply don't have the ASM knowledge to do so. Redoing the whole thing while keeping the original mapper will work on any emulators that the ad0220 patch works on. Honestly it shouldn't take me that long, since I still have all the notes I wrote down for things like menu box sizes and positions and such. It would probably take me less than a week to finish (but don't quote me on that). The text will be exactly the same as the MMC5 version that I have out now.

In order to make a version that works on hardware however, there's just no way around it but it would require significantly condensing the text so that it all fits on a 512kb ROM (or however small vanilla FFIII is, I forgot lol). I'm sorry to say that I have no interest in doing this, but I will gladly provide my FFIII notes and tools for anyone that wishes to abridge the script to fit on a non-expanded ROM so they can replicate things like expanding the menu box sizes and such.

Once this is finally done and out of the way though, I won't be working on any more translations, as I have lost interest in playing text-heavy games in English. The reason why is, as I might have mentioned before, Japanese was technically my first language, but having lived in the US since I was six years old, I forgot a lot of Japanese as I've spent most of my life in an English-speaking environment. One of the reasons why I wanted to provide better English translations for FFII and FFIII is so that I could "get better" at Japanese by analyzing all the text, but over the past year I've recovered a lot of Japanese vocabulary just by regularly talking with exchange students, and I figured by this point I might as well just play games in Japanese (also I want to make up for lost time - my first video game (Pokémon Green for the Game Boy) was in Japanese, but after my family moved to America the rest of the games I played in English, which I regret a lot).

So basically, I'm not dead, and I haven't forgotten about this. I won't leave y'all hanging - but once I'm done with the MMC3 version I probably won't be around much. But I hope people are enjoying my FFII and FFIII patches and can be patient for the MMC3 version that hopefully can be played all the way through without any glitches!

I think the multiply bug comes from the mapper change but I'm not certain. While the script has been for the most part solid, the issues that need to be addressed are the text overflow issues since the last update.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AwesomeHairo on May 31, 2017, 08:52:20 pm
I'm personally thankful for your hardwork. We all lose interest in projects and that's normal.

The only thing I would like to ask of you and Rodimus Prime is for any advice on me retranslating FFV using the GBA script.

Are you planning on upgrading FFV with the latest spell and monster names and making the SNES very similar to the GBA release, Rodimus Prime? Is there any tools I could use to fit in the true magic names?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 31, 2017, 10:17:01 pm
I'm personally thankful for your hardwork. We all lose interest in projects and that's normal.

The only thing I would like to ask of you and Rodimus Prime is for any advice on me retranslating FFV using the GBA script.

Are you planning on upgrading FFV with the latest spell and monster names and making the SNES very similar to the GBA release, Rodimus Prime? Is there any tools I could use to fit in the true magic names?


I've only looked at FFV as far as retranslating that and chose not to. I do know there are tools to view things around the game but I'm not familiar with the assembly of it to even scratch the surface. I would like to see it brought to modern translation standards too, perhaps even using Spooniest's version.

On topic, good luck with school work, Chaos Rush. I was glad to be and still am happy to test anything moving forward to ensure the project is complete.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on June 01, 2017, 12:07:15 am
Honestly it shouldn't take me that long, since I still have all the notes I wrote down for things like menu box sizes and positions and such.

How much work is it to hack things like that?

I was always surprised that GBA friendly hacks of popular NES RPGs never got made...you could just move the windows vertically a little, and get rid of double-spacing, and you could fit everything without having to scale or scroll the screen.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/28lrml0.jpg)

Obviously, the battle backgrounds would be sorely missed, but it's an idea.

Now that I think about it, a lot of games, like the Dragon Warriors, don't use a lot of double-spacing. Hmm...maybe that explains it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: yasu on June 24, 2017, 11:26:01 am
Hey, Chaos Rush.
I solved a multiply bug.
It was because the MMC5 patch did not handle the IRQ well.

Try patch on this link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1)

I am pleased if it will help your project ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 25, 2017, 12:54:20 am
Hey, Chaos Rush.
I solved a multiply bug.
It was because the MMC5 patch did not handle the IRQ well.

Try patch on this link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1)

I am pleased if it will help your project ;)

I'll gladly test this myself when I get a little free time. (A lot of IRL stuff and Youtube channel stuff revolving Transformers takes up a LOT currently.) Care to elaborate where the fix is correcting the error?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: yasu on June 25, 2017, 12:57:12 pm
I'll gladly test this myself when I get a little free time. (A lot of IRL stuff and Youtube channel stuff revolving Transformers takes up a LOT currently.) Care to elaborate where the fix is correcting the error?

In the original ROM (MMC3), in the raster effect of multiply processing, IRQ is generated every time two scanlines increase.
However, with the MMC5 patch, there were two errors in modifying this raster effect.

1. Illegal value is given to $5204, so IRQ is not enabled. It was necessary to give 0x80.

2. the position of the scanline for which IRQ is to be generated next must be stored as "absolute position" at $5203. However, 0x01 was always stored.
(In MMC3, it was good to be 0x01 because "relative position" had to be stored)

//MMC5 Patch

Code: [Select]

($5F8BA)
 17:B8A9:20 79 FB  JSR $FB79 //waitIRQ
 17:B8AC:A9 01     LDA #$01 //SetNextScanline(relative)
 17:B8AE:8D 03 52  STA $5203
 17:B8B1:20 D5 BF  JSR $BFD5 //EnableIRQ

($5F8EE)
 17:B8DE:A9 01     LDA #$01 //SetNextScanline(relative)
 17:B8E0:8D 03 52  STA $5203

EnableIRQ($5FFE5)
 17:BFD5:A9 40     LDA #$40 //Illegal value
 17:BFD7:8D 04 52  STA $5204
 17:BFDA:60        RTS



//Fixed

Code: [Select]

Modify:

($5F8BA)
 17:B8A9:20 DB BF  JSR $BFDB //WaitIRQandInitScanline
 17:B8AC:20 E3 BF  JSR $BFE3 //SetNextScanlineTo$5203
 17:B8AF:EA        NOP
 17:B8B0:EA        NOP
 17:B8B1:20 D5 BF  JSR $BFD5 //EnableIRQ

($5F8EE)
 17:B8DE:20 E3 BF  JSR $BFE3 //SetNextScanlineTo$5203
 17:B8E1:EA        NOP
 17:B8E2:EA        NOP
 
Modify: EnableIRQ($5FFE5)
 17:BFD5:A9 80     LDA #$80
 17:BFD7:8D 04 52  STA $5204
 17:BFDA:60        RTS

Add: WaitIRQandInitScanline($5FFEB)
 17:BFDB:20 79 FB  JSR $FB79 //waitIRQ
 17:BFDE:A9 26     LDA #$26
 17:BFE0:85 7B     STA $007B //InitScanline
 17:BFE2:60        RTS

Add: SetNextScanlineTo$5203($5FFF3)
 17:BFE3:E6 7B     INC $007B
 17:BFE5:E6 7B     INC $007B
 17:BFE7:A5 7B     LDA $007B //NextScanline(Absolute)
 17:BFE9:8D 03 52  STA $5203
 17:BFEC:60        RTS


Is my explanation enough?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: A.D.R.I.A.N on June 25, 2017, 04:25:27 pm
I tested the patch, and it works!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 25, 2017, 07:52:58 pm
Hey, Chaos Rush.
I solved a multiply bug.
It was because the MMC5 patch did not handle the IRQ well.

Try patch on this link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/spywbo4qe8gyygx/FF3MMC5-multiplybugfix.zip?dl=1)

I am pleased if it will help your project ;)
Thank you so much for this!

So I guess this means I'm not going to do an MMC3 w/ illegal expanded banks after all. I'll release an updated patch hopefully within the next week or so. Again, thank you soooooo much! I was gonna redo the entire thing while keeping the original mapper (doing what the ad0220 translation did) but the only reason I was gonna do it was because of the multiply bug with the MMC5 patch.

When I have time I'll apply this patch as well as fix some typo's, and then this will finally be done once and for all :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 27, 2017, 11:02:05 am
Thank you so much for this!

So I guess this means I'm not going to do an MMC3 w/ illegal expanded banks after all. I'll release an updated patch hopefully within the next week or so. Again, thank you soooooo much! I was gonna redo the entire thing while keeping the original mapper (doing what the ad0220 translation did) but the only reason I was gonna do it was because of the multiply bug with the MMC5 patch.

When I have time I'll apply this patch as well as fix some typo's, and then this will finally be done once and for all :)

This is awesome news.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on June 28, 2017, 10:43:34 am
I still hold that compressing script and leave the game on 512k MMC3 is the best option.
I found the mediafire like you gave me months ago, but I don't know how I should format those 10 files and attempt at compressing them with my program. In particular, I'd like to know how those / and those [xx] works exacly, and if there's an implied end marker at the end of the "messages".
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: yasu on June 29, 2017, 06:55:15 am
Thank you so much for this!

So I guess this means I'm not going to do an MMC3 w/ illegal expanded banks after all. I'll release an updated patch hopefully within the next week or so. Again, thank you soooooo much! I was gonna redo the entire thing while keeping the original mapper (doing what the ad0220 translation did) but the only reason I was gonna do it was because of the multiply bug with the MMC5 patch.

When I have time I'll apply this patch as well as fix some typo's, and then this will finally be done once and for all :)

I am glad that it is useful :thumbsup:
Thanks to the project of Chaos Rush and Kea, I was able to learn about MMC5 and IRQ.
Thank you too ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Kea on June 29, 2017, 07:53:02 pm
For my part I wasn't making any progress on the raster IRQ issue, so thank you for fixing that last issue  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: yasu on July 02, 2017, 10:11:32 am
For my part I wasn't making any progress on the raster IRQ issue, so thank you for fixing that last issue  :thumbsup:

I also had a lot of difficulty with this issue :-\
I hope you can use it for your project as well :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 03, 2017, 02:20:03 am
v1.4 has been submitted to RHDN for approval! Here is the changelog:
Quote
v1.4 - July 2nd, 2017

- major bug regarding multiplying enemies fixed (credit to yasu)

- several typos fixed

Major thanks to yasu for fixing the bug regarding multiplying enemies! And thanks also to Rodimus Primal for pointing out typo's that I've also fixed in this release.

July 03, 2017, 02:33:27 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I still hold that compressing script and leave the game on 512k MMC3 is the best option.
I found the mediafire like you gave me months ago, but I don't know how I should format those 10 files and attempt at compressing them with my program. In particular, I'd like to know how those / and those [xx] works exacly, and if there's an implied end marker at the end of the "messages".
Sorry for the late reply and not explaining it when I sent you those text files. The / are line breaks, and the [stuff] are name codes. Here's a (incomplete) list of them:
Spoiler:
[10][00] = Player 1's level
[10][01] = Player 1's job
[10][02] = Player 1's name
[10][03] = Player 1's head equipment
[10][04] = Player 1's body equipment
[10][05] = Player 1's arm equipment
[10][06] = Player 1's right hand equipment
[10][07] = Player 1's left hand equipment
[10][30] = Player 1's current HP
[10][31] = Player 1's total HP

[11][00] = Player 2's level
[11][01] = Player 2's job
[11][02] = Player 2's name
[11][03] = Player 2's head equipment
[11][04] = Player 2's body equipment
[11][05] = Player 2's arm equipment
[11][06] = Player 2's right hand equipment
[11][07] = Player 2's left hand equipment
[11][30] = Player 2's current HP
[11][31] = Player 2's total HP

[12][00] = Player 3's level
[12][01] = Player 3's job
[12][02] = Player 3's name
[12][03] = Player 3's head equipment
[12][04] = Player 3's body equipment
[12][05] = Player 3's arm equipment
[12][06] = Player 3's right hand equipment
[12][07] = Player 3's left hand equipment
[12][30] = Player 3's current HP
[12][31] = Player 3's total HP

[13][00] = Player 4's level
[13][01] = Player 4's job
[13][02] = Player 4's name
[13][03] = Player 4's head equipment
[13][04] = Player 4's body equipment
[13][05] = Player 4's arm equipment
[13][06] = Player 4's right hand equipment
[13][07] = Player 4's left hand equipment
[13][30] = Player 4's current HP
[13][31] = Player 4's total HP

[14][XX] = displays XX amount of spaces

The [.] are ellipses and appear in-game as a '...' squished onto a single tile. There is no end marker for the end of the messages - my tool OnionText just puts an 0x00 byte at the end of each message when compiling. Also, for dialogues that can't be displayed in a single text box (meaning that the message will scroll after four lines), there has to be a / at the end of the message or else it will display weirdly in-game by showing double (or triple or quadruple depending on how much room is shown in the text box) of the last line shown.

To get a better understanding of how the text formatting works, I recommend messing around with the translation using my OnionText tool, which has a text preview that updates as you type.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on August 07, 2017, 10:51:31 am
So, I finally got to write myself the proper script conversion tool and ran my compression algorithms on them. I do no know which table you used, depending on where the letters are placed it could affect the compression ratio a little. I made up some values just to fit them (punctuation symbols, which differs from the japanese anyway).

I assumed all messages are finished by a $00 value, and that empty message are only a $00 values. By making them point to an existing $00, those could be optimized out (but I didn't do that yet).

The script contains once a weird [*C] hyphen I have no idea what it means (bank2, message 74), so I just used [0C] instead as a placebo value.

For the whole script I have 96548 bytes. The best compression is with the Huffman algorithm. Huffman reduces the script to 61532 bytes, however this includes a length table, but since all messages are $00 terminated, the length table can be optimized out. There is a total of 1732 messages, meaning that by suppressing the 16-bit length table, 3464 bytes can be suppressed and the total size of compressed script would be 58068 bytes, a good 40% savings on the uncompressed script.

Huffman is however not the most practical compression to implement, it is simple enough but would be slow for rare symbols as it requires going through the entire table of frequent symbols first, and figure we're not decoding any of them. This slowdown could potentially cause problems if implemented as a romhack in a game that does not expect a slowdown here.

Byte pair/DTE/dictionary based encodings works poorly because some messages in bank2 uses symbols in the $30-$4f range, blocking this range which would normally be used for that. So my temporary estimate as how this would be done is leave bank 2 uncompressed and compress the other banks. Then I add uncompressed bank 2's size to estimate the total. The most interesting is the recursive byte pair encoding (basically it's exactly the compression used in AW Jackson's translation, except a byte pair can point to another byte pair, making the algorithm more powerful). So unlike Huffman this compression alrogithm is almost free, it's about 20 assembly instructions to get it working. Using this we could fit everything in 65783 bytes, a good ~31% of savings on the original size. But by altering the table in order to "pack" all used symbols near the end of the table as much as possible this ratio could be improved, as they'd be room for more byte pairs. Here I have byte pairs between $15 and $60. I'm fairly sure it could be enlarged to include at least $15 to $80, if this can be done, then maybe we can reach compression ratio almost as good as huffman, but it might require some hacking. For example the tiles used to make window borders or other things not present in the script should be moved "up", and all used symbols should be moved "down".

Please tell me if any of those sizes would make the script fit in a 512kb ROM. If not, then I'll have to look at whether it's possible to compress the graphics.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: aspiringnobody on September 06, 2017, 10:07:05 am
Possible bug:

Shiva's sleep spell has garbled graphics.  The damage spell appears unaffected.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: yasu on September 30, 2017, 01:08:09 pm
Possible bug:

Shiva's sleep spell has garbled graphics.  The damage spell appears unaffected.

This bug also occurs because the value stored in the IRQ counter is a relative value.
You can fix it by rewriting the following bytes.

Address $64099-$6409A

Original
Code: [Select]
19:8089:A9 6E     LDA #$6E
Fixed
Code: [Select]
19:8089:A9 96     LDA #$96
However, the behavior has changed slightly, such as an extra line remaining on the top of the raster effect.
I have not found the cause. :(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Donkeyjack on November 01, 2017, 07:10:35 am
How do I apply the patch?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Sephirous on November 20, 2017, 10:11:55 pm
Use Lunar IPS, I find it works the best. Find an unaltered Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM, Then apply the patch to it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AsheManosse on December 02, 2017, 03:41:47 pm
@ Chaos Rush:
I have thoroughly reviewed this forum topic, and have looked into alternate translations.  After extensive research, it appears to me that the result of this project is probably the most definitive English version of the original FF3 game.  The only problem is... this project is doomed to only be playable on PC and RetroPie devices... and not on the original NES hardware......  :'(

***Issue Recap:*** This project uses a MMC5 mapper patch to increase the PRG filesize from 512KB to 1024KB to make it easier for translation.  The original FF3 Japanese game and ROM use MMC3 mapping and 512KB for PRG.  To play this ROM on the actual NES hardware, you have to venture into repro cartridge territory (via donor cartridge, INL cartridge, etc.).  The issue is... no actual NES games used more than 512KB for PRG...

Alternatives Using the Current 1024KB MMC5 Solution:

To be clear, I am not interested in repro carts or ROM hacks for a different gameplay experience.  I am interested in making my own personal NES game cartridges for games that never existed, for games that SHOULD have existed.

On behalf of myself and other interested members of the community, we urge you to find time to converse further with Bregalad to see if it’s even possible that his compression methods are suitable to fit within the 512KB MMC3 solution.  The translation is already complete and Bregalad has already done part of the work.  With a little more involvement on your end, it may be possible to immortalize this project by making it not only the definitive English translation, but also playable on the original NES hardware. 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Pennywise on December 03, 2017, 08:19:33 am
It appears there's still some bugs with the MMC5 conversion, but assuming those get ironed out, I see no reason for going back to a smaller ROM.

People like to point out that they can't play 1MB ROMs on hardware, but it's not like something can't be made to support it. The MMC5 was specifically designed to handle ROM sizes up to 1MB.

The best bet is to start emailing etc those brilliant people who design flashcarts etc and let them know that there is a demand for such a product.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on December 03, 2017, 03:28:14 pm
Could be a problem for those flashcart makers if they only physically contain the RAM to support 512+512 games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AsheManosse on December 03, 2017, 08:00:22 pm
People like to point out that they can't play 1MB ROMs on hardware, but it's not like something can't be made to support it. The MMC5 was specifically designed to handle ROM sizes up to 1MB.

The best bet is to start emailing etc those brilliant people who design flashcarts etc and let them know that there is a demand for such a product.

You speak as if it's really that simple.  To date, there are no physical NES cartridges that support 512KB on PRG (legit or not), and no NES games ever required more than this.  What incentive would there be for a flashcart designer to put effort into designing and attempting to sell a cart that may be usable for only a few games, to a very narrow audience? 

And it's not just as simple as making a cartridge support more than 512KB on the PRG-ROM chip. Does the MMC5 mapping support a CHR-RAM and W-RAM configuration (this is specific to the FF3 pcb design; Source: http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1507 (http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1507))? There can definitely be more challenges depending on the uniqueness of the original cartridge created to house a specific game.

I realize that not everybody cares about playing this game on the original hardware, but at least trying to create a product that can be played on the original hardware gives weight to the authenticity and effort you put into your work.  For this project specifically, it isn't just some balancing hack or remixed gameplay, it's much closer to the finished work of what Nintendo should have delivered to the U.S. and Europe, so that fans of the series could experience games like FF3 on it's intended console.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Bregalad on December 04, 2017, 04:31:44 am
People like to point out that they can't play 1MB ROMs on hardware, but it's not like something can't be made to support it. The MMC5 was specifically designed to handle ROM sizes up to 1MB.
Indeed, and the MMC5 was also specifically designed to work with CHR-ROM, while Final Fantasy III was specifically desigend to work with CHR-RAM. Porting FF3 to MMC5 assuming CHR-RAM is available is a bad idea to begin with, which is just as non-standard as using an oversize MMC3.

Quote
Could be a problem for those flashcart makers if they only physically contain the RAM to support 512+512 games.
It is not possible per se to re-use the CHR-ROM flash chip to expand the PRG-ROM chip as they are on completely different bus. If this was a homebrew programmed from scratch it'd be certainly possible to do so and read the CHR-ROM chip from VRAM and use data as-it, but for a game already programmed to function a certain way this is almost unthinkable - or at least it would require very extensive hacking. Not to mention FF3 was made to use CHR-RAM anyway, and uses several graphical effects which totally relies on CHR-RAM.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Reiska on December 06, 2017, 02:10:50 am
You speak as if it's really that simple.  To date, there are no physical NES cartridges that support 512KB on PRG (legit or not), and no NES games ever required more than this.  What incentive would there be for a flashcart designer to put effort into designing and attempting to sell a cart that may be usable for only a few games, to a very narrow audience? 

And it's not just as simple as making a cartridge support more than 512KB on the PRG-ROM chip. Does the MMC5 mapping support a CHR-RAM and W-RAM configuration (this is specific to the FF3 pcb design; Source: http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1507 (http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1507))? There can definitely be more challenges depending on the uniqueness of the original cartridge created to house a specific game.

I realize that not everybody cares about playing this game on the original hardware, but at least trying to create a product that can be played on the original hardware gives weight to the authenticity and effort you put into your work.  For this project specifically, it isn't just some balancing hack or remixed gameplay, it's much closer to the finished work of what Nintendo should have delivered to the U.S. and Europe, so that fans of the series could experience games like FF3 on it's intended console.

Where there's a will, there's a way - just look at the MSU-1 on the SNES, which is a special chip for advanced audio playback that was explicitly designed by an emulator author and has since been produced in cartridge form by the hobbyist market.

If enough advanced NES translation projects or ROM hacks were produced to drive demand, someone would probably get it done eventually.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Asaki on December 17, 2017, 02:45:30 am
An excessively expensive option would be to use an Everdrive N8 cartridge, but even they only support up to 512KB for PRG (since no NES games used more than 512KB), so it is unlikely this is possible (anyone please correct me if I’m wrong; i.e. they’ve loaded the ROM onto their Everdrive N8 and tested it).
"Excessively expensive"? The EDN8 is actually one of the more affordable flash carts that Krikzz offers, especially when you consider the wealth of features it offers, and the huge library of titles. Compare that to what it would cost you to purchase some of those cartridges.

Unfortunately, MMC5 support on the EDN8 is rather poor, and few people have programmed alternate mappers, so that idea is out.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: JoeltCo on January 02, 2018, 10:45:08 pm
In the first part of the game, when I get the leather shield, it just says leather, with no symbol next to it. Is that supposed to be that way, or did I download the wrong Rom version?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on January 17, 2018, 10:20:33 am
King Sasune, in his initial dialogue, has two grammar errors.
He says in two separate sentences, "...unless if..."

1)
" We cannot regain our
  normal forms unless if
  the Djinn is defeated."

suggested edit:

" We cannot regain our
  normal forms until the
  Djinn is defeated."

2)
"King: The Djinn is hiding
  in the Sealed Cave, north
  of this castle. But, we
  cannot banish the Djinn
[/]
  once again unless if we
  had a Mythril Ring..."

suggested edit:

"King: The Djinn is hiding
  in the Sealed Cave, north
  of this castle. But, we
  cannot banish the Djinn
[/]
  unless we once again
  had a Mythril Ring..."
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: DavidtheIdeaMan on January 22, 2018, 11:22:59 am
I haven't been paying to this project for Final Fantasy III for the Nes but now I am,if Im correct that this translation project will fix every text of dialog and equipment name in the game,but also I have to say that some of the spells aren't as strong as in the DS remake?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: ermac on February 25, 2018, 01:29:15 am
Hello all!  I was playing my way thru the 1.4 version of FF3 Refurbished when I noticed this bug on the job select screen after gaining the 3rd set of jobs (Water Crystal)

The bard job listing appears to be one row too low and does not display job skill level or job point cost.
Tested in Nestopia UE 1.47, Nestopia 1.40 vanilla, FCEUX 2.2.3, and Mesen 0.94


Couldn't figure out how to attach an image so here's the link
https://imgur.com/a/T9tGL
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Endarire on April 15, 2019, 04:27:04 am
Greetings, all!

These requests are especially pertinent to Chaos Rush since he started this post, but I'd like these implemented if they haven't already been:

-Maeson Mix compatibility.  I'm liking the game so far.

-Optimal Equipment Setting: Certain Final Fantasy games - like FFV - have an 'optimal' or 'optimum' setting where the items with the highest offense (for weapons) and highest defense (for shields/armor/accessories) are equipped with a single button.  (I know that, in practice, this is just a quick way to have characters equip something in all relevant slots since what is truly optimal is context-sensitive.)

However, having experienced this in FFV, I'd like to know how feasible this would be for FFIII (NES), especially when changing jobs, and have it be toggleable, if only via IPS patches.  (In short, I'd like FFV-like behavior when equipping characters and changing their jobs.)

-Learn spells once and have the appropriate casters prepare them when they want:  In FFV, once the party learns a spell (like Fire or Cure), everyone in the party knows it permanently.  (Each party member can only cast it if they otherwise meet all prerequisites, such as being the right class, having enough levels, having enough MP, and being alive but not silenced.)

In FFIII NES, each character normally needs to learn a separate spell copy, but can only have 3 total spells per spell level active at a time.  Thus, finding a Cure2 spell means that only one character can have it equipped at a time, even if that character can't cast that spell such as due to class or level.

What I propose - and this requires a feasibility check for implementation - is that spells (Aero, Mini, Toad, etc.) are kept on a separate inventory screen and sorted by type - Black, Summon, White, etc. - and each character picks spells from that screen to learn based on spells found.  For example, if the party found the Cure2 spell, anyone could prepare that spell (that is, put it in a spell slot of that spell level) and cast it as normal, instead of needing to find 4 copies and handle spells as if they were items, competing with the inventory space best left for weapons, armor, and consumables.

In this model, spells would not be sellable to vendors nor trashable, but held onto forever in inventory.  However, due to likely technical limitations of the 3 spell slots per spell level setup, players would still need to swap in whatever spells they wanted active.  (If these limitations were altered, then the number of spells of each spell level each character could prepare would be the new limit of this mod.)  In general, my preference is to make spell preparation as easy as changing classes (and having access to all spells castable by that new class), thereby coming as close as possible to FFV.

Thankee!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: azul120 on April 22, 2019, 02:48:34 am
Looking forward to this!

All we need now is an "HD graphic" patch with visuals along the lines of the aborted 2d remake.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Ramdemann on April 22, 2019, 11:11:38 pm
Yes, An HD Patch would be incredible. Plus use the PSP Soundtrack over it.

In fact use the Origins Graphics from the first game on PS1, Then we can finally have an Origins Version of Final Fantasy III.  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 23, 2019, 02:23:23 pm
I know Chaos Rush has not been around since his last release and with these latest few typos grammar issues that need to be corrected, I am curious if his editor will work at fixing them. If they are, I say we should all step in to update it. Since my name is attached to it as a play tester, I don't know if I am allowed to be the one to fix it unless we can get a hold of Chaos Rush.

As for compatibility with real hardware, it is something I'd like to see happen. Whether it is compression or some other work around, that would be rather cool. Same with an HD graphics pack for Mesen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 06, 2019, 07:53:29 pm
Chaos Rush, as far as I've seen (I follow some of his Poké-related stuff) has pretty much vanished from the earth since August 15 2017. I don't think we can expect him to return anytime soon.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 07, 2019, 07:05:59 pm
Hello everyone, it’s been a while and I understand that the final release of this has a minor bug in the job screen that only happens when you have an odd number of jobs available, as well as some typos. I haven’t been doing much ROM hacking lately not necessarily due to lack of interest but lack of time.

There’s a couple reasons why I want to abandon this. First of all it’s completely incompatible with real hardware due to a mapper-setup combination that no Famicom/NES cartridge ever had (forgot the exact specifics, but I recall it was pointed out in this thread). I mean it works fine on emulators, but I realize the method that was used to expand the banks would have worked just fine without the mapper patch as well, and the outcome would have been the same: doesn’t work on hardware, works fine on emulators.

Secondly, the only way to get a version of this that doesn’t break any hardware rules is to simply keep the ROM the same size, thus heavily condensing the text. I have no interest in doing this whatsoever - to me the fun part of doing this was to compare the text from Japanese FFIII Famicom and English FFIII DS, but making a condensed version of the script means it’s an English-English project and I have no interest in doing that. There’s a lot more to it but I don’t want to go into too much details with personal stuff, but it has to do with my personal cultural identity that I’ve been struggling with for a while, basically I’m a half-Japanese that speaks iffy Japanese despite having lived in Japan for several years when I was little, and for the past few years I’ve been on a mission to improve it as much as possible, so doing a large English-based project has no merit for me. I’m sorry if that sounds selfish. Three years ago I wanted to play through all of the Final Fantasy games in English, but now I would rather just play through them in Japanese and experience the original works as they were written.

Also, when I did this project, my Japanese was quite bad compared to now. Luckily it’s not really a translation and more like a script-port of the official DS translation, so it worked out, and even if I redid it again I think the final result would be quite similar, but a small part of me feels like I was in no position to do this project at the time.

I know Chaos Rush has not been around since his last release and with these latest few typos grammar issues that need to be corrected, I am curious if his editor will work at fixing them. If they are, I say we should all step in to update it. Since my name is attached to it as a play tester, I don't know if I am allowed to be the one to fix it unless we can get a hold of Chaos Rush.
My editor OnionText should work. Any change that is made will recompile all the text in the game within the game’s text area to ensure that free space is used efficiently. If you’re down to it, I’ll gladly hand this project over to you to maintain typo fixes and such. But I’m not sure if this mapper combo should even be continued lol. Also not sure how to transfer thread ownership to other people.

Anyways, I’m sorry if I left you all hanging, but I just have no interest in maintaining this any further. I’m really sorry.

EDIT: one more thing I forgot to mention, some of the techniques used to achieve more screen space breaks some “guidelines” of Famicom/NES development in avoiding overscan areas. I think a real NES game would not do that, and instead find a better solution whether it be squish-tiles or abbreviations and whatnot (or port it to SNES/GBA).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 07, 2019, 08:04:42 pm
Thanks for the update, Chaos, and for all your work on this project. Your translations of FF2 and FF3 are the definitive versions I play and recommend. Also, this rom works perfectly on my Analogue Nt Mini, which might as well be real hardware for my usage. Best of luck in pursuing what’s closest to your heart right now and the years to come.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: AxlRocks on June 07, 2019, 08:44:14 pm
Dang, I didn't know there were hardware incompatibilities. Sounds like something that could be fixed with custom mapper support on a flashcart at least, or no?

Either way, I never played any Final Fantasy until a couple years ago and your II and III translations were the first versions I played. I really loved them, even though consulting Internet guides could be an exercise in translation of its own due to them referencing outdated and less accurate hacks, or the prototype in II's case :P But anyway, I really enjoyed playing them. Thought I'd just say that since you popped in, and best of luck with improving your Japanese.

And yeah, that would be nice if a typo update could be ironed out. I wish I still had notes or a better memory (I should'a posted them then :banghead: ) but I'm sure they've already noted in the thread somewhere.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 07, 2019, 11:29:39 pm
Hello everyone, it’s been a while and I understand that the final release of this has a minor bug in the job screen that only happens when you have an uneven number of jobs available, as well as some typos. I haven’t been doing much ROM hacking lately not necessarily due to lack of interest but lack of time.

There’s a couple reasons why I want to abandon this. First of all it’s completely incompatible with real hardware due to a mapper-setup combination that no Famicom/NES cartridge ever had (forgot the exact specifics, but I recall it was pointed out in this thread). I mean it works fine on emulators, but I realize the method that was used to expand the banks would have worked just fine without the mapper patch as well, and the outcome would have been the same: doesn’t work on hardware, works fine on emulators.

Secondly, the only way to get a version of this that doesn’t break any hardware rules is to simply keep the ROM the same size, thus heavily condensing the text. I have no interest in doing this whatsoever - to me the fun part of doing this was to compare the text from Japanese FFIII Famicom and English FFIII DS, but making a condensed version of the script means it’s an English-English project and I have no interest in doing that. There’s a lot more to it but I don’t want to go into too much details with personal stuff, but it has to do with my personal cultural identity that I’ve been struggling with for a while, basically I’m a half-Japanese that speaks iffy Japanese despite having lived in Japan for several years when I was little, and for the past few years I’ve been on a mission to improve it as much as possible, so doing a large English-based project has no merit for me. I’m sorry if that sounds selfish. Three years ago I wanted to play through all of the Final Fantasy games in English, but now I would rather just play through them in Japanese and experience the original works as they were written.

Also, when I did this project, my Japanese was quite bad compared to now. Luckily it’s not really a translation and more like a script-port of the official DS translation, so it worked out, and even if I redid it again I think the final result would be quite similar, but a small part of me feels like I was in no position to do this project at the time.
My editor OnionText should work. Any change that is made will recompile all the text in the game within the game’s text area to ensure that free space is used efficiently. If you’re down to it, I’ll gladly hand this project over to you to maintain typo fixes and such. But I’m not sure if this mapper combo should even be continued lol. Also not sure how to transfer thread ownership to other people.

Anyways, I’m sorry if I left you all hanging, but I just have no interest in maintaining this any further. I’m really sorry.

EDIT: one more thing I forgot to mention, some of the techniques used to achieve more screen space breaks some “guidelines” of Famicom/NES development in avoiding overscan areas. I think a real NES game would not do that, and instead find a better solution whether it be squish-tiles or abbreviations and whatnot (or port it to SNES/GBA).

Thanks for the update Chaos Rush. I wish you the best in what you do. I can work on typo fixes as I get spare time (which right now is also something I don't have much of lately) but I am curious as to what could fix that job screen bug.

As for the typos, once I begin I'll need to compile all of the errors that have been posted to fix. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post them here.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 08, 2019, 12:10:25 am
Thanks for the update Chaos Rush. I wish you the best in what you do. I can work on typo fixes as I get spare time (which right now is also something I don't have much of lately) but I am curious as to what could fix that job screen bug.

As for the typos, once I begin I'll need to compile all of the errors that have been posted to fix. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post them here.
If necessary, feel free to start a new thread as an addendum (similarly to your take on FFIV), or if you wish to continue the project as the same concept that it originally aimed to do then that’s fine with me too (but in that case a mod would have to transfer thread ownership). Seeing as our projects have overlapping audiences, I think you’d be a great fit for this, since the “translation/localization” part is done, you’re free to modify things as you see fit to make things tonally consistent with your FFIV & VI projects. I’ll try to stick around and can provide insight on wording/phrasing of stuff (as long as you provide the original Japanese line too, which the editor is designed as to always display it as a reference).

If you want, I can also provide my general hacking notes for FFIII, but I can’t at the moment because the laptop I have it on can’t connect to the internet where I am right now (won’t be an issue in the near future).

Feel free to take over for FFII as well lol, though that one works on hardware and for the most part I think it turned out alright given the limitations.

EDIT: Admittedly I feel a little bad that I didn’t have this as a 512kb project from the start, I simply believed that using the MMC5 mapper patch would have been the “correct” thing to do, not knowing I would alienate so many people due to mapper shenanigans of NES emulators and flashcarts and what not. I don’t want to be the one to make the 512kb version, but since I’m kinda responsible for this mess I want to help in someway so that people can play the original FFIII. I’m willing to provide a modified version of my tool for the purpose of making a 512kb version, and hopefully with that and my hacking notes, a 512kb version of an English FFIII can be made, but understand that unless someone has the ASM knowledge to massively compress text, then these compromises would have to be made:

* the script would have to be heavily abridged

* DTE compression would need to be implemented

* the in-game item menu showing the “...” for long item names wouldn’t work because I used an entirely separate text bank for those to differentiate from the main item screen from the overworld. In a 512kb ROM there would be no space to do that, meaning you’d either have to figure out how to extend the in-battle item menu, or have short item names.

If someone is up for this, I’m willing to work with them. As I said, I’m not interested in being the one to abridge the script, but I enjoy coding and ASM hacking. Let’s figure something out.

Do people just want to play the current MMC5 version but with typos fixed? Then I think Rodimus Primal can take care of that. Or is there demand for a 512kb version with an abridged script? In that case I’m willing to provide the “framework” for that (but someone else can abridge the script). Which one would you guys prefer?

(Or heck, forget Dawn of Souls, port FF1-3 to GBA and leave them in all their 8-bit glory, but have the freedom to use a VWF. Include both Japanese and English scripts. I’m sure Square Enix would get very mad if a homebrew port was ever made though lol)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Vanya on June 08, 2019, 04:55:45 am
For me, I don't play on real hardware.
So I would really like a typo update to the original project.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 08, 2019, 08:26:21 am
A typo update would be all I personally care about, although a console version would be nice for many others who want to enjoy this game. I also found a couple of typos in FFII, which I believe I already posted about in that thread, so I’m happy to help if I catch anything else.

It’s exciting to see these projects become somewhat active again!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 08, 2019, 09:21:39 am
Well the typo fix is the first thing I will be working on before the project goes through anything else.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 08, 2019, 02:13:17 pm
That's some awesome progress. Yes, Chaos' translation for FF3 is still the one I feel I'd like to play through the most. Even though it has a few small bugs, and incompatibility with real hardware, I consider it the definitive way to play FF3, and some real nice work on Chaos' part.

Though I suddenly feel the urge to learn Japanese...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Special on June 08, 2019, 03:17:10 pm
I'm pretty sure the people who use real hardware are the 1% minority vs. the 99% players that use emulators. I wouldn't let the real hardware issues get to you that much.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Disch on June 08, 2019, 03:31:01 pm
I'm pretty sure the people who use real hardware are the 1% minority vs. the 99% players that use emulators. I wouldn't let the real hardware issues get to you that much.

And 100 other ways to ensure your hack will not be future proof and will only work on select emulators.


The hardware is the standard.  If it works on hardware it will always work on every emulator ever made now and forever.

But if it doesn't work on the hardware, it's very possible your hack will be unusable in future generations of emulators as they grow more accurate.  It's "this hack only works on NESticle '95" all over again.


So... yes... worry about hardware issues.  Absolutely 100%.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Mugi on June 08, 2019, 03:33:25 pm
i was gonna say the same, but decided to just stay quiet since the emulator lovers always attack me for being an emu-hater :P

at any rate, it's definitely an issue to worry about exactly because of what Disch said.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 08, 2019, 04:32:07 pm
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Despite me saying on the previous page that I have no interest in maintaining this, I’ve come to realize that if I were to leave this behind and leave that audience hanging, it would be a dick move of me.

Rodimus Primal is free to continue on with the MMC5 version and it can be looked at as the “fully translated, definitive, non-abridged version” for people that have emulators compatible with it and want to experience something very close to the DS version in 8-bit style.

Given that at this point I’m probably the only person semi-active in the community that’s most familiar with how FFIII’s text system works, I realize that it would be wrong of me to sit back and be all “well good luck everyone, bye”. I’m going through some ideas in my head, and I think I can come up with something, but I’m not sure of the timeframe. Even though I said I’m not interested in condensing the script, maybe I can instead just do a new translation from scratch with minimalism in mind, and I would still get value from it since I get to work with Japanese text after all (I’m not interested in doing an English—>English project but I’m open to doing a new Japanese—>English project). All I’m saying is that I don’t want to leave you guys hanging.

In the mean time, I’d like to ask, for those of you that have played FFII on GBA and my FFII on NES, how did they compare? Did the FFII:R felt like it left out a lot of details or did it serve its purpose well? I’m asking because, though I don’t want to ignore Bregalad’s compression notes, I think simple DTE compression might be the way to go, but if that route is taken then you can expect the quality to be similar to FFII:R.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: mariosmentor on June 08, 2019, 07:48:47 pm
Well, I had a wall of text planned, but I realized I was missing the point of the question.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Special on June 08, 2019, 08:30:01 pm
And 100 other ways to ensure your hack will not be future proof and will only work on select emulators.


The hardware is the standard.  If it works on hardware it will always work on every emulator ever made now and forever.

But if it doesn't work on the hardware, it's very possible your hack will be unusable in future generations of emulators as they grow more accurate.  It's "this hack only works on NESticle '95" all over again.


So... yes... worry about hardware issues.  Absolutely 100%.

Okay... The point here is what's done is done, he has no interest in starting from scratch again to make this hack work on real hardware, and is now discouraged to even fix what little there's left to fix in his current hack because of the incompatibility issues, I'm saying he shouldn't fret over that so much because it's a very small minority of players, would you rather him just not bother at all? Like no shit if he were to go back in time before you started anything he should go the method of real hardware compatibility, but that's not an option.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 08, 2019, 10:44:28 pm
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Despite me saying on the previous page that I have no interest in maintaining this, I’ve come to realize that if I were to leave this behind and leave that audience hanging, it would be a dick move of me.

Rodimus Primal is free to continue on with the MMC5 version and it can be looked at as the “fully translated, definitive, non-abridged version” for people that have emulators compatible with it and want to experience something very close to the DS version in 8-bit style.

Given that at this point I’m probably the only person semi-active in the community that’s most familiar with how FFIII’s text system works, I realize that it would be wrong of me to sit back and be all “well good luck everyone, bye”. I’m going through some ideas in my head, and I think I can come up with something, but I’m not sure of the timeframe. Even though I said I’m not interested in condensing the script, maybe I can instead just do a new translation from scratch with minimalism in mind, and I would still get value from it since I get to work with Japanese text after all (I’m not interested in doing an English—>English project but I’m open to doing a new Japanese—>English project). All I’m saying is that I don’t want to leave you guys hanging.

In the mean time, I’d like to ask, for those of you that have played FFII on GBA and my FFII on NES, how did they compare? Did the FFII:R felt like it left out a lot of details or did it serve its purpose well? I’m asking because, though I don’t want to ignore Bregalad’s compression notes, I think simple DTE compression might be the way to go, but if that route is taken then you can expect the quality to be similar to FFII:R.

That would be awesome if you were able to make an updated script. Like you said, you're probably the ONLY (semi)active person who understands the inner workings of the game. Of course, that would only be the first part of the equation. After looking at the item screen again (its been a while since I played it), I can see WHY you did the changes to the item menu in battle, but it's not that necessary. I can always go in and create the tiles the same way I did with Namingway Edition so that items have the proper room to do what is necessary. It might give you the free space you need to keep the game within the boundaries of the size limitation. As for the script itself, I think using the DS translation as a reference isn't a bad thing, but you might want to go with the same route you did with FFII and keeping it truer to the original Japanese with Square's official names of course.

Speaking of FFII, I think most of us who've played it now consider it the best version of the Famicom original by a long shot. I don't recall running into any bugs last time I ran through it.

With the current state of the project, the only major translation error since the current version is from Vanya. I don't know if any other translation errors were addressed before that in perticular, but I can double check.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: tc on June 09, 2019, 02:21:53 am
New games (or hacks) don't necessarily have to work on an existing cartridge. Mappers were frequently introduced throughout the system's life, after all. It should, however, meet technical standards Nintendo would've permitted if proposed as an official NES release.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Lord Igniz on June 12, 2019, 03:43:22 am
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Count me as another one of those requesting a hardware compatible version. Would love to try this translation out, but I don't use emulators, would be amazing to play this on the real thing, many thanks if you decide to go through with this!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 12, 2019, 05:49:21 am
Just gonna day that I’m officially committing to making a 512kb hardware-compatible FFIII translation. Not sure if I should start a new thread for it or not when it’s ready, but at this point I kinda want people to forget about the MMC5 version so I may end up starting a new thread for it when it’s ready.

I spent a good few hours today working on the new version and I think the final result will be worth it for all. The script won’t be as fluffy as the previous version that’s based heavily off the DS version but the DS script had a lot of extra fluff anyways. The DS version had often times lines that were just “Thanks!” in the Japanese version were fluffed up into, “Thank you so much for graciously helping me with [relevant plot situation], warriors of light!” (slight exaggeration) and unfortunately a lot of that fluff is in the 1mb FF3:R. However, I think fluff in localizations is a good thing given that one has the space to do so, simply because Japanese is a high-context language where context is “read from the air”, while English is a low-context language where context must be clarified. But obviously in limited-space situations, you’d want to minimize the fluff.

With that said, this new script I’m working on is essentially a retranslation from scratch, but obviously I’m also cross-referencing the previous script for context, so it’s going pretty quickly (already about 10% done). Only information communicated in the original Japanese text will be in, and I think I’ll be able to fit it all in a 512kb ROM with my tools and DTE compression. I think I can produce something that still feels like the full complete FF3 script while maintaining hardware compatibility. Stay tuned everyone :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 12, 2019, 08:08:33 am
Woah that's some great news! Good luck with it! I guess I'll wait for your newest work before playing FF3.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 12, 2019, 11:17:58 am
Just gonna day that I’m officially committing to making a 512kb hardware-compatible FFIII translation. Not sure if I should start a new thread for it or not when it’s ready, but at this point I kinda want people to forget about the MMC5 version so I may end up starting a new thread for it when it’s ready.

I spent a good few hours today working on the new version and I think the final result will be worth it for all. The script won’t be as fluffy as the previous version that’s based heavily off the DS version but the DS script had a lot of extra fluff anyways. The DS version had often times lines that were just “Thanks!” in the Japanese version were fluffed up into, “Thank you so much for graciously helping me with [relevant plot situation], warriors of light!” (slight exaggeration) and unfortunately a lot of that fluff is in the 1mb FF3:R. However, I think fluff in localizations is a good thing given that one has the space to do so, simply because Japanese is a high-context language where context is “read from the air”, while English is a low-context language where context must be clarified. But obviously in limited-space situations, you’d want to minimize the fluff.

With that said, this new script I’m working on is essentially a retranslation from scratch, but obviously I’m also cross-referencing the previous script for context, so it’s going pretty quickly (already about 10% done). Only information communicated in the original Japanese text will be in, and I think I’ll be able to fit it all in a 512kb ROM with my tools and DTE compression. I think I can produce something that still feels like the full complete FF3 script while maintaining hardware compatibility. Stay tuned everyone :)

That's awesome news. With that, will there be room for modern item, monster, and town names, and will the B Button Dash you added work?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 12, 2019, 12:49:42 pm
That's awesome news. With that, will there be room for modern item, monster, and town names, and will the B Button Dash you added work?
Yes, everything regarding terminology will use the official Square Enix names as much as possible. Monster names, town names, spell names, and B Button dash is not an issue.

Now item names on the other hand, there are some difficult limitations to overcome with FFIII’s in-battle sliding item menu, but I’ll try and explore my options regarding that.

I’m not looking at the other unofficial translations at all so really the only names I have to choose from are the official ones.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: John Enigma on June 12, 2019, 12:54:54 pm
^ Nice.

I shall await for your new retranslation.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 12, 2019, 01:21:28 pm
Yes, everything regarding terminology will use the official Square Enix names as much as possible. Monster names, town names, spell names, and B Button dash is not an issue.

Now item names on the other hand, there are some difficult limitations to overcome with FFIII’s in-battle sliding item menu, but I’ll try and explore my options regarding that.

I’m not looking at the other unofficial translations at all so really the only names I have to choose from are the official ones.

I think that's where taking the route that I did with Namingway Edition will work to your benefit. There are some letters that you can use the extra font space for to fit longer item names. You can also abbreviate SOME things if it makes sense to do so.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 12, 2019, 06:07:12 pm
Exciting to see this translation coming back to life! It’s funny how I can easily play any of the remakes, yet there’s something about the originals that are more enjoyable to me. So grateful to everyone who dedicates their time and energy to making these romhacks come to life.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Lord Igniz on June 12, 2019, 06:34:20 pm
Chaos Rush, thank you so much for going ahead and making this project a reality. I thoroughly enjoyed playing the re-translated versions of FFI & FFII on my Famicom, looking forward to finally being able to play the entire original trilogy on my console. Good luck, we're all rooting for you. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 12, 2019, 09:38:56 pm
My two cents: it's okay to abbreviate stuff just for the in-battle menu, we already know what the item is from the "item get!" text boxes and the regular item menu.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 13, 2019, 01:37:30 am
I'm going to make a new thread in the near future so that people won't confuse this new project with the previous one, and to make sure that people are aware that the new version is hardware compatible running on the plain old MMC3 mapper.

But since I don't have enough to show for a new thread yet, I thought I would at least show this.

(https://i.imgur.com/AMv7hR6.png)

* A second pass has been taken at the item names, this time using more squish tiles to get the full name in

* Figured out a new way to give the appearance of abbreviation in the in-battle item menu. Unlike the MMC5 version, this does not use a separate list of item names - its reading from the same text data that the main item menu uses! (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to expand the in-battle item menu's width without expanding RAM due to the nature of it, so this is how it'll stay)

* Re-arranged the job menu to incorporate squish tiles. This also fixes that one glitch where the last job wouldn't show all of the info if you had an odd number of jobs. The full job titles have all made it in.

Again, all of these changes will only be in the new version because I am abandoning the old MMC5 version. As mentioned above, I'll start a new thread in the near future.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 13, 2019, 09:48:21 am
I'm going to make a new thread in the near future so that people won't confuse this new project with the previous one, and to make sure that people are aware that the new version is hardware compatible running on the plain old MMC3 mapper.

But since I don't have enough to show for a new thread yet, I thought I would at least show this.

(https://i.imgur.com/AMv7hR6.png)

* A second pass has been taken at the item names, this time using more squish tiles to get the full name in

* Figured out a new way to give the appearance of abbreviation in the in-battle item menu. Unlike the MMC5 version, this does not use a separate list of item names - its reading from the same text data that the main item menu uses! (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to expand the in-battle item menu's width without expanding RAM due to the nature of it, so this is how it'll stay)

* Re-arranged the job menu to incorporate squish tiles. This also fixes that one glitch where the last job wouldn't show all of the info if you had an odd number of jobs. The full job titles have all made it in.

Again, all of these changes will only be in the new version because I am abandoning the old MMC5 version. As mentioned above, I'll start a new thread in the near future.

For some items and weapons, don't be afraid to abbreviate some things or to drop the name all together. For example, Leather Shield can be just (Shield) Leather. I had to do that in Namingway. Also, see if you can make use of squish tiles that use two tiles for 3 letters instead of 2 letters on one tile. It will make it look smoother overall.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Special on June 13, 2019, 02:21:18 pm
Not a fan of those squish tiles, you should definitely go with abbreviations in situations like those, equipment also have little icons associated with them like the shield symbol, you could simple leave "LeatherShield" as "Leather" and the shield icon would make it obvious to the player.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Ramdemann on June 13, 2019, 08:30:17 pm
So I understand and not confuse whats actually happening with my wishful thinking.

You are going to release the translation again but without the expansion and mapper change?

So it just plays with the original Rom configuration just with a re-translation like how your Final Fantasy II re-translation was done?

Or is it something completely different?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: KingMike on June 13, 2019, 09:03:17 pm
Not a fan of those squish tiles, you should definitely go with abbreviations in situations like those, equipment also have little icons associated with them like the shield symbol, you could simple leave "LeatherShield" as "Leather" and the shield icon would make it obvious to the player.
Yes, that was how the official localizations, at least up through FFL3 did it anyways so I don't think it would be out of place.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Queue on June 13, 2019, 09:41:54 pm
Abbreviations create jargon (above and beyond whatever terminology you already have to learn to understand the game). While aesthetically dubious, the "squish tiles" allow retaining full words where otherwise purely technical limitations would necessitate placeholders (abbreviations) that have to be learned and are themselves aesthetically unpleasant.

Wanted to make sure there was a voice in favor in the hopes you won't ditch the "squish tiles."
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: svenge on June 13, 2019, 10:03:23 pm
Abbreviations create jargon (above and beyond whatever terminology you already have to learn to understand the game). While aesthetically dubious, the "squish tiles" allow retaining full words where otherwise purely technical limitations would necessitate placeholders (abbreviations) that have to be learned and are themselves aesthetically unpleasant.

Wanted to make sure there was a voice in favor in the hopes you won't ditch the "squish tiles."

Seconded.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 13, 2019, 10:38:06 pm
So I understand and not confuse whats actually happening with my wishful thinking.

You are going to release the translation again but without the expansion and mapper change?

So it just plays with the original Rom configuration just with a re-translation like how your Final Fantasy II re-translation was done?

YES.

I am going through the original Japanese script, re-translate it myself from scratch using as little words as possible, and then check the DS script for context and make edits. I dare say that the results of this will be more accurate than any previous translation so far (not that accuracy was the main issue of any of the previous translations).
(For instance, combing through the script I’ve already restored a specific reference to the final boss “Cloud of Darkness” that the talking Earth Crystal does, where the DS translation didn’t catch the final boss namedrop and instead had the Earth Crystal say “darkness that threatens this land”)

I think, I won’t start a new thread until it’s finished though. Not sure how long it will take, it’s not something that will be done in a week but it’s also not something that will take months either. Let’s just say my tools that I’ve already developed for FF3, combined with having archived the entire FF3 FC Japanese script AND the entire FF3 DS English script is making this go pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 14, 2019, 07:17:10 am
Would a version that's more console-compatible also be a version that's more compatible with various other ROM hacks (Maeson, Job Improvement)?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 14, 2019, 10:09:21 am
Would a version that's more console-compatible also be a version that's more compatible with various other ROM hacks (Maeson, Job Improvement)?
It would depend on whether or not those patches alter text data. If they alter purely mechanics data, as in if they work with the Japanese version of the game, then they should work with this too. If they alter any text, then it would probably still work but the altered text might not show correctly and/or it might overwrite text data of the translation.