Romhacking.net

Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: vivify93 on November 17, 2013, 11:31:11 pm

Title: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on November 17, 2013, 11:31:11 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/WQECqf1.png)
Rewrite. Revitalize. Renew.
Project II

It is well-known that the official English Super NES version of Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy II, has a terribly written script. Chock-full of censorship, poor translations, awkward phrasings; combined with the removal of various content, it was an insult to the intelligence and the reading comprehension of gamers everywhere! J2e set out with a goal to remedy this by translating the Japanese version, yet at the price of a hack-job hacking job and many inside jokes added in unfitting places for the fun of it—and the script itself still left something to be desired.

Enter Project II. Using Pinkpuff and company's editor, FF4kster (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/914/), I have entirely rewritten the script of Final Fantasy II from scratch, utilizing various elements from nearly every English version of Final Fantasy IV, as well as taking cues from Tomato's findings at the famous FFIV page at his site, Legends of Localization (http://legendsoflocalization.com/).

This wasn't enough, however. There was more that needed to be done. Dummied content has been restored; battle commands enjoy vast upgrades; enemy item drops have been reverted and improved; shop inventories have been updated, using the Japanese game as a close guideline; Sirens can now be bought; other authors' improvements have been added.

(http://i.imgur.com/nX9ujiw.png)(http://i.imgur.com/V0ShBJz.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/OOdH5g2.png)(http://i.imgur.com/r3xIDAp.png)

Download now and experience the Project (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/), version 2.21.

(If you have not yet upgraded from v1.00, you are extremely encouraged to, as a balance-shattering problem that was in v1.00 has since been fixed in subsequent releases.)

ROM Specifications:
Final Fantasy II (U) [!] (v1.1).smc
Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES)
English
Headered (1,049,088 bytes or 1.00 MB)
Game Version 1.1

Hacking Credits:
(I recommend looking the linked mods' readmes to find out what they do in detail.)

This is work is my apex, Project II: Final Fantasy IV. Please, enjoy the result of my blood, sweat, and tears.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: BRPXQZME on November 18, 2013, 11:22:10 am
Please, enjoy the result of my blood, sweat, and tears.
>Your_tears_are_delicious.jpg

But this looks pretty neat.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 18, 2013, 01:58:32 pm
I really love this idea. I might take another stab at Final Fantasy IV again. I wonder though, why not just add your translation and bug fixes to the Japanese version? I know I thought of doing that to my hack :http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/) but don't have the know how to make it work properly. I love the new title screen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: tryphon on November 18, 2013, 02:48:49 pm
I've never played FF4. It seems a good opportunity...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 18, 2013, 03:13:43 pm
But this looks pretty neat.
Thanks, hope you check it out! :)

I really love this idea. I might take another stab at Final Fantasy IV again. I wonder though, why not just add your translation and bug fixes to the Japanese version? I know I thought of doing that to my hack :http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/) but don't have the know how to make it work properly.
There's a couple of reasons for this, actually; for one thing, despite my credits page on RHDN, I'm nowhere near as skilled a game modder as other people on this site. I can barely do graphics and text, to be honest! For another, it was FFII US specifically that I wanted to do this for. I've known for a long time that Kaoru Moriyama's FFII has a subpar script, and I wanted to set out and remedy this. Another reason was that I wanted to give FF4kster some free press with the Project, and it doesn't work with the Japanese version of FFIV.

I love the new title screen.
Thank you; all credits for that go to Paladin of Paladinet.com! I have always liked the title screen in his mod. Wonder if I could convince him to port his changes to Project II's script. :P

I've never played FF4. It seems a good opportunity...
I would be honored for Project II to be your first Final Fantasy IV experience. :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 19, 2013, 10:20:11 am
Looks good. Did you add a battle gauge?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 19, 2013, 12:08:16 pm
Looks good. Did you add a battle gauge?
Unfortunately not; but it would've been a lovely addition!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 20, 2013, 08:45:52 pm
I was hoping someone would get around to doing this! J2e is, in my opinion, atrocious. Not just the dialogue itself but the font looks icky. Besides, changing such iconic character names gets on my nerves so much I have to change them back to normal first chance I get.

There's just one tiny, itty-bitty detail that bugs me. There's a column of empty space on each side of the main text boxes that is never used in the original game and you didn't make use of it. For example, look at the bottom-left screenshot. See the empty space on the far left and right in the text box? That's what I'm talking about. I mean, why have that space there if you never use it?

Other than that, great work! I'll enjoy reliving this SNES classic like I always wanted.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 21, 2013, 12:56:59 am
There's just one tiny, itty-bitty detail that bugs me. There's a column of empty space on each side of the main text boxes that is never used in the original game and you didn't make use of it. For example, look at the bottom-left screenshot. See the empty space on the far left and right in the text box? That's what I'm talking about. I mean, why have that space there if you never use it?
That's actually a part of the game's routine! I'm not that skilled of a hacker, so I couldn't do anything with it. I think it's there in case of over-scan issues on CRT TVs.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 21, 2013, 11:47:27 am
I'm suprised you didn't rename the items or spells. I know space is an issue, but Lit always bugged me as a spell name. I like the translation so far. It almost feels like a refined version of the US FFII so far.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 21, 2013, 04:49:31 pm
I'm suprised you didn't rename the items or spells. I know space is an issue, but Lit always bugged me as a spell name. I like the translation so far. It almost feels like a refined version of the US FFII so far.
I did rename a lot, a lot of the items, actually. I just had them mostly fit in with FFIII US. Tonic, Potion, X-Potion, Tincture, Ether... Keep in mind this stuff was Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Ether1, and Ether2 before. Are you actually mostly just asking me why I kept Lit and didn't change it to Bolt? My reasoning was, a lot of FF translations called it Lit back then, and I wanted to preserve that. It gives it a touch of uniqueness that is only found in translations of the era.

I'm glad you're enjoying it! Let me know if you find anything that could serve to be improved upon. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 21, 2013, 05:22:45 pm
That's actually a part of the game's routine! I'm not that skilled of a hacker, so I couldn't do anything with it. I think it's there in case of over-scan issues on CRT TVs.
Ah, I gotcha. I knew old games did compensate for overscan, but I still don't see the point of having that extra space. Not complaining to you, mind, just ranting a bit about the original game.

I like how you used little double-letter icons (li, ll, etc.). It looked a bit weird at first, but upon getting used to it, it looks really good. I also enjoy it since I can put in Allison as Rosa's name. I just have to leave out one t in my name, since there's no tt icon. Oh well, it doesn't look horrible with only one 1.

EDIT: Bug report. The MagicMap and EyeDrops descriptions are just "D". This might also be for other items.

EDIT2: As I've played more of the game, I've noticed how weird some of the icons make options look. For example: Call. I personally think it would look better if it was spelled out all the way instead of with the ll. That might just be me, though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 22, 2013, 06:04:42 am
Bug report. The MagicMap and EyeDrops descriptions are just "D". This might also be for other items.
You didn't check the readme, I see! :P I outlined that in the "Left to Do" section. That's why Item_List.TXT exists in this version of the mod.

EDIT2: As I've played more of the game, I've noticed how weird some of the icons make options look. For example: Call. I personally think it would look better if it was spelled out all the way instead of with the ll. That might just be me, though.
I like it as it is now, but that's not to say I'm not going to undo it if I don't get enough complaints about it. Even then, I'd still be using the il / li / ll icons in places that necessitate it, like for the Recall command, and a fair handful of enemy names.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 22, 2013, 02:47:51 pm
I glanced over it, but I must've missed that little detail. Oops.

Using the icons when necessary is totally fine, I just think Call would look better if it was spelled out all the way, since it's right under White and Black.

Something else I noticed that could use a touch up: on the Status screen, you used the il icon in Will. I personally think it would look better if you used the ll icon instead. I also noticed some inconsistency regarding the il icon; you used it by default for Cecil, but didn't make use of it for Sheila (Yang's wife). Not a huge deal, just thought I'd point it out.

One more thing. This is probably me just being nitpicky, but I think you should change Rosa from a "Wh.Wiz." to a "Wh.Mage". Wizard implies a guy, right? Besides, Mage doesn't need an abbreviation, so in my opinion it would look better.

Lastly, I have a quick question/request. Once you finish with this game, is there a possibility of you doing something like this for Final Fantasy 6? I know it doesn't need a touch-up near as bad as 4, but there are occasionally spots in 6 where I think the dialogue could use a touch-up or where Slattery did a better job on with the GBA script. Not to mention the whole name-in-caps-by-default thing that bugs the tar out of me, as well as errors in naming (Fenix Down, Vicks, memebers, etc.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 28, 2013, 07:11:52 pm

Lastly, I have a quick question/request. Once you finish with this game, is there a possibility of you doing something like this for Final Fantasy 6? I know it doesn't need a touch-up near as bad as 4, but there are occasionally spots in 6 where I think the dialogue could use a touch-up or where Slattery did a better job on with the GBA script. Not to mention the whole name-in-caps-by-default thing that bugs the tar out of me, as well as errors in naming (Fenix Down, Vicks, memebers, etc.)

Have you played this yet?
www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386 (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 29, 2013, 12:15:31 am
Have you played this yet?
www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386 (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386)
Actually, no. Nevermind then, ignore my request, this seems like it fits what I'm looking for. Thanks!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 29, 2013, 02:47:58 am
Oh, geez, I'm sorry; I had no idea you were still editing that post. I feel terrible now.

I also noticed some inconsistency regarding the il icon; you used it by default for Cecil, but didn't make use of it for Sheila (Yang's wife). Not a huge deal, just thought I'd point it out.
Well, I used it for Cecil because you can actually name him. If you noticed, I didn't use any of the il / li / ll icons in the out-of-battle dialogue, just the menu text and in-battle stuff. Since "Cecil" is a name variable, it counts as a menu item even when drawn in the out-of-battle dialogue, so it can display properly in dialogue because of that. il / li / ll all use the same hex byte as dual-tile encoding for the main game script; even if I wanted to insert them, it wouldn't work. In the Sheila example, it would show up as "Shetha" due to the il icon sharing the "th" DTE's byte. I hope this makes sense.

One more thing. This is probably me just being nitpicky, but I think you should change Rosa from a "Wh.Wiz." to a "Wh.Mage". Wizard implies a guy, right? Besides, Mage doesn't need an abbreviation, so in my opinion it would look better.
I kept Rosa as a White Wizard because I felt she would be much wiser than a fledgling White Mage like Porom.

Lastly, I have a quick question/request. Once you finish with this game, is there a possibility of you doing something like this for Final Fantasy 6? I know it doesn't need a touch-up near as bad as 4, but there are occasionally spots in 6 where I think the dialogue could use a touch-up or where Slattery did a better job on with the GBA script. Not to mention the whole name-in-caps-by-default thing that bugs the tar out of me, as well as errors in naming (Fenix Down, Vicks, memebers, etc.)
The Woolsey Uncensored Edition is a good patch, as previously linked, but if you want something closer to the Project's ideal, I recommend Stand Guard, which reinvigorates the vast majority of the text.

I was going to make a Project I and a Project III, actually, but the ideas fell through since I figure one could just play the GBA version of FFVI for its edited text; just get the European release, slap on the font facelift, the uncensored graphics patch, General Violence, color restorer, sound restorer, and maybe the Woolsey-Slattery Compromise patch if you're feeling festive.

Not so with Final Fantasy IV "Slowdown Glitch-fest" Advance. If people want to play something with the original-size sprites and original-style graphics, they're stuck with FFIV PS1 (Slowdown), FFII US (Terrible script, missing content), J2e's translation (Need I say more?), or the GBA game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 29, 2013, 11:54:25 am
The European version of FFIV Advance is much more polished, in case you didn't know. Glitches were fixed and plus it has a sound restoration.

I only wish you could somehow hack the SNES version to make the menus a little more polished. That's one thing that bugs me about FFIV that they fixed in the Advance version: how slow and clunky the menus are.

EDIT: I've tried out Stand Guard. While it does reinvigorate a bunch of the text, to me it feels like a spoof or a parody rather than just a script improvement due to how many liberties the script takes from the original. Also the character descriptions are very ugly and don't flow well. Granted, there are some nice things (the font is nice and the increased running speed is also convenient), but the Woolsey Uncensored patch is more what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 29, 2013, 04:43:41 pm
The European version of FFIV Advance is much more polished, in case you didn't know. Glitches were fixed and plus it has a sound restoration.
Buuut it didn't fix any of the slowdown. Cecil's Dark is lightning-fast in the original, and tons, tons slower in the GBA port, for example.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 29, 2013, 06:26:51 pm
True, but that slowdown also exists in FFVI Advance with one of Sabin's blitzes. I believe it's called Rising Pheonix? It's the fire one where a bunch of red Sabin clones fly around the enemies.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: KingMike on November 29, 2013, 09:09:18 pm
Yes, that move definitely had the slowdown.

The one move I think I successfully performed ONCE on my SNES controller but did pretty consistently when I played the GBA game on my original DS. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 29, 2013, 10:43:52 pm
Did you know that there's an optional blitz input that has no diagonals? Left, Left, Down, Right, Right also works.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on November 30, 2013, 01:47:01 am
Okay so I've played through beating OctoMammoth, and I must say the translation is now much more readable then before. Kaipo was such a mess in FFIIUS that it was almost confusing. I decided to try and play through FFIIUS along with Project II to see the changes. The dummied content returning is so welcome that I had a hard time in the US version without Darkness. I almost forgot that it was taken out. I noticed that some of the spells seem weaker on some monsters or that maybe they are beefed up a little. The Zombies took an extra Fire spell, which was odd. But Tellah's 8 extra MP helped. Speaking of Tellah, I actually prefer the h at the end of his name. I know it might be a challenge but, please keep him as Tellah! The monsters you did rename are much better than before. Toebiter sounds better than Pike.

I know you said you still had to go through the item names and descriptions. The D showing up I understand is place holder. Since you are going to be working on them, I much prefer the established names where possible. Tonics and Tinctures still do not seem right in FF4. I know it was Cure1, Cure2, etc in FFIIUS, but Potion, HiPotion (if possible Hi Potion or Hi-Potion) I think works better in general, IMHO. Also, I'm not sure what you named Rosa's White spell, but I'm sure it was suppossed to be Holy.

All in all, Project II has been very enjoyable so far.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on November 30, 2013, 03:43:45 am
True, but that slowdown also exists in FFVI Advance with one of Sabin's blitzes. I believe it's called Rising Pheonix? It's the fire one where a bunch of red Sabin clones fly around the enemies.
That's the thing, though, FFIV Advance has slowdown everywhere. V Advance and VI Advance only have some isolated incidents.



Thank you for the praise, Rodimus Primal! :) I'm glad you're enjoying the Project.

Speaking of Tellah, I actually prefer the h at the end of his name. I know it might be a challenge but, please keep him as Tellah!
I'm not changing any of the established character names. The closest thing I did was insert il / ll icons into Tellah and Cecil's names.

Quote
Since you are going to be working on them, I much prefer the established names where possible. Tonics and Tinctures still do not seem right in FF4. I know it was Cure1, Cure2, etc in FFIIUS, but Potion, HiPotion (if possible Hi Potion or Hi-Potion) I think works better in general, IMHO. Also, I'm not sure what you named Rosa's White spell, but I'm sure it was suppossed to be Holy.
The thing about that is, though, that if I changed those, it'd be going against one of the Project's goals: to make the game seem like a natural bridging point between Phil Sandhop's FFI and Ted Woolsey's FFVI. In all honesty, thanks to the FF Legend games and FF Mystic Quest--also released around the era of FFII US--I kind of wanted to keep them as Cure Potions, but decided that the spells and the potions didn't need to have the exact same name.

Also, feel free to report any typos and grammar errors here, too, everyone! :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on November 30, 2013, 11:51:01 am
I'm with Rodimus Primal here, the script is MUCH better than before. I'm up to the point where you sneak into Baron Castle after getting Yang back and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

I also agree with not changing the names. The one time I did play J2e, the changed names bothered me so much I had to change them back ASAP.

The beefed-up commands (Salve and Pray) are so much more useful now as well. They're actually worth using, unlike before. But speaking of commands, there's one that I think needs a buff: Yang's Focus. It does about 2x damage but it takes another turn to unleash, so you're better off just having him attack twice. Unless it doesn't take another turn or my math is off or I'm just crazy. Probably crazy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Reiska on November 30, 2013, 10:04:21 pm
Focus also doesn't trigger counterattacks from monsters that have them, which is handy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 01, 2013, 12:05:36 am
I didn't know that, actually. Then again, how many monsters DO counter physical attacks? I know the Antlion does, but what else?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: KingMike on December 01, 2013, 01:16:24 am
Don't needle-rats and tiny mages counter?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 01, 2013, 05:21:20 am
Pretty much all SwordRat variants counter, and MiniMage variants counter with Psych if you attack them with magic.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 01, 2013, 10:50:39 am
Screw MiniMages, I always run from them. Too much trouble.

I'm up to Troia now, by the way. One thing that REALLY drove me up the wall was how J2e called Rosa a whore. That's going way too far. Nothing like that was in the original or official release, so someone obviously wrote that in to try and be funny. Well, *expletive* you, whoever wrote that in. Sarina (my Rosa) is NO whore, I'll have you know! [/endrant]
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: I.S.T. on December 01, 2013, 01:26:59 pm
Yeah, Rosa never really does anything all that bad of her own will to be called a name like that.

Not that there's anything wrong with prostitution, IMO... But the word whore carries with it a certain strength.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 01, 2013, 02:15:05 pm
Wow! I definitely don't recall that. But I would never put it past that script, either.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: KingMike on December 01, 2013, 09:48:18 pm
Screw MiniMages, I always run from them. Too much trouble.

I'm up to Troia now, by the way. One thing that REALLY drove me up the wall was how J2e called Rosa a whore. That's going way too far. Nothing like that was in the original or official release, so someone obviously wrote that in to try and be funny. Well, *expletive* you, whoever wrote that in. Sarina (my Rosa) is NO whore, I'll have you know! [/endrant]

j2e's was almost certainly way over the top, I recall in the post-Giant of Babil cutscene, Rydia threatened to cut Cecil's testicles if he didn't let her join. :o

And another enemy that counters, I believe: the Dark Knight.
It was something like

To be a true Paladin,

you must not fight now.

Well I always have plenty of Cure2 potions, so screw that, I'm going to fight anyways!  ;D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 01, 2013, 11:29:09 pm

I'm not changing any of the established character names. The closest thing I did was insert il / ll icons into Tellah and Cecil's names.
The thing about that is, though, that if I changed those, it'd be going against one of the Project's goals: to make the game seem like a natural bridging point between Phil Sandhop's FFI and Ted Woolsey's FFVI. In all honesty, thanks to the FF Legend games and FF Mystic Quest--also released around the era of FFII US--I kind of wanted to keep them as Cure Potions, but decided that the spells and the potions didn't need to have the exact same name.

Also, feel free to report any typos and grammar errors here, too, everyone! :)

Tellah comes up as Tella and Edward as G(harp symbol)bert. Was that intentional? Just curious.

As a matter of question, besides the item names and descriptions, what is left to do with the project?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Bisqwit on December 02, 2013, 05:53:00 am
Tellah comes up as Tella and Edward as G(harp symbol)bert. Was that intentional? Just curious.

Sounds like there should be the "il" digraph instead of the harp symbol.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 02, 2013, 02:01:45 pm
Tellah comes up as Tella and Edward as G(harp symbol)bert. Was that intentional? Just curious.
What ROM did you apply it to? You're supposed to patch a clean copy of FFII US v1.1. I purposefully left Edward and Tellah's names alone in my mod, and I doubt G-harp-bert would show up unless you were using a previously modded copy.

As a matter of question, besides the item names and descriptions, what is left to do with the project?
Item names are and have been finished. All that's left is descriptions, though I will be releasing another version before then to fix some typos.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 02, 2013, 04:27:12 pm
I used a FFII (1.1) with a header. Perhaps the header is causing it. I downloaded the file right from here.

Edit: Seems the header does cause an issue with Tellah's and Edward's names. But without a header, the new title screen is messed up. It still says IV but has garbage around it as if the II is left over.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 02, 2013, 04:54:40 pm
The rom is supposed to have a header, which is why the title screen messes up when you apply the patch to an unheadered rom.

The Tellah/Edward name problem sounds like an issue with a save file from J2e. In that patch, Tellah and Edward's names are Tella and Gilbert respectively. Double-check that your rom is clean or corrupt. If that doesn't work, find another rom.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 02, 2013, 06:26:32 pm
Yep it was a J2E save file that caused the problem. Of course, that meant starting fresh.  :banghead:

Still, I am enjoying the translation a lot more. I look foward to when you finish the item descriptions and typo fixes. I'll be sure to post my findings.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 02, 2013, 08:10:44 pm
Alright, good; glad we got this sorted out. :) I hope you enjoy!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 02, 2013, 09:36:04 pm
Yep it was a J2E save file that caused the problem. Of course, that meant starting fresh.  :banghead:
You could've just went to Namingway and changed the names back, y'know. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 03, 2013, 01:37:39 am
Nah. I was close enough to be the beginning anyway. Besides, I'm also playing alongside FF II to see the changes made as I go along.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 04, 2013, 06:44:04 pm
I just noticed something weird. You know the magic icon that appears next to every spell? It sometimes messes up:
(http://puu.sh/5CmmV.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 05, 2013, 12:37:27 am
That's actually in every Super Famicom / Super Nintendo version of Final Fantasy IV / Final Fantasy II. I'm no expert, so the best I can explain it is this: It's because the color black is being viewed as transparent, thus creating the look of a "hole". The only way to "fix" it would be to remove the color black from the black magic icon entirely, and I'm not comfortable with doing that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: DrROBschiz on December 06, 2013, 12:22:34 pm
Really cool update!

If only there were tools available for modders to work on FFIV Complete

Would love to see a remix/rebalance on a much prettier rendition of the game
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Bregalad on December 08, 2013, 01:03:07 pm
vivify93 :
This is a really great project. I'm glad someone finally picked this up. I never liked the j2e translation, the font is horrible, the text boxes are oversized / looks ugly, and there is this swearing all the time.

I like that this is an edition of the american Final Fantasy "II" release, because this version doesn't need hours of grinding. Who still enjoy this, seriously ?

However I have to say something. It's a great idea to use the "ll" and "il" idioms for "Cecil" and "Tellah" but you should also use them in the game's text. You could also use idioms for "ill", "ili" and "lli" as in the FF3 translation. (only requires 4 additional tiles : i + half a l, l + half a l, and half a l + i, half a l + l)

Also I think lines starting in "Soldier A:" are hard to read. I don't know why buy they look strange. You should probably add a quote after the ':', or at least a space.

I wish you best of luck for potential future updates of this project.

And, by the way, yes the FF4A version of the game is very slow. Even moving your cursor in menus in slow in this version. However it has nice translations in many languages, the graphics are updated, the game is still very close to the original, and there is my awesome sound restoration patch. The main advantage is that after playing it, going back to the original makes it feel very fast, even on a PAL console.

Fixing the black magic icon bug is theoretically possible (by dynamically placing a black tile on the background when this window show up, and then placing a normal background tile again), but it's probably not worth the trouble.
Note that the same bug appears every time you find an item with an associated symbol in a chest, and it's present in the equip menu itself too.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 08, 2013, 02:50:20 pm
However I have to say something. It's a great idea to use the "ll" and "il" idioms for "Cecil" and "Tellah" but you should also use them in the game's text.
I actually mentioned that on the first page. His response was:

Well, I used it for Cecil because you can actually name him. If you noticed, I didn't use any of the il / li / ll icons in the out-of-battle dialogue, just the menu text and in-battle stuff. Since "Cecil" is a name variable, it counts as a menu item even when drawn in the out-of-battle dialogue, so it can display properly in dialogue because of that. il / li / ll all use the same hex byte as dual-tile encoding for the main game script; even if I wanted to insert them, it wouldn't work. In the Sheila example, it would show up as "Shetha" due to the il icon sharing the "th" DTE's byte. I hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Bregalad on December 08, 2013, 03:50:52 pm
Oh I'm sorry I didn't see it.

And I'm absolutely sure there is a way to make it work for out-of-battle dialogue, too. It just needs a very simple hack into the DTE routine, to change the lower/upper bounds of DTE encoding range of values.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 08, 2013, 04:29:45 pm
Actually, I was wondering if I should maybe remove the il / li / ll tiles in places they're not needed. This would be basically every place except the battle dialogue and most enemy names. They'd still be available on the Namingway screen, though. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: justin3009 on December 08, 2013, 04:34:09 pm
Oh I'm sorry I didn't see it.

And I'm absolutely sure there is a way to make it work for out-of-battle dialogue, too. It just needs a very simple hack into the DTE routine, to change the lower/upper bounds of DTE encoding range of values.

That depends.  If the 'il' and 'll' etc.. icons are mid-way through, you've got a huge problem then.  Plus, all the values that DO use the DTE would have to be edited in the script otherwise you'll be getting some funky text strings.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vx on December 08, 2013, 07:49:38 pm
It's about time someone did it  ;D

Good job.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 08, 2013, 09:15:18 pm
Thank you, vx!

To everyone, I'm releasing an emergency fix patch for Project II. You will not need to start your game over; however, you will need to apply the new patch to a clean, unaltered version of the v1.1 FFII US ROM.

Click here for Project II v1.01 EMERGENCY FIX. (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v1-01EF.zip) It can also be found on the first page.

What was fixed in this patch? Oh, some character syntax things, a few minor problems here and there, removed gratuitous use of the il / li / ll icons... and fixed a balance-shattering problem.

You see, before, the new and improved Warp had a 100% chance of hitting anything in battle, including bosses. I one-shotted Zeromus with this piddly little spell. I made sure it can't hit bosses anymore, and drastically lowered its hit percentage to 40%. Sorry, everyone. To make up for this, I upped Doom's hit rate by 10%.

EDIT: here is the updated RHDN entry. (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Bregalad on December 09, 2013, 02:45:59 am
Quote
Plus, all the values that DO use the DTE would have to be edited in the script otherwise you'll be getting some funky text strings.
True, but in my opinion if you change the text you should update the DTE table to match the new script anyway. But that's not my hack, and I understand there is little reason to go through the trouble to do this when it's very easy to expand the ROM instead.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: SabinSuplexedATrain on December 17, 2013, 09:06:36 am
I would love to try this, but I have a problem. I applied the patch but when I open the rom, a message says its corrupted and there's nothing but a black screen. I ran the rom through Goodtools so it should be a perfect dump. I don't know what else to do.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 17, 2013, 02:00:37 pm
Make sure its a clean ROM but that it also has a header. Then it should be fine. Also do not use existing save files as it may cause naming errors.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 17, 2013, 05:33:35 pm
I would love to try this, but I have a problem. I applied the patch but when I open the rom, a message says its corrupted and there's nothing but a black screen. I ran the rom through Goodtools so it should be a perfect dump. I don't know what else to do.
You're applying it to Final Fantasy II v1.1 for SNES with a header, right? Let me know if you are and I'll see if I can't sort out the problem.  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: SabinSuplexedATrain on December 17, 2013, 06:17:31 pm
You're applying it to Final Fantasy II v1.1 for SNES with a header, right? Let me know if you are and I'll see if I can't sort out the problem.  :)

No it didn't have a header, but I found one that did and now the patch works, I think. I still have one question though, the title screen reads "Final Fantasy IV" like expected, but there's two dots that are not in the title screen pic on the first page. One of these dots is next to the "I" in "IV" making it look like "A," and another is in the space inside the "V." I was just wondering if they were supposed to be there or if this means my rom is messed up. I'd post a screenshot but I don't think it'll let me.

December 17, 2013, 06:20:40 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
No it didn't have a header, but I found one that did and now the patch works, I think. I still have one question though, the title screen reads "Final Fantasy IV" like expected, but there's two dots that are not in the title screen pic on the first page. One of these dots is next to the "I" in "IV" making it look like "A," and another is in the space inside the "V." I was just wondering if they were supposed to be there or if this means my rom is messed up. I'd post a screenshot but I don't think it'll let me.

(http://i.imgur.com/jXjha6I.png?1)

Here's what I'm tal;king about (I just learned how to use imgur)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 17, 2013, 06:53:18 pm
a lot of people have had that title screen problem, and i think they said their issue was using a ROM without a header. you specifically said you are using a header, though, so i don't know what gives...

anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: SabinSuplexedATrain on December 17, 2013, 07:41:49 pm
a lot of people have had that title screen problem, and i think they said their issue was using a ROM without a header. you specifically said you are using a header, though, so i don't know what gives...

anyone have any ideas?

To be honest, I have no idea what a header is. However I;ve heard that certain patches need them on a ROM so I found a program here on Romhacking.net that tells you if your SNES ROM has a header and the program says it does. It's not that big of a problem, at least it seems to work. It just bugs my OCD that the titlescreen is not perfect. WHY oh WHY couldn't Square have just gave the U.S. Final Fantasy games their CORRECT name in the first place?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 17, 2013, 10:31:21 pm
Maybe you're using version 1.0. That's the only thing I can think of.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 18, 2013, 02:28:10 am
The error you are having initially with it not working is caused by it not being Final Fantasy II 1.1 (U).

I use NSRT to add a header to my ROMs when the hack calls for it, like Project II does. Make sure the ROM has a header before patching.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 19, 2013, 11:25:50 am
Thanks for helping SabinSuplexedATrain, Rodimus Primal! :)

v1.02 is out. It fixes a pretty nasty bug with the song Halting Aria, and fixes more typos.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: SabinSuplexedATrain on December 25, 2013, 04:12:33 pm
Thanks for all the help so far, but I'm STILL having problems and I just don't know why.

If I use the correct rom, (U) 1.1 w/ header, everything, snes9x and zsnes both say it's corrupted and won't load.
If I use a (U) 1.1 rom without a header, it loads but has the messed up title screen.

I've tried roms from all the major places and none of them work as Project II intends.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on December 28, 2013, 09:57:27 pm
I've contacted you via PM, SabinSuplexedATrain.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: SabinSuplexedATrain on December 29, 2013, 02:41:09 pm
To anyone else who may have problems, you MUST use Lunar IPS to apply the patch. IPSWin will screw it up.
Thanks again for the help!!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 04, 2014, 02:12:10 am
So I've spent some time working on a mock up Box Art for Project II. Tell me what you think.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Rodimus86/FinalFantasyIVProjectII.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Rodimus86/media/FinalFantasyIVProjectII.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 04, 2014, 03:01:56 am
It literally looks like you copied and pasted the right side of that V instead of trying to make it, y'know, actually work in the font. It doesn't fit at all.

In fact, if you'd just snipped the V-like portion of the Y and enlarged it, it'd look at least marginally competent. (Use a higher-res, non-artifacted scan of the box art, for fuck's sake.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on January 04, 2014, 04:20:29 am
So I've spent some time working on a mock up Box Art for Project II. Tell me what you think.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Rodimus86/FinalFantasyIVProjectII.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Rodimus86/media/FinalFantasyIVProjectII.jpg.html)
I like it a lot! Thank you so much, Rodimus Primal. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Bregalad on January 04, 2014, 06:10:21 am
Oh no, there will be people making reproes of this and selling it for $100 on ebay.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 04, 2014, 11:06:15 pm
Believe it or not, that is high res but Photobucket must have lowered it when I uploaded it. Also I appreciate the constructive criticism, just not the vulgar comment. To top that off my Photoshop skills are a bit rusty so it gives me something to work on. The V itself was actually the Roman Numerals shaped into a V. Stretching out the Y sounds like a better idea to keep it in font. The only problem I ran into was the V overlapping the black portion on the right.

Edit: so I tried it that way. Let me know what you think.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/Rodimus86/FinalFantasyIVProjectII-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 05, 2014, 12:31:00 am
Well, now it actually fits, but it still has a lot of artifacting. I'd suggest redrawing it from scratch, honestly. (And putting it on imgur instead of photobucket.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on June 01, 2014, 09:01:46 pm
v1.03 is out! Some textual updates were made, and I imported the Heroine Robe's (Minerva Robe in Project II) changes from Easy Type. It now only gives +10 Strength, Agility, and Vitality, but the -15 penalty to Wisdom and Willpower is gone now.

Also, for those who didn't know, you can plug in a second controller and play FFII US with a friend! You both have total control over everything. This has been in since the beginning, so I updated one of the more useless Beginner's Classroom messages to instead include this.

Lastly, I think I've finally decided on a good balance for Warp. It now has an insane casting delay to make up for its total brokenness of before. Fatal's (Doom in Project II) casting delay has been lowered slightly to make it a more attractive choice over Warp. (Of course, Stone / Break is still objectively better than either of them...)

You can find the latest update on Project II's RHDN page.

Unless I hear of anything else that I desperately need to remedy, this is it until v2.00, which will finally update the item descriptions.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: elsoldorado on June 26, 2014, 11:38:40 pm
Help!
I'm up at the Lodestone Cavern, trying to fight the Dark Elf. Trying being the key word: in the first phase it just attacks and does 9999 to anyone in the party. So I'm just dying and not dealing enough damage to reach the second part. My question is: Is this a bug or I have to suck it up and just grind? Cecil is in level 27 btw.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: KingMike on June 27, 2014, 02:01:05 am
Assuming this is a balancing hack and the story/events, etc. aren't changed, you missed a plot event/key item.
You'll get a game over after DarkElf beats you (unavoidable) if you don't have that item.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on June 27, 2014, 11:21:47 am
Like KingMike said, you probably missed a key item. Go back to Troia (I forget how it's spelled in this game) Castle and look around for a while until you find an old friend.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: elsoldorado on June 27, 2014, 11:25:47 pm
You're right! I have played this game to death and I totally forgot to talk to Edward in Troia Castle!
 :banghead:
Sorry about that!  :beer:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on June 28, 2014, 12:50:03 am
Don't feel bad, elsoldorado, I missed it on one of my test play-throughs of Project II. >.> And it's spelled Troia in the Project, TheZunar123. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on June 28, 2014, 05:38:07 pm
It's spelled Troia in the Project, TheZunar123. :)
Ah, thanks. There's so many Final Fantasy 4 hacks out there I get them confused sometimes. So many different names >_<
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Midna on June 29, 2014, 01:11:39 am
Troia is how every official translation of FFIV except the original spells the town's name anyway, so...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: TheZunar123 on June 29, 2014, 11:26:10 am
Are you sure? I could've sworn J2e spelled it Toroia.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Midna on June 29, 2014, 09:22:14 pm
Every official translation.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on June 30, 2014, 02:40:45 am
Potayto, potahto, I don't really care. I just chose Troia because it sounds nicer, and it apparently is like a certain spelling of Troy, like Helen of Troy. So yeah. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: Spooniest on June 30, 2014, 09:53:59 am
You have to go talk to Edward, yeah.

Sucks when you miss that part, and have to do the Lodestone Cavern all over again. :) Good times.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy IV - Project II
Post by: vivify93 on August 12, 2014, 12:03:31 am
At long last, v2.00 will be out soon. The latest update of ff4kster allowed for editing of item descriptions, which I hurried to do today before bed. I also removed the superfluous il / li / ll icons from field map labels. This should be the last update ever for Project II.

Edit - Unexpected bug has cropped up. Will still hopefully be out this month.

August 15, 2014, 10:01:12 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
v2.00 is up! This should be the final release. Here's (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/) a link for convenience. Item descriptions are in, and three bug fixes--two that are in the vanilla game, one that happened via hacking--have happened.

Edit - I'm putting a small bug fix for the odd "To equip" text here.

Quote from: Phoenix
In case anybody wants to use it, here's my fix to this message. For a FF2us ROM with header, paste in the following data at 0DBF2:

8E030E04D0035563646EFF72605C6B6A69FF646E0150046F726AC2635C695F605FC1FFFF00

It changes the window to two lines and the message to "This weapon is two-handed."

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JtmlHRdV1oM/SqwjwUG0p5I/AAAAAAAAAF4/XXduPA1NMlc/s288/This%20weapon%20is%20two-handed.png)

Courtesy of Phoenix Hacks.

I may also soon release an update that adds back in the Assassin Dagger to a chest in the game, the HandAxe to the Mysidia weapon shop, adds a save point in the final area of the final dungeon, and forces Break to be single-target with a long casting delay, though not as long as Warp's. It'd probably be the final update, unless I wanted to go and give certain enemies immunity to Stone status.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 04, 2014, 03:47:53 pm
v2.01 is out! Updates include the integration of FFIV: User Options (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2232/) by chillyfeez.

New controls include:

The Beginner's Classroom has been updated to account for this. Also, the HandAxe and Assassin Dagger are now available to find in-game! The HandAxe was added to the Mist Village weapon shop, while the Assassin Dagger replaced a common item in a chest. Happy hunting! Adding to this, there is now an extra save point in the final dungeon. I lifted this idea from FFIV: Easy Type.

Lastly, I slightly rearranged Rosa and Yang's battle command lists. They now read as thus...
Rosa:
Fight
White
Aim
Pray
Item

Yang:
Fight
Focus
Kick
Brace
Item

Existing saves will work with these updates. There have also been minor typo fixes.

Come and get it! (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 04, 2014, 05:05:13 pm
Not sure if this is a problem with the User Options patch or a patch conflict glitch, but sprinting is a little glitchy. If you toggle sprinting at a weird time (not sure of the exact timing, but I think it's toggle and move at the same time or something like that), it offsets your map position. Reminds me somewhat of the Mistwalker glitch, except not useful.
(http://puu.sh/dhcXR/41a91c03e8.png)
As you can see, I'm standing in water and not aligned with the terrain correctly.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 04, 2014, 05:54:44 pm
Sweet. I'm going to check this out later tonight. I want to create an optional patch, if its possible, to change the name of things to their current names ala GBA/PSP/DS to keeps things up to date. It would be an option to patch over Project II so that folks still would need to download your project first.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 04, 2014, 06:03:20 pm
Huh. User Options was designed in such a way that starting/stopping sprinting should be impossible while moving because of that type of glitch. If you can reproduce it, TheZunar123, let me know what the exact circumstances are so I can figure out how to fix it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 04, 2014, 06:25:48 pm
Yeah, I encountered that too, Zunar. It's weird, but not fatal since you can just zone out. Or you should be able to...

Edit -
I want to create an optional patch, if its possible, to change the name of things to their current names ala GBA/PSP/DS to keeps things up to date.
Not sure if you'd be able to do that entirely due to space restrictions, I wish you luck to do so as much as possible. :) Let me know when it's done.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 04, 2014, 06:36:56 pm
I'll work with what I can. Obviously I might abbreviate some names because of it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 04, 2014, 07:37:54 pm
*shakes a fist at Rodimus* Now I have to wait a bit longer.

Can't you at least do something about Final Fantasy V???:D :D :D

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 04, 2014, 08:25:55 pm
*shakes a fist at Rodimus* Now I have to wait a bit longer.

Can't you at least do something about Final Fantasy V???:D :D :D

Well this is going to be an optional thing. Not all things can be renamed because of space restrictions. But, where its possible things will be to be close or match.

As for FFV, Spooniest did a great job with that, along with RPGe.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 04, 2014, 08:55:04 pm
Yeah, I encountered that too, Zunar. It's weird, but not fatal since you can just zone out. Or you should be able to...
You can zone out, you just have to realize how much the map is offset and compensate. Unless you get yourself stuck. Which is likely to happen.

@chillyfeez: Reproduced it and got some... interesting results. R.I.P. Troia.
(http://puu.sh/dhsXt/567a7870a9.png)

I believe I have a consistent way to do it. Make sure you are walking and then walk in a direction. Before you reach the next tile (about halfway through), toggle. If you sprint through the rest of the tile, you're glitched out.

EDIT: I'm having fun messing around with this actually. Here I am just casually standing on a building.
(http://puu.sh/dhtrF/c0cddc2a55.png)
Actually, casually may be a bit stretching it. I'm actually stuck. I can move one tile up (and back down), but I'm stuck in those two tiles. I was kinda asking for it, lol.

EDIT AGAIN: Don't try this on the world map, kids. Bad things will happen.
(http://puu.sh/dhtLe/6486fbe065.png)

EDIT AGAIN x2: You know what, I'm having so much fun with this glitch I'm gonna make a video just to show you what can happen. brb recording
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 04, 2014, 09:50:20 pm
Yeah.. You're not supposed to be able to toggle while mmoving. That's the problem.
Sorry, folks. That's on me. I'all get a fix out tomorrow. :crazy:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on December 05, 2014, 01:53:28 am
As for FFV, Spooniest did a great job with that, along with RPGe.

Danke schoen.

I was inspired to remove all the cursing by vivify93's Project II...really, unless Tom Slattery says there's cusses, I don't buy it. And he doesn't seem willing to use more than "damn" and possibly "hell" in his FFVI Advance script.

Near as I can guess, from having read that Legends of Localization article, these things happen when the percieved "politeness level" in the Japanese script is difficult to pull off in English due to our comparatively limited social vocabulary. Unless I'm way off, which I'm sure somebody round here will be all too happy to point out.

But Final Fantasy V came off easy...I only regret not being able to fix the text in Mid and Krile's scene on the docked airship together...there's something weird going on there, but at least it looks clean now.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 05, 2014, 02:12:20 am
Yeah, one of my goals was to somewhat follow Nintendo of America's guidelines at the time: no religious content (GodsFury being the only exception due to there be no alternatives I liked, maybe a few less overt religious references?) and no swearing. I was OK with light nudity, the fantasy violence provided by FF, and alcohol references (Although I'm pretty sure I wrote around it in most cases?) though. I'd even like to make the Baron dancer strip again if I could.

Not that I'm against religious content or swearing, I was just trying to make it match the era!

chillyfeez, do you think I could just apply the new User Options over the version applied to Project II?

Edit - I just need to stop and freak out. Tomato is playing Grimoire LD's Combat Boost, meaning he is also playing Project II. Senpai noticed me. Senpai noticed me. Senpai noticed me. SENPAI NOTICED ME MY LIFE IS FUCKING COMPLETE AGFRPH OTRHN IJO! !!!!!!

I apologize for the unprofessionalisms!!!!!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 05, 2014, 08:46:00 am

chillyfeez, do you think I could just apply the new User Options over the version applied to Project II?



I second that. Don't want to screw up the work I'm doing.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 05, 2014, 10:23:27 am
chillyfeez, do you think I could just apply the new User Options over the version applied to Project II?
Yes, once I get it figured out. I worked til midnight last night so I didn't get into anything heavy when I got home, but I was able to reproduce the glitch in my game of Combat Boost, meaning it's been there since the get-go. I guess I never considered people may try to press buttons simultaneously. Or I never considered the game would treat simultaneous button pressing any differently, but it does.
So what I'll have to do is find a script that runs when the player is standing still and does not run when moving - I think I can zero in on the "else" of that which changes the x,y position when the d-pad is pressed, though I'm a bit concerned about whether there will be enough bytes to use there - then squeeze the dash toggle check in there... Anyway, once I figure out how this is going to work, it will all be done with code that overwrites what is already there, so I'll be able to make you a "dash fix" patch specifically for Project II.

Damn. Thought I might get to work on TfW a bit today, but...  :'(
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 05, 2014, 10:45:01 am
Before you do that Chillyfeez, I have another bug related to the sprint toggle. If you have sprint toggled on and then have the airship take you to the Tower of Zot, your movement speed when you get there is crazy fast. Like, airship movement fast. I caught it in my glitch video so you'll get to see it in action once I post the video, which will hopefully be sometime tonight. I'll post it here when it's up.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 05, 2014, 11:13:55 am
That's bizarre, but should be an even easier fix. I imagine that will just be a matter of blanking out a "set speed" instruction that is likely unique to the "airship enters zot" routine (which I have disassembled before... If only slick productions was up right now...).

December 05, 2014, 02:56:55 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Hey, Vivify -
Any thoughts as to why I can't seem to get Project II to patch to my ROM?
SNESTL keeps telling me: "No file cut! IPS2 size error."
I'm kinda baffled...

I'll work on the fixes on my non-project II ROM if I can't get it to work. Theoretically, if it works on a regular FFIV, it should work the same on PII.

December 05, 2014, 05:21:33 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well, OK, granted, I can't seem to actually play Project II, but I am pretty sure I fixed the bugs by working on my regular ROM.
This link (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzRWRbtm4qwcYUVITHFwVGd3d2M/edit?usp=docslist_api) is for a patch that will only fix the problems with UO2.0. It will not add the whole cadre of User Options to a clean ROM. That means, though, that it should work on a copy of Project II v2.01.
The following should be fixed now:

Let me know if you guys find anything else I broke  ;D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 05, 2014, 05:56:33 pm
I'll work on the fixes on my non-project II ROM if I can't get it to work. Theoretically, if it works on a regular FFIV, it should work the same on PII.
I always used Lunar IPS to apply it. The Project needs to be applied to an FFII US v1.1 ROM with a header. Once you apply the patch, though, the ROM becomes unheadered. I hope that helps; a few people reported not using Lunar IPS, and once they switched to it, everything was hunky-dory. Not sure what's going on there. Thanks for the patch anyway!

Edit - Never mind the report that was once here, it seems to be working now.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 05, 2014, 09:41:35 pm
Wait, do I apply the patch to a headered or an unheadered project II 2.0 rom?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 05, 2014, 10:01:55 pm
Here's the glitch video for those curious. Though for some reason there is a weird content ID claim on it that is extremely vague. Doesn't seem to negatively affect the video as far as I know, so it's unlikely I'll bother with disputing it. Makes me question the method YouTube matches the content...

http://youtu.be/jDjoHzfXo1M
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 05, 2014, 10:11:12 pm
Wait, do I apply the patch to a headered or an unheadered project II 2.0 rom?
Headered.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 05, 2014, 11:40:46 pm
Don't worry, guys, I'm gonna submit v2.02 sometime tonight so you can just apply the whole thing to a clean ROM!

Edit - Would anyone like to wait on v2.02 so I can release some supplements along with it? I'd include an item list, an equipment list, a magic list, a shopping list, and a magic acquisition list. Basically, all the cool little "feelies" to make it seem more like a deluxe release. There would be spoilers, but I get the feeling that many people who play Project II: FFIV have played the game before.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 05, 2014, 11:51:14 pm
That sounds like a rather neat idea, I wouldn't mind waiting.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 05, 2014, 11:56:42 pm
I don't mind waiting one bit.

Coincidentally, I've been calling Project II and the Woolsey Edition the 'deluxe' editions of FFIV and VI, so no, no objections whatsoever.

(Now I just need to sort out what would be my 'deluxe' of FFI-III... it feels like there should be more mods before I settle on one for those.)

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 06, 2014, 12:27:32 pm
Ah, right I had nearly forgotten Vivify93... When PinkPuff put the editor together something odd happens whenever you make a change to text and this "marker" so to speak is saved in the final "glitch world" map which takes up one character of space for each message. This may not seem like much but Project II alone had roughly 2300 messages in that map alone. If you delete them you should free up some crucial space for yourself.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on December 06, 2014, 12:38:48 pm
How are you doing sprinting?
Are you increasing the number of pixels the player walks each frame (or whatever), or decreasing the delay (again, number of frames, etc.) between steps?
(I know that came up in Stargazers. These Japanese hacks I've seen that did the former seemed to really bug up the collision detection/encounter rate (well, the latter at least. As for collision detection, you're supposed to somewhat be able to walk through stuff in the game as you level-up.), but I went with the latter.)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 06, 2014, 12:52:57 pm
Sprinting is done in the normal game by events. I think it's a matter of "toggling Sprint" and that is what Chillyfeez tapped into for his sprinting hack. Having used it rather extensively for my project I think I can say it doesn't askew encounter rates at all, nor does it mess with collision detection (except for the aforementioned glitch which has been dealt with.)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 06, 2014, 09:00:49 pm
Ah, right I had nearly forgotten Vivify93... When PinkPuff put the editor together something odd happens whenever you make a change to text and this "marker" so to speak is saved in the final "glitch world" map which takes up one character of space for each message. This may not seem like much but Project II alone had roughly 2300 messages in that map alone. If you delete them you should free up some crucial space for yourself.
I remember that. I cleared all of them a long time ago, actually. I tried to look for space to free in Bank 2 wherever I could! ;D

Edit - While I'm here, I think I'm going to give a list of every text resource that will be in v2.02.

- Item List
- Magic List
- Spell Acquisition List
- Status Glossary
- Weapon List
- Armor List
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on December 06, 2014, 10:10:35 pm
By text resource, you mean like a text file included in the download, right? Or is it some kind of new function to the game itself?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 06, 2014, 10:24:53 pm
While I'm editing for the items, I noticed that the dummy items that you brought back have a space where the items icon is on them, but no item icon. Is there an overflow caused if the dead space used there to fit in a letter is used? Just want to be sure.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 06, 2014, 10:30:37 pm
By text resource, you mean like a text file included in the download, right? Or is it some kind of new function to the game itself?
It's just added .TXT files you can use. Think of it as a digital set of manuals!

While I'm editing for the items, I noticed that the dummy items that you brought back have a space where the items icon is on them, but no item icon. Is there an overflow caused if the dead space used there to fit in a letter is used? Just want to be sure.
The Hand Axe and Assassin Dagger? They should have their correct icons. They did when I tested them...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 06, 2014, 10:31:22 pm
It's there to make sure that the items are properly offset, so you have a weapon and then underneath it you have a battle item... probably easier to just illustrate it...

#Weapon
BombPart
 
Or...
#Weapon
  BombPart

On a sequential list I would think the second option looks best. It really comes down to preference.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 06, 2014, 10:37:53 pm
It's there to make sure that the items are properly offset, so you have a weapon and then underneath it you have a battle item... probably easier to just illustrate it...

#Weapon
BombPart
 
Or...
#Weapon
  BombPart

On a sequential list I would think the second option looks best. It really comes down to preference.

Gotcha. Most items that's fine, but the lack of letters makes abbreviations harder. Changing Notus to Antarctic, perhaps there is a better way to abbreviate it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 07, 2014, 05:53:21 am
I'm in FF4kster now and I'm wondering something about armor. I noticed they have an enemy type bit to set, and I'm writing up the armor list assuming that those bits, when set, reduce the damage taken from that particular enemy type. Is that true, or do they help you attack that enemy type?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 07, 2014, 07:52:40 am
They divide the damage that enemy type does by 1/2, yes. They don't increase damage.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 07, 2014, 11:00:04 am
Gotcha. Most items that's fine, but the lack of letters makes abbreviations harder. Changing Notus to Antarctic, perhaps there is a better way to abbreviate it.

Why that particular renaming? I'm not following for why that works.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 07, 2014, 03:36:34 pm
Notus is an ice spell item. I don't know where that name comes from either. I figured it was a sleep spell item until I used it...

By the way, for anyone interested, slickproductions.org seems to be back up and running. Lots of FFIV info available by clicking around the forum there.  :D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on December 07, 2014, 03:43:35 pm
By the way, for anyone interested, slickproductions.org seems to be back up and running.

It's about time.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 07, 2014, 03:56:28 pm
Why that particular renaming? I'm not following for why that works.

Notus: God of the South Wind. In some translations of FFIV I've seen Antarctic Wind is translated as South Wind. Pretty clever way to stay faithful to the initial game while adding a bit of flavor... but Notus is specifically mentioned as being a warm "fiery" wind... so there's a bit of conflict in that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 07, 2014, 10:48:43 pm
I stole that item name from the PSone translation. ;D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Vanya on December 08, 2014, 06:14:10 am
Notus: God of the South Wind. In some translations of FFIV I've seen Antarctic Wind is translated as South Wind. Pretty clever way to stay faithful to the initial game while adding a bit of flavor... but Notus is specifically mentioned as being a warm "fiery" wind... so there's a bit of conflict in that.

Yeah. It's a greco-roman god and given the location of the Mediterranean a wind coming from the south is sorta coming from a desert  area.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 09, 2014, 02:22:55 pm
This is an amazing project. Thank God I discovered it before purchasing a repro cart based on the J2e translation! You deserve great praise and thanks. Now I really hope you all can apply these skills to fixing the many bugs in Final Fantasy II with a high-quality restoration like this!

My only suggestion is that, a la Final Fantasy Restored, there be options for some of the patches that change gameplay, for the true purists.

Does anyone know if the patch to apply the slower spell progression from the Japanese version can be applied to this? I would like a little extra difficulty, personally, as I enjoyed the Playstation port that kept everything as in the Japanese version.

Again, kudos!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 09, 2014, 02:45:13 pm
You wouldn't need a patch for that, it's a very simple matter with FF4kster, looking up when the spells are learned would only take a trip to the wiki.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 09, 2014, 10:42:01 pm
Do Cecil and Rosa kiss in this version, like in the Japanese one?

I noticed that at the beginning of the game, when Kain tells Cecil to go to bed, the word to seems to be missing. He says "go to bed [to] rest."

In the black magic research room, the magic symbols for Lit and Ice look weird, like some of the pixels are the wrong color. What is this?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 09, 2014, 11:02:44 pm
Speaking of FF4kster, is is there a way to implement the dual letter encoding? I know with it, some things can be named longer. Without the ability to do so, I will have to HEX edit manually. This past week has been crazy for me. Started a new job and they flew me to their corporate office for training. At least I can continue my Project II add-on at night at the hotel.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 09, 2014, 11:13:43 pm
What is your Project II add-on (if you don't mind my asking)?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 09, 2014, 11:18:23 pm
FFIV doesn't allow for DTE in many places, presumably in order to avoid names that run too long for the spaces where they will be displayed.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 09, 2014, 11:20:40 pm
It's an optional add-on that will attempt to rename all monsters, items, and spells in line with current, or close to, Square Enix naming. For example, Rosa's White spell is named Pearl in Project II. I've renamed it Holy. But there isn't room for Blizzard or Thunder, so Ice and Bolt will have to do. I've discovered the dual text encoding that the SNES game has, and can utilize it to stretch out names, but as I'm not sure if FF4kster allows for this. If not I can simply use a HEX editor. Some monsters need just ONE more letter. I did notice that some monsters already have this.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 09, 2014, 11:49:36 pm
Pearl! How did that slip through?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 09, 2014, 11:55:40 pm
Pearl is the name of Holy in FFVI. One of the goals with Project II was to keep it in-line with censorship standards of the era. In the original FFII for SNES Holy is known as White.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 10, 2014, 12:39:48 am
Oooh, got it. Interesting approach.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 10, 2014, 02:26:32 am
Edit - Oh! I almost forgot! v2.02 has been submitted. It implements the latest FFIV: User Options patch by chillyfeez, adds the supplements, and improves the Cry command to actually be useful! Cry now reduces all enemies' Magic Defense by half of Porom's Willpower rating. Thanks to Grimoire LD for help deciding what it should do. :)



Hello, Chrysologus! Thank you so much for playing Project II. I'm glad you're enjoying it! Please feel free to post more impressions and ask any questions about the script or game-play. :) Also, by all means, let me know of any typos that may have wormed their way through.

Do Cecil and Rosa kiss in this version, like in the Japanese one?
They actually always kiss in all SNES-based versions. No frames were removed, unlike how Ian Kelley claimed in his "FFIV to FFII US changes" FAQ. He actually made up a lot of stuff in that FAQ...

I noticed that at the beginning of the game, when Kain tells Cecil to go to bed, the word to seems to be missing. He says "go to bed [to] rest."
Argh, I wish I'd have caught that before submitting v2.02. He now says "go to bed and rest." Thank you for pointing that out; it'll be in the next version! :)

In the black magic research room, the magic symbols for Lit and Ice look weird, like some of the pixels are the wrong color. What is this?
When showing menus, FFIV actually prints the color black as see-through, creating the look of a "hole." The reason why it shows up as black in the battle menu and main menu is because they have black backgrounds. The only way to get around this would be to remove the color black from the black magic icon entirely, and I'm not comfortable with that.

I've discovered the dual text encoding that the SNES game has, and can utilize it to stretch out names, but as I'm not sure if FF4kster allows for this. If not I can simply use a HEX editor. Some monsters need just ONE more letter. I did notice that some monsters already have this.
Do you mean the li / il / ll digraphs I added in? Yeah, I had to put the majority of those in myself in a hex editor...

Oooh, got it. Interesting approach.
Yeah, I definitely wanted to make it seem authentic of the era: no swearing, not many overt religious references, etc. I'm definitely not as militant of it as Nintendo of America was. I make it pretty clear that Cid et al "die," and when it's impossible to write something without referencing religion, (e.g. GodsFury item, Pray command. I could've written around those in a half-baked manner, but it would've sounded completely stupid.) I go ahead an add it in. I also have zero qualms about nudity, since nudity is pretty tame in the FF series. For perspective, I reverted the original dancer sprite (Though, unfortunately, the one in Baron still doesn't strip) and the black orb in the Tower of Zot is now again a guillotine.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 10, 2014, 12:07:30 pm
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant. Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.

It seems that we have been at the mercy of those people who played the Japanese version many years ago and then spread false information! (Sometimes I'm just tempted to learn Japanese since I like learning languages.) First I find out about how bad the fan translation is (which is really a tragedy when you consider the successful translations of II, III, and V), and now that the FAQs contain falsehoods! Can you tell me, then, what exactly was done to the U.S. version to make battles easier? All I could find online, surprisingly, was a vague assertion that (some?) enemies had more HP and did more damage (and that enemies in the back row took half damage like in III). I suppose I could open up the hackster program and then compare the stats there to what's listed on the IV gamercorner.net guide. I wonder if any one else at all would be interested in a hack to restore the original difficulty.

Dual-tile encoding, as I understand it, means that in the text table some entries can be, rather than single letters, two-letter combinations that are common in English (for example, "nd", "ng", "ck"). With enough of these, the number of bytes needed to store text can be greatly reduced. The amount of space on the screen needed to display that text remains the same, of course. This is separate from the digraphs, which although they also save a byte have the primary function of fitting things onto the screen that wouldn't otherwise. I believe dual-tile encoding is built into many games, and apparently IV is one of them.

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.

If I find any more typos, I'll let you know. So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning). Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 10, 2014, 12:33:07 pm
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant. Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.

It seems that we have been at the mercy of those people who played the Japanese version many years ago and then spread false information! (Sometimes I'm just tempted to learn Japanese since I like learning languages.) First I find out about how bad the fan translation is (which is really a tragedy when you consider the successful translations of II, III, and V), and now that the FAQs contain falsehoods! Can you tell me, then, what exactly was done to the U.S. version to make battles easier? All I could find online, surprisingly, was a vague assertion that (some?) enemies had more HP and did more damage (and that enemies in the back row took half damage like in III). I suppose I could open up the hackster program and then compare the stats there to what's listed on the IV gamercorner.net guide. I wonder if any one else at all would be interested in a hack to restore the original difficulty.

Dual-tile encoding, as I understand it, means that in the text table some entries can be, rather than single letters, two-letter combinations that are common in English (for example, "nd", "ng", "ck"). With enough of these, the number of bytes needed to store text can be greatly reduced. The amount of space on the screen needed to display that text remains the same, of course. This is separate from the digraphs, which although they also save a byte have the primary function of fitting things onto the screen that wouldn't otherwise. I believe dual-tile encoding is built into many games, and apparently IV is one of them.

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.

If I find any more typos, I'll let you know. So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning). Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.

Keep up the good work!

I think the reason a lot of these abilities were left out in the first place was because they were terrible. Let me give you a few examples...

Recall - Uses a random spell, 1/8. Here's the reality though... There is a 45% chance when used to only use a basic multi-targeted elemental spell and a 20% chance to miss all together, meaning only 35% of the time might it be doing something useful and there is only a 5% chance that it will be doing something useful on Bosses (Virus)

Salve - Splits a Normal Cure Potion to cure anywhere from 15-20 to the entire party, the definition of pointless, I would say.

Pray - A 50% chance to use Cure 1 on the party Free of MP Cost! Another ill-advised move.

Focus - Doubles attack, seems good on the surface, slight bit of a charge time, not bad right? Well the game doesn't mention that it also cuts Yang's Defense and Magic Defense in Half when he uses it.

Brace - Free Casting of Protect on Self, not really worth much because of how many times you'd have to stack it to see an appreciable difference.

Boast is the only example where I would nod my head and say "This is pretty good." Increase Wisdom by 16 and can be stacked, making each spell cast noticably more powerful than the last.

Cry - Hello most worthless ability in the game! Cry normally does this; cuts enemy's "Steal Defense" (Level+10) by half of Porom's Steal Defense (which never changes from 10) so... it decreases an enemy's Steal Defense - 5 each time it is used. Somewhat useful with Edge... but Porom isn't around Long enough for that to ever occur! I'm not sure what they were thinking when they made this, but there it is all the same. It was rumored for a very long time that Cry cut Run Time in Half, but there Is no Run Time in FFIV, if you can run, you run as soon as your ATB reaches 100% of any character.

Regen - Oh boy... Restores 10 HP in 5 intervals while also taking FuSoYa out of commission to use it! Even early in the game this would be garbage but since it comes so late is even more a slap in the face.


...This is the reason why it's not worth it to make a patch that enables the original functionality of these foolishly implemented abilities.

As for differences between FFII and FFIV SNES and SFC there are a few which makes things easier in English, but not terribly much so... Enemy's HP has been lowered just a tad as have their attack, but these are marginal differences at best and aren't for every enemy. There were a couple AI Pattern changes as well. Both FFII and FFIV have enemies take reduced damage in the backrow. (Technically it's half accuracy and if they're in the backrow attacking a backrow character it's 1/4 accuracy)


Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 10, 2014, 02:45:14 pm
They also reduced the cast times of Twin Magic drastically. It took 16 seconds to cast it in FFIV, but only 6 seconds to cast it in FFII US. The twins can still go out of sync, it's just harder to due to the reduced time. Some other things may have had their casting time lowered, too.

Aside from the graphical differences, the only other thing I can think of is that the Black Robe got its bonus changed from Wisdom +5 to Willpower +5 for some reason.

Edit -
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant.
Thank you! I think I've actually only improved five commands, though--Pray, Cry, Sing, Regen, and Salve, and I didn't even do the latter two of those! I personally think Recall is pretty fair on its own, though maybe it'd be better if it cast the spells for free.

Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.
If I did this, I think I'd basically just be putting in the original spell acquisition rates for Rydia and Rosa, and returning the commands to their old, dinky selves. The two major treasure changes would be the same, and I'm never going to put back the original maps. I'll see if there's demand for the first two changes, though. :) Thank you for the suggestion!

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.
If I wrote it as FenixDown, I would've had to drop the potion icon. Didn't wanna do that at all. I could've gone with FenixDwn or FenxDown, but those look awful to me. I mostly went with Revive Potion because it sounded nice, and that's what it was called in the Final Fantasy II: Shadow of Palakia prototype. Phoenix Potion could be an interesting change, although I think it sounds more like a stat-buffing item. Again, we'll have to let the jury reach a verdict on that!

So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning).
J2e's translation is... pretty bad. I can't mince words here. But it's a part of Final Fantasy history, and I have to give them that, at least.

Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.
Aww, I'm sorry to hear about that! I think Demiforce did a great job on the dialogue, too. I think the three major bugs are the experience bug, the title screen bug, and the Ultima bug. I think I did a graphical cleanup mod that also fixed Ultima, but I'm not sure if I'd ever finish it. I prefer the GBA version.

Thank you for your praise and for letting me know about any typos! :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 10, 2014, 02:57:20 pm
Very informative! Thank you. Obviously it was more misinformation from online FAQs that claimed the back row was removed from the English version. You say the differences in HP and attack power were marginal, but the game seemed quite a bit harder to me! Zeromus in particular seemed harder. Was I just misremembering the difficulty of the original?

Interesting that cry was misunderstood. I wonder what it says about cry in the Japanese instructional manual. With so many fans out there who have translated these games, I'm surprised no one bothered to buy one and read it. The Final Fantasy Wikia claims that cry was supposed to cast confuse on the enemies. Who knows where that information came from, though? In the DS version it halves the enemy's defense. I'm curious: why did you decide to go with magic defense instead? Speaking of the DS verison, they improved Rosa's pray ability both in intensity and by having it restore both HP and MP, and they changed Fusoya's ability to restore MP instead of HP, and made recall able to cast much more powerful spells, so those are other possibilities.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 10, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Whoops, looks like I took too long in my editing. Oh well. I think FFII US mostly seemed easier because of the accelerated spell learning and the fact that Remedies can be bought anywhere cheaply. The multi-target Charm thing apparently stems from the PSP version, which changed Charm to do exactly that.

I did kind of want to change Pray to use a Tincture on the whole team, but FF4kster doesn't support that kind of change. I'd have to see which of the enemy attacks are unused and change it to an MP-healing skill, then set that for Pray. I'm kind of alright with it being a free Cure2 at 70% chance for now.

I went with Magic Defense for a couple reasons... For one, not many enemies actually have a Defense stat in the 2D FFIVs. For another, it makes the twins' powers have synergy. Porom cries and distresses the enemy, lowering their Mag. Def.; Palom boasts about how smart he is, raising his Wis.; and then they twincast a spell on the enemy. Grimoire LD helped me figure that one out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 10, 2014, 03:14:17 pm
Ah, that makes sense, then, about not following the DS for pray or cry. I was just checking to see if you changed Recall when you said that you didn't!

There already is a posted patch for restoring the original spell learning rates. In fact, I was thinking of applying it to my version, though I can't be 100% sure it is compatible with your patch, although I'm guessing it is (?). But, yes, you could incorporate it potentially, at least as an option. By the way, where can I get version 2.02?!

EDIT: I checked some of the monsters with FF4kster, and I would say the differences are significant. For example, CPU has 30,000 HP in the original (per guides.gamercorner.net/ffiv), but only 20,000 in the U.S. version! The monsters also drop less GP/Gil. It looks like it would be easy, if a tad tedious, to make a patch to restore them to the harder originals, so maybe I'll do that....

Re: Final Fantasy II
I'm not sure which experience bug you mean. I know a stat doesn't level up right when a spell is cast against the whole party. A serious bug is how Guy is targeted far too often. Dispel also didn't work, just like in the original. Ripper doesn't work right. Sap doesn't work on enemies over 256 MP. At level 8 Aura doesn't grant its bonus, same with Barrier. I'm forgetting a few minor ones. The title screen has been fixed, thankfully. The targeting and Ultima bugs are the most serious.

I doubt this is a bug, but the light armor could benefit from a different icon, like the cuirass one from Final Fantasy Restored. The diamond armor and cuirass have the same name! I made a hack to do that but never published it. Some item names are bizarre, especially Valium. There are about a half dozen typos, too.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 10, 2014, 04:09:01 pm
Well he just submitted 2.02, waiting for it to be approved.

Me, now I have to wait for 2.03 so I can now stop staring at 'bed rest'. :D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 11, 2014, 12:46:46 am
Hmm, I guess I could make a patch for the original enemy stats and spell learning rates. Not sure if I'd wanna revert the commands, and maps are still out. I will probably do the stats and spells, though.

How did you compare stats exactly, Chrysologus? Did you just open a plain Japanese Final Fantasy IV ROM and Project II and compare the two monster stats? If I can easily do that, I'll probably do so.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 11, 2014, 10:49:09 am
Ah, well, if you're gonna do it, I suppose I shouldn't bother doing it myself (not that it would be hard)!

I opened up Project II to see the SNES stats. FF4kster wouldn't open the Japanese version. However, my past usage of guides.gamercorner.net leads me to believe that the stats provided there are accurate. His analyses of the functions, stats, bugs, and everything of the first three FF games on the NES certainly makes it appear that he is a reliable source of information. The only oddity was that he listed Zeromus's HP at 130,000 instead of 65,000. I believe he may have done that because Zeromus heals himself one time during the battle (my memory is fuzzy but that's what I gathered from another source).

Another option would be to check the official guide for the Playstation port. I feel confident it would have the correct stats. Regrettably, I sold my copy of the guide a year ago!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 11, 2014, 04:09:08 pm
I think I just might do that. I could use the FFIV Advance bestiary or the FF Wiki. I might even be able to combine this with Rodimus Primal's addendum. (Maybe even ask him if he'd add the addendum to my hack as another "feelie?")
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 11, 2014, 05:50:43 pm
I thought FFIV Advance used the easier version in terms of monsters (?). The Wikia appeared to agree with the stats given on the gamercorner guide, although it's worth noting that it gives the same stats for the SNES version, wrongly.

EDIT: Downloading a PDF scan of the Playstation official strategy guide is very easy, I've discovered.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 11, 2014, 10:41:37 pm
That's what I get for basing my info. on the wiki... thanks for the correction Chrysologus! I'll be sure to look through the strategy guide for now on in regards to these things.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 11, 2014, 11:17:29 pm
I'm glad to have helped, especially if it leads to a patch to restore the original difficulty! I already think this is an amazing hack, and that would really be the icing on the cake (for me). I realize some people prefer the easier difficulty because they don't like "grinding."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 12, 2014, 01:51:10 am
FFIV doesn't allow for DTE in many places, presumably in order to avoid names that run too long for the spaces where they will be displayed.

Yup just learned that the hard way. However I did notice some monsters were longer than 8 characters long so DTE has to fit in somewhere. So what letters worked and what HEX editor works? As it stands I'm just trying to come up with a viable solution to naming the 4 elemenatal fiends as close to the originals as possble.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 12, 2014, 10:13:24 am
It looks like v2.02 is up. I never got an email notification about it, though, which is weird.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 12, 2014, 11:02:31 am
The BradyGames guide for FFIV is rather interesting, they're flat out wrong in some parts, but in others they are right on the mark. What surprised me most as an FFIV geek was their use of the Settei Shiryuu Shuu, they translated the sections for the character descriptions.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 12, 2014, 04:52:47 pm
I know it repeats the old claim that cry helps you run and that Dark Matter reduces damage from Black Hole, but since both those do literally nothing, it's understandable that they erred. I'm not aware of any other mistakes, though it doesn't give Zeromus's HP for some reason.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 12, 2014, 05:21:11 pm
Ah, they were a bit lazy with who gets what spells. They seemed to be under the assumption that Tellah relearns all spells. He never learns Flare, Quake, and Holy though.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 12, 2014, 05:55:31 pm
Interesting that cry was misunderstood. I wonder what it says about cry in the Japanese instructional manual. With so many fans out there who have translated these games, I'm surprised no one bothered to buy one and read it. The Final Fantasy Wikia claims that cry was supposed to cast confuse on the enemies. Who knows where that information came from, though? In the DS version it halves the enemy's defense. I'm curious: why did you decide to go with magic defense instead? Speaking of the DS verison, they improved Rosa's pray ability both in intensity and by having it restore both HP and MP, and they changed Fusoya's ability to restore MP instead of HP, and made recall able to cast much more powerful spells, so those are other possibilities.

Well, with Cry, from what I saw in the PSP Final Fantasy IV Collection (which came out post-DS, I think), it did confuse all enemies at once. It's really quite useful in -swarms- of beasts attacking you with millions of spells, especially since the PSP Final Fantasy IV seemed to have brought things back to the original Japanese difficulty rather than the easier modes.

I would note, btw, that I hated GRINDING my way through the Sealed Caverns. Especially in the Interlude and the After Years versions. It was brutal, BRUTAL.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on December 12, 2014, 09:42:07 pm
Ah, they were a bit lazy with who gets what spells. They seemed to be under the assumption that Tellah relearns all spells. He never learns Flare, Quake, and Holy though.
You forgot Death/Fatal.
(and in FF2 of course the three dummied spells: Dispel, Safe/Protect/Armor and Shell)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chronosplit on December 12, 2014, 11:26:04 pm
Am I the only one who's met with a black screen upon patching with the newest version?  Or is this just something on my side?

Pretty sure I'm using the correct version and everything, the last version worked fine with it (a clean ROM for both, of course).
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 12, 2014, 11:50:44 pm
It must have a header when patching, and use a clean ROM version 1.1 of FFIIUS.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chronosplit on December 13, 2014, 12:12:48 am
I checked; I forgot to add a header like I did last time.  Oops. :P

Thanks for that reminder, now it works perfect.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 13, 2014, 11:27:50 am
Yep, and the patch size is much smaller now, because the ROM stays headered after patching.

Whenever Rodimus Primal finishes his more classic FFIV edition of Project II, I'll start on the enemy stats and original spell acquisition rates, then 2.03 will be released! No rush though, Rodimus. :) I'm in no rush.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 13, 2014, 12:57:18 pm
I'm done updating the names of items, spells and monsters in game, but in text stuff is being changed too. Very minor phrases are slightly re-worded to fit the longer character names of Barbariccia and Scarmiglione. I finished Bank 1 and I'm moving onto Bank 2. Joy.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 13, 2014, 01:09:48 pm
Good luck. There is no room in bank 2. Like, none.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 13, 2014, 09:34:29 pm
When some things are renamed, it leaves room for others, believe it or not. So, now what should we call this add on? Project II- Name Update?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 13, 2014, 09:54:20 pm
Project II- Namingway's Revenge.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 13, 2014, 10:40:36 pm
I kind of like it  :laugh: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 14, 2014, 12:02:03 am
Wow, you are working quickly, it sounds like! By the time I'm done playing my FFIII cartridge ;D, the classic and improved FFIV will probably be done! You all are the best. I have such fond memories of this game from when I was a kid, and it's still a blast to play it. (And the DS version!)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 14, 2014, 07:48:23 am
I was thinking Project II: Classic Edition. Namingway's Revenge is kinda cute, though!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 14, 2014, 08:39:13 am
Either one works for me.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 14, 2014, 10:58:54 am
To make it a little less gamey-sounding, how about the Namingway Option?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 17, 2014, 12:48:44 am
Project II - Namingway Edition!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 23, 2014, 02:56:45 am
Namingway Edition is still coming. I'm adjusting the EXP and GP of all enemies. Since I have the "il" digraph in there, maybe I should real quick change the currency to gil too. A few things that can't be done at the moment: 1. Twin Magic's casting time. I don't fully understand how it works, so it will be speedier in Namingway Edition compared to the original Japanese FFIV. 2. The stripping dancer. 3. The original enemy AI, which I think just consists of Asura casting Armor on herself, but I'm not sure.

For a couple of other notices, the original maps and chest graphics will never be put in, including the developer's room. And I'm not going to revert the title screen. Not sure when it'll be out, but eventually it'll come. Hold tight 'til then!

December 26, 2014, 01:15:10 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Happy Boxing Day! Looks like I couldn't make this release a Secret Santa Surprise like I wanted. But, here it is:

http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-03.zip

- Fixed map bugs.
- Fixed typos. (No more "go to bed rest." :p)
- Project II: Namingway Edition is in, with the original enemy EXP drops, GP drops, HP, Strength, Defense, and Magic Defense. Magic Power still needs to be edited, and I'm not sure that enemy MP was changed, but if it was, it's also outta my hands right now. (Grimoire LD has informed me that enemy MP is equal to 1/8 of their HP, so MP has also been updated as a consequence of updating their HP.)

Enjoy, everyone.

Edit - v2.03 has been accepted to RHDN!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 26, 2014, 03:22:29 pm
Its still a Christmas gift nonetheless.  :cookie:

I'll have to check it out with your fixes after I get off work.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 26, 2014, 03:44:44 pm
Magic Power is Spell Power, that can easily be edited by going to "Extras" and selecting "Spell Power". MP is also always 1/8 of an enemy's HP so there's no worry about that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 26, 2014, 05:07:09 pm
Thank you for the info on MP, Grimoire LD. As for Magic Power / Spell Power, it seemed as though I could only edit whether or not an enemy had it, not the actual stat itself.

Edit - It seems I forgot to mention this anywhere, but Rydia and Rosa do have their original spell acquisition rates in Namingway Edition. That was the first thing I did after reviewing Rodimus Primal's alterations to Project II's nomenclature.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 26, 2014, 05:37:49 pm
Thank you for the info on MP, Grimoire LD. As for Magic Power / Spell Power, it seemed as though I could only edit whether or not an enemy had it, not the actual stat itself.

Edit - It seems I forgot to mention this anywhere, but Rydia and Rosa do have their original spell acquisition rates in Namingway Edition. That was the first thing I did after reviewing Rodimus Primal's alterations to Project II's nomenclature.

Ah, you need to press Tab to access the Spell Power, same with any of the Extras.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 26, 2014, 06:06:30 pm
Oh. Well, crap. I guess I need to go through the bestiary again and check to see which enemies have Magic Power. >.> I know a couple of them were changed pretty drastically, too.

Edit 1 - OK, I submitted the new version. For now, here's (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/NamingwayEdition_v1-01.zip) the updated Namingway Edition with the original Magic Power.

Edit 2- Oh, and Rodimus Primal, I did add you to the credits page, we're just waiting for it to be accepted.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 26, 2014, 08:43:54 pm
 :thumbsup: I know. I can see it in the que. Patience is a virtue.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 27, 2014, 02:30:28 am
Hey, vivify - I see you just submitted a review for User Options. Thanks, by the way. It looks like at almost the same time, though, I was releasing a new version.
It's a pretty functionally significant change - turn deferring with x works much better than it used to. The zip contains a patch to be used specifically with ROMs that, like Project II, have already been patched with the previous version.
I think I'm at a point with it where I'm very satisfied, so this will probably be the last update you need to worry about for quite a while.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 27, 2014, 03:04:16 am
I saw that. I have v2.04 ready already with the new User Options, but I'm not going to release it for a while. I'll wait and see if anything bigger shows up before a new release.

You're welcome for the review. I thought if I'm using it, I may as well leave a review for it!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on December 27, 2014, 09:11:24 am
Version 2.03 applied with Namingway Edition, I removed the header. Then readded it just to be sure, then used the "UO2_2 for v2_1 Patched ROM" patch and everything works great. I can say this is the most complete SNES version of Final Fantasy IV, IMO. 
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 27, 2014, 05:37:04 pm
Thanks, Rodimus Primal! :) That's the patch I applied to v2.04. If you all could just remove the header after applying the original patch, (and maybe Namingway Edition if you so desire) then apply User Options for v2.1 Patched ROM, you'd basically get v2.04 as it is now!

Thank you all for supporting me this far. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on December 28, 2014, 12:03:15 pm
Just a quick correction to the most recent post, but it looks like you do need to keep the header on for the patched rom if adding users options update.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on December 28, 2014, 01:41:33 pm
This project exploded like a whirlwind, great job everybody

I'm pleased to see some quality romhacking going on with FFIV and V these days. It's a bit more difficult to work with them than VI, which is (I guess) why people tend to gravitate towards it.

Cheers!  :beer:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on December 28, 2014, 02:51:53 pm
She'll never admit it (or probably even acknowledge it might be true), but it all comes back to pinkpuff for FFIV.
Research on IV really exploded over on slick once she developed FF4kster.
Now that all of the routine hacking can be done easily, efficiently and reliably, those of us who are interested in really complicated and/or large-scale stuff can devote more time and energy to that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 28, 2014, 04:45:50 pm
She'll never admit it (or probably even acknowledge it might be true), but it all comes back to pinkpuff for FFIV.
Research on IV really exploded over on slick once she developed FF4kster.
Now that all of the routine hacking can be done easily, efficiently and reliably, those of us who are interested in really complicated and/or large-scale stuff can devote more time and energy to that.

Without a doubt Chillyfeez, before PinkPuff made FF4kster we were using old and generally broken editors (except for JCE's but that didn't have enough features).However with each update there has been added more and more malleability. As Chillyfeez says without FF4kster we likely wouldn't bother, due to the tediousness of jumping back and forth through several editors and doing a good too many things by hex.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on December 28, 2014, 10:13:38 pm
Wow, that was fast! Amazing. Can't wait to try it out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 29, 2014, 09:19:39 am
Enjoy, Chrysologus. :) It was made with people like you in mind, who want FFIV's original battle difficulty!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 01, 2015, 06:05:06 pm
I was eagerly anticipating playing Final Fantasy II for the very first time with this patch, but I seem to have run into a roadblock; no matter what ROM I try, I can't get this patch to work! I've tried the rev 1 ROM from my No- Intro set, as well as numerous Final Fantasy II (U) [!] (v1.1) ROMs from around the web, but to no avail.

If anyone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction as to where a compatible ROM is hosted, it would be greatly appreciated. I apologize in advance if this violates any terms of this website; any help at all would be appreciated, please feel free to post either here of PM me any link/file.

As a quick aside, I plan to play this hack on a SDSNES flash cart on real hardware. Is this patch compatible with copiers?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 01, 2015, 06:31:41 pm
We cannot tell you where to find a ROM, The_Atomik_Punk!. I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I must ask: are you using a headered ROM? If not, that might be the root of your problems. Also, are you hard-patching or soft-patching?

I don't know if Project II is compatible with copiers, either. I want to say it is, but it might end up being more trouble than it's worth to test. I have no means of testing this, either.

Thank you for your interest in the Project. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Q on January 01, 2015, 07:28:57 pm
This looks pretty cool and I'll probably play through it at some point, but I do have one suggestion after looking at the screenshots. When you include the name of the character who is talking, put a space between the colon and the dialogue. It looks better and makes the text easier to read.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 01, 2015, 08:18:39 pm
We cannot tell you where to find a ROM, The_Atomik_Punk!. I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I must ask: are you using a headered ROM? If not, that might be the root of your problems. Also, are you hard-patching or soft-patching?

I don't know if Project II is compatible with copiers, either. I want to say it is, but it might end up being more trouble than it's worth to test. I have no means of testing this, either.

Thank you for your interest in the Project. :)

I can appreciate that, but could someone at least point me in the right direction? As I said, I've tried over 8 ROMs, so clearly something is not working; this is also definitely not my first time patching a ROM either, so I'm not doing something completely boned-headed.

I'm using Lunar IPS to patch the ROM. That's something I've never understood- what's a header, and how do you check if your ROM has one?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 01, 2015, 08:33:28 pm
If your ROM registers as 1025 KB, then it has a header.
If it is 1024, then it does not.
If it does have a header, removing it is simple. Just download SNESTool (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/18/), and use the "delete header" function.
My guess is that that's the problem.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 01, 2015, 08:38:50 pm
If your ROM registers as 1025 KB, then it has a header.
If it is 1024, then it does not.
If it does have a header, removing it is simple. Just download SNESTool (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/18/), and use the "delete header" function.
My guess is that that's the problem.

Hey man, thanks for the pointers, that completely fixed my ROM! Thanks again vivify93, If you'll excuse me now, I'm off to experience Final Fantasy II for the first time, with your patch all fired up!

EDIT: For the record vivify93, I tested this patch on the SD2SNES flashcart on a real SNES (RGB modded SNES Mini), and it works great. You might want to advertise this hack as copier compatible, that's certainly an awesome feature.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on January 02, 2015, 12:45:49 am
Hey man, thanks for the pointers, that completely fixed my ROM! Thanks again vivify93, If you'll excuse me now, I'm off to experience Final Fantasy II for the first time, with your patch all fired up!

EDIT: For the record vivify93, I tested this patch on the SD2SNES flashcart on a real SNES (RGB modded SNES Mini), and it works great. You might want to advertise this hack as copier compatible, that's certainly an awesome feature.

:/ Damn. That is fortunate.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 02, 2015, 03:50:21 am
Hey man, thanks for the pointers, that completely fixed my ROM! Thanks again vivify93, If you'll excuse me now, I'm off to experience Final Fantasy II for the first time, with your patch all fired up!
Did you need to add a header or remove one? I'm curious, since Project II requires a header...

For the record vivify93, I tested this patch on the SD2SNES flashcart on a real SNES (RGB modded SNES Mini), and it works great. You might want to advertise this hack as copier compatible, that's certainly an awesome feature.
Awesome! I think that I might add that in. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 02, 2015, 12:17:55 pm
Did you need to add a header or remove one? I'm curious, since Project II requires a header...
Awesome! I think that I might add that in. :)

Turns out that I had to add in a header to my header-less ROM- now I know!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 02, 2015, 12:36:18 pm
Also curious, are you using the original or have you added the Namingway Edition?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 02, 2015, 12:50:08 pm
Also curious, are you using the original or have you added the Namingway Edition?
As recommended by vivify93 in the patch readme, I did not add in the Namingway Edition patch- this is my very first time playing Final Fantasy II/IV, after all.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 03, 2015, 11:29:32 am
What's an SNES flashcart?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 03, 2015, 11:43:22 am
You can load a ROM onto it and plug it into an actual console to play.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 07, 2015, 10:53:41 pm
Hey guys, I'm really enjoying my first ever play-through of Final Fantasy IV. I have a question about the option for battle style in the the custom section of the menu with this patch. What option is recommended by you guys; wait, or active (I think it defaults to wait)? I honestly can't notice the difference; the characters ATG percentages still fill up at varying rates as observed by hitting Select. Does it modify whether enemies can act concurrently to you, as opposed to "waiting" for all of your party to act first? I suppose my question is, what was the default battle style of the vanilla game, and which style do you recommend to a first time Final Fantasy IV player. For context, this may be my first time playing this game, but I am not new to JRPGS, nor do I suck at them. 
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 08, 2015, 12:32:17 am
Active means that even if you are scrolling through menus in mid battle, the monsters can still take their turns and attack. Also their own ATB will fill during this time. If you have it on Wait, its like their turn and their ATB goes on pause until you select an item or spell or choose a monster to attack. It's helpful to the newbie to RPGs who has a difficult time adjusting to the menus.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on January 08, 2015, 12:41:00 am
More specifically, "Wait" mode pauses the enemy ATB only WHILE the player has an item or spell menu open. Active does not pause at all.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 08, 2015, 02:34:57 am
But just FYI, The_Atomik_Punk!, whereas the Japanese version gave the player the choice, it was eliminated from the original US version. The US SNES version (the basis of Project II) could only be played in Wait mode.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 08, 2015, 01:10:15 pm
Thank you all for the insight, I'm perfectly clear on the difference now!


But just FYI, The_Atomik_Punk!, whereas the Japanese version gave the player the choice, it was eliminated from the original US version. The US SNES version (the basis of Project II) could only be played in Wait mode.

So... do you recommend that I keep it at Wait, or is it a matter of personal preference? I'm leaning towards Wait myself, as it gives me some time to consider all of the options/spells, particularly when I acquire a new character for the very first time, and want to think about what to select in combat.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 08, 2015, 01:23:56 pm
It's a matter of preference, really.
In the Final Fantasy games in which the option comes standard, the default option is Wait.
A lot of people find the game to be too easy in general, and Active mode does add an extra element of challenge.
Personally, I'm a pretty big Final Fantasy fanatic, but I tend to opt for Wait mode.
I don't think the choice really has any serious implications on your overall game experience.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 08, 2015, 01:27:23 pm
It's a matter of preference, really.
In the Final Fantasy games in which the option comes standard, the default option is Wait.
A lot of people find the game to be too easy in general, and Active mode does add an extra element of challenge.
Personally, I'm a pretty big Final Fantasy fanatic, but I tend to opt for Wait mode.
I don't think the choice really has any serious implications on your overall game experience.

Thanks for the insight, I just wanted to make sure it doesn't dramatically alter the experience in any significant way; Wait mode it is!

January 08, 2015, 08:32:16 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I have a question for the translators and makers of this awesome patch. I just got to Fabul, and added Yang to my party. This guy seems absolutely Boss, right up my alley- only there's one small problem. He's listed as a "Black Belt" for his profession, yet from what I gather, he was originally called a Monk in the US Final Fantasy II.

Now, I'm aware of the black belt class from the original N.A Final Fantasy, but to me, this re-translation for Yang is not fitting in tone or context at all. His character, both physically and emotionally, is clearly modeled after that of a Chinese Shaolin Monk, a monastic order originating in mainland China. Practitioners of Kung Fu, particularly of the Shaolin monastic order, don't adhere to the martial conventions of Japanese Karate (which are completely disparate), where the title of Black Belt would be more apt.

I must say, as someone who studies various martial disciplines, this incongruity is quite glaring to me. If this character was named Yoshi, and trained in a Dojo with other karateka (practitioners of Karate) in a Gi, and cut his Shaolin braid, I'd be cool. As he's represented in the game, Yang is clearly based on an ethnically Chinese Shaolin Monk practicing Kung Fu, not a Japanese Karateka practicing Karate.

I'm curious as to the reasoning behind the translators decision to change "Monk" to "Black Belt". I apologize if this seems like nit picking; I'm genuinely interested in making this suggestion as an effort to potentially improve this phenomenal patch however slightly.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 08, 2015, 11:53:29 pm
That's a very astute observation Atomik Punk! Yes, while not mentioned in the SNES version Fabul is a monastic kingdom and Yang's proper class is "High Monk" as he's the leader of the Monk's in Fabul and yes, he is an Awesome character. Probably better than Cecil in several ways when it comes to fighting.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 09, 2015, 01:00:01 am
Well, if you've studied martial arts, then you're gonna love this... In general, the Final Fantasy series tends to play pretty fast and loose with martial arts terms. In the original US translation, Yang's class is "Karate," and while that may have been changed several times in various official translations, I believe he is nonetheless regularly referred to as a "karate master of Fabul" in dialogue.
His equipment serves to further blur the lines... Bandanna, headband, black belt, karate, kenpo gi.
I don't study martial arts at all, so it doesn't really bother me, because what do I know?

But, hey, if you like that, wait til you get Prince Edge, the "Ninja."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Midna on January 09, 2015, 01:25:08 am
Most later translations call Yang a monk, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 09, 2015, 01:46:00 am
I'd forgotten that. I thought Namingway would've caught this.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 09, 2015, 06:31:07 am
I believe that I changed it in the Namingway Edition but I know The_Atomic_Punk is playing it without. Also Namingway Edition is slightly more difficult as the values for HP with monsters matches the Japanese FF4.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 09, 2015, 07:46:32 am
Maybe Yang is a Karateka (a job from Final Fantasy III)? The DS version translates that as "Black Belt."

...

Or maybe he's a Supermonk (the upgraded job from FF)! Has anyone checked what the Japanese text says in FFIV? As a boss, he was called "Monk," wasn't he?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 09, 2015, 01:16:35 pm
Yang was definitely intended to be a monk. I was trying to make it consistent with FFI changing the "Karate Man" (That's what they were called. ACHOOO!!!) to a Black Belt, but if it's enough of a problem, I could change the Kingdom of Fabul to be monks. And yeah, Namingway Edition changed the black belts to monks. Anyone have thoughts on this?

According to the Big Book of FFIV Lies by Ian Kelley, Yang was a High-Monk originally.

Edit - Chrysologus, Karateka were changed to Black Belts in FFIII Remake! Beyond that, there's not enough room for Karateka, unless you want to abbreviate it as Karteka or Karatka.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 09, 2015, 01:39:36 pm

But, hey, if you like that, wait til you get Prince Edge, the "Ninja."


Edge the Ninja Prince, that sound awesome, albeit a little cliche at this point in JRPGS (though I have no doubt that Final Fantasy IV was probably the innovator originally). I'm foreseeing an exiled prince in hiding, who is still loyal to his kingdom, and dons a disguise (kind of a Shakesperean King Lear noble Kent sort of a fellow...). I'm looking forward to encountering this guy, I'm always down for some Ninjitsu action!

I believe that I changed it in the Namingway Edition but I know The_Atomic_Punk is playing it without. Also Namingway Edition is slightly more difficult as the values for HP with monsters matches the Japanese FF4.

Good looking out, Rodimus Primal. I checked the readme txt of the Namingway patch, and noticed the alteration to Monk. That to me is a very compelling reason to add your patch, but I'm not necessarily looking for a more difficult experience (although I'm finding it very easy at this point) for my first play-through; I'm really enjoying the relaxed pace of this game. I am however looking forward to your upcoming Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition hack, as I haven't played that game before either, and would definitely like to use your improvements for my first play-through.

Yang was definitely intended to be a monk. I was trying to make it consistent with FFI changing the "Karate Man" (That's what they were called. ACHOOO!!!) to a Black Belt, but if it's enough of a problem, I could change the Kingdom of Fabul to be monks. And yeah, Namingway Edition changed the black belts to monks. Anyone have thoughts on this?

According to the Big Book of FFIV Lies by Ian Kelley, Yang was a High-Monk originally.

Edit - Chrysologus, Karateka were changed to Black Belts in FFIII Remake! Beyond that, there's not enough room for Karateka, unless you want to abbreviate it as Karteka or Karatka.

For what it's worth vivify93, please add my support for calling Yang a Monk, as well as the order of Fabul being a monastic one. This to me for the outside contextual reasons I outlined earlier would be both a sound a beneficial revision to your hack.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 09, 2015, 02:25:38 pm

Edge the Ninja Prince, that sound awesome, albeit a little cliche at this point in JRPGS (though I have no doubt that Final Fantasy IV was probably the innovator originally). I'm foreseeing an exiled prince in hiding, who is still loyal to his kingdom, and dons a disguise (kind of a Shakesperean King Lear noble Kent sort of a fellow...). I'm looking forward to encountering this guy, I'm always down for some Ninjitsu action!
Haha, no, that might be a reasonable interpretation of "Ninja."
Edge is a fun character to play with/as, but his version of "ninja" bastardizes the concept about as much as one could possibly imagine.
I won't spoil it anymore. You'll see what I mean soon enough.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on January 09, 2015, 03:39:40 pm
Yang's class in FF4 was モンクそう
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 09, 2015, 03:49:25 pm
Yang's class in FF4 was モンクそう

Cool, so for us Kanji-challenged Anglophones, could you fill us in on the meaning/translation as you interpret it?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 09, 2015, 04:34:23 pm
Mo-n-ku (monk)
Are the katakana (the first three).
The latter two are hiragana, which signifies something actually in Japanese. I can read katakana, but I don't speak Japanese, but the beginning portion says as much as needs to be said.
 :D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 09, 2015, 05:03:02 pm
Good catch there Chillyfeez, some quick searching about seems to say that it is actually "chief".

[じゅうそう] chief priest (of a Buddhist temple)

[じょうとうへいそう] chief petty officer


So it looks as if it's "Monk Chief" which I can understand as being retranslated to High Monk then since it's a religious order.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 09, 2015, 05:18:02 pm
Good catch there Chillyfeez, some quick searching about seems to say that it is actually "chief".

[じゅうそう] chief priest (of a Buddhist temple)

[じょうとうへいそう] chief petty officer


So it looks as if it's "Monk Chief" which I can understand as being retranslated to High Monk then since it's a religious order.

That's pretty clear-cut to me; I'm all for Yang being a High Monk as opposed to a Black Belt- what are your thoughts vivify93?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Midna on January 09, 2015, 08:19:09 pm
I always interpreted it as "モンク僧", which is basically "monk-monk".
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 09, 2015, 09:01:38 pm
That's pretty clear-cut to me; I'm all for Yang being a High Monk as opposed to a Black Belt- what are your thoughts vivify93?
He wouldn't be a High Monk, but a Hi-Monk if I went the route of adding his honorific--not enough room for the full word! Regardless, I'm tentatively saying "yes" to making him a Monk of some sort, and I'd like to give my reasoning.

1. Official release chronology of the main series (FFI, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFV in Anthology, etc.) had the Monk job as Black Belt, Karate Man, and then the term didn't show up again until FFV saw release. It was called Monk.

2. Release chronology including fan work (FFI, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFII, FFV, FFIII, FFVIII, etc.) calls the job a Monk in all fan translations.

I'd like a few more thoughts about this, though. Anyone have any objections or ideas or general thoughts about changing the Black Belts of Fabul to Monks in the vanilla Project II patch?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 09, 2015, 09:53:04 pm
No objections here. Sounds great to me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 09, 2015, 10:20:59 pm
Monk seems reasonable since "High Monk" won't fit. Plus, it recalls the jobs from FF and FF III, which is nice consistency.

I wouldn't say that they "changed" karateka to black belt, as much as that they translated the Japanese word into English as "black belt." The word karateka barely qualifies as an English word (although it is in the Oxford English Dictionary); very obscure. Since it means one who practices karate, "black belt" is a reasonable translation, given the context. It also honors the original Final Fantasy (for which it was obviously a change since they were avoiding the religious reference of a Buddhist monk).

It's interesting that in FF III the monk job is replaced by the superior karateka. What does that imply? At that point is the level of violence simply too high to be acceptable to a Buddhist monk?  :angel:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 09, 2015, 11:07:04 pm
He wouldn't be a High Monk, but a Hi-Monk if I went the route of adding his honorific--not enough room for the full word! Regardless, I'm tentatively saying "yes" to making him a Monk of some sort, and I'd like to give my reasoning.

1. Official release chronology of the main series (FFI, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFV in Anthology, etc.) had the Monk job as Black Belt, Karate Man, and then the term didn't show up again until FFV saw release. It was called Monk.

2. Release chronology including fan work (FFI, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFII, FFV, FFIII, FFVIII, etc.) calls the job a Monk in all fan translations.

I'd like a few more thoughts about this, though. Anyone have any objections or ideas or general thoughts about changing the Black Belts of Fabul to Monks in the vanilla Project II patch?

Sorry vivify93, I didn't mean to suggest that Yang be labelled as a High Monk in game, rather that High Monk would be contextually what I see his character as having as an honorific title, being the leader of the monastic order of Fabul. Monk would work perfectly for my sensibilities. As an aside, if this is hypothetically amended in the hack, would this update be save-compatible (with v 2.03)? In other words, should I put my play-through on hold (currently Cecil just became a Paladin) in anticipation of the update?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 10, 2015, 12:15:49 pm
There's no reason why it shouldn't be compatible, The_Atomik_Punk!. I'll start working on this, then.

Edit - Just submitted it! It'll be up sooner or later.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 10, 2015, 02:06:54 pm
There's no reason why it shouldn't be compatible, The_Atomik_Punk!. I'll start working on this, then.

Edit - Just submitted it! It'll be up sooner or later.

That's awesome man, much appreciated! Will the updated hack reflect the change by a different version number (that is to say, will it be listed as something other that v 2.03 on the download page), or will it be an updated into the existing v2.03? As soon as I have it patched up properly, I'll drop a line to confirm that it's save compatible.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 10, 2015, 02:13:35 pm
Namingway Edition remains the same, yes?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 10, 2015, 04:33:03 pm
Namingway Edition actually got an update to put in Yang's name variable in a line where it wasn't before. And the new version is v2.04. It's up!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 10, 2015, 05:13:56 pm
Yep, v 2.04 working great with my existing save on real hardware- thanks again for considering my feedback, vivify93! I can now feel good about busting some heads with Yang, and the new addition of the latest version of chillyfeez’s FFIV: User Options patch to skip turns immediately is really handy as well!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 10, 2015, 05:52:29 pm
You made it into the credits, too, since I consider this such a significant change!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 10, 2015, 06:21:18 pm
You made it into the credits, too, since I consider this such a significant change!

Ah man, that's funny; I just checked the readme change-log- thanks for the credit!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: kahlil88 on January 11, 2015, 01:54:28 am
Not that I have the proper equipment ATM, but will this game play on an actual SNES or are some of these patches and bugfixes to address problems with emulators?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 11, 2015, 02:53:57 am
Not that I have the proper equipment ATM, but will this game play on an actual SNES or are some of these patches and bugfixes to address problems with emulators?

You'll be pleased to know my man that this patch is 100% compatible with real hardware. I'm currently playing through it on my RGB modded SNES Mini by using a SD2SNES flashcart, and it's kickin'!

As an aside vivify93, I think it would be great to mention on the hack's download page that it's copier compatible; that's an absolutely phenomenal feature of this hack for me. Besides individuals with flashcarts, I can see some distributors wanting to burn your hack onto real carts.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 11, 2015, 01:48:38 pm
Please do not download v2.04; the Namingway Edition ZIP file contained within has an actual ROM file in it!!!

I am currently attempting to contact a moderator to get the current Project II's ZIP file status changed into either a temporary takedown until the new package, which I have uploaded, is processed, or to get the ROM-free package uploaded immediately.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation, and time. Have a lovely day.

Edit - I wouldn't be comfortable with people selling my work, The_Atomik_Punk!. For one thing, that's illegal; for another, I put a lot of work into this for no money, and I wouldn't see it as fair. I might advertise it as copier compatible, but I worry for the fact that people will by selling copies of Project II illegally.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 11, 2015, 05:59:31 pm
Please do not download v2.04; the Namingway Edition ZIP file contained within has an actual ROM file in it!!!
Edit - I wouldn't be comfortable with people selling my work, The_Atomik_Punk!. For one thing, that's illegal; for another, I put a lot of work into this for no money, and I wouldn't see it as fair. I might advertise it as copier compatible, but I worry for the fact that people will by selling copies of Project II illegally.

I completely understand and agree with your perspective. I see now that my previous post was poorly worded; I meant to imply by my last statement that while it may be good to advertise that it works on flash carts, it may attract the attention of the repro scene. Sorry if that was unclear.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 11, 2015, 06:42:09 pm
Oh, OK, I get it now; my apologies. :)

Edit - Well, I was just about to tell you that v2.04 is now offline, but it appears that the gracious and kind snarfblam has just approved the ROM-free package. Thanks so much to them!

New in this version: incorporates the latest of chillyfeez's FFIV User Options and changes the Black Belts of Fabul to be Monks.

Let's hope I don't screw up again, eh?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 12, 2015, 02:28:16 pm
Hey vivify93, I just played through the scene at Baron castle after defeating the Water Fiend (what a wimp!) where Cid shows up. When Porom is introducing the whole gang to Cid, he introduces Yang as a "Black Belt from Fabul." I don't know if you were going for a consistent narrative throughout, but I thought I'd mention that one instance that I just played through, in light of the latest v 2.04 change of Yang to Monk.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 12, 2015, 04:35:03 pm
I searched the word "black" in a hex editor, since it's not affected by DTE, and nothing showed. I must not've searched it thoroughly. Thank you, The_Atomik_Punk!. I'll get on a v2.05...

Edit - Here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-05.zip) is a quick v2.05 fix for that. Please let me know of any more inconsistencies. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 12, 2015, 06:45:14 pm
I searched the word "black" in a hex editor, since it's not affected by DTE, and nothing showed. I must not've searched it thoroughly. Thank you, The_Atomik_Punk!. I'll get on a v2.05...

Edit - Here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-05.zip) is a quick v2.05 fix for that. Please let me know of any more inconsistencies. :)

Hey no worries man. I'll drop you a quick line as I play through your hack if anything glaring pops out at me. Thanks for the update patch!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 12, 2015, 10:45:46 pm
And tonight, Tomato is streaming Combat Boost again, and for once I'm here. I am so, so happy. Week made.

Edit - Oh, and v2.05 is live on RHDN.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 21, 2015, 02:24:36 pm
I just started playing with the new patch (v2-05) and the Namingway Edition, and it still says "Go back to your room rest". I thought that was fixed? Is there any chance I somehow botched this?

Also, it should say "like Kain and me," not "like Kain and I" when Cecil is talking to himself in bed.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 21, 2015, 02:34:47 pm
No, it probably has yet to be fixed in Namingway Edition. I was hoping that would've been updated automatically but apparently not.

Edit 1 - That was exactly the problem. It's fixed now. I don't want to run out and upload a new patch right now since it's such a tiny problem. That reminds me, there's probably formatting issues now since I changed the black belts of Fabul to monks but I really don't feel like testing that right now... I'll get to it soon though. For now, if anyone wants to--can anyone confirm if any of the Fabul dialogues referencing the monks with Namingway Edition have futzed formatting in any way?

Edit 2 - "Kain and me" fixed in both patches. Good eye, Chrysologus!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 21, 2015, 06:20:05 pm
I'll have to check tonight looking over the revamped versions. I haven't looked at them since I started work on Final Fantasy 2 (which I'm currently walking away from until I can better learn to fix pointers without Jade). I'm surprised Namingway Edition didn't update text that wasn't changed. Is there any bits of dialogue that I should look over specifically?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 21, 2015, 09:32:53 pm
You're not the first person ever to walk away from FF II, that's for sure!  :laugh:

Has any thought been given to removing the blue color that identifies hidden passages in the US release?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 22, 2015, 07:43:26 am
I'm surprised Namingway Edition didn't update text that wasn't changed. Is there any bits of dialogue that I should look over specifically?
Fabul castle pre- and post-attack, meeting Yang on top of Mt. Ordeals, and Porom introducing Yang to Cid post-Cagnazzo. I can do some of these if you don't want to; I was just very tired last time I posted.

Has any thought been given to removing the blue color that identifies hidden passages in the US release?
No, because beyond adding the extra save point in the final dungeon and fixing whatever FF4kster corrupts, I'm not touching the maps.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 22, 2015, 08:30:58 am
Wasn't Yang referred to somewhere in the Sylph caverns?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 22, 2015, 09:08:37 am
Not by his job title, though.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 22, 2015, 09:16:29 am
I'll get to it. I started last night but I'm still going through it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 22, 2015, 10:58:30 pm
Regarding the Namingway Edition, shouldn't DryEther be Hi-Ether?

Oh, I literally just got to this: When Tellah appears on Mt. Ordeals, there's a line break in his dialogue after "Golbez with my magic. I've" and before "been hunting for the".
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 22, 2015, 11:05:33 pm
Regarding the Namingway Edition, shouldn't DryEther be Hi-Ether?

Oh, I literally just got to this: When Tellah appears on Mt. Ordeals, there's a line break in his dialogue after "Golbez with my magic. I've" and before "been hunting for the".

Dry Ether has (and to my knowledge always has been) the proper translation of Level 2 Ethers throughout the series.

I recall reading what that meant at one point, but I can't remember.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 22, 2015, 11:20:52 pm
Dry Ether has (and to my knowledge always has been) the proper translation of Level 2 Ethers throughout the series.

I recall reading what that meant at one point, but I can't remember.

Yep. Diethyl ether is a mixture of ether and alchohol and was used as a general anesthetic prior to 1917.

In Final Fantasy IV specifically its known as a Dry Ether. Probably the best an English to Japanese, BACK to English translation can be. All things considered.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 22, 2015, 11:43:07 pm
According to the FF Wikia, it's Haiēteru in Japanese, and is translated Hi-Ether in The 4 Heroes of Light (DS, 2010). However, it is still Dry Ether in the DS version, so that's strange.

Also, I found another apparent typo: after Cecil becomes a paladin, he says "What's feeling?" It is supposed to be "What's this feeling?"?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 22, 2015, 11:51:34 pm
エーテルドライ

Appears to be what the actual Japanese is and that does translate to "Ether Dry". And indeed when you put that into Google a bunch of FF searches come up so it look to honestly be "Ether Dry" rather than "Hi-Ether".

Surprisingly Dry Ethers were only in FFI Dawn of Souls, FF4, FF4TA, and FF5 so quite likely it is Hi-Ether in most other games, but not in FFIV.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on January 23, 2015, 12:47:45 am
Wow, they had several different names.

So... Ether was also known as Tincture, Ether Dry = Hi-Ether = Ether in the Woolsey translation of FF6 and Turbo Ether = Super Ether = X-Ether?

Didn't Chrono Trigger have four levels of Ether (despite a 99 MP max? :P) 10, 30, 60, full?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 23, 2015, 02:29:13 am
Quote
Didn't Chrono Trigger have four levels of Ether (despite a 99 MP max? :P) 10, 30, 60, full?


Yes. Exactly. (SNES names)
Ether 10
Mid Ether 30
Full Ether 60
Hyper Ether full restore
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 23, 2015, 07:54:00 am
Oh, I literally just got to this: When Tellah appears on Mt. Ordeals, there's a line break in his dialogue after "Golbez with my magic. I've" and before "been hunting for the".
I just checked Vanilla vs. Namingway and it looks like it was induced by Namingway, so, fixed. :)

Also, I found another apparent typo: after Cecil becomes a paladin, he says "What's feeling?" It is supposed to be "What's this feeling?"?
Fixed in both patches. I think I'm going to wait until you're done with your play-through before releasing v2.06, if that's OK. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 24, 2015, 12:21:33 am
I'm working on some tweaks to Namingway now. I should be be finished shortly but I will allow vivify93 to update since he might be making improvements on Vanilla.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 24, 2015, 03:39:16 pm
Thank you, Rodimus Primal! :) Namingway v1.02 will be out in Project II v2.06 for sure.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 24, 2015, 07:10:11 pm
How do you two sort out the fixes to the Namingway Edition anyway, in terms of organization / corresponding to make sure you don't erase something the other fixes?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 24, 2015, 08:24:16 pm
Well... we didn't, kind of. So, from now on, Namingway is just going to be its own patch to apply to an unmodified FFII US v1.1 ROM.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 24, 2015, 08:55:21 pm
Basically Namingway still is an added option, its easier just to to only have to apply one patch. So, moving foward upon the next release of Project II, you still download the whole package. Namingway Edition is still included but you only have to apply that patch to a clean FFII US 1.1 headered ROM. Since vivify93 and I both want this project to be as complete as possible, we both can still work on it without hiccups.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 24, 2015, 09:59:53 pm
So you two will provide separate patches, and basically tell each other what you changed and HOPE you don't muck each other up this way.

Makes sense.

Good luck with that. ;)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 24, 2015, 11:11:43 pm
Speaking of Namingway Edition, I find it a bit strange that some of the weapons and armor (i.e., those with short names) end with "Helm" or "Shld" or "Claw," but the rest don't. Why include the "Helm," etc., even if the name happens to be short? It seems inconsistent to me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 25, 2015, 12:20:32 am
Depends upon the item, and spacing constraints of course. Some were kept the same from the original US translation, which is consistent with Square names.  However, I am inclined to alter this. Claws make sense to have the name claw at the end of them even though it doesn't fit with Thunder and Fairy Claws. Some weapons are different in the end of their names, like Icebrand. However, I'm looking back over the weapons and armor again before the next release. Let me know of any that stick out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 25, 2015, 08:45:58 am
I wish someone had said something to me. Adding in the equipment type wherever possible was a thing Project II did since its initial release; it wasn't something done by Rodimus Primal, so it's not his fault. That aside, this is the third time I've heard people say they dislike it, so of course I can edit the ones that stick out in Vanilla, like DarkHelm and DarkShld and LitArrow.

Edit 1 - OK, here's how it's going down! Basically, if a piece of equipment was part of a set (IronShld, DarkHelm, IceArmor) and the rest of the set, or the majority of the rest of the set, didn't have enough room to spell out its type, (e.g. Cecil's arsenal at the start: {sword}Dark, {shield}DarkShld, {helm}DarkHelm, {armor}Dark, {glove}Dark) its extra word is gone. (Now his arsenal is {sword}Dark, {shield}Dark, {helm}Dark, {armor}Dark, {glove}Dark)

Furthermore, if only one piece of the entire family of equipment has its type added, none of them have it. (e.g. {arrow}IceArrow, {spear}IceLance)

However, if it's pretty clearly not part of a larger set ({ring}RubyRing, {claw}Fire Claw, {robe}BardRobe) or if it doesn't have very many entries in the first place and it has the room, ({axe}Hand Axe, {axe}Ogreslay, {axe}Rune Axe, {axe}Poison, {axe}DwarfAxe) it has its type added.

Does this sound like a good compromise?

Edit 2 - Here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-06.zip) is the new archive. (I checked it for ROMs this time, I promise! ;)) It will soon also be submitted to RHDN's database.

Quick list of notable changes:

As always, apply the new version to an unmodified FFII US v1.1 ROM with a header. :) Thank you all so much for your input; please enjoy Rodimus Primal's and my work!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 25, 2015, 05:47:58 pm
Cool beans. I'm not sure I understand what's different about how to patch now, though. Do I have to apply them in a specific order?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 25, 2015, 06:07:37 pm
I'm looking at the Namingway readme to see what changed... did you include the name changes for Vanilla II in this?

Also, just apply one or the other, Chrysologus. The Vanilla, or the Namingway. Don't apply both. Order doesn't matter because you don't want to apply both. Just one.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 25, 2015, 06:11:24 pm
Oh, I understand now. That is convenient.

Man, the Magnes Cave is hard now! A party of 3 Ogres is brutal.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 25, 2015, 06:37:45 pm
I'm looking at the Namingway readme to see what changed... did you include the name changes for Vanilla II in this?
Vanilla II as in plain FFII US? Rodimus Primal primarily listed the differences between Project II and Namingway, adding what it was in FFII US in between. I removed anything that was superfluous in this release, since a lot enemy and equipment names are the same now. I could whip up a quick list of what is now the same between Project II and Namingway, if you'd like?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 25, 2015, 07:49:03 pm
Hey vivify93, I'm really enjoying playing through the hack; I've currently received my final Air Ship, and am about to go to the Moon. I forgot to mention earlier one suggestion for the script that occurred to me as I was going through the game;
Spoiler:
when Yang chooses to sacrifice himself to save the others and destroy the Super Canon, his final parting line completely fell flat for me at that highly emotional moment. I believe his parting words are to the effect of, "I'm glad that I traveled with you." I would propose an alternative, "It was my honor to have fought at your side(s), or; "It was my privilege to be counted among your friends". As a huge fan of the character Yang, I feel that he deserves to go out with a noble flourish befitting his character, rather than like an inelegant fop (my opinion, of course!).


I feel that either of these lines would capture and convey the sense of both duty, martial discipline, and higher morals that a character like Yang embodies for me.  Now, having said that, I have no idea as to how the original Japanese line translates, and the current script could be completely accurate for all I know. I'd appreciate your consideration and opinion, vivify93.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 25, 2015, 09:09:36 pm
How does "It was a privilege to have been able to be counted your comrade." sound?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 25, 2015, 09:41:19 pm
The smallest suggestion for Namingway: The "f" in MindFlay should be lowercase, since "Mindflayer" (rather than "Mind Flayer") is the current spelling.

And kudos on changing Aspir to Osmos!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 25, 2015, 09:50:15 pm
How does "It was a privilege to have been able to be counted your comrade." sound?
That would work for me; I would suggest a slight alteration if I may- " It was my privilege to have been able to be counted your comrade." I think those changes would make for a more powerful statement, as well as somewhat less cumbersome sentence. Either way, I think any proposed revision would be an improvement to the current line of dialogue; I defer to your judgement, vivify93.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 07:25:45 am
And kudos on changing Aspir to Osmos!
That was Rodimus Primal, you should thank him. I don't like it as Osmos since it's another abbreviation, and I'm the one who made it Aspir. I don't know if they didn't do their homework or what, but the Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation called a character's ability "Aspir" something instead of Osmose something, so that's where I got it from.

I'm sure Rodimus will answer your Mindflayer suggestion soon. If nothing else, I can do it real quick and send it his way.

Edit 1 - Actually, I'll just message Rodimus that I'm making these changes and send him the new patch...

That would work for me; I would suggest a slight alteration if I may- " It was my privilege to have been able to be counted your comrade." I think those changes would make for a more powerful statement, as well as somewhat less cumbersome sentence.
I think "It was my privilege" is a bit more cumbersome and awkward to say as opposed to "It was a privilege." The whole sentence, as I suggested it, is wordy though. I think I may go with "It was a privilege to have been counted your comrade."

Also, if I can't fit it in, I may not do it anyway.

Edit 1 - It fits in Namingway. Let's see about Vanilla.

Edit 2 - It fits in Vanilla! Woo-hoo!

Edit 3 - v2.06 is up on RHDN. 2.07 will not go up until Chrysologus and The_Atomik_Punk! have finished their play-throughs and given me their final feedback. :) Especially since v2.07 currently consists of two minor changes.

Edit 4 - I am now aware of a discrepancy between the names of the enemies General and Captain. These discrepancies have been fixed and will be in v2.07.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 26, 2015, 12:32:31 pm
Vanilla II as in plain FFII US? Rodimus Primal primarily listed the differences between Project II and Namingway, adding what it was in FFII US in between. I removed anything that was superfluous in this release, since a lot enemy and equipment names are the same now. I could whip up a quick list of what is now the same between Project II and Namingway, if you'd like?

Nah, Project II.

The differences for Project II and Namingway doesn't seem to have changed all that much so... yeah.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 02:24:24 pm
Indeed, my Namingway suggestion was intended for Rodimus Primal, as are the following. (Should I be instead contacting him directly?)

It seems to me that the philosophy of Project II is to not use abbreviations (makes sense). The philosophy of Namingway is to conform to the contemporary usage found in the DS/mobile version via abbreviations, yes? The recent change from Aspir to Osmos (Osmose) reflects this. I think this makes sense, and to that end I have some more suggestions. Feel free to reject any or all of them, of course! My feelings won't be hurt. :)

Cure2 > Cura
Cure3 > Curga (Curaga)
Fire2 > Fira
Fire3 > Firga (Firaga)
Ice > Blizzd (using the digraph) (Blizzard)
Ice 2 > Blizra (using the digraph) (Blizzara)
Ice 3 > Blizga (using the digraph) (Blizzaga)
Bolt > Thndr (Thunder)
Bolt2 > Thdra (Thundara)
Bolt3 > Thdga (Thundaga)
Venom > Poisn (Poison)
Charm > Conf. (Confuse)
Mute > Silenc (using the digraph) (Silence)
Exit > Tele. (Teleport)
Wall > Refl. (Reflect)
Safe > Prot. (Protect)
Gale > Tnado (Tornado)

Whatcha think?

Also, is there also a goal here to undo what appears to be name censorship? I notice you have HellTurtl (Hell Turtle, ala the GBA version and the Japanese) instead of the DS's Fell Turtle. (Edited to correct mis-remembered name.)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 02:30:10 pm
No. I'm sorry that I'm about to be blunt here, but those abbreviations are all terrible. Thndr doesn't even have a vowel in it. That's going too far; I'm vetoing it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 02:32:06 pm
More terrible than Bserk?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 02:35:35 pm
More terrible than Bserk?
Yes. More terrible than Bserk. Say Bserk out loud: Buh-serk. Sounds close to Ber-serk. Thndr sounds like "thind-rr", like a child is trying to say "thinned" and then growl at you. Furthermore, Bserk has a precedent in FFIII US.

Edit - If you want, I can give you FFII US' table file and direct you to my hex editor of choice if you ant to do it for your version of Namingway Edition, Chrysologus.

Also, I just looked, and I can't find a HellBeast / FellBeast in the game's data? What are you talking about, if you don't mind me asking? The only beast I can find is Icebeast.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 02:47:34 pm
No, that's fine, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Whoops, I meant Fell Turtle.

Speaking of bad abbreviations, Soldress is not so great. What if it was just Soldier (-ess is an old fashioned diminutive, anyway)? Granted, there is already a plot-device enemy named Soldier, but it's not like there would be any chance of confusing them. The enemy is clearly recognizable as female, so the -ess suffix adds nothing.

Also, there was another monster earlier: Hell Pin (based on Hell Needle from the GBA translation, but is a pin really a needle?). Its name in the DS version has been altered to Needlehog. Are GBA names being given preference?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 03:05:23 pm
I had her as Amazon before, and I could make her so again. I don't want any enemy names to be the same, though.

Thanks for pointing out Hell Pin and Hell Turtle. They are now Needlhog and FellTurtl. I'll send the new patch over to Rodimus.

While I'm here, here's a quick list of what is now the same between Vanilla Project II and Namingway Edition. The rightmost name is now the name shared between versions.

Code: [Select]
INVENTORY

FFII US        PII v2.05      PII v2.07 / NE v1.02
-------        ---------      --------------------
Lunar Staff    Energy Staff   Aura Staff
Fire Blade     <- same        Flame Saber
Lit Arrow      LitArrow       Thunder Arrow
Black Shield   Hades Shield   Demon Shield
Fire Shield    FireShld       Flame Shield
Fire Armor     <- same        Flame Mail
Dummy          Star Veil      LightVeil
Dummy          Moon Veil      LunarVeil


FOES

FFII US        PII v2.05      PII v2.07 / NE v1.02
-------        ---------      --------------------
Larva          <- same        Insectus
SandMoth       <- same        Eyewing
EvilShel       Mollusk        Vile Shell
Mad Toad       <- same        Toadgre
Weeper         <- same        Leshy
RocLarva       BigLarva       Chrysalis
Imp Cap.       Dark Imp       Domovoi
Slime          <- same        Bavarois
Officer        <- same        General
Raven          <- same        Zu
Fighter        <- same        Marine
General        <- same        Captain
Skull          <- same        Skuldier
VampGirl       Vampira        Succubus
Panther        <- same        CaitSith
FangShel       FangShell      DoomShell
Screamer       <- same        Marilith
Ghost          <- same        EvilDream
HugeCell       Huge Cell      Mors
BlackCat       <- same        Coeurl
Talantla       Taranta        Alraune
Centpede       <- same        Tunneler
Crawler        <- same        Hornworm
ToadLady       <- same        BogWitch
DarkTree       <- same        Mammon
MoonCell       Moon Cell      LunarCell
Calbrena       <- same        Calbrina
EvilWall       Evil Wall      DemonWall
Brena          <- same        Brina
Ghast          <- same        Skulnant

The two exceptions:
1. The VampLady, who is Vampress in Namingway Edition and Vampira in Vanilla Project II.
2. The FlameMan, who is FireKngt in Namingway Edition and Ares in Project II.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 04:18:04 pm
The dwarven king should probably say "have already been taken" or "have been taken already" instead of "have been already taken."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 04:31:45 pm
Fixed; thank you. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 26, 2015, 04:36:09 pm
That was the problem with the abbreviations, they always seemed one letter two short for their own good. :/

I used Soldress for Soldieress because the letter i was the only letter that seemed appropriate to abbreviate with. Would you have preffered Soldieres? This is the current name in the GBA/DS/PSP versions.

Sometimes the names I chose were the GBA or the PSP depending on space constraints and how well the abbreviations had to go. Like vivify93 said about Thndr, which is why I didn't use it or Lit and chose Bolt. I had to bend on FenixDwn too because I almost went with PhnixDn, but that was really bad.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on January 26, 2015, 04:53:40 pm
Hey vivify93, I had one more suggestion that I forgot to mention previously. I love Cid; not only is he funny as heck, he's also pretty darn handy with a mallet in a pinch! Cid is listed as a "Chief" in the status window; I would suggest that he should be called an "Engineer".

 Cid is an absolute master tinkerer; this guy consistently makes some absolutely astonishing things (have you seen what he can jerry-rig in a jiffy? :o). My understanding is that Cid is the Chief Engineer of Baron. I think we need to make a distinction between a rank, and a class. Yang can be seen as the Chief (or Head) Monk of Fabul, Cecil can be seen as the Captain of the Red Wings. We can therefore say that while their ranks are respectively Chief and Captain, their classes are Monk and Dark Knight. Cid is an Engineer; it's what he does. For these reasons, I submit that Cid should be listed as an Engineer in the Status screen.

Secondly, and less significantly, I still feel that "It was my privilege to have been counted your comrade" is the better choice of the two. I believe that the change from "a" to "my" makes the statement far more personal, and thus more meaningful. I see Yang as not simply stating that it was one among many privileges in his life ("a"), but rather the deepest honor of his life. This to me seems like an appropriate final parting statement for the disciplined, and dutiful martial artist to utter before he makes the ultimate sacrifice.

On a side note, I won't be able to spend any time playing Project II for a couple of weeks, although I believe I am quite close to the end (just arrived at the Moon). I'll be sure to hit you up with any other ideas that come to mind when I complete my play-through.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 05:21:38 pm
Rodimus Primal, did you consider just Phoenix? In some of these cases I thought a shortened form might be better. Similarly, it had occurred to me that something like Mindflay could just be Flayer. Still following the modern names, but a different way to abbreviate.

The Atomic Punk, he is listed as "Enginer" (Engineer) in the Namingway edition.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2015, 08:46:57 pm
Hey vivify93, I had one more suggestion that I forgot to mention previously. I love Cid; not only is he funny as heck, he's also pretty darn handy with a mallet in a pinch! Cid is listed as a "Chief" in the status window; I would suggest that he should be called an "Engineer".
We're only allowed seven letters for job titles, otherwise Cecil would be a D.Knight instead of a DKnight, Cid would be an Engineer instead of a Chief, Rosa would be a W.Wizard instead of a Wh.Wiz., and Rydia would be a Summoner instead of a Caller.

Secondly, and less significantly, I still feel that "It was my privilege to have been counted your comrade" is the better choice of the two. I believe that the change from "a" to "my" makes the statement far more personal, and thus more meaningful. I see Yang as not simply stating that it was one among many privileges in his life ("a"), but rather the deepest honor of his life. This to me seems like an appropriate final parting statement for the disciplined, and dutiful martial artist to utter before he makes the ultimate sacrifice.
I would reword it as "There was no greater honor than to be counted your comrade"? I feel like "It was my privilege" doesn't sound like something someone would actually say. Of course, this all depends on if it fits.

On a side note, I won't be able to spend any time playing Project II for a couple of weeks, although I believe I am quite close to the end (just arrived at the Moon). I'll be sure to hit you up with any other ideas that come to mind when I complete my play-through.
Awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 26, 2015, 11:29:44 pm
Using either the "il" or "ll" digraph, Killer could be KillerBow. That would be in conformity with the standard you gave in an earlier post for weapons/armor names, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 27, 2015, 09:32:24 am
Man, you have a really good eye for this, Chrysologus. Thanks, I'll put that in the next build to send over to Rodimus Primal.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 28, 2015, 02:41:52 pm
I'm blessed with an attention to detail when it comes to words.

By the way, I think your translation is really, really well done. It reads great even though you only have a tiny bit of space to put the words in. I do have one suggestion, though (which I give only because I love it so much): "Crap in a hat." That . . . is odd. Is that a real expression? Even if it is, I'm not sure it fits into the overall script.

Edit: One of the guards of the Eblan cave saves "defeated so easy...", which should probably be "defeated so easily...".

Edit 2: I've also started to wonder if Pray works too often now. I have Rosa use it most of the time.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 04:59:52 pm
"Crap in a hat" is definitely an expression, but it's pretty contemporary.
I don't know who says it, but IMHO it would probably be out of place for anyone except Cid, I think (maybe Edge).

It's not a huge offense, and I am generally amused when people say it... but considering the goal with PII in part is to present a translation truer in spirit to the original than that of j2e, then it's probably best to avoid language that could be perceived as anachronistic.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 28, 2015, 05:08:00 pm
- Re: Pray - Cure2 stops being so useful later in the game, though. Do you think I should lower it to a 65% chance, maybe?

Edit 1 - Maybe you've just gotten really lucky, because Pray is still failing a lot of the time for me.

- Re: "Beaten so easy" - I fixed the Eblanese guard in Vanilla / Namingway.

- Re: Cid - I don't really wanna change Cid's "Crap in a hat! They're still on our tail!" unless someone has another suggestion for a humorous yet appropriate (And E-rated.) replacement.

Edit 2 - And guys, this isn't a "translation." I can read "Sailor Moon", "Luna", "a", "ru", "no," and "n", and I'm not sure which writing system(s) I know how to read them in. I did no translating. I rewrote Kaoru Moriyama's script to be more readable whilst stealing bits and pieces from other translations. I also used Tomato's Legends of Localization as a guide when I wrote many of my lines.

This is just a rewritten script, sadly. If I knew Japanese, I would've translated sooo many things by now...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 28, 2015, 06:12:28 pm
'Screw a nut! They're on our tail!'?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 07:08:10 pm
In the literary sense, this is absolutely a translation.

Half the people out there who have published a translation of Dante's Inferno don't speak a word of Italian. That's an exaggeration, but my point is, when the general idea of the source material is so well known, what is commonly called a "translation" becomes more of a semantic interpretation.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 28, 2015, 07:24:39 pm
In the manga scanlations world, what vivify is doing is more of a 'rewrite' of a translation than a literal translation.

I'm not terribly bothered by it - he's doing more of a 'localization'.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 28, 2015, 08:13:22 pm
I almost changed my post after the fact to remove the word "translation," but I figured it didn't matter much. I realize that it's a re-writing based on the existing scripts. In this case, that seems to be more than sufficient. In fact, if I recall correctly, the person who did the text for Final Fantasy Restored also did not know Japanese, but instead based it on existing translations.

The original has "Shucks!", the GBA version "Damn!" and the DS "Uh-oh!". Frankly, "Damn!" seems very good to me, and as a very mild curse word it seems to fit with his character. It doesn't seem any more vulgar to me than "crap." In fact, personally I've always thought "crap" was more vulgar because it's scatological, whereas damn is theological.

Speaking of the GBA version, I've never played it. Does anyone know whether it decreases the difficulty the way that I & II did for the GBA? I couldn't stand the GBA version of I & II because they were absurdly easy.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 28, 2015, 08:38:59 pm
I agree that "Damn!" would fit Cid's character. Or, if you want to be a little creative, how about "Hell's blazes!"
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 28, 2015, 09:05:23 pm
No swears allowed, sorry. This is a family-friendly mod! Plus, I think simply "Damn!" is really, really boring. I do think Zunar is onto something with "Blaze" though. "Blazin' b-"... something. Blazin' bells? "Blazin' bells, they're still on our tail!"

I rather like it. Not as catchy as "Crap in a hat!" but I think it works. Any thoughts?

Speaking of the GBA version, I've never played it. Does anyone know whether it decreases the difficulty the way that I & II did for the GBA? I couldn't stand the GBA version of I & II because they were absurdly easy.
The difficulty? Exactly the same as the original. But FFIV Advance has slowdown in its animations and terrible sound effects.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 28, 2015, 09:18:01 pm
The way I was raised, crap is s swear! How about "Hot dang!" I don't know.

I assume by original you mean the harder Japanese original. According to the Wiki, they made a second Japanese version to fix the bugs, which is the basis of the European version. Anyone tried that?

M What about V and VI Advance? Those good and not dumbed down?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 28, 2015, 09:24:36 pm
Eh, "Hot dang!" doesn't sound appropriate for this situation.

I rather like the sound of "Hell's blazes!" myself. Besides, hell isn't really a swear word anymore, particularly in this context. However it is your patch, so I respect your decision. I'm not quite sure if "bells" really fits Cid's character, I would go for something more like "Blazin' bolts" or something considering he's an engineer.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 09:25:45 pm
How about something like "Gaia's grits!"
The reference to Gaia suggests irreverence to a deity that is highly unlikely to offend any players (so like "god damn," but not really enything anybody would consider a curse), plus you've got the alliteration, and... Grits are just funny.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 28, 2015, 09:38:06 pm
"DAG BURN IT!" ?

You know, if they stole from Star Trek and Star Wars back then, can't you steal from Firefly or Farscape and do things like 'Gorram!' or 'Frell!'?

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 28, 2015, 10:27:20 pm
The way I was raised, crap is s swear! How about "Hot dang!"
I've heard about that, actually. I heard someone tell their kid "piss" and "Hell" (As in the place) aren't swears, but "crap" is.

M What about V and VI Advance? Those good and not dumbed down?
FFVI Advance is dumbed down, but I rather like its translation. There are patches to make it almost like the SNES game, but it's still off due to the bad gradients, insignificant music bugs, and bad sound effects.

FFV Advance is better than the original in all ways, and the Custom Classes mod makes it even better.

I rather like the sound of "Hell's blazes!" myself. Besides, hell isn't really a swear word anymore, particularly in this context. However it is your patch, so I respect your decision. I'm not quite sure if "bells" really fits Cid's character, I would go for something more like "Blazin' bolts" or something considering he's an engineer.
I think I'll go with "Blazin' bolts." It does fit better--sounds like something out of one of those Disney auto-vehicle movies like Trucks or Planes--and it's avoiding swears.

Any thoughts and/or objections to "Blazin bolts, they're still on our tail!"?

You know, if they stole from Star Trek and Star Wars back then, can't you steal from Firefly or Farscape and do things like 'Gorram!' or 'Frell!'
God, no. I don't need to insert more memes into this; the four or five I have in are more than enough...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 12:14:35 am
Hmm, yes, that does remind me that I raised an eyebrow at "Why so serious?"

Since I'm about to move on to FF V, I may as well ask now: which should I play? Playstation version, SNES fan translation (including recent fix-up), or Advance? I'm thinking SNES fan translation at the moment, but could be persuaded. How is the Playstation translation?

Oh, and I definitely prefer "Blazin' bolts" to "Crap in a hat"!

Edit: What is pray's % chance of success now? I would support lowering it, especially since it casts Cura now instead of Cure.

For the Namingway Edition, I'm wondering if LilithKis would be better than the current LilthKiss...? This dredges up the whole debate again about abbreviations. What if it was just Kiss or just Lilith? I never got a response about doing just Phoenix instead of FenixDwn. Maybe that was considered crazy.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 02:21:47 am
Why so serious? kinda bugs me mostly because I keep thinking about what happened to Ledger afterwards.

Ich, ah well.

Come to think of it, why -isn't- FenixDwn something like PhxDown ? I mean, Phx is a perfectly fine abbreviation of Phoenix, to start with.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 29, 2015, 05:15:52 am
Not much time since I gotta go to work, so I'll make this quick.

Re: LilithKis, FenixDwn - That's something you gotta defer to Rodimus Primal for. I personally would be against making it PhxDwn. Whatever he decides on, though, I'll just send him the updated Namingway package so he can do it.

Re: Pray - Its chance of success is now 70%. You gotta think, though, even at LV 99 with max Will, it only heals about 200-400 HP. Not all that useful... I mean, sure, a little more broken now that you can skip turns, but if someone wants to spend 10 minutes of a battle healing with Pray when quicker options are available, they can be my guest.

Re: PSone FF ports - Don't play FFIV, FFV, or FFVI on PSone. They're fraught with unnecessarily long load times. The translation of FFV is atrocious, almost as bad as FFII US, and FFIV PSone's translation is inaccurate and weird. If you're going to play FFV next, first and foremost, I recommend FFV Advance with the Custom Classes mod first. A close second would be FFV SNES with The Legend of the Crystals text clean-up mod applied.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 09:24:05 am
Thanks for the advice! For this time, I'm going to do the fan translation with the clean-up you mentioned. I played the Playstation version when it first came out and I remember the long load times and was unimpressed with the story (but I don't know to what extent that was because of bad translating). I may come back and try the GBA version later. At the rate I'm going I'll be to VI pretty soon, too, and definitely plan to play Rodimus Primal's version of that.

I would prefer Phx.Down (or PhnxDown), but I'm still suggesting just Phoenix!

Definitely would support taking it down to 65%. It's a nice number--works twice as often as it fails!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 09:47:13 am
Spooniest was going to clean up the Legend of the Crystal clean-up some more too, so keeping notes on what you'd suggest changing/looking at would be good!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 09:55:17 am
Oh, I definitely will, then!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 10:02:01 am
Hmm, yes, that does remind me that I raised an eyebrow at "Why so serious?"

Since I'm about to move on to FF V, I may as well ask now: which should I play? Playstation version, SNES fan translation (including recent fix-up), or Advance? I'm thinking SNES fan translation at the moment, but could be persuaded. How is the Playstation translation?

Oh, and I definitely prefer "Blazin' bolts" to "Crap in a hat"!

Edit: What is pray's % chance of success now? I would support lowering it, especially since it casts Cura now instead of Cure.

For the Namingway Edition, I'm wondering if LilithKis would be better than the current LilthKiss...? This dredges up the whole debate again about abbreviations. What if it was just Kiss or just Lilith? I never got a response about doing just Phoenix instead of FenixDwn. Maybe that was considered crazy.

FenixDwn really wasn't fully my decision specifically, but when you think about it is something you have to consider WHAT it is. It's the down feather of a Phoenix. It's an 8 character limit so we have to fit it in the confines of that. I mean we CAN do PhoenixD, PhnxDown, PhnixDwn, PhxDown or anything else we come up with. Personally, I don't MIND PhnxDown, but to the new player, they may wonder WHAT the item is. PhxDown works because the city of Phoenix uses that as an abbreviation as well. Just calling it a {POTION}Phoenix is stretching it, but what I think if everyone can chime in a little, I'll make a better informed decision on that. I'm leaning towards PhxDown.

As for LilthKiss/ LilithKis is a tough call too. If there was an "it" diagraph in FFIV it would be no problem. The missing S makes for a strange looking word for kiss. However, again, I'll let you guys chime in on it.

Either way, when you've finished your edits, vivify93, send me your update so I can work on Namingway.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 10:19:18 am
Just a suggestion, but 'Lilith' might be a mis-transllation here.

'lilim' or 'Lilin' are more 'children of Lilith, aren't they?

So it might make more sense here to have "LilimKiss' or 'LilinKiss'
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 10:26:07 am
If you're doing Phx because it's recognizable as Phoenix, then I'd suggest you include a period: Phx.Down.

You could drop the "h" from Lilith since the Hebrew original can be transliterated without the "h": LilitKiss.

Speaking of abbreviations, FF III has "White" and "Black" written out in four characters each, which is handy because of the frequent use they get in the game. Is there any possibility of doing that? (I don't know where they found the space in FF III). Then Rosa could be WhiteWiz, and you could have BlackGarb, etc.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 11:01:33 am
I almost forgot Lilith has its roots in Hebrew mythology. Much like Godzilla is a transliterated Gojira, I think I will do that with LilitKiss/ LilithKiss. FFIIIj has tiles for li, il, it, and ti. That's how they were able to do that. I was looking into finding their technique when I was working on FFII. FFIV doesn't have any more that il and li, probably because they are used for item icons and the like.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 29, 2015, 11:43:25 am
Alrighty, if Rodimus has work to do, then I'll get on sending him the updated file. Crap in a hat is going to be Blazin' bolts for Cid's line, and... I think that's all we really decided on.

Rodimus - FFIII's translation fit LilithKiss in by removing the space that non-equipment items use to keep everything pretty and in line, but as I said, the spaces are staying to look better, redundant as they seem! :)

Chrysologus - Vetoing the White / Black squish-tiles. I try to avoid their usage wherever possible. il, li, and ll look fine because they don't lose any width. Anything else like ti, if, etc. look bad to me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 29, 2015, 12:11:09 pm
On the issue of Phoenix Downs...

Would this work?



(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n198/LastingDawn/FFIV-PhoenixDown_zps3f58629b.png) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/LastingDawn/media/FFIV-PhoenixDown_zps3f58629b.png.html)

Blazin bolts sounds like a fantastic replacement, honestly. I always thought the other was off-putting.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 12:32:18 pm
Looks good, though I have to admit, it looks odd seeing a Potion symbol there. If that, why not Revive in the first place?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 29, 2015, 12:42:56 pm
Looks good, though I have to admit, it looks odd seeing a Potion symbol there. If that, why not Revive in the first place?

Hmm, actually it doesn't look good in game. I keep forgetting that the item (and spell) menu doesn't properly show symbols...

It's just a black box. Revive is what it is called in Combat Boost actually and that's what Vivify has had from the start.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 01:57:52 pm
I'm still leaning towards Phx.Down as a viable option for it. I agree the potion symbol doesn't look right next to the word Phoenix,considering the item.

This is for Namingway Edition of Project II.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 02:04:53 pm
Quote
FFIIIj has tiles for li, il, it, and ti. That's how they were able to do that.

That's not how they made "Black" fit into 4 spaces, nor "White" if memory serves (I thought there was only a ti digraph, not an it digraph.) They simply wrote out the word across 4 tiles with only one pixel space between each letter. Surely the fan translators added these digraphs to the game; they wouldn't have been in the Japanese original ROM.

Quote
Chrysologus - Vetoing the White / Black squish-tiles. I try to avoid their usage wherever possible. il, li, and ll look fine because they don't lose any width. Anything else like ti, if, etc. look bad to me

I agree that ti looks bad because it has to be cropped short. I didn't think, though, that any width was lost in the spelling out of "White" and "Black" in FF III. The letters are written per normal but with one pixel between each one, across 4 spaces. Is that not so? It is noticeable because Final Fantasy text is blocky, but no less noticeable than the ll, li, and il digraphs, which also have one pixel between the letters.

Speaking of FF III, who is going to take up the challenge of giving it a makeover? :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 06:48:36 pm
I do think the fan translation of FFIIIj isn't that bad. Just needs a B Button dash, as does II.

Now, an item I've been tinkering in my mind is the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Hourglass items.  Currently in Project II, they are Stoptrap, SilvrTrap, and GoldTrap respectively. They were dummy items on the SNES, and Hrglass1, Hrglass2, and Hrglass3 on the PSX. Should we leave them be or update their names somehow? Also, Gale is a spell that I've been going back and forth whether to leave it be. It's Weak on the SNES, Wind on the PSX, and Tornd on the J2E translation.  Thoughts?

I've decided on Phx.Down and LilitKiss for the next update.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 29, 2015, 07:00:18 pm
There's no real way to write out Hourglass without it being stuffed down to a bad abbreviation due to the eight-letter limit. I remember you had it as Hgls before, and that just... no.

Gale's another I can't think of a good one for. There's no way to write Tornado comfortably in five letters. If you guys find alternatives that I'm OK with, by all means, though. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 29, 2015, 07:24:35 pm
Ah right, I noticed that you were having trouble thinking of a game-long use for Pray, why not use Absorb or Vitalize, which heals 1/3 of Current HP or 1/10 of Max HP?

That way it would be continually balanced without being too overpowered.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 29, 2015, 07:29:09 pm
Hmm. I like the idea! 1/3 of user's Current HP would make it a precursor to White Wind. That's Absorb, right? It'd give incentive to keep Rosa's health up.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 29, 2015, 07:56:13 pm
Hmm. I like the idea! 1/3 of user's Current HP would make it a precursor to White Wind. That's Absorb, right? It'd give incentive to keep Rosa's health up.

Indeed, that's Absorb... but I think I might have misspoken. It recover's every character's HP By 1/3 of Their HP. So while Rosa might recover 500 Yang could be recovering 1000 if he has 4000 HP Max and is down to 3000 for instance.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 08:15:19 pm
My earlier suggestion of Tnado was shot down. Wind is better than Gale.

Timer, Timer 2, Timer 3? Cu Timer, Ag Timer, Au Timer? Could do Stop or Clock instead of Timer for either system.

Which reminds me of the "seeds." Could do Ag Apple and Au Apple? Atomic symbols are well known and international.

Re: Pray: That would be way too powerful, imho. I don't think it should scale. I think the ability was intended for the first part of the game. It's fun having it cast Cura, though so it's actually worth using. I support lowering its accuracy to its original level, our closer anyway.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 08:24:11 pm
I'd go with BHrglass, SHrglass, GHrGlass

I'n not sure you want to start using AgApple and AuApple if you already used BHrGlass, SHrGlass, or GHrglass, anyway...

Twistr workable?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 08:42:27 pm
Not without sacrificing the Spell icon before the name. It ends up being {Black Magic}Twist. Wind doesn't sound TOO bad (and was used in the PSX version), even though a gale IS a very strong wind. The lettered Hrglass items are a compromise, but the elemental table is confusing. However, there is SilvApple and GldApple if we go that far.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 08:50:50 pm
I like Gale better. Wind just doesn't have the same power as a 'gale'.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 09:04:32 pm
SilvApple GldApple sound great.

I don't think vivify would appreciate BHrGlass, given his distaste for unsightly abbreviations. How about BrnzStop, SilvrStop, GoldStop? Clear and consistent.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 29, 2015, 09:12:20 pm
True but the game does use them in places quite frequently. Hrglass is already an abbreviation used in PSX, and G.Needle already is used for Gold Needle. I can go either way, between BrnzStop or BHrglass. Gale still bugs me, as does Wind.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 29, 2015, 09:20:11 pm
Gust, Blast, Storm, Furor, Blow, Burst? Torn. with a period?

'Nado?  ;D

The real solution is obvious. Someone has to hack the game to redraw the menu to support 8-character spell names.

Edit: Back to the script. The dwarf king, after the party's failure, says "It's a matter of time before he succeeds." Seems like it should be "It's only a matter of time before he succeeds." That will shift the spacing of the words, but it looks like it'll be fine because the 4th line should have room for the word crystal.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 29, 2015, 11:00:57 pm
I don't strictly think "only" is necessary there, to be honest. The sentence may sound odd to those not used to that dialect, but it makes sense as a whole.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 29, 2015, 11:06:22 pm
Well it depends on the tone you want. If you want to sound ominous, 'only' is a good word to put in there.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 30, 2015, 12:58:16 am
Just looked up some usgae on the idiom, "a matter of time." It's normally used with only or just.

"It's only a matter of time..."
"It's just a matter of time..."
"It's a matter of time.."

The third does seem strange but it CAN be used that way. In the FFII US they used "It's just a matter of time.." I personally think that line works best for the scene.

As for the item names, I'm still leaning toward BHrGlass, SHrGlass, and GHrGlass unless someone comes up with a better solution. As for the Tornado spell...I'll settle for Gale but I'm trying to see how some acronyms can work. Squall, Tempest, Funnel, Whirlwind, Windstorm, Cyclone. They all look strange abbreviated.

Something I noticed about the J2E translation (which is still terrible BTW) is that they either expanded this or just that the Japanese has the lettering for it. The Job Classes allow for longer names. Hence Rydia is a Summoner where as we cannot seem to expand the job title, unless there is a way to do so.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: pinkpuff on January 30, 2015, 09:44:35 am
You could make an hourglass icon... replace the tail icon maybe? So:

(T)Rat -> RatTail
(T)Pink -> PinkTail

Then you could have:

(H)Gold
(H)Silver
(H)Bronze
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 30, 2015, 10:15:46 am
Awesome thinking outside of the box, Pink puff. I think I'm going to do that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 30, 2015, 11:27:29 am
You could make an hourglass icon... replace the tail icon maybe? So:

(T)Rat -> RatTail
(T)Pink -> PinkTail

Then you could have:

(H)Gold
(H)Silver
(H)Bronze

I was somewhat under the impression that when the Japanese script was removed the English version had a lot of icons were simply left blank? As I recall some of JCE3000GT's older FFIV Hacks used that space to give custom icons to a lot of things.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on January 30, 2015, 11:37:37 am
I don't know about icons, but eliminating the two Japanese kana alphabets would have freed up 100 characters.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 11:42:29 am
Making an hourglass icon is a great idea. You could also, while you're at it, if there's space, make a "down" icon for Phoenix. FF Restored has a needle icon for Gold Needle, but that's probably not needed.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 30, 2015, 11:52:44 am
Awesome thinking outside of the box, Pink puff. I think I'm going to do that.
No, the Tail icon was removed in favor of a space that is usable in between item names. If you notice in the ROM while you're hex editing, you'll see weird things like {Rod}Ice{Tail}Rod. If you change the tail icon to a space in hex, the rod will display in-game as {Rod}Ice. There's a lot of free room to put in an hourglass icon, though.

I do support making extra icons, though I wouldn't necessarily put them in vanilla Project II. I thought all the extra icons in J2e's translation made the item list look cute, but rather cluttered in a way.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 11:55:04 am
If there's five free spaces they could probably be used to write out Cyclone.  :D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 30, 2015, 11:55:28 am
I'd still like to avoid the usage of squish tiles, Chrysologus. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 12:04:17 pm
Wait, why not just use Squall? It's only five characters with the double el digraph! No abbreviation or "squishiness" necessary.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 30, 2015, 12:50:41 pm
A squall involves water as well, not just air, so I wouldn't.

Plus, no Final Fantasy 8 references!

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 01:06:56 pm
From the first definition given in the Oxford English Dictionary for "squall": "A sudden and violent gust, a blast or short sharp storm, of wind." No reference to water. Also, I've never played FF VIII, so there's no intended reference!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 30, 2015, 01:17:55 pm
Dictionary.com has:

A sudden, violent gust of wind, often accompanied by rain, snow, or sleet.

I remember this because I was looking up nautical stuff for Final Fantasy V and that was one of those.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 01:23:18 pm
OED > Dictionary.com  ;)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 30, 2015, 01:28:51 pm
If there is available space to make icons, then I will make stuff work. Obviously they don't need to be added to Vanilla Project II, but I've got some ideas a brewing.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 30, 2015, 03:52:20 pm
Isn't the proper name for a certain axe Ogrekiller? In Namingway it's Ogreslay. How about Ogrekillr?

Edit: Another Namingway suggestion: Bolt arrow could be Light arrow instead, ala FF III DS.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 30, 2015, 04:11:12 pm
Bolt Arrow is going to become Thunder Arrow in the next update, actually. :) In both patches!

Edit - And it's up to Rodimus if he wants to make the Ogreslay into the Ogrekillr with one of the digraphs, of course. I'm not against it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 31, 2015, 12:21:50 am
Okay, before I go screwing something up in YY-CHR and a HEX editor, I'm looking at the font right now and there is a large chunk of blank space in between the ll diagraph and the ' symbol. There is also blank space visible between the the , symbol and a v. Does anyone know if they are ACTUALLY blank space and not DTE pointers?! I don't want to mess up making an icon.

Thunder Arrow it IS. As for Ogrekillr, yes indeed.

January 31, 2015, 12:37:08 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
No, the Tail icon was removed in favor of a space that is usable in between item names. If you notice in the ROM while you're hex editing, you'll see weird things like {Rod}Ice{Tail}Rod. If you change the tail icon to a space in hex, the rod will display in-game as {Rod}Ice. There's a lot of free room to put in an hourglass icon, though.

I do support making extra icons, though I wouldn't necessarily put them in vanilla Project II. I thought all the extra icons in J2e's translation made the item list look cute, but rather cluttered in a way.

Okay so 7F on the text table is no longer the tail but is now your spacing icon for items. And 8A, 8B, 8C, and 8D you added for the diagraphs. So the space in-between that and the ' is free space for icons?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 31, 2015, 03:24:29 am
The digraphs are actually read as dialogue in the DTE, (I remember il is "e ", so Vile Shell reads as "Ve e Sheth" or something similar in Windhex32.) but for menu-related strings they read as their special tiles. So if you have any blank space at all in the font block, it's free for item symbols to add in.

Edit - il, li, and ll should be 8A, 8B, and 8C. 8D should be free. If my knowledge of the ROM is right, 8D to BF should be free, then CA to EF, and F0 and F6. That should be ample space for all the icons you need. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on January 31, 2015, 10:46:25 am
Wait. What happens to the Tail itself? Does it no longer get used, or did the icon get replaced with something else?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: pinkpuff on January 31, 2015, 11:04:33 am
No, the Tail icon was removed in favor of a space that is usable in between item names. If you notice in the ROM while you're hex editing, you'll see weird things like {Rod}Ice{Tail}Rod. If you change the tail icon to a space in hex, the rod will display in-game as {Rod}Ice. There's a lot of free room to put in an hourglass icon, though.

I do support making extra icons, though I wouldn't necessarily put them in vanilla Project II. I thought all the extra icons in J2e's translation made the item list look cute, but rather cluttered in a way.

Just so you know, there is already a space usable within item names: Character 0x15. The original game uses it to get names like "_FireBomb". In future versions of FF4kster I plan to include it in the font.cfg file, mapped to the # on the keyboard. For now you can easily open up the font.cfg file and just add a line that says "# 15" to get this behaviour.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 31, 2015, 03:48:50 pm
There's some kind of typo when Golbez speaks right after Kain steals the Dark Crystal (loved that movie!). Golbez says: "The way to the Moon will open you!" Not sure what that's supposed to be. Is 'you' supposed to be 'now', maybe?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on January 31, 2015, 08:45:20 pm
Wait. What happens to the Tail itself? Does it no longer get used, or did the icon get replaced with something else?
It got replaced with a space before, Digitsie. It's hard to explain, but next update should see the return of the tail icon.

Just so you know, there is already a space usable within item names: Character 0x15. The original game uses it to get names like "_FireBomb". In future versions of FF4kster I plan to include it in the font.cfg file, mapped to the # on the keyboard. For now you can easily open up the font.cfg file and just add a line that says "# 15" to get this behaviour.
Thanks, Pinkpuff! :) I'll do that next update, then, right before I upload the stuff. Wonder if I should give the tails back their icons, then...

There's some kind of typo when Golbez speaks right after Kain steals the Dark Crystal (loved that movie!). Golbez says: "The way to the Moon will open you!" Not sure what that's supposed to be. Is 'you' supposed to be 'now', maybe?
That's an artifact of Namingway Edition. For the record, Rodimus Primal, the message in question is #342 in Bank 1.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on January 31, 2015, 09:17:48 pm
Fixed along with a slew of other things to Namingway Edition. Don't know what caused that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on January 31, 2015, 09:34:55 pm
Two monster name suggestions: Instead of Levithan, how about Leviathn? This way it's the correct number of syllables. And for Mantcore, how about Manticor? Same reason. The pronunciation of both abbreviations is exactly as spelled. On the other hand, perhaps the current spellings look closer to the original words, even if they don't sound closer.

When will we see the next update?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 01, 2015, 12:15:46 am
I've already uploaded my updates to Namingway Edition to vivify, so once he's ready to do so. Unless there are more glaring issues. You'll see what I did with some of those character names.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 10:30:30 am
Fusoya says "He sired her kin." Kin means relatives, so that doesn't make sense. I'd suggest changing it to son.

One of the moon crystals says: "Zemus set up a paling from within." What is a "paling"?

Another Namingway suggestion: for Odin's attack, Zantetsu.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 01, 2015, 10:39:05 am
Might have meant to do 'children'. Sons instead?

I think a paling is a fence. Hnh. Is that really what was meant in context?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 10:48:43 am
Kin doesn't refer to descendants, though. Plus, Fusoya obviously doesn't want to tell him that he's Golbez's brother, so it should be singular.

Ah! I've never heard that word before. Maybe "seal" or "wall" would work better in context.

So Fusoya's Regen ability is super good now. You just always have him use it, so that you'll be nearly invincible. I think it should be considerably weakened.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 01, 2015, 11:01:07 am
If you wanted to use a biblical term... 'he knew his wife, and she conceived.' Which actually sounds kinda right if you wanted to be circumspect.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 01, 2015, 01:49:30 pm
Two monster name suggestions: Instead of Levithan, how about Leviathn? This way it's the correct number of syllables. And for Mantcore, how about Manticor? Same reason. The pronunciation of both abbreviations is exactly as spelled. On the other hand, perhaps the current spellings look closer to the original words, even if they don't sound closer.
That was the point, to make them look closer to the actual word, not sound closer. I don't like how Leviathn and Manticor look. The point was to "fool" players into thinking that the names are spelled out fully. Personally, if I hadn't made the mod, I would've thought they had their full names because the "a" of Leviathan and the "i" of Manticore are in the middle of the word.

Fusoya says "He sired her kin." Kin means relatives, so that doesn't make sense. I'd suggest changing it to son.

One of the moon crystals says: "Zemus set up a paling from within." What is a "paling"?

Another Namingway suggestion: for Odin's attack, Zantetsu.
Oh. Whoops. I tried too hard to be smart and it backfired. >.> Sorry! I'll go with something akin to what Digitsie said.

I rather like Zantetsu. If my rudimentary knowledge of Japanese is correct at all, Zantetsu would mean "Iron-cutting" with the "Sword" part left off.

Regarding "paling"--you've never played FFXII or FFXIII then, if you've never heard that word. It means "fence," as stated in this topic earlier, but it's used to describe magical walls in more recent FF translations.

So Fusoya's Regen ability is super good now. You just always have him use it, so that you'll be nearly invincible. I think it should be considerably weakened.
I can make it 150, but you have to think, you have Fusoya on your team for a very short time. I can take it down to 150 HP restored per Regen phase, perhaps, for a full usage of Regen leading to a 1,500 HP restoration? (This would be versus 250 HP per turn for a 2,500 HP restoration, for those of you who haven't yet used Regen.)

By the way, Chrysologus, now that you're so far in the game, are you still using Rosa's Pray ability very often?

The next patch should be out when you finish your play-through, Chrysologus. I was initially going to wait until The_Atomik_Punk! finished his also, but since he said real life is--understandably!--taking priority, v2.07 will probably take the go-ahead without his input.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 02:40:19 pm
That's probably a good call with the names. My way would make them look funny.

I think 150 HP would be better. That way it'd often be better to have him cast a spell instead. My absolute preference would be to have it do what it does in the DS version. I realize he's not with the party very long.

Yes, I still use Pray often, but not always. It's healing over 200 HP so it's still good. It's failed more than it used to (just luck), but I'd still favor dropping it by five percent. Doesn't make much difference.

You don't have much room to work with in that text, so you may consider just swapping in son for kin. It sounds good as worded to me, as with all the dialogue.

I was looking at the read me and saw you changed the cost of Thunder Claws. I think they are supposed to be more expensive because of their power in the Waterway, where most enemies are weak against thunder.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 01, 2015, 03:21:13 pm
That doesn't really explain the cost of Ice Claws, though. I think I should have enough room to write down something akin to what Digitsie suggested; most of Fusoya's text is in an area that can be edited to a larger extent.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 01, 2015, 03:22:42 pm
'He begat of her' then?

I can't say I'm crazy about 'son' or 'kin' as used, and FuSoYa just seems old-fashioned enough to use something like that.

Given FuSoYa isn't with the party for long, I'd rather keep the regen as it is just because he's a Lunarian and Lunarian should be 'overpowered' for the time you have him anyway, making a point that, 'yes, Lunarians are powerful beings'.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 03:30:10 pm
"He begat of her a son" seems fine to me if you want him to sound like he's from the 17th-19th centuries.

I don't see why he "should" be overpowered. What he should be is what the game creators made him. That said, I think it's fun to make his ability something actually worth using sometimes. If it healed 150 (or even just 100) HP, it would definitely be worth using sometimes. My two cents, anyway.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 01, 2015, 03:36:33 pm
If vivify has the room, I'd say 'He knew his wife, and she conceived' would probably better because then you can't quite pin him down on 'a son' or how many children she had.

And ehhh, considering that he's ancient, he really should at least be powerful enough to respect that's he's a Lunarian, so he should be distinct enough from the others.

I don't know, I never really liked using FuSoYa in general, so tended to regard him more as 'eh, that old fuddy duddy' than 'Okay, so he's a Lunarian'. Giving him something that emphasizes how powerful Lunarians are wouldn't be such a  bad thing, and would probably help grinding a bit more at that stage of the game.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 03:38:46 pm
In the DS version (I just checked), he actually does say that she had two children. The exact wording is: "She later bore him two children. One of them was you."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 01, 2015, 03:42:22 pm
I want to keep Golbez / Theodor a surprise. I changed it to "Soon thereafter, she conceived." Sound good?

Edit 1 - And I decided that Regen (Or "Bless" as it will be known in Namingway as per the 3D remake's translation.) will heal 160 HP per round. It will kind of go hand-in-hand with Pray; it's not as good or quick as healing with Cure3 or Cure4, but it's free.

Edit 2 - Here's a snippet of the conversation at the infodump on the Moon.

Edge: Hey, did you guys make the Lunar Whale?

Fusoya: My brother Kluya made it to visit the Blue Planet. He taught your kind to build airships and founded the Serpent Road. There, he fell in love with a woman named Cecilia. Soon thereafter, she conceived. You are Kluya's son, Cecil.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 01, 2015, 03:45:59 pm
I'd say 'shortly thereafter' instead of soon, but otherwise good.

*edit* I'd also probably suggested 'he created it' instead of 'he made it'.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 01, 2015, 04:07:13 pm
It's fine how it is. I appreciate your input though. I understand that it would sound more refined the way you suggested it, but space is still an issue here. I'm ROM hacking, not making my own game. :)

Edit 1 - I used byte 15 for my item name spaces and it displays like this in menus. I knew there was a reason I didn't use it...

(http://i.imgur.com/alEKWA2.png)

Edit 2 - This means vanilla Project II will not have the tail icon returning. Namingway will still have it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 04:22:12 pm
Sounds perfect!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 01, 2015, 04:48:59 pm
Sorry to be late on this one, but what about "he sired her progeny?"
That's both singular and plural, and doesn't sound (IMHO) as archaic as some of the other suggestions, or like it necessarily happened once.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 05:05:41 pm
This is probably specific to Namingway, but Cecil, when the Giant of Babil appears, says "What's 's that?!" The apostrophe and es are duplicated.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 01, 2015, 05:27:19 pm
Sorry to be late on this one, but what about "he sired her progeny?"
That's both singular and plural, and doesn't sound (IMHO) as archaic as some of the other suggestions, or like it necessarily happened once.
I really like that, but yeah, the ship on this line has sailed, unfortunately. :(

This is probably specific to Namingway, but Cecil, when the Giant of Babil appears, says "What's 's that?!" The apostrophe and es are duplicated.
Yep, Namingway-specific.

Note to Rodimus Primal: This is Bank 3, message #5.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 01, 2015, 06:34:23 pm
This has been fixed. I wonder if FF4kster caused the issue...

I've changed Iron Edge to Zantetsu.  :beer:

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 01, 2015, 08:07:55 pm
Quote
I've changed Iron Edge to Zantetsu.  :beer:

Hooray!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 02, 2015, 07:04:27 pm
Keep us posted with any other things throughout your playthroughs so we can correct any glaring issues.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 02, 2015, 10:05:54 pm
Namingway: Finozomb? Shouldn't that be Dinozomb?

For consistency, I'd also recommend changing (clothing)White to (clothing)Wht.Robe.

This was odd: when I found the Red Fang in a chest, it just said "Found Red". The word Fang was missing (and I don't think there was a period at the end).
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 02, 2015, 10:57:36 pm
Finozomb and Red have been fixed already. Wht.Robe / Blk.Robe may be Rodimus' call if he wants to call them as such in Namingway; Blk.Garb is DarkGear in Vanilla, as I tried to avoid abbreviations as much as possible!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 02, 2015, 11:16:22 pm
The spear that says "Woe to he" should say "Woe to him." The pronoun needs to be in the objective case because it's the object of the preposition.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 03, 2015, 01:49:25 am
Changed to "Woe unto him who seeks the Spear of Light!"

Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 03, 2015, 12:42:28 pm
Wht. Robe and Blk. Robe works. I initially thought it might have been better not to but looking at it now, it makes sense.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 03, 2015, 04:31:58 pm
I'll just change them on my end, then, because I've made several changes to Namingway so far that'd need to get send over anyway.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 03, 2015, 08:02:25 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 03, 2015, 11:34:27 pm
Here's a strange one: when I got to Zemus, the dialogue box where Cecil is supposed to shout the names of Fusoya and Golbez was completely blank. It didn't even say Cecil's name.

You really should have left Zemus saying "Silly!"  :P Or Edge saying, "I was to get him!" I didn't even realize how bad the translation was...

Also, can anyone explain to me why when I threw the Cleaver at Zeromus, it just said "Nothing happened" and did no damage?! Man, Zeromus is such a pushover! Was it always this way? Meteor didn't even hit any of my people when he cast it.

Translation suggestions:

"Buffs became invalid" seems awkwardly worded to me. How about just "Buffs removed" or "Buffs are removed"?

Fusoya's parting line. . . I'm a big Trekkie, but . . . . . . I'd change that.

Luca says "Cecil and others," which should probably be "Cecil and the others".

Rosa says "a while" instead of "awhile."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 12:29:14 am
Here's a strange one: when I got to Zemus, the dialogue box where Cecil is supposed to shout the names of Fusoya and Golbez was completely blank. It didn't even say Cecil's name.

You really should have left Zemus saying "Silly!"  :P Or Edge saying, "I was to get him!" I didn't even realize how bad the translation was...

Also, can anyone explain to me why when I threw the Cleaver at Zeromus, it just said "Nothing happened" and did no damage?! Man, Zeromus is such a pushover! Was it always this way? Meteor didn't even hit any of my people when he cast it.

Translation suggestions:

"Buffs became invalid" seems awkwardly worded to me. How about just "Buffs removed" or "Buffs are removed"?

Fusoya's parting line. . . I'm a big Trekkie, but . . . . . . I'd change that.

Luca says "Cecil and others," which should probably be "Cecil and the others".

Rosa says "a while" instead of "awhile."

Meteor failing is a programmed aspect of the battle as its meant to show his strength ebbing away and only occurs when he has less than 10000 HP remaining. It's a neat idea....

I somewhat feel that Project II never went into his AI script and changed the Spell Power jumps back to their FFIV level and their still in their SNES FFII stage.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 01:03:18 am
Was Zeromus different in the Japanese version? The Gamer Corner guide for the PlayStation version has question marks for his stats, except for his HP being 130,000. Still, when I played the PlayStation version years ago, he seemed far harder.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 04, 2015, 01:08:38 am
His AI may have been changed further for FFII US. All I did was restore the original stats, and yes, Grimoire LD--I did restore all foes' Magic Power. :)

Edit -

Here's a strange one: when I got to Zemus, the dialogue box where Cecil is supposed to shout the names of Fusoya and Golbez was completely blank. It didn't even say Cecil's name.
Peculiar. It's exclusive to Namingway. But, fixed. I had to reword some things slightly elsewhere, but Cecil shouting their names is there now. I also fixed an error with the chocobos exclusive to Namingway: "Giddyup, cocobo!"

Also, can anyone explain to me why when I threw the Cleaver at Zeromus, it just said "Nothing happened" and did no damage?!
Not a clue. That's happened to me, too. It's random, though; I assure you that you can hit Zeromus with the Cleaver.

"Buffs became invalid" seems awkwardly worded to me. How about just "Buffs removed" or "Buffs are removed"?
I wanted to clearly write "Positive status effects have become invalid." But there wasn't enough room. I can change it to "Positive status removed."?

Fusoya's parting line. . . I'm a big Trekkie, but . . . . . . I'd change that.
No way, man! I don't even watch Star Trek, but I thought it was a great fit there. It even sounds like something Fusoya might say.

Luca says "Cecil and others," which should probably be "Cecil and the others".
Fixed in both patches.

Rosa says "a while" instead of "awhile."
Also fixed.

So, is that all then? Thanks for playing it to the end! :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 01:13:41 am
Now I'm confused about his HP. A couple websites say it's only 65,000, but he restores it all once he gets low on HP though it doesn't show it on screen?

Big Bang did less than 2000 damage to everyone, which was easily healed by Rosa. Maybe I just sucked when I played before.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 04, 2015, 01:17:44 am
That is peculiar. Is there any way we have of checking how much damage Big Bang does in FFIV's Japanese version compared to FFII US? Lik, its spell power or something.

Edit - And yes, that's Zeromus for you. He has a lot of HP and then it gets a refresh when it gets low.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 07:03:02 am
That is peculiar. Is there any way we have of checking how much damage Big Bang does in FFIV's Japanese version compared to FFII US? Lik, its spell power or something.

Edit - And yes, that's Zeromus for you. He has a lot of HP and then it gets a refresh when it gets low.

You might want to take a look at this Vivify93 and plan on putting those back into FFII.

http://rb.thundaga.com/data/ff2-4_atk_sequence_differences.txt

The section of interest here at the moment  is Zeromus' Spell Power being modified.

6. Sequence 4C: Zeromus' attack sequence has four small changes. During this sequence, he resets his magic
power four times. In FF4j, these values are 0x27, 0x27, 0x31, and 0x27. This is changed to 0x1F, 0x20, 0x24, and 0x20 in FF2us.
7. Sequence 4D: Zeromus' reflex sequence also resets his magic power. In FF4j it uses the value of 0x15, in FF2us it's 0x0E.
8. Sequence 4E: Same sequence as #7.
9. Sequence 55: Similar to #6. Values of 0x27, 0x15, and 0x27 are changed to 0x1F, 0x0E, and 0x20.
10. Sequence 58: Similar to #6. Value of 0x28 is changed to 0x24.

So there you have it. To fix this all you would need to do is change the "Modify Spell Power By..." in his AI Scripts and that make Zeromus back into his FFIV slaughtering self rather than the watered down Big Bang.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 07:38:31 am
Oh, you should totally make those changes and I'll try Zeromus again! Making the change to Asura and the White Dragon will also be nice (though I'll admit I never actually cast Asura)!

Edit: In the meantime, I'll just try to get the Adamant Armor, Glass Mask, and Giant's Gloves! I didn't even know the latter two existed until today. (Crap, apparently there's a ton of very rare weapon drops I didn't know about either!)

Wait, why in Namingway is it still called PinkPuff? Shouldn't it be Princess, Flan, FlanPrin, or Flan Pr.? I'd opt for either Flan or Flan Pr.

Another edit: What about changing Selene to Moonmaid? She's called Moonmaiden in the DS and PSP releases.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 12:59:42 pm
Oh, you should totally make those changes and I'll try Zeromus again! Making the change to Asura and the White Dragon will also be nice (though I'll admit I never actually cast Asura)!

Edit: In the meantime, I'll just try to get the Adamant Armor, Glass Mask, and Giant's Gloves! I didn't even know the latter two existed until today. (Crap, apparently there's a ton of very rare weapon drops I didn't know about either!)

Wait, why in Namingway is it still called PinkPuff? Shouldn't it be Princess, Flan, FlanPrin, or Flan Pr.? I'd opt for either Flan or Flan Pr.

Another edit: What about changing Selene to Moonmaid? She's called Moonmaiden in the DS and PSP releases.

I imagine they're still called PinkPuff out of tribute to the maker of the program which is making all of this possible, who is called PinkPuff.

FFIV has a lot of ridiculously rare equipment that a player will Likely never see. 1 of 64 from a 25% chance in the first place is just too little of a chance in my opinion. Part of the reason why I changed the rare drop 1/32 in Combat Boost and it makes quite a difference.

To clarify the thing about Asura is that it makes the fight easier. Her healing herself actually makes things more difficult rather than her buffing herself with the Absolutely Worthless Protect.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 01:25:17 pm
Quote
I imagine they're still called PinkPuff out of tribute to the maker of the program which is making all of this possible, who is called PinkPuff.
Ah. I was unaware. Of course, even if it were changed in Namingway, it would remain PinkPuff in Project II.

Quote
FFIV has a lot of ridiculously rare equipment that a player will Likely never see. 1 of 64 from a 25% chance in the first place is just too little of a chance in my opinion.
Agreed. I was only joking about trying to get them. The Pink Tail is actually easier to get than the others because you find the PinkPuffs (Flan Princesses) in batches of five! An individual enemy, like a Blue Dragon, only has a 5% chance of dropping an item, right? It would be madness, then, to try to grind Blue Dragons for the Dragon Whisker! Hey--was the glitch whereby it's not actually strong against Dragons corrected in Project II???

Quote
To clarify the thing about Asura is that it makes the fight easier. Her healing herself actually makes things more difficult rather than her buffing herself with the Absolutely Worthless Protect.
I'd still opt changing it for Namingway, at least, so that it conforms to the Japanese original, although only if the summon version can also be changed--is that possible? Far more important, though, to make such Zeromus's Big Bang has its full strength!

February 04, 2015, 02:44:25 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well, I'm all done now (pending a rematch against a beefed-up Zeromus), so I'd like to thank vivify93, Rodimus Primal and everybody else whose work created this! I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

My final comments:

Why are Thunder arrows (and Crossbow) now for sale at Baron? You shouldn't be able to buy Thunder arrows till Troia. It makes the Waterway easier, and I don't see why it should be. I'd also still advocate for changing the claw prices back to their originals, though it's trivial. Nearly all the other changes to the game are based on things that were dummied out of the original release, so these changes seem arbitrary to me.

What if the (knife)Cleaver were called the (knife)Kitchen? The name in the modern versions is Kitchen Knife.

Now I'm off to play Spooniest's textual fix-up of FF V!  8)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 04, 2015, 03:16:09 pm
- The Crossbow and Thunder Arrows are there so Porom has something to do in her last dungeon instead of just sitting there, doing nothing, until someone needs to be healed. True, she could cry at them now, and... then what? Cry a couple times and then sit there. I guess Tellah could sap some MP from her, too, if needed...

- I honestly do really think it's trivial that the Thunder Claws are the same price as the other claws. They all literally do the same thing, but with a different element.

- I'm considering asking Rodimus Primal to make the AI changes...

- Kitchen Knife would be his call, too.

Glad you more or less had fun with Project II, Chrysologus.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 04, 2015, 04:12:36 pm
Since we were going for a true to FF4j game, changing Zeromus 's power should be done. I can do it. I like the idea of Kitchen Knife better than Cleaver. So (Knife) Kitchen it will be.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 04, 2015, 04:20:45 pm
The lady in the Baron item shop has an extra y at the end of her sentence. Perhaps you could add a new dialogue with this y like "You know it's better to feel safe than sorry."

February 04, 2015, 04:26:34 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also the "Ow!" used when you talk to a fireplace doesn't sound natural. Can you change it to " YOUCH! HOT HOT HOT!"

February 04, 2015, 04:28:18 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And whatever happened to the stripping dancer at Baron?

February 04, 2015, 04:43:00 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also Kain has the Willpower and Spirit stats. Could you give him some basic black or white magic like Fire, Ice, Lit and Cure for him to use?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 05:15:48 pm
Quote
The Crossbow and Thunder Arrows are there so Porom has something to do in her last dungeon instead of just sitting there, doing nothing, until someone needs to be healed.
I didn't think of that. I get it now. I didn't give her a bow (didn't occur to me).

Quote
Glad you more or less had fun with Project II, Chrysologus.
I had tons of fun! That's why I gave so much feedback. It's such a great hack, it's like how this game should have been.

Quote
Could you give him some basic black or white magic like Fire, Ice, Lit and Cure for him to use?
Dragoons can't cast spells!

Quote
Since we were going for a true to FF4j game, changing Zeromus 's power should be done. I can do it.
Yay!!! You're the best. Looking forward with eagerness to that! (That will also give me a chance to level Rydia up to get Meteo(r)! I guess the game makers really didn't want you to be casting Meteo(r)!) Are you going to change the White Dragon and/or Asura as well?

I actually just remembered that I was going to ask why the Dwarf shopkeeper vanishes later in the game. Is that deliberate? Did you have to remove him to make space or something, or is this a glitch?

Also, for Namingway (of course!), (shuriken)Ninja should be (shuriken)Fuma, yes?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 05:21:14 pm
I didn't think of that. I get it now. I didn't give her a bow (didn't occur to me).
I had tons of fun! That's why I gave so much feedback. It's such a great hack, it's like how this game should have been.
Dragoons can't cast spells!
Yay!!! You're the best. Looking forward with eagerness to the Zeromus change! That will also give me a chance to level Rydia up to get Meteo(r)! I guess the game makers really didn't want you to be casting Meteo(r)! (Are you going to change the White Dragon and/or Asura as well?)

I actually just remembered that I was going to ask why the Dwarf shopkeeper vanishes later in the game. Is that deliberate? Did you have to remove him to make space or something, or is this a glitch?

Also, for Namingway (of course!), (shuriken)Ninja should be (shuriken)Fuma, yes?

There's a reason they don't want the player casting Meteo... it has Awful charge time, Bahamut has 3, Meteo has 10. Meteo does deal 200 base damage which is Incredulous, and can deal 9999 to anything it touches with Rydia, but Bahamut already can do that without that extremely high charge time and he has only 60 base damage.

It's a shame, but no version of FFIV has ever made Meteo a viable choice over Bahamut as far as I've found.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 04, 2015, 05:36:27 pm
Well Kain has some unused casting animations. Perhaps this hack should use them for some basic spells.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 06:07:29 pm
Well Kain has some unused casting animations. Perhaps this hack should use them for some basic spells.

This hack only aims to put things as they were originally (and upgrading some things that needed updated like the Dummy'd commands!) therefore having Kain learn magic would not fit with the theme of this hack.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 07:16:17 pm
Quote
There's a reason they don't want the player casting Meteo... it has Awful charge time, Bahamut has 3, Meteo has 10.
Reduce cast time to 2? Might be interesting.  ;D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 04, 2015, 07:21:49 pm
The lady in the Baron item shop has an extra y at the end of her sentence. Perhaps you could add a new dialogue with this y like "You know it's better to feel safe than sorry."
Fixed. You're playing Namingway Edition, I see. When I started advertising Namingway as a feature, I was worried no one would play Vanilla anymore. I really, really hate all the abbreviations in Namingway, to be honest, and I recommend vanilla Project II above all...

Also the "Ow!" used when you talk to a fireplace doesn't sound natural. Can you change it to " YOUCH! HOT HOT HOT!"

Also Kain has the Willpower and Spirit stats. Could you give him some basic black or white magic like Fire, Ice, Lit and Cure for him to use?
No and no. Sorry. There's not enough room to write, "YEOWCH! Hot, hot, hot!", and giving Kain magic would be out of the scope of this mod.

And whatever happened to the stripping dancer at Baron?
She's been gone in FFII US. You're about 24 years too late, I'm afraid! :P I'm pretty sure the code for her events is gone and can't easily be restored.

I actually just remembered that I was going to ask why the Dwarf shopkeeper vanishes later in the game. Is that deliberate? Did you have to remove him to make space or something, or is this a glitch?
It's an unintended bug, I gather. The second shopkeep was removed from FFII US since he only sold dummied status-healing items, so I had to actually remove an NPC and make him into the new shopkeep.

I have to ask, though--when did you notice his disappearance? If it was after you can freely travel between the Overworld and Underworld, that's fine, since you can go any number of places to get the status heals after that. If it was before, we have a problem.

Edit - His presence seems to be deactivated after going to the Moon, so there's no problem.

Fuma Shuriken has been fixed already; not sure how it got reverted to Ninja Star.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 04, 2015, 08:03:26 pm
Quote
When I started advertising Namingway as a feature, I was worried no one would play Vanilla anymore. I really, really hate all the abbreviations in Namingway, to be honest, and I recommend vanilla Project II above all...
The way I see it, it depends on whether you're looking at this from an SNES/classic gaming point of view or a Final Fantasy point of view. From the classic gaming point of view, abbreviations are unnecessary and strange. From the Final Fantasy point of view, the short, different names are inconsistent and obscure the game.

Quote
His presence seems to be deactivated after going to the Moon, so there's no problem.
He must have taken a vacation. If only there were a way to change one of the other Dwarves dialogue to comment about his absence! That would be funny.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 04, 2015, 11:28:21 pm
Fixed. You're playing Namingway Edition, I see. When I started advertising Namingway as a feature, I was worried no one would play Vanilla anymore. I really, really hate all the abbreviations in Namingway, to be honest, and I recommend vanilla Project II above all...

While Namingway was my idea and my contribution to the project, at the end of the day this is, as it always was, your mod. It's still your work.
Your work on the script and features. The excellent title screen. The incorporation of chillyfeez's features, etc.
That's why Namingway is distributed WITH Project II. People have the option of both. I'm just a contributer.

On a side note, I'm really wondering where typos are coming from. It bothers me that there are any errors caused that I didn't do, and I don't think vivify did either.

Namingway Edition will have the modified Zeromus script. Thanks a bunch Grimiore LD and Deathlike2!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 05, 2015, 12:24:27 am
Quote
Namingway Edition will have the modified Zeromus script. Thanks a bunch Grimiore LD and Deathlike2!
When is it coming?! I can't hardly wait! Thank you!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 05, 2015, 12:34:40 am
For what it's worth, Vivify93, I'm in your camp about abbreviations. I'm not quite as chapped by the alternative as you seem to be... But I also didn't put so much of my heart and soul into a project whose aim was to clean up and restore the experience of playing this game, so your stance is understandable.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 05, 2015, 01:33:36 am
Thank you, chillyfeez; that's all I've been trying to get across all along. But nonetheless, Namingway Edition is done. v2.07 will be released soon, though submission to the RHDN database will wait until later.

Edit - Here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-07.zip) it is! Sorry it took so long; ever since I had that accident with an earlier upload, I've been very meticulous about archiving my work. ;D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 05, 2015, 09:57:39 am
Yay!!!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 05, 2015, 04:39:44 pm
In the Namingway edition, Ethers are called Tinct. Can you change it back to Ether?

Also, can you change SandRuby into SandPerl or Sand Gem?

February 05, 2015, 04:46:42 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And for the Namingway patch, the StopTrap and MagicMap could be changed to Silk Web and DwfBread.

February 05, 2015, 04:50:21 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And can you change Parry back into Defend
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 05, 2015, 05:58:14 pm
If you downloaded the latest version from vivify's link above, did you make sure it was with an unmodified headered Final Fantasy II 1.1 ROM? Both Vanilla Project II and Project II Namingway Edition are complete patches that don't need to be applied one on top of the other.

It's already Ether in Namingway. StopTrap is {hourglass}Bronze.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 05, 2015, 06:13:51 pm
In the Namingway edition, Ethers are called Tinct. Can you change it back to Ether?

Also, can you change SandRuby into SandPerl or Sand Gem?

And for the Namingway patch, the StopTrap and MagicMap could be changed to Silk Web and DwfBread.

And can you change Parry back into Defend
Parry can't be easily changed. In the strings for little battle dialogue, there's "NeedMPParyChnge", and the "Pary" string doubles its own r to spell Parry; meanwhile, Chnge takes Pary's a to spell Change. Similarly, the NedMP string Otherwise, I would've made Change into Row a long time ago. As it stands, trying to turn Chnge into Row in battle turns it into "Roaw."

Stop Traps are actually the Hourglasses. Silk Webs are as they are. :) Remember, Namingway is a separate patch, to be applied to a normal, unmodified FFII US v1.1 ROM with a header, just as Rodimus said.

Edit - And it would be Rodimus' call if he wanted to make SandRuby to Sand Pearl or Sand Gem.

I forgot to say, it was an interesting suggestion to add dialogue to that woman in Baron's item shop, Cavery210, and I'd like to do it--but there just plumb isn't enough room. :(
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 05, 2015, 07:42:18 pm
Ah, Rydia is a summoner! Looks great. But what gives with "Summon" being squished into only 4 tiles on the magic menu? It looks weird and then there's an unused fifth tile after it! Shouldn't it be squished into 5 in exactly the same way as it appears on the battle menu?

I like the hourglass icon.

Edit: I also have an aesthetic suggestion for the squishy tiles in names. Could you add a single pixel on the left edge so that the first squishy letter doesn't touch the previous letter? (As it is, I would have to agree with Vivify93 that they are not worth it.) You'll have to trim a single pixel from a letter, but I don't think that would be a problem. For instance, the k in the squishy "ink" (Pink Puff), the "n" in "ing" (PowerRing), and the "n" in "ian" (Red Giant), the "n" in "ind" (MindBlast), and the "n" in "ino" (Dinozombi) could all lose their leftmost pixel. I think that would look much better.

Edit 2: Doesn't the FAQ claim that Flare will now punch through Reflect (Wall)? Cause it certainly does not!

Edit 3: Does anyone know why I just had Rydia cast Flare on a Behemoth and it didn't cast Maelstrom against us as a counter (instead it attacked as a counter)? Was that removed from the SNES version? (If so, can we add it back!) Edit 4: OK, it just used Maelstrom in response to Holy. Is it just a percentage chance or what?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 05, 2015, 09:49:14 pm
Flare as in the Twincast spell Pyro. You need to remember Flare was called Nuke, and Pyro was called Flare in FFII US. I was using FFII US terminology to not confuse people with all my new jargon. If the normal spell Nuke pierced Wall, it'd ruin a lot of enemy AI.

There is no room to spell out the word Summon in the ROM, so the squish-tile compromise had to be made.

The rest of that is probably stuff to be directed at Rodimus Primal.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 05, 2015, 09:57:53 pm
Quote
There is no room to spell out the word Summon in the ROM, so the squish-tile compromise had to be made.
How can that be, since it is squished into 5 character on the battle menu? Can't the version on the battle menu also be used for the spell menu? If it can't be for whatever reason, I'd advocate changing it back because the tiny "Summon" looks out of place.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 05, 2015, 10:54:56 pm
It's the same problem I ran into with the FFIIj with the pointers. Ninja Magic comes RIGHT AFTER Call/Summon in the space where the battle menu names are. IF there was a way to change those pointers it could easily fit. But FFIIUS squeezed the word Call in between Black and Ninja. So Summon in the battle menu MUST be 4 characters. I can try to redraw it to make it fit better, but there isn't room for the extra character. Everywhere else, Summon fits.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 05, 2015, 10:58:18 pm
Quote
It's the same problem I ran into with the FFIIj with the pointers. Ninja Magic comes RIGHT AFTER Call/Summon in the space where the battle menu names are. IF there was a way to change those pointers it could easily fit. But FFIIUS squeezed the word Call in between Black and Ninja. So Summon in the battle menu MUST be 4 characters. I can try to redraw it to make it fit better, but there isn't room for the extra character. Everywhere else, Summon fits.

Okay, I understand now. Personally, I don't think it's going to be possible to make it look good in 4 characters. Why not just make it Summ (or leave it as Call)?

In case anyone was wondering, I crushed the new Zeromus! He did actually manage to kill people this time, though, and my levels were quite a bit higher than before! Flare did 2700 damage to Edward, and Big Bang sometimes hit people for over 2000. And, yes, this time the Kitchen Knife found its mark!

Thanks again, everyone!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 05, 2015, 11:09:29 pm
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/FFIV Namingway Summon 1.png)

I just redrew the word Summon in the tiles. It's still squished terribly even for my standards, but it works for the time being until someone can tell me how to change specifically THAT pointer to another location in the ROM.

February 05, 2015, 11:33:28 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I redrew again, this time with my wife's keen eye for how it looks. Her and I both agree on this one is as good as its going to get.

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/FFIV Namingway Summon 2.png)

BTW, it's her birthday tonight so I'm sure this isn't how she expected to spend some of it...She needs a  :cookie:  >:D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 05, 2015, 11:52:46 pm
Thank you, Rodimus' wife! :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: pinkpuff on February 06, 2015, 06:10:37 am
I changed "Call" to "Sumon" in both battle and the menu using FF4kster and nothing messed up in the rom... not that I could see at least...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 06, 2015, 07:18:09 am
If we could change our little squish tile fest to try and spell Summon, we could do that. I just don't wanna mess anything up and if it doesn't, there's no reason not to change it. Thanks Pinkpuff :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 06, 2015, 12:15:03 pm
Is it possible to squish it in a way where you can use one letter as normal and the others are squished? Like for example, the S would be normal but the "ummon" part would be squished into four characters?

EDIT: Nevermind, seems like I'm misinterpreting the issue. What about having Summon spelled out in the menu but squished in the battle?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 06, 2015, 06:22:12 pm
I changed "Call" to "Sumon" in both battle and the menu using FF4kster and nothing messed up in the rom... not that I could see at least...

Cool. Found it. But I ran into a little issue. If you change it in the menu, it doesn't move Ninja so the u character shows up. It's present in the space in between all the menu commands in HEX, but because Sumon is five characters, it doesn't know to end there. Then if you go into Edge's menu, it screws the menu up completely.

To give example, White 00 70 01 Black 00 70 01 Call 00 70 01 Ninja 00 70 01.

The 70 reads as the letter u but the three create a function I suppose. There seems to be space after this so if everything was pushed one character it would work. Even if you change it in FF4Kster it messes up the menu when you look at Edge's magic. 
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 06, 2015, 08:35:04 pm
Your best bet it sounds like is to find out where the menu text is being called and then make a table out of the letters.  The rest can be handled with Atlas and Cartographer when appropriately setup.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 06, 2015, 09:23:14 pm
There are two unused menu magic labels after Ninja that some not too difficult hacking could point to.
Find the exact location in ROM of "Call's" C and set a breakpoint to it in Geiger's (remember you'll have to convert to LoROM). At the break, observe the value of (probably) x. Trace back a few ops to where x is set, and adjust it so that it points to one of the aforementioned unused spaces instead.
I found this all once, but I wasn't looking for it at the time, so like a dummy I didn't document it. Sorry.
If this is still an ongoing issue the next time I have some free time (Sunday?), I can look into it for you guys.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 06, 2015, 09:55:44 pm
There are two unused menu magic labels after Ninja that some not too difficult hacking could point to.
Find the exact location in ROM of "Call's" C and set a breakpoint to it in Geiger's (remember you'll have to convert to LoROM). At the break, observe the value of (probably) x. Trace back a few ops to where x is set, and adjust it so that it points to one of the aforementioned unused spaces instead.
I found this all once, but I wasn't looking for it at the time, so like a dummy I didn't document it. Sorry.
If this is still an ongoing issue the next time I have some free time (Sunday?), I can look into it for you guys.

I've seen those before as well Chillyfeez, when I asked about them a long time ago I was told that they're the blank space for "no magic" for instance White (No Magic), (No Magic). Seemed an odd way to go about it in any event if such is the case.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 06, 2015, 10:04:38 pm
Even if that's what they're for (which seems really weird), there's no reason both blanks can't point to the same blank space, and one be used for something else.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 06, 2015, 10:37:39 pm
Even if that's what they're for (which seems really weird), there's no reason both blanks can't point to the same blank space, and one be used for something else.

Indeed, I do hope some looking into the pointers will clarify something about this.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 06, 2015, 10:44:40 pm
To be honest guys, I'm content with keeping it as is unless someone else wants to take a crack at it. It says Summon, the letters aren't touching like they were and Rydia is now a Summoner, as she should be IMO. The version currently uploaded to the site is not that version, however it will be upon vivify's next update. Like I said before if someone can do it just to extend by ONE hexidecimal point without messing up the rest of the game by all means. I have the tiles there for a 5 tile Summon as used in the battle menu.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: pinkpuff on February 07, 2015, 07:42:06 am
Does changing "Ninja" help? i.e. "Arts" perhaps?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 07, 2015, 10:11:58 am
Without looking for the pointers, changing or moving Ninja over results in Edge's magic to say Black instead of Ninja.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 08, 2015, 11:31:54 am
Change Twin Harp in the Namingway patch to WispWeed or EchoPlant.
More eyepleasing alternative names to enemies in Namingway edition.
Gigntoad - Gigatoad
FireKngt- Fire Kn.
YellwJelly: Y. Jelly
Rubicante's battle name - Rubicant
ThundrD. - Bolt Drgn
White D. - W. Drgn
FellKngt. - Fell Kn.
MythrGol. - MtGolem
BkKnight -  Blck Nite
Li'lKiller - Lilmurder
Dinozombi - Zombisaur
D.Sahagin - Sandhag
Pink Puff - Pink Flan
SoulKngt - Soul Kn.
G. Needle - Gold Pin
Antarctic - Sth Wind
Arctic - NrthWind
For Basic Patch
Gale -Wind
Venom - Toxic
Fury - Either Besrk or Power
Pearl - Fader
Fast - Haste
Ice1 - Ice 1
Lit - Elec or Bolt







Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 08, 2015, 12:12:53 pm
Quote
Change Twin Harp in the Namingway patch to WispWeed or EchoPlant.
More eyepleasing alternative names to enemies in Namingway edition.
Gigntoad - Gigatoad
FireKngt- Fire Kn.
YellwJelly: Y. Jelly
Rubicante's battle name - Rubicant
ThundrD. - Bolt Drgn
White D. - W. Drgn
FellKngt. - Fell Kn.
MythrGol. - MtGolem
BkKnight -  Blck Nite
Li'lKiller - Lilmurder
Dinozombi - Zombisaur
D.Sahagin - Sandhag
Pink Puff - Pink Flan
SoulKngt - Soul Kn.
G. Needle - Gold Pin
Antarctic - Sth Wind
Arctic - NrthWind

Hmm, I think almost all of those suggestions for Namingway would be worse than the present. I especially don't want to the Dragon names changed! They are perfect.

However, changing TwinHarp would make sense. Whisper, maybe?

No one ever responded to my suggestion about the way the squishy tiles being redrawn so that they don't touch the letter to the left. :(
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 08, 2015, 01:26:17 pm
Wait, what? Fury should be Bserk unless Rodimus changed it...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 08, 2015, 05:06:59 pm
The shopkeeper still doesn't say I buy most things! when you sell items. Also it'll be cool if there was a patch that made Zeromus like he was in Easy Type, complete with new sprite and Count. Also the tossed dress sprite is unused. Also, did you fix the text strings that are supposed to show up when you fight Yang in Baron? Also can you fix the infamous inconsistent Airship and make Rydia learn Cure2 by leveling instead of when she appears in the Dwarven Castle?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 08, 2015, 05:09:11 pm
I didn't change Berserk back to Fury. Maybe they're using an old version?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 08, 2015, 07:50:16 pm
I'd really like to fix / do all those things, but I don't know how! :( Of them all, I think the most viable would be to have Child Rydia learn Cure2 via leveling. She'd still learn it in the event since I don't know how to delete events, (Maybe I could change it to she learns nothing instead of Cure2?) but at least it'd be usable.

Any other thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 08, 2015, 09:22:20 pm
I know Rodimus expresed indifference on whether this gets figured out or not, but it's info I might want to use eventually anyway, so...

How to Turn "Call" into a Five Characer Word in the Magic Menu:
1) Open ROM with a hex editor
2) Jump to $00/B1A3
3) Change the two bytes at B1A3 from "FC B1" to "0B B2"
4) Jump to $00/B40C
5) Change it from "00" to "01"
6) Fill in your five character label beginning at B40D

That'll do it.

EDIT: These offsets are in ROM with header, btw
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 08, 2015, 11:36:47 pm
Sweet. Just did this now and its looking good. Summon fits just right now. I'm going to do a couple optimizations and release this very soon.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 09, 2015, 09:38:45 am
Found a bug. The Captain in the Fabul battle event says Captain: Golbez: Shadow was..
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 09, 2015, 07:11:18 pm
I checked both Project II and Namingway in FF4kster, and Battle Msg. #82 (Captain: Charge!) was fine in each version. I tested Project II and it looks like it displays fine... I should check Namingway though.

Edit - I checked both, and they seem to be fine... no idea how you're experiencing that bug.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 09, 2015, 08:14:19 pm
It looks like the sort of bug one has when one uses a header on a non-headered rom, actually, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 09, 2015, 08:23:22 pm
It looks like the sort of bug one has when one uses a header on a non-headered rom, actually, doesn't it?


You mean uses a non-headered ROM with a patch that requires a header? Yes. It does sound like that.


Project II requires a headered ROM. If your ROM isn't headered, use Tush (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/608/) before patching.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on February 09, 2015, 08:27:06 pm
Yes, that, blah.

I'd say it might be easier to offer non-headered patches, but that'd just make -four- patches in your files to gave out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 10, 2015, 10:17:11 am
Namingway Edition is now updated to Version 1.04. Lots of little fixes including the Summon in the magic menu (big thanks to chillyfeez!)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 10, 2015, 02:00:50 pm
Is there any way you could alter the programming of Project II to make it so you hold the B button to dash?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 10, 2015, 03:02:49 pm
That was chillyfeez 's work with his User Options patch. He made it the L button to toggle but it can be switched to the B button. But the hold to dash I don't think is feasible.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 10, 2015, 03:14:52 pm
Switched to the B button you say?

Good assembly coding should do the trick id think

Idk why nobody wants to write code, I guess it's just too hard

But thank you I didn't think of that
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 10, 2015, 03:26:23 pm
My ROM was headered i think.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 10, 2015, 04:25:24 pm
I would think the hold to dash wouldn't be that difficult?  I'm not sure on how it works in most games but I'm pretty much assuming it's checking if you're holding down the button, if so, increase speed, otherwise load default.  I wouldn't THINK it'd be too difficult but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 10, 2015, 04:28:34 pm
My ROM was headered i think.

I'd double check. Download the new version anyway. Use a clean 1.1 ROM and use Tush to add a header. Then patch either Vanilla OR Namingway Project II over it.

Switched to the B button you say?

Good assembly coding should do the trick id think

Idk why nobody wants to write code, I guess it's just too hard

But thank you I didn't think of that

I think it has to do with understanding of the code. I'm sure chillyfeez tried, as others probably have before. If you think you can do it, I say go for it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 10, 2015, 04:34:25 pm
Switched to the B button you say?

Good assembly coding should do the trick id think

Idk why nobody wants to write code, I guess it's just too hard

But thank you I didn't think of that
I would think the hold to dash wouldn't be that difficult?  I'm not sure on how it works in most games but I'm pretty much assuming it's checking if you're holding down the button, if so, increase speed, otherwise load default.  I wouldn't THINK it'd be too difficult but I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, it is by no accounts easy, or in my experience even possible to make it actually work.
Don't get me wrong, I love writing code. It's my favorite part of ROM hacking, and User Options has a lot of custom written code. But the problem with the option to hold the L button (or B if you prefer) is that the game gets out of sync any time the speed changes while moving. If anybody here wants to take a crack at making it work, be my guest. But I will be extremely impressed if you can get it to work. I have literally spent hours on the venture and come up empty, which is why I went with a toggle.

By the way, if you read the ReadMe for User Options, I included simple instructions on how to switch to B button running (instead of L). It involves changing only (I think) two bytes with a hex editor).
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 10, 2015, 10:08:30 pm
Unfortunately, it is by no accounts easy, or in my experience even possible to make it actually work.
Don't get me wrong, I love writing code. It's my favorite part of ROM hacking, and User Options has a lot of custom written code. But the problem with the option to hold the L button (or B if you prefer) is that the game gets out of sync any time the speed changes while moving. If anybody here wants to take a crack at making it work, be my guest. But I will be extremely impressed if you can get it to work. I have literally spent hours on the venture and come up empty, which is why I went with a toggle.

By the way, if you read the ReadMe for User Options, I included simple instructions on how to switch to B button running (instead of L). It involves changing only (I think) two bytes with a hex editor).

Oh, I was just going to reconfigure my buttons lol

There's got to be a way to get an emulator to recgonize two buttons mapped to the same button on the pad.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 10, 2015, 10:36:50 pm
Quote
Namingway Edition is now updated to Version 1.04.
It's amazing! Makes me want to replay the whole thing again. Are you planning to do more squishy tiles to update mores names for Namingway, or is this it?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 10, 2015, 11:37:49 pm
It's amazing! Makes me want to replay the whole thing again. Are you planning to do more squishy tiles to update mores names for Namingway, or is this it?
I think I'm content at this point. Unless there are any glaring issues, I don't think any more is necessary unless vivify93 comes up with any changes.

Oh, I was just going to reconfigure my buttons lol

There's got to be a way to get an emulator to recgonize two buttons mapped to the same button on the pad.

I kind of like it on the L button for it being toggle. If it was a hold to dash, I'd prefer the B button of course.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 11, 2015, 10:16:45 am
What do you mean the game gets out of sync?  Like how the character moves per pixel just decides to go off track or is there something else that goes awry?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 11, 2015, 10:57:43 am
What do you mean the game gets out of sync?  Like how the character moves per pixel just decides to go off track or is there something else that goes awry?

Ok, when you press the d-pad, there are approximately 8.783 billion different things the game checks for before you actually see Cecil move one space (that's a rough estimate  ;) ) - what terrain is in that direction, if that terrain is walkable, whether there is an obstacle, if that obstacle is mobile, if there is an event/warp trigger, whether a battle might occur, the probability of that battle... All of those things are stored in different locations in RAM, and are refreshed every step you take. Though the refreshes happen in the blink of an eye to you and me, they do not occur simultaneously with one another, nor do they occur simultaneously with the screen refresh that is responsible for making it look like Cecil actually just moved. When you change speeds mid-move, some of those pieces of information get refreshed more quickly than others, and more noticeably, more quickly than the screen refresh. Thus you might look like you're standing next to the Baron town Training Room, but the obstacle check thinks you're standing two spaces away from it, and the exit point check thinks you're  in the wrong place, too, etc.
Games that actually have a B button dash must go about all of this business in a drastically different way than FFIV - something different is going on in the game engine that accounts for the possibility of changing speeds while moving. Presumably, they reference a different Byte in RAM that toggles on and off depending of the set speed, but does not toggle until a full step has been taken. Unfortunately, I don't know exactly everything that goes on when a step is taken, which means it is impossible for me to pinpoint a location in the ROM that occurs after all of those checks take place, and I really know nothing about how SNES processes graphics, so I certainly don't know how the screen refresh actually works to be able to time that along with everything else. I found a line of code that runs when you are stationary but not when you are moving, which enabled the toggle to occur flawlessly (even that took some trial and error - jump back a few pages in this thread to see what I mean), but that I think is the best I can do here... Or at least I have too many other things I want to accomplish that are more important to me at the moment..
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 11, 2015, 02:51:17 pm
To sum up what Chillyfeez just said in a way non-nerds can understand, basically this glitch is what happens: http://youtu.be/jDjoHzfXo1M
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 11, 2015, 03:44:47 pm
To sum up what Chillyfeez just said in a way non-nerds can understand, basically this glitch is what happens: http://youtu.be/jDjoHzfXo1M

Which in order to fix it currently, it can only be enabled when standing still.

I wonder if that's the key to making a toggle into a hold to use. You have to stand still before holding to dash, and if you let go you have to stop running to switch back to walking...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 11, 2015, 06:06:45 pm
To sum up what Chillyfeez just said in a way non-nerds can understand, basically this glitch is what happens: http://youtu.be/jDjoHzfXo1M
Are there non-nerds paying attention to this thread about a 20 year old role playing video game on this forum dedicated to what is essentially interactive fan fiction?  ;)

Which in order to fix it currently, it can only be enabled when standing still.

I wonder if that's the key to making a toggle into a hold to use. You have to stand still before holding to dash, and if you let go you have to stop running to switch back to walking...
I actually did try that in a non released (and now lost in time) version. I didn't really like the flow of it, so I decided to stick with the toggle.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up... It's probably going to result in more failure, but somewhere along the lines of typing these recent diatribes, I did have an idea of a way to make "hold to dash" work. I started researching it this morning but I ran out of time before I had to get ready for work.
At this point, it's only based on a theory about parts of the code I haven't even explored fully yet... And if it doesn't work - which it probably won't - then I promised myself I will officially stop trying to do this, but the toggle is an admittedly imperfect solution to the dash problem, specifically because of how it makes events look kinda weird. So anyway, I'm reopening the book on this one last time, but I'm not too confident I'll finally crack it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 11, 2015, 06:43:31 pm
That is REALLY odd.  I wonder how the run code was implemented and where exactly in the code it was placed.  It might just need the code to be shuffled somewhere else to fix the problem but I wouldn't know since I haven't checked this games innards out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 11, 2015, 07:59:51 pm
That is REALLY odd.  I wonder how the run code was implemented and where exactly in the code it was placed.  It might just need the code to be shuffled somewhere else to fix the problem but I wouldn't know since I haven't checked this games innards out.

Run was only ever meant to be used in events and was never purposed for ordinary gameplay. This is probably why it is fairly unstable in a basic "press B to dash" meaning and toggling is exactly what the event does. Without a fairly extensive rewrite of a Lot of things, I think toggling is probably the closest we will be able to get. I would love to be wrong though.

February 11, 2015, 11:42:20 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Seems I stumbled upon an easy way to display class names to make them 8 character's long...

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n198/LastingDawn/FFIV-8CharacterJobNames_zps5f1b2983.png)

No squishy tiles, nothing odd like that. There is a Ton of unused space for Job names so you won't need to worry about overflowing it at all.

Would this be a matter of interest in this project?

This would give enough room for...

Summoner
Engineer
Guardian (FuSoYa refers to himself in this capacity as the Guardian of the Sleeping Lunarians. It makes more sense to me than just using his Race. All-Mage never sat well with me and reminded me too much of All-Magic from FFT's PSX translation on the Shrine Knights.


0x91E5 in a Headered Rom

Load 07 into A. Just change that to a 08.

Ah right! And before I forget I came across a glitch in Project II/Namingway...

The change to Porom's Cry decreases Magic Defense Rate by 1/2 of Porom's Will.

Reasonable enough... until your remember that Magic Defense Rate is just a fancy way of saying "Evasion" which is not re-activated in Project II (and is only activated in the DS version of all places) therefore Porom's Cry does.. nothing... again.

What you would want it to modify is the Enemy Magic Defense Base. Which is the raw numbers of damage it blocks between each casting.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 12, 2015, 03:08:46 am
Dude, sweet! I realize now that I don't think Rydia can become a Summoner in Vanilla due to the five-letter limit for command names, but I know Rodimus would be interested in this for sure. Come to think of it, it'd also be nice for Vanilla to make Cecil a D.Knight, expand Rosa's class to W.Wizard, turn Chief Cid into a proper Engineer, and make Fusoya and Omnimage or Arcanist. (Though I actually rather like the Guardian suggestion!)

One thing though, what does "Load 07 into A" mean?

Edit - Here's a look at some of my notes.
Code: [Select]
12345678
D.Knight (Changed from DKnight)
Dragoon
Caller (Can't be changed due to five-letter command limit and I am not looking to expand command names)
Sage
Bard
W.Wizard (Changed from Wh.Wiz.)
Monk
W.Mage (Changed from Wh.Mage; while Wht.Mage would fit comfortably, this is done for consistency with Cecil and Rosa)
B.Mage (Changed from Bl.Mage; while Blk.Mage would fit comfortably, this is done for consistency with Cecil and Rosa)
Engineer (Changed from Chief) *1
Ninja
Guardian (Changed from All-Mage; may possibly become Arcanist or Omnimage?) *2

*1 Change references of the twin engineers calling Cid "Boss" to calling him Chief for consistency
*2 If Guardian is decided upon, change Fusoya's introduction to "Lunarian Guardian Fusoya joined!"?

Reasons for not staying with Lunarian in Vanilla:

1. It's his race, not his class
2. Only monsters get their race as a class in FF; Fusoya is not a monster
3. Lunarian as a class mistakenly identifies all lunarians as super magic-wielding mega-combatants, which is false
4. Fusoya is too cool to not have his own unique class title

So what do you guys think? What should Fusoya's job be called in Vanilla? We have eight letters to work with.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 12, 2015, 07:00:03 am
Dude, sweet! I realize now that I don't think Rydia can become a Summoner in Vanilla due to the five-letter limit for command names, but I know Rodimus would be interested in this for sure. Come to think of it, it'd also be nice for Vanilla to make Cecil a D.Knight, expand Rosa's class to W.Wizard, turn Chief Cid into a proper Engineer, and make Fusoya and Omnimage or Arcanist. (Though I actually rather like the Guardian suggestion!)

One thing though, what does "Load 07 into A" mean?

Edit - Here's a look at some of my notes.
Code: [Select]
12345678
D.Knight (Changed from DKnight)
Dragoon
Caller (Can't be changed due to five-letter command limit and I am not looking to expand command names)
Sage
Bard
W.Wizard (Changed from Wh.Wiz.)
Monk
W.Mage (Changed from Wh.Mage; while Wht.Mage would fit comfortably, this is done for consistency with Cecil and Rosa)
B.Mage (Changed from Bl.Mage; while Blk.Mage would fit comfortably, this is done for consistency with Cecil and Rosa)
Engineer (Changed from Chief) *1
Ninja
Guardian (Changed from All-Mage; may possibly become Arcanist or Omnimage?) *2

*1 Change references of the twin engineers calling Cid "Boss" to calling him Chief for consistency
*2 If Guardian is decided upon, change Fusoya's introduction to "Lunarian Guardian Fusoya joined!"?

Reasons for not staying with Lunarian in Vanilla:

1. It's his race, not his class
2. Only monsters get their race as a class in FF; Fusoya is not a monster
3. Lunarian as a class mistakenly identifies all lunarians as super magic-wielding mega-combatants, which is false
4. Fusoya is too cool to not have his own unique class title

So what do you guys think? What should Fusoya's job be called in Vanilla? We have eight letters to work with.

Ah Load 07 into A, just means the amount of characters the game should allocate to class names in this case. Changing that from A907 to A908 increases it to 08 and uses all available space.


The name of Omnimage actually would work as well as Guardian as a reference to FFIV DS's Omnicast which you get from FuSoYa when he leaves the party. I would be against Arcanist due to its close relation to Summoners in FFXIV and FuSoYa not having that great of an MP Pool to be considered close to the idea of an Arcanist from FFTA2.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 12, 2015, 08:30:24 am
How does this work??? I am so confused. I changed Cecil from a DKnight to a D.Knight and Kain became a "tDragoon". Certain things are displaying OK but others not so much.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 12, 2015, 08:48:26 am
How does this work??? I am so confused. I changed Cecil from a DKnight to a D.Knight and Kain became a "tDragoon". Certain things are displaying OK but others not so much.
Hm. Is there a pointer to the beginning of each class's name? Or maybe the class ID is normally multiplied by 7 and now needs to be multiplied by 8...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 12, 2015, 09:46:27 am
I honestly have no idea how any of this works! I just do what people tell me if I need to do it. Most of the bug fixes were either easy (The Sealed Cave skip fix was remedied just by disabling the Warp OK bit in Giott's throne room.) or someone else told me how to do it. (The Adamant Armor bugs.)

Wish I could help you. :(
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 13, 2015, 10:41:58 am
It would be nice to have straight letters used in the class name. Pointers always seem to be an issue. I used squish tiles to make it work the best I could. As for the class IDs, that's how I thought things were named in the game but I think its most likely directly pointing to a location.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 13, 2015, 12:57:13 pm
Well, folks, bad news/good news...

First the bad:
As you know, I tried again to make "Hold B to Dash" work...
I cannot. make. it. work.
It just doesn't ever stop getting out of sync. I have tried making it check at the beginning of the step, I have tried making it check at the end of the step, I have tried to look for other places in the code that are conditional upon being in between steps. I just can't find a place to put my custom code that won't cause the game to get out of sync. I'm sorry. :banghead:

As I mentioned before, I can make it so that holding B is required (instead of a pure toggle), as long as you're ok with Dash only being turned on/off if you are not moving. I can release a patch for that if there is any interest in that. What's nice about that is that it won't make events look weird, because you're presumably always going to be walking when the event starts, so... yeah.

Anyway... now the good news:
I figured out the missing pieces to making Class names 8 characters.
Step-by-step instructions follow. I can explain what's going on here if anyone wants, but to make things easier, I'm just going to explain what you need to do.

(all offsets indicated here assume ROM with header)

1 ) Open your ROM in a hex editor

2 ) Jump to offset $00/91D5. It should read:
Code: [Select]
85 46 0A 85 45 0A 65 45 65 46
3 ) Change it to read:
Code: [Select]
0A 0A 0A EA EA EA EA EA EA EA
4 ) Jump to $01/1F42

5 ) Change the one byte there from C6 to D4

6 ) Jump to $07/A964. This is the beginning of Class names.

7 ) Give each class an 8-character name. Use spaces (FF) at the end of each class that is less than 8 characters to fill out the rest (For example, "Monk[space][space][space][space]"). Be sure to follow the same order and don't skip any, lest your characters end up with the wrong class!

8 ) You may notice by the end that you've begun to overwrite command names. You'll have to rewrite them, too. No, you can't make them more than 5 characters long, because we don't know how to make the command window in battle bigger  ;) Begin re-writing command names with "Fight" starting at $07/A9D4. They should be rewritten exactly as they were, just with a new starting point.

9 ) Save changes.

Ta-da!
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 13, 2015, 01:22:43 pm
Quote
As I mentioned before, I can make it so that holding B is required (instead of a pure toggle), as long as you're ok with Dash only being turned on/off if you are not moving. I can release a patch for that if there is any interest in that. What's nice about that is that it won't make events look weird, because you're presumably always going to be walking when the event starts, so... yeah.
That is a decisive improvement!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 13, 2015, 02:02:48 pm
That is a decisive improvement!
Well, I disagree. For the most part, it makes it feel... more like a hack IMHO - like it's obvious that's not how the game was programmed. Doesn't feel natural.
But I'm not doing this just for me, so I hear ya.
I'll get a patch out sometime soon.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 13, 2015, 04:33:07 pm
Awesome. Thanks so much for the job title tutorial, chillyfeez. This will break compatibility for altering command names with FF4kster, right? Just checking before I make the changes.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 13, 2015, 04:50:49 pm
Well, I disagree. For the most part, it makes it feel... more like a hack IMHO - like it's obvious that's not how the game was programmed. Doesn't feel natural.
But I'm not doing this just for me, so I hear ya.
I'll get a patch out sometime soon.

That would be cool. If you do, it would have to be something that will work over either Vanilla or Namingway since User Options is already implemented.

Also, I rewrote the Battle Command for Call into Summon as per your instructions so this wouldn't this mess with their pointers if we expanded the Job Classes?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 13, 2015, 06:09:03 pm
Awesome. Thanks so much for the job title tutorial, chillyfeez. This will break compatibility for altering command names with FF4kster, right? Just checking before I make the changes.
Yes, absolutely right. Furthermore, command names will no longer look right in FF4kster, because the program will still start looking where the command names used to begin.
Good call.

That would be cool. If you do, it would have to be something that will work over either Vanilla or Namingway since User Options is already implemented.

Yep. I'll likely make a separate patch and package it into a User Options update, it'll be something that can patch cleanly over any hack that already has UO2.2.

Quote
Also, I rewrote the Battle Command for Call into Summon as per your instructions so this wouldn't this mess with their pointers if we expanded the Job Classes?

The only renaming for Call I posted was for the Non-battle spell list, which would be unaffected by the class name thing. So the only thing you should have to worry about is the stuff about command names mentioned above.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 15, 2015, 10:50:23 am
Some potential graphics for Namingway Edition: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xxEMi9UrI9soRyemDFTIvYWTUcAbxTvCD6VhFy1HlMs/edit
This is for Ninjutsu, Darkside, and the ra, ga and ja things for spells.
Examples:
Fira
Figa
Thun
Boltra or Thunra
Boltga or Thunga
Blizrd using the li tile.
Icera or Blizra
Icega or Blizga
Cura
Curaga
Curaja

February 15, 2015, 02:07:29 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also Milon's counter when you cast Fire spells isn't working. He should say "You'll turn into zombies with this!" and use an attack that inflicts curse on the whole party.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 15, 2015, 02:44:46 pm
Quote
Fira
Figa
Thun
Boltra or Thunra
Boltga or Thunga
Blizrd using the li tile.
Icera or Blizra
Icega or Blizga
Cura
Curaga
Curaja
I made suggestions like that once . . . and was shut down hard.  ;)

February 15, 2015, 02:45:40 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Quote
Also Milon's counter when you cast Fire spells isn't working. He should say "You'll turn into zombies with this!" and use an attack that inflicts curse on the whole party.
That must be from the DS version. They changed the bosses so that classic players wouldn't know how to beat them.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 15, 2015, 05:58:34 pm
Actually it was in the J2e patch but the curse effect didn't work. Yeah, I played J2e's patch. Wasn't that great. Got up to Tower Of Zot before I quit. Also for the patch the line "Well crap, you've proven me wrong..." has a swear, which could not get past NOA censors. Change the line to "My goodness... You've proven me wrong..."

February 15, 2015, 06:03:06 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also I really don't like the Black or White magic icon when talking about spells. Same thing with items. There's also a line that Roddy missed in the Namingway patch when you talk to the Elder after becoming a Paladin where he calls the Devil's Road the Serpent Road.

February 15, 2015, 06:15:49 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also, a good place to put the Porno Magazine would be in Eblan Castle. We all know that Edge loves the ladies. And the Underground Waterway in Baron should be changed to Old Waterway and the Watery Pass in Kaipo should be called Underground Waterway.

February 15, 2015, 06:20:07 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Since Rodimus Primal is a Transfan, that GBC Beast Wars game could be up to his challenge.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 15, 2015, 07:03:54 pm
Some potential graphics for Namingway Edition: [Edited for brevity.]
Yeah, no, sorry, the spells are staying the same because trying to stuff Blizzara into five letters looks awful. Blzra! Yaaaay! No.

Actually it was in the J2e patch but the curse effect didn't work. Yeah, I played J2e's patch. Wasn't that great. Got up to Tower Of Zot before I quit. Also for the patch the line "Well crap, you've proven me wrong..." has a swear, which could not get past NOA censors. Change the line to "My goodness... You've proven me wrong..."

Also I really don't like the Black or White magic icon when talking about spells. Same thing with items. There's also a line that Roddy missed in the Namingway patch when you talk to the Elder after becoming a Paladin where he calls the Devil's Road the Serpent Road.

Also, a good place to put the Porno Magazine would be in Eblan Castle. We all know that Edge loves the ladies. And the Underground Waterway in Baron should be changed to Old Waterway and the Watery Pass in Kaipo should be called Underground Waterway.
I don't consider "crap" to be a swear. I wasn't raised like that. I've been hearing more and more that it's considered one, though. My 6-year-old niece, Chrysologus, and you have all told me it's considered a swear. Funny enough, I've also heard "piss" isn't considered a swear... (I think I've said that before?) For reference, EarthBound got away with saying the word "crap."

I don't know how to restore Milon's AI script. I'll add that to my list of changes made to FFII US, though. If Rodimus stumbles across it, I'm sure he'll add it back in.

No one else has complained about the icons at the front of spells and items in dialogue. I tried to make it consistent with AWJ, SoM2, and Neill's FFIII translation. If I hear about it from anyone else, I'll consider it.

I actually changed the Serpent Road to the Devil's Road; I can change that no problem. Thanks for the report. :)

The names of the Watery Underpass and Ancient Waterway are fine as they are, although I don't object if Rodimus wants to change them.

Remember, we're not translators, just script rewriters. I don't know if Rodimus knows Japanese.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 15, 2015, 08:04:52 pm
Actually it was in the J2e patch but the curse effect didn't work.

Close, but not quite.

What Milon casts is DullSong, which casts Slow on all party members, though it does use Curse's graphic. If that line is accurately translated I feel that they may have had a "Zombie" status effect programmed originally. It's an easy thing to set actually, you just set the character's Creature Byte to 80 and the game will treat that character like a zombie until the end of battle, which is what was done for Combat Boost.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 15, 2015, 08:18:23 pm
I've discovered a problem with the new job title / command name pointers. The in-battle info box still points to the old text when the command is executed. Like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/tFl1uim.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ema4Qj1.png)

Any ideas for a fix?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 15, 2015, 08:28:06 pm
I missed a pointer. I forgot that the game calls those in battle, too.
I'm on a long stretch of work days, so not sure when I'll get to solve this, but I will sometime this week. Promise.
Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 15, 2015, 08:30:45 pm
It's cool, dude. v3.00 will be out eventually, then!

Changes:
- Cid's apprentices now call him Chief, for consistency
- Cry now lowers Magic Defense and not Magic Evasion
- Eight-letter job titles

And that really should be it, barring typo updates or any dialogue changes that are necessary.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 15, 2015, 10:04:35 pm
Unless there is a way to expand the menu to allow longer spell names, the old naming will have to remain. Thunder and Blizzard can in NO way look right, even squished, in 5 tiles.  It's worse than Summon in 4 tiles, which thankfully is fixed.

I can verily say I don't know Japanese and I wasn't even aware of that Beast Wars GBC game. Looks cool when I looked it up, but I don't have any plans for it. I remember the Transmetals game for the N64 though that I used to rent from Blockbuster.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 16, 2015, 11:15:41 am
Well, folks, bad news/good news...

First the bad:
As you know, I tried again to make "Hold B to Dash" work...
I cannot. make. it. work.
It just doesn't ever stop getting out of sync. I have tried making it check at the beginning of the step, I have tried making it check at the end of the step, I have tried to look for other places in the code that are conditional upon being in between steps. I just can't find a place to put my custom code that won't cause the game to get out of sync. I'm sorry. :banghead:

As I mentioned before, I can make it so that holding B is required (instead of a pure toggle), as long as you're ok with Dash only being turned on/off if you are not moving. I can release a patch for that if there is any interest in that. What's nice about that is that it won't make events look weird, because you're presumably always going to be walking when the event starts, so... yeah.

Have you tried making it not check for holding the B button until the character has stepped fully into a tile?

I mean, I'm an amateur so this might be insane, what I'm suggesting.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 16, 2015, 12:36:31 pm
Have you tried making it not check for holding the B button until the character has stepped fully into a tile?

I mean, I'm an amateur so this might be insane, what I'm suggesting.

That's what I meant by looking for code that runs conditionally in between steps. I can't find any that is not also contingent upon not walking at all.

I mean, let's face it - the problem here is that I'm also an amateur. Over the past 2 1/2 years that I've been doing this, I've gotten really good at writing and interpreting SNES code, but prior to that I have zero programming experience, so I really have no clue when it comes to graphics processing, which is probably a very important missing piece to this puzzle.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 16, 2015, 12:56:09 pm
Maybe you might want to look at the code in the PSX version, since that is probably closest to the SNES version in terms of how the game runs. Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 16, 2015, 01:19:07 pm
Well it could be done, with Thun and Bliz using the li tile in Project 2.

February 16, 2015, 01:21:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also, new name for mute using the il tile. Silent.

February 16, 2015, 01:24:06 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And also, EarthBound was made when the ESRB censors took effect and Nintendo started loosening their censors. Also, I don't recall the spell and item icons appearing in the FF6 Woosley and Sky Render translations, FF5's patch, and FF2us.

February 16, 2015, 01:37:01 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Updated some text stuff https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xxEMi9UrI9soRyemDFTIvYWTUcAbxTvCD6VhFy1HlMs
Protect will be called Protes, Twistr is called W.Wind and Reflect is called Rflect
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on February 16, 2015, 09:27:23 pm
And also, EarthBound was made when the ESRB censors took effect and Nintendo started loosening their censors.
The ESRB doesn't censor games.

I'm also among those who don't consider crap a swear.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 17, 2015, 10:58:42 am
Got some stuff for you guys today!

First of all, Hold B to Dash Patch (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzRWRbtm4qwcWHRsdmw2NENoQjA/edit?usp=docslist_api).
This should be applied to a ROM with header that, like Project II, is already patched with User Options 2.2.

This was a little more complicated than I expected it to be, because, the Hold B to Dash function was still active during events, meaning it prevented the event from toggling speed, and continued to allow player-controlled speed. So I had to whip up a little fix for that. Works like a dream now. I'm proud enough of this one that I may splice Dash into my own project now.
Barring anybody actually solving what I could not, I am now officially putting Dash to bed (he said with an air of somewhat desperate hope).

And next up...

Regarding the adjusted command names showing up wrong when used in battle, simple one-byte fix for that.
In addition to the previous steps mentioned, Jump to 14D52 in your hex editor (again, ROM with header), and change that byte from C6 to D4.

That'll do it.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 17, 2015, 12:23:23 pm
I just wanted to warn any XP users that applying the User Options patch to a Japanese copy of FF4 caused my OS to crash. My computer described it as a "serious error," but there was no bluescreen so I don't know what it's whining about

I'm gonna try the patch on v1.1 like I was told to. :)

May even try to make my own version of the script lol

UPDATE: Got it running (pardon the pun :P). This is very very cool. I notice that it can't check for whether I'm holding the button or not as long as the party is in motion, which is slightly different from FF4 Advance/FF4 PSX, but it is very cool.

Kickass work, Chilly!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 17, 2015, 12:45:04 pm
I just wanted to warn any XP users that applying the User Options patch to a Japanese copy of FF4 caused my OS to crash. My computer described it as a "serious error," but there was no bluescreen so I don't know what it's whining about
Wow... That might be something that needs to go in the ReadMe, even if it is not the intended use of the patch...

Quote
I'm gonna try the patch on v1.1 like I was told to. :)

May even try to make my own version of the script lol

UPDATE: Got it running (pardon the pun :P). This is very very cool. I notice that it can't check for whether I'm holding the button or not as long as the party is in motion, which is slightly different from FF4 Advance/FF4 PSX, but it is very cool.

Kickass work, Chilly!
Thanks.
The "no check while in motion" was the best I could do to avoid the out-of-sync issue. I hated it at first, but it's growing on me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 17, 2015, 01:20:17 pm
Alright, thanks a ton chillyfeez! If it was so easy, I wonder why they didn't do it in the first place... :-\ I mean, not only just in FFII US, in the Japanese version as well.

I have one more question before I release v3.00. Cavery210 asked if I could give Cure2 to Rydia before she departs the first time, and I was wondering if you guys thought that would be a good idea. If implemented, Rydia would learn Cure2 at either level 12 or level 14. (For reference, Rosa and Porom learn it at level 13.)

It could be useful in the Mom Bomb fight. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 17, 2015, 01:32:53 pm
Rydia's Will stat is not that great, a Cure 2 from her at that level might only amount to half of a Cure 2 from Rosa at a comparable level.

God I'm a nerd...but it would be more useful.

MomBomb's just not that tough, though.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 17, 2015, 01:50:00 pm
We have a problem.

While going to grab Fusoya to test Regen, Edge got poisoned and I saw this issue arose. The images speak for themselves.

(http://i.imgur.com/rZGGGRN.png)
(First noticed it when Cecil was casting Heal on Edge.)

(http://i.imgur.com/6CovwHn.png)
(This happened upon returning to Cecil's magic menu.)

(http://i.imgur.com/YWwcheL.png)
(Checked Rosa's magic menu to confirm my fears...)

I'm thinking I should just undo it all, but my god, it's gonna be pain.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 17, 2015, 01:54:17 pm
Looks like there's a blank space being added after the Job Description(s) that is overrunning the menu border?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 17, 2015, 01:57:15 pm
The problem is the expanded job titles. None of the systems can handle them without spillover except the save menu and main menu. The "Whom?" menu and the magic menu can't handle it. Probably the item menu too.

Edit - The status menu can handle it. The item menu can't.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 17, 2015, 02:32:58 pm
That is a bummer.
Switching everything back should just be a case of undoing everything in those instructions, but lemme know if you need any help.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 17, 2015, 03:10:20 pm
I think I got it. Alright, well, back to square one. And since the removal of eight-letter jobs makes the rest of the changes not so amazing in comparison, the newest version has been downgraded to v2.08.

I just need more opinions on whether or not Rydia should learn Cure2. I have one "Yes, but it's not that useful on Rydia compared to the dedicated white mages." Anyone else?

Edit 1 - Also, is Yang the High Monk of Fabul, or a High Monk of Fabul? I'm currently under the impression that he's like, the commander of the monks.

Edit 2 -

v2.08 changes so far:
- Cid's apprentices now call him Chief, for consistency
- Cry now lowers Magic Defense and not Magic Evasion
- Yang is now introduced as the high monk of Fabul (And "High Monk Yang joined!")
- (Vanilla only) Squashed another (hopefully the last!) reference to Yang being known as a black belt

May or may not change Rydia learning Cure2 upon her rejoining event to her learning it as a child.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 17, 2015, 03:42:03 pm
If you're doing a lot of menu text changes.  I would highly recommend trying to figure out how to use Atlas and Cartographer.  That way you can just import and export text as needed instead of having to manually shove everything if it comes to that point.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 17, 2015, 04:00:21 pm
Yang is like the grandmaster Monk, ranked pretty much below the King. He was training his Monks when he was introduced. It's probably the reason for SPOILER ALERT










Yang accends the thone at the end of the game. High Monk or just Monk works. Is that Black Belt reference still there in Namingway? I haven't looked, yet. Also, I don't think its necessary to give child Rydia Cure 2 because she also isn't intended to be in the party long before getting aged in the Feymarch. Sure they did in the DS remake, but that's only because they nerfed her anyway and that was to make up for it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 17, 2015, 04:08:40 pm
No, you changed them all. I made sure of that. :) So, the high monk it is. Then, I just want a few more to tell me about Rydia having Cure2 and I'll ship it out.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on February 18, 2015, 12:10:17 am
I don't see any reason to give Rydia Cure 2. Seems like arbitrary tinkering, not consistent with the rest of the hack.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 18, 2015, 10:56:23 am
Does the Gunslinger code still work? And I would like Cure2 to Rydia as it helps restore the dummied content in FF4.

February 18, 2015, 11:03:37 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also an idea, Make the Fire Armor weak against Ice and Ice Armor weak Against Fire. It always made no sense how the Ice Armor was strong against fire.

February 18, 2015, 11:09:47 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And you can make a optional patch to replace the Ancient Sword and the Silver Sword with the Coral Sword and Hog Call from FF4 Easy Type.
Coral Sword's attack is 45 and Accuracy is 49. It's Lightning elemental and strong against Ghosts. It is found in the Old Waterway
Hog Call's attack is 51 and Accuracy is 49. You can find it in Baron Castle in the pot that contains the Elixir. It can turn enemies into pigs. But the Silver Sword is no longer sold in Silvera.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 18, 2015, 11:52:25 am
I'm thinking I'm not gonna give her Cure2, since I got one maybe, one no, and one yes. Not to mention, it would be useless for those of you who already played past that point, and those of you with saves with child Rydia on the team would need to start the game over so her acquisition rates are right.

The Gunslinger code should still work. I'm not changing the Fire and Ice Mails. If you want the Easy Type content, Dragonsbrethren made FFII *is* Easy Type (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/419/), but you won't get my nice new script.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 18, 2015, 03:17:02 pm
Did you fix the Sealed Cave glitch. Basically you can use Warp in the Crystal Room in the Castle of Dwarves and grab the Crystal, skipping the Sealed Cave and its TrapDoors and EvilWall.

February 18, 2015, 03:18:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also it would be cool to do a similar thing to Project II to the Dark Shadows Over Palakia FF2j prototype.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 18, 2015, 03:22:03 pm
Did you fix the Sealed Cave glitch. Basically you can use Warp in the Crystal Room in the Castle of Dwarves and grab the Crystal, skipping the Sealed Cave and its TrapDoors and EvilWall.

February 18, 2015, 03:18:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also it would be cool to do a similar thing to Project II to the Dark Shadows Over Palakia FF2j prototype.
Yes, I did; and I would love to, but it's kind of pointless since Demiforce's translation is pretty accurate and to-the-point. Furthermore, there are no good editors for FFII other than the extremely buggy Jade.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 18, 2015, 03:25:52 pm
SPOONIEST HIJACKS THREAD

I learned how to edit events in ff4kster. :3 I took out the dialogue in the Flashback during the intro. :D

SPOONIEST RETURNS THE THREAT TO VIVIFY93*

*who is sexy
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 18, 2015, 03:30:43 pm
I'd also make the hidden chests visible, move them away from the doors they could block, and replace the worthless items with something good for that dungeon.
The Poison Claws in the Tower of Bab-il: change to a CatClaw
The Darkness Sword in the Sealed Cave: Change into a Medusa Sword.
The Ghost and RedGiant monster in a box in Sealed Cave and Lunar's Lair can stay. The Lunar's Lair one can be moved to Cave Bahamut.
The 280 GP chest also in Lunar's Lair can be changed to a 2080 GP chest.
The Rod found in Lunar Subterrane can be changed to a Charm Rod.
The 150 GP in the Lunar Subterrane can be changed to 1500 GP.

February 18, 2015, 03:33:43 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well I'd like to see a rewritten script for FF2j with the DSOP names and with the same treatment as Project II. Also the same Project II treatment could be used for the PS1 version of FF5! Maybe Project V could be in the future... But for that we'd need a FF2kster and a FF5PS1kster...

February 18, 2015, 03:35:21 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
And a new coat of paint for FF7!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 18, 2015, 03:46:03 pm
I would die to fix up FFVII PSone. That's been on my dream list since forever. I think the only thing I wouldn't change is "This guy are sick." The rest can be tidied up nicely.

I don't know about changing hidden chests. To be honest, I forget about them most of the time... And I'm pretty sure they were removed in all FFIV ports, except the PSone port.

I learned how to edit events in ff4kster. :3 I took out the dialogue in the Flashback during the intro. :D
Rodimus Primal may be interested in this. :)

v2.08 has been submitted. I have a bit of an announcement to make.

Rodimus Primal and I have agreed that I've been to restricting on changes he'd like to make to Namingway Edition, and furthermore, I never wanted Namingway to exist in the first place. So, we're splitting them off into two separate projects come v2.08. He has yet to decide on a name and release date for this new project, but he will be in charge of it without my yessing or vetoing any of his changes.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 18, 2015, 04:52:50 pm
I would die to fix up FFVII PSone. That's been on my dream list since forever. I think the only thing I wouldn't change is "This guy are sick." The rest can be tidied up nicely.

I tried loading it up in a hex editor. It took forever, but hex editing ff7 should be possible. A slow and ponderous job, surely, but possible.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 18, 2015, 05:28:54 pm
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IkAFhbm8Ph-rQKD7DyjZl1OvfOZ2wG3KSctOoNa--xs/edit?usp=sharing
Here's a script I made if anyone wants to vivify FF2: Dark Shadows Over Palakia. It only goes up to Altair, however. Some suggested spell name changes are included.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 18, 2015, 05:33:12 pm
Quote
Project II-ify

Should really be "Vivify" :D

Viv is one of the nicest people I've met on the Internet yall. Project II's popularity is well deserved.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 18, 2015, 05:53:48 pm
Project II is an exceptional accomplishment for vivify, and the work put into it shows. It's popularity is indeed well deserved. I hope to incorporate further changes into my own project.

As for Final Fantasy II (J), I attempted to update the Neo Demiforce translation with an updated script and names, but I ran into a major issue with Jade screwing up the pointers on me. I did a LOT of work into it before taking a step back to work on Namingway Edition. I'd still like to go back and work on that, only using Jade as a reference tool.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 18, 2015, 07:37:06 pm
Can you name the Soldiers on the Red Wings in the beginning of the game Biggs and Wedge since they are named that in a flashback in after years. And for the other soldiers, their names will also be Star Wars references.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 18, 2015, 11:53:51 pm
I'll think about it. I could change it so only Biggs and Wedge are talking. Maybe take a cue from Chrono Trigger and make the man at the helm Piet. I'd need to closely reexamine the whole intro, though. And then figure out which two soldiers to make into Biggs and Wedge in Baron Castle...

It is a very good suggestion though! I never played The After Years and quite frankly have no desire to, despite all my shoehorning in the names used in TAY. :P So I have no idea what new names are in, aside from Joanna, Theodor, Cecilia, and Leonora.

Thank you Rodimus and Spooniest. Y'all make me blush! :laugh:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 19, 2015, 05:46:55 am
Maybe one of the soldiers could be called Porkins or Jansom.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 19, 2015, 01:52:43 pm
That could work too. Thanks, Cavery210. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 19, 2015, 04:36:00 pm
Hey, Vivify93.
So, I don't know if you're going to be happy or exhausted to hear this, but I figured out how to widen all of the necessary menu windows enough to accommodate 8 letter class names.

The way I see it, you need to widen:
-Item Target window (When choosing on whom to use an item)
-Magic Target window
-Caster's Stats window (when choosing a spell to use)

So, to do so, you're going to increase the value of each of the following by 1 (so if it normally reads "0E" you would change it to "0F")
(as usual, ROM with header)
Item Target Window: 00DB50
Magic Target Window: 00DB81
Caster's Stats Window (oddly enough, the game uses five values, depending on which slot the caster is in, so increase all of them by 1):
00DB69
00DB6D
00DB71
00DB75
00DB79

Also of interest, when the status screen is open, the 8-letter class name will run right into "Lv." representing the character's level. The easy fix for that is to change it to say "L.99" instead of "Lv.99" The message will still come across clearly, and it allows an extra space between class name and level.
To do that, jump to 00DC2A and change it from "4D 71" to "FF 4D"

That should seal up all of the holes left in making class names 8 letters.
Obviously all of the previous instructions must be followed as well.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: justin3009 on February 19, 2015, 04:49:38 pm
If you guys want to expand item names, you'd have to shuffle the items page to be in one column.

Spells I'd say the same thing but two columns.. except it doesn't seem that the magic menu supports scrolling so that's kind of a problem.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 19, 2015, 04:54:37 pm
If you guys want to expand item names, you'd have to shuffle the items page to be in one column.

Spells I'd say the same thing but two columns.. except it doesn't seem that the magic menu supports scrolling so that's kind of a problem.

Now that I really look at the amount of space the game supplies for spells, there is more than enough on a visual basis for 8 character spell names... Outside of battle. Inside of battle the spell screens are smaller. Even 7 is pushing the limit as far as those are concerned.

Two columns is exactly what FFVI did and I never liked that, it felt so hackish...  Square didn't really get this right for the US until FFVIII since even VII was still struggling with space to fill in spells. I guess there would be no other way around it. Also FFIV does support menu scrolling... inside of battle. Haha! So many random caveats...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 19, 2015, 05:44:00 pm
Two columns is exactly what FFVI did and I never liked that, it felt so hackish...  Square didn't really get this right for the US until FFVIII since even VII was still struggling with space to fill in spells. I guess there would be no other way around it. Also FFIV does support menu scrolling... inside of battle. Haha! So many random caveats...

I thought it was pretty cool. Notice that RPGONE's patch and FF5 PS1 did the same thing.

February 19, 2015, 05:47:20 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Yes, I did; and I would love to, but it's kind of pointless since Demiforce's translation is pretty accurate and to-the-point. Furthermore, there are no good editors for FFII other than the extremely buggy Jade.

Yeah well, Neo Demiforce has some of the same problems as J2e's FF4 patch. And someone can always make a new FFII editor.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 19, 2015, 05:51:37 pm
The only reference in FFII I can recall is a callback to FFI...? I mean, he crunched the script down and neutered Guy's speech impediment, but other than that it strikes me as fairly accurate. Keep in mind, J2e's FFIV problem is that they made garbage up out of thin air, shoved in blatant, unhidden references, and then shit FFII US' script into the gaps they couldn't fill in. Demi's FFII didn't have a translation to "steal" off of, since Shadow of Palakia hadn't been dumped yet. I will concede that he may've made things up though.

Hey, Vivify93.
So, I don't know if you're going to be happy or exhausted to hear this, but I figured out how to widen all of the necessary menu windows enough to accommodate 8 letter class names.
Definitely exhausted. I had hoped there'd be a way to avoid resizing menus. As it stands, I really only think Cecil's name needs anything, and I'm thinking of solving it by making a squish-tile set so I can write out D.Knight as opposed to DKnight.

Thanks so much for letting me know, though. :)

Edit 1 - v2.08 is up, cementing the separation of Project II: Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy IV: Namingway Edition.

Edit 2 - It's come to my attention that there are still traces of Namingway Edition and v3.00 in the readme, but I assure you those are just anomalies in the text. My excuse is that this release was somewhat rushed.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 21, 2015, 08:00:54 am
The Dark Knight who left the Black Sword in Fabul was named Leon. Can you add that in Project II? This info comes from the FF4 Settei Shiryou Hen. Also the Octomamm is a mutant, not a monster. Kain's father was assassinated, Rosa's dad was a Dragoon, the Monks of Fabul train at Mt. Hobs once per month, Cid has let Cecil ride prototype airships since he was a boy, Edge's fiery temper comes from King Eblan pampering him, Tellah left Mysidia due to him unleashing a powerful spell (probably Nuke, White or Meteo) that killed many mages, Titan is a decedent of the Titans in Greek Mythology, Palom and Porom's parents made them study under the Elder due to their powerful magic,
Also a good censored name for monk is Master. FF1 used that as the name for the class changed Black Belt. Also Tellah's class is supposed to be Wise Man.
http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ff4comp.htm link to translation of book.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 21, 2015, 08:04:18 am
The Dark Knight who left the Black Sword in Fabul was named Leon. Can you add that in Project II? This info comes from the FF4 Settei Shiryou Hen. Also the Octomamm is a mutant, not a monster. Kain's father was assassinated, Rosa's dad was a Dragoon, the Monks of Fabul train at Mt. Hobs once per month, Cid has let Cecil ride prototype airships since he was a boy, Edge's fiery temper comes from King Eblan pampering him, Tellah left Mysidia due to him unleashing a powerful spell (probably Nuke, White or Meteo) that killed many mages, Titan is a decedent of the Titans in Greek Mythology, Palom and Porom's parents made them study under the Elder due to their powerful magic,
Also a good censored name for monk is Master. FF1 used that as the name for the class changed Black Belt. Also Tellah's class is supposed to be Wise Man.
http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ff4comp.htm link to translation of book.

There is not enough room in the ROM.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Special on February 21, 2015, 08:48:05 am
Just a heads up, the readme @ http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/ says v3.0 under Changelog, but patch is v2.08.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 21, 2015, 11:29:23 am
Rosa's dad was a Dragoon,
This one actually was added in. Take Rosa to her mother Joanna after the Tower of Zot and before the Underworld.

The rest are basically extra fluff that don't need to go in. I could try to reword one of Tellah's lines to add in that the Octomamm is a mutant, but the rest are pretty much just extra fluff. I'd like to add some of these things in, but there's just not enough space.

Just a heads up, the readme @ http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/ says v3.0 under Changelog, but patch is v2.08.
Yes sir, and I made note of this already. :)

Edit 2 - It's come to my attention that there are still traces of Namingway Edition and v3.00 in the readme, but I assure you those are just anomalies in the text. My excuse is that this release was somewhat rushed.

I think I might resubmit it, since v2.08 might be the last update for a few months.

Edit - I resubmitted v2.08 for the readme corrections. The Status Glossary of the supplements has also received a very minor update, swapping a fraction for a percentage in one instance, and giving a number to how many HP you lose per step while under poison. :) That's about it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 21, 2015, 06:25:01 pm
Also a great game that needs Vivication is Final Fantasy Adventure for the Game Boy. Has a lot of the same problems FF2us had.
Please find other old games that need the Project II treatment!  FF6, Castlevania 2 or Secret of Mana don't count since those games have a Project II like patches.
For example: Zelda II, Pokemon Red And Blue (text felt a bit dry), Metal Gear NES, Zelda I, Faxanadu, Ninja Gaiden, Zero Wing, River City Ransom, Street Fighter II, any SNK game, Contra III, Goonies II, Secret of the Stars, any Harvest Moon game, FF Tactics and more...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 21, 2015, 07:07:00 pm
Let's not overload Vivify, now. Out of that list the only one of note is Final Fantasy Adventure, I could totally be down with a Vivification of that, however I'm not too knowledgeable about GB hacking and how different it is from SNES hacking. Everything else is just kinda eh, most of them don't really have enough text to warrant a new patch or don't have any good tools to hack them AFAIK.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 21, 2015, 09:16:43 pm
And he has not played my version of Final Fantasy 6.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 21, 2015, 09:45:26 pm
Secret of the Stars is a Terrible game! And this is coming from someone who not only played through the entire thing, but also watched another do so. Don't get me wrong, it has a really neat premise (two parties, a shadow party following after the main heroes), but that premise is basically thrown aside as soon as the game really starts, and the grinding Oy the grinding!

Your requests are a bit strange all in all though.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 21, 2015, 10:27:20 pm
FF Tactics has a patch like this that inserts War of the Lions' translation. You can probably find it on FF Hacktics. Zelda 1 was done on GBA as an official release. Zero Wing has had a patch for some time now, I think it's on Zophar?

I'm saying no to the rest of those since I have never played and never want to play them. (Including Pokemon. I never got the appeal of Pokemon.) I did touch FF Adventure for a tiny playthrough though, and my lord, the AI is stupid in that game. It was terrible. I never want to play it again.

Edit - v2.08's correction has been approved. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 21, 2015, 11:03:51 pm
I play FF Adventure sometimes when I get really bored, it has a charm to it. Never got very far though. Tiny bit off-topic here, but there was a remake of Final Fantasy Adventure on the GBA called Sword of Mana, I'd recommend looking it up. It's not just a remake though, it almost feels like a whole new game but with tiny references here and there.

If I had to offer a suggestion for a game that needs a Vivification, I would personally ask for Lufia. It's fine for the most part, but there's just a lot of little detail things that could use fixing, for example the spell names. There is a de-censor patch, but I'm not sure what to make of it. It sounds like it fixes some things but makes others worse.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 22, 2015, 12:46:10 am
I did one for Lufia 1, actually, but it uses D-boy's hack as a base since he did the booze uncensoring and changed one of Gades' lines to make more sense. I think I tried to contact him but to no avail
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on February 22, 2015, 03:47:45 pm
Did you know that the Exit can be used in towns? I found this out by experimenting with the Gunslinger code.

February 22, 2015, 06:19:19 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also I'd like an optional patch with Dispel instead of Curse. I'd make it buffed so Dispel's not Wall-able so that situations where you'd wanna use it, (Baigan, Sandy, CPU, EvilMask, Wyvern, Asura) would make them a lot easier.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 22, 2015, 07:26:07 pm
Did you know that the Exit can be used in towns? I found this out by experimenting with the Gunslinger code.

February 22, 2015, 06:19:19 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also I'd like an optional patch with Dispel instead of Curse. I'd make it buffed so Dispel's not Wall-able so that situations where you'd wanna use it, (Baigan, Sandy, CPU, EvilMask, Wyvern, Asura) would make them a lot easier.

Dispel at its core is a glitched routine and can softlock the game when Dispel is used on a Stopped character, because the game removes the Timer from Stop, but doesn't remove the Stop status, causing issues. This is fixed by using Black Hole's routine though.

Also not sure how it helps with Asura... since Protect and Shell aren't statuses that are removed by Dispel in the first place. They're not statuses at all in fact.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 03, 2015, 03:47:08 pm
@Chillyfeez

Hey, have you thought about making a routine to check for whether the direction pad is being held, whether or not the character is in motion, when calculation the condition of 2x walking speed?

Because the problem seems to be that the game doesn't know when you've let go of the B button when you are still pressing a direction. Let go of the direction pad, and the option of holding or releasing the B button is offered.

Can it be changed to check for both at the same time? Like, if you release B while in motion, your speed should slow on the next step you take.

This would bring it in line with FF Chronicles and FFIV Advance in terms of functionality, I think.

I know. It sounds complicated to me too.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 03, 2015, 04:53:54 pm
I'd love to be able to do that, but changing speeds while in motion seems to be what causes the game to get out of sync. The original User Options aimed to do just that, but I could never get it to work right.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 03, 2015, 09:27:17 pm
While the thread is bumped up here, does anyone know how I'd go about making the item icons not go away in battle messages? It looks awkward when you steal from an enemy and it says, "Stole Silver." like Silver is the shield's full name. I understand that I will have to expand the small eight-tile info box to nine tiles to fit this, but I think it'll be worth it for a little extra polish.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 03, 2015, 09:39:25 pm
I'd love to be able to do that, but changing speeds while in motion seems to be what causes the game to get out of sync. The original User Options aimed to do just that, but I could never get it to work right.

I guess the quickest solution at this point is to decompile FF4advance and see how they did it...

But i suppose id have to have knowledge of GBA assembly for that.

Bregalad has worked with GBA, he might know a thing or two.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 05, 2015, 09:37:48 am
Are you going to put the break damage limit hack chillyfeez made in Project II? http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2343/
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 05, 2015, 05:33:05 pm
If I had to take a guess, I'd say the break damage limit patch defies the primary objective of Project II.
But if you are interested in seeing the results, they should be compatible. Just apply Project II to a clean ROM, then apply Break Damage Limit after that.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: KingMike on March 05, 2015, 09:48:24 pm
If I had to offer a suggestion for a game that needs a Vivification, I would personally ask for Lufia. It's fine for the most part, but there's just a lot of little detail things that could use fixing, for example the spell names. There is a de-censor patch, but I'm not sure what to make of it. It sounds like it fixes some things but makes others worse.
I remember D made a patch for Lufia's spell names at some point.
Saying something like "now enjoy your nonsense spell names, like Phantasy Star" (I don't remember which PS exactly) :D
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 05, 2015, 10:43:50 pm
Yeah, no, Cavery210, people can combine them if they want. I'd rather it have been a more round number, like 16,000 for a maximum damage, anyway. Stuff like going for the max of 65,535 and stuff just looks hacky to me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 06, 2015, 11:25:51 am
I remember D made a patch for Lufia's spell names at some point.
Saying something like "now enjoy your nonsense spell names, like Phantasy Star" (I don't remember which PS exactly) :D
That is the patch that I mention in my post that I'm not sure whether or not to use.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on March 08, 2015, 02:36:49 pm
... I love this hack lol. Been playing through it a little when I need a break from testing my project. I'm about to get Tellah at the Watery Pass.  The script rewrite is definately a major improvement over the original, which feels like reading a robot talking in old English in comparison.


It's also proving to be an extremely vital resource to me beyond being just a fun game to play.  Having two FF4ksters running with Project II acting as a dictionary to what the dummied items are is saving me the large chuck of time, allowing me to focus my time on other areas.

Would you happen to know how I could go about getting ahold of Paladin? I noticed you credited him for the epic title screen edit, and I'd like ask him if I could use his "IV" as well.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 08, 2015, 04:37:20 pm
Thanks for the kudos, Bahamut ZERO! :) I wish you luck in your FFIV hacking. I will most certainly get you in touch with Paladin. I have his email address, I'll PM you it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on March 08, 2015, 04:41:31 pm
That is the patch that I mention in my post that I'm not sure whether or not to use.

I have to agree. While I'd like the uncensored stuff, I'm staring at the spells list going "What the hell?"

I'd definitely like this re-examined.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 08, 2015, 04:55:58 pm
Like I said, I have a patch ready to go, but I can't find D to save my life. KingMike directed me to where he might be found, but I couldn't find a trace of him. All I need is his permission to use his patch as a base...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2015, 09:14:11 am
...You know what?

I want to do a write up of FF4 that mimics the DS script a lil more closely than yours, but I honestly don't think I can top what you've done Viv.

I'm hurtin'. You've really put some heart into this thing. I'm gonna adopt your version of FF4 as my official favorite.

Thanks a mil for this!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 09, 2015, 10:21:22 am
Aw, thanks dude. I wouldn't care if you did a DS-inspired version, though. <.< More variety is great!

Edit - While I'm here... If you guys can, try to play Project II on a CRT TV! It's divine. Takes me back to when I first played the PSone port in 2002.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 09, 2015, 06:29:01 pm
Speaking of scripts, I'd like to see a addendum to J2e's FF4 patch that fixes a lot of its mistakes and faults. Some of the names will be changed back to the SNES version if the SNES translation is superior.

Names to change:
Golbeze - Golbeza
Calcobrena - Calcabrina
Jiott - Giotto
Corillo - Corio
Wizard - Mage
Kukuru - Kukul
Tower of Zott - Tower of Zot
Phantom Beast - Esper
Phantom World - Feymarch
Gravity - Magnetism
Tomera - Tomra
Toroia - Troia
Agalt - Agart
Cafe - Pub
FuSoYa - Fusuya
Strengthen - Bluff
Fire 2 and Fire 3 - Fira and Figa
Ice 2 and Ice 3 - Blizzara and Blizzaga
Bolt 2 and Bolt 3 - Thundara and Thundaga
Cure, Cure 2, Cure 3 and Cure 4 - Care, Carara, Carada and Caraga
Life and Life 2 - Raise and Arise
Osmose - Aspir
Piggy - Porky
Sleep - Sleepel or Sleeper
Sight - Sightro (It's there in FF4j)
Dejon - Dezone
Teleport - Telepo
Monster Picturebook - Bestiary
LuckyMallet - MidgeMallet
TowerKey - Lugeie Key or Lugeie
FryingPan - LoveFryPan
Playboy - Erotic Mag
Echoer - Echo Weed
Kuar - Coeurl
Creesalis - Crysalis
Heiropatra - Elapatra
Sahagin - Sahuagin
Domovy - Domovoi
Satanite - Sataknight
Roc - Rukh
IceWarrior - Ghost Kn.
Prankster - Practi
HandLegger - Hundlegs
Lacy - Leshy
Rilmarder -Lil Murderer
Marionette - Puppeteer
Procaryote - Prokaryote
Pudding - Flan
Takahasi - Takahashi
Centipede - Tunneler
Balnaba - Barnaba
Dog, Rag and Mag - Cindy, Mindy and Sandy
4 Emperors - Elite Four (Four Heavenly Kings is the Japanese name of the Elite Four from Pokemon)
Tidarthian - Ogopogo
Fire Technique, Bolt Technique and Water Technique - Unleashed Fire, Swift Lightning and Unleashed Water
Lines to change:

“I think William Shatner is more convincing than you." -  "If you’re going to put on an act, you really should do a better job of it."

"He was that human with the overdeveloped sense of honor. He was an amusing one… He ‘would never turn over the country to such a fiend,’ and so on and so forth…" - "I believe he was the one who said he refused to give the kingdom to me, among other such things."

It’s a miracle that a carrion-eating animated corpse like him was one of us four. - After all, he was so weak that it was a mystery how he managed to be one of the Elite Four.

I'm gonna get medieval on your ass! - I'm gonna kick your butt!

I'm a superstar! - Heh! You're both geezers!

So you really are worried about your little whore, aren’t you? - Heh. So you ARE worried?

You son of a bitch! - Why you...

I’m tired of sitting around and getting drunk! I wanna fight! - (remove)

I see…but did Fate intend for them to sacrifice themselves…? - I see… So those two were able to surpass me in the end…

You must need a lot of food to fill your huge stomachs!  - Being as big as you are, food costs must be tough.

I’ve come a long way from the Mythril Mountain to the north. - The mithril mountain is far to the north.

All of the lines of the Mythril Boys - Baby! Yeah! We're gonna show you a cool dance! C'mon brothers! We're the Mithril Brothers! Let's dance!

Gotta get me a shotgun to keep all them tiny boys offa her. - (removed)

I can’t live without the sun. - We can't live without the sun.

I saw some red ships going into the crater to the north! - The other day I saw something red being swallowed up into a mountain crater to the north!

Hey, I’ll show you a mysterious dance! - Shall I show you a mysterious dance? It came from the Hidden Land

We mine gems from the cave in the north. However, we can’t wear anything metal. It gets really heavy. - When I took a metal safe into the northeastern cave to collect some gems, it got stuck and I couldn't budge it.

Hey, this one’s got firm hands! - (removed)

The atmosphere here is great! Not only that, but a lot of guys drop by, so our evenings are fun… if you know what I mean! - The air and the food here are delicious, AND things are so nice and laid-back with so many women here!   

Hello! What’s your pleasure? - Oh, young man. Please give us your repeat patronage!

You seem to want to spend some quality time with an older, more mature woman. - Allow ME to give you folks company.

Give me a guy with no chest hair next time. - Next time I want furs.

I’ll tell you who your daddy is! - I'll buy you whatever you like!

Damn that old bastard! - Damn that old geezer!

If you enjoy the show, please remember to be generous with the tips. - (Removed)

Damn, I wish I was as young as you… - Coming here in the middle of the day… You certainly love this too!

Kya! What, didn’t you get enough of us during the show? - Eek! (removed)

Kyun Kyun! - Kweh! Kweh!

Yes, my name is Jeremiah. How did you know? and I love being green - Croak...

I love being a frog. Plenty of kisses from fair maidens… - It's easy being a frog...

And you expect to get in? - You guys aren't greedy.

While wandering as a bard, I learned songs that warded off evil fairies and spirits. - replace fairies with elves.

Cain: Where’s the Crystal of Earth?
Cain: Follow my airship. - add
Cecil: It's right here! Where's Rosa?
Cain: Heh! Don't be hasty!

Well, well, well… you’ve got the crystal… -  I am pleased that you’ve upheld our agreement…

As thanks for saving me an invasion, - If you can make it this far,

Of course being the bad guy that I am, I can’t guarantee that your precious Rosa will live… -  I cannot guarantee your dear Rosa will remain alive, unless you come quickly…


Do you think I’d harm my bargaining chip?  -  Of course. She is unharmed.   

Kain…do you know any Rosa..? - What Rosa are you talking about?

But I have some with you! For Anna!!! - Even if you don’t, I have business with you! Now you will know Anna’s pain!

Tellah: My life… for power… - I’m going to convert all of my life into MP…

So, you must be pleased with yourselves. You’ve rescued the girl, saved the Dragon Knight… Still you lost the old man and Lord Golbeze left with merely a scratch. And then there’s me… - To think that you could harm Master Golbeza… It seems he underestimated you all!

After what we gave you? Why? We’re both creatures of the sky! - Despite the strength you possess, too!

Barbariccia, I did not betray anything, except my honor! - Call it coming to my senses rather than betrayal, Barbariccia!

New Line: Barbariccia: Do not call my name with such familiarity!

To think I prevented Lord Golbeze from killing you, because of a weak human emotion… - We should have eliminated both you AND Rosa had we known this might happen.

The target is blocked by the wind! Jump in order to attack! - We can't see her with that wind! Our only option is to jump!

crystals on the front side of the Earth and crystals on the reverse -  The four crystals of this world are the “obverse side” crystals, so to speak….

Hey karate kid! Before we do any ass kicking, shouldn't we get back those crystals? - Hey there! Before we fight, shouldn't we get those crystals back?

I can see why you’re Cecil’s friend. Both of you were Baron’s puppets. - Man! I can’t believe you just let lousy ol’ Baron use you like that!

Scarmiglione: You defeated me…twice! The darkness…I’m falling…into eternal darkness…  - Curse you… How could I be defeated by the likes of you…?!   

Hmph! This is why adults are such a pain in the ass! - Ugh. Grownups can be such a pain in the neck.

It's not me dammit! - I told you already, it's not me!

Ah, death... What strength I find in it! Come join me... - Thank you for killing me. In death, the power of Scarmiglione of Earth is even more terrifying… Die as you slowly savor it!

I will drag your souls to an abyss of peril! - I cannot let those who’ve seen my true form live. I’m going to knock you off the cliff!

Grand Master that he is. -  You truly are impressive, Master Tella.

You're that bard! You son of a bitch! Anna's dead because of you! - You're that bard! Because of you Anna's...

Hot DAMN! - My goodness!

Valid ID required - (removed)

Once you beat Final Fantasy, try Seiken Detsunu 3 - Once you beat FF4, try FF Adventure!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on March 09, 2015, 07:10:19 pm
You want to direct all that to the Namingway Edition, I'd think.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 09, 2015, 07:51:00 pm
No, these are for a addenium for J2e's patch.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 09, 2015, 08:15:42 pm
OK, see, though, Cavery210--the whole point of Project II is to pretend that J2e's translation didn't exist, unless you're really hard-up for the original maps. There's the PSone version, the GBA port, and the PSP collection if you really need FFIV with the original difficulty and maps.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2015, 09:57:43 pm
ff4kster does not work with ff4j, at all.

You'll have to hex edit the J2e version, which I have, along with Joel Smith's help.

I just discovered a typo in the readme to this. (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/951/)

It says to use ff3 us v1.0 when obviously it should be applied to the J2e Translation.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 10, 2015, 01:48:10 pm
Since Spooniest can hack J2e's patch, maybe Project II can have a version for J2e's patch with my suggestions.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on March 10, 2015, 08:50:55 pm
Hey vivify93, after a LONG hiatus, I finally have time to resume my play-through of your awesome hack. Since resuming, I have progressed from first stepping foot on the Moon, to defeating the Giant of Babil, and regaining Kain.

I'm experiencing 2 minor bugs. I should preface this by saying that I went from previously playing through v 2.4, to a now updated v2.8 by patching a clean ROM. This is being played on a SD2SNES flashcart on my SNES (hooked up to a 36' Sony Trinitron CRT, vivify93!). Firstly, there is a text error in my item list for the "Silk Web". There is a black box (I assume filling the space of one character) between the word "Silk" and "Web". There is also what looks like the dot of a lower case i floating above the letter "e" in "Web". These glitches persist as I move the item around the item list.

Secondly, I'm experiencing an oddity since I have reacquired Kain for the final time after defeating the Giant of Babil. For some reason, the character in the second slot in the party line-up is now the lead character on the overworld. I have Cecil at the top of the list and in the front rank, followed by Rosa second in the back, Kain third front, Rydia fourth back row, and Edge fifth front. No matter how I switch them around, the second character in the lineup is always the sprite represented in the overworld. Am I missing something here, or is this a bug?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 10, 2015, 09:11:21 pm
Since Spooniest can hack J2e's patch, maybe Project II can have a version for J2e's patch with my suggestions.

Dude, you are asking for a metric crapton of work to be done, and for what? So you personally can have your personal perfect version of ff4?

I'm not interested in investing the time it would take away from my career just for that...I'm sorry.

Why don't you get a copy of WindHex and go at it? I have a table file for the game that I'll share w you. PM me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 10, 2015, 09:18:13 pm
Secondly, I'm experiencing an oddity since I have reacquired Kain for the final time after defeating the Giant of Babil. For some reason, the character in the second slot in the party line-up is now the lead character on the overworld. I have Cecil at the top of the list and in the front rank, followed by Rosa second in the back, Kain third front, Rydia fourth back row, and Edge fifth front. No matter how I switch them around, the second character in the lineup is always the sprite represented in the overworld. Am I missing something here, or is this a bug?
That's not a bug. I believe pressing R toggles through the overworld sprite. Or maybe it's the Y Button, I honestly don't remember. Just try hitting some buttons on the overworld, one of them will work.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 10, 2015, 09:49:40 pm
Hey, welcome back, The_Atomik_Punk!. :) I just fixed the Silk Web issue. I thought I had caught all of them, but nope, Silk Web made it through somehow...

And yes, you need to press the R Button to cycle through teammates to get back to who you want to represent your team as you walk around.

Edit 1 - v2.09 changes thus far:
- Enemies who were changed to Leshy, Marilith, and Bavarois in v2.08 were reverted to their FFII US original names: Weeper, Screamer, and Slime.
- King Fabul is now said to have been the high monk back in the day.
- Fixed the Silk Web name bug.
- Changed the Uncurse Potion to Cross. I know, another religious reference where it doesn't belong... (Bringing FFIV up to a hefty three religious references! Nintendo of America wouldn't have let it pass by in 1991 with that, but eh, whatcha gonna do. I never liked the Uncurse Potion's name, and there are no good alternatives for Pray and GodsFury's names.)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 10, 2015, 10:20:59 pm
Also, The_Atomik_Punk!, not that it matters a whole heck of a lot, but the true lead character is the one in the middle.
Team priority goes: Center, Top, Bottom, 2nd Row Top, 2nd Row Bottom.
The only time you'll really ever notice this is when you get a Preemptive Strike on the enemy. That will be the order the party's turns occur when they all are ready at the exact same time.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on March 11, 2015, 12:12:19 pm
Thanks for the insight all of you; I must have hit R by accident when trying to toggle the run feature with L, and changed the lead sprite ::)

Good looking out, chillyfeez, I'll reorder my party with the information that you provided regarding turn priority when getting a preemptive strike.

*EDIT* So after a marathon session, I blitzed through the final section of the game... and was victorious! :thumbsup:

I got off to a really bad start against Zeromus though, as I opened with Rosa casting Pearl (BIG mistake!), which led to a losing battle trying to keep everyone alive. It got really dicey, to the point where I had just Cecil alive, and at REALLY low health. After battling back, reviving everyone and getting them up to full health, it was a cinch. Is this the beefed-up Japanese Zeromus, or the easier US version?

Two disconcerting things happened during that battle (apart from being at death's door on the brink of defeat); I had Edge open by throwing the Cleaver... and it did nothing!?! Secondly, I had Edge try to steal the dark matter from Zeromus, which someone advised me to do in order to reduce Zeromus's Big Bang attack power... and it failed 5 times before I gave up and moved on to have him throw.

I have one final piece of user feedback vivify93; I feel that the line by Zeromus " ...I am animosity!" really lacks weight, and is somewhat awkward in execution. The word "animosity" may very well be the literal translation for all I know, but for me, that line does not encompass the narrative momentum that I see the character of Zeromus expressing at this point. I see this line as the declaration by Zeromus that he is, in essence, the eternal, all-encompassing personification of evil in the Universe.

Here is my proposed alternative: "...I am the Darkness behind the Stars!"

That line (originally from the film Event Horizon) has always been one of the most unsettling that I have heard, and would in my opinion perfectly fit with the tone and context of this scene in question.

In addition, I must echo what I'm sure others have said- FuSoYa's final line of "live long and prosper!" was for me really painful; it completely detracted from the immersion of the moment, and was ultimately distracting.

Well, that's all I can think of in terms of user feedback, let me just close by saying THANK YOU vivify93 for your passionate work; I'm glad I had the opportunity to play through such a quality hack- you're truly a credit to the community!  :beer:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 12, 2015, 09:56:42 am
I can remove the fandom-I'm-not-even-into reference, (This would probably also entail me removing the following lines. Golbez: Why so serious, Kain?; Lugae: This isn't even my final form!) but in no way am I going to insert another movie reference while inserting another.

Tentative replacements:

(v2.08 > v2.10)

Golbez: Why so serious, Kain? > Golbez: You forget yourself, Kain.

Lugae: This isn't even my final form! Lugae: I'll best you yet, you curs!

Fusoya: We must go now. Live long and prosper. > Fusoya: We must go now. May your lives be long and healthy.

Mini Person: Hoity toity! They might be giants! > Hoity toity! Are you guys giants?!

Need a better replacement for "We are animosity!" than a movie reference, though. Sorry. Not taking out references / memes and inserting new ones.

Can anyone else remember any references or memes I might've inserted? I know there's a They Might Be Giants reference in Silvera, ("Hoity toity! They might be giants!") but I can't remember any others. I tried to be natural about it.

Edit - Added in all the references and their replacements.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on March 12, 2015, 10:34:08 am
Thanks for the insight all of you; I must have hit R by accident when trying to toggle the run feature with L, and changed the lead sprite ::)

Good looking out, chillyfeez, I'll reorder my party with the information that you provided regarding turn priority when getting a preemptive strike.

*EDIT* So after a marathon session, I blitzed through the final section of the game... and was victorious! :thumbsup:

I got off to a really bad start against Zeromus though, as I opened with Rosa casting Pearl (BIG mistake!), which led to a losing battle trying to keep everyone alive. It got really dicey, to the point where I had just Cecil alive, and at REALLY low health. After battling back, reviving everyone and getting them up to full health, it was a cinch. Is this the beefed-up Japanese Zeromus, or the easier US version?

Two disconcerting things happened during that battle (apart from being at death's door on the brink of defeat); I had Edge open by throwing the Cleaver... and it did nothing!?! Secondly, I had Edge try to steal the dark matter from Zeromus, which someone advised me to do in order to reduce Zeromus's Big Bang attack power... and it failed 5 times before I gave up and moved on to have him throw.

I have one final piece of user feedback vivify93; I feel that the line by Zeromus " ...I am animosity!" really lacks weight, and is somewhat awkward in execution. The word "animosity" may very well be the literal translation for all I know, but for me, that line does not encompass the narrative momentum that I see the character of Zeromus expressing at this point. I see this line as the declaration by Zeromus that he is, in essence, the eternal, all-encompassing personification of evil in the Universe.

Here is my proposed alternative: "...I am the Darkness behind the Stars!"

That line (originally from the film Event Horizon) has always been one of the most unsettling that I have heard, and would in my opinion perfectly fit with the tone and context of this scene in question.

In addition, I must echo what I'm sure others have said- FuSoYa's final line of "live long and prosper!" was for me really painful; it completely detracted from the immersion of the moment, and was ultimately distracting.

Well, that's all I can think of in terms of user feedback, let me just close by saying THANK YOU vivify93 for your passionate work; I'm glad I had the opportunity to play through such a quality hack- you're truly a credit to the community!  :beer:

Well done in beating FFIV! I am glad to see you enjoyed my personal favorite FF through and through, now there are a few things here...

I believe this *should* be the more difficult Zeromus if my suggestions were taken up with the increased spell powers from the Japanese version. Zeromus was never that difficult of a boss though in any version but the EasyType (where one of his moves are to cast Doom on your entire party)

There is mention of that Cleaver missing again... you're not the first person to have that happen to, I don't know what could cause that unless thrown during the interim phase possibly? I imagine that's not the case though.

Quote
Secondly, I had Edge try to steal the dark matter from Zeromus, which someone advised me to do in order to reduce Zeromus's Big Bang attack power... and it failed 5 times before I gave up and moved on to have him throw.

...It's been nearly 25 years and that rumor is Still going around? The Dark Matter does Nothing. There is no special code in Big Bang that looks at whether a Dark Matter is held in order to reduce its damage. That's still amusing that the old playground rumor of a harder Japanese Zeromus could be mitigated by stealing the Dark Matter is still alive and well after all of this time.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 12, 2015, 11:01:59 am
No, Grimoire LD, the restored enemy difficulties were in Namingway Edition. Should still be.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on March 12, 2015, 03:06:47 pm
...It's been nearly 25 years and that rumor is Still going around? The Dark Matter does Nothing. There is no special code in Big Bang that looks at whether a Dark Matter is held in order to reduce its damage. That's still amusing that the old playground rumor of a harder Japanese Zeromus could be mitigated by stealing the Dark Matter is still alive and well after all of this time.

That's too funny man; I hate looking things up in FAQS; it completely sucks the fun out of games for me in this internet age of insta info. You're right- I totally did hear this rumor from a buddy of mine! :laugh: That really reminds me of the good ol' NES days, when the most fantastical and creative urban legends existed around so many games, but usually amounted to absolutely nothing!

I can remove the fandom-I'm-not-even-into reference, (This would probably also entail me removing the following lines. Golbez: Why so serious, Kain?; Lugae: This isn't even my final form!) but in no way am I going to insert another movie reference while inserting another.

Need a better replacement for "We are animosity!" than a movie reference, though. Sorry. Not taking out references / memes and inserting new ones.

That line that I suggested did not first appear in the screenplay of Event Horizon (a film which I'm sure the vast majority of people have never even seen much less heard of). Furthermore, it's not an iconic slogan from a recognizable source, unlike the other three memes you cited, and is not identified with Event Horizon by anyone.

The origin of "I am the darkness behind the stars" dates back to the religion of Zoroastrianism, an ancient Persian philosophy which predates Christianity and Judaism, and where some scholars believe that the then enslaved Hebrews may have gotten the idea of One God, as well as many other re-purposed stories such as Noah's Ark, The Garden of Eden, etc). The line I suggested describes the destructive spirit aspect of the divine, Angra Mainyu, or in middle Persian as Ahriman (ring any bells, Final Fantasy fans?).

I feel that my suggestion is an excellent alternative. If, however you disagree, I can accept that; but I can't accept that it's not a worthy amendment due to that line being some pop culture reference or internet meme, because it's not.  I've yet to hear anyone say "Event Horizon!" if that line is mentioned in a conversation.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 12, 2015, 03:27:26 pm
Memes removed. I remember I mentioned what memes / references I put in Project II in one of Mato's streams, so I shall go look for that.

Edit 1 - Nope, those four are the only ones, and they're all gone. (The new mini's line in Silvera is "Hoity toity! Are you guys giants?!") This shall be in v2.09. As I understand it, you're done with Project II, right, The_Atomik_Punk!?

Edit 2 - You reference beating Zeromus, so yeah, you're done, as far as I can tell. v2.09 will come out either later today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: The_Atomik_Punk! on March 12, 2015, 04:16:44 pm
Memes removed. I remember I mentioned what memes / references I put in Project II in one of Mato's streams, so I shall go look for that.

Edit 1 - Nope, those four are the only ones, and they're all gone. (The new mini's line in Silvera is "Hoity toity! Are you guys giants?!") This shall be in v2.09. As I understand it, you're done with Project II, right, The_Atomik_Punk!?

Edit 2 - You reference beating Zeromus, so yeah, you're done, as far as I can tell. v2.09 will come out either later today or tomorrow.

Yes indeed I am; no additional feedback to be had from me! I look forward to your future projects, vivify93 - see ya around!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 12, 2015, 04:23:44 pm
Thanks for all your feedback, The_Atomik_Punk!. :) I do appreciate it, even if I seemed hardheaded at times.

v2.10 (Decided to skip v2.09 in favor of a more round number.) has been submitted.

Changes:
- Enemies who were changed to Leshy, Marilith, and Bavarois in v2.08 were reverted to their FFII US original names: Weeper, Screamer, and Slime.
- King Fabul is now said to have been the high monk before becoming king.
- Fixed Silk Web name bug.
- Changed Uncurse Potion to Cross.
- They Might Be Giants, The Dark Knight, Star Trek, and "This isn't even my final form!" references eliminated.

Edit 1 - You can also get it here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-10.zip) if you're eager to upgrade.

Hopefully, this is the last update for a few months, until something major happens.

Edit 2 - Submission approved, now on RHDN official page.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 14, 2015, 08:10:20 am
Instead of Cross, How about Revivify?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 14, 2015, 02:50:14 pm
...

Why didn't I think of that? Thank you, Cavery210. That's even an FFVI item name, too.

Edit 1 - v2.11 has been submitted. I won't upload it here since it's such a minor change.

Edit 2 - Also, I noticed my CRT TV is the exact same kind The_Atomik_Punk! used. Sony Trinitron. Not sure if it's the same size, though. Mine has some awful pincushion distortion going on, but eh, it was free, and I figure it adds to the authenticity. :P
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 14, 2015, 06:26:48 pm
FFVI item name AND subtle nod to the creator to boot.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on March 14, 2015, 09:05:25 pm
When I threw the kitchen knife and it was ineffective, it was right when he was transitioning, so perhaps that is the reason. The next time I played, I threw it later and it worked.

Good call removing the pop references, I think.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 15, 2015, 07:15:21 am
There's still a reference to Namingway Edition in the credits in the Romhacking.net page. Also can you change Silver to Mithril and Fury into Bserk and Nuke into Flare because I remember FF6us used that name. Also the Ninja sword could be changed to Forged as FF6 uses that name. Oh, and Eggtimer into WakeBell because Eggtimer sounds dumb. Also did you change Skelton to Skeleton?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 15, 2015, 12:42:36 pm
There's a reference there because Rodimus did a lot of work and I'd still like to thank him. I'm not changing Silver to Mythril; that's something for Namingway. It was called Silver in FFI, so it stays as Silver here. Bserk / Bersk is not coming back. Skelton has been Skeleton since the v1.00. Eggtimer is staying. It's not becoming Wake Bell. Nuke can't become Flare because of Bahamut's MegaNuke. If I changed Nuke to Flare, it'd be MegaFlre or MegaFlar. Besides, it's Nuke FFI. The point of Project II is to be a natural bridging point between Phil Sandhop's FFI and Ted Woolsey's FFVI.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 15, 2015, 01:46:54 pm
...

Why didn't I think of that? Thank you, Cavery210. That's even an FFVI item name, too.

Edit 1 - v2.11 has been submitted. I won't upload it here since it's such a minor change.

Edit 2 - Also, I noticed my CRT TV is the exact same kind The_Atomik_Punk! used. Sony Trinitron. Not sure if it's the same size, though. Mine has some awful pincushion distortion going on, but eh, it was free, and I figure it adds to the authenticity. :P

I'm frequently amazed by how small a world this is.

I owned a Trinitron back in the day too!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on March 15, 2015, 05:42:45 pm
If you're looking for an alternative name for Pray, how about Faith? Can't remember if that name's used in the JP version or not, as I've played so many versions of FF4 at this point, a couple of them I'm playing simultaneously now (this, Combat Boost, and the constant testing of my own project).
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Midna on March 15, 2015, 05:44:01 pm
Wish may also work, that's what Paper Mario translated it as.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on March 15, 2015, 09:59:18 pm
Wish may also work, that's what Paper Mario translated it as.

After all every reference to "Praying" in FFII SNES is changed to Wishing, Tower of Wishes, Wish for the Big Whale, Wish for the Legend, etc.

So Wish works well enough.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 16, 2015, 12:18:38 am
No, but thank you. This does remind me, now I remember why I wanted to keep it as Pray to begin with: the Tower of Prayer. I'm not keeping it as the House of Wishes, that's dumb. Also, EarthBound got away with the concept of prayer.

Anyway, does anyone think it's a bit odd to have Revive Potion and Revivify as items, or no? It kind of bothers me, but not really enough to undo anything. I mean, Revivify is eight letters and Revive is six, so at a glance, you'd know what to use...
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 16, 2015, 03:17:38 pm
\ Nuke can't become Flare because of Bahamut's MegaNuke. If I changed Nuke to Flare, it'd be MegaFlre or MegaFlar. Besides, it's Nuke FFI.
Well in FF6, Mega Flare was called Sun Flare.

March 16, 2015, 03:26:36 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well in FF6, Mega Flare was called Sun Flare. Also, the only reason EarthBound got away with Prayer was because you needed it to beat Giygas. FF6 called it Health but that's too long. Also a alternate name for Bacchus's Wine would be Nectar as DSOP called it. Hermes's Sandals could be called Dash Boots. And Mindblow could be Trance as FF1 called it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Grimoire LD on March 16, 2015, 03:48:54 pm
Those are all pretty good suggestions Cavery. I especially like the use of Nectar since Wine is the "Nectar of the Gods", quite clever and some good call backs to FFI with Trance and Dash Boots makes a good deal of sense.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 16, 2015, 09:20:52 pm
I like the Nectar and Trance suggestions. Not sure about Dash Boots. They'd need to be DashBoot or DashShoe. I kind of re-imagined Hermes and Bacchus as small statues of the respective gods that the characters use, if anyone's wondering why I didn't think of alternatives for them. And I'm going to say no to SunFlare because it was MegaNuke in FFII US, and Nuke was in FFI and FF Legend. I'll keep Trance and Nectar in mind for the next release, however. :) No immediate new release because we just did one.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bobolicious81 on March 17, 2015, 07:19:45 pm
To avoid confusion with Revivify, Revive could be changed to FenixDwn to be consistent with FF3US.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 17, 2015, 08:15:23 pm
No, we've been over this multiple times: I hate abbreviations with a burning passion. That spells out neither Phoenix nor Down fully. If it's enough of a problem that people report they're confusing Revive Potions and Revivifies, I'll change Revivify to Cross.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on March 17, 2015, 08:48:01 pm
A Cross isn't necessarily a religious symbol even if it's used as one. Technically it's a method of execution. But if it was already used in US II then I say use it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 17, 2015, 08:58:40 pm
Um... What was the rationale behind nixing Life in favor of Revive to begin with?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Chrysologus on March 17, 2015, 11:29:19 pm
In this context, the cross is definitely a religious symbol!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 18, 2015, 02:36:39 pm
A Cross isn't necessarily a religious symbol even if it's used as one. Technically it's a method of execution. But if it was already used in US II then I say use it.
FFII US only had Heal Potions, which cured all status ailments. They were put in every shop alongside Ether at their regular price.

Um... What was the rationale behind nixing Life in favor of Revive to begin with?
If you remember, the Potions in FFII US were named after the spells: Cure1 Potion, Cure2 Potion, Cure3 Potion, Life1 Potion, Heal Potion. I didn't think the spells and Potions needed to have the exact same names. Revive Potion comes from the English FFII beta, Shadow of Palakia.

In this context, the cross is definitely a religious symbol!
Definitely! :) That's why I'm averse to putting it in. Trying to somewhat follow NoA's censorship policies at the time, with some leeway regarding death references.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 18, 2015, 05:18:46 pm
For FenixDwn, how about FenixTail? The proper translation was Pheonix's Tail after all.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 18, 2015, 11:59:24 pm
It's a lovely suggestion, but I would rather not because Phoenix Tail doesn't really have a precedent in the FF series.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bobolicious81 on March 19, 2015, 12:46:45 pm
There's always Raise. It looks slightly less like Revivify.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 19, 2015, 01:57:25 pm
Alright... I just have a question. Are you guys giving alternatives to offer input, (Which I appreciate!) saying Revive Potion and Revivify are too close and need to be changed, or both?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bobolicious81 on March 19, 2015, 02:11:20 pm
I think Revive is fine, and perfectly descriptive of what it does.
I was just throwing out an alternative since there seem to be some doubts.
But if people can use Fire and Fira in the newer FFs without getting confused, it should be fine as is.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on March 19, 2015, 04:41:59 pm
Pheonix Tail is the Japanese name of Pheonix Down.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Seihen on March 19, 2015, 07:38:58 pm
Pheonix Tail is the Japanese name of Pheonix Down.

Phoenix Feather would be a closer interpretation.  Looking at images from FF XI and other games, it's a feather from the tail of the Phoenix, though frankly I think down (as in the soft feathers of a bird) is a fantastic translation that captures both the meaning and has a whimsical nature to it.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on March 19, 2015, 09:12:53 pm
If you're wanting to change revive potions to phoenix downs, why not just name it (feather symbol)Phoenix?

Granted, Revive/Life work perfectly fine for me, but in case you want to change it, there's my imput.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 19, 2015, 11:06:28 pm
But if people can use Fire and Fira in the newer FFs without getting confused, it should be fine as is.
This is an excellent analogy for this situation. Yeah, I say keep it as "revive."
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on March 20, 2015, 12:46:13 am
I feel that far too much time is being devoted to such a minor bit of minutae.

Phoenix Down = FenixDown = Revive

It's all good...the dialogue script is more important after all
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on March 22, 2015, 12:21:50 am
v2.11 has been up since March 17th, apparently. Go for it, if having the Cross changed to Revivify is that important to you. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on April 14, 2015, 07:40:52 pm
My only wish is that you take a page from Sonic 3 Complete, and offer optional patches for everything this mod includes. I'd like the script you have without the mechanics changes.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 14, 2015, 08:19:48 pm
Most of his changes were really just to restore the features already present in Final Fantasy 4 on top of the script changes. Those features were still in the game just dummied.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on April 14, 2015, 08:40:04 pm
My only wish is that you take a page from Sonic 3 Complete, and offer optional patches for everything this mod includes. I'd like the script you have without the mechanics changes.
I apologize, but that doesn't seem like anything I'll do for this mod. For example, Cry didn't do anything originally while you had Porom. It lowered all enemies' evasion to the Sneak command. Porom and Edge are never on the same team... you see the problem? Lots of the other commands that I changed were useless from the get-go. I believe User Options' additions only serve to enhance players' FFIV experience, and the equipment changes are only for the good, most of them having been taken from FFIV Easy Type; many FFIV modders agree Easy Type did good for weapons and armor without making the game too easy.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on April 14, 2015, 10:41:31 pm
I don't actually mind the mechanics changes, I just wish I could play FF4 the way I remember it, just with a new script.

At the very least, I highly, HIGHLY request changing the title screen back to the original. The new one is Americanized and just looks bad IMO, when the original is so much prettier. It's really the one and only thing keeping this from being the definitive version of FFIV.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on April 14, 2015, 11:39:46 pm
Wait, so the original titlescreen from the Japanese version is all that would make it "definitive?"

I hear that word bandied about a lot when it comes to Final Fantasy hacks. What exactly are we trying to "define?"

Imagine if I took a print of "Starry Night" by Vincent Van Gogh and painted stuff over it that I thought looked good. Is it art? Sure! But is it, or does it stand any chance of being, a "definitive" version of "Starry Night?" No, of course not. It's my painting that I made by painting over a print of "Starry Night."

If you like the script so much, why quibble over the gameplay changes? Seems like you're attempting to have your cake and eat it too, if you don't mind my saying so.

This is our art, man. Your suggestions (as I understand it) are welcome, but you're sounding like you just expect someone to do a crapton of work specifically for you, free for nothing.

I just don't think that's very cool, dood
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 15, 2015, 12:04:06 am
Completely agree with Spooniest here. Vivify93 did a fantastic job of cleaning up the game. The script, the title screen, User Options, use of the dummied items and commands, while keeping to the confines of Nintendo of America's standards of the time. It all makes for an enhanced version of the Final Fantasy II (US) that you remember, yet making it Final Fantasy IV like it should be.

I agree that some, like myself, are a bit purist when it comes to the names and censorship, which is why I used Project II as a base to make Namingway Edition. However at the end of the day, I think he made something well worth the efforts.

Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on April 15, 2015, 01:13:28 am
I feel like I'm being attacked here...In fact I'm pretty sure that's what's going on, and I don't think I deserve it.

I'm not "entitled" to anything. Of course I appreciate what we have. I don't think a version should be tailor-made just for me. But I do consider this the definitive version of FF4, and trying to debate what that word means is just silly. The bottom line is: what vivify93 has created is a better version of FF4 than anyone will ever make, including Square themselves. This is not comparable, in any shape or form, to a modification of a painting. It's more like a fanedit of a film. Which would you rather watch: an academy-award winning film, or a cut of the film that removes any and all unnecessary, badly-written scenes? I think most people would prefer the latter.

I think what vivify93 has done is not JUST a modification. It's a hack that creates the ultimate edition of a game. It's up there with Sonic 3 Complete, FF Restoration, Pokemon Crystal: Emu Edition and Metroid mOTHER as one of the greatest hacks ever made, for this reason. Something that perfects what's already there. And so if I suggest something be changed, it's not me saying "This sucks, change it". It's me saying "This hack is almost completely perfect, save for this one detail."

I just want to be able to play this and have a headcanon in my head that this is an officially released Square product. And having an FF4 title screen that's not FF4's title screen at all detracts from that, IMO. Again, I'm not making a huge deal of this. I'm not saying it ruins the hack, of course it doesn't. The actual game is excellent. I am not demanding what ANYONE do with their "art". It's a suggestion and a reason for the suggestion, nothing more. Calling me entitled for that is just not fair.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on April 15, 2015, 01:26:50 am
BlazeHeatnix, are you American?
The reason I ask is, Project II's title screen is that of the original US release of "Final Fantasy II," except with the "II" rewritten as "IV."
For those of us who live in the States and grew up with the NoA SNES version of the game, this is a pretty logical title screen for vivify to have used.
I'm not trying to attack, BTW, just presenting a counterpoint.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on April 15, 2015, 03:04:42 am
Your ideas about feeling a need to play an "ultimate" version of the game are the total antithesis of my thoughts on gaming.

Perhaps I'm being a bit hasty in judging you this harshly. Viv and I are friends and I think Project II is one of the finest hacks I've ever seen cross the frontsite, so I got a bit defensive, there.

Sorry.

I think that if you want the script from Project II in a vanilla edition of FF4 with the original title screen, then you might speak to Viv about making your own version, using a copy of his script. It's not like his work is copyrightable, in this case. I'm sure Viv would be totally down with that, unless I'm too far mistaken. What do you say Viv?

Please, relax while you're here. I apologize if I got your dander up.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 15, 2015, 08:05:48 am
I feel like I'm being attacked here...In fact I'm pretty sure that's what's going on, and I don't think I deserve it.

Sorry, that's not how I wanted to come across. However, I do get defensive over Viv's project. Not justifying my actions and I understand your point.

 
Quote
I just want to be able to play this and have a headcanon in my head that this is an officially released Square product. And having an FF4 title screen that's not FF4's title screen at all detracts from that, IMO. Again, I'm not making a huge deal of this. I'm not saying it ruins the hack, of course it doesn't. The actual game is excellent. I am not demanding what ANYONE do with their "art". It's a suggestion and a reason for the suggestion, nothing more. Calling me entitled for that is just not fair.

I think if you leave vanilla Project II alone, the title screen works for what it was originally. But I understand, folks like myself are purists. This is why my next update to Namingway Edition will come with a patch over featuring a close facsimile of the Japanese Final Fantasy IV title screen. To understand WHY, look at my topic. It will be an extra patch so that if you don't like my edits to Project II you can just add it to the Vanilla version to make it YOUR "definitive" version. Credits to chillyfeez's hard work on this. 
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on April 15, 2015, 08:09:14 pm
Thanks for the sentiments, Rodimus Primal and Spooniest, but please be nice to BlazeHeatnix. BlazeHeatnix, thank you so much for your compliments; they mean a lot to me. :) You may wish to check out Final Fantasy IV: Namingway Edition (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,19301.0.html) by Rodimus Primal and friends, which will feature an optional patch to restore something like the original FFIV title screen, as Rodimus himself said above. You should be able to combine their title screen patch with Project II.

I actually do rather like the newly-drawn IV by Paladin in place of the II, because it keeps the title screen Americanized, thus keeping in standard with the era, without keeping an improper number. I did have thoughts about looking into reverting the title some way, but I've received nothing but kudos and praise for Paladin's title, so I want it to stay.

Thanks so much for enjoying Project II so much, I really do appreciate it. Thank you for your understanding about my stubbornness in changing the title screen and reverting game mechanics.

Edit - Would anyone like a remake of the original manual from 1991? I've sadly lost access to my crappy Compaq laptop from 2009, (R.I.P.!) but as soon as I can get a new computer all to myself, I can totally do try to do this. It may be available as a separate download, since it'll just be a bunch of PNG images. I don't know how to bind a PDF.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on April 15, 2015, 09:14:29 pm
Not to steal your thunder, vivify, but the manual is readily available on the Final Fantasy IV Reference Book (http://rb.thundaga.com).
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Digitsie on April 16, 2015, 12:11:04 am
Would anyone like a remake of the original manual from 1991? I've sadly lost access to my crappy Compaq laptop from 2009, (R.I.P.!) but as soon as I can get a new computer all to myself, I can totally do try to do this. It may be available as a separate download, since it'll just be a bunch of PNG images. I don't know how to bind a PDF.

You could use this site:

http://convert-my-image.com/ImagesToPdf

if you decide to make one.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on April 16, 2015, 12:58:05 am
Oh, heh - you said "remake."
Sometimes I only read every third word or so.
Sorry.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Cavery210 on April 16, 2015, 11:41:13 am
A line change i'd like to see.

Have you seen Cid? - Cid left to take care of the airships. Have you seen him?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on April 17, 2015, 10:13:40 am
That's a good line change, Cavery210, but there's not enough room.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: thepatrickinator on February 28, 2016, 10:57:51 pm
There's a romhack named Final Fantasy IV:Playable Golbez Edition by fedorajoe and I wanted to use Project II as a base for Playable Golbez Edition to be upgraded because were are currently on version 2.1. What popped into my head is that the Ebony armor retranslates to Black Armor. The Ebony Shield will have KO immunity and it is used only for Golbez. Imposter is the Japanese Translation for Darkside as the enemy Darkside is Golbez's Imposter. I know that Project II can be used to a base for other projects so that can help Rick K's Golbez Edition romhack.

People that I know can help with the Golbez Edition project:
-chillyfeez for the various bits of coding, the User Options functions, the B Button Dash, and
the title screen(I'd love to have the Golbez Final Fantasy IV logo used in the Title screen)
-Me for the amazing work with Dark Knight Golbez and Fusoya spries converted from The After Years including Pressure for Dark Knight, and more further suggestions
-Rodimus Primal for the script especially some new scenes exclusive to fedorajoe's Playable Golbez romhack.
-You for Project II as base for other projects which can improve Rick K's Golbez Edition romhack.
-fedorajoe for the wonderful romhack to make Golbez Playable a new playable character in the original Final Fantasy IV

What I'd love to see in the romhack:
-Golbez using the Crystal so I can never hear Zeromus taunting Golbez again.
-A lot of new dialogue and expanded scenes
-An improved script for new scenes exclusive to fedorajoe's Final Fantasy IV romhack.
-Golbez and Rydia having the Double Black Magic Band with new command Band as both of them know Black Magic)
-New Battle Sprites for Fusoya and Golbez

If Rydia and Golbez both use Meteo:
Rydia: Now use Meteo!
Golbez: Right!

If you guys watch Scratch Point's playthrough of Final Fantasy IV: Playable Golbez Edition, then you may agree with me.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 29, 2016, 02:22:43 am
That is an astronomical fuckton of work to be done. I wouldn't be opposed if fedorajoe himself came to me with the idea of using Project II in an update to Playable Golbez Edition, but as it stands, I don't think I would want to go out of my way to do it myself. Plus, I can see it being a mess; there would be things fedorajoe would want to changed that I would want to leave unchanged or change in a different way, and Rodimus of course would have his own vision if he were to help. And chillyfeez has his own life and own FFIV (And non-FFIV.) projects on his own plate, so I'm not sure if he would be able to help with this theoretical patch update.

As for the script--I'm actually the one who wrote the entire Project II script. Rodimus Primal, to be sure, inserted a few updates to better integrate the Japanese FFIV changes to the Project's dialogues, but he didn't really have anything to do in the script writing process.

I appreciate the ideas, and they are very lovely, but I can't really do anything like that.

February 29, 2016, 06:10:06 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
While we're here, I've just submitted v2.13. What's new:

- Fixed a graphical glitch on the title screen. Compare the old screen (http://i.imgur.com/HLWTFHM.png) to the new one (http://i.imgur.com/WQECqf1.png).
- Reverted the curse-curing item's name to Cross. I dislike any other name for it.
- Updated the terms of Fusoya's Regen command in the Supplements to be a bit more vague, since I've heard in one place that its active time is based on his Agility.

You can get the update over here (http://www.bwass.org/bucket/ProjectII_v2-13.zip)! It's also been submitted to RHDN.

Edit - Now on RHDN.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 29, 2016, 06:10:37 pm
There's a romhack named Final Fantasy IV:Playable Golbez Edition by fedorajoe and I wanted to use Project II as a base for Playable Golbez Edition to be upgraded because were are currently on version 2.1. What popped into my head is that the Ebony armor retranslates to Black Armor. The Ebony Shield will have KO immunity and it is used only for Golbez. Imposter is the Japanese Translation for Darkside as the enemy Darkside is Golbez's Imposter. I know that Project II can be used to a base for other projects so that can help Rick K's Golbez Edition romhack.

People that I know can help with the Golbez Edition project:
-chillyfeez for the various bits of coding, the User Options functions, the B Button Dash, and
the title screen(I'd love to have the Golbez Final Fantasy IV logo used in the Title screen)
-Me for the amazing work with Dark Knight Golbez and Fusoya spries converted from The After Years including Pressure for Dark Knight, and more further suggestions
-Rodimus Primal for the script especially some new scenes exclusive to fedorajoe's Playable Golbez romhack.
-You for Project II as base for other projects which can improve Rick K's Golbez Edition romhack.
-fedorajoe for the wonderful romhack to make Golbez Playable a new playable character in the original Final Fantasy IV

What I'd love to see in the romhack:
-Golbez using the Crystal so I can never hear Zeromus taunting Golbez again.
-A lot of new dialogue and expanded scenes
-An improved script for new scenes exclusive to fedorajoe's Final Fantasy IV romhack.
-Golbez and Rydia having the Double Black Magic Band with new command Band as both of them know Black Magic)
-New Battle Sprites for Fusoya and Golbez

If Rydia and Golbez both use Meteo:
Rydia: Give your power to Meteo!
Golbez: Very well.

I really have no intention of touching fedorajoe's project, just to be clear. I would never mess with someone's project without their permission first.  I've not even had the chance to PLAY Golbez Edition let alone even think about touching it.

The dialogue work I did with Namingway Edition was done to make it closer to the Japanese FFIV and I asked vivify93's permission to even MAKE the project since Project II was used as a base.

Back on this topic, nice work vivify93. Always glad to see good updates to any worthwhile project.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on February 29, 2016, 10:06:58 pm
1) I made User Options, but as far as I'm concerned, it now belongs to everybody. The patch is there on RHDN and you're welcome to use it in any project.

2) I think I might have a b-button dash patch lying around that can be applied to any hack with User Options. I think I made it for Rodimus to get B-dash into Namingway Edition.

3) those things are easy enough. Really not any more work than I've already done, so I don't mind helping you out there. The title screen, on the other hand, is kind of a thing. Whereas I now have enough experience that I'm confident I could do something for you, it would still be at least a couple of days' work. Unless this project were to move beyond the theoretical, I couldn't commit to it. And if I did agree, you'd still have to do the design - I'm not particularly good at that sort of thing. I'd be helping you integrate an already a existing design into the game.

4) you should really start a new topic for further discussion of this project.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Vanya on March 01, 2016, 05:39:07 am
Off topic, but I've always found the attitude towards using someone else's hack as a base for another hack to be completely contrary to the very concept of ROM hacking to begin with. Aside from the basic politeness of INFORMING someone that you intend to use their work as a base, permission really seems to be besides the point of the entire endeavor. Credit where credit is due, but if an initial hack falls under "fair use" how can a hack of a hack not full under the same rules? I think I might start a thread about this.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: chillyfeez on March 01, 2016, 05:58:24 am
Off topic, but I've always found the attitude towards using someone else's hack as a base for another hack to be completely contrary to the very concept of ROM hacking to begin with. Aside from the basic politeness of INFORMING someone that you intend to use their work as a base, permission really seems to be besides the point of the entire endeavor. Credit where credit is due, but if an initial hack falls under "fair use" how can a hack of a hack not full under the same rules? I think I might start a thread about this.
I tend to agree, hence point 1 in my previous post.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: thepatrickinator on March 05, 2016, 01:55:55 pm
I'd suggest you guys check out Final Fantasy IV: Playable Golbez Edition!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Steve_Doido on December 02, 2016, 06:39:47 pm
I'm going to be playing FFIV for my first time. Should I use this version?
And are more famous lines, such as "You Spoony Bard", in the game?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on December 02, 2016, 07:02:57 pm
I'm going to be playing FFIV for my first time. Should I use this version?
And are more famous lines, such as "You Spoony Bard", in the game?

Yes and yes.  :)

It also makes for one helluva good base for projects as well!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on December 02, 2016, 08:02:04 pm
I'm going to be playing FFIV for my first time. Should I use this version?
And are more famous lines, such as "You Spoony Bard", in the game?
I left that particular line alone. :D

(http://i.imgur.com/V0ShBJz.png)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Steve_Doido on February 20, 2017, 07:44:59 pm
vivify93
Finished the game, wondering if you can give me permission to translate your version to Brazilian Portuguese. It's really great!  ;)
Even have some tools ready.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on February 20, 2017, 08:09:34 pm
Hi Steve, you have my permission to translate it, but please keep in mind that Project II isn't a translation, but a "script rewrite." So my script may not be the most accurate compared to an official translation.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Steve_Doido on February 21, 2017, 03:16:52 am
Hi Steve, you have my permission to translate it, but please keep in mind that Project II isn't a translation, but a "script rewrite." So my script may not be the most accurate compared to an official translation.
Don't worry. :D
Thanks!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on February 21, 2017, 03:25:41 pm
You'd have to be loons
To wanna be the spoons.
Under twin moons,
The prince of rubble croons.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on May 03, 2017, 05:57:50 pm
Small update; here's the post on it pulled from Namingway Edition's page.

Look what I overlooked in Project II.

(http://i.imgur.com/qQhcOxP.png)

If you try to leave a key item after battle, it's supposed to say something like "You can't leave this key item behind." Instead, it's just garbage. I'll let you know of a fix.

Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/ueWcprN.png)

I'm gonna write a small guide on how to fix this for anyone who might need it in the future.

1. Headered ROM: Go to 0000E003 / Unheadered ROM: Go to 0000DE03
2. If you're not using a table file, type in 51 67 60 5C 6E 60 FF 6F 5C 66 60 01 52 03 6F 63 60 FF 66 60 74 C1
3. If you're using a table file, type the ASCII "Please take" without the quotation marks. Then type in the hex bytes 01 52 03. Switch back to typing in ASCII and enter "the key." with the period, but without the quotation marks.
4. The new message should display perfectly fine.

This is implemented in Project II now as well; v2.14 has been submitted and is awaiting approval. :) Thanks to Tomato for pointing this out to me, inadvertently or not.

Edit - v2.14 is now live.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on August 22, 2017, 05:22:20 pm
v2.15 is out. Not much happened.

- Fixed an improper indentation on the "leaving key item behind" text.
- Tiny typo fix. On the save screen, the message "Failed......" can appear somehow. I changed that to "Failed..." using the il digraph. I removed the digraph from this message since it didn't need it.
- Minor changes to how status names are treated; in later FF games, namely XII and XIII, statuses in menu descriptions are capitalized. e.g. "Randomly inflicts Stop upon striking an enemy." So I changed that up real quick and the Supplements have been updated to reflect that.
- Small updates to the Supplements. Nothing major.

Honestly, I made this update because I noticed that I had misspelled "efficacy" in one of the changelog descriptions, and... turns out I forgot to fix it when uploading the new ZIP. Whoops.

Oh. And obviously, I won't be doing a remake of the English manual to go along with Project II; I realized the Supplements may be text-only but it accomplishes pretty much the same thing that the original FFII US manual does.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on September 03, 2017, 11:27:46 pm
Another update. The whole reason I made v2.15 was actually so I could have an excuse to fix a typo in the readme. I didn't do that. Whoops! That's done, and I also did a few other things.

v2.20
- Eliminated references to current and former friends in the script (Julia's name is now Helen, a Clock Tower reference for fun)
- Fixed a typo in the opening (airforce is two words)
- Changed one of Cecil's lines in the prologue, where he and Rosa are discussing the attack on Mysidia in his room. This was to reflect the more accurate DS script
- Capitalized all instances of Crystal to reflect the DS script, except in reference to the Lunar Whale's crystal activation mechanism

It's been submitted to the site as per the usual.


Edit - It's live!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Sephirous on September 13, 2017, 10:53:20 pm
I have a question.

I have been comparing back and forth this project and the naming way project and I am trying to figure out which version is the most definitive version of FF IV? Like I see that one focuses on translation where the other has more updated keys and stuff. So if I were to collect the absolute closest version to the definitive original. Which version is the one I should aim at?

I apologize if the question seems redundant, I just got confused trying to compare the two.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on September 14, 2017, 02:07:33 am
Hey there Sephirous, thanks for your interest in Rodimus' and my projects.

To sum things up, it's down to taste. Namingway Edition is based off of Project II, and thus uses its script for the most part. The v2.20 update changes haven't been implemented into Namingway Edition yet--they may not be since it's up to Rodimus' discretion--but pretty much, it's the same script with some minor alterations.

My goal was to stay as true as possible to a 1991 Nintendo-era script while keeping in line with most of their policies, such as:

- No religion (Allowances made in the following places: Rosa's command Pray, the Tower of Prayers and the concept of praying, the Cross item which cures Curse, possibly another allowance that I can't remember)
- No swearing (Not even for the concept of Hell)
- Names for items, spells, enemies, etc. have to be within the allowed character space
- All tutorial text kept, for better or for worse
- People ARE allowed to die, and death is openly referenced, so that's one major difference to my script as opposed to a 90's SNES-era game script

As for gameplay and exploration, I did do the following.

- Restored missing spells, commands, and items and the text associated with them
- Restored missing magic attached to weapons (i.e. Lunar Staff, Murasame and Defense Sword, and Elven Bow now cast Dispel, Armor, and Shell again, respectively)
- Restored missing items to shops, chests, and enemy drops

I did not do any of the below.

- Restore stripping dancer in Baron Town (though I'd like to, at this point)
- Restore original maps (Not even the Developers' Room, no; you find the Magazine in a chest in a dungeon someplace instead)
- Restore original enemy stats or battle scripts
- Restore original title screen
- Restore Asura's original effects (Rather than casting a full-party Armor, she casts a Mega-Cure instead)

Rodimus Primal actually based Namingway Edition off of Project II with the goal of having a modernized FFIV experience. He and his friends did all of the above that I did not do, plus more.

- Hold down the B Button to dash as opposed to tapping the L Button
- Gave all items, except key items, a description
- Modernized terms utilizing digraph tiles (For example, Fire3 is Firaga, Milon is Scarmiglione, Silver equipment is Mythril, Nuke is Flare)

If the latter appeals more to you and you have no nostalgia for FF terms circa 1991, I say go with Namingway Edition. It's a really polished job considering the limitations Rodimus had to suffer with!

However, if you'd like a bit neater of a presentation plus my original intent, Project II is the way to go.

There's something I must point out though. While Project II's script takes inspiration from the PS1, DS, GBA, and PSP translations, it is at its core a rewrite of Kaoru Moriyama's original translation from the SNES. It is by no means a retranslation. I replayed the opening recently and while I'm still very happy with my work, it's obvious that things have been pared down from what they once were, and it just doesn't have that solid fantasy feel to immerse you in the world.

If you want my honest-to-god opinion, though, I recommend the PC version above all. The new battle system is leagues above the original and the Augment system is great fun. Just give it the original soundtrack mod and the 25 FPS Battles mod though, for the love of all that is holy! 15 FPS battles are nearly unplayable and the "remastered" soundtrack is awful in my opinion.

So, to sum things up...

- If you want an original SNES-style take on terms and censorship, (Except for the concept of death.) go with Project II
- If you want a more modern take on FF terms with some minor censorship removal, (If I remember right, this basically equates to explicitly referencing the concept of Hell, maybe some "damns" in there for good measure someplace, and the spell Pearl and the Pearl Arrows are now Holy instead.) go with Namingway Edition
- The original author of Project II ultimately recommends you get the PC Steam version, with the 25 FPS Battle and Original SNES Soundtrack mods
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: sluffy on September 14, 2017, 11:50:16 am
Thank you very, very much for explaining all this in great specific detail! Going to try either SNES version.


Quote
I replayed the opening recently and while I'm still very happy with my work, it's obvious that things have been pared down from what they once were, and it just doesn't have that solid fantasy feel to immerse you in the world.

Pared down?


Quote
If the latter appeals more to you and you have no nostalgia for FF terms circa 1991, I say go with Namingway Edition. It's a really polished job considering the limitations Rodimus had to suffer with!

Screen space limitations?


Just nitpicking for my own "documentation" purposes. I like to keep detailed notes (+,-,tcrf,extras,problems) about games + hacks I use. Sorry if it's a bit nuisance. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on September 14, 2017, 11:30:11 pm
I noticed my script is kind of... lacking in detail, for lack of a better term. I had to be concise with some NPCs due to limitations within the data. For example, one NPC in the prologue says something like "I trust the king!" but in the 3D version, it's more verbose: "Despite his changes as of late, I place my full faith in His Majesty." (Paraphrasing in both instances, but you get the idea.)

As a result, Namingway Edition suffers the same problem, but it's not as bad as J2e blatantly making things up.

The only real limitations Rodimus had to deal with are the magic, item, and enemy names. "Menu strings," as I call them. To fit in more words, he would have to use digraph tiles--for example, the letter limit for spells is technically 5, but he was able to spell out the LV 3 lightning spell as Thundga. To do this, he used digraphs. (Or "squish tiles" as we call them in the scene; I prefer to call them digraphs despite this not being technically correct. It sounds a bit more professional.)

You can't go wrong either way, really.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Sephirous on September 23, 2017, 07:05:39 pm
Sounds good, I do seem to have a problem getting the game to load though.
I downloaded the latest version from here and patched it to the Rom stated that would work and when I go to load it into Snes9X, It just sits with a black screen. I will try a couple more things as I am sure it's probably something on my end during the patch process. But thought I would mention it just in case.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on September 24, 2017, 02:40:32 am
You're using Lunar IPS with a headered v1.1 ROM, right? Let me look into it.

Edit - I applied it to a headered v1.1 ROM with Lunar IPS and the game works fine. I think it might be something on your end, then. Did you use a different patcher, or an unheadered ROM maybe?
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Sephirous on September 24, 2017, 09:48:34 pm
I'll try again, I checked and I am using Lunar. It has the Moon on the Icon.
It probably has something to do with the headered part since at the time I was patching both this one and the namingway version which requires no header. I may have gotten the originals mixed up. I'll give it another shot in a moment.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on September 25, 2017, 04:32:35 am
Alrighty! You can use TUSH (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/608/) to easily add or remove an SNES header. :)
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Sephirous on September 25, 2017, 01:07:33 pm
I finally got it to work. Did a lot of trial and error. The (!) symbol was hard to find in a Rom but at last I found one.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on October 10, 2017, 01:41:21 pm
It had come to my attention that Namingway Edition's renaming menu was broken, so I checked Project II--it was broken there as well. That is to say, the cursor was invisible and it was difficult to navigate the menu. This has been fixed in v2.21, and I renamed Cid's daughter again--Hilda, an FFII reference. I figured this was more appropriate. :)

v2.21 is live on RHDN. http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/ Grab it there.

Edit 1 - I'm aware that I forgot to update the version number on the site page, but when you go to download it, you will be getting v2.21.

Players of Namingway Edition, as soon as Rodimus finds the time, he'll be releasing a fixed version of his mod with the renaming menu fixed.

Edit 2 - Version number is changed, for those who care. :P
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on October 10, 2017, 08:35:04 pm
It had come to my attention that Namingway Edition's renaming menu was broken, so I checked Project II--it was broken there as well. That is to say, the cursor was invisible and it was difficult to navigate the menu. This has been fixed in v2.21, and I renamed Cid's daughter again--Hilda, an FFII reference. I figured this was more appropriate. :)

v2.21 is live on RHDN. http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1659/ Grab it there.

Edit - I'm aware that I forgot to update the version number on the site page, but when you go to download it, you will be getting v2.21.

Players of Namingway Edition, as soon as Rodimus finds the time, he'll be releasing a fixed version of his mod with the renaming menu fixed.

Yeah, I've got to get to it this week. Got back from NYCC and I have a long list of things to get to!
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on October 28, 2017, 06:31:58 pm
Yeah, I've got to get to it this week. Got back from NYCC and I have a long list of things to get to!

Good old New York City City.
Title: Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Rodimus Primal on October 28, 2017, 10:54:36 pm
Good old New York City City.

New York Comic Con actually. Was a fun week, but exhausting.