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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on October 20, 2015, 10:03:33 pm

Title: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: RHDNBot on October 20, 2015, 10:03:33 pm
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1663a.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1663a.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1663b.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1663b.png)

Update By: fedorajoe

Haven't we all wondered what would have happened if General Leo survived the attack on Thamasa?  Well... here's a chance to find out!

This hack is a retelling of events in Final Fantasy VI (specifically the American SNES release, known at the time as Final Fantasy III), where General Leo survives and becomes a permanent party member.  The hack has been in development or over two years and the latest release, Version 3.1, comes very near to realizing the author's original vision for the project.

Highlights of the hack include new and expanded scenes, lots of new items, additional screen time for some of the secondary characters, answers to many previously unanswered questions, a healthy dose of bug fixes, and, of course, a glimpse into an intriguing world where Leo lived.

This hack was a major labor of love for the author, requiring hundreds of hours to create.  The intent was to stay as true as possible to the tone and portrayal of the Woolsey translation while introducing an interesting twist and several new story vectors that, while experimental, feel like a natural extension of the game's world.

So, have you ever wondered what might have been, if only...?  Then download the patch and see for yourself!

RHDN Project Page (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1619/)

Relevant Link (http://mailto:fedorajoe@hotmail.com)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: magictrufflez on October 20, 2015, 10:59:33 pm
My only beef with this hack is that you removed SHADOW of all people.  I know you have an extensive list of reasons why (mostly technical), but IMO he's one of the better written video game characters ever, if only because of the piecing his story together from dreams and other scattered clues, and virtually no exposition.

Strong work on the hack, but I just don't know if I can personally handle playing it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: obscurumlux01 on October 21, 2015, 12:24:12 am
I'll have to say removing Shadow is a very heavy tradeoff just to get General Leo.
If it was someone stupid like the Moogle or Snowbeast (Umaro?) or even both of them.  Don't care, let em disappear.

But Shadow!?

>_>
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: SageOwl on October 21, 2015, 12:57:35 am
Could have sworn I have already played and beaten this hack.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: faltain on October 22, 2015, 10:58:06 am
I would agree about the loss of Shadow... you couldn't get rid of Umaro to make Leo work? :(
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: aqualung on October 22, 2015, 05:33:25 pm
Now we need another mod for FFVII in which you could resurrect Aerith, hehehe.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Lilinda on October 22, 2015, 05:50:23 pm
Now we need another mod for FFVII in which you could resurrect Aerith, hehehe.

Eventually. It'll take a lot of time though. Much more of the game would have to be altered, percentage wise, than FF6.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 22, 2015, 07:53:35 pm
Quote
Now we need another mod for FFVII in which you could resurrect Aerith, hehehe.

No. Let's just leave her dead. She was Square's way of trolling us.

Besides, Tifa has a better *ahem* personality. ;)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: fedorajoe on October 22, 2015, 08:01:27 pm
Hi, I am the author of the hack.

I completely understand the feelings about Shadow, but there were a host of reasons why it had to be him.  It was not a situation where I decided someone sucked and dropped them; there was simply no choice considering my hacking skill level and the amount of investment I was willing to make in the project.  The reasons are supplied in the ReadMe.

Keep in mind, the point of the hack is to show one interpretation of a world where Leo lives, not to "improve" the game by dropping Shadow to gain Leo.  Were it possible to simply add one more permanent party member, then that's what I would have done, but that was not an option.

Also, this is not simply a hack where one character is replaced.  The whole point is to tell a new story centered on Leo and his relationships with Terra and Celes.  For me, any concession was worth making so long as I was able to tell that story.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: MathUser2929 on October 23, 2015, 08:36:51 am
Yup, Shadow is a pretty memorable character. Odd that you decided to write him out. I'm glad the hack was made tho. Always wanted a hack like this.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: badinsults on October 23, 2015, 12:32:28 pm
Just out of curiosity, what is the technical limitation that prevents adding an extra character? I seem to recall there was always two extra slots when changing characters in the airship.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Dwedit on October 24, 2015, 12:09:19 pm
Especially that there is a game genie code that puts Leo and Kefka into those slots....
The Leo slot is also used by Bannon and Maduin, but after it's used by Leo, it is never erased.  Might need a little hacking to make colosseum battles work, since you insta-lose with the message "Bannon Fell"
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on October 24, 2015, 05:02:58 pm
Eventually. It'll take a lot of time though. Much more of the game would have to be altered, percentage wise, than FF6.

Such a hack is there for a long time, already.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Lilinda on October 24, 2015, 05:24:26 pm
I'm not referring to gamesharking her in. I'm referring to doing what this hack did; Adjusting the story to account to for her being back/not dying.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Xenesis on October 26, 2015, 12:19:19 am
Considering how much of a pain data expansion can be when romhacking (especially with games like this that are filled with magic numbers and mystifying code!) I don't think anyone should really be admonishing a replacement strategy here.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Aquillion on October 26, 2015, 06:04:03 am
I'm not referring to gamesharking her in. I'm referring to doing what this hack did; Adjusting the story to account to for her being back/not dying.
AERIS:  (as her body drifts down into the water)  No, wait, I'm not quite dead yet!
CLOUD:  Yay!  Aeris is alive!
AERIS:  But I need you all to act like I'm dead, Because Reasons.
CLOUD:  This sounds reasonable and entirely logical.
AERIS:  Also I'm never going to say anything ever again or appear in any cutscenes, all right?
CLOUD:  Perfect!  I wasn't planning on talking to you again anyway.

Done.  Every possible plot-hole caused by Aeris' survival has now been fixed.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Gemini on October 26, 2015, 06:16:34 am
I'm referring to doing what this hack did; Adjusting the story to account to for her being back/not dying.
I'm not sure the story can be easily fixed. Aerith's death makes a lot of sense later when she casts Holy as a spirit - the White Materia requires a life to activate, and not just any life.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Aquillion on October 26, 2015, 06:47:50 am
I'm not sure the story can be easily fixed. Aerith's death makes a lot of sense later when she casts Holy as a spirit - the White Materia requires a life to activate, and not just any life.
Putting my joke above aside, honestly...  you could just remove Holy from the story entirely.  It plays a big role in the backstory, but has little direct impact on anything; you can just explain the big wave of light in that one cutscene as something else, eg. the Planet defending itself or whatever.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Gemini on October 26, 2015, 07:21:53 am
You can't write it out that easily. The whole quest is to remove Sephiroth from the equation, since he's the one blocking Holy from being casted in the first place. When Holy takes effect, it's too late, and still the spell manages to slow down Meteor so that Lifestream can bounce it back. You could say Lifestream is strong enough to prevent damage from happening, but that would make Sephiroth's attempt sound quite stupid in the first place.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Tirlititi on October 26, 2015, 01:45:07 pm
You could say Lifestream is strong enough to prevent damage from happening, but that would make Sephiroth's attempt sound quite stupid in the first place.

And the problem with that is.... ?

On-topic, I don't really know why General Leo is popular. I've only played FF6 once, but apart from the moment he decides to turn against Kefka, I have no memories of him at all. What does he do besides that?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Gemini on October 26, 2015, 03:22:27 pm
And the problem with that is.... ?
That the game tells you otherwise from minute 0 of the story and keeps making it more and more obvious via NPC interaction.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Tirlititi on October 26, 2015, 03:32:15 pm
I know well the minute 0 from FF7. There's a hint about how important the lifestream will be, but nothing about Sephiroth's stupidity or smartness :p
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Gemini on October 26, 2015, 03:49:54 pm
I mean the fact that Lifestream is weak and suffering. Sephiroth spends years trapped in there, so he would roughy know what it can or cannot do (clear hint: his plan to become a god with the damage from Meteor). That is why he stops Holy from being casted. The planet can heal itself in case of extreme damage, but it doesn't have enough power to defend from external attacks. Heck, it can't even stop Shin-Ra from extracting Mako Energy.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Lilinda on October 26, 2015, 04:04:01 pm

On-topic, I don't really know why General Leo is popular. I've only played FF6 once, but apart from the moment he decides to turn against Kefka, I have no memories of him at all. What does he do besides that?

He has Shock, which was an always multi target non-elemental equivalent of Fire/Ice/Bolt 3. It hurts. A lot.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: realworksuks on October 26, 2015, 11:44:03 pm
I think this is a really cool idea.  I'll be checking it out.  Appreciate the idea and the time you put into it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: semicolin on October 30, 2015, 01:58:57 pm
I've really been enjoying this hack so far. I love the little nuances you've added to the script for clarity ("Go see your friend, the king"), and I can't wait to encounter the alternate scenarios you've added.

Right now I have just left the Returner's hideout and I'm on the raft with Banon. However, I noticed that Banon's "Pray" command (another nice alteration) literally does nothing. Was this intentional? Is it just me? I am playing your latest release (3.1).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: abyssonym on October 31, 2015, 01:56:50 am
Just out of curiosity, what is the technical limitation that prevents adding an extra character? I seem to recall there was always two extra slots when changing characters in the airship.
The biggest problem is that there isn't any one place where you can fix it up to allow for a 15th character. The character select screen can display 16 characters no problem, but there are many, many places in battle events and map events where the game is hard coded to check only the first 14 characters... sometimes at the ASM level.

For example, when recruiting a character in the World of Ruin, the character will join your party immediately if your party isn't full already. However, if Leo is in your party, he doesn't get counted, so you can end up with five people in your party. One time I even exploited this bug to get permanent Magitek status from Cyan's dream.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Lilinda on October 31, 2015, 02:15:16 pm
The biggest problem is that there isn't any one place where you can fix it up to allow for a 15th character. The character select screen can display 16 characters no problem, but there are many, many places in battle events and map events where the game is hard coded to check only the first 14 characters... sometimes at the ASM level.

For example, when recruiting a character in the World of Ruin, the character will join your party immediately if your party isn't full already. However, if Leo is in your party, he doesn't get counted, so you can end up with five people in your party. One time I even exploited this bug to get permanent Magitek status from Cyan's dream.

As in perma magitek armor?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: abyssonym on October 31, 2015, 03:29:37 pm
Yeah, if you use the airship glitch to bring Leo into the World of Ruin, then start Cyan's dream sequence with 5 people in your party, in the cave segment, the game will give Magitek status to only the first three characters in your party. Then, when you leave the cave, it will remove the status from the first three characters. So, if you change your party order, you can keep the status.

Then if you find an enemy with Rippler such as Reach Frog, you can swap the status between your characters. I gave Magitek status to Terra and wrecked everything with TekMissile and Bioblast.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: semicolin on October 31, 2015, 11:01:51 pm
Is anyone else playing this? I have actually encountered a game-stopping crash (unless somehow it's just me). In Locke's scenario, right after Celes joins. When I cast Ice1 with Celes, the game crashes. Can anyone else confirm or deny? I have reloaded my save several times (actual save, not savestate), and I can always play until I decide to cast Ice1.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Lilinda on November 01, 2015, 07:19:29 am
What emulator are you running?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: semicolin on November 01, 2015, 01:40:28 pm
I normally use SnesGT .230 beta 7. I also tried loading my game in Snes9x to see if the emulator was the problem, but the issue still occurred. I did also just double-check and I did apply the patch to a headered Final_Fantasy_III_(U)_(V1.0)_[!] rom, so I don't think that would be the issue either. Although perhaps I should try patching a 1.1 rom instead since the readme says that's what is recommended.

November 01, 2015, 03:24:02 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
That was it. I patched a 1.1 rom and now Banon behaves properly and Ice1 does not crash the game. The author may want to be aware that a 1.1 rom is apparently needed for patching and not a 1.0 rom.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Endymian on November 24, 2015, 12:18:53 am
Edit: Nevermind.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: What if... General Leo had lived?
Post by: Endymian on December 15, 2015, 10:14:16 pm
...hello?  :-\