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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Gedankenschild on October 20, 2015, 07:34:05 pm

Title: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 20, 2015, 07:34:05 pm
Hello everyone! Yes I know, another Final Fantasy IV hack... 8)

I posted this on Slick before, but I thought I'd open a thread here as well for maximum exposure - and free beta testing... ;D

Final Fantasy IV is one of my favorite games. At the same time the various ports and remakes of the game are an endless source of frustration for me. Bad sound, small screen, sluggish combat, RPG Maker visuals - there's always something wrong.

One thing that I really do love, however, are the updated graphics of the Wonderswan/GBA versions. Those I cannot "unsee", they need to be ported back to the original. And to my annoyance, it seems that no one is gonna do it for me.

So here goes my first hacking project. My goal is to basically replace everything using 8 colors (which is almost the entire game) with the enhanced 16 color graphics from the aforementioned remakes.

At this point the enemy & summon battle graphics part is pretty much finished. A few small things could use polishing, but everything seems stable so far.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qz9e2xc9ke22nid/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29000.png?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/6np411g4qf6cusx/Final%20Fantasy%20IV%20%28NTSC%29%28Jap%29%281.1%29.png?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dr131xgmrjzf6l1/FF4_Summons.PNG?dl=0)

Below you find a beta patch replacing all enemies and summons.
Apply it to a headerless ROM of the US version.
Questions/feedback welcome!

Patch! (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/6pwe7oldoo1qb9h/FF2enemies.zip?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 20, 2015, 07:42:17 pm
One suggestion to make it look graphically even better, like the other updated versions: gradients for text boxes. You could easily achieve a nice effect by recoloring the windows during h-blank.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 20, 2015, 07:51:05 pm
Awesome! I was just wondering about the status of this hack the other day. I'm so happy to see that you're still working on it. Great idea.

Have you done anything/planning to do anything to the character portraits? From what I remember they could use a little color as well.

So what all's left?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Zynk on October 20, 2015, 09:55:47 pm
Are you doing it for the JP version also? (b/c last images have Japanese texts)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 20, 2015, 10:12:36 pm
Quote
Are you doing it for the JP version also? (b/c last images have Japanese texts)

Considering that there are screenshots of both I think it's safe to assume that the hack is compatible with the US and JP version(s).
Title: .
Post by: Chpexo on October 20, 2015, 10:32:26 pm
.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 21, 2015, 09:04:38 am
One suggestion to make it look graphically even better, like the other updated versions: gradients for text boxes. You could easily achieve a nice effect by recoloring the windows during h-blank.

That is something I'd really like to do. I browsed some tutorials, but have not yet seriously looked into HDMA. My only worry is that the letters are not on a transparent background. They're the same layer as the text boxes. I'm assuming this would have to be changed.

Awesome! I was just wondering about the status of this hack the other day. I'm so happy to see that you're still working on it. Great idea.

Have you done anything/planning to do anything to the character portraits? From what I remember they could use a little color as well.

So what all's left?

So you've written your 1000th comment already - Congrats! :woot!: I'm glad you're still interested.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2vyrrdpr6f78dbq/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29001.png?dl=0)

I got the portraits working, but for some reason they're not moving around correctly yet. Got tired of it and put it in a zip file.

I've been working on battle backgrounds, locations, overworld characters, townspeople as well. Most of the code is working. It's the process of putting it all together that's gonna take some time. Bit by bit...

Are you doing it for the JP version also? (b/c last images have Japanese texts)

My intention is to release patches for all versions of the game. The patch above only works with US versions, though. The JP version screens are from earlier versions. I switched to the US version after deciding to optimize/redo the ASM.

These look great and in the FF6 quality. Keep it up.

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on October 21, 2015, 10:06:22 am
Wow. Looking good so far. I too would like to see the character portraits updated to be a bit smoother, but keep their look from the SNES original. The GBA portraits just never looked right to me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 21, 2015, 10:54:40 am
That is something I'd really like to do. I browsed some tutorials, but have not yet seriously looked into HDMA. My only worry is that the letters are not on a transparent background. They're the same layer as the text boxes. I'm assuming this would have to be changed.
You don't need to change layering. You can replace the box blue color during h-blank and swap it from a table; that should generate a proper gradient and affect the boxes alone. Status menu should be easy, since you're applying it for all the scanlines, while for battles you can make it based on ranges.

Careful tho with gradients, they need some extra work with the font. From personal experience, if you apply a gradient you should also add a dropdown border or an outline, otherwise the font may blend with the gradient.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on October 21, 2015, 01:12:11 pm
I was wondering when I'd see a thread for this here.  :D


I may have said this over on SLick, but man, you are doing some kickass work on this!


Quote
Hello everyone! Yes I know, another Final Fantasy IV hack...

The more the merrier, I say! But I'm an FF4 junkie, so I might just be biased.  ;)


You're work on this is what inspired me to start playing around with graphics, so keep up the excellent work!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Maeson on October 21, 2015, 02:42:39 pm
Something that kind of annoys me of the original FF4 are the battle backgrounds. Mostly because after seeing what other versions have, they look a little harsh to the eyes.

Everything looks pretty damn good for now!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 21, 2015, 06:03:03 pm
Wow. Looking good so far. I too would like to see the character portraits updated to be a bit smoother, but keep their look from the SNES original. The GBA portraits just never looked right to me.

The GBA portraits really aren't well received in the FFIV hacking sphere. The ones from later versions are too big and/or use too many colors. Personally I'm still very interested in the slightly updated ones from the mobile version.

Careful tho with gradients, they need some extra work with the font. From personal experience, if you apply a gradient you should also add a dropdown border or an outline, otherwise the font may blend with the gradient.

I bookmarked the link to this tutorial ages ago.
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=27054
I wonder if a simple brightness gradient would do for text boxes? We're only going from dark to light blue and the font is already at maximum brightness (white).

You're work on this is what inspired me to start playing around with graphics, so keep up the excellent work!

You're too kind. :) I like your stuff on Slick, too. You weren't happy with the original overworld characters, were you? Did you ever think about working with more colors or do you want to stay within the original game's limits?

Something that kind of annoys me of the original FF4 are the battle backgrounds. Mostly because after seeing what other versions have, they look a little harsh to the eyes.

I did experiment with the backgrounds. They should be improved, since you see them so often throughout the game. This is where I am now:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/varb65kodcxgfrv/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29002.PNG?dl=0)

It's just a test, to see what's possible. I'd like to try and move the status effects graphics a little, then I'd have quite a few more tiles...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 22, 2015, 07:14:14 am
Incredible work!

Unrelated but also an aesthetic one. Is there a reason a variable width font never been implemented into FFIV other than its sheer difficulty doing so. I guess with the huge popularity of the game and fans still to this day who struggle with squishy tiles etc, it might be an near impossible task if you're not an rom hacking guru. I always felt that FFIV and even VI were games that desperately needed it, the latter at least contained one for the main text. Even the poor Mystic Quest had an VWF if I recall correctly. Just curious if there is actually a technical reason it never has been attempted.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 22, 2015, 07:22:51 am
Quote
Is there a reason a variable width font never been implemented into FFIV other than its sheer difficulty doing so.

Seems like one of the English trans hacks of the JP version has a VWF, but if I recall correctly, the font itself looked kind of ugly and out of place.

EDIT: Weird. I can't seem to find it. I KNOW I've seen the patch I'm talking about on this site.

Quote
Even the poor Mystic Quest had an VWF if I recall correctly.

What are you talking about? Everyone loves FFMQ. I think I even recall Disch saying that it was his favorite game. ;D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on October 22, 2015, 09:46:04 am
I love what you did with the desert BG test there. To me, updating the backgrounds has a bigger impact than the monsters (not to diminish the great work you've done with the monsters).

Glad to see this project continues to progress!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 22, 2015, 03:47:10 pm
Seems like one of the English trans hacks of the JP version has a VWF, but if I recall correctly, the font itself looked kind of ugly and out of place.

EDIT: Weird. I can't seem to find it. I KNOW I've seen the patch I'm talking about on this site.
The only fan translation patch I'm aware of is the J2E one and it used an incredibly ugly 16x8 font. No VWF hack has ever been made as far as I know. It just occured to me that the PlayStation port did have one, (might be what you were thinking about) so I guess it's not an impossibility. Still, it's always the menus in JRPGs that benefit the most from one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 22, 2015, 04:13:47 pm
Quote
The only fan translation patch I'm aware of is the J2E one and it used an incredibly ugly 16x8 font. No VWF hack has ever been made as far as I know. It just occured to me that the PlayStation port did have one, (might be what you were thinking about) so I guess it's not an impossibility. Still, it's always the menus in JRPGs that benefit the most from one.

Okay, I finally figured out what I was thinking of. It was this hack: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/440/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/440/)

I had trouble finding it because it wasn't a translation. My bad.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Maeson on October 22, 2015, 05:26:56 pm
Quote from: Gedankenschild
I did experiment with the backgrounds. They should be improved, since you see them so often throughout the game. This is where I am now:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/varb65kodcxgfrv/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29002.PNG?dl=0)

It's just a test, to see what's possible. I'd like to try and move the status effects graphics a little, then I'd have quite a few more tiles...

Holy Fuck. That's a big jump ahead. The example is far, far better!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 22, 2015, 10:11:36 pm
Incredible work!

Unrelated but also an aesthetic one. Is there a reason a variable width font never been implemented into FFIV other than its sheer difficulty doing so. I guess with the huge popularity of the game and fans still to this day who struggle with squishy tiles etc, it might be an near impossible task if you're not an rom hacking guru. I always felt that FFIV and even VI were games that desperately needed it, the latter at least contained one for the main text. Even the poor Mystic Quest had an VWF if I recall correctly. Just curious if there is actually a technical reason it never has been attempted.

I think part of the problem is that FFIV already has a finished (and lauded?) fan translation (J2e's). And well... I can only say that I fully agree with Tomato's take on that one. The game is seen as taken care of.
Technically there shouldn't be a problem. The game doesn't use enormous amounts of graphics, so there should be enough VRAM. I looked into it a bit, but VWFs aren't exactly a beginner's thing. I'm saving that for last, when my skills have (hopefully) built.

I love what you did with the desert BG test there. To me, updating the backgrounds has a bigger impact than the monsters (not to diminish the great work you've done with the monsters).

Glad to see this project continues to progress!

I agree! The battle backgrounds were the one thing in the GBA remake that really went beyond what could be done on the SNES. Let's see how far we can take this...
(Good to see you, btw.)

Okay, I finally figured out what I was thinking of. It was this hack: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/440/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/440/)

I had trouble finding it because it wasn't a translation. My bad.

I remember looking at that one. It seems they did what J2e did and allowed for a vertically enlarged font. Personally, I'm perfectly fine with smaller fonts:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/b04xlg1gmgrekc7/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29003.PNG?dl=0)

(bonus points if you know where I lifted that text from)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on October 22, 2015, 10:24:42 pm
I think part of the problem is that FFIV already has a finished (and lauded?) fan translation (J2e's). And well... I can only say that I fully agree with Tomato's take on that one. The game is seen as taken care of.
'

I wouldn't call J2E's fan translation "lauded" exactly, especially now with Tomato going through FF4 on Legends of Localization. (And even then there's still some things he doesn't mention or hasn't gotten to yet, like Cure somehow being warped from something like "Care" into "Keal.") I think most people just used it because it was the only retranslation available at the time and had better grammar than the official version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 23, 2015, 05:34:54 am
I bookmarked the link to this tutorial ages ago.
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=27054
I wonder if a simple brightness gradient would do for text boxes? We're only going from dark to light blue and the font is already at maximum brightness (white).
Nope, a brightness adjustment wouldn't work because text would be affected as well. The GBA ports simply change the box background color during h-blank.

Is there a reason a variable width font never been implemented into FFIV other than its sheer difficulty doing so. I guess with the huge popularity of the game and fans still to this day who struggle with squishy tiles etc, it might be an near impossible task if you're not an rom hacking guru. I always felt that FFIV and even VI were games that desperately needed it, the latter at least contained one for the main text.
There are no VWF hacks because those would require an almost entire rewrite of the menu code. You could still cut corners and use tricks like prerendered strings, but you'd also need VRAM resource reallocation to make text use a full 0-1023 tile range.

It just occured to me that the PlayStation port did have one, (might be what you were thinking about) so I guess it's not an impossibility.
That port pretty much hacks into the original SNES code and replaces rendering of layer 3 with something remangled to look like a VWF, but it's just using sprites to achieve a different spacing. The spacing code is kinda horrible and still limited to a fixed number of characters per line.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 23, 2015, 08:03:22 am
There are no VWF hacks because those would require an almost entire rewrite of the menu code. You could still cut corners and use tricks like prerendered strings, but you'd also need VRAM resource reallocation to make text use a full 0-1023 tile range.
That port pretty much hacks into the original SNES code and replaces rendering of layer 3 with something remangled to look like a VWF, but it's just using sprites to achieve a different spacing. The spacing code is kinda horrible and still limited to a fixed number of characters per line.
I see, how disappointing. The ugly formatting in the port suddenly makes a lot of sense after your description.

PlayStation port:

(http://i.imgur.com/dIjGbkX.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 23, 2015, 08:26:05 am
I think they formatted dialog like that because VWF was a last minute hack. IIRC, the game can out twice as many characters as the original per line, but it's never used.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 23, 2015, 11:50:43 am
I wouldn't call J2E's fan translation "lauded" exactly, especially now with Tomato going through FF4 on Legends of Localization. (And even then there's still some things he doesn't mention or hasn't gotten to yet, like Cure somehow being warped from something like "Care" into "Keal.") I think most people just used it because it was the only retranslation available at the time and had better grammar than the official version.

Tomato actually made a post about this. He does get feedback sticking up for the fan translation (for some reason).

http://legendsoflocalization.com/reader-feedback-ffivs-fan-translation/

Nope, a brightness adjustment wouldn't work because text would be affected as well. The GBA ports simply change the box background color during h-blank.

Damn! >:(

There are no VWF hacks because those would require an almost entire rewrite of the menu code. You could still cut corners and use tricks like prerendered strings, but you'd also need VRAM resource reallocation to make text use a full 0-1023 tile range.

Come to think of it, the majority of SNES translations (official and unofficial) seem to limit the VWF to text boxes (and item descriptions at times).
I guess that explains it (and the need to copy all item names into VRAM, instead of just the alphabet).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 25, 2015, 11:02:14 am
Come to think of it, the majority of SNES translations (official and unofficial) seem to limit the VWF to text boxes (and item descriptions at times).
I guess that explains it (and the need to copy all item names into VRAM, instead of just the alphabet).
Makes a lot more sense to me now. Thank you guys for explaining the issue to a novice.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: justin3009 on October 25, 2015, 07:36:12 pm
VWF was mainly strictly text boxes because many other areas of it being used would lag the game DRAMATICALLY.

There's the Finnish patch of Chrono Trigger that adds a VWF to the main menu, but by doing that, it causes the menu and such to be horrifically laggy.  It's because the stuff gets refreshed on updates when scrolling so it causes some horrible issues (Which is where pre-rendered strings REALLY come in handy).

Even still, it's possible to add a VWF anywhere really if it can be coded to fit properly, but if it's something that updates frequently, you're in for some trouble.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: TheZunar123 on October 25, 2015, 07:58:09 pm
I'm sure you have a lot of experience with that, Justin. :P (*cough* Phantasia)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 25, 2015, 10:27:51 pm
Even still, it's possible to add a VWF anywhere really if it can be coded to fit properly, but if it's something that updates frequently, you're in for some trouble.
Nah, prerendered strings pretty much take care of any lag, at worst you'd have to add double buffering for scrolling lists. FF4 should definitively work with a VWF since it can transfer to VRAM during menu transitions; scrolling isn't an issue either - backgrounds are barely repopulated at runtime, and even in that case the best it does is update 20 tiles in a row.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 26, 2015, 12:12:18 am
@justin3009
I was looking at the VWF thread you started (years ago) rather recently. Bookmarked it, that might come in handy... :)

Am I correct that prerendered strings basically means saving item names, etc. in ROM, ready for display, so you only need to copy stuff straight into VRAM?
I think I read that in byuu's proportional font guide.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KingMike on October 26, 2015, 01:00:25 am
Prerendered basically means storing all the item, etc. names as graphics in the ROM.
The other problem with VWF in general in tilemap-based menu engines (aside from lack of available tiles and lag) is making sure that if only part of the text on screen is updated at one time, that the VWF won't spill over and overwrite the tiles used for the non-updated part of the screen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on October 28, 2015, 02:33:21 pm
Hmm... if you don't mind me asking, but would a VWF be beneficial in FF4? I'm not 100% sure I know what a VWF is, but I assume that make for a bigger (vertically wide?) font?

Seeing as the J2e translation was noted as using one, I went ahead and tried it out. The font it's in using in the texboxes just seems super huge compared to FF4us's vanilla font (which imo was already big).

If you're looking for a different font because you're trying to make it look more like the WSC edition (or just don't like FF4's font in general) I've got some screens up on my Slick thread of a font I've been working on. It's neither VWF nor is it the font from FF4WSC (hell Idk if it was ever in english),  but if you're interested I would be wiling to share it with you.

Bear in mind it has a LOT of squish tiles to it, but that's just for squeezing as much text into battle messages/item descriptions/names of spells and enemies/Items/menus. But it's also a much skinnier font, it technically almost never looks "squished" in that sense.

Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 28, 2015, 06:03:24 pm
Hmm... if you don't mind me asking, but would a VWF be beneficial in FF4? I'm not 100% sure I know what a VWF is, but I assume that make for a bigger (vertically wide?) font?

Seeing as the J2e translation was noted as using one, I went ahead and tried it out. The font it's in using in the texboxes just seems super huge compared to FF4us's vanilla font (which imo was already big).

If you're looking for a different font because you're trying to make it look more like the WSC edition (or just don't like FF4's font in general) I've got some screens up on my Slick thread of a font I've been working on. It's neither VWF nor is it the font from FF4WSC (hell Idk if it was ever in english),  but if you're interested I would be wiling to share it with you.

Bear in mind it has a LOT of squish tiles to it, but that's just for squeezing as much text into battle messages/item descriptions/names of spells and enemies/Items/menus. But it's also a much skinnier font, it technically almost never looks "squished" in that sense.

I think pretty much every game benefits from a VWF. It looks more polished, more professional and you can fit a lot more text into the same space.
J2e didn't use a VWF, they simply added an additional row of tiles, allowing for bigger letters vertically.
A VWF places every letter exactly where the last one ended, as opposed to having a new letter start every tile (8 pixels). In a sense the entire text becomes one giant set of squish tiles, created on the fly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on October 29, 2015, 01:45:14 pm
Quote
I think pretty much every game benefits from a VWF. It looks more polished, more professional and you can fit a lot more text into the same space.
J2e didn't use a VWF, they simply added an additional row of tiles, allowing for bigger letters vertically.
A VWF places every letter exactly where the last one ended, as opposed to having a new letter start every tile (8 pixels). In a sense the entire text becomes one giant set of squish tiles, created on the fly.

Ohhhhhhhh.  :o In that case don't mind my idotic assumption from the previous post haha.  I can definitely see why you'd like to go with a VWF now that I know what one is.

I always wondered how some games accomplished the leltter-to-letter printing. compared to the tile-to-tile style of earlier FF's.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: justin3009 on October 29, 2015, 05:04:44 pm
It's doable on most SNES games (I'd rather not say all and jump the gun there) as long as there's enough room in VRAM to house everything needed.  FFIV would probably benefit greatly from having one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: JCE3000GT on October 29, 2015, 07:07:07 pm
Am I in the minority that FFIV doesn't really need VWF?  It might be a little too far from the original feel.  I would have to see and use it first hand to be convinced.  Guess I'm a stick in the mud?  LOL


I do think these updated graphics are brilliant. 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 29, 2015, 07:56:41 pm
Quote
Am I in the minority that FFIV doesn't really need VWF?  It might be a little too far from the original feel.  I would have to see and use it first hand to be convinced.  Guess I'm a stick in the mud?  LOL

I think it would look nice but don't see it being as necessary as the other improvements here. This was never one of those games where the text bugged me. The script is another issue though...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 29, 2015, 11:04:37 pm
This is looking amazing! FFIV is my second favorite game in the series (only behind FFV), so I'm really excited for this. ^^

Please, keep up the good job!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: JCE3000GT on October 29, 2015, 11:53:55 pm
I think it would look nice but don't see it being as necessary as the other improvements here. This was never one of those games where the text bugged me. The script is another issue though...

I agree with the script but I doubt there would of been room for all the stuff they took out now seeing it added back in on the Final Fantasy IV DS.  Too bad they didn't have the Final Fantasy VI or even Final Fantasy V engine in 1990/1991 for Final Fantasy IV...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on October 30, 2015, 12:21:13 am
Yeah, even with VWF, the real problem with dialogue in FFIV is the amount of space in ROM devoted to it. I mean, I guess if you're employing VWF, you can probably get away with using all those unused -kana tiles for squishies that wouldn't look out of place as they might if you weren't using VWF, but what a nightmare that would be to type out. And even so, how much space could you hope to gain in doing something like that?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on October 30, 2015, 07:44:36 am
VWF doubles or triples screen space in most cases, so it's always a good idea to have one around. On top of that, the project is visually updating the game - a VWF seems like the most logic consequence to make it feel fully modernized.

Text storage isn't exactly an issue, you can pretty much allocate twice as many banks as the original did and reference them with 24 bit pointers.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: justin3009 on October 30, 2015, 10:21:09 am
What Gemini said. Does the game employ any kind of system where one byte can be a long word? If not, I'd say incorporate that too. That would DRAMATICALLY compress the script down.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 30, 2015, 11:45:07 am
I'm worried about one thing, though.

I assume you're ripping the graphics from the GBA version, right? But on the GBA remake, everything looks too bright to compensate for the handheld's dark screen. It looks fine if you're playing on real hardware, but it looks too bright if you're using an emulator.

So, does that mean the hack will look very bright as well? or will you darken the graphics a bit?

(I'm no hacker so excuse me if this sounds stupid)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on October 30, 2015, 01:35:14 pm
What Gemini said. Does the game employ any kind of system where one byte can be a long word? If not, I'd say incorporate that too. That would DRAMATICALLY compress the script down.
It's not in the original game.
One thing you can generally assume is true about FFIV for SNES: if there is something that is a great idea, specifically as it relates to being a time or space saver, the original devs did not do it. Granted, in many cases it's because the game predates anybody ever thinking of the idea, but true nonetheless.
The one exception to this is the fact that the game does use DTE. But it only works in the parts of the game that already have the largest amounts of space in ROM devoted to text (that is, dialogue banks).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on October 30, 2015, 04:02:24 pm
Am I in the minority that FFIV doesn't really need VWF?  It might be a little too far from the original feel.  I would have to see and use it first hand to be convinced.  Guess I'm a stick in the mud?  LOL


I do think these updated graphics are brilliant.

Guess I might be in the minority as well haha. I mean, yeah, it sounds like a cool idea, but it isn't necessarily  needed.  The thought of extra banks to swap back and forth for more text space sounds epic as well, but would that hinder Graphics Update's current compatability of working with basically every FF4 hack one could throw at it?

To be honest, updating/modernizing the font/text doesn't seem as high priority to me as say, Actors/NPCs or tilesets. That doesn't take into account whether you're sticking with the vanilla font or going with some other type altogether, of course.

Also -

I'm worried about one thing, though.

I assume you're ripping the graphics from the GBA version, right? But on the GBA remake, everything looks too bright to compensate for the handheld's dark screen. It looks fine if you're playing on real hardware, but it looks too bright if you're using an emulator.

So, does that mean the hack will look very bright as well? or will you darken the graphics a bit?

(I'm no hacker so excuse me if this sounds stupid)

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's porting graphics from the Wonderswan Color version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 30, 2015, 04:21:10 pm
To be honest, updating/modernizing the font/text doesn't seem as high priority to me as say, Actors/NPCs or tilesets. That doesn't take into account whether you're sticking with the vanilla font or going with some other type altogether, of course.

I'm part of this minority as well. I'm completely fine with keeping font/text the same.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 30, 2015, 05:20:14 pm
It's doable on most SNES games (I'd rather not say all and jump the gun there) as long as there's enough room in VRAM to house everything needed.  FFIV would probably benefit greatly from having one.

Being an early and not so graphically intensive game, VRAM should indeed not be much of a problem.

Am I in the minority that FFIV doesn't really need VWF?  It might be a little too far from the original feel.  I would have to see and use it first hand to be convinced.  Guess I'm a stick in the mud?  LOL

I do understand the concerns. When it comes to updating old games, everyone has a different point where it starts not feel like the original anymore.
Let's say I finish this project with everything upgraded. Maybe besides offering a master patch, I could also offer individual patches, so everybody can put together their own thing, as it pleases them.
My personal ideal would be a VWF, text boxes with gradients and a new translation, perhaps based on Tomato's LOL site.

Text storage isn't exactly an issue, you can pretty much allocate twice as many banks as the original did and reference them with 24 bit pointers.

That is good to hear, haven't looked at it too closely myself, yet.

I'm worried about one thing, though.

I assume you're ripping the graphics from the GBA version, right? But on the GBA remake, everything looks too bright to compensate for the handheld's dark screen. It looks fine if you're playing on real hardware, but it looks too bright if you're using an emulator.

So, does that mean the hack will look very bright as well? or will you darken the graphics a bit?

(I'm no hacker so excuse me if this sounds stupid)

Bahamut ZERO is right. My hack is based on the Wonderswan version. I chose that version precisely because it does not try to overcompensate for the lack of a backlight.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3uwyk53mjzuq468/WSC-GBAcomparison.PNG?dl=0)

And thanks for the kind words, everyone. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 30, 2015, 06:02:10 pm
Bahamut ZERO is right. My hack is based on the Wonderswan version. I chose that version precisely because it does not try to overcompensate for the lack of a backlight.

Ah, that's good. :)

There's another thing. WonderSwan Color's resolution is 224x144, while SNES' resolution is 256x224. If you were doing something like porting graphics from SNES to NES, it'd not be a problem since the two systems share the same resolution. But would not it be a bit troublesome to port graphics from a system with smaller resolution? I'm guessing they'd be too small to fit on SNES.

(http://i.imgur.com/yvS0qwF.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/zbOpFyr.png)

This is what happened when I tried to replace the SNES battle BG with the WSC one:

(http://i.imgur.com/N5MDwug.png)

Do you have anything in mind to get around this problem?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 30, 2015, 06:18:20 pm
Quote
Do you have anything in mind to get around this problem?

From the examples I've seen so far it looked like Gedankens' battle backgrounds were "reinterpretations" rather than a direct import attempt.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on October 30, 2015, 08:43:46 pm
Hm, it does look like he's trying to create entirely NEW backgrounds for this hack, though using the After Year mobile version as inspiration. The desert background isn't really based on the Wonderswan or GBA versions.

If you did try to use the remake backgrounds, you might try looking at the PSP remake (instead of Wonderswan or GBA) as those backgrounds are in higher resolution. And somewhat darker color schemes already than GBA. Might be easier and less ugly to resize them down to fit than to scale the WSC versions up to fit. Though that's again assuming you don't just make new backgrounds.

I took one of the PSP battle backgrounds and resized it to around the SNES' resolution and reduced the colors and the result still looks quite appealing (i'd say much better than the SNES original backgrounds). Here's the result (256x152 with 17 colors)-
(http://i.imgur.com/2iMaeeP.png)

Granted I don't know what to color limit or the specific palette you need to adhere to or any other limitations I may not have thought about. The maximum amount of colors used by the SNES version's battle backgrounds seems to be about 14 from what I can tell, I don't know whether that's an actual limit by the game or if you can go higher than that. Since the Wonderswan version's background uses about 17 colors from the image posted above (without the sprites or menu/text items, JUST the battle background), I adhered to that specific parameter. Not that you can't convert the PSP backgrounds to 14, it still looks fairly good. But the result is still better with 17 colors. Here's what you get when you adhere to 14 colors though (which again is still much better than the SNES original art wise)-
(http://i.imgur.com/SHpDfHl.png)

Again I didn't really take into account the specific color palette needed. If this idea sounds stupid and the above image isn't appropriate for what is needed, I apologize. I've no knowledge of the rom hacking process and I don't know how many colors or whatnot you need, but maybe you can at least get some ideas by looking at the PSP remakes.

EDIT- Nevermind about my comments regarding colors above, i'm an idiot. Gedankenschild's edited desert background uses 25 colors (separate from sprites and menu/text). So my concerns about a possible 14-17 color limit was unfounded. My bad. So here's a 25 color version of my PSP resize for lulz-
(http://i.imgur.com/nP6k4HA.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 30, 2015, 09:39:27 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/nP6k4HA.png)

Wait, are you telling me it's possible to make the backgrounds look THIS good on the SNES version? o.O

This is way more than I expected. Seriously, my mind will be blown if the backgrounds become like this, lol.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 30, 2015, 09:48:25 pm
Am I in the minority that FFIV doesn't really need VWF?  It might be a little too far from the original feel.  I would have to see and use it first hand to be convinced.  Guess I'm a stick in the mud?  LOL
It might depend what you mean by original feel, a VWF doesn't necessarily need to be an entirely new font. See your site logo/address for an example or see Mystic Quest.

I think it would look nice but don't see it being as necessary as the other improvements here. This was never one of those games where the text bugged me. The script is another issue though...
Keep in mind that FFIV is a game that contains dialogue during battle screens, dialogue boxes with a total limit of 24 characters. In order to have a somewhat decent translation of these monologues, a VWF is necessary, if you don't want to split the lines in several parts. There's simply no screen space available.

A VWF hack isn't really needed but what hack really is? FFIV isn't exactly unplayable with the original graphics either but Gedankenschild's work on this look fantastic.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on October 30, 2015, 10:07:00 pm
Synnae-

I don't know if it's possible at all, and I wasn't saying it was so don't quote me on that. I was asking if it would work because I don't have ANY hacking experience. I just converted those PSP images while taking the SNES' resolution and possible color limits (the color palettes I used turned out to be conservative apparently) into account.

Whether importing those exact images into the SNES rom via hacking is possible or not I have NO idea. It does make me wonder what sort of roadblocks you'd meet in the attempt, because Gedankenschild's desert background posted earlier in the topic looks very nice and uses even more colors than the images I posted (it's much higher quality than the SNES original). Though his background also still uses a lot of redundant repeated tiles that may be more ram/vram friendly than what I posted. There are still clear repeated patterns when you look closely.

The image I posted has no repeated tiles, so that may or may not be a problem. Which is one reason I (as one with no experience in the matter) asked whether it could be possible. There are probably other limits besides the resolution and colors I didn't take into account.

Now on the other hand, i've seen SNES games use some rather high quality battle backgrounds without many repeated tiles. FF6 uses even higher color backgrounds than what I posted and relatively few repeated tiles compared to 4. Though that is also a far more advanced (likely very different) engine that pushes the SNES a lot harder than FF4. What is possible on the FF6 engine may not be on the FF4 engine. Other SNES RPG's have had even greater detail than FF6 for their battle backgrounds (Tales of Phantasia). But whether FF4 specifically can pull off the images I posted, I don't know.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 30, 2015, 10:41:57 pm
Wow, thanks for the input everyone, especially the photoshoppers! :)

I initially thought about porting over the Wonderswan backgrounds with size adjustments. But we can do better than that and here's why:
The WSC version uses one 16 color palette per background. The SNES original uses two 8 color palettes. My hack expands this to two 16 color palettes. Minus transparent colors that's 30 (though transparents can be used as black - Square did).

The tricky part is the tile limit. The most tile intensive background is the field one. That one uses 40 8x8 pixel tiles. That space is always reserved for bg graphics. If I managed to move some things around, I think that could be increased to 63 tiles. That's what the game engine can address without having to be rewritten.

The version I'm particularly interested in for backgrounds is the mobile version (including After Years). The screen size is closest to the original and it seems somewhat simpler than the Wii version. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a tileset of the mobile backgrounds anywhere... :(

Of course none of that could hold a candle to what Granville did. :cookie:
I'd like to see a similar version of the beach... What software did you use?

P.S. I ripped off Rudra No Hihou for the desert ground. ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 30, 2015, 10:52:14 pm
Quote
Keep in mind that FFIV is a game that contains dialogue during battle screens, dialogue boxes with a total limit of 24 characters. In order to have a somewhat decent translation of these monologues, a VWF is necessary, if you don't want to split the lines in several parts. There's simply no screen space available.

A VWF hack isn't really needed but what hack really is? FFIV isn't exactly unplayable with the original graphics either but Gedankenschild's work on this look fantastic.

If there was a retranslation, that would change everything. I would be totally for a VWF in that case. I def understand the issue of space when it comes to translating.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 30, 2015, 11:05:10 pm
P.S. I ripped off Rudra No Hihou for the desert ground. ;)

IMHO, I don't think that's a good idea. Not sure if it's just me, but I'd rather have updated graphics using updated versions of the same game than graphics from completely unrelated games. :/

Might be just me. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on October 30, 2015, 11:34:46 pm
Wow, thanks for the input everyone, especially the photoshoppers! :)

I initially thought about porting over the Wonderswan backgrounds with size adjustments. But we can do better than that and here's why:
The WSC version uses one 16 color palette per background. The SNES original uses two 8 color palettes. My hack expands this to two 16 color palettes. Minus transparent colors that's 30 (though transparents can be used as black - Square did).

The tricky part is the tile limit. The most tile intensive background is the field one. That one uses 40 8x8 pixel tiles. That space is always reserved for bg graphics. If I managed to move some things around, I think that could be increased to 63 tiles. That's what the game engine can address without having to be rewritten.

The version I'm particularly interested in for backgrounds is the mobile version (including After Years). The screen size is closest to the original and it seems somewhat simpler than the Wii version. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a tileset of the mobile backgrounds anywhere... :(

Of course none of that could hold a candle to what Granville did. :cookie:
I'd like to see a similar version of the beach... What software did you use?

P.S. I ripped off Rudra No Hihou for the desert ground. ;)
My apologies for not explaining what I did to get these images. I didn't want to assume it was possible to insert them into the SNES version.

I don't deserve any real credit or praise for what I did. It was a VERY simple and automated process to resize and reduce the colors, no skill or photoshop required whatsoever. You could do it in under a minute yourself for each background. All you need is Irfanview (and there are probably other programs that offer the same/better functions), and this sheet of the PSP battle backgrounds-
http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/48/50889.png

Each of the backgrounds when separated seem about 512x304 each in resolution. Separate one of the backgrounds from this sheet and open it in Irfanview. Under the "Image" menu, there's a Resize/Resample tool. Before using it I also checked the options to preserve aspect ratio, as well as the Lanczos resampling filter and "Apply Sharpen after Resample" option. I then resized the image to 256 pixels wide (preserve aspect ration automatically detected the proper vertical resolution as 152). Hit ok and you're already half done.

After resizing, find "decrease the color depth" under the "Image" menu. Here I checked "Use Floyd-Steinberg dithering" and "Use best color quality". You can select a custom amount of colors up to 256, so you can use as many as the SNES can handle. I tried 14 to match the original SNES colors, 17 to match what it appeared the Wonderswan version handled. And then 25 like your edited desert scene. The exact palettes required by the SNES may differ from what Irfanview uses, though it may not be too hard to swap them with whatever SNES requires.

Incidentally, there's also a submenu under "Image" in Irfanview called "Palette", and another menu called "Edit palette. You can use this to view and even manually edit individual colors of an image if it's 256 colors or less. I didn't use this in the process other than to determine the quantity of colors there were in the battle backgrounds for the original SNES, Wonderswan remake and your own edits.

Here's the same process applied to the beach scene using 25 colors (the dithering used for the sky gradient could possibly use some more manual tweaking, might fiddle and see what it looks like)-
(http://i.imgur.com/ODGtOJv.png)

EDIT- I don't know if this is any better or not (not very good at image editing this sort of thing), but here's my attempt at trying to clean up the sky dithering a bit for the resized beach scene above-
(http://i.imgur.com/Huw4D38.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on October 31, 2015, 12:47:47 am
Quote
My apologies for not explaining what I did to get these images. I didn't want to assume it was possible to insert them into the SNES version.

(http://i.imgur.com/Gy0lbzk.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: kogami on October 31, 2015, 01:36:24 am
Source code for 8x8 vwf and 16x16 vwf Final Fantasy IV (SFC)

https://github.com/manz/ff4
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on October 31, 2015, 02:40:53 am
SunGodPortal-

I was clear from the very beginning about having no hacking knowledge and not knowing if it was possible. I made it abundantly clear in my first post that my images were edited from the PSP remake, resized to approximately SNES resolution with reduced color palettes. Anyone who read my post (instead of just looking at the pictures) would have realized that... ::)

Anyway, Gedankenschild, I went ahead and converted the others using the same method I described above. Again all of them are 256 pixels wide and use 25 colors each. You can find them here-

http://imgur.com/a/gSUmL

Some of these I also edited the dithering on the sky gradients because the automated conversion caused the dithering to turn out very poor. Though some of my efforts are pretty poor as well, including the airship sky-
http://i.imgur.com/PD6O7TI.png

And this light source is also poorly edited on my part-
http://i.imgur.com/XfKDTDH.png

And i'm not entirely happy that the color conversion process removed the red and blue light effects from this image- http://i.imgur.com/Tt73qZO.png

I suck at non-linear dithering effects, I can't do curves and circles properly. So given my incompetence, here are the images without my horrible attempts to fix them (they look way better and someone else with actual skill can give it a go if they want)-
http://imgur.com/a/XFsKI

If anyone wants to use these images for whatever reason by the way, go ahead and feel free (and feel free to edit them further if you like as well).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on October 31, 2015, 10:19:47 am
The dithering effects doesn't bother me in the slightest, to be honest. In fact, I think they look kind of cute and nostalgic. Reminds me a bit of PC-8801/PC-9801 graphics.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 31, 2015, 01:34:23 pm
IMHO, I don't think that's a good idea. Not sure if it's just me, but I'd rather have updated graphics using updated versions of the same game than graphics from completely unrelated games. :/

Don't worry, as I said: It was just a test. I wanted to show that you can have a nice background, that is not just a repetition of the same tile over and over again.

@Granville:
I really appreciate the effort and your explanation. I'm gonna save these backgrounds and take a good look at them. We'll see what I can do...

(And I'm sure SunGodPortal was just pulling your leg...) ;)

Source code for 8x8 vwf and 16x16 vwf Final Fantasy IV (SFC)

https://github.com/manz/ff4

:o Oh, wow! That came as a surprise. Are you still working on this one or is it an abandoned project? I checked the Terminus Traduction page, but FFIV isn't listed among the projects...

Just so everybody knows what we're talking about:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qfig8ygzp83t2bh/FFIVVWF.png?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: KillerBob on October 31, 2015, 02:45:49 pm
Whoa, someone's been working hard on it already! :o  That's awesome, kogami! Please tell us more about it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on October 31, 2015, 04:50:34 pm
The Final Fantasy VI font works better than I'd expect it to. It looks kind of weird without the drop-shadow, though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: JCE3000GT on November 04, 2015, 12:15:17 pm
It does look good for sure, I'm still on the fence.  :). Having said this however I don't like the "drop" shadow though.  Still, just my opinion. 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on November 04, 2015, 01:05:08 pm
Drop shadows would be required only if text boxes get a gradient. Gradients are cool, but they need to be handled with care. :S
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on November 04, 2015, 08:00:10 pm
Drop shadows would be required only if text boxes get a gradient. Gradients are cool, but they need to be handled with care. :S

When you say "required", do you mean highly recommended in terms of readability or is there a technical reason?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on November 04, 2015, 08:22:37 pm
It's kinda necessary because the gradient may render part of the glyphs blend so badly with boxes they wouldn't be readable (same applies if you have no boxes at all or boxes with alpha). I remember having a test some time ago with a thick font, no shadow whatsoever. The result was quite bad, but a simple drop shadow fixed the blending issue.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on November 06, 2015, 12:26:14 pm
It's kinda necessary because the gradient may render part of the glyphs blend so badly with boxes they wouldn't be readable (same applies if you have no boxes at all or boxes with alpha). I remember having a test some time ago with a thick font, no shadow whatsoever. The result was quite bad, but a simple drop shadow fixed the blending issue.

Oh wow. All this time I thought the shadowing on the font was just for more detail in general.  :huh:

Very informative!

Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Panzer88 on November 27, 2015, 02:39:22 pm
this is looking great Gedankenschild! I also liked the WSC version but not much after, so this is a great combination!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Spooniest on November 30, 2015, 06:08:01 am
Count me in as totally for this. It looks like it could be a real treat.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on November 30, 2015, 04:09:03 pm
Thanks Panzer88 & Spooniest! :)

I wasn't in the mood for ASM work, so I've been working on location graphics lately - which is a bit more of a copy and paste job.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/4l5mf3vn8l8rzmt/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29004.PNG?dl=0)

It uses the GBA palettes for now since those (and the tilesets) are easier to extract thanks to VBA...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on November 30, 2015, 08:58:31 pm
In general, that looks fantastic. I sped so much time staring at 3bpp ffiv tilesets that the difference really is dramatic for me.
A few tiles look a bit off, though. The shadows on the ground just to the right of the doorway in the two screens on the left hand side don't seem to come directly from the rock protrusion, and the rock wall in the top right has some rocks that look kind of like... Mouths?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: ManZ on December 01, 2015, 03:43:17 am
Hi there :)
allow me to complement these information:

Source code for 8x8 vwf and 16x16 vwf Final Fantasy IV (SFC)

https://github.com/manz/ff4

There is currently no 8x8 vwf code, but it would be lovely :) The 8x8 font is used to generate static graphics for words that don't fit the screen (LEVEL translation 'Niveau' is one of the examples that crosses my mind.

The dialog vwf is in fact a 8x16 because I didn't need characters wider than 8px.

:o Oh, wow! That came as a surprise. Are you still working on this one or is it an abandoned project? I checked the Terminus Traduction page, but FFIV isn't listed among the projects...

It's not really a Terminus project, i'm the only one working on this project ^^ (but not very active because i'm a bit tired of it).
I have a work in progress battle magic on two columns (on the branch dev/battle_items_two_columns) but i still have local changes.

If you have further questions I'll be glad to answer it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on December 01, 2015, 04:34:34 am
Thanks Panzer88 & Spooniest! :)

I wasn't in the mood for ASM work, so I've been working on location graphics lately - which is a bit more of a copy and paste job.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/4l5mf3vn8l8rzmt/Final%20Fantasy%20II%20%28NTSC%29%28Eng%29%281.1%29004.PNG?dl=0)

It uses the GBA palettes for now since those (and the tilesets) are easier to extract thanks to VBA...

Looking great! Can't wait to be able to see these graphics in action when completed. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 01, 2015, 10:24:48 pm
This looks awesome!  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on December 01, 2015, 10:57:29 pm
Looking awesome! ;D

I wish you good luck with the extraction of the WSC graphics. ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 02, 2015, 09:55:00 am
In general, that looks fantastic. I sped so much time staring at 3bpp ffiv tilesets that the difference really is dramatic for me.
A few tiles look a bit off, though. The shadows on the ground just to the right of the doorway in the two screens on the left hand side don't seem to come directly from the rock protrusion, and the rock wall in the top right has some rocks that look kind of like... Mouths?

Oh, this is just phase one where I essentially paste both palettes and tiles over the original ones. The original doesn't have shadows at all. That's why things don't fit perfectly together yet.
The remade tilesets tend to use fewer tiles for mostly walls and such and instead invest more in shadows and additional walkable floor tiles.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/x98e6eg7588hgqd/SealedCaveTilesets.PNG?dl=0)

Note how wall parts that were ALMOST identical before are now completely redundant. These will be turned into those additional shadow tiles etc. next.

Those rocks that look like mouths to you are really holes with candles. Animated graphics use their own loading code and are not part of the individual tilesets. Therefore these are still 3bpp and use the wrong palette. I wasn't in the mood to investigate them yet... ::)

Hi there :)
allow me to complement these information:

There is currently no 8x8 vwf code, but it would be lovely :) The 8x8 font is used to generate static graphics for words that don't fit the screen (LEVEL translation 'Niveau' is one of the examples that crosses my mind.

The dialog vwf is in fact a 8x16 because I didn't need characters wider than 8px.

It's not really a Terminus project, i'm the only one working on this project ^^ (but not very active because i'm a bit tired of it).
I have a work in progress battle magic on two columns (on the branch dev/battle_items_two_columns) but i still have local changes.

If you have further questions I'll be glad to answer it.

Nice to make your acquaintance, ManZ!

I'm very interested in your project. I always wanted to look into the creation of a VWF. That requires more skill than what I'm currently doing however, so I've always been intent on saving it for last. I went back and rewrote graphics and palette loading code several times as my understanding of it increased.
If you decided to keep working on it that would of course be less work for me... :D

Otherwise I might indeed study your code at one point and take you up on your offer when questions arise. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 02, 2015, 11:47:55 pm
The updated graphics look great. I'm hoping that you make any font changes optional. I'm sure some would like compatibility with Namingway Edition.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 11, 2015, 09:56:46 pm
The updated graphics look great. I'm hoping that you make any font changes optional. I'm sure some would like compatibility with Namingway Edition.

My goal with the graphics overhaul is to keep it as compatible with other hacks as possible. I didn't test it with Namingway Edition yet, but there shouldn't be a problem.
I'm keeping things separate, so people can put together what they like.

Now for an update:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s70g3l0kg3886cv/mountain.png?dl=0)

I've moved on to the mountain tileset and I think it can be reproduced with only a few sacrifices... 8)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 11, 2015, 10:50:08 pm
I didn't like the new mountains at first, but the more I looked at them, the more I liked them. Something about the steps looks "off" though. Like the sense of depth/dimension isn't right. Like they are awkwardly slapped on top.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 11, 2015, 11:15:52 pm
I didn't like the new mountains at first, but the more I looked at them, the more I liked them. Something about the steps looks "off" though. Like the sense of depth/dimension isn't right. Like they are awkwardly slapped on top.

I guess you will have to take that one up with Square, the stairs are an exact port... :police:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qhvev0qozdv5gf2/mountain2.png?dl=0)

If you are in the mood for some pixel artistry: Be my guest! You got 4 16x16 tiles at your disposal. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 11, 2015, 11:36:08 pm
Hmm. That might be hard to remedy because I'm guessing that not all of the stairs are in the shadows such as that one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 11, 2015, 11:52:26 pm
Is it the palette you're talking about? That it's too bright? That would be easy to change. We'll see what the others say...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 12, 2015, 12:28:49 am
Quote
Is it the palette you're talking about? That it's too bright? That would be easy to change. We'll see what the others say...

Hmm. That might work. Maybe that's why it "pops out" so much.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Synnae on December 12, 2015, 07:37:10 am
The updated graphics look great. I'm hoping that you make any font changes optional. I'm sure some would like compatibility with Namingway Edition.

I'd certainly enjoy that myself. :)

@Gedankenschild:
The mountain update looks great! Keep up the good job. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 14, 2015, 09:48:08 am
Thanks Synnae! :)

I'm gonna throw something out here:

You may have noticed that the one part that wasn't updated for the remake is the forest/mountains background.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/o2o5uy34rl4kkpj/mountain4.png?dl=0)

What has changed is that it now uses only one 16-color palette instead of four 8-color palettes.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/zhytl32kxenkru6/mountain5.png?dl=0)

I really like the idea of improving that one in some way. There are now 60 colors reserved for it, which is quite something...
Is there a tileset/complete shot of the PSP version's anywhere to be found? I didn't come across it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on December 15, 2015, 02:30:24 pm
If the opening cutscene is anything to go by, they don't use one texture for that whole backdrop in the PSP version. But I was having problems with the GPU crashing while I was playing it in PPSSPP.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 16, 2015, 12:51:06 am
I never played the PSP version myself. While its graphics are obviously beyond what the SNES could do, I thought they could maybe serve as a basis. There doesn't seem to be a complete picture of it around, though...

I'm trying out some stuff here and there.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mr7t8qqv61ct4bg/mountain6.png?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 16, 2015, 01:14:08 am
Looks like a good start.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SC on January 05, 2016, 10:58:13 am
Any update on this? I've been secretly longing for the evolution on this awesome project!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 06, 2016, 05:52:11 am
Any update on this? I've been secretly longing for the evolution on this awesome project!

Well, here's what I've been up to:

I did some work on the town interior tileset. The basic copy and paste stuff. The good news is that there's a nice amount of tile space left unused, so most of the additional stuff (wall decoration, shadows and such) can be ported over next.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/auzrg10zaf2dxac/house.PNG?dl=0)

Some ASM research had to be done to figure out how the game determines how many bytes of map layout to load (it does so by loading both the offsets of the current map and the next one).

I then switched to the town maps because they are good candidates for some further testing and I can only look at a specific tileset for so long before I get sick of it... ::)

I'm focusing on optimization here as I port things over, removing some redundancies and making room for new wall tiles.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/95rpp3h54awaz1q/town.PNG?dl=0)

Then it's time for a bit more variation in the grass... ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on January 07, 2016, 09:08:11 am
Sweet! I can't wait to have this.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SC on January 07, 2016, 10:48:51 am
Nice! For some time I thought this was reaching stuck or dead status.  :-[ :P

Let's hope you continue delivering this level of awesomeness to ancient FF4. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: DackR on January 07, 2016, 12:12:11 pm
Excellent work! I can't wait.  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 10, 2016, 11:48:39 am
I'm impressed, honestly i hope you'll work on other games too in the future  :thumbsup:

Is there anything i could help you with? I'm pretty good with photoshop and similar things.

Btw you should make a video of the enhanced version you are working on add some music and post it on youtube. You'll boom :D

BTW i presume this will work on real hardware too, right?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SC on January 10, 2016, 02:35:25 pm
BTW i presume this will work on real hardware too, right?
Unless he or she is doing some badly coded ASM changes to the game, it should.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 13, 2016, 04:36:01 am
It's always nice to hear that people are interested. :)

I made a bit more space for tile roof tiles (heh), the original ones are extremely simplistic. Hopefully I'll also be able to include the new chimneys.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wko9mu3sz979d0v/town3.PNG?dl=0)

Even more time was spent on examining the tables used to load tilesets, maps, palettes and such. I rewrote the graphics loading code, too. What I had until now was a horrible bastardization of the airship code attached to the standard location loading code. Now it's simple and clean and doesn't need any jumps to additional subroutines... :D

I'm impressed, honestly i hope you'll work on other games too in the future  :thumbsup:

Is there anything i could help you with? I'm pretty good with photoshop and similar things.

Btw you should make a video of the enhanced version you are working on add some music and post it on youtube. You'll boom :D

BTW i presume this will work on real hardware too, right?

One thing I'd REALLY like to do is update the battle backgrounds of Final Fantasy V (SNES), porting back the GBA version's as far as possible. But that will have to wait, my HDD is cluttered enough with this project...

Since you're asking: There has been a discussion on Slick Forums about what version of the game has the best portraits. Quite a few people don't seem to really like the GBA version's that much... Complete Collection was preferred by quite a few. I tried running these through some automated processes, downsampling them to 32x32 @ 16 colors. The results were quite horrible! :huh:
Rydia's green hair and skin colors were fused into some sort of monochrome brownish mess. My skills are limited to MS Paint - which is more than enough for copy and pasting tiles.

And yes, this will work on real hardware. I'm not doing anything outside the actual SNES's capabilities.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 13, 2016, 12:37:41 pm
It's always nice to hear that people are interested. :)

I made a bit more space for tile roof tiles (heh), the original ones are extremely simplistic. Hopefully I'll also be able to include the new chimneys.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wko9mu3sz979d0v/town3.PNG?dl=0)

Even more time was spent on examining the tables used to load tilesets, maps, palettes and such. I rewrote the graphics loading code, too. What I had until now was a horrible bastardization of the airship code attached to the standard location loading code. Now it's simple and clean and doesn't need any jumps to additional subroutines... :D

One thing I'd REALLY like to do is update the battle backgrounds of Final Fantasy V (SNES), porting back the GBA version's as far as possible. But that will have to wait, my HDD is cluttered enough with this project...

Since you're asking: There has been a discussion on Slick Forums about what version of the game has the best portraits. Quite a few people don't seem to really like the GBA version's that much... Complete Collection was preferred by quite a few. I tried running these through some automated processes, downsampling them to 32x32 @ 16 colors. The results were quite horrible! :huh:
Rydia's green hair and skin colors were fused into some sort of monochrome brownish mess. My skills are limited to MS Paint - which is more than enough for copy and pasting tiles.

And yes, this will work on real hardware. I'm not doing anything outside the actual SNES's capabilities.

Can you direct to those files/discussion so that i can take a look at them?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 13, 2016, 04:32:17 pm
Can you direct to those files/discussion so that i can take a look at them?

Not sure to which files you're referring, but here's the discussion:
http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1945.0
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 13, 2016, 04:59:31 pm
I think the discussion around the portraits took place when I hijacked one of Gemini's threads. The screens I posted are gone now, though. I think they didn't survive the forum update.

The PSP portraits can be seen here:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/psp/finalfantasy4thecompletecollection/sheet/67865/
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on January 13, 2016, 07:44:56 pm
Hm, I tried some downsampling and color reductions of my own on the PSP portrait of Adult Rydia (kind of like what I did with the battle BG's earlier in this thread). Reduced to 32x32 pixels, I wasn't sure what specific colors you need them to be so I just automated the color reduction process. I'm not exactly a very good artist, but I don't personally see a problem. I used Irfanview to do this-

(http://i.imgur.com/iyJByTb.png)

I'll try the other portraits and see what they look like using the same process. Let me know if the above is something that can work for you.

EDIT- Here's my attempt with Paladin Cecil's portrait (i'll continue to add the other characters to this post as I make them):
(http://i.imgur.com/GKunRSn.png)
Dark Knight Cecil:
(http://i.imgur.com/DdawDcl.png)
Kain:
(http://i.imgur.com/pzvvk5C.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 13, 2016, 07:52:21 pm
Quote
I used Irfanview to do this-

Man, I'm glad you mentioned this. I have some stuff I need to do and this would be perfect for it, but I couldn't remember the name. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on January 13, 2016, 08:01:08 pm
Rosa's portrait is giving me some trouble, the automated color process is giving me issues with maintaining her green eye color. I'll see what I can do for her but will come back to her later. I'll check the others first.

Here's Edge, i used a hopefully obvious color for the background transparency (rethinking my method of reducing colors to see if i can get some better quality on the faces)-
(http://i.imgur.com/2T5YVX5.png)
Fusoya-
(http://i.imgur.com/HfQ28cM.png)
Cid-
(http://i.imgur.com/WSKts5T.png)
Tella-
(http://i.imgur.com/btsbg39.png)
Child Rydia-
(http://i.imgur.com/iYtXzWf.png)
Edward-
(http://i.imgur.com/TxgX3tI.png)
Yang-
(http://i.imgur.com/oavoNbe.png)
Palom-
(http://i.imgur.com/bF73Ebt.png)
Porom-
(http://i.imgur.com/hKXIg6t.png)
Golbez-
(http://i.imgur.com/eP7Td8r.png)

It's not perfect, but here are my attempts with Rosa's portrait (with a few personal edits of my own)-
(http://i.imgur.com/CHjFled.png)

The "dead" versions of the character portraits are just exact color inversions of the normal ones.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 14, 2016, 12:38:50 am
Quote
Reduced to 32x32 pixels, I wasn't sure what specific colors you need them to be so I just automated the color reduction process. I'm not exactly a very good artist, but I don't personally see a problem.
Assuming Gedankenschild didn't change this (and I don't know why he would), the portraits each have their own dedicated palette, so the color selection doesn't have to jive with anything else at all, actually.
I think those look great.
Of course, it's not my project, so that's just some dude's opinion.
 ::)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 14, 2016, 01:47:34 am
Any portraits are better than the trash they used for the GBA version. These downscaled PSP ones look quite fantastic! I'd love to see if they would actually work on the SNES though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 14, 2016, 03:09:51 am
Rosa's portrait is giving me some trouble, the automated color process is giving me issues with maintaining her green eye color. I'll see what I can do for her but will come back to her later. I'll check the others first.

Here's Edge, i used a hopefully obvious color for the background transparency (rethinking my method of reducing colors to see if i can get some better quality on the faces)-
(http://i.imgur.com/2T5YVX5.png)
Fusoya-
(http://i.imgur.com/HfQ28cM.png)
Cid-
(http://i.imgur.com/WSKts5T.png)
Tella-
(http://i.imgur.com/btsbg39.png)
Child Rydia-
(http://i.imgur.com/iYtXzWf.png)
Edward-
(http://i.imgur.com/TxgX3tI.png)
Yang-
(http://i.imgur.com/oavoNbe.png)
Palom-
(http://i.imgur.com/bF73Ebt.png)
Porom-
(http://i.imgur.com/hKXIg6t.png)
Golbez-
(http://i.imgur.com/eP7Td8r.png)

It's not perfect, but here are my attempts with Rosa's portrait (with a few personal edits of my own)-
(http://i.imgur.com/CHjFled.png)

The "dead" versions of the character portraits are just exact color inversions of the normal ones.

Looking good. How many colors are you planning for these portraits? I Rosa's ones the only problematic one at the moment?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Granville on January 14, 2016, 03:30:26 am
Looking good. How many colors are you planning for these portraits? I Rosa's ones the only problematic one at the moment?

I'm not actually part of the project or anything, i'm done with what I was doing. They're all 32x32 pixels and use a max of 16 colors.

Gedankenschild mentioned he only uses MSPaint and wasn't happy with how his converted portraits look, I gave it a try. Irfanview has some decent automated tools built in for resizing and decreasing the colors. He mentioned 32x32 pixels and 16 colors, so I adhered to those parameters. Most of the portraits ended up looking pretty good IMO. I don't know if the actual color values will work, but maybe he can make use of them in some way and build on them from there.

The problem with Rosa was her eye color, she's supposed to have green eyes but Irfanview's automatic color reduction tool made it look really bad and creepy. I ended up editing her eyes by hand. I'm again not really much of an artist, but I personally think the results look okay. If anyone else wants to make further alterations then feel free-
(http://i.imgur.com/CHjFled.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 14, 2016, 04:32:35 am
Those look so much better than what I attempted, Granville. Thanks once more! :)
I think I'll provide alternatives, so everyone can choose what they like best and the PSP ones should definitely be part of that.

And chillyfeez is right. The only limitations are a resolution of 32x32 and 16 colors of your choice each. I should have mentioned that one of these colors is used for the transparent background, I'm glad that was taken into account (looking at the green backgrounds).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 14, 2016, 05:34:17 am
Yup very good looking!

I'm available if there's other needs.

Btw How does this process of "remaking" work? Would it be possible on other games? Any tutorial?

I find this a very interesting project and would like to understand the inner tricks of it!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on January 14, 2016, 08:37:49 am
Those portraits look fantastic! Well done. Those would definitely be my choice.
About the inverted palette for the dead state, I think I'd rather they just use a grey or sepia palette.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 14, 2016, 10:22:26 am
Yup very good looking!

I'm available if there's other needs.

Btw How does this process of "remaking" work? Would it be possible on other games? Any tutorial?

I find this a very interesting project and would like to understand the inner tricks of it!
What I'm doing involves a few steps. The first is the conversion from 8 color graphics to 16 color graphics. You need to locate the loading code and tweak it to load the 4th bit. Then you need to tweak the palette loading code to load twice as many colors. And since both 4bpp graphics and palettes take up more space, nothing will fit where it used to. You will have to expand the ROM and put the new graphics and palettes in the new area. As a result nothing is where the game expects it to be and you need to find out how and where the game determines from where to load what. Sometimes you just have to overwrite a particular address. Other times you'll be rewriting entire tables and such to make it work.
I can give a few examples of code changes and explanations as I go along if there's interest...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 14, 2016, 01:55:49 pm
More documentation is never a bad thing, I'd say go for it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gemini on January 14, 2016, 02:24:20 pm
So, about field tilesets, does the Snes version allocate enough VRAM for you to store full GBA/WSC tiles? I guess character sheets shouldn't be a problem, at least in that case you have 1:1 copies.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 14, 2016, 03:27:30 pm
So, about field tilesets, does the Snes version allocate enough VRAM for you to store full GBA/WSC tiles? I guess character sheets shouldn't be a problem, at least in that case you have 1:1 copies.
It doesn't. The WSC/GBA tilesets are up to 512 tiles in size. The SNES version allocates VRAM for 384 tiles. Now, that's not going to be a problem with most sets, since they don't use anywhere near the maximum available space. The town tileset, however, does.

I have a solution, though: I spent some time recently looking at various tables and their loading codes. It is possible to move those tables elsewhere and expand them. If I want to, I can give each town its own tileset and/or tile arrangement maps. Since no town uses everything (some don't have paved streets, others don't have water) the limitations can be worked around.

The character sheets will present a bit of a challenge. While the SNES version simply mirrors the lower parts when walking, the remake has tiles for everything and is a bit larger as a result. It's even worse when it comes to townspeople. They are NOT actually palette swaps anymore. You can't use the blue shirt man's palette with the red shirt man. Someone will have to do some pixel art here (and I fear it's gonna be me)...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on January 14, 2016, 03:41:13 pm
Editing those sprites for use as palette swaps should be easy.
I've actually been recovering from a nasty cold so I have a couple of days of free time.
Send me the images you need worked on with instructions and I'll have them for you in no time.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 15, 2016, 02:36:11 am
What I'm doing involves a few steps. The first is the conversion from 8 color graphics to 16 color graphics. You need to locate the loading code and tweak it to load the 4th bit. Then you need to tweak the palette loading code to load twice as many colors. And since both 4bpp graphics and palettes take up more space, nothing will fit where it used to. You will have to expand the ROM and put the new graphics and palettes in the new area. As a result nothing is where the game expects it to be and you need to find out how and where the game determines from where to load what. Sometimes you just have to overwrite a particular address. Other times you'll be rewriting entire tables and such to make it work.
I can give a few examples of code changes and explanations as I go along if there's interest...

Sounds pretty complicated, but fascinating! You are doubling the color on screen.

So you have 16 colors per sprite/palette correct?
What is the usable limit of colors on screen after this "trick" you have applied?

Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 15, 2016, 03:43:20 am
Editing those sprites for use as palette swaps should be easy.
I've actually been recovering from a nasty cold so I have a couple of days of free time.
Send me the images you need worked on with instructions and I'll have them for you in no time.

OK, I ripped the Townspeople from the WSC ROM some time ago. There are three palettes used for them. In the original it's the same. However: In the original these are all designed to work with the same graphics. In the remake each palette has its own dedicated tileset, so they are not structurally compatible.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/18974rael8rwqb4/tp_red.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f7nqbay95ts6vbh/tp_blue.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3fl76abkyb0oabw/tp_purple.bmp?dl=0)

What we need are three palettes that work with the same tileset. As in color 1 is the darkest clothing color. Color 13 is the brightest hair color and so on. These are just examples. You could structure these palettes as you please. Sprites that only appear on one set don't need to be compatible with the others, like Big Chocobo, Anna or Rydia's mother.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9659a3k09s4n60k/tp_palettes.PNG?dl=0)

The blue and purple clothing palettes are already highly similar, so it makes sense to use them as a starting point. You might also decide to invest more in hair color, as the red clothing palette does. It's up to you.
I can provide you with TileLayerPro palettes for these as well. That way you could load the bitmaps and compare how they look with each palette applied.

Sounds pretty complicated, but fascinating! You are doubling the color on screen.

So you have 16 colors per sprite/palette correct?
What is the usable limit of colors on screen after this "trick" you have applied?

Yes, we get a 16 color palette per graphic tile. The SNES can display 256 colors at once, or 16 palettes.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 15, 2016, 12:29:08 pm
Hmm... Why does the Mysidian Elder have all three palettes?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 15, 2016, 01:46:26 pm
OK, I ripped the Townspeople from the WSC ROM some time ago. There are three palettes used for them. In the original it's the same. However: In the original these are all designed to work with the same graphics. In the remake each palette has its own dedicated tileset, so they are not structurally compatible.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/18974rael8rwqb4/tp_red.bmp?dl=0)


What we need are three palettes that work with the same tileset. As in color 1 is the darkest clothing color. Color 13 is the brightest hair color and so on. These are just examples. You could structure these palettes as you please. Sprites that only appear on one set don't need to be compatible with the others, like Big Chocobo, Anna or Rydia's mother.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9659a3k09s4n60k/tp_palettes.PNG?dl=0)

The blue and purple clothing palettes are already highly similar, so it makes sense to use them as a starting point. You might also decide to invest more in hair color, as the red clothing palette does. It's up to you.
I can provide you with TileLayerPro palettes for these as well. That way you could load the bitmaps and compare how they look with each palette applied.

Yes, we get a 16 color palette per graphic tile. The SNES can display 256 colors at once, or 16 palettes.

I tried to work a tiny little bit on the sprites some manually and used a bit of dithering on some others; i need to find a software that allows for palette changes without doing a mess manually :D

Let me know it it looks any little bit better
(http://i.imgur.com/EQNXD6o.png)

the little changes are easily seen on the bomb and some of the mantles. Mostly negligible effect, but it might get a bit better on a palette change.

EDIT: I misread what you needed :D silly me

Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 15, 2016, 02:40:00 pm
Hmm... Why does the Mysidian Elder have all three palettes?

Interestingly enough he is never used in the Wonderswan version. He does make an appearance in one of the added missions of the GBA version. It makes me wonder whether there were plans to add additional content to the WSC remake at first. Romancing Saga had stuff added.

EDIT: I misread what you needed :D silly me

Oh my, should I have been more clear? Let's use an example:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/oc2jhtdohtoq60k/tp_man.PNG?dl=0)

Look at the above row. That's how the young man is supposed to look like.
For the second row I took the man in blue tileset and applied the three palettes to him. Purple is almost right. Only the green on his right leg turned grey. The blond man, on the other hand, is totally different. That's because the colors are arranged completely differently for that palette in particular. And since the SNES version uses only one set of graphics, the colors need to be rearranged to be interchangeable.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: mziab on January 15, 2016, 04:07:37 pm
Interestingly enough he is never used in the Wonderswan version. He does make an appearance in one of the added missions of the GBA version. It makes me wonder whether there were plans to add additional content to the WSC remake at first. Romancing Saga had stuff added.

Oh my, should I have been more clear? Let's use an example:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/oc2jhtdohtoq60k/tp_man.PNG?dl=0)

Look at the above row. That's how the young man is supposed to look like.
For the second row I took the man in blue tileset and applied the three palettes to him. Purple is almost right. Only the green on his right leg turned grey. The blond man, on the other hand, is totally different. That's because the colors are arranged completely differently for that palette in particular. And since the SNES version uses only one set of graphics, the colors need to be rearranged to be interchangeable.

Couldn't this be done automatically, though? Something like: go through each pixel of the original image, get the RGB value, look up which color in the target palette it is, change the pixel to that color index. Of course it gets more complicated if the color we want isn't present in the target palette, but in theory you could whip up something like this pretty quick using PIL (http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/) for instance.

EDIT: Actually, there might be an even better way of doing this, that is by comparing the palettes themselves and creating a mapping based on that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 15, 2016, 04:45:51 pm
OK, I'm going to change three pixels to fix the blond guy's hair...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dh6hp5xix6855ox/tp_man2.PNG?dl=0)

What the?! Now the other two guys' hair is screwed up! ;)

The main goal is to rearrange the palettes. However: Some pixel work needs to be done: Note how the guys in blue and purple use some of the same colors in both face and hair? That won't be possible with the guy in red for obvious reasons. So the skin/hair/clothes colors need to be sorted out.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: mziab on January 15, 2016, 04:57:17 pm
Well, that throws a wrench in the works. Still, you never know until you try. An automated solution could help lessen the workload, even if you had to make some manual adjustments afterwards.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on January 15, 2016, 05:17:08 pm
I've been working on this:

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh189/koala_knight/Stuff/tp_red_edited_zpsxpbwpkhl.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/tp_red_edited_zpsxpbwpkhl.png.html)

What I did was add the sprites present only in the blue and purple sets to the red one.
And adapting them to the style of the red set since it is more detailed in the hair.
Once that is done I'll make new palettes for the blue and purple versions.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 16, 2016, 03:29:24 am
Excellent!
I'm looking forward to it! Looking at the chocobo I started to wonder: How does the original game handle them, since yellow and blue aren't interchangeable (one being for hair, the other for clothing).
Turns out they have their own dedicated palettes (one for yellow, white, black and red). I guess it's because they are handled as vehicles that appear on the world map?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 16, 2016, 11:47:48 am
Not positive about this, but I think they use a different palette in the world map than they use in locations. World map palette is shared with the enterprise, ship and the hovercraft.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 17, 2016, 06:00:23 am
I see. Just took a look at the world map palettes. The game loads all of the protagonist palettes, even though only one will ever be displayed at once. Hmm...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: justin3009 on January 17, 2016, 07:28:22 am
The best bet for PC palettes on the overworld then is knock out whatever routine loads ALL of their palettes and modify it so it checks which PC you currently have on the map and load their specific palette only in one RAM location (And have all the PC's palettes load that main area for it).  As long as there's never more than one PC at a time and it updates properly if you're able to swap them on the fly, it should work out just fine.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 17, 2016, 08:16:57 am
1-4: character palettes
5: enterprise/hovercraft/ship/chocobo
6: black chocobo
7: falcon
8: lunar whale
9-16: tileset (which is already 4bpp, and unless the world maps are different, tilesets use eight palettes)

Am I missing something?
The SNES certainly can handle all of these being 4bpp.
World map doesn't use dialogue box, remember.

There would be complications to loading one character palette at a time. FFIV has the R-button character display change function, so the palette reload would need to be shimmied into that routine. In addition to figuring out how you would fit that in, there's the potential for lag every time the player changes displayed character.
And you can't just get rid of the r-button function. Let's say you chose to make it so that only the character in the first slot is displayed, which would mean the player has to rearrange the party to change the displayed character manually. That's how FFVI does it. But in FFVI, any character in any slot can be in the front row or the back row. If I have a two-mage party and I want my displayed character to be Rydia, I'd have to put her up front and one of my fighters in the back. Furthermore, if Cecil isn't the displayed character, then an event runs that makes him the displayed character, then whichever slot he's in becomes the displayed slot. Not to mention the fact that you'd have to shimmy the palette load into that routine as well.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 17, 2016, 09:36:46 am
Thanks for checking, chillyfeez.

I have another idea. The game loads 8 palettes for the world map but only uses the first four (three for the moon). Some of these could be replaced with palettes for sprites. Shouldn't be much of a hassle.
The remake uses six palettes for the world map, so I'd like to reserve two for the world map overhaul...  ;)

January 21, 2016, 01:45:50 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
The way the remake handles grass-water transitions eats up lots of tiles. I created a temporary solution by cutting off bits. We'll see where things go from here.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/p7ecw24j1h1vwol/town4.PNG?dl=0)

I also went ahead and inserted one of Granville's downsampled portraits, just to show that it can be done:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/g2osycvm9cpcsen/portraits.png?dl=0)

A break from those town graphics was desperately needed, so I continued working on the house/town interior set, which is almost done. I should have a few screenshots soon...

------------------------

Edit:
Auto Merged, huh? New rule: No responses - no updates! ;P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 22, 2016, 03:16:01 am
So I did a palette-hack of Dark Knight Cecil, using colours drawn from the down-sampled PSP portrait. Would this be doable on the SNES?

(http://i.imgur.com/4xC8mwZ.png)

EDIT: I'd have posted the whole sheet, except for the part where the person(s) responsible for the sheet I used as a base fucked up when they inserted the victory pose—it uses an entirely different palette in that sheet. Thanks, Spriter's Resource.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 22, 2016, 03:54:06 am
So I did a palette-hack of Dark Knight Cecil, using colours drawn from the down-sampled PSP portrait. Would this be doable on the SNES?

(http://i.imgur.com/4xC8mwZ.png)
Sure, as long as you don't go beyond the 16 color limit. You really can't go wrong with simply altering the palettes...
The game doesn't do any palette sharing between characters in battle or stuff like that, which I believe VI does. The only thing you need to consider is that all characters have to use the same amount of skin colors (that would be 2 for the original models). That's because of the way poison status works - skin turns purple.

EDIT: I'd have posted the whole sheet, except for the part where the person(s) responsible for the sheet I used as a base fucked up when they inserted the victory pose—it uses an entirely different palette in that sheet. Thanks, Spriter's Resource.
That's why I extract everything myself. You never really know how sheets were put together and how careful the person was...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 22, 2016, 10:17:51 am
I'm less concerned about palette limitations than I am about the colour limitations imposed by the 16-bit limitation on colour choices, actually.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 22, 2016, 10:29:01 am
I'm less concerned about palette limitations than I am about the colour limitations imposed by the 16-bit limitation on colour choices, actually.

It's really not that bad. You can choose freely from a palette of 32,768 colors. That is significantly better than other 16-bit consoles like the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis (512 colors).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 22, 2016, 11:47:37 am
(http://i.imgur.com/QRsMi6B.png) (http://i.imgur.com/VAYdKyX.png) (http://i.imgur.com/kGkqkuj.png) (http://i.imgur.com/9EDrLYO.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/MqxMVhY.png)

Cain's palette-hack went a lot better. Have you thought about upgrading the field sprites from 16×16 to 16×24? I wouldn't be able to draw new sprites, unfortunately, but it'd be neat.

EDIT: I used the PSP battle sprites to recolour Paladin Cecil, which came out looking pretty good.

EDIT 2: I thought about doing Cid, too, but he ends up looking like a silver bullet. I don't know why the PSP version didn't use the DS version's portrait colours—Cid's portrait there actually fits the sprites.

EDIT 3: Child Lydia, hair and hair-piece from portrait, clothing brightened from PSP battle sprites to counteract the 'dulling' of her hair.

EDIT 4: And here's adult Lydia. If it's possible, I'd prefer to have the summon-sprite use a different palette from the rest to preserve the yellow glow.

EDIT 5: You get a palette-squish, and you get a palette-squish...everybody gets a palette-squish! (All four spritesheets are now 16-colour. May take some work to free up a colour for three of 'em for transparency, though.)

EDIT 6: Redid DK Cecil.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 22, 2016, 03:13:03 pm
I haven't really thought about it. It would seem to introduce lots of complications and there's plenty of work to do as it is...
Also: The Japanese-only mobile version already has re-sized overworld sprites. But finding resources concerning that version is a complete nightmare - especially if you don't know a word of Japanese. :-[

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8dgf7pxga93ter3/c_l1254769024_6.jpg?dl=0)

Are you thinking of creating a patch containing the new battle palettes? I could help since I already have all the addresses and such. What's your approach creating these new sprites? I hope you're not going pixel by pixel! >:D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 22, 2016, 04:19:03 pm
I copied the sprite dump from Spriter's Resource into the GIMP and switched to Indexed mode, which enables the GIMP's colormap dialog. From there it's just picking colours and then editing the palette. For Paladin Cecil's and Lydia's sheets I switched back and forth between RGB & Indexed in order to squash the palette down and help me isolate any lurking extraneous colours.

EDIT: Oh, hell. Final Fantasy Record Keeper has sprites for everybody but Cid and Yang (and adult Lydia). They do appear to adhere to the 16-colour and 16×24 dimensional limitations, however, so if I can do a 1:1 mapping, I'll recolour them.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 22, 2016, 04:42:58 pm
Personally I'm not too crazy for the Record Keeper sprites, but do whatever you'd like - more options can't hurt!
One warning, though: If you actually start making new sprites I would definitely recommend looking at the actual tilesets. They reuse elements. The walking animation, for example, only adds the walking legs to the standing idle graphics.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 22, 2016, 06:05:50 pm
On more mature reflection...I don't think it's worth it unless someone wants to put the effort into matching them with field sprites. Rosa'll be the last one I recolour the battle sprites for, and then I'll poke at field sprites.

If someone with Photoshop experience is watching the thread: pretty please recolour Cid's portrait to match his battle sprites?

Are you thinking of creating a patch containing the new battle palettes? I could help since I already have all the addresses and such.

I hadn't planned on it, but I would certainly be interested in doing so. Will need to write a tool to clamp 24-bit colour down to BGR565, though.

EDIT: Here's Rosa.

(http://i.imgur.com/t1PyRdx.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 23, 2016, 04:28:20 am
I hadn't planned on it, but I would certainly be interested in doing so. Will need to write a tool to clamp 24-bit colour down to BGR565, though.
Not really. Digisalt's SNES Palette Tools will insert any TileLayerPro palette into the ROM and do the necessary conversions.

http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/300/

Here's how I inserted the palette for the new Edward portrait above:

1. Get the colors with Pictures to color
2. Copy the values into a TLP palette via hex editor
3. Insert with SNES Palette Tools
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 23, 2016, 12:51:27 pm
Here's how I inserted the palette for the new Edward portrait above:

1. Get the colors with Pictures to color
2. Copy the values into a TLP palette via hex editor
3. Insert with SNES Palette Tools

That's not really all that helpful, but I can load up a TLP palette with the palettes.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 23, 2016, 05:42:57 pm
That's not really all that helpful, but I can load up a TLP palette with the palettes.
Should I do it for you? I have all the notes anyway and just doing it would probably be faster than typing everything out. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 23, 2016, 06:16:33 pm
Should I do it for you? I have all the notes anyway and just doing it would probably be faster than typing everything out. :P

That'd probably be best, yeah. (Will edit this post with a link to the TPL when I'm done.)

EDIT: http://fenrir.aerdan.org/ff4-gi.zip contains the TPL and a patch; the patch is necessary because I had to free up a colour for adult Lydia's skill sprite in order to retain the yellow glow. Palettes are, in order from the first: DK Cecil, Cain, child Lydia, Tella (skip; I'd thought about matching his hair to his portrait, though), Gilbert (skip), Rosa, Yang (skip), Palom (skip), Porom (skip), Paladin Cecil, Cid (skip), and adult Lydia. I may do Golbez later.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 24, 2016, 07:40:54 pm
I'm glad I had not started yet when I saw this. As if I had known that you couldn't sit still... ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 26, 2016, 02:33:42 am
I'm glad I had not started yet when I saw this. As if I had known that you couldn't sit still... ;)

Well, I saw an opportunity to contribute and then I jumped on it. ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/bHBfqAJ.png)

I did Golbez in two distinct tones; one uses his portrait colours (left), the other uses DK Cecil's battle sprites' grays (right). I've updated the TPL (http://fenrir.aerdan.org/ff4gi.tpl); both palettes come after adult Lydia's.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 26, 2016, 01:11:44 pm
I'm thinking about splitting the house set in two, giving the Black Chocobo Farm and Astro Tower their own. Would mean some more space for all the other maps...

A comparison of the Kaipo Inn 1F:

The original:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/hlks37torn0ah3i/house2.PNG?dl=0)

Tiles replaced:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ui8bvf284max41v/house3.PNG?dl=0)

Additional details added:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/e4egftce040p5nb/house4.PNG?dl=0)

The walls make all the difference I think.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 26, 2016, 05:07:56 pm
Night and day difference, really!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: justin3009 on January 26, 2016, 05:53:04 pm
That difference, holy hell that's SO much better!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 26, 2016, 08:29:18 pm
So the chocobo farm/astro tower tileset would use entirely separate graphics?
Or do you mean that the tiles unique to those locations would be exclusive to a new tileset that allows for the extra tile assignment needed for extra wall tiles, fancy windows, etc.?
Doesn't the town interior tileset already have several unused tiles? By default in FF4kster they appear as these weird blue shutter-like thingies?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 27, 2016, 06:41:43 am
So the chocobo farm/astro tower tileset would use entirely separate graphics?
Or do you mean that the tiles unique to those locations would be exclusive to a new tileset that allows for the extra tile assignment needed for extra wall tiles, fancy windows, etc.?
Doesn't the town interior tileset already have several unused tiles? By default in FF4kster they appear as these weird blue shutter-like thingies?

They would all use the same set of graphics. Astro Tower and Chocobo Farm would get their own Tile Arrangement maps, I really don't know how to call it. The in-between step where the 8x8 pixel tiles are arranged into 16x16 pixel building blocks. This:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/rulu7479wfioqn3/house5.PNG?dl=0)

These are the true limiting factors. If I associate the aforementioned locations with their own maps I can eliminate the telescope, chocobo food and such things from the main map, allowing for a more complete port.

What makes you think that the unused tiles would be enough for all the new stuff? ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 27, 2016, 09:43:17 am
OK, yeah, we're talking about the same thing. The confusion was in the absence of a formal nomenclature.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 27, 2016, 11:02:31 am
They would all use the same set of graphics. Astro Tower and Chocobo Farm would get their own Tile Arrangement maps, I really don't know how to call it. The in-between step where the 8x8 pixel tiles are arranged into 16x16 pixel building blocks.

That's just a tilemap... Which I know is confusing, since there are two definitions of 'tile' in play here, one of which is platform-dependent (the 8×8 tiles) and the other of which is the graphics proper (the 16×16 tiles).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on January 27, 2016, 03:10:14 pm
Wait, that minecart thing is full of chocobo food?? Guess that means my item shops have carts of feed in them for absolutely no reason.  :laugh:


Kickass porting work, btw! Nice to finally see some windows indoors (which I wish would have been there in the original to begin with)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SORASUNYU on January 29, 2016, 03:31:34 am
I'm thinking about splitting the house set in two, giving the Black Chocobo Farm and Astro Tower their own. Would mean some more space for all the other maps...

A comparison of the Kaipo Inn 1F:

Additional details added:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/e4egftce040p5nb/house4.PNG?dl=0)

The walls make all the difference I think.

Wait, the shadows are on the right of beds, and the windows are on the right of beds too. It's so strange because of the light effect. I think the shadows of the beds should be removed.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 29, 2016, 03:41:17 am
Are those even windows? Isn't there another room on the other side of that wall?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2016, 05:23:36 am
I wanted to do palette-hacking for the field sprites so they'd match the battle sprites & portraits, but I couldn't find them in the ROM in 3bpp or 4bpp. Any thoughts on where I should look?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 29, 2016, 07:38:54 am
I've been wondering myself what these are... French windows or cabinets?
They look just the same in the PSP version. Maybe the DS version can give us a clue?

I wanted to do palette-hacking for the field sprites so they'd match the battle sprites & portraits, but I couldn't find them in the ROM in 3bpp or 4bpp. Any thoughts on where I should look?

From Yousei's FFIV hacking document:
Code: [Select]
68200-6823F (0D8000-0D803F) Overworld Character Palette Data
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2016, 10:06:30 am
That's lovely, but I was hoping for the sprites, not the palettes; I suppose I could pull a hex editor out and experiment, though...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 29, 2016, 11:35:36 am
Oh, there you go:
Code: [Select]
D8200- (1B8000-      ) Overworld Character Graphic Data
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 29, 2016, 12:27:38 pm
I always assumed the Baron inn was supposed to be two floors.
Though that would be the only I sytance I can think of where a single map is used to show multiple floors. It just seems odd that the pub would be right there next to the sleeping area.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on January 29, 2016, 01:13:17 pm
I'm 80% sure Baron Inn is two floors judging how big the building looks from the outside.


Also, just thought of something: when I look at the House Interior Tileset in FF4kster I notice there are 3 copies of the animated candle on the wall tile (with only one of them being different [a Walk Behind type tile]).

Is it possible to set the properties of two of them to be different tiles (since I only have need for the walk behind one) and if so, would I only be able to change them to be one of the other animated tiles?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2016, 02:52:47 pm
Uhhh. That's the Kaipo inn, you boobs. Which is, yes, two floors.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 29, 2016, 04:21:55 pm
It's indeed Kaipo, Baron Inn has a carpet under the beds and a higher wall.
Now that I think about it: The house in Village Mist with the secret passage to the Change Rod also has two floors on the same screen.
I never actually thought of Baron as having two floors. The stairs connecting the lower and upper parts are very tiny (a single tile in height)...

Also, just thought of something: when I look at the House Interior Tileset in FF4kster I notice there are 3 copies of the animated candle on the wall tile (with only one of them being different [a Walk Behind type tile]).

Is it possible to set the properties of two of them to be different tiles (since I only have need for the walk behind one) and if so, would I only be able to change them to be one of the other animated tiles?

The two additional candles are redundant, I did replace them with other stuff.
You can pretty much change everything into whatever you like.
Are you familiar with the Tile Properties Tables (the ones that define tiles as walkable/non-walkable/triggers etc.)? I have no idea whether it was ever explained on Slick.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2016, 04:40:22 pm
Oh, there you go:
Code: [Select]
D8200- (1B8000-      ) Overworld Character Graphic Data

Next question is, how do I actually view this? I've poked with TLP and Tile Molester Mod, and I've had no luck getting anything proper-looking in either one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 29, 2016, 05:54:30 pm
Next question is, how do I actually view this? I've poked with TLP and Tile Molester Mod, and I've had no luck getting anything proper-looking in either one.

Yousei's document is based on a headered ROM. Maybe yours is unheadered? Try 0D8000 (3bpp) instead.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2016, 07:20:04 pm
I figured it out, finally. And we may have a problem; DK Cecil, Cain, Yang, Cid, Edge, and Fusuya all use the same field palette, if my limited dicking around is any judge. Paladin Cecil has his own, of course, and both versions of Lydia share one with Palom and Porom, and Gilbert, Rosa, and Tella use one. Golbez has his own, of course, but he never appears as a PC so it doesn't matter.

If you don't want to tweak the colours on the palettes, you could conceivably squish them all onto one 4bpp palette. (There are a total of fifteen colours across the four PC field sprite palettes, with the Rosa/Gilbert/Tella palette being the only one where half of it is unique; the other three share orange and a shade of blue, and all four use transparent, black, and two skin tones in the same slots.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 30, 2016, 05:07:19 am
I did the 4bpp overworld sprites hacking some time ago, actually. The only reason I stopped working on townspeople is that I became aware of the necessary redoing of the palette swaps. I wasn't in the mood for that.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f471ysqqlu9g79k/owsprites.png?dl=0)

Maybe Vanya comes up with something. You can always adjust the palettes from there, I'd suggest.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 30, 2016, 12:24:52 pm
You should write a tutorial or make some video about your work it's fascinating!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on January 30, 2016, 06:14:56 pm
I did the 4bpp overworld sprites hacking some time ago, actually. The only reason I stopped working on townspeople is that I became aware of the necessary redoing of the palette swaps. I wasn't in the mood for that.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f471ysqqlu9g79k/owsprites.png?dl=0)

Maybe Vanya comes up with something. You can always adjust the palettes from there, I'd suggest.

I'll have it done by Monday! :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on January 31, 2016, 10:15:40 am
You should write a tutorial or make some video about your work it's fascinating!

Thanks. It's really quite simple once you understand the basics of copying graphics into VRAM. I think I'm going to write down how to display a 16-color enemy as a starting point.

I'll have it done by Monday! :D

Nice! Don't rush yourself. It's not like this project is nearing completion anytime soon... :angel:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on February 03, 2016, 12:28:18 am
OK.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: TheChristoph on February 03, 2016, 10:38:12 pm
I'm mainly a lurker but I have to say that this looks gorgeous and I wish you luck in this project. Maybe one day FFV will get some similar love. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on February 04, 2016, 04:46:14 am
Final Fantasy V already has SNES-level graphics for the most part. The battle backgrounds could stand to be replaced, though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 04, 2016, 09:49:04 am
I'm mainly a lurker but I have to say that this looks gorgeous and I wish you luck in this project. Maybe one day FFV will get some similar love. :)

Thanks! I'm always glad to hear that other people are interested in this as well. :)

Final Fantasy V already has SNES-level graphics for the most part. The battle backgrounds could stand to be replaced, though.

Final Fantasy V is an interesting case. If I'm not mistaken the GBA version is mostly the same in terms of graphics, except for menus and battle backgrounds. What a difference these alone make... I might as well take a look once I figured the ones of IV out completely.

Meanwhile I decided to create dedicated tilemaps for each town, so I can remake them as faithfully as possible. Baron has more variation in grass and trees now. Also there are road border tiles and doorsteps (or whatever they'd be called).

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/klc2fq4uyem82pj/town5.PNG?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: MasterGwonam on February 04, 2016, 04:03:56 pm
Looking sexy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on February 04, 2016, 06:40:09 pm
So I've been taking a stab at modifying the palettes for 4bpp (assuming it's feasible to have one palette per party member), and...I have to say, I really don't like the GBA field sprites' colours. They're too cartoonish. On the other hand, I redrew one of Lydia's sprites to showcase what I was going to do with her (forgot to save before scheduling a reboot, so the rest of my work thus far needs to be redone—oops), and I've had one complaint that it was too low-contrast. Here's the comparison image I made:

(http://i.imgur.com/LBk4LRQ.png)

(I'm going to have to rip the rest of her sprites from FF4A, though, because the Spriter's Resource 'rip' once again has issues—namely, omitting one of the two 'waving' sprites.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 04, 2016, 09:51:36 pm
The WSC ones are a tad less bright, compared to the GBA version (but not that much).
I'll have to rain on your parade a bit here: One palette per party member isn't gonna work, the remake shares palettes among various party members the same way the original does. I'm rather grateful for it - anything else wouldn't be portable! ;D

I ripped the Wonderswan sprites some time ago myself. I don't trust anyone's rips! :police:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sxtx92qrlpdabgt/100000.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/v00j2iiwy5svoaz/100020.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f6pkxnqjhnp2phv/100040.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/303ed40drqe2shk/100060.bmp?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on February 04, 2016, 10:07:15 pm
Well, hell. I think I despise whoever did the WSC sprites. Those are some of the dirtiest sprites I've seen ever. I think in that case I'll try to munge them into two 4bpp palettes, then, using the SNES sprites (and redrawing Lydia based on her WSC sprites because I think they're an improvement over the SNES version.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: MasterGwonam on February 05, 2016, 03:30:19 am
The WSC ones are a tad less bright, compared to the GBA version (but not that much).
I'll have to rain on your parade a bit here: One palette per party member isn't gonna work, the remake shares palettes among various party members the same way the original does. I'm rather grateful for it - anything else wouldn't be portable! ;D

I ripped the Wonderswan sprites some time ago myself. I don't trust anyone's rips! :police:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sxtx92qrlpdabgt/100000.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/v00j2iiwy5svoaz/100020.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f6pkxnqjhnp2phv/100040.bmp?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/303ed40drqe2shk/100060.bmp?dl=0)

That's well done. Matches the rest of your work.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on February 05, 2016, 02:22:48 pm
Those character sprites look pretty epic! Especially FuSoYa's since his bear has more depth now.

Though there's one thing that bugs the shit out of me. It has nothing to do with your porting,
(in fact I'm consistently amazed by your porting progress) but man that DK Cecil sprite bugs the hell out of me.

I mean, why did Square decide to turn him purple and (finally) put some horns on his helmet, while still not having him look like his portrait OR battle sprite? Granted, the WSC/GBA version of him looks closer to his portrait, and you can actually tell he's wearing his helm with the face part up, but I'm sure they still have him in fish-fin armor during battle.  ;)

Those Palom and Porom sprites look AMAZING. Never thought I'd see them not look like fat Velmas! Really makes me want to edit the Fat Velmas in my project so they look closer to your WSC rips.  :)

Even Yang looks better! In the SNES version he practically looks like a naked dude since almost his whole sprite was some color of orange. For my project I recolored him blue after a friend of mine kept asking why a naked genie was in my party lmfao. But yeah, awesome Yang!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 05, 2016, 09:06:03 pm
I mean, why did Square decide to turn him purple and (finally) put some horns on his helmet, while still not having him look like his portrait OR battle sprite? Granted, the WSC/GBA version of him looks closer to his portrait, and you can actually tell he's wearing his helm with the face part up, but I'm sure they still have him in fish-fin armor during battle.  ;)

You know, it's interesting. The way the palettes are shared is identical to the original. Except for one change: They made DK Cecil share Paladin Cecil's palette, as you noticed. If you just port stuff over straight and leave Cecil the way the original handles things you get this:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/xulpnlg4jpxzkrf/owsprites2.png?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on February 08, 2016, 06:11:01 pm
Seeing him in shades of blues looks a lot more badass than shades of purple! Looks awesome like that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 17, 2016, 02:54:32 pm
I took a look at the spritesheets from "All the Bravest" some time ago and found that their BlackCat sprite (right) is superior to the WSC/GBA one (left).

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/yi6qx0j7qwx7jrr/enemy_BlackCat.PNG?dl=0)

All we need now is a new Palette for the Panther swap. Anyone feel inspired? ;D

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/rlg1oas5emsfld6/enemy_Panther.PNG?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on February 17, 2016, 05:56:47 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/w453iQz.png)

How's this look?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Madsiur on February 17, 2016, 09:42:10 pm
I've been lurking your project for a while. It's nice to see other people helping and this is probably the FFIV improvement project I've been waiting the most for. If it eventually serve as a base for complete hacks will be pretty awesome as well. Well if I ever do a FFIV hack I'll include this for sure. Keep up the excellent work!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 18, 2016, 11:41:41 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/w453iQz.png)

How's this look?

Oh, that was quick - unlike my response! :angel:
Nice, how did you do it? Did you work from the original Panther palette or adjust the BlackCat one somehow?

I've been lurking your project for a while. It's nice to see other people helping and this is probably the FFIV improvement project I've been waiting the most for. If it eventually serve as a base for complete hacks will be pretty awesome as well. Well if I ever do a FFIV hack I'll include this for sure. Keep up the excellent work!

Yes, I hope this will be possible. If someone wants to integrate the finished hack into their own tools/editor I could always provide the necessary info.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on February 18, 2016, 11:50:25 pm
Thanks! It took some work, actually. I used the Record Keeper sprite as a base, then selected different colors of the palette at a time and messed around with the Color Balance and Hue settings in GIMP until I got something that was reasonably close to the SNES graphic.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 19, 2016, 11:09:57 pm
Thanks! It took some work, actually. I used the Record Keeper sprite as a base, then selected different colors of the palette at a time and messed around with the Color Balance and Hue settings in GIMP until I got something that was reasonably close to the SNES graphic.

For clarification: Did you mean "All the Bravest" when you wrote "Record Keeper"? I looked at Record Keeper sprites at some point and didn't see anything new concerning FFIV enemy graphics. Has that changed?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Midna on February 20, 2016, 09:11:28 am
Yeah, I did mean All the Bravest. I guess that's one good thing to come from that pile of crap. : P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 20, 2016, 04:19:00 pm
Yeah, I did mean All the Bravest. I guess that's one good thing to come from that pile of crap. : P

Indeed! ;)


I have a question for you guys. You know there are hidden treasures in the bushes of Baron Town. If I keep these exactly where they are I will have to create two additional bush border trigger map tiles (what a word salad!). That's how the game works.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/a9ss08tzg5di82g/town6.PNG?dl=0)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2gi3i3gvbvp5t4s/town7.PNG?dl=0)

If I however move them one down and to the right, respectively, I can use the standard one and use the two map tiles for something else to get the map closer to the remake.
So what's more important - the graphics being as close as possible or maintaining exact positions of these treasures?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on February 20, 2016, 04:31:41 pm
Tough call...
If we look at this as a standalone hack of FFIV then I would say moving them would be fine.
As the basis for other hacks, it may be handy to have the ability to put treasures at the edge of a grass patch. Maybe. Although it's a small enough detail that that ability probably would not be missed much.
Yeah, I say move 'em in.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 21, 2016, 11:46:54 am
Tough call...
If we look at this as a standalone hack of FFIV then I would say moving them would be fine.
As the basis for other hacks, it may be handy to have the ability to put treasures at the edge of a grass patch. Maybe. Although it's a small enough detail that that ability probably would not be missed much.
Yeah, I say move 'em in.

I tend towards moving them myself. Keep in mind: There's going to be more than one town tileset, so you'd have options when creating a custom town.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on February 22, 2016, 06:29:18 pm
I say move them.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 22, 2016, 09:27:34 pm
Moving them seems the best idea for this, especially if tile room is already limited.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 03, 2016, 11:01:35 am
Thanks for the feedback, guys. :)

So this is where we stand with Baron Town:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/35wew9w20c56mue/town8.PNG?dl=0)

There's one map tile left, but I will move on for now for a few reasons...

- Some slight pixel editing should be done due to the different ways the versions handle water
- It makes sense to work on other towns before finalizing anything, to guarantee some consistency
- If I have to look at Baron Town & town tiles for another minute I'm going to throw up!

Time to zip this thing and do something else. If anyone wants to get picky, feel free. 8)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Grimoire LD on March 03, 2016, 04:04:20 pm
That looks gorgeous! And this is now completely on the SNES? It shows what a little bit of extra work and shine can do for an old game. I love the original FFIV, but I can't deny that some of its tile choices are muddy or plain. That  jumps out to me a lot more than the original's graphics did.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on March 03, 2016, 09:50:28 pm
OK, here's my little bit of nitpicky: the top right corner of Cid's house seems to have missed some shading detail. It's Baron's only instance of "top right building corner in front of wall," so easy to overlook. But it definitely doesn't match the other buildings' top right corners, or the other corners of Cid's house for that matter.

Other than that, I second everything Grimoire said.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: DackR on March 04, 2016, 02:35:26 am
First, I just want to complement you on your hard work. Not a lot of people can stand to do such a tedious job. So you are one in a million, buddy. Keep it up!

the top right corner of Cid's house seems to have missed some shading detail. It's Baron's only instance of "top right building corner in front of wall," so easy to overlook. But it definitely doesn't match the other buildings' top right corners, or the other corners of Cid's house for that matter.

I guess I don't see the shading on the top-right corner of cid's house as being wrong. It seems to match the shadows being cast by the other buildings to me. Maybe if you were to highlight exactly what is wrong, I may see it, but right now it looks perfect to me. Never mind, I see it now. The inner top-right corner shading is different than other buildings for sure.

The only "strange" place I see is where buildings have a top-right corner next to the grass tiles. It seems like the pattern doesn't quite match the adjacent tiles.

This is especially pronounced in the case of the water and grass tiles being adjacent to one of the building top-right corners. I can understand not wanting to make a special tile to handle the grass-water-corner-- especially if the pallete is restrictive, but maybe just making the grass blend better would be good enough.  :thumbsup:

I can only imagine how much better it would have been to play this game with these graphics when I was playing it for the first time.... Probably would have felt similar to the first time I played Chrono Trigger as a child. Sigh... Good times.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 04, 2016, 02:48:33 pm
That looks gorgeous! And this is now completely on the SNES? It shows what a little bit of extra work and shine can do for an old game. I love the original FFIV, but I can't deny that some of its tile choices are muddy or plain. That  jumps out to me a lot more than the original's graphics did.

I guess we are lucky that the game was remade for the Wonderswan first. As a result it doesn't really go beyond what is technically possible on the SNES. The real limiting factor is the game engine itself. The only way to get the graphics as close as this is to give Baron its own dedicated tile map, as I said.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/34i50wjhoiv7y1c/town9.PNG?dl=0)

OK, here's my little bit of nitpicky: the top right corner of Cid's house seems to have missed some shading detail. It's Baron's only instance of "top right building corner in front of wall," so easy to overlook. But it definitely doesn't match the other buildings' top right corners, or the other corners of Cid's house for that matter.

Other than that, I second everything Grimoire said.
The only "strange" place I see is where buildings have a top-right corner next to the grass tiles. It seems like the pattern doesn't quite match the adjacent tiles.

This is especially pronounced in the case of the water and grass tiles being adjacent to one of the building top-right corners. I can understand not wanting to make a special tile to handle the grass-water-corner-- especially if the pallete is restrictive, but maybe just making the grass blend better would be good enough.  :thumbsup:

You guys have keen eyes! Those two items are on my list of concerns as well. Let me point out that these are not the result of poor porting or simplification. It's what things look like in the remake.

Top right corner of Cid's house: At first I thought this was the result of palette limitations, but turns out that's not the case at all. No idea why it's different from all the others. I can change it to look like the others.

Top right corner next to the grass tiles: It's actually both sides. If you look closely you'll notice that they're mirrored. I agree that the grass part kinda sticks out, especially the two horizontal lines at the top. Why they didn't just take part of the grass tile as they did for the walls, I don't know. There are only three shades of green available, but it can be done. I gave it a try and copied the standard grass tile corner over, but I had to keep the top three pixels dark. Otherwise the water transition looks even less smooth, as DackR noted.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/nxndg8opovgsf1b/town10.PNG?dl=0)

Better? Thanks for both the suggestions and encouragements so far! :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: DackR on March 04, 2016, 03:49:14 pm
Beautiful. Above and beyond expectation. Love it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on March 04, 2016, 10:56:44 pm
Yeah, both adjustments look great.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Mari42 on March 13, 2016, 12:21:40 am
I love how that was replaced from GBA with all the images I see from the previous post.  I looks pretty nice. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 15, 2016, 10:35:18 am
I love how that was replaced from GBA with all the images I see from the previous post.  I looks pretty nice. :)
Thanks! :)

Currently I'm working on the crystal room tileset. The basic changes are not as dramatic here, the real improvement is in the shadows and additional floor tiles that come next.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/cvq9e1b473dbcbu/crystalroom.PNG?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Mari42 on March 15, 2016, 05:16:49 pm
I might make a video for this one until you release this one sooner or later, because I love how you make that similar details to it. Are you going to include the player to dash as well?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 18, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
I might make a video for this one until you release this one sooner or later, because I love how make that similar details to it. Are you going to include the player to dash as well?

I think chillyfeez released his own dash patch already. It should work in combination with this one, as long as you apply it first. Whether I would like to integrate it into this patch at some point, I'm not sure. Currently the focus is on updating the graphics, not necessarily the game mechanics. We'll see where this goes.

Something else: Those of you who know both versions should be aware that certain enemies have been shrunk to fit the smaller handheld screen. None of these ever made it back to their original size (even in the Wii version). I always felt that it would be nice to see them restored to their original size with the improved palettes. So I've been sketching a bit:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9u0g8jurtjlk0v4/enemy_Naga.PNG?dl=0)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on March 18, 2016, 08:23:54 pm
I think chillyfeez released his own dash patch already. It should work in combination with this one, as long as you apply it first. Whether I would like to integrate it into this patch at some point, I'm not sure. Currently the focus is on updating the graphics, not necessarily the game mechanics. We'll see where this goes.
Yup, User Options (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2232/) is a patch I made that adds some gameplay functionality to FFIV without affecting any other aspect of the game. There is some custom assembly, but I tried to keep it minimally invasive. The dash function is a toggle, not a hold-to-dash. Long story short, I tried that and it never came out quite right.

Quote
Something else: Those of you who know both versions should be aware that certain enemies have been shrunk to fit the smaller handheld screen. None of these ever made it back to their original size (even in the Wii version). I always felt that it would be nice to see them restored to their original size with the improved palettes. So I've been sketching a bit:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9u0g8jurtjlk0v4/enemy_Naga.PNG?dl=0)

Thoughts?
The one in the middle is your edit, right? Looks great. Probably good to have them back to their original sizes, although the smaller sizes could allow those monsters to be placed into more diverse encounter arrangements... But I don't know if that's really a big deal. Of course, I imagine reverting the size back means a buttload more work for you...
On a somewhat related note, I don't think I ever realized that thee Naga's head actually looks like a man's head with long hair...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Grimoire LD on March 18, 2016, 11:57:53 pm
That is difficult to say... Like Chillyfeez I like the idea of having more enemies available for encounters due to space, but at the same time the larger they are the more detailed they are. I'll have to leave this vote to others. They both seem like really good options.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 20, 2016, 11:28:39 am
I wonder if a closer look at the PSX port would yield usable results. That one has a dash function doesn't it? And it's basically running the SNES version code. Maybe Gemini could help...

And, yes, the middle one is mine. One of the problems is that the shrunk enemies have special sizes, that don't quite fit in the existing ones. I already expanded the enemy size table and included the new ones. But then status effects started misbehaving. The egg looked weird when it had a Naga in it and the hatching animation wasn't placed correctly either. I wasn't sure wether I wanted to redo the enemies anyway, so I stopped working on that for the time being.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: CourtlyHades296 on March 30, 2016, 10:28:03 pm
Wow. That's looking amazing so far. Can't wait to play it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: zfreeman on March 30, 2016, 11:13:58 pm
I hate grinding, so the more enemies to slaughter, the better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on March 31, 2016, 08:48:28 pm
Thanks!

I inserted the additional floor tiles and some other details.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/66xsb3fqfd2s2ps/crystalroom2.PNG?dl=0)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: zfreeman on April 04, 2016, 12:20:40 am
Any thoughts on the new Un-J2e translation?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on April 04, 2016, 01:03:15 am
Any thoughts on the new Un-J2e translation?
Are you referring to Project II, Namingway Edition, or some other project I've not yet heard of?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Chronosplit on April 04, 2016, 07:30:30 am
Are you referring to Project II, Namingway Edition, or some other project I've not yet heard of?
I'm pretty sure he's referring to Spooniest's addendum to J2e.

I haven't played yet, but it definitely looks worth a spin.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Spooniest on April 04, 2016, 09:15:37 am
J2Eviscerate's based on the Japanese version. So if this is a project that depends on the rom data being where it is in the US version, then they are probably not compatible.

On the other hand, if the graphical data is identical in the US and JP versions, then they might be compatible.

I have 0% chance of knowing which is the case.

edit: Upon actually buckling down and reading the thread a little (I know, doin' hard work), I notice that Gedankenschild is planning to do separate patches for the US and JP versions.

So who knows?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on April 04, 2016, 10:04:05 am
In terms of code the US and Japanese version only have very few differences. Easy Type moves things around a bit more. But the differences are very easy to keep track of. A few basic hex searches even do the trick.
As long as a patch doesn't mess mess with graphics loading code etc there should be no problem. My goal was always to keep it as compatible as possible. I also stay away from the few areas in the ROM with free space, because I know others like to use them for their hacks.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: octorox on September 15, 2017, 03:54:22 pm
I know the topic has been dormant for a little while but I just wanted to say that I hope you continue your work because it looks incredible! I'd love to pair this with the Namingway edition.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 26, 2017, 11:00:59 am
Time for an update!

I've answered some questions via direct messages, but it's about time I update this one publicly. Sorry for not responding earlier, octorox. I was browsing the "Personal Projects" section somewhat regularly, thinking I would catch it if my own thread got bumped. Obviously I didn't...

So shortly after my last message here I suffered hard drive failure and temporarily lost some of the stuff I had been working on. Not too much, since I was at least smart enough to regularly copy my files to a backup USB stick. I was pissed none the less, resulting in me taking a break from the project. I was able to boot the old HDD one last time since and recover everything. :D

Recently I've been rewriting pretty much the entire code since my understanding of how it all works has improved. Instead of putting endless amounts of JSLs everywhere I'm now rewriting/optimizing the existing loading routines. It's nice to know the hack is at least somewhat professional under the surface. ;D

The downside is that this type of work really doesn't result in screenshots to show off, so I had no motivation to update here.

I don't think I've shared Lunar Core stuff though, which I did do recently...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8t7az2tt8o5o7j0/lunarcore.png?dl=0)

I wanna say thank you to everyone I've seen asking about this and talking about it. It certainly is nice to know other people are interested. I did assume most people would go "just play one of the remakes". ::)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on December 26, 2017, 11:31:45 am
Looks great. I love the shadowed effect created by the use of multiple floor tiles.
Glad to see you're still working on this, too!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on December 26, 2017, 03:21:13 pm
Those shots look fantastic!
The work you are doing is very worthwhile, don't doubt that. There is something to be said for being able to implement these sorts of improvements in the original versions.

And even if you don't have screen shots to share feel free to show off your code, too. You'd be surprised how many of us here would be interested to see that sort of thing. Plus if there is an issue with your code someone might catch it and save you some trouble down the line. And moreover, they can be good examples for other coders that are just starting out.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 26, 2017, 03:52:24 pm
Thanks guys! :)

It's nice to see you as well, chillyfeez. I noticed you also took a break from Slick.

I would like to write about how the whole upgrading to 4bpp thing works, because it's actually quite simple and a few people asked for it. The main problem is that I know what to do but can't quite explain it in terms of having the right terminology. Though some things I've read recently helped, so maybe at some point...

I might also need some input when it comes to battle backgrounds, so that will turn into a discussion (hopefully) anyway.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on December 29, 2017, 03:53:59 am
As long as you could write it and add some pratical examples i would LOVE to read it! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Mugi on December 29, 2017, 04:03:27 am
agreed.

if it really is "that simple" as you nicely put it, maybe even a complete idiot like me could get something done.
there's 2 games that immediately pop into my mind i would like to mess with :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on January 29, 2019, 05:47:54 am
Just dropping here to show my appreciation on the project. Hope it's progressing!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Arty on January 29, 2019, 09:02:36 pm
Has indeed been a few years since the last update, this looks really great and I hope it wasn't shelved
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 29, 2019, 10:47:03 pm
This has been released.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3753/
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Arty on January 30, 2019, 08:44:19 pm
This has been released.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3753/
That appears to just be enemy sprites. This project was set to update tilesets, player sprites, and battle backgrounds if I'm reading it correctly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: chillyfeez on January 30, 2019, 10:56:41 pm
Oh, well, Gedankenschild was last active on RHDN in August, so I'd be surprised to hear he's working on this currently.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 04, 2019, 11:00:52 am
Hey guys,

Glad to see there is still interest in the project.
I am indeed not currently working on it, but it's not because I don't want to.
2018 was a pretty bad year for me. I spent quite some time in the hospital and was pretty much bedridden for most of it. I'm not dying or anything, just recovering veeerry slowly (hopefully).
Looking forward to getting back into my projects, actually...
I've been reading the site regularly, just wasn't logged in.  :angel:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 04, 2019, 01:37:53 pm
Hey guys,

Glad to see there is still interest in the project.
I am indeed not currently working on it, but it's not because I don't want to.
2018 was a pretty bad year for me. I spent quite some time in the hospital and was pretty much bedridden for most of it. I'm not dying or anything, just recovering veeerry slowly (hopefully).
Looking forward to getting back into my projects, actually...
I've been reading the site regularly, just wasn't logged in.  :angel:

Glad to hear that you are okay! I hope you recover fully from whatever it is.

Also, the project looks great so far. I've used it on one of my playthroughs of Namingway Edition and I'm eager to see it completed!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Arty on February 04, 2019, 02:20:30 pm
Hey guys,

Glad to see there is still interest in the project.
I am indeed not currently working on it, but it's not because I don't want to.
2018 was a pretty bad year for me. I spent quite some time in the hospital and was pretty much bedridden for most of it. I'm not dying or anything, just recovering veeerry slowly (hopefully).
Looking forward to getting back into my projects, actually...
I've been reading the site regularly, just wasn't logged in.  :angel:

Oh man, well don't feel pressured! Take as much time to recover as you need, and I hope 2019 is a better year for you 💚
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Vanya on February 04, 2019, 02:27:43 pm
Wow. I thought I had a bad year. Feel better man!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on February 06, 2019, 07:03:57 am
Thanks everyone!

Glad to hear about your playthrough, Rodimus Primal. I always hoped to maintain compatibility with other hacks as much as possible.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: CourtlyHades296 on February 09, 2019, 09:56:08 am
I am willing to test this hack with Canoe (the SNES Classic Edition's emulator).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on February 13, 2019, 01:50:32 pm
This is great and awesome work on this!! :D
I tried to see if it would be possible to incorporate this to my FF4 Ultima hack but unfortunately, my silly world map edits use the same spaces as your graphical updates so it doesn't work...  :(

Otherwise this is looking great!
Keep up the great work!!  :thumbsup: :beer:

8-bit fan
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Gedankenschild on April 09, 2019, 11:30:32 am
This is great and awesome work on this!! :D
I tried to see if it would be possible to incorporate this to my FF4 Ultima hack but unfortunately, my silly world map edits use the same spaces as your graphical updates so it doesn't work...  :(

Otherwise this is looking great!
Keep up the great work!!  :thumbsup: :beer:

8-bit fan

Thanks a lot! It's too bad there's a conflict between our patches. It really shouldn't be too much of an obstacle to move something around. I could check my asm and provide a way. I see you also made a few palette changes to enemies. Those would have to be redone as well, obviously...

I am willing to test this hack with Canoe (the SNES Classic Edition's emulator).

Might be interesting to see if there is any difference between this and the unpatched version. I wouldn't expect it though since there's nothing particularly special going on in terms of code.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: Spooniest on May 17, 2019, 09:22:33 pm
Sorry to hear about your enforced bedtime. Hospitals are suckish.

Hope you get to working on it sometime. I'd be quite interested to play such a mod.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: azidahaka on May 21, 2019, 05:33:58 am
Hey guys,

Glad to see there is still interest in the project.
I am indeed not currently working on it, but it's not because I don't want to.
2018 was a pretty bad year for me. I spent quite some time in the hospital and was pretty much bedridden for most of it. I'm not dying or anything, just recovering veeerry slowly (hopefully).
Looking forward to getting back into my projects, actually...
I've been reading the site regularly, just wasn't logged in.  :angel:

Sorry for your issues! Hope things will settle down!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV Graphics Update (SNES)
Post by: CourtlyHades296 on September 12, 2019, 06:40:21 pm
The GBA port looks great, but has tons of glitches. I would love to use this patch to have the original HardType gameplay and GBA Graphics.