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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: xander on December 12, 2013, 06:00:17 pm

Title: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: xander on December 12, 2013, 06:00:17 pm
Anyone else try this?or have any thoughts like "they should have released IX before VIII"?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Isao Kronos on December 13, 2013, 01:54:15 am
except there's no pc version of ix
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Gemini on December 14, 2013, 07:02:36 am
They are simply rehashing the original release with Aali's OpenGL "driver", so yeah, a FFIX release would be quite impossible to see on Steam or on anything different from the original console (unless it's done via emulation, of course).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Lilinda on December 14, 2013, 10:42:43 am
Ah, FF8. All of the early FF trappings and none of the quality.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: BRPXQZME on December 14, 2013, 11:13:23 am
Does every thread about this game really have to go there? :-\
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: xander on December 14, 2013, 04:34:51 pm
This whole "Aali's OpenGL driver" is confusing. I mean did Aali create this himself and square used his driver to put FFVIII to pc or did square make the driver,Aali modified it and since its squares they were able to use it? Im confused because if Aali made it wouldnt it be illegal for them to use it to create a game or wouldnt square be smart/capable enought to make thier own driver to port the games over?

But ya i would love to see FFIX on pc. Would be nice to have all 3 games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Lilinda on December 14, 2013, 05:17:49 pm
Does every thread about this game really have to go there? :-\

According to UN Resolution 34,

yes.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: BRPXQZME on December 14, 2013, 05:44:24 pm
I do not recognize the authority of the Unamiable Nabobs!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Gemini on December 14, 2013, 08:34:56 pm
This whole "Aali's OpenGL driver" is confusing. I mean did Aali create this himself and square used his driver to put FFVIII to pc or did square make the driver,Aali modified it and since its squares they were able to use it? Im confused because if Aali made it wouldnt it be illegal for them to use it to create a game or wouldnt square be smart/capable enought to make thier own driver to port the games over?
If I got this one correctly, Square bought the whole thing from Aali and added some improvements, at least for FFVII. OGG music support (with proper loops in the latest patches) should be among those extra feats, along with the achievements, cloud, and stat boost.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: MisterJones on December 15, 2013, 12:20:18 pm
This whole "Aali's OpenGL driver" is confusing. I mean did Aali create this himself and square used his driver to put FFVIII to pc or did square make the driver,Aali modified it and since its squares they were able to use it? Im confused because if Aali made it wouldnt it be illegal for them to use it to create a game or wouldnt square be smart/capable enought to make thier own driver to port the games over?

But ya i would love to see FFIX on pc. Would be nice to have all 3 games.

Games had already been ported to PC a few decades ago, but were outright mediocre in terms of music and shit. Someone made a custom driver to put decent music on em and other shit, square sorta bought em and now rerelased their ports with a better quality.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Jorpho on December 15, 2013, 03:12:51 pm
I remember hearing rumors that a PC port of FFIX was finished and all ready to go, but ended up just being stuck in a drawer somewhere.  Apparently the engines of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX (and Parasite Eve 1 and 2) are very similar to each other, so it sounds feasible.

I wasn't previously aware that Aali had made another driver for FFVIII.  It was my understanding that the PC port of FFVIII was put together a little better than the PC port of FFVII, such that it was unnecessary.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: MarkGrass on December 15, 2013, 03:39:42 pm
This whole "Aali's OpenGL driver" is confusing. I mean did Aali create this himself and square used his driver to put FFVIII to pc or did square make the driver,Aali modified it and since its squares they were able to use it? Im confused because if Aali made it wouldnt it be illegal for them to use it to create a game or wouldnt square be smart/capable enought to make thier own driver to port the games over?

But ya i would love to see FFIX on pc. Would be nice to have all 3 games.

I can't speak for the video driver/patch, but it was confirmed that they outright used hcs64's vgmstream for audio playback, initially giving absolutely no mention/credit to hcs and the many people who developed the vgmstream music code. Specifically, the developers of this port encoded the original MIDI data to OGG streams, setup loop points and used vgmstream to utilize the audio stream.

Once it was brought to their attention (in other words, once they were 'found out'), they released a patch which gave credit to hcs and vgmstream developers, mentioned in a text file.

Furthermore, it was reveled that this rerelease simply uses the original EXE inside of a frontend-type EXE (where the wrapper governs the original).

Basically, a lazy port-of-a-port to cash in on the brand name.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Bregalad on December 15, 2013, 03:43:37 pm
Having finished both (as well as played their PS1 counterpars to death) I can confirm that the PC version of FF8 was better ported. There is no need for any patches, it just works out of the box. And unlike FF7, the resolution is higher (it actually DOES use the increased resolution from the PC for sprites), the character portraits also use the increased resolution for more details. The videos are in high-res too, in other words they look better than their PS1 coutnerparts.

FF7 on the other hands needs quite a few patches to work, and a few other patches to avoid crashes at specific points. The videoes are horrible, basically it's a re-encoding of videoes recorded from a PS1 with analog noise in top of them (no joke). You need some kind of external XG syntesizer for the music, if you have one you'll get music of amazing quality, if you have none then you get something much worse than on PS1.

On FF8 you get music much worse than PS1 no matter what you do. But that's the only part that was poorly ported.

Also there is musical errors (tracks going out of snychronization) in both FF7 and FF8 at mulitple points. This is pretty horrible in fact, you wonder how they managed to mess it up that much.

So music aside, FF8 PC is an improvement, but FF7 PC is worse in all areas (except saving, because you have unlimited saves).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on December 15, 2013, 04:11:01 pm
Apparently the engines of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX (and Parasite Eve 1 and 2) are very similar to each other, so it sounds feasible.


Although they may all be similar (I couldn't say), FFVIII is built straight from PE's engine.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Vehek on December 15, 2013, 04:18:23 pm
Although they may all be similar (I couldn't say), FFVIII is built straight from PE's engine.
I've looked a bit at PE. Their (PE's and FF8's) data formats aren't that similar.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Nightcrawler on December 15, 2013, 05:05:56 pm
So music aside, FF8 PC is an improvement, but FF7 PC is worse in all areas (except saving, because you have unlimited saves).

If you take the time to apply all the available upgrades and patches for FF7 PC, it is absolutely incredible and vastly better than the PS1 original. HD videos, textures, remastered music, script fixes, menu improvements, you name it! It was a bit of pain to do, but I was happy to have done it when I was done. I was impressed with the results. Probably as good as if they had made an official remake for PS3.

Here is a bit of an idea of what you can end up with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e18Ay2kJE4#t=183

There are many other options to suite your tastes.

Now I am actually slightly disappointed with FF8 PC. It doesn't look as good! ;D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Bregalad on December 15, 2013, 05:57:58 pm
It's quite funny to see that.
I used to apply the patch that makes Cloud have this big sword everywhere. The problem is that it only change playable character's sprites without affecting others, so the result looks weird and inconsistent. Also the shadow effect is nice but overdone (I mean one side of the sprites is very light and the other very dark, it looks too contrasted to be natural).

The music is just the original MIDIs played with that huge 1GB soundfont. I have it on my PC and it's called [SF2] GM SoundFonts [shared by ZSF] - Crisis GM 3.51 ZSF Edit.sf2
You can have the music play though this with BASSMIDI without patching the game in any way. However, this sound font doesn't support XG instruments so chances are some parts of it will sound very wrong (in fact you can hear it immediately at the mako reactor - the "submarine" patch is missing and you get a ugly G note instead for example which is not supposed to be here - also 99% of "Mako reactor remixes" I've seen on Youtube have this ugly G note because they didn't figure out it was supposed to play with the XG "Submarine" patch, how lame those people are).

The dialogue and menus looks nice, but they don't look like FF. They look like "generic RPG Maker thing". I don't see how replacing them is an improvement.

There is no ways the FMVs can be in HD, ever, until you are able to hack into Square's backups and manage to re-render them with HD resolution. At best they are just the PS1 version ported (without the analog noise from recording).

As for the static backgrounds, I guess they ran some kind of advanced image processing tool to make it look sharper and have higher resolution. Unless they hacked into Square's backups and re-rendered them, which sounds unlikely to me. This is actually a good idea and a great improvement.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: BRPXQZME on December 15, 2013, 09:09:15 pm
The “HD” FMVs had similar processing done on them, no doubt. Maybe even motion interpolation (though I’ve never looked too closely at the mods for this game).

I have heard a number of those SoundFont-based music mods for FF7, though. They sound so wrong; it’s all the weirdest-sounding, non-standard patches that set the right mood for that game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: xander on December 15, 2013, 10:54:15 pm
I remember hearing rumors that a PC port of FFIX was finished and all ready to go, but ended up just being stuck in a drawer somewhere.  Apparently the engines of FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX (and Parasite Eve 1 and 2) are very similar to each other, so it sounds feasible.

I wasn't previously aware that Aali had made another driver for FFVIII.  It was my understanding that the PC port of FFVIII was put together a little better than the PC port of FFVII, such that it was unnecessary.

If this is true about pc port for FFIX its good news because i read that besides those games sharing a similar engine that FFIX and Chrono Cross also shared a similar engine (goes along with both games being made same year). If this is the case its possible for them to port that game over. Maybe thats stretching it though.

and MarkGrass this is what i was trying to bring up. If they did buy "Aali's Driver" wouldnt they still need to give him credit or did they learn thier lesson from hcs64 and his name is somewhere in a text file?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Gemini on December 16, 2013, 12:14:31 pm
FFIX stems from the FFVII engine (later used for the first Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story), while Chrono Cross comes from the Xenogears engine (and both share the same coding horrors). Still, FFIX should be easily portable using exactly the same "tricks" that allowed 7 and 8 to work on a PC, but at this point I doubt Square Enix even has the sources anymore, making this attempt extremely hard if doable at all.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: xander on December 16, 2013, 10:43:25 pm
Actually you're correct,it was Chrono Cross and Xenogears which shared a similar engine. Maybe thats why theres tools already to translate those games but none for FFIX till recently.

It would be great to have a trilogy steam release with IX but thats wishfull thinking.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Jorpho on December 16, 2013, 11:43:49 pm
Here is a bit of an idea of what you can end up with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e18Ay2kJE4#t=183
My my, that is impressive.  They even got rid of the charmingly ear-piercing cursor squeal.  Are those all mods available from http://www.finalfantasy7pc.com/ ?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Azkadellia on December 16, 2013, 11:58:11 pm
More like qhimm's forums. (http://forums.qhimm.com/)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Nightcrawler on December 17, 2013, 07:26:41 pm
Yes, qhimm's is the place to go. Everything can be installed via the Bootleg Configurator program. Some of the mods are huge such as video recodes and there are many many different ones. So, I ended up downloading a 10 or 20 gig torrent with all of the available mods so I could pick and choose quickly and easily between all of them in Bootleg Configurator. You will have to do some reading over there to figure it all out, but it's worth it! My FF7 PC purchase has more value than ever now all these years later! :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Jorpho on December 17, 2013, 10:39:40 pm
I guess this means finalfantasy7pc.com isn't particularly up-to-date anymore, then.  That's unfortunate; it is indeed kind of hard to sort out what's what from the forums alone.

Does this mean that the efforts to rebuild the engine from scratch eventually picked up some momentum?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: Nightcrawler on December 18, 2013, 08:00:09 pm
I guess this means finalfantasy7pc.com isn't particularly up-to-date anymore, then.  That's unfortunate; it is indeed kind of hard to sort out what's what from the forums alone.

I don't know. The thing is with Bootleg Configurator, it automatically handles installation of the whole mod package you choose. It's far easier than installing all the mods on your own. You can fairly quickly try out and mix and match the mods of your choosing. It also has handy presets to help you select from the otherwise daunting selection.

Quote
Does this mean that the efforts to rebuild the engine from scratch eventually picked up some momentum?

I wonder what happened to that myself.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII Steam Release
Post by: BRPXQZME on December 18, 2013, 08:18:24 pm
I took a look at that forum... yeah, there were some impressive screenshots, but not only was discussion very slow, they are using OGRE of all things. If you want contributors that is a very good way to Shrek yourself.