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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on March 05, 2013, 09:35:26 am

Title: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: RHDNBot on March 05, 2013, 09:35:26 am
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1361a.png) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1361b.png)

Update By: topcat

Chrono Trigger is one of the most beloved RPG's of the SNES era, and arguably of all time. It is the story of 3 teenagers that, while venturing through different eras in time, discover that the future lie in ruins due to an attack from a monstrous, evil beast named Lavos. They set out to save their world and future by defeating this monster. Along the way they travel to many time periods and make friends that will help them in their quest.

This project began in November of 2012 and was just a way to test what could be done w/ the editors that were available. It was set to be an update to the author's preferences. As the game is viewed as "kid friendly" being that any reference to alcohol is changed to soda or lemonade in the pubs. This project was designed to correct that and make the reality of the game more consistent with real life. Due to learning of what bugs these programs can cause only as they come up during testing, this release is the fifth go through of the project, ie version 1.5
In the end most of the dialogue available in the game and in the endings had been changed one way or another. With a few ideas and desires for "better" weapons and armor, all of the deleted equipment has been made available in the game. As this was not done w/ temporal flux, the only way to put them into the game is via enemy drops/steals, so no treasure chests have been added or changed. Some of the already existing equipment in the game has been changed as well, either by name, parameters, or both. Also, enemies have slightly increased hp while giving less exp & tech points. Enough to make gameplay a little more challenging, but not enough to be considered a "hardtype."

This hack contains spoof elements naturally as the author is a vulgar comedian. There are cuss words, adult situations, sexual references, and humor that may be offensive to some. It is not overdone, and the dialogue should not come across as "forced" to fit a joke in. Player discretion is advised.

RHDN Project Page (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1194/)

Relevant Link: (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1194/)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: granz on March 05, 2013, 01:05:02 pm
"Cuss"? I hope any edits to the game script aren't similarly vernacular.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Bregalad on March 05, 2013, 01:43:42 pm
I liked the lemonade reference in CT, it was so obvious it was censorship it made it sound really funny. And I believe this "intentional funny censorship" was probably on purpose.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 05, 2013, 06:45:30 pm
"Slightly stronger" my eye. I died to the first freaking battle because those stupid Blue Imps take like five regular attacks to kill and I didn't buy any Tonics because I didn't expect for them to be that hard. They only take like one or two attacks in the original game, and while I'll admit that may be a bit too easy, five is definitely too much for the first enemy in the game when they're in groups of three.

Anyway, about the dialogue. I don't mind some swearing, but just up to the first battle there were several swears that I felt were too forced and didn't flow well. "It is not overdone" is in my opinion a big fat lie. Maybe it's just because I'm used to the game being censored like it originally was, and the swearing and such kinda ruins the game a bit.

Also, there were a couple spelling/grammar errors I noticed that should be fixed.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Pikachumanson on March 05, 2013, 08:00:30 pm
Hasn't this game already been retranslated?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 05, 2013, 08:08:02 pm
This appears to be a reinterpretation, not a retranslation. Different thing entirely.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Spooniest on March 06, 2013, 03:32:41 am
This hack contains spoof elements naturally as the author is a vulgar comedian. There are cuss words, adult situations, sexual references, and humor that may be offensive to some. It is not overdone, and the dialogue should not come across as "forced" to fit a joke in. Player discretion is advised.

= Not worth playing, imho.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 06, 2013, 04:40:32 pm
I agree with Spooniest. Spoofs are fine, but vulgarity ruins the game. Chrono Trigger just isn't a game that's meant to be vulgar.

Midna illustrates my point well in the post below. Vulgarity and mature humor spoofs just aren't entertaining to me. Spoofs that don't rely on vulgar and mature content are more fun to play. Nowadays, everyone seems to think inserting swearing and sexual content makes something better and/or more entertaining. I personally think it ruins it, which it part of the reason I dislike M rated games such as Call of Duty. Speaking of which, what's the point of having an M rating? I know a ton of kids around ten that play it, so it's not like the rating keeps it away from kids.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Midna on March 06, 2013, 06:27:18 pm
I'd appreciate this if it was a gameplay improvement and/or an uncensor patch only, but I'm really not a big fan of "spoof" hacks that insert swearing and mature humor just for the sake of having swearing and mature humor, sorry... ironically, it does nothing except make the author seem immature and easily-amused.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Pikachumanson on March 06, 2013, 06:48:21 pm
***der hacks is the place for that.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Jorpho on March 06, 2013, 09:29:08 pm
Speaking of which, what's the point of having an M rating? I know a ton of kids around ten that play it, so it's not like the rating keeps it away from kids.
There are plenty of places that voluntarily won't sell an M rated game to a kid directly, are there not?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 06, 2013, 10:20:37 pm
True, but the keyword is "directly". The system isn't foolproof, and kids know that. They'll find someway around it, just to play some stupid wargame.

I could get into a rant of how kids shouldn't be playing those games and all that, but it won't change anything, and besides, this isn't the place for it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: LostTemplar on March 07, 2013, 07:40:08 am
A lot of parents just don't care about what their children are playing, even if it is a bad influence to them. I mean I played 18+ stuff when I was 14, but then again I was "psychologically stable" or whatever you want to call it. On the other hand, I know a kid who's about 12 years old but plays CoD and stuff like that all the time; the difference is that his parents went through a divorce and he's been pretty neglected as it is, making him very susceptible to anything like this. And it shows: "What do you want for your birthday?" - "Guns!" - "Why?" - "Dunno, to kill I guess". But his parents don't listen because hell, how the fuck should I know.

tl;dr It's not the system's fault, it's (usually) the parents' fault.

To get back on topic: I agree with the sentiment that swearing and generally adult-language don't make for a good and mature experience. I haven't even tried this hack, but when an author says "it doesn't feel forced" he's usually wrong. It might not feel that way for him, but then again he's the one who wrote it up. Also, as the others before me kept saying, Chrono Trigger in itself makes pretty much anything like swearing feel forced, because it's just that kind of game.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 07, 2013, 09:18:52 am
So, no one here has actually tried the patch to see what the content actually is before bandwagon ridicule, hijacking, and/or potential trolling of his otherwise nice news topic? I'm disappointed. This kind of treatment is disrespectful toward the submitter and discourages anyone thinking about writing any news for this site.

This is unacceptable. Please refrain from further comment unless it is about this hack or news article. :police:

Perhaps the submitter can elaborate on some of the things mentioned in the article.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Spooniest on March 07, 2013, 03:59:10 pm
First of all, there are no instructions for how to patch it. A minor annoyance, maybe, but I didn't appreciate it. You need to apply it to a headerless rom.

Secondly, when I finally got it to work, I was greeted with THIS:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger000.png)

...Speaks for itself, kind of...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger001.png)

This isn't going to end well, I know it.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger002.png)

This isn't how people usually use the word "shitty." There's no way to make this into a "speakable" piece of dialogue and still include the word "shitty." Try it.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger003.png)

This borders on forgivable, if not for...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger004.png)

...THIS.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger005.png)

Once again, this borders on forgivable, if not for...

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger006.png)

...An immediate re-use of the same thing.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger007.png)

Taban goes in for a little emotional abuse of his daughter, here.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger008.png)

Immediately after this, he calls Crono a "fine lad." This is what we in the music business call "dissonance."

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33809435/CTENVY/Chrono%20Trigger009.png)

I want to say, as well, that most of the script in this segment of the game was unedited. It seems like the crude jokes were all that was added.

I stand by my original premise. This isn't worth playing. I'm not grinding and buying potions to beat the first battle in the game. That's not fun, that's work.

I don't mean to hurt the author's feelings, but Chrono Trigger is a fond memory for us all, and it's been pissed on and lit on fire here. I won't stand for it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: ChronoMoogle on March 07, 2013, 04:32:52 pm
Ouch. This makes me very sad.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: justin3009 on March 07, 2013, 05:40:11 pm
This.. This sounds exactly like the dialogue used in another Chrono Trigger dialogue hack that used swear words like that. Hm.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 07, 2013, 06:38:20 pm
So, no one here has actually tried the patch to see what the content actually is before bandwagon ridicule, hijacking, and/or potential trolling of his otherwise nice news topic?
I tried it, and went through the exact same thoughts as Spooniest detailed in his post above. Exact. Same. Thoughts.

If not for the crude jokes and the increased difficulty, this would probably be a decent hack. But those two things ruin it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Midna on March 07, 2013, 07:47:33 pm
The fact that "Lots of adult language and scenarios" is a bullet point on the hack's page is awfully telling. I understand Topcat was only trying to make the game more mature, but making everyone - even little kids, even Chrono's mom, even Frog who is supposed to sound polite and formal - talk like a Black Lagoon character is not the way to do that.

Assuming the swearing is supposed to be "funny", it fails in that aspect as well. As I've mentioned, gratuitous profanity is not in itself humorous, and it frankly irritates me that so many people think it is.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 07, 2013, 08:41:34 pm
A few swears used sparingly can make something slightly more humorous. For example, Mom's second line: "Move your ass, lazy boy!". In my opinion, that's fine, as long as every other string of dialogue doesn't have a curse word in it.

I can't give any more examples because I didn't go past the first battle due to its difficulty.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Jazz on March 08, 2013, 03:15:34 am
Fuck this hack, the context of each joke is shitty.

Some like to see some swear words, some like a lot of them. I myself - don't really care. Just like your jokes, pick the right place and time - This isn't the forum for this type of hack. But anyway, like any risk - many will appose, many will sit on the fence, and few will appreciate. I like the fence with this one.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Zynk on March 08, 2013, 03:54:29 am
***der hacks is the place for that.

Welp we do have Badderhacks-type of hacks here, so no use whining.

Fuck this hack, the context of each joke is shitty.  ::)

Some like to see some swear words, some like a lot of them. I myself - don't really care. Just like your jokes, pick the right place and time - This isn't the forum for this type of hack. But anyway, like any risk - many will appose, many will sit on the fence, and few will appreciate. I like the fence with this one.

I pressume you're sitting on a picket fence or a barbed-wire fence?  :laugh:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Zetshiro on March 08, 2013, 04:35:35 am
I do appreciate the work you put into this hack, and I hope the comments here don't put you off. It's always good to keep on going, and to improve yourself--take the comments as constructive. Spooniest mentioned dissonance with the flow of the script, which I can definitely agree with. :)

If not for the crude jokes and the increased difficulty, this would probably be a decent hack. But those two things ruin it.

Heh, but isn't that...like, the main point of the hack? :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: KaioShin on March 08, 2013, 04:58:00 am
The description says what the hack contains. No one forces you to play it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: TheZunar123 on March 08, 2013, 06:56:24 pm
Heh, but isn't that...like, the main point of the hack? :P
In a way, yes, but there were also new weapons added that you get from enemies. If that were a patch on it's own, it would be great.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: topcat on March 09, 2013, 05:09:39 pm
Lmao!

ok, so it seems that this has not been too well recieved. :(

To start, commenting on the difficulty:
In the beginning, grind to get the rusty blade from melchoir. It has status effects that eliminate the difficulty and keep it a good weapon option through much of the game. Also, the avian chaos drops a seraph song that ups your pwr peramater by 6, as well as recovers 5mp and start you with a full battle guage at the beginning of a battle. Explore a little and want to get that new sword at the beginning, and those whiney... i mean criticisms become invalid. We have all likely play CT so many times that we fall into a mechanical pattern of how we do so, this is meant to break that cycle just a little bit. sorry if it's "work" to play this game with a new attitude.

for the dialogue:
as it was put here, there may have been a bit much, for some. i like cuss words, or swears if you come from a higher income bracket. some things did not flow as well as others. that is regrettable, but i stand by it.
As for Taban saying something about Lucas inventions, that is a glitch in the text editor. A few more areas have that, where a text box is replaces with another text box, and there is nothing that can be done. I caught a few & listed them in the readme, this one I missed.
Any text/spelling/grammer errors, well nobody is perfect & i caught as many as i could. I'm very done with this project & being the most tedius part of it, the text is what it is.

I appreciate the positive sentiments & the support where they came in. I can and will make another patch with the games original dialogue but the items and parameters will be changed. If the game comes across as too difficult, then play better! The updated weapons and armor make it necessary, or the game would be entirely too easy. In the clean version, there will again, be NO changes in dialogue so nobody will refer to the hidden items.

And as for instructions, i applied the patch to a headered rom and had no problems. If anybody followed common knowledge that is available to be read in getting started areas, they should be fine. I didnt think that there would be a neccessity, my bad... I will note that someone had trouble applying the patch & try to remember to mention aplying it to an unheadered rom.

That covers about everything, I think. I will put up a hack minus text edits soonish. The items alone do warrent a hack and can be shared with those that dont like my potty mouth.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: justin3009 on March 09, 2013, 06:31:17 pm
Would there be a possibility of just releasing the difficulty/item changes and what not as a separate patch?  That itself is actually pretty worth of being noted.  There are a lot of difficulty patches but I don't really think I've seen one that added/modified items to an extent.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2013, 07:13:08 pm
But do change the references to lemonade/soda back into beer, if possible. I'd play that.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Chrono Trigger - Envy Hack
Post by: topcat on March 09, 2013, 07:50:22 pm
It is not likely that I will be willing to go back into the text editor and do anything with it again. That was the most tedious aspect of the project, and it inserts text bugs into the game. If I find some motivation, then maybe...

I will weigh all of this out in my head & move forward from there. At the very least I will make a patch w/ the difficulty and item changes.

*** I went to reload the original game text into the hack, as to keep the items and perameters without the "offensive" shit in it. It became unplayable, freezing right away. Due to the nature of these programs, text requiring a header and editor companion removing it, I will not be able to make any changes without redoing everything. As I am not willing to do that, there will not be any edits or other releases. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you want to check out the items, then deal with a mind unlike your own and suffer through my vulgarity.***
This hack is what it is.