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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Tomato on September 11, 2011, 08:49:13 am

Title: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 11, 2011, 08:49:13 am
Many orbits around the sun ago I started comparing Mother 2 and EarthBound and seeing how the game was localized. I actually FINALLY finished that a little while ago here: http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/ (http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/) There's a ton of stuff, so it'll require like a full afternoon of time to read through  ;)

(http://earthboundcentral.com/image/m2eb/winters/octostatue.png)

Anyway, since I'm a crazy guy I immediately started wanting to do the same with other games, so I just went through the original Super Mario Bros. in the same way and posted it here: http://matotree.com/localization/smb/ (http://matotree.com/localization/smb/)

(http://matotree.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mariopreview.jpg)

I didn't think there'd be much to write about first, but it actually turned out pretty interesting.

Right now I'm working on one for the first Zelda game, one quick question I have is this - does anyone know the differences between the 1.0 FDS version of Zelda and the 1.1 version? I've been playing the 1.0 version, but I haven't taken a look at the 1.1 yet.

Also, any suggestions for other games that might've had interesting localizations? Right now I want to avoid super-long games like EarthBound, so I'm mostly sticking with NES and early Super NES games. But two later games I definitely want to take a look at later on are Gitaroo Man and Symphony of the Night  :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Gideon Zhi on September 11, 2011, 09:38:40 am
I can already pinpoint most of the differences for you, but you might want to take a look at Cybernator (U)/Assault Suits Valken (J). Changes abound here - several conversations were removed from the game, character portraits disappeared, and once whole cutscene in the final level was slashed outright.

There's also The Rad Project. (http://www.flammie.net/vse/things/rad/index.htm)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on September 11, 2011, 01:58:45 pm
I like seeing these differences.  The Cutting Room Floor has some localization differences recorded in their wiki pages.

Almost all of the localized Fire Emblems have had tweaks and changes to gameplay and story mechanics in some way when they're brought over.  You won't notice them unless you played the original Japanese version first.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Pennywise on September 11, 2011, 02:40:04 pm
One only need to look into the NES/SNES era for Nintendo to see just how bad things were. If they didn't mess up the translation, they messed up something else.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on September 11, 2011, 03:09:15 pm
I don't think there was any difference in the SMB localisation as the ROM says Super Mario Bros. (JU) which means the exact same data was in the japanese and american cartridges. European version was fixed for 50 Hz PAL consoles, and the game plays faster (because they speeded it up more than 6/5).

Games with the most differences include Castlevania III, IV, Dragon Quest/Warrior I and II, Adventure of Bayou Billy / Gun Sight and possibly some others.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spooniest on September 11, 2011, 03:12:47 pm
Anybody remember the awful chop job on the Ranma 1/2 fighting game on the Snes? They released it here as "Street Combat" or something, and it was God-awful. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmNR0AlRFs0)

It's not that the game it was based on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri7Tf1Cj0GQ&feature=related) was that great of a fighting game, but man were they paranoid about doing anything anime-related in the west. Guhh.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Pennywise on September 11, 2011, 04:01:11 pm
Pretty sure that sort of thing had more to do with rights issues and/or not wanting to pay for them.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 11, 2011, 04:19:22 pm
I don't think there was any difference in the SMB localisation as the ROM says Super Mario Bros. (JU) which means the exact same data was in the japanese and american cartridges.

Yep, I mention that on my site, I was actually pleasantly surprised how much there was still to talk about though.

There's also The Rad Project. (http://www.flammie.net/vse/things/rad/index.htm)

Oh yeah, definitely gotta include a link to that somewhere!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on September 11, 2011, 05:05:46 pm
Another good project to take up one day might be to list the differences between Dragon Quest and Dragon Warrior, although I believe a couple of people have already done something similar for it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: SargeSmash on September 11, 2011, 11:44:48 pm
Dude, Totally Rad is most excellent.  For sure.

I have to admit, that's a much more interesting localization.  And while it may not have been completely received as lampooning the surfer-dude culture at the time, it's absolutely hilarious to read now.  And the gist of the story is communicated as well, such as it is, so I'd mark this up as a win on all fronts.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on September 12, 2011, 07:16:53 pm
Yeah. The English script is actually pretty good (love the add-ins, like the gag where the girl is apparently learning magic by replicating a death-defying Houdini escape), though I have to say the art suffers. It's not that I prefer the anime-style stuff on principle or anything, but the "American-looking" characters are just freakin' ugly as hell. (And Zebediah Pong is creepy at any speed.)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Panzer88 on September 13, 2011, 04:27:14 pm
This is why I've taken to just always playing the Japanese version of non RPG games for the NES/SNES. Not because I'm some sort of weeabo or otaku, but because I'm just tired of playing games through a filter.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spinner 8 on September 27, 2011, 11:59:19 pm
Anyway, since I'm a crazy guy I immediately started wanting to do the same with other games, so I just went through the original Super Mario Bros. in the same way and posted it here: http://matotree.com/localization/smb/ (http://matotree.com/localization/smb/)

I kind of forgot to say anything when you first put this out, but I read through it all and I love it. Going into it I didn't think there would be much to it, but it's so great that you went into comparing the manuals and the Disk System version and even that awesome Tennis trick.  I hope you do many many more articles, and please continue to write a bunch of title tags. :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 10, 2012, 03:01:43 pm
(http://matotree.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/lolzelda.png)

For those who are interested, my Zelda comparison is up!

http://matotree.com/localization/zelda/
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on August 10, 2012, 04:35:52 pm
Oh, snap! I'll have to check this out later. If it makes you feel good, Tomato, I also had a blast going through you Earthbound one.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Validus on August 10, 2012, 05:19:44 pm
thank you brotha man!
Title: .
Post by: Chpexo on August 10, 2012, 05:56:30 pm
.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Validus on August 10, 2012, 07:32:41 pm
I prefer the Zelda 1 remake for SNES

the 3rd quest
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 10, 2012, 10:28:03 pm
As to the changed credits, it was just normal for developers to use fake names in the credits in those times. (don't know if it was a limitation by Nintendo for some reason, though. We weren't too far past the Atari "no credits at all permitted" days.
The composer in the original Mega Man games was credited as "Yukichan's Papa", even though I heard the composer was actually a woman.

Wasn't "tart" like '30s slang for "whore" (such as in Of Mice and Men?)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 11, 2012, 04:29:38 am
That was an interesting read.

I really wonder what they meant by "Retry" on the Game Over screen. "Retry" would normally be synonymous with "Continue", but I think here they messed up and meant "Retreat" or maybe "Retire".
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 11, 2012, 08:58:05 am
I read you wanted a higher quality Legend of Zelda NES boss cry. (http://www.mediafire.com/?pbnjx1vpsbunfci)

Ooh, thanks! I just put it up, it sounds so much better than the one I had  :thumbsup:

KingMike: I almost e-mailed you the other day to see if you'd be up for throwing an English translation onto the FDS version of Zelda. Seems kinda pointless, but if you ever get the itch to do it let me know!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 11, 2012, 12:19:52 pm
I had thought maybe Retry could mean to "try again with a different game." But then again, the Japanese text next to the SAVE command is "End", so I'm not sure what they're thinking.
From what I understand of the "hold Reset" issue, it is because the mapper isn't designed to handle a sudden power on/off state, which could cause unwanted writes to the save RAM, corrupting the save files.
I think some of the later mappers might write-protection.
According to this site (http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=468), "Revision A" US carts use the MMC1B variant, which according to NESDev, is supposed to allow the RAM to be disabled. (and the Famicom version uses the MMC1B variant)
Then again, Zelda probably doesn't disable the SRAM because it uses it to store parts of the game program (likely because of the memory map. While the FDS had PRG-RAM from $6000-DFFF, carts PRG-ROM uses addresses $8000-FFFF. So, by storing code in the SRAM, they can have code in the $6000-7FFF region and not have to change everything in the code that references those addresses.

Everything in Zelda is probably in katakana because in VRAM there is only space for the katakana and English characters. The katakana tiles were simply blanked out in the English version. I had once made a hack to use those unused tiles for a VWF but I don't think I finished it and I can't remember how far I got.

Retranslating Zelda? That's an idea I'll have to think about.

Do you know of the FDS Zelda prototype that is spreading around? Though I guess much of that has already been documented, and I'm not sure if it would fit within the goal of your article.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 11, 2012, 01:07:00 pm
Yeah, I heard about the prototype a while back but never really looked at it much. It might be an interesting thing to mention on the misc. page but I'm honestly all Zeldaed out right now  :P

EDIT: Here's what I'm working on next, incidentally.

(http://matotree.com/misc/titlescreens.png)

It's already been analyzed and ported to death, but it's such a dear game to me that I gotta do it. Plus I first played it this time 20 years ago...

Holy crap 20 years  :o
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on August 11, 2012, 01:53:47 pm
Makes me feel old, too.

what am i doing with my life
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 11, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
There were also two revisions of each of the Japanese and US versions.
The differences between them are probably mentioned in lots of places. But from what I heard the only difference between JP 1.0 (extremely rare) and JP 1.1 (extremely common) is that it fixed one obscure bug that could cause moon enemies to appear underground.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 11, 2012, 02:48:08 pm
Whoa that sounds cool, I'll try to get that to happen in my run  8)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 11, 2012, 06:51:13 pm
Yeah, I heard about the prototype a while back but never really looked at it much. It might be an interesting thing to mention on the misc. page but I'm honestly all Zeldaed out right now  :P

EDIT: Here's what I'm working on next, incidentally.

(http://matotree.com/misc/titlescreens.png)

It's already been analyzed and ported to death, but it's such a dear game to me that I gotta do it. Plus I first played it this time 20 years ago...

Holy crap 20 years  :o
If you need any help on this, I'd consider myself pretty well versed in the subject (having played through multiple versions of the game, including one in Japanese, not to mention my working on a long-term project for the game). I'd be more than willing to lend a hand, especially considering it's my favorite Final Fantasy.

Also, one of the translations you did was kinda strange:

Quote
Gibdo
A mummy man. Has supernatural strength and powerful offensive strength.

The Japanese says "Due to having considerable supernatural strength, it's attack power is quite high", or something to that effect. (なかなかの怪力・・・)

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on August 11, 2012, 07:46:27 pm
Isn't the Japanese text for "Retry" やりなおす? I think "Start Over (From the Beginning)" might be what they were going for there.

Also, Tomato, if you're doing FFIV next, please make note of the fact that the DS version is the only translation to get the first line of the Mysidian prophecy right. :3 FF2 and FFIVA (and thus FFIVCC) use "One (to be) born from a dragon" when the original says "竜の口より生まれし者"; FFIVDS uses "Birthed from womb of dragon's maw."
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Zetshiro on August 11, 2012, 09:12:45 pm
Yeah, I heard about the prototype a while back but never really looked at it much. It might be an interesting thing to mention on the misc. page but I'm honestly all Zeldaed out right now  :P

EDIT: Here's what I'm working on next, incidentally.

(http://matotree.com/misc/titlescreens.png)

It's already been analyzed and ported to death, but it's such a dear game to me that I gotta do it. Plus I first played it this time 20 years ago...

Holy crap 20 years  :o

I really can't wait to read this, I loved your other game comparisons (especially Earthbound). :)

Because there's so many variations of Final Fantasy IV I imagine this is going to be quite the massive project. There's a Final Fantasy IV article on tcrf.net which covers some interesting things.

IV is definitely my favourite of the series, it was also the first true Final Fantasy I finished! Though...this was a little over a year ago... :laugh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 11, 2012, 09:55:01 pm
Whoa that sounds cool, I'll try to get that to happen in my run  8)

Would be cool, but I recall it's not something you'd be likely to accidentally do.
Something about going to one of the underground caves and then to Mt. Hobs (which you don't really need to do anymore once you passed it), if I recall right.

However, there was one kind of funny game-crashing bug in FF6 that didn't get fixed in the GBA version (S-E got most of the well-known bugs).
Spoiler:
Essentially, once you can make your own party for the first time, take Gau on a party alone, hire Shadow in Kohlingen, then use the Leap command on the Veldt to dump Gau, then try to take Shadow (alone) inside Narshe. He'll leave, leaving you with a party of nobody.
Who'd think to try that on their own? :D
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: LostTemplar on August 12, 2012, 04:30:27 am
Interesting read. Sometimes I really wonder why they change text like in a way like that (e.g. the hints).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Talbain on August 12, 2012, 05:14:08 am
what am i doing with my life
Exactly what you should be doing, I suspect.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: vivify93 on August 12, 2012, 06:28:53 am
From what I heard, the bug fixed in FFII US' version 1.1 was the fact that in version 1.0, if a battle drags on too long, casting spells will apparently freeze the game. I may be wrong, though.

The specific example I heard is using Rydia to cast Stop and Edge to steal Artemis Arrows from Karys (AKA MoonGuards, Selene Guardians, or Moonmaidens.) for Rosa, and then at some point, after you command Rydia to cast Stop and the casting duration is over, the summoner walks forward, raises her arms, and the game hangs. The music purportedly still plays, but the animation for Stop never comes.

Final Fantasy IV: The Spell that Never Came!!!

:laugh:

As far as I know, this bug was fixed in all ports and remakes.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 12, 2012, 06:49:01 am
Quote
The music purportedly still plays,
The sound is handled by a different CPU so even if the main CPU completely crashes the sound will still be intact, as opposed to, say, the NES where if a game crashes the sound stops on the note it was playing.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: MontyMole on August 12, 2012, 08:40:55 am
Quote
Wasn't "tart" like '30s slang for "whore" (such as in Of Mice and Men?)
Its Brit slang for whore as well. 
We never got FF4 till the playstation era so that point is moot.  We will check out the Zelda lets compare though.
   
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 12, 2012, 09:58:25 am
If you need any help on this, I'd consider myself pretty well versed in the subject (having played through multiple versions of the game, including one in Japanese, not to mention my working on a long-term project for the game). I'd be more than willing to lend a hand, especially considering it's my favorite Final Fantasy.

You sound like you're my clone! I'll definitely need help - what I'm planning on doing is updating things bit by bit like my old EarthBound comparisons, so if I miss anything or get anything wrong don't hesitate to let me know.

A couple questions I have right now:

- I'm assuming Easy Type came first, then the English version, is this the case? I haven't really looked into it yet.
- Is there something somewhere that suggests her name should be Lydia and not Rydia? I seem to recall some discussion about that on these boards a while back.
- Anything you recommend I look out for especially? By this I mean stuff that most people might not think to do, like revisit an old town at a certain point, stuff like that.

Quote
Also, one of the translations you did was kinda strange:

The Japanese says "Due to having considerable supernatural strength, it's attack power is quite high", or something to that effect. (なかなかの怪力・・・)

Ooh, you're absolutely right, thanks!

please make note of the fact that the DS version is the only translation to get the first line of the Mysidian prophecy right. :3 FF2 and FFIVA (and thus FFIVCC) use "One (to be) born from a dragon" when the original says "竜の口より生まれし者"; FFIVDS uses "Birthed from womb of dragon's maw."

Haha, I remember your many rants about the legend, so no worries there. I'm not actually sure what the problems are since I haven't compared them - is the fact the translation leaves out the mouth part the main problem? I remember thinking the legend sounded really weird and dumb when I first played it back in the day, though.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 12, 2012, 11:09:44 am
According to GameFAQs, EasyType was released on October 29, 1991.
According to the notes I have (which I THINK was Square's US Patent & Trademark Office), the US release was a day later. But that could be wrong. If that was there, it would be the "first use in commerce" which I guess doesn't necessarily mean release date.)
GameFAQs claims the US version was released November 23. (though the 10/30 date makes more sense as it was a Wednesday, 11/23 would have been a Saturday. Who releases games on a Saturday? :P

(USPTO filings would also suggest FF Adventure was released on 10/23 (exactly one week earlier) and FFLII on the following Tuesday (11/5).)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 12, 2012, 11:55:44 am
According to GameFAQs, EasyType was released on October 29, 1991.
According to the notes I have (which I THINK was Square's US Patent & Trademark Office), the US release was a day later. But that could be wrong. If that was there, it would be the "first use in commerce" which I guess doesn't necessarily mean release date.)
GameFAQs claims the US version was released November 23. (though the 10/30 date makes more sense as it was a Wednesday, 11/23 would have been a Saturday. Who releases games on a Saturday? :P
Also... wouldn't that have been the post-Thanksgiving weekend, which would be an even stranger time to release a game in the US?)
(USPTO filings would also suggest FF Adventure was released on 10/23 (exactly one week earlier) and FFLII on the following Tuesday (11/5).)
According to the Japanese wiki:

FFIV: 7/19/91
EasyType: 10/29/91
FF2US: 11/01/91
PSX: 3/21/97
FF Chronicles: 6/29/01
Wonderswan: 3/28/02
GBA (U): 12/12/05
GBA(j): 12/15/05
DS: 12/20/07
DS(U): 7/22/08
Wii VC: 8/4/09
NTT Cell Phones: 10/5/09
au EZ App (BREW): 12/10/09
Softbank App: 1/13/10
PSP: 3/24/11
PSP(U): 4/19/11
PSN: 6/27/12

A couple questions I have right now:

- I'm assuming Easy Type came first, then the English version, is this the case? I haven't really looked into it yet.
- Is there something somewhere that suggests her name should be Lydia and not Rydia? I seem to recall some discussion about that on these boards a while back.
- Anything you recommend I look out for especially? By this I mean stuff that most people might not think to do, like revisit an old town at a certain point, stuff like that.

It did. And I assume that the US version was based on Easy Type. Both EasyType AND the US version are the only versions to have the extra dialogue in the intro scene revolving around the crystal. Not to mention, a few of the changes made for EasyType made it over to the US version as well. Like the idea of having one item for healing status effects instead of a dozen. And the idea to take a lot of the commands out (in fact the US version took it a bit further, and took out even MORE. EasyType only took out, according to the wiki, "commands that were hard to understand or hard to use", like Prayer, Build Up, Endure, Fake Tears, etc. They left in Darkness, for example. But the US version snatched it out, as I assume you know).

As far as stuff to look out for? Not much of the text changes in places upon a second run through that I can remember, but it has been a few years since I ran through the game.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on August 12, 2012, 07:22:37 pm
Exactly what you should be doing, I suspect.
̛let me enjoy my quarter life crisis dammit
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Talbain on August 12, 2012, 08:19:19 pm
̛let me enjoy my quarter life crisis dammit
Get hipster shades and snort coke off the back of a brazilian monkey, discovering that the monkey's DNA was laced with AIDS and now the only way to survive is to fight through the Thunderdome of heartwarming movie scenes about chemotherapy and tough love survival.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on August 14, 2012, 12:51:04 am
Wow, um, okay.  :o

Back on topic, I found the SMB comparison fascinating. I had no idea most of the enemy names were changed. Now the "Nok Nok Shell" from Super Mario RPG finally makes sense.

Regarding the use of katakana in games over hiragana, I remember hearing that katakana is easier to program in because it's "pointy," as opposed to hiragana which tends to be curvier. I have no proof of this, though.

I was also kind of surprised to find out that English text was used a lot in older NES games. It makes sense, though, and in fact I remember helping translate an ending screen for an NES game that was romanized Japanese (Japanese in English characters). That was a bitch to translate.  :'(

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the next comparison, because these are super neat. Keep up the good work. :D
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on August 14, 2012, 08:28:00 am
I remember helping translate an ending screen for an NES game that was romanized Japanese (Japanese in English characters). That was a bitch to translate.  :'(

Oh god, I can't stand that. Reading romanized Japanese is like your mind getting raped by... things. How did you make sense of anything? By rewriting it in kana?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 14, 2012, 08:41:12 am
Anyway, I look forward to seeing the next comparison, because these are super neat. Keep up the good work. :D

Glad you liked it!

I've actually started the next one: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/

(http://matotree.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ff4.jpg)

What I have up is a little rough around the edges but I'm sure it'll improve as I go on. There's just so much to talk about  :o
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: LostTemplar on August 14, 2012, 08:43:15 am
Oh god, I can't stand that. Reading romanized Japanese is like your mind getting raped by... things. How did you make sense of anything? By rewriting it in kana?

It can get confusing because it's so uncommon (your brain isn't accostumed to reading it), but it's not that much worse than kana-only in my opinion. I can understand it just fine, albeit slower than texts in kanji/kana.

EDIT: I find it really interesting that FFIVET also simplified its Japanese to appeal to a younger audience, especially because you can see what Japanese adults consider "difficult words".
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on August 14, 2012, 09:39:27 am
Interesting. And it's not even like the original contained kanji. Both Japanese versions seem strictly in kana.

Edit: I said something to effect that the original didn't contain kana. *facepalm*
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 14, 2012, 11:40:11 am
Definitely interesting. I knew that the items and whatnot had changed a bit for younger audiences, and a few items were altered. I had no idea that the scripts were slightly different.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on August 14, 2012, 03:48:34 pm
I'd throw in the GBA translation, too, frankly; if only because it has kanji to clarify matters. (Or the PSP version, where the Kanji are actually readable...)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on August 14, 2012, 05:30:12 pm
Oh god, I can't stand that. Reading romanized Japanese is like your mind getting raped by... things. How did you make sense of anything? By rewriting it in kana?

I wrote it out in kana first, then changed it to kanji where necesssary, and then translated it.

Most of the time translating from kana isn't that difficult for me (hence my silly, self-given title of "Hiragana Queen,") but there was something about putting the English characters back into kana ("un-romanizing" I guess) that hurt my brain. The text wasn't untranslatable or anything, just a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 18, 2012, 06:35:31 pm
(http://matotree.com/media/final-fantasy-iv/baron/fatchocobo.png)

Got a new page up for the FFIV/Easy Type/II comparison: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/baron/

Most of it is probably old news for most people who hang out around ROM hacking circles, but maybe there's something inside that wall of text you never knew before :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on August 18, 2012, 09:01:17 pm
The Fat Chocobo’s line in Japanese reminds me of the fat kid’s catchphrase from Little Giants (“You raaaang?”).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 18, 2012, 10:31:23 pm
I don't remember the exact line, but I do recall there was one in Baron Castle that in the GBA version used the words "something", "awful" and "goons" in the same sentence that was a pretty clear in-joke to something. ;)

(and can't be the only one to see the line if FF6 Advance about "some people spell Kefka with two C's" and thought "wow! The official translators PWNED Sky Render!" :D )
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 18, 2012, 11:48:00 pm
While I was checking stuff earlier today I was surprised there weren't as many FFIV translation patches as I seemed to remember. I seem to recall there being quite a lot back in the day, I guess the J2E one overshadowed them. I thought there'd been a new translation project since that patch too, maybe I was thinking of the FFVI retranslation though.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 18, 2012, 11:49:33 pm
While I was checking stuff earlier today I was surprised there weren't as many FFIV translation patches as I seemed to remember. I seem to recall there being quite a lot back in the day, I guess the J2E one overshadowed them. I thought there'd been a new translation project since that patch too, maybe I was thinking of the FFVI retranslation though.
I'm working on a new patch, but it's not done yet. It'll blow the J2E one out of the water. :D

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 19, 2012, 02:01:34 am
While I was checking stuff earlier today I was surprised there weren't as many FFIV translation patches as I seemed to remember. I seem to recall there being quite a lot back in the day, I guess the J2E one overshadowed them. I thought there'd been a new translation project since that patch too, maybe I was thinking of the FFVI retranslation though.

There were a few in the GoodSNES set. But I don't think the authors are known, and we're that great anyways.
I guess one of them is known... by Ryusui(?) as the "We R Red Wings" patch. :P
And another one is the FF2 script crappily inserted into FF4 (don't need to play farther than the intro to see bad line breaks and an incomplete font hack). Wouldn't mention it except some idiot on ebay has recently decided to sell FF4 carts with that shitty hack installed (but at least he's kind of enough to include the original ROM chip so I guess you could put it back in maybe if you have soldering skills.)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on August 19, 2012, 07:15:16 am
"Heal-All Medicine" is a bit cumbersome, frankly; I would hope that you'd have gone with 'Panacea' or 'Remedy' were you translating it for real rather than for this comparison. ;)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 19, 2012, 07:35:25 am
Quote from: DarknessSavior
I'm working on a new patch, but it's not done yet. It'll blow the J2E one out of the water. :D

Say, I dunno how much of a pain it'd be, but how hard would it be to make text dumps of things like enemy names, item names, technique names, etc. from all three games? I was planning to do it someday myself but if you already have the know-how and/or have already done it it'd save me a lot of time.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on August 19, 2012, 02:33:18 pm
I don't know about the SNES version, but I did a guide for FF4 Advance (http://kumiho.aerdan.org/translations/ff4.html). I fully intend to do the DS (or PSP) release as soon as I can find a resource for 'em.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 19, 2012, 04:27:12 pm
Whoa, cool!

While browsing the list I was curious about Golbez's name - should it be "Golbeza" or "Golbeze"? The kana suggests "a" but I seem to remember the "e" version being used a lot back in the flurry of FFIV retranslation projects. I never paid much attention though so I might be wrong or maybe it's something more well-versed fans know.

August 19, 2012, 06:27:22 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
(Oops, it's a double post but go ahead and merge this with my last one if it breaks some sort of rule.)

(http://matotree.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/rydia.png)

I've updated with a look at Mist this time: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/mist/

Nothing too much this time, but it's interesting to see some of the subtle changes between all three versions even for some minor stuff.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on August 19, 2012, 06:51:28 pm
Internet sleuths have deemed it to be a corruption of “Golubaeser”, i.e. from “Golubaes”, itself something of a bad transliteration or transcription job dating back to the Age of Intractable and/or Non-Existent Transliteration; at any rate, the place is still called Golubac to this day (where the ‘c’ is pronounced ‘ts’). You can find old literature also refer to it as “Golubacz” under the convention that also gives us the spelling “czar” (the ‘aes’ spelling quite possibly came about from some editor seeing this spelling and thinking he knew better), “Golubaz” under the convention of “German uses those for ‘ts’ sounds, right?”, and most probably some other variants. Assuming this is correct, it refers to a nasty (perhaps mythical) sort of insect, the research of which I shall leave to those better versed in mythology and the languages of that region.

So, uh, I guess there’s no really right answer since everything is based on layers of mistakes, but I’ve seen at least one bit of official merch strongly implying that ‘Golbeza’ is the intended romanization (track listing of Piano Collections Final Fantasy IV). I suppose you would see it in a copy of the easy sheet music (DOREMI Music Publishing) if you had it; that’s an easy place to find several other intended romanizations for some old games (I believe it’s because these piano books were done before actual translations were ever considered—not all of them provide English/Engrish titles, though). Too bad I’ve never gotten my mitts on a copy :laugh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on August 19, 2012, 06:56:16 pm
According to his JP Bestiary, ゴルベーザ -- possibly Golbelze or Gorbelze? Apparently I typoed when I transcribed his bestiary entry.

(EDIT: The translation guide has been updated. Changes will be live within 10 minutes of now.)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: curses on August 19, 2012, 08:48:43 pm
Quote
I've updated with a look at Mist this time: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/mist/

Cool, I had never heard of the Mistwalker glitch before! I thought I knew everything about this game, too!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 19, 2012, 10:21:00 pm
Cool, I had never heard of the Mistwalker glitch before! I thought I knew everything about this game, too!
I've never heard of it either.

I wonder what happens if you continue playing with Kain in your party when the party would normally get full (after you revive Rosa). Would the game just glitch out, or would it get rid of Kain/Rosa? XD

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 19, 2012, 10:29:24 pm
I don't remember but I seem to recall that Tellah won't appear until you've done the event in Mist, so it glitches up at some point around meeting Tellah. I do know that you can use the trick to at least get into Mist's shops and buy some super strong equipment for so early in the game.

August 20, 2012, 05:45:21 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Speaking of glitches, I ran across this one that a Japanese fan figured out just last month. It's seriously jaw-dropping:

http://youtu.be/aiOfZCWWB2I

I didn't have the time or energy to subtitle the video but I did make a super-duper-quick translation of the text here:

http://matotree.com/2012/08/final-fantasy-iv-the-legendary-64-room-levels-bug/
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on August 20, 2012, 08:34:25 pm
I do recall hearing it was kind of an accomplishment when J2E got the battle message window to print 2 lines without glitching up.
The Eblan battle cutscene was pretty dramatic but it was also pretty annoying to have to read it one one-line text box at a time. :P
Spoiler:
I can't be the only one to continue to beat up Edge's dying mutated parents due to boredom of waiting for the text to finishing scrolling by, can I? :D
So... I guess we should appreciate that the battle dialogue was concise?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: curses on August 21, 2012, 09:40:44 am
Speaking of glitches, I ran across this one that a Japanese fan figured out just last month. It's seriously jaw-dropping:

http://youtu.be/aiOfZCWWB2I

I didn't have the time or energy to subtitle the video but I did make a super-duper-quick translation of the text here:

http://matotree.com/2012/08/final-fantasy-iv-the-legendary-64-room-levels-bug/

Both the video and your translation are cool! I remember hearing about this glitch in 1992!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 21, 2012, 12:14:42 pm
I had the glitch happen to me back in the day and I wound up having to start completely over. Whenever I'd go through a door it'd glitch out and take me to the top left corner of Baron and I couldn't get out. I remember recording it on a VHS tape too, it was that traumatic and weird.

Anyway, last night I decided to try to plan out all the pages I'm gonna have to make. It's been a few years since I last played a version of FFIV to the end so let me know if I got some of the ordering wrong or if I should do things in a different order. I always get confused by the order of events after leaving the underworld for the first time.

Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 24, 2012, 12:54:19 pm
Just to mention it, Tomato's up to the Watery Pass now.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 24, 2012, 01:19:32 pm
Yep, the bard's next! Gotta think of a good way to present it  8)

August 27, 2012, 08:46:39 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I don't know if this is already known or not, but yesterday I stumbled upon an interview that suggests the canceled Final Fantasy IV for the Famicom was actually 80% or so done and not just at the initial concept stage: http://matotree.com/2012/08/final-fantasy-iv-for-the-famicom-was-80-complete/
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 27, 2012, 12:57:57 pm
Tomato's up to Damcyan now.

Also, Tomato:

- Gilbert was changed to Edward because of space limitations. Same reason Golbeza was renamed Golbez. PC names are limited to six characters in the coding of the game.
- Also, you keep mentioning the English names in Japanese manuals. Like Gilbart. There's others that are weird too. Kain is Cain in some Japanese text. Rydia is Lydia. And Theodore from the sequel was spelled Ceodore in the manuals and whatnot, so SE kept it that way. >_>

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 27, 2012, 02:00:20 pm
Yep, the bard's next! Gotta think of a good way to present it  8)

August 27, 2012, 08:46:39 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I don't know if this is already known or not, but yesterday I stumbled upon an interview that suggests the canceled Final Fantasy IV for the Famicom was actually 80% or so done and not just at the initial concept stage: http://matotree.com/2012/08/final-fantasy-iv-for-the-famicom-was-80-complete/

My guess is that the second interview is a fake. Why would Sakaguchi lie in his former interview ? Japanese people don't lie that easily.

EDIT : Tom, your work is amazing ! You probably spent hours comparing the versions, and apparently you plan to do it until the end of the game ! That's sure a lot of work !

Oh and you forgot to go see Tellah before talking to Rosa in Kaipo, where he says you can't pass, but this is probably not important.

PS : Thank you for explaining the YES / NO issue. I now understand why some games (BOF2...) got it wrong at some places, where you would think it would be hard to mess this up.

One last difference I don't think you mentionned : You said the boxes for locations were made larger for the US version, but in fact the regular textboxes were also made slightly larger. If you look at the Japanese versions, there is a full tile of the background on the right and on the left. In the US vesion, there is only a half-tile on each side. By the way on J2e's version, there is nothing left at all - the text box takes up all the width of the screen. This makes the left and right borders invisible when I run it on an actual SNES with my PowerPak - which is ugly and is probably the reason they left a half-tile on each border in the official translation.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 27, 2012, 04:24:24 pm
Also, Tomato:

- Gilbert was changed to Edward because of space limitations. Same reason Golbeza was renamed Golbez. PC names are limited to six characters in the coding of the game.
- Also, you keep mentioning the English names in Japanese manuals. Like Gilbart. There's others that are weird too. Kain is Cain in some Japanese text. Rydia is Lydia. And Theodore from the sequel was spelled Ceodore in the manuals and whatnot, so SE kept it that way. >_>

Yeah, I pondered about the space limit thing, that's the only explanation I can come up with. I hadn't considered that was why Golbez had his name changed.

I'm not sure what you mean about the manual thing - I pointed out "Gilbart" and how it showed up much later than the original manual. I actually did go back and mention how "Cain" is in the manual too. Are you referring to how their names wound up in the After Years and such? I haven't seen Lydia anywhere, can you point me to it? I've often wondered about that too.

August 27, 2012, 04:30:16 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh and you forgot to go see Tellah before talking to Rosa in Kaipo, where he says you can't pass, but this is probably not important.

I can't remember if I tried this or not, but I'll give it a look anyway. I've been archiving all the save files and screenshots for people to use/reference in the future for their own stuff.

Quote
One last difference I don't think you mentionned : You said the boxes for locations were made larger for the US version, but in fact the regular textboxes were also made slightly larger.

Ha, you're right! I r blind  :-[ I'll add a mention about that somewhere.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 27, 2012, 05:51:56 pm
I honestly don't remember where the Lydia thing was from. Gemini posted a link to it when we were having an argument about how Kain/Rydia was supposed to be spelled.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 29, 2012, 04:51:31 pm
Would anyone here know where I can get a text dump of FF2 SNES? Every once in a while I miss a line but don't want to have to redo 30+ minutes of playing just to see it and find out it's not important.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: mz on August 29, 2012, 05:11:15 pm
Here's one: http://notserious.info/ff4/script/index.html (http://notserious.info/ff4/script/index.html)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 29, 2012, 05:16:24 pm
Thanks, that'll definitely be useful.

I was hoping for a full text dump, since a lot of the lines I'm looking for aren't key story scene lines - for instance right now I'm stuck because I forgot to talk to the guards in front of the king's room after the king has agreed to lend the party a ship.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 29, 2012, 09:06:21 pm
Tomato:

On the first section of the Antlion Cave thing, you've got three pictures of Cecil getting a chest with a harp in it. You mention the contents of some treasure chests in the area, but not that one. And it's interesting because in FFIV it's "Lamia Harp", in ET it's "Strange Harp" and in FF2US it's "Charm Harp".

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 29, 2012, 10:55:13 pm
Yeah, in the secret hover text I mention that I was going to talk about the harp names but then decided to save that discussion for a separate page  :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 29, 2012, 11:37:15 pm
Yeah, in the secret hover text I mention that I was going to talk about the harp names but then decided to save that discussion for a separate page  :P
I hate you. I didn't know there was hovertext. T_T;

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: curses on August 30, 2012, 12:31:37 am
I hate you. I didn't know there was hovertext. T_T;

Then you'll also hate that Tomato went back and made some minor edits to one of the recent pages. It was luck that I happened to notice it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 30, 2012, 05:07:31 am
@Tom : You should go to good old zohar.net and go to savestates -> SNES SRM -> Final Fantasy 4J, (direct link if it works (http://www.zophar.net/savestates/snes/final-fantasy-4j.html)) and download the 5th save (the 2nd last one), and use slot 2, it's on Fabul after the war but before taking the ship.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 30, 2012, 07:56:34 am
Cool, thanks. I need it with FF2 (I saw it in the Japanese versions) but maybe the save will still be semi-compatible.

And yes, I've gone back and added a few small things over the past couple of weeks. And the secret hover text has always been a staple of my comparison sites :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on August 30, 2012, 10:10:07 am
No rush, but I'm dying to see the actual translation when you get back to Baron. I was playing the re-translation recently. Complain the original translation was butchered and then do that to it...

Unfortunately it was with this game that I ultimately decided this genre wasn't for me, but I'm still interested to see what the actual text reads at that point.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 30, 2012, 11:12:37 am
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that scene too. I wish I knew where the other weird pop culture references showed up in the retranslation patch, there's supposedly a Backstreet Boys reference and something else too.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 30, 2012, 12:25:30 pm
As far I know the saves are compatible, but things like EyeDrops, Antidoes or whathever that is not present in the (U) version will be called "Dummy". It's quite funny to see.

Quote
No rush, but I'm dying to see the actual translation when you get back to Baron. I was playing the re-translation recently. Complain the original translation was butchered and then do that to it...
What are you referring too ?
And I'm no expert, but after seeing Tom's comparison, it's safe to say the official translation was definitely not butchered.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 30, 2012, 12:46:40 pm
As far I know the saves are compatible, but things like EyeDrops, Antidoes or whathever that is not present in the (U) version will be called "Dummy". It's quite funny to see.
What are you referring too ?
And I'm no expert, but after seeing Tom's comparison, it's safe to say the official translation was definitely not butchered.
It might be hard to tell, but FA was referring to how j2e handled it. They said the original was butchered. I don't think he was saying that was his opinion.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 30, 2012, 01:30:55 pm
Yeah, curses was referencing this line in the J2E re-translation:

(http://matotree.com/media/final-fantasy-iv/baron/shatner.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on August 30, 2012, 04:05:08 pm
Ah ok,
yes I understood it wasn't him who said the original translation was butchered.

Oh and this screenshot was so obviously made with an old inaccurate ZSNES emu ! How many FF4 screenshots I've seen everywhere like this... with this transparent line at the bottom of textboxes. How can people miss this ?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 30, 2012, 06:01:31 pm
I think when the patch was made, it looked fine in emulators at the time. But as emulation improved it turned out that the patch didn't work quite right. That's been the case for many old patches, actually.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 30, 2012, 08:43:16 pm
I think when the patch was made, it looked fine in emulators at the time. But as emulation improved it turned out that the patch didn't work quite right. That's been the case for many old patches, actually.
The reason that happens is because older versions of ZSNES have hacks built in for particular games to make them work better. The latest version of ZSNES takes those hacks out, so it exposes some of the problems in the coding of ZSNES, and the errors that those problems cause. Like that one.

Also, Tomato: you should go back and include the PSX translation too. It's updated, has a proportional font, and even does some interesting changes like Lit -> Bolt. Though, IIRC, they call Cecil a "Knight" in the menus.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 30, 2012, 10:32:13 pm
To be honest I don't have much experience emulating PSX games, plus it's already a ton of work doing these three games alone. Well, that, and I wanted to compare the original releases. But now that you've planted the idea in my mind it would be interesting to compare the SNES and PSX one as a project of its own.

Actually, that should be pretty easy for anyone to do, really - don't even need to know Japanese!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on August 31, 2012, 12:55:45 am
To be honest I don't have much experience emulating PSX games, plus it's already a ton of work doing these three games alone. Well, that, and I wanted to compare the original releases. But now that you've planted the idea in my mind it would be interesting to compare the SNES and PSX one as a project of its own.

Actually, that should be pretty easy for anyone to do, really - don't even need to know Japanese!
Well, I mean the PSX comparison being made to what the Japanese said is also important, I feel. Moreso than the differences between FFIV and ET, honestly. The Japanese versions of the game didn't have much changed between versions, but just about EVERY English release has had a different translation. But I draw the line once it stops looking and acting like the SNES version (GBA version has a bunch of problems, and the DS version feels like a new game to me). :P

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 03, 2012, 04:26:19 pm
I see you're past Fabul now. The class change should be another interesting scene.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on September 03, 2012, 06:24:28 pm
Yeah, best part of the game without any doubt :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 04, 2012, 01:12:52 pm
I can't seem to find a good site that has all the known data locations inside the FFII SNES ROM (or FFIV)... Would anyone here happen to have some useful documents? I'm hoping to delve into things in a technical level at some point but I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on September 04, 2012, 02:41:43 pm
I can't seem to find a good site that has all the known data locations inside the FFII SNES ROM (or FFIV)... Would anyone here happen to have some useful documents? I'm hoping to delve into things in a technical level at some point but I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel.
If you tell me specifically what you're looking for, I might be able to find something for you. But I never used any documents, I just figured stuff out on my own.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 16, 2012, 06:56:33 pm
Oops, I got logged out of the forums a while back and never logged back in. For now, I'll hold off on the intricate inner workings of the game, but it's something I really look forward to. I'm kind of curious to know if stat growth was changed for anyone, for example, although I doubt it.

Anyway, I just posted the page about Mt. Ordeals: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/mt-ordeals/ I'm more and more surprised at how weird of a mess the J2E patch actually is - I'm almost considering doing my own basic translation of it but then I'm reminded of this: http://xkcd.com/927/

Still, if anyone's interested in doing FFIV from scratch with minimal hacking (no VWF, no fancy fonts, but I assume naming screens and such will need work) then let me know.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on September 16, 2012, 07:53:02 pm
Oops, I got logged out of the forums a while back and never logged back in. For now, I'll hold off on the intricate inner workings of the game, but it's something I really look forward to. I'm kind of curious to know if stat growth was changed for anyone, for example, although I doubt it.

Anyway, I just posted the page about Mt. Ordeals: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/mt-ordeals/ I'm more and more surprised at how weird of a mess the J2E patch actually is - I'm almost considering doing my own basic translation of it but then I'm reminded of this: http://xkcd.com/927/

Still, if anyone's interested in doing FFIV from scratch with minimal hacking (no VWF, no fancy fonts, but I assume naming screens and such will need work) then let me know.
This is why I'm doing my retranslation. Plus, I felt there was a lot more they could've done hacking-wise.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on September 16, 2012, 08:05:32 pm
On the station thing... each 合 up a mountain trail is 10% of the way up (I believe it’s by altitude starting from the base?). So 3合目 and 7合目 are really approximations for  “1/3 of the way up” and “2/3 of the way up” if you wanted to be boring.

I would conjecture (i.e., when I was a younger man I assumed ;D ) that the choice of the term “station” could come from the practice of making specific stops on religious pilgrimages, being that Mt. Ordeals is something like a spiritual experience in the context of the game. In hindsight, this is almost certainly an eisegesis of mine that just seems to work for me :P

At any rate, the etymology of the term seems uncertain (http://www.fujisan-net.jp/data/article/1090.html).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 16, 2012, 08:57:29 pm
You should see the post class change scene in the J2E translation. More "bastard."
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on September 16, 2012, 10:17:59 pm
I was only know reading about Damcyan. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the FF6 character Edward/Edgar.
I'd guess the changed FF6 Edward to Edgar not only because Edgar is a much less common name in modern usage, but also so players wouldn't associate the two.

Yes, I'm also pretty certain "holy" was among the words Nintendo of America banned from games of the era. Couldn't say devil or kill either. Causing the FF6 holy element to get changed to "pearl".
Oddly "sacred" was fine. As I recall the holy element was referred to as "sacred power" when using the Libra/Peep spell/skill to see an enemy's weakness in FF2.
Of course one SNES title was changed from "Triforce of the Gods" to "A Link to the Past", but also another game called HolyStriker was renamed FireStriker.
I know Holy Diver for the Famicom was announced to get an NES release with the same title. Makes us wonder if that name would've been kept had it been released.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 16, 2012, 10:28:04 pm
This is why I'm doing my retranslation. Plus, I felt there was a lot more they could've done hacking-wise.

Ah, okay, that's cool. For some reason I thought you were working on some sort of translation of Easy Type or something based off of it, I guess not?

What I had in mind was basically just a no-frills, low-hacking thing, to try to recreate what an English speaker would've experienced if they had known Japanese and played the game when it was released in Japan. But as long as a real translation is done, that's all that really matters!

On the station thing... each 合 up a mountain trail is 10% of the way up (I believe it’s by altitude starting from the base?). So 3合目 and 7合目 are really approximations for  “1/3 of the way up” and “2/3 of the way up” if you wanted to be boring.

Ooh, that's good to know. I'll look into it more, but that makes the most sense of all! I think when I was a kid I assumed "station" referred to rest stops for some reason.

You should see the post class change scene in the J2E translation. More "bastard."

I started watching a Let's Play of it today, and already I see so many problems with the patch. I think by the time I get to the post-class change part my head will have exploded  :o

I was only know reading about Damcyan. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the FF6 character Edward/Edgar.
I'd guess the changed FF6 Edward to Edgar not only because Edgar is a much less common name in modern usage, but also so players wouldn't associate the two.

I don't understand - Edgar had his name changed? From what I can remember, he was called Edgar in the Japanese version of FFVI too, and checking Japanese Wikipedia it looks like he's called Edgar... Am I missing/misunderstanding something?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on September 16, 2012, 11:15:30 pm
I notice "death" was also another word on NoA's no-no list.
The Death spell became XXXX in FF1, Fatal in FF2 and Doom in FF3. Another example is that the "death" items in Lufia became "Gloom".

As to Edgar...
I guess it is Edgar. Well, then, one piece Internet misinformation taken down by about a half hour of actually playing the SFC ROM. :-[
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/sahagin/ff6edgar.png)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on September 17, 2012, 01:33:21 am
AAAAARGH.

So I finally got Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy today. And guess what?

Those lazy bastards used the old "one born from a dragon" translation. I'll say it again: AAAAARGH.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 17, 2012, 07:44:08 am
Oh, can you get a screenshot of that? The legend's gonna be in the very next update. (Although the next update won't be for a while so I can finish playing through the games first.)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 17, 2012, 10:45:14 am
I started watching a Let's Play of it today, and already I see so many problems with the patch. I think by the time I get to the post-class change part my head will have exploded  :o

It was released in 2001, same year as Dejap's Tales of Phantasia, with the suggestion of a female characters aggressive intercourse habits. Did you work with them by that point? Gotta figure a lot of us were probably in our late teens/early 20's, and still immature enough to think gore, sex, and profanity were mature, and had the arrogance of knowing it all already. Especially considering these projects most likely started in the late 90's. Notice at the end of that excerpt that you quoted, that they just had to make mention of a porno mag. I could cut them some slack for their youth at the time. I mean if that translation came out like that within the last 6 years or so, there'd be no excuse, but for the time it might be forgivable.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Gideon Zhi on September 17, 2012, 11:09:20 am
On that note, "Dirty Rag" would probably be a perfectly good translation for the pornomag item, since rag is a colloquialism for magazine. When combined with a proper item description you'd get the benefit of the literal translation with the ambiguity/punniness of a double-sided joke, one that adults would (hopefully) understand while still remaining relatively clean to kids.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 17, 2012, 12:25:11 pm
It was released in 2001, same year as Dejap's Tales of Phantasia, with the suggestion of a female characters aggressive intercourse habits. Did you work with them by that point?

I think I started working with Dark Force on Bahamut Lagoon after the ToP patch was released, so that was definitely before my time. I seem to recall him saying that one of the ToP translators didn't really know Japanese himself but had a girlfriend who was Japanese and got her to translate some stuff and he filled in the rest with whatever. But it's been so long that I don't remember the details. I assume that's how some of the weird lines got there in ToP. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened with the J2E FFIV patch too.

I definitely agree it was probably just an age thing - we were all still kids who thought we knew more than we really did. I actually plan to do a comparison project for some of my old projects at some point, to show what a poor fan translation (or just a poor, overly literal translation done without any context) looks like and how it compares to some poor official translations too (such as BoF2). I think it'll be interesting!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on September 17, 2012, 03:42:58 pm
I recall j2e's translation including a line saying one of the girls (Rydia?) would cut off one the guy's balls if they didn't let her join them for the final dungeon.
I'd guess that was another way-over-the-top translation.

I don't know how much it was improved, but I recall the first complete version of the j2e patch was released around 1999, and the 2001 "10th anniversary" patch had a lot of polish such as expanded menus. Unsure if the dialog was changed.

Old projects...
Magna Braban?

I forgot I never did get around to inserting the credits in Time Zone. I think the issue was that the text was too long (with credits like "guy that did the stupid music" :D ). Wonder if I should try to keep that "fun" spirit, or just keep it straight ("MUSIC BY")?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 17, 2012, 05:18:46 pm
Yep, Magna Braban is one I intend to do - not because of anything you did though, but my translation/writing skills at the time were really lacking since that was like my second or third project I'd ever done. And I'd only played like half of the game.

For Time Zone, I'd just do Music Guy or Music Dweeb, something like that.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 17, 2012, 05:50:54 pm
For the record, the patched MB rom only seemed to display correctly in ZSNES as well...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on September 18, 2012, 12:29:50 am
Yeah, there's bugs I wasn't aware of when the patch when it was released in 2006. ZSNES and SNES9x were the primary emulators at the time. I didn't test it on bsnes because either it wasn't developed very far or I didn't have a PC that could get a decent speed with it. My guess is probably the latter.

Tomato, I just remembered that Magna Braban had numerous unused strings in the script.
Spoiler:
I think one removed piece of dialog was about Gina (possibly intended to be Zeena or Zena) said she wanted to kill Alex (the protagonist) as indirect-revenge because some other knight left her mom for dead.
Also, some text for an alternate church that healed status as well as saving (status recovery is automatic in the final game) as well as some sort of item-storage.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: shadowmanwkp on September 19, 2012, 04:38:51 am
Here's something interesting about FFIV I found on hg101:

Quote
<Among cartridge based RPGs during the snes era> the leader was developer and publisher Square, but while some of their RPGs made it over many were passed up for Western release - leaving holes in several series. When Final Fantasy IV eventually reached America its translation contained errors and, according to Woolsey, it had been quickly rewritten by Square's VP and finance guy in order to make sense. It didn't sell as well as hoped

Source: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/localization/localization.htm

The second part also has an interview with Ted Woolsey on localization, but there's no real mention of FFIV there, although I could've sworn there was an article on localization of FFIV somewhere on hg101, or at the very least makes mention of it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 19, 2012, 09:53:04 am
Cool, that's interesting to know. I wish there was a source for that that I could reference, I seem to vaguely recall something on Lost Levels too, I'll have to look around on there too.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 19, 2012, 11:49:00 am
"One guy, Clyde Mandelin (AKA "Tomato") who is referenced in the article at the below location on Gamasutra has done some great work"

Name dropped and complimented in one sentence by Woolsey, how does that make ya feel?  :thumbsup:

"I have (probably rightly so in some cases) been trashed over the years on some sights where fans get up in arms about changes to the game, changes in the text, etc. Would have been nice to have had the space to do a proper and complete localization of the games, items and monsters, but...that wasn't the reality. "

I'd never believe that "rightly so" part. I think it was, like I said earlier, the arrogance of youth. They somehow "knew better," despite not knowing what it was like to work on those games at the time.

" I recall one site, with some fairly vocal contributors, who were advocating translating JP using the JP grammar (Subject, object, verb). They claimed to have the most faithful translations, but when you read them they sounded as odd as you would expect (sort of a lot of Yoda speak)."

Does that remind you of something you've been toying with recently? :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 19, 2012, 06:20:52 pm
Whoa, I think I either forgot about that or haven't seen it yet, awesome!

I'd never believe that "rightly so" part. I think it was, like I said earlier, the arrogance of youth. They somehow "knew better," despite not knowing what it was like to work on those games at the time.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few legitimate problems:

I'll be honest and say that while working on this FFIV stuff I've been tempted to maybe do an FFVI one sometime too. But then I remember how much work FFIV is turning out to be and quickly throw that idea into the closet.

Quote
Does that remind you of something you've been toying with recently?

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to, I have so many projects at once :P I'm guessing he was talking about the old Sky Render translation or something.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Vehek on September 19, 2012, 06:38:22 pm
Here's something interesting about FFIV I found on hg101:

Source: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/localization/localization.htm

The second part also has an interview with Ted Woolsey on localization, but there's no real mention of FFIV there, although I could've sworn there was an article on localization of FFIV somewhere on hg101, or at the very least makes mention of it.
Well, the Player One Podcast interview mentioned in the article mentions that.
Transcript: http://www.playeronepodcast.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=145

Quote from: Woolsey
They had a person who spoke some English and she did her best with Final Fantasy II, which was her game. I didn't have a chance to work on that game. When I talked to the guys that that hired me, the senior VP and then the finance guy, they basically had spent some 24 hour blocks of time late into the evenings, trying to rewrite the text as best they could without ever having played the game. They found so many issues with the screen text when they started reading it, they figured they should take a shot at it.

Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 19, 2012, 09:06:27 pm
Off the top of my head I can think of a few legitimate problems:
  • "Terrible dragons" instead of "dinosaurs"
  • Shadow being called a "she" at one point due to an overlapping event with Relm
  • Setzer saying the Empire's been good for his business, which changes his character and motivation entirely

Still seems kind of minor to verbally thrash someone with limited time to work on it over.


I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to, I have so many projects at once :P I'm guessing he was talking about the old Sky Render translation or something.

Coherency aside, I was actually thinking how it reflected the goal and outcome of the FFIV re-translation.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on September 19, 2012, 09:47:05 pm
Whoa, I think I either forgot about that or haven't seen it yet, awesome!

Off the top of my head I can think of a few legitimate problems:
  • "Terrible dragons" instead of "dinosaurs"
  • Shadow being called a "she" at one point due to an overlapping event with Relm
  • Setzer saying the Empire's been good for his business, which changes his character and motivation entirely

I'll be honest and say that while working on this FFIV stuff I've been tempted to maybe do an FFVI one sometime too. But then I remember how much work FFIV is turning out to be and quickly throw that idea into the closet.

I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to, I have so many projects at once :P I'm guessing he was talking about the old Sky Render translation or something.

I recall reading awhile ago on RPGamer, an interview where Tom Slattery (who did the GBA version) explained the Setzer line and how it was supposedly pretty easy to misinterpret.
Here it is. (http://www.rpgamer.com/features/insidegaming/tslatteryint.html)
(though he doesn't explain why the dialog in Celes' scene wasn't changed, so the scene looks awkward after it was censored)

Speaking of the Mt. Ordeals segment...
From what I recall, the fight against the Dark Knight is supposed to be an unloseable fight (the game continues if Paladin Cecil dies). But I remember playing FFII once, and like usual, I bought the paladin equipment before coming to Mt. Ordeals. And I recall that I equipped the Paladin shield using the item menu, and then got a game over when Paladin Cecil died in the fight.
A bug? And probably in the other versions?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: shadowmanwkp on September 20, 2012, 02:45:04 am
Cool, that's interesting to know. I wish there was a source for that that I could reference, I seem to vaguely recall something on Lost Levels too, I'll have to look around on there too.

Asketh and thy shalst recieve:

Quote
Chris: So what was Square's localization process like before you got there?

Ted: They really didn't have one. They had a person who spoke some English and she did her best with Final Fantasy II, which was her game. I didn't have a chance to work on that game. When I talked to the guys that that hired me, the senior VP and then the finance guy, they basically had spent some 24 hour blocks of time late into the evenings, trying to rewrite the text as best they could without ever having played the game. They found so many issues with the screen text when they started reading it, they figured they should take a shot at it. So it was a mess. I think that's why Sakaguchi-san and others said, "Hey we need to try to fix this." I was brought on board and it turned out I got to do an awful lot of things. But certainly the main focus for me was to look at the manuals and the screen text and translate those things.

Greg: Just to clarify for people, did you do anything with Final Fantasy II or was that mostly done by the time you got there?

Ted: That was all done, in fact at the time there was about a two or three-month manufacturing process to have all the ROMs created. They were being manufactured and the manual was all done, there were some spectacular boo-boo's in the manual. One of the descriptions for a magic effect was "blows wizard."

Greg: [laughter]

Ted: As opposed to be "blows blizzard," which it should've been, or something like that. So there was little things along the way. Because the Super NES was launching and they wanted to accelerate that, Nintendo said "OK, let's just get this thing through." Once you get one of these games through it's pretty hard go back and start massaging the screen text and other parts of it because things just break so easily.

Podcast: http://playerone.libsyn.com/webpage/02_12_07_episode_16_lost_in_translation I haven't listened to it, but according to the forum post, the interview starts at 43:30
Transcript: http://www.playeronepodcast.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=145


Edit: I found more interesting things in the transcript:
Quote
Greg: So going back to something you said in one of your earlier answers you said that one of the scenes that you liked in Final Fantasy III had to do with suicide, but you couldn't translate it as such. There has been a lot of venom on the Internet about things like this fellow named Holy being changed to Pearl and that sort of thing.

Ted: Yes.

Greg: What was the reasoning behind all that?

Ted: Well there definitely was a sheet that was distributed by Nintendo that as a licensee there were certain things you absolutely could not put in games, you could not say in games. Religious terminology was definitely one thing, as were iconographic things that were sometimes built into these games that had to be removed before they were shipped to North America. I think a lot of people haven't really even seen the difference in some of the games that were shipped here.

But so, I can't remember specifically why I changed that to Pearl. It actually could have been a boo-boo on my part. But at any rate, you'd be going through so many hundreds and hundreds of items and magic spells and things that had to be translated. They had to be brought down to I think it was...some of them...it depends on the format that the text was presented to me. I could either have five characters, I could have seven characters or I think in some cases I could have maybe nine. But it depended on how they were encoded into the story.

I mean, Holy and Pearl, obviously there wouldn't be an issue there. I think that was obviously just the word Holy and just trying to avoid being dinged by Nintendo. Any time you submitted a game to Nintendo you had to take the entire screen text, which for Final Fantasy was 50 or 60 hours of having one of your testers do that for you. Then you had to submit the print out, the entire screen text, the ROMs and do all that stuff and give it to them and they'd spend time going through it. If you had something like that, that stopped the submission you were in trouble. It was very expensive and you could miss your deadline to ship.

A lot of companies just decided to err on the safe side, which is probably unfortunate but just to strip out as much as they could in advance just to reduce the time to market.

Chris: One of the other things that I've read on the Internet is people spewing venom about character names (like Crono without the 'h'). I was just wondering if that was just because the Super Nintendo couldn't fit it in there or was there any other reason why some character names were changed?

Ted: Part of it I think was just trying to get the squeezing and squeezing space. It's one of those things where you translate a bunch of stuff and then you're told that you're at 125% capacity and you go back in and you start shortening everything. I didn't think much about it. In some cases I would just go through and I would just run through sheet after sheet after sheet trying to squeeze stuff down to get things in. I'd give it back to the engineers and they would compile it. Then I'd be 104% over and they'd give it back to me. I'd go back again and squeeze and cut and shape and finally would go in and it was like, my god, it's finally in there. That was when we'd try to do some final polishing on it.

But, yeah, there was the opportunity to move sideways from the original text by doing all these different rewrites and shortening exercises that we were forced to do.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: SargeSmash on September 20, 2012, 10:58:29 am
Thy...  shalst?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on September 20, 2012, 11:01:41 am
Thy...  shalst?

There you go. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YeOldeButcheredEnglishe)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on October 05, 2012, 07:19:47 pm
A while back I stumbled upon this nifty Japanese program that analyzes and dumps data from FFIV and FFIV Easy Type into nice HTML files:

http://s-endo.skr.jp/ff_analyzer.html

I'd like to try using it (or modifying it, since the source is available) to dump FFII SNES's data too, that way I can see if there are any technical differences too. I'm having trouble getting command line C compilers to work on my Windows 7 so I thought I'd ask here - has anyone ever used this program on FFII SNES before?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on October 15, 2012, 01:08:33 am
I don't think it's yet been brought up that apparently Cid, Yang and (less surprisingly) FuSoYa weren't important enough to warrant an introduction in the WonderSwan Color manual. :P

(OT: so I noticed that as I was scanning the manuals to my very small WS collection. Surprised I ended up amassing five of the ten WSC games Square released.
Or maybe it was nine. The last game was Front Mission, sequential #10 (SQRC10), but that's assuming Color game ID #3 wasn't reserved for FF3.
If so, that's FF1, FF2, two original games, and then five ports under the "Square Masterpieces" label.
Still more love than the WSC got from most third-parties. :P )
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 28, 2012, 12:44:01 pm
Oops, I forgot to mention I updated this yesterday: http://matotree.com/localization/final-fantasy-iv/mysidia-2/ It features the legend stuff - while writing it I thought of you, Ryusui  ;)

Some more status update info here too: http://matotree.com/2012/11/final-fantasy-iv-comparison-update-mysidia-2/

At some point I need to go back a few sections and insert some interesting things from the Playstation, PSP, etc. versions but I wonder if I should just save that stuff for later so that I can get momentum back.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on November 28, 2012, 01:48:08 pm
I think you made a mistake and posted the English screen twice on the first subject on the page.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 28, 2012, 04:10:12 pm
Yeah, someone pointed it out a little bit ago so I fixed it - but then I somehow undid it, oops.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on May 31, 2013, 02:12:22 am
This is a gigantic bump, but first, I thought I'd mention that I moved these localization comparisons to its own site: http://legendsoflocalization.com/

Also, Ryusui, you might be interested in this FFIV guide that arrived today. Check out the text on the front cover!

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/IMG_0375-960x720.jpg)

Usually English text on stuff like this is just gibberish, so that came as a real surprise!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on May 31, 2013, 07:50:04 pm
...whoa. The only glitch in all that is "whom." And maybe the ampersand.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on June 01, 2013, 03:28:43 pm
I can understand the use of the 'whom' if the overall intent of the statement is a demonstrative to whomever was born of the dragon.

:o
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 01, 2013, 10:01:13 pm
Has anyone know any differences between the USA, European (Pal) Versions to Japanese version of SNES/SFC Lagoon?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 01, 2013, 11:11:14 pm
Has anyone know any differences between the USA, European (Pal) Versions to Japanese version of SNES/SFC Lagoon?

Geez, Lagoon is such an obscure game.  :laugh:

I played the Japanese SFC version many years ago and I vaguely remember some of it being different than the US version. I think there were some name differences and I swear you could buy a manekineko (lucky cat) at a shop in one of the towns. I remember the X68000 version being very different than the SFC Japanese version, too.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Azkadellia on June 01, 2013, 11:41:32 pm
I've played both the SNES/SFC and X68000 versions of Lagoon. I prefer the X68k version (even though I haven't a clue as to what the hell's going on) due to it having a superior battle system (think Hydlide NES. Hold down attack button and ram.) and superior music.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 01, 2013, 11:50:34 pm
I've played both the SNES/SFC and X68000 versions of Lagoon. I prefer the X68k version (even though I haven't a clue as to what the hell's going on) due to it having a superior battle system (think Hydlide NES. Hold down attack button and ram.) and superior music.

I agree. The SNES/SFC version has shitty controls, too, from what I recall. I wouldn't mind translating the X68k version at some point. Too bad there aren't more people interested in X68k translations.  ;)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on June 02, 2013, 04:31:46 am
Dude, I'd love a translation of Lagoon on the X68000. I loved Lagoon growing up, and I learned about it being a shite port a year or two back, but I could never find more info on the original... I've been wanting to play it forever D:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Azkadellia on June 02, 2013, 06:21:30 am
Too bad there aren't more people interested in X68k translations.  ;)

Indeed. There's some damn good games for it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on June 02, 2013, 07:32:54 am
IMO, SNES Lagoon isn't such a bad port, but the main issue is that the game itself is kinda bland. It's like a C+ game. Not really much point to play it other than for the X68K version's supposedly(I say supposedly because I haven't heard much if any of it) awesome soundtrack. The environments were changed, and neither were the graphics. The battle system really isn't THAT different. The main thing is you mash buttons to swing rather than holding it down. Given the nature of the game and how you had to angle your attack in both versions in an Ys-like manner, well...

I just don't see much of a difference. Was the plot majorly changed between the US and Japanese releases of SNES Lagoon, or the SNES and X68K releases of it? That might warrant a translation as well as the music...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 02, 2013, 09:43:56 am
Yeah speaking of X68000 Games i've been peeping on those for a very long time wondering if you guys were interested in old school PC games as i was back in the mid to late 1990's to mid 2000's ;)Very great looking games which i personaly believe there comparable to SNES/SFC & Famicom/nes but 100x better imo! p.s If you guys want a good library of them check em out here: http://mercenaryforce.web.fc2.com/x68k/x68000.html :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 02, 2013, 11:38:54 am
Was the plot majorly changed between the US and Japanese releases of SNES Lagoon, or the SNES and X68K releases of it? That might warrant a translation as well as the music...

Yes, the X68k version has a few small differences in plot. This website (http://secretplace.cml-a.com/sharplagoon.php) details some of them. For example, there are more/different quests before leaving Atland, and Nasir has a sister (Reia) that you can visit. Also, the X68k version has some sweet cutscenes and better graphics.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on June 02, 2013, 12:19:19 pm
Hmm, in the stream I watched of it once(Thanks Azkadellia!), I didn't notice much of a difference in the graphics... That said, it was a stream. Those can reduce graphics quality even when broadcasting ancient systems like the X68K.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Gideon Zhi on June 02, 2013, 01:02:37 pm
Yes, the X68k version has a few small differences in plot. This website (http://secretplace.cml-a.com/sharplagoon.php) details some of them. For example, there are more/different quests before leaving Atland, and Nasir has a sister (Reia) that you can visit. Also, the X68k version has some sweet cutscenes and better graphics.

Damn, I just realized: PROGRAMMED BY NASIR.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 02, 2013, 01:58:02 pm
Damn, I just realized: PROGRAMMED BY NASIR.

Patron Saint of romhacking.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on June 02, 2013, 03:04:59 pm
I know, right? Apparently the dude now lives one town over from me (Sacramento, CA)--I've kinda wanted to hit him up and interview him about stuff, including any things he might remember getting cut/altered during early game development, but I can't ever think of what to ask :/
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 02, 2013, 03:26:21 pm
I know, right? Apparently the dude now lives one town over from me (Sacramento, CA)--I've kinda wanted to hit him up and interview him about stuff, including any things he might remember getting cut/altered during early game development, but I can't ever think of what to ask :/

He did an interview, Q&A thing with John Romero, and some other people involved in that era that was posted on here some time ago. I don't remember who posted it, but the discussion was pretty good; my point is he seems open to doing interviews in that that kind of setting.

Edit: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,14950.msg220373.html#msg220373 (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,14950.msg220373.html#msg220373)

I stand corrected, the interview was something I must have looked up after I read about him on here. And it was KingMike that pointed me in that direction.
 
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on June 03, 2013, 12:59:31 am
Yeah, it was that interview that clued me into where he lives, when I looked into the guy further. I always assumed that that name was just a handle, but it was pretty bitchin to realize he coded that much content (basically all) for some of our favorite games.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on June 03, 2013, 03:02:36 pm
After checking out that awesome article of yours on FFIV, Tomato, it's quite sad that we still after more than 20 years after its release (wow it's really been that long) haven't been presented with a more faithful translation of this masterpiece. Heard that the DS version is supposed to be really good but that is still not the real FFIV. That the old fan retranslation is a mess is not that surprising but what really surprised me is how much the PSX translation seems to differ from the original text in the various examples seen in your article, truly disappointing as many ports seems to have been based on it as well. :( FFIV is in desperate need of a new translation patch...

Thank you for these articles, a delight to read.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 04, 2013, 12:08:34 am
Yeah speaking of so, why is that PSX localisation translations were a pile of a mess (except FF7 I guess) this goes for FF6 as well too right? It was like they were still living under Nintendo's Roof with these type of reworked projects. P.S Do anyone know if Sega's Translations to games were faithful ever?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 04, 2013, 12:22:50 am
Yeah speaking of so, why is that PSX localisation translations were a pile of a mess (except FF7 I guess) this goes for FF6 as well too right? It was like they were still living under Nintendo's Roof with these type of reworked projects. P.S Do anyone know if Sega's Translations to games were faithful ever?

FF7's translation was a hot mess and I'm amazed no one has done a fan translation. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't think the original FF6 translation was all that bad. Chrono Trigger's was really good, too.

I'm not too sure about Sega translations, my only experience being with "Story of Thor" (I worked on the retranslation). The original English script wasn't entirely accurate, but it didn't seem to have a lot of crazy censorship (unlike early Nintendo games).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: LostTemplar on June 04, 2013, 04:04:41 am
FF7's translation was a hot mess and I'm amazed no one has done a fan translation.

Now imagine how terrible the German one is, being badly translated from English...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on June 04, 2013, 04:15:28 am
In english ? I never noticed that the english version of FF7 was bad, but it might come because I'm not a native.

However in french it's definitely terrible, as it is based on the english one (instead of directly japanese), and contains some mistakes, too literally translated sutff, and some leftover text in english. Many things are abbreviated too much to fit on the screen. However it did never prevent me to enjoy the game despite being poorly translated.

Also, we saw on the FF4 article that "retranslations" are not always that good. The FF4 retranslation is purposely doing everything the reverse way of the original, and they added swearing where it was not present, as well as making random stuff up.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 04, 2013, 09:21:00 am
FF7's translation was a hot mess and I'm amazed no one has done a fan translation. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't think the original FF6 translation was all that bad. Chrono Trigger's was really good, too.

I'm not too sure about Sega translations, my only experience being with "Story of Thor" (I worked on the retranslation). The original English script wasn't entirely accurate, but it didn't seem to have a lot of crazy censorship (unlike early Nintendo games).
True and I agree that Chrono Trigger's Translation on the PS1 was actually pretty good imo but didn't knew FF7's Translation was bad i thought it to be fine, tho the typos were a slight mistake and a few things didn't.. make.. since..? I guess. As for the story of thor on Sega megadrive what about beyond oasis localisation did they do a horrible Job to that version as well? I'm Not sure tbh
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 04, 2013, 02:07:14 pm
True and I agree that Chrono Trigger's Translation on the PS1 was actually pretty good imo but didn't knew FF7's Translation was bad i thought it to be fine, tho the typos were a slight mistake and a few things didn't.. make.. since..? I guess. As for the story of thor on Sega megadrive what about beyond oasis localisation did they do a horrible Job to that version as well? I'm Not sure tbh

Exactly. FF7's original English script didn't flow well at all. A lot of the dialogue seemed stilted and nonsensical. As for Story of Thor, the original translation wasn't horrible. I remember the English version left out a huge clue about a plot twist (which I thought was pretty funny), but other than that and a few minor changes to the plot it wasn't terrible.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: vivify93 on June 04, 2013, 02:20:39 pm
Heard that the DS version is supposed to be really good but that is still not the real FFIV.
The DS / iOS / Android version's translation is pretty accurate, from what I can tell*, but the introduction of Augments makes it a bit less traditional than the original FFIV.

* Not a translator or fluent in Japanese; take what I've said with a grain of salt. It's better than J2e's or the PS1's translation, from my research into the matter.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on June 04, 2013, 02:44:23 pm
I really do need to play the DS version someday, I'd like to take screenshots for my project but I don't think my PC's powerful enough to run things at full speed, unless DS emulation has gotten better in the past year or two.

I'd also love to take a look at these European translations based on English translations sometime!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 04, 2013, 03:09:50 pm
I really do need to play the DS version someday, I'd like to take screenshots for my project but I don't think my PC's powerful enough to run things at full speed, unless DS emulation has gotten better in the past year or two.

I'd also love to take a look at these European translations based on English translations sometime!

I tried DS emulation a couple years ago with Disgaea, and my very craptastic computer was able to handle it at about 65-70% normal speed. If it's improved even slightly since then, and you're running a relatively modern machine it seems likely it'd work.

I'd very much enjoy seeing the comparisons, although I'm generally more forgiving of companies, and people making certain changes than some people here, and in the community as a whole. I still think it's fascinating to see exactly what was changed from region to region, and sometimes even why it was changed.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 04, 2013, 03:36:41 pm
Exactly. FF7's original English script didn't flow well at all. A lot of the dialogue seemed stilted and nonsensical. As for Story of Thor, the original translation wasn't horrible. I remember the English version left out a huge clue about a plot twist (which I thought was pretty funny), but other than that and a few minor changes to the plot it wasn't terrible.
True and I've might need to play it more or look through more info about it later sometime soon. Btw kinda off-topic but are you still happen to continue translate Love Quest by anychance? I'm not trying to rush you or anything just curious even when we had that discussion awhile back like Q4 2012 or Very Early 2013 lol
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Mew seeker on June 04, 2013, 09:12:18 pm
FF7's translation was a hot mess and I'm amazed no one has done a fan translation.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.0
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on June 04, 2013, 09:41:28 pm
I was much relieved the first time I came across it. I mean, it’s not the retranslation I’d want, necessarily, but it’s one that works and one that was sorely needed for a long time.

Very sad (but not surprising :P) to see how defensive the people who worked on it have had to be, though.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on June 04, 2013, 10:50:10 pm
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.0

Woo hoo! I had no idea this existed!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: geishaboy on June 05, 2013, 02:02:41 am
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.0

I had no idea people took FF7 so seriously  :huh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on June 05, 2013, 11:01:17 am
You should be glad you had no idea. So many childhoods wasted that way.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on June 05, 2013, 05:04:58 pm
Quote
With "canon", one has to realise that every language has its own, and thus the original vision is watered down and inconsistent from place to place.  This is the whole point of why we threw canon out.  Some are very angry that we have used "Moguri" and not "Moogle", but look at other countries and you will see they have correctly used "Moguri" and so forth.   It ended up Moogle simply due to an initial mistake;  a mistake that has not been corrected.

What pretentious BS. When every other localization uses "Moogle," it only makes sense to maintain consistency. "Moguri" isn't even a pun that makes sense in English. Now, if Final Fantasy were a franchise with a reputation for crappy inconsistent localizations, then I wouldn't have an issue with them doing whatever the hell they wanted, but...it's not.

What little consistency the Breath of Fire franchise has, I tried to maintain in my translation of BoF2. "Gonghead" was the only exception, and I had a good reason for throwing it out (there are several other enemies in the game whose names suggest that "Gunhead" was the intended romanization), but I'd rather stick it back in than admit that this is even remotely right. And it still frustrates the hell out of me that I missed something major when I fan translated Sylvanian Families - true, "Misty Forest" doesn't even remotely resemble a translation of "Otogi no Kuni," but it's what it's called in the toyline outside of Japan.

This project doesn't strike me as a "retranslation" so much as an ego trip - a bunch of people with an inflated opinion of themselves going "this is how we'd do Final Fantasy VII" rather than "this is how Square-Enix would do Final Fantasy VII now."
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 05, 2013, 05:54:40 pm
I found that whole paragraph to be pretty annoying. They can do what they wish, but I personally have no interest in the project.

I'm too old, and too apathetic to fight with people over a game that was released 16 years ago. I did enough of that in my younger, and more foolish days.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on June 05, 2013, 09:25:25 pm
-snip-
Ouch, man...

If there’s something wrong with taking that kind of approach (separating it from how they put it in an annoying way), you shouldn’t want to be right. It sounds a lot to me like saying there is only one right way to do a translation, something we as translators know to be patent nonsense.

I mean, no, I certainly would not make that decision myself, but that’s because I (like you) prefer a “commercial” approach—your intended/imaginary audience is someone who just wants to play the game, like a typical enthusiast or customer, but is maybe less tolerant of these linguistic issues, or like you is just “pretending” this is the “real” version of the game (not trying to use the “scare quotes” of mockery so much as as talk in a ludological sense here... a game about picking which translation of a game is the one we want, so to speak); the shared cultural connection or whatever for most gamers will always be the official release or the first translation patch with whatever flaws it had. The mass-market, first-exposure time for most of these games is gone, likely never to return. What remains is the long future. We are fast approaching a point where we have to admit a lot of these JRPGs we admire and put time into (re)translating are a couple decades old, and both the source and target languages as well as the cultural context have changed in some significant ways.

Reverting back to the original language names for something completely original is something you do see in certain “academic” approaches—not uncommon at all in literature—and it seems clear to me that that’s what they’re going for here, no matter how disagreeable some of these decisions seem even to me. This sort of translation is useful for a different sort of audience—not fans, I should say. I have used this sort of approach in various translations of mine that were less for general consumption and more for critical understanding. It takes a lot of the second-guessing out of the translation job and avoids spoon-feeding the reader an interpretation of the text, and that has its merits and demerits; I think I’ll leave it at that.

Arguments over localized names is an execrable form of bikeshedding and I think we who believe in our own ability to adequately satisfy these demanding (dare I say entitled whiny brat?) voices on the Internet are only fooling ourselves. There is a fine line between entertaining a legitimate criticism and entertaining an idiot, and I’ve seen plenty of both, so I’m a little conflicted as to whether it’s a good idea at all to let certain audiences engage....

At any rate, I’d wager it is not a very good idea to try being one of these bozos ourselves, as we ought to know better than others what it’s like to be on the other end of that stick. And I am disappointed and expected better of you :P

(At which point it should be said that my own dissatisfaction in this particular project is more of a not-invented-here thing than a specific problem and retranslating FF1-10 is an item on my “bucket list if it turns out I’m immortal” along with reading a number of really long books and achieving world conqu——peace.)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Ryusui on June 05, 2013, 11:23:22 pm
*sigh* I suppose BoF2 probably counts as an ego trip - the whole reason I jumped aboard was because I'd thought "I could write a better translation than this" of the GBA version and decided it was time to put up or shut up. And I suppose there are people who'd prefer a more literal take on the translation.

He who fights monsters, man. I've seen and facepalmed at so much bozodom I think I have a legit reason to worry I'm becoming one myself.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 06, 2013, 12:12:43 am
*sigh* I suppose BoF2 probably counts as an ego trip - the whole reason I jumped aboard was because I'd thought "I could write a better translation than this" of the GBA version and decided it was time to put up or shut up. And I suppose there are people who'd prefer a more literal take on the translation.

In a way much of what's done here is an ego trip. Perhaps it didn't start out that way, but evolved into it. Or perhaps it did start out that way, and grew into something more. Not that ego is the only, or even the contributing factor of so many people here, but there's little doubt in my mind that it plays a part, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I personally don't have a problem with the they're doing, because I'll simply ignore it (they are free to translate how they choose, just as I'm free to ignore what I choose), but I do have a slight problem with the wording in that paragraph, some of the claims that are being made in a condescending manner, and the overall jerkass vibe that, that particular paragraph gives off.

To the best of my knowledge neither of you have stated that people who preferred a translation the the one you were working on were worshiping the original translator as a God. 

That said, the discussion's rather interesting.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on June 12, 2013, 07:14:08 am
Baron 2:
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/media/final-fantasy-iv/baron-2/gbakain.png)
Just wanted to point out that the above name code mistake in the US GBA version was corrected in the European version, where it correctly says Cid instead of Kain.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on June 12, 2013, 12:13:34 pm
Cool, thanks, I didn't know that! It sounds like the Japanese release had lots of bugs that the NA version fixed, but the NA version had lots of bugs too that the European releases fixed. So many versions  :o
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on June 13, 2013, 09:07:20 am
Just be thankful you haven't touched on Ys.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on June 16, 2013, 08:45:52 pm
Cool, thanks, I didn't know that! It sounds like the Japanese release had lots of bugs that the NA version fixed, but the NA version had lots of bugs too that the European releases fixed. So many versions  :o
I may be wrong but the way I understand it, the NA version was basically identical to the first bug-ridden Japanese release as they were released just a few days apart. Apparently a Japanese revision was released which included all the bug-fixes of the European release but unfortunately the North American market never got such a revision.

Own the European GBA version myself, only played it once when it was released but somehow it never felt as satisfying as playing the real thing, the number of re-releases of this game are insane. IMO the original classic is still the best.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 18, 2013, 04:55:46 pm
I've been always curious when i comes to game localisations, but why do certain Japanese games got to have the names changed even though the characters name IS Already in English just makes no sense to me! e.g Bare Knuckle 2/Streets of Rage 2 & Sammy > Skate?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on June 18, 2013, 05:37:57 pm
You'd have to ask the people who made it, but it's usually due to marketing.

Because it was the '90s (and always time for Klax) and skateboarding was growing in popularity.
Or if you mean the title, well, Streets of RAGE!! sounds much more exciting that a bare knuckle. :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 18, 2013, 06:08:25 pm
Your Right is was just all the stupid marketing & 90's america craze! :/ "faceplam" but didn't the europeans had the same name as the american version or surprisingly Japanese version? As for the name Streets of Rage does sound more a lil of the point seller. Btw another localisation thing is why games like Super Puyo puyo weren't released as it was & instead we got Kirby's Avalanche or Dr. Robotinc's Mean bean machine?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on June 18, 2013, 06:29:11 pm
We got those games because Sonic, and Kirby were popular in the United States, and it's much easier to release a spinoff of something that's popular than it is to introduce a brand new franchise. There's a wider demographic, as you're targeting fans of and already established franchise, and fans of puzzle games.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 18, 2013, 09:41:13 pm
@Next gen Cowboy True your right! even though it sucks but your absolutely right about that. Even when trying to establish or introduce a new IP to a different country i'll be hard doing so kind of. But it shouldn't hurt to try someone new for a change instead of the same ol' same ol'. P.S off-topic I'd know this might seem to be a generic statement to a few people that might already know the answer too but Why Sega Never released Rent-A-Hero to America which could've helped their increases to the Genesis sales & the game itself is americanize with it's modern themed era time with a Superhero Comic book style type character & stuff but instead we got Sword of Vermillion :/ even tho it's a good game imo!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on June 19, 2013, 11:21:32 am
Your Right is was just all the stupid marketing & 90's america craze! :/ "faceplam" but didn't the europeans had the same name as the american version or surprisingly Japanese version? As for the name Streets of Rage does sound more a lil of the point seller. Btw another localisation thing is why games like Super Puyo puyo weren't released as it was & instead we got Kirby's Avalanche or Dr. Robotinc's Mean bean machine?
Because Puyo-Puyo was probably considered cuteness-overload (the Game Gear version of Puyo-Puyo actually has a built-in English mode available if you run the game on a non-Japanese GG, so it's pretty clear Sega had once considered a direct localization). The fact that both Sega and Nintendo felt it should say something.
Of course Panel de Pon got changed because enjoying a game with a large number of fairy girls in America is often considered a euphemism for homosexuality (much less socially acceptable in the '90s, though that's still not a good idea to get into that topic). I'd imagine some of the same thoughts went across the minds of Puyo-Puyo's western marketers.
Nintendo game director Kensuke Tanabe, see (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/06/nintendos_kensuke_tanabe_wants_to_make_tingle_popular_in_the_west) also Tingle. :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 19, 2013, 12:31:57 pm
@KingMike Yeah your absolutely right! despite how america treats cutesy type anime characters like garbage & perfers characters like Dr. Robotink or someone else stupid! But Why Sega would waste they're time localizating Puyo Puyo to English and then change plans at the end makes no sense to me, Who cares what people say they Bitch & moan about every little speck they find in the games and call it weird or dumb & a waste instead of giving the F'king game a chance! That's what pisses me off as english-speaking people feel about Japanese games & you see why we never get them and start little petitions for no many reasons! P.S Never knew people cared about art in a video game before :huh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on June 23, 2013, 01:20:20 pm
Hey guys (http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv-secret-of-mana-and-chrono-trigger-had-a-connection/)
have you played Chrono Trigger today?
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/sahagin/secretofmana_zps5f23e47d.jpg)
Oh wait, that game's actually called Final Fantasy IV! ;)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: LostTemplar on June 23, 2013, 05:23:17 pm
So we (in Europe) actually did get FFIV back then after all!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 23, 2013, 05:44:29 pm
How different is the European Translation for Secret of Mana is? I know Hellhound wasn't censored afaik
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on June 25, 2013, 06:28:52 pm
In my latest FFIV update I noticed an extra line of text that seemed to come out of nowhere and appear in the Playstation translation, the GBA translation, and the fan translation... but that doesn't seem to exist in the actual Japanese version.

I dunno what's up with that, but KingMike suggested I take a look at an earlier version of the J2E translation, prior to the "anniversary edition". I did some searching and some archive.org-ing and can't find any copies of the old translation patch. Would anyone here be able to help track some down?

The farthest back I was able to find was this: http://web.archive.org/web/20000818041946/http://donut.parodius.com/snes/ff4.html but alas, no archived patch files here or anywhere else :(
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 25, 2013, 06:36:48 pm
In my latest FFIV update I noticed an extra line of text that seemed to come out of nowhere and appear in the Playstation translation, the GBA translation, and the fan translation... but that doesn't seem to exist in the actual Japanese version.

I dunno what's up with that, but KingMike suggested I take a look at an earlier version of the J2E translation, prior to the "anniversary edition". I did some searching and some archive.org-ing and can't find any copies of the old translation patch. Would anyone here be able to help track some down?

The farthest back I was able to find was this: http://web.archive.org/web/20000818041946/http://donut.parodius.com/snes/ff4.html but alas, no archived patch files here or anywhere else :(
I have the pre-patched rom but not the ips itself if you need it or not
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on June 26, 2013, 01:09:31 am
Hey guys (http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv-secret-of-mana-and-chrono-trigger-had-a-connection/)
have you played Chrono Trigger today?
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/sahagin/secretofmana_zps5f23e47d.jpg)
Oh wait, that game's actually called Final Fantasy IV! ;)

Some more information for the interested here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46320034&postcount=12399

Also, in LEVEL - a Swedish gaming magazine, there was a big feature about the creation of Secret of Mana in a 2006 issue, where the creators lamented the big plans they had for their game which was scrapped due to Nintendo's abandoned CD-rom attachment, and where they briefly mentioned the connection behind the three classic games, translated from Swedish:

- Many of the ideas we had for the CD-version came fortunately to use later, when we did Chrono Trigger, says Hiromichi Tanaka. In fact, the original version of Secret of Mana was not at all the same game as we eventually released. The first version of the game had for example a much darker tone.

In the same way as parts of Chrono Trigger originally had been intended for Secret of Mana, was the latter a further development of Square's Super NES-debut Final Fantasy IV. It was when Tanaka, Koichi Ishii and the legendary programmer Nasir Gebelli investigated the possibility of developing that game's active time battle as they got the idea for their innovative combat system.

- Secret of Mana is in many ways the game Final Fantasy IV could have been, says Tanaka. Many of the design decisions we discussed during the development of that game was used in Secret of Mana instead. The whole game represents a direction we were considering with Final Fantasy IV, but ultimately avoided.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: tc on June 27, 2013, 01:20:58 am
@KingMike Yeah your absolutely right! despite how america treats cutesy type anime characters like garbage & perfers characters like Dr. Robotink or someone else stupid! But Why Sega would waste they're time localizating Puyo Puyo to English and then change plans at the end makes no sense to me, Who cares what people say they Bitch & moan about every little speck they find in the games and call it weird or dumb & a waste instead of giving the F'king game a chance! That's what pisses me off as english-speaking people feel about Japanese games & you see why we never get them and start little petitions for no many reasons! P.S Never knew people cared about art in a video game before :huh:

Yeah similar happened again on Game Gear. Ronald in the Magical World detects English systems also.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DSwizzy145 on June 27, 2013, 07:13:40 am
Yeah similar happened again on Game Gear. Ronald in the Magical World detects English systems also.
Yeah that was another Japan Only release not sure why that didn't came out despite the fact that Ronald McDonald is very popular in America is confusing to me :huh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on June 27, 2013, 10:03:02 am
I found out I actually had downloaded all FF4 translations from the GoodSNES set.
I made patches of all of them, to be applied to a no-header clean FF4 ROM.
Downloaded them a year or so ago when some guy on ebay was selling hacked FF4 carts with, it turned out, patch "a6" (a very poor job at inserting the FF2 script into the FF4 ROM).
http://www.mediafire.com/download/36aq1xg2wbe1l6s/all-old-FF4-SNES-translations.7z
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on June 27, 2013, 01:04:04 pm
Very interesting and sort of an eye opener how different all the translations actually are, albeit subtle. Especially apparent in your latest update. Weird how the Playstation re-translation and subsequent WonderSwan/GBA translations took one big step forward from the early SNES days and made things sound more naturally for the most part but at the same time they took two step backwards and missed the points of some minor dialog which the SNES version actually conveyed, albeit a bit vague and clunky. Love the minutiae of this! Maybe someone should try to insert the DS-translation into the Super Famicom original, though I guess that might be a very tough endeavour.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on July 11, 2013, 06:27:56 pm
I found out I actually had downloaded all FF4 translations from the GoodSNES set.
I made patches of all of them, to be applied to a no-header clean FF4 ROM.
Downloaded them a year or so ago when some guy on ebay was selling hacked FF4 carts with, it turned out, patch "a6" (a very poor job at inserting the FF2 script into the FF4 ROM).
http://www.mediafire.com/download/36aq1xg2wbe1l6s/all-old-FF4-SNES-translations.7z
Thanks for posting those. A real blast from the past! Damn, some of those are crude... this just reminds me how much I miss a properly done hack/fan-translation. From a quick look at the a1 and a3 patches, they sure look identical, probably some minor bug-fixes between them. Anyone who knows exactly what's the difference between this "J2E-anniversary" and the most recent one? I actually think the overall presentation of the early ones before the expanded dialog boxes are nicer. There's an annoying transparency issue with the Equip Menu though.

Personally I think that the only way to make the original game true justice, is to first succeed with incorporate an variable width font, there's simply not enough space for having all accurate item & spell names without sacrificing presentation and playability otherwise. For example, the J2E translation expanded all those item/magic/command names, which is very nice, but as a result the battle screen suffers instead because you get various magic spells hidden below another window, longer and accurate enemy names makes it necessary to scrap the enemy counter etc. (I think the official English FFVI/III did this as well?) I also recall the expanded "magic description-window" in battle which is originally just a tiny one located to the right in frame obscures some visual effects from magic and summons when fully expanded. As usual a constant battle against space.

Sorry for being a little bit off topic, this thread and your fine article has just reinvigorated my love for this old gem.:)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on July 12, 2013, 02:42:41 am
Quote
There's an annoying transparency issue with the Equip Menu though.
This is the case of all (SNES) versions of the game I think. The colour which is supposed to be "black" is the colour you choose for the window (because black is transparent).

Same thing happens in battle, when you cast black magic, the black magic symbol in the window is actually transparent.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on July 12, 2013, 03:31:34 pm
This is the case of all (SNES) versions of the game I think. The colour which is supposed to be "black" is the colour you choose for the window (because black is transparent).

Same thing happens in battle, when you cast black magic, the black magic symbol in the window is actually transparent.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the magic icons but in this case the icons on the Equipment menu is affected instead (text below shines through making the icons look white where it should be black) This is not the case in the original game or the "j2e-anniversary" patch. So I guess it was something that appeared when they first hacked the menus but was later fixed.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on July 13, 2013, 09:03:05 am
Quote
This is not the case in the original game or the "j2e-anniversary" patch.
Phephaps, but that WAS the case with the original game (both (J) and (U) versions)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: vivify93 on July 13, 2013, 02:17:12 pm
I was testing my FFII US mod today, and the black of the icons is actually removed in the equipment text box, but not the item text box.

(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/51793Moeman/ifyouwantitwellgiveyoudanger_zps7fd26b6a.png)

It's based of v1.1, and I didn't change this behavior.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Bregalad on July 13, 2013, 03:13:05 pm
Ah sorry I didn't understood this subtlety. My bad.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: vivify93 on July 13, 2013, 03:37:59 pm
Ah sorry I didn't understood this subtlety. My bad.
It's cool; I didn't even notice it myself until I read through this topic!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on August 14, 2013, 04:21:22 pm
I was testing my FFII US mod today, and the black of the icons is actually removed in the equipment text box, but not the item text box.
I see, that may explain why it appeared in their hack then. Had not noticed the lack of black in the Equipment box before you pointed it out.


Mato, was checking out your great Zelda article again and noticed where this line ゴーマ ノ メヲネラエ was being translated to “Aim at the eyes of Gohma.” in the NES version, you naturally suggested that a better translation would’ve been, “Aim at the eye of Gohma.” or “Aim for the eye of Gohma.” due to the fact that the creature only has one eye. As Gohma being not only one single creature, there's several of them in the game like Dodongos and Digdoggers, would perhaps an even better alternative have been, "Aim at the Gohma's eye." or “Aim at the eye of the Gohma.”? As I'm not an native English speaker I'm not sure if my take on it sounds natural or not. I guess the plural form would be Gohmas. :P One of the reasons I'm asking about this rather trivial issue is because I'm working on translation patches for the game where I'm mostly taking use of your excellent translations if you don't mind.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 14, 2013, 04:59:16 pm
Hah, cool, I was actually considering making patches for the FDS ROM, the English ROM, and the FC ROM sometime soon, so I'm glad to hear I won't need to now :P

If you can fit it in, I'd definitely go with one of your suggestions. The use of "the" definitely makes things clearer.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spooniest on August 16, 2013, 01:36:46 pm
This is all well and good, but what I want to know is which localization is the BEST...

...But not really.

I feel that if you're going to compare them, it's worth saying that they generally have gotten better over time. I haven't played much of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, but the localization in that seemed pretty natural, I got what they were saying (sure beat the original on PS1).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on August 18, 2013, 01:18:19 pm
Hah, cool, I was actually considering making patches for the FDS ROM, the English ROM, and the FC ROM sometime soon, so I'm glad to hear I won't need to now :P
Oh, good thing I asked then, wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping on any toes. You take all the credit of course.
If you can fit it in, I'd definitely go with one of your suggestions. The use of "the" definitely makes things clearer.
Thanks! I felt really stupid for asking this when it's such a simple line but something about it made me unsure of the grammar in my suggestions. :-[

Man, the GBA version of FFIV really had a lot of bugs! Have to check if those text errors seen in your Agart update was fixed for the EU release...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Piotyr on September 01, 2013, 02:34:02 pm
Do you think someday you can do the lunar games? That its a huge undertaking because lunar has more different ports than any final fantasy game but its one of my childhood favorites.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 27, 2013, 05:27:36 pm
Yeah, I'd like to do the Lunar games sometime. I really gotta find a better way to handle things so I can work on more stuff more often though, as it is now I'll be on FFIV for a long time to come  :-[

Anyway, the other day I posted an article about control codes in translations. I thought some hackers here might appreciate it: http://legendsoflocalization.com/an-inside-look-at-video-game-control-codes/

I'm also curious to know what other control code goofs exist out there in official releases! KingMike sent me one from Secret of the Stars that was pretty cool that I might do another update about sometime too.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Gideon Zhi on September 27, 2013, 06:31:06 pm
Anyway, the other day I posted an article about control codes in translations. I thought some hackers here might appreciate it: http://legendsoflocalization.com/an-inside-look-at-video-game-control-codes/

One thing to note about Earthbound and games like it as opposed to something similar to, say, Laplace's Demon - just about every game has its own built-in event scripting language:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 27, 2013, 07:12:32 pm
Definitely, I realize EarthBound's case is just one of a different implementation, but I didn't want to get into the messy details in this article.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 27, 2013, 07:44:48 pm
Do you think someday you can do the lunar games? That its a huge undertaking because lunar has more different ports than any final fantasy game but its one of my childhood favorites.

Ys. I'm not suggesting it, but all of the first 3 games have so many damn ports...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: DarknessSavior on September 27, 2013, 09:14:48 pm
Yeah, I'd like to do the Lunar games sometime. I really gotta find a better way to handle things so I can work on more stuff more often though, as it is now I'll be on FFIV for a long time to come  :-[

Anyway, the other day I posted an article about control codes in translations. I thought some hackers here might appreciate it: http://legendsoflocalization.com/an-inside-look-at-video-game-control-codes/

I'm also curious to know what other control code goofs exist out there in official releases! KingMike sent me one from Secret of the Stars that was pretty cool that I might do another update about sometime too.
I don't know how feasible it would be to do it, but see if you can set up posts in queue like I do for my Japanese through JRPGs blog. That way you can do a ton of FFIV posts over a few days, but do enough work to keep the site going for a few months. You'll have time to work on other stuff and won't get burned out as much.

~DS
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 28, 2013, 03:30:59 am
Yeah, I used to do that with EarthBound Central, unfortunately the game comparison stuff doesn't really function as a blog :(
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Almagest on October 16, 2013, 05:04:32 pm
Megaman X4's opening song was changed when it came to America. I don't know if people already talked about this but...here it is. Just compare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7DG4ZjhZ8
US Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNMlXqR79g
Original Version

This game also had a terrible English voice acting. And this was the first PSX game I tried to hack, but I gave up. Restoring the playable characters' voices (without messing up the game's text) was harder than I thought.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: lexluthermiester on October 22, 2013, 02:51:40 am
Many orbits around the sun ago I started comparing Mother 2 and EarthBound and seeing how the game was localized. I actually FINALLY finished that a little while ago here: http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/ (http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/) There's a ton of stuff, so it'll require like a full afternoon of time to read through  ;)

(http://earthboundcentral.com/image/m2eb/winters/octostatue.png)

Anyway, since I'm a crazy guy I immediately started wanting to do the same with other games, so I just went through the original Super Mario Bros. in the same way and posted it here: http://matotree.com/localization/smb/ (http://matotree.com/localization/smb/)

(http://matotree.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mariopreview.jpg)

I didn't think there'd be much to write about first, but it actually turned out pretty interesting.

Right now I'm working on one for the first Zelda game, one quick question I have is this - does anyone know the differences between the 1.0 FDS version of Zelda and the 1.1 version? I've been playing the 1.0 version, but I haven't taken a look at the 1.1 yet.

Also, any suggestions for other games that might've had interesting localizations? Right now I want to avoid super-long games like EarthBound, so I'm mostly sticking with NES and early Super NES games. But two later games I definitely want to take a look at later on are Gitaroo Man and Symphony of the Night  :)

Godslayer[J]/Crystalis[US] from SNK. I'd be very interested to know what differences there were.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Pennywise on October 22, 2013, 04:01:12 pm
Several years ago with the help of a friend, we dumped most of the text from Godslayer and Crystalis and had a translator compare the two. We found that the translation was surprisingly good despite a few minor limitations. I don't recall much if any text relating to the name of the sword being present.

Nice guy that I am for the curious or interested.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/Crystalis.zip
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on November 17, 2013, 02:25:53 pm
Awesome to see Tomato's updated his FF4 comparison after a long break. :woot!:

Even if there's one line that probably didn't leave him enough time to think about it. :D
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 17, 2013, 05:40:34 pm
Oops, did I not cover something? I go into such detail now that I actually worry that I'll miss the big stuff that should be staring me in the face  :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: BRPXQZME on November 17, 2013, 06:46:00 pm
For some reason, I seem to have noticed a few things named “[something]bringer” in games of this era; perhaps the Stormbringer mythos held some cachet amongst Japanese game creators of the late 80s / early 90s. I strongly suspect that “Deathbringer” is an oblique reference to it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on November 17, 2013, 10:51:27 pm
Oops, did I not cover something? I go into such detail now that I actually worry that I'll miss the big stuff that should be staring me in the face  :P
Nah, just felt that "Think about it." line that stumped even the amazing Tomato needed a joke made about it. :)

The only rational I can think of is... so, that's what the guardwoman says when you admit you don't have permission? Maybe like well, you should go think about asking. Even though that seems pretty out of place for the game.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on December 12, 2013, 12:16:42 am
Lots of goodies in the latest update on FFIV. Actually never noticed that they had brightened up the graphics for the Magnetic Cave on the EasyType and English versions! Awesome work as usual, Mato!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Celice on December 12, 2013, 01:45:49 am
Lots of goodies in the latest update on FFIV. Actually never noticed that they had brightened up the graphics for the Magnetic Cave on the EasyType and English versions! Awesome work as usual, Mato!
Thanks for the update! I love Mato's progress  :beer:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on December 12, 2013, 09:22:22 am
Haha, I was actually just about to post about it here but then couldn't find the topic way at the bottom of the page. Beat me to it  :P

The latest FFIV update (the magnet cave) is here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/cave-magnes/
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on December 12, 2013, 02:54:34 pm
I see you didn't mention this on the page, but I can't remember if you did somewhere else.
From the SNES manual, page 55.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/sahagin/ff4toheavy_zps1b3da189.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on December 12, 2013, 05:37:07 pm
Ooh, thanks! I totally forgot I was starting to include that pre-release stuff! I'll add that in a bit~
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on December 13, 2013, 09:17:51 pm
The page about where Rockman lives is broken. :(
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on December 14, 2013, 01:28:02 pm
Actually, that's because it wasn't ready yet, sometimes when I'm working on an article it shows up on the front page. But I fixed that last night, so hopefully there shouldn't be any more sadfaces!

http://legendsoflocalization.com/qa-does-japanese-mega-man-live-in-monsteropolis/
Title: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on November 18, 2014, 05:24:10 pm
Read through this a couple of days ago, and it was utterly fascinating.

A couple of caveats: 1) This is quite exhaustive, examining nearly every bit of NPC dialogue in the game, down to the signs you find on walls. 2) This is really kind of a smoking gun for both J2e's "retranslation" of FFIV and TOSE in general. Both are shown to be ridiculously inaccurate (Some, but not all, of the 8 Clerics in the PSX version having southern accents stands out as, in my opinion, the worst localization choice I have ever seen).

Check it out here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv (http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv)
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Celice on November 18, 2014, 11:26:18 pm
Tomato is a really cool dude. He livestreams often with his wife on twitch, live-translating stuff for fun.

http://www.twitch.tv/clydemandelin

Love his site and his work.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: vivify93 on November 19, 2014, 03:08:10 am
I love Tomato and Poe's streams! They are such cool people. I used Mato's FFIV page on Legends of Localization a lot of the time when I was doing my FFIV mod, Project II.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bregalad on November 19, 2014, 04:34:58 am
Quote
Some, but not all, of the 8 Clerics in the PSX version having southern accents stands out as, in my opinion, the worst localization choice I have ever seen
Oh, not this again. I have already said it, but I repeat : In comparison of what was available in french and other european language at that time, those translations were very well made.

If you don't belive me learn french and play the french versions of RPGs that were officially released here (Final Fantasy Adventure, Secret of Mana, Breath of Fire III, Final Fantasy VII) and you will see what is a truly bad translation.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: geishaboy on November 19, 2014, 05:13:09 am
Tomato is a really cool dude. He livestreams often with his wife on twitch, live-translating stuff for fun.

http://www.twitch.tv/clydemandelin

Love his site and his work.

Holy shit!

I always thought Tomato was a she.

The more you know.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Spooniest on November 19, 2014, 05:35:27 am
Oh, not this again. I have already said it, but I repeat : In comparison of what was available in french and other european language at that time, those translations were very well made.

If you don't belive me learn french and play the french versions of RPGs that were officially released here (Final Fantasy Adventure, Secret of Mana, Breath of Fire III, Final Fantasy VII) and you will see what is a truly bad translation.

Oh, I believe you. Note the wording of my original assertion: "In my opinion, the worst localization choice I have ever seen."

I have no doubt the translations into La Francais were probably abysmal, with how badly they've handled the English localizations.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: Bregalad on November 19, 2014, 06:57:22 am
Quote
Note the wording of my original assertion: "In my opinion, the worst localization choice I have ever seen."
My bad, I didn't pay attention.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on November 19, 2014, 12:35:04 pm
Merged these two together as we already had a topic, though it was admittedly fairly old.
Title: Re: Legends of Localization - Final Fantasy IV
Post by: tryphon on November 19, 2014, 01:48:22 pm
I have no doubt the translations into La Francais were probably abysmal, with how badly they've handled the English localizations.

They were so bad, that I prefered to play these games in English. At least the syntaxic errors and the global lack of sense was hidden to me (the same for many fansubbed anime).
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spooniest on November 19, 2014, 07:24:16 pm
Merged these two together as we already had a topic, though it was admittedly fairly old.

I could have sworn it wasn't this forum that I read that on.

:(

Oh well, the more the merrier!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on December 13, 2014, 05:06:12 pm
I was watching one of Tomato's past streams and he mentioned looking at Bubsy.
(the only game released in Japan was the SNES version of the first game, a year after the western release)

The problem I hear was that he just couldn't understand the Japanese voice actor very well after listening repeatedly to the clips.
I don't know if anyone else had better luck? (I uploaded a comparison video on youtube, with the video even being linking on several Japanese pages. As well as sending the passwords to GameFAQs.)
Darn my current PC might be too fast as it seems to actually run higan somewhat decently so I can't slow it down enough though :D (at least in the older bsnes I have) I can click the menu to make it stutter. But I'm still not sure if I'd get the sounds right.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on August 22, 2015, 02:05:04 pm
It's been a long time since I first started this thread, and I've gone through a lot of games and articles. I recently decided to take the plunge and start turning some of my work into books, starting with Zelda 1! (if this is considered advertising feel free to moderate it, I feel it's worth sharing on this old thread though)

I've posted more info on the book, future books, and FAQs about the Legends of Localization site in general here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/announcing-the-first-legends-of-localization-book/

You can sign up a for pre-order notification here: http://www.fangamer.com/products/legends-of-localization-zelda-book

And I posted a whole bunch of photos of a recent photography day just for fun: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.718357604936883.1073741827.309189339187047&type=3

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/zeldamerch.jpg)

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/zeldaglitch.jpg)

The book's coming along great and it's looking absolutely amazing. I'm also adding a lot of new content, rewriting existing content, and fixing + adding more info to content that was lacking on my site. And I own so many versions of Zelda now that I lost count :P

If you think there's anything I've missed on my site that I should include in the print version, let me know! My deadline for finishing everything up is really soon.

(Bonus: I got a rare Japanese board game of the first Zelda game and opened it up on stream the other day! https://youtu.be/upGNkOI2gE8?list=PL8fufren85t977dKqRouxheOB4KEMccs_&t=86 )
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on August 22, 2015, 07:24:14 pm
If you think there's anything I've missed on my site that I should include in the print version, let me know! My deadline for finishing everything up is really soon.
According to some sites, an uncredited Keiji Terui wrote the manual background story, see: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Keiji_Terui (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Keiji_Terui) He's credited for scenario on the Japanese wikipedia page.  If he just was the manual writer or if he also came up with the story, I don't know. In the past it usually has been reported that Tezuka came up with the story.

The programmer I. Marui is still an enigma.

Not that relevant but the nice FDS flyer you have, had a few revisions made. Early ones, display slightly different artwork of the princess. See:http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/1980s/FDS_Flyer_Zelda.jpg (http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/1980s/FDS_Flyer_Zelda.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on August 23, 2015, 11:05:24 am
Some side mention about Zelda 1's SFC remake as a Satellaview project on a stict timer developed by interns, but with dungeons themed as ST GIGA (named after the company providing the radio service), I guess? It also did the male/female protagonist choice years ahead of what some gaming sites would like to credit.
And since you're doing Zelda 2 as well, there's that SNES tech demo screenshot showing off kanji, and some of the music for that cancelled game (alongside beta SMW graphics) in a leaked NoA internal technical support cartridge.

And...
That the extra NPC sprites in Zelda 2's English edition were just possible thanks to Nintendo over-writing the kana font? Explaining their obsession with righting that wrong with the canned SFC remake which has room in the VRAM this time for kana, the improved lady sprite (also seen in that screenshot), the kanji, and then some more!

The Loto joke involves, well, Loto (Dragon Quest), Zelda 2 (Here lies Loto), Final Fantasy (Here lies Link / Erdrick), and Tengai Makyou 2 (a whole graveyard with Loto, Mario, and Adol of Ys fame). The whole area in Zelda 2 was removed in the US version and the text replaced internally with "NOTHING.".

If you could make up an excuse to fit in a mention of Marvelous Mouhitotsu no Takarajima (originally a SNES-CD game with FMVs using the Zelda 3 engine, Eiji Aonuma's very first game then was split to a SNES game and two BS-X spin-offs - a GC revival was eventually dolled-up as a Zelda game, namely Navi's Trackers), please do, by all means.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on August 23, 2015, 05:09:05 pm
The Loto joke involves, well, Loto (Dragon Quest), Zelda 2 (Here lies Loto), Final Fantasy (Here lies Link / Erdrick), and Tengai Makyou 2 (a whole graveyard with Loto, Mario, and Adol of Ys fame). The whole area in Zelda 2 was removed in the US version and the text replaced internally with "NOTHING.".
Only the text was removed, the Dragon Quest reference is found in the Town of Saria. You might be thinking of the King's Tomb area which was altered and instead received an NPC with a line of text not in the Japanese version.

As for possible things worthy to include in your Zelda book, the NES version included the "Maps and Strategies" most likely due to Nintendo of America's fear that people would find the game to hard to understand. IMO it was a bit overkill as the manual itself was a big guide in itself. In the end I guess they did the right decision due to the crude localization within the game and manual. The original FDS version didn't include it but the Japanese re-release on cartridge did. Nintendo of America would later treat Zelda III with a very similar extra not found in its Japanese counterpart.

EDIT: Perhaps you could cover some of the more poorly translated tips in the manual. One of my favorites: "In the caves where people live are invisible closed doors. How to open them? That's a secret, too." :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on September 24, 2015, 01:08:45 pm
Just thought I would post this. Unfortunately I don't have the context for these but I assume they come from a development piece in a Japanese magazine.

(http://i.imgur.com/1L1pxOV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/w5Hc4r3.jpg)

The Triforce goes by the name Power Triangle, the dungeon map is quite different and instead of their levels the dungeons all went by their names at this point. The regular NES font is used etc. Man, there must be a ton of cool little stuff about many of our favorite games out there in various japanese magazines we have never seen.
Title: .
Post by: Chpexo on September 24, 2015, 08:20:37 pm
.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 26, 2015, 01:38:37 am
Whoa, that's some awesome stuff!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on September 26, 2015, 05:48:01 am
Thanks for that magazine scan! I reverse-image-searched it and it let me to a French site with other scans that had multiple differences. I have no doubt in my mind there exists some prototypes of these differences but they're in a collector's hands by now.
The photos was posted on twitter two years ago by a guy named John Ricciardi.

What I found most interesting about it, is that the double-size moon dungeon on that picture suggests that the story told in the Iwata Asks http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/ds/zelda/1/5 (http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/ds/zelda/1/5) how the second quest came about due to Tezuka's mistake of only using half of the available data, may not be the entire story.
Title: .
Post by: Chpexo on September 26, 2015, 11:48:03 am
.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on September 27, 2015, 10:04:57 am
Good stuff. I'm actually creating a pre-release article on TCRF.net so this information is valuable to me. I also cited you for that interesting observation; I hope you don't mind. A link (feel free to edit if you have an account if you know what you're doing):

https://tcrf.net/User:Chpexo/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda
Cool, I don't mind. I do have an account over there so I might add some things if I come up with something. You might want to mention the different color of the Magical Rod in that pic I posted. In case you are unaware, there are many more proto or beta graphics to be found in the manuals. You might want to add these, page numbers are for FDS manual...

The screen on page 16 contains Octoroks instead of Tektites.

The Enemy Bait on page 24 is a beta version (also seen in that magazine photo I posted).

The Old Man on page 27 is a bit different from the final ones. (see the beard)

The Octoroks on page 28 are beta. (see their eyes)

Ghinis on page 29 are beta, the Lynels might be.

Page 34, Gel and Stalfos are beta, the bat might also be an early look.

The Dodongo and Aquamentus are early versions. The mini patra and trap are as well. And Digdogger and Gleeok looks suspicious but it might just be due to poor screenshots.

The rocky area outside level 2 in the screen on page 17 in the NES manual has a different color to the final game. Also, early versions of Darknut and Pols Voice in NES manuals.

I guess this is all a little off topic, I hope you don't mind Mato.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on September 28, 2015, 12:42:33 pm
Nope, I'm glad to be seeing this! I missed a lot of this about the manual, so it's cool new info to me!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on September 29, 2015, 01:26:15 am
As for early versions of stuff being in manuals and etc, Robocop Vs The Terminator(Genesis version) does a few. There are some different weapon graphics in it than in the final game, and the back of the box has a different boss for Level 2 than the actual boss(It also places the boss earlier in the level, meaning it was extended after they moved the boss).

Not Japanese related, I know, but I thought some people here might find it interesting.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on October 20, 2015, 12:05:09 pm
Mato, recently I checked the manuals for The Legend of Zelda and I noticed something I had not given a thought before even though I'm a big old school Zelda nerd. In the short "to get you started guide" on page 41, the iconic old man that gives Link the sword is described as "...the old man who lives on the island."

(http://i.imgur.com/N3Vdczm.jpg)

Perhaps this is only news to me, but I never knew the overworld in the original game was intended to be part of an island back in '86. The artwork on the Japanese cover certainly gives you a treasure island vibe. My Japanese is extremely limited but it seems like this is described at this point in the Japanese manual as well, am I right?. I know I'm late with this question and perhaps you have already covered it in your upcoming book. If not, perhaps you could shed some light on this tiny detail in a short LOL-site article sometime.

Hope your book does well so that you can continue with your awesome work in book-form!  :beer:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on October 21, 2015, 02:39:04 pm
I do cover this part of the manual a tiny bit in the book but I didn't bring up the island part. The Japanese manual does say "island" too.

The book is already in the proofing stage so I can't really add any more content to it... at the moment. We got some weird pages in the back for additional content, I should start making a list of things like this :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on October 22, 2015, 07:36:01 am
Well, it's next to impossible to cover every little minutiae of the game. The main thing is the localization process after all. Thanks for the confirmation anyway. The weird pages sounds intriguing.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on October 22, 2015, 11:57:13 pm
I do cover this part of the manual a tiny bit in the book but I didn't bring up the island part. The Japanese manual does say "island" too.

The book is already in the proofing stage so I can't really add any more content to it... at the moment. We got some weird pages in the back for additional content, I should start making a list of things like this :P
For "update patches" maybe you could've sold updated pages for the user to literally patch the book.

(that idea is largely joking but if there's someone who would actually do something that strange it might be Fangamer and you ;D )
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Turambar on October 23, 2015, 02:50:09 am
The Zelda 1 overworld is supposedly at the bottom of Death Mountain in Zelda 2, and if that is true then it doesn't seem right to call the Zelda 1 overworld an "island."
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on October 23, 2015, 07:44:07 am
The Zelda 1 overworld is supposedly at the bottom of Death Mountain in Zelda 2, and if that is true then it doesn't seem right to call the Zelda 1 overworld an "island."
The overworld as being part of an island doesn't exactly match the background story of the game either. The background story describe how Zelda hid the small parts of the Triforce throughout the land, it implies the setting is the countryside in or around the small kingdom, not something as specific as just an island. As far as I know the example I provided is the only mention of an island in the manual.

But at some part during development before any sequels, it's possible an island may have been an intended setting for the game, or the one who wrote the short step by step guide may have been unaware of the setting and assumed the overworld was an island based on the artwork of the overworld which I admit can easily be mistaken for an island. Probably just a tiny mistake. The thin background story they came up with for the game is not exactly the strongest and most important part of the game. It was most likely one of the last things they applied.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on October 23, 2015, 10:52:18 am
For "update patches" maybe you could've sold updated pages for the user to literally patch the book.

(that idea is largely joking but if there's someone who would actually do something that strange it might be Fangamer and you ;D )

We're actually doing something along these lines, I'm that crazy
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 26, 2015, 12:37:36 am
My Zelda book's finally available to buy! http://www.fangamer.com/products/legends-of-localization-zelda-book

The deluxe bundle comes with a bunch of cool extras if you happen to be one of the first 500!

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/A1-320x180.jpg) (http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/product_book_LoL_1LoZ_spread6_1024x1024-320x180.jpg)
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/A3-320x180.jpg) (http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/A2-320x180.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UWBbzxshlo
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on December 25, 2015, 06:52:01 pm
My deluxe bundle just arrived in time for Christmas, the timing couldn't have been better. :) Have only started to read it but it's obvious that a lot of love went into this. You sir, your wife and Fangamer have done an incredible job on this. The book is beautiful and the passport was a brilliant idea.  Crap, now I feel ashamed I haven't finished my patch. :(

On the subject of the series currency, I believe the Tips & Tactics guide first called them "Rupee" and "Rupees" before the SNES game. Crazy how many names a simple thing as the games currency went by back then, didn't know about the Nintendo Fun Club naming.  :laugh: I wish the Zelda III localization had continued with rupy/rupies as it feels more fitting to me than the real world currency name...

Thanks for this wonderful Christmas gift, love it!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 25, 2015, 07:13:08 pm
"rupies" - Sounds like an STD. I def prefer rupees.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on December 26, 2015, 01:18:38 pm
Cool, glad you like the book, KillerBob! You're in the Thanks section too, BTW :P

I checked the Tips & Tactics book again, it looks like it went with Rubies, at least in the game intro/mechanics section:

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/tipstacticsrubies.jpg)

It's possible it says Rupees elsewhere though, I haven't re-read the whole thing in a while.

Looking forward to your patch too!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on December 26, 2015, 01:38:12 pm
225 Rubies are the maximum? Guess you can never afford the Blue Ring. :D
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on December 26, 2015, 05:22:57 pm
Huh? Interesting. There was apparently a revision made:

(http://i.imgur.com/sZFGt0J.jpg)
Scan taken from zeldalegends.net

Talking about revisions, I noticed when I read your book that the name for the Magical Shield was fixed in the Japanese FDS manual at some point, most likely for version 1.1. See the scan used in your online article vs. the book.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on December 26, 2015, 06:07:35 pm
Interesting, I wonder when that reprint happened. My hunch is that it was around the time the gray NES re-release happened, since A Link to the Past would've been out by then I think.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on December 26, 2015, 06:36:36 pm
I can't find any reprint date or updated copyright on the scans I'm looking at (I don't own a copy myself) will try to find out. But yeah, I agree, you're probably right about this.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Almagest on January 16, 2016, 09:43:12 pm
Breath of Fire IV's censorship (slightly NSFW and contains spoilers!) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffBff_uPK5s)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on April 15, 2016, 07:21:58 pm
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/eblolcard.jpg)

I've been working on the next Legends of Localization book about EarthBound (you can sign up for release notification here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/book ), and it's going to be HUGE. I'm expecting it to be between 300 and 400 pages, yikes.

Anyway, every so often I have questions that I have trouble answering myself so I thought I'd post some of them here once in a while if that's okay.

Right now I'm trying to think of what games in the 90s had alcohol censored in some way, whether it was bars turning to cafes or actual alcohol changing to something else. All that comes to mind right now is FF4 and FF6, but I know there's a lot more than that!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spinner 8 on April 15, 2016, 07:38:41 pm
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/eblolcard.jpg)

I've been working on the next Legends of Localization book about EarthBound (you can sign up for release notification here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/book ), and it's going to be HUGE. I'm expecting it to be between 300 and 400 pages, yikes.

Anyway, every so often I have questions that I have trouble answering myself so I thought I'd post some of them here once in a while if that's okay.

Right now I'm trying to think of what games in the 90s had alcohol censored in some way, whether it was bars turning to cafes or actual alcohol changing to something else. All that comes to mind right now is FF4 and FF6, but I know there's a lot more than that!

I definitely remember a drunk guy in Brave Fencer Musashi having had "a little too much caffeine"

EDIT: found a (pretty insufferable) video: https://youtu.be/ZgNcgMKp_Mc?t=525

ANOTHER EDIT: Japanese version: https://youtu.be/2Gu-T8HQsDo?t=324
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: danke on April 15, 2016, 09:10:14 pm
In Pokemon Red/Green (Japanese versions), your path is blocked by an old man who is passed-out drunk. In Red/Blue (American versions), he just hasn't had his coffee yet.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Old_man_%28Kanto%29 (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Old_man_%28Kanto%29)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Gideon Zhi on April 15, 2016, 09:22:39 pm
In Pokemon Red/Green (Japanese versions), your path is blocked by an old man who is passed-out drunk. In Red/Blue (American versions), he just hasn't had his coffee yet.

This is actually really clever! I approve of this.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on April 15, 2016, 10:04:51 pm
I already told you in an email, Mato but Secret of the Stars had a town of drunks. Changed to a town of lazy people in the localization.
I've recorded some clips and I'll get them uploaded soon.

Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D4qQ1g5ljs)
USA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFKvqWWlhqg)

Also, Estpolis Denki (at least the two SNES games) had various kinds of booze you could buy that would increase (various?) stats when used in battle, or restore HP when used outside of battle. In the localizations (Lufia), they were changed to various flavors of cider.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: shadowmanwkp on April 20, 2016, 06:48:55 am
Also, Estpolis Denki (at least the two SNES games) had various kinds of booze you could buy that would increase (various?) stats when used in battle, or restore HP when used outside of battle. In the localizations (Lufia), they were changed to various flavors of cider.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't cider alcoholic?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: USC on April 20, 2016, 08:00:50 am
It's probably referring to apple cider, which is not alcoholic. It seems to be an American thing - everyone else immediately thinks of "hard" cider.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spooniest on April 20, 2016, 08:50:59 am
In America, the first thing someone thinks of when they hear "cider" is "apple cider," which is a nonalcoholic drink, yeah.

"Cider" outside the States seems to exclusively refer to an alcoholic drink.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on April 20, 2016, 10:40:00 am
Indeed in America, apple cider is probably the first thing they think (https://youtu.be/It0-9cF2uUM?t=34s) of.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: tryphon on April 20, 2016, 12:20:16 pm
How do you call "real" (i.e with apples AND alcohol) cider then ?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Spooniest on April 20, 2016, 01:00:32 pm
"Hard Cider" we call it.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on April 20, 2016, 02:16:35 pm
Right now I'm trying to think of what games in the 90s had alcohol censored in some way, whether it was bars turning to cafes or actual alcohol changing to something else. All that comes to mind right now is FF4 and FF6, but I know there's a lot more than that!
A bar in Final Fight was changed to a club, see: http://rq87.flyingomelette.com/FF/F/1/SNESr.html

Koopa's and Peach's victory animations in Super Mario Kart depict them drinking champagne.

JP: (https://tcrf.net/images/d/dc/Smk_bowser_1st_animated_jp.gif)  International: (https://tcrf.net/images/1/10/Smk_bowser_1st_animated_us.gif)

JP: (https://tcrf.net/images/a/a2/Smk_princess_1st_animated_jp.gif)  International: (https://tcrf.net/images/9/90/Smk_princess_1st_animated_us.gif)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on April 20, 2016, 03:04:54 pm
Demon's Crest has an item shop with all kinds of toxic substances serving as healing potions... and then the full HP potion is inexplicably Gingseng in the localization. It was Mandragora in the JP version but since it was hallucinogenic NoA vetoed it.
And I think the SaGa game with opium dealers (changed to banana dealers) counts too?

Terranigma (initially done by NoA but ultimately not published by them) has a few changes like orphanages turned into schools.

And the budget 3D remake for PS2/GC (2003) for Tengai Makyou II (originally on PCE, 1992) as well as its emulated releases for DS and PSP (but oddly not Virtual Console) kept most times where sake appears but changed the few instances where the underage hero (if the player goes out of their way) can actually drink it, to water.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on April 20, 2016, 07:14:02 pm
Whoa, thanks for the examples! I didn't know about a lot of these even though I've played the localized games before. I got a lot of learning to do  :beer:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on April 20, 2016, 10:22:31 pm
Oh, btw, there's Septentrion too. It's an escape room game for SNES about making it out of a sinking ship and helping other survivors. The SNES localization (SOS) removed the door leading to the bar and the three drunken survivors. Meeting or saving those three becomes impossible.

And the bird throwing beer mugs at Wario in Wario Land 2 to make him drunk, throws black iron balls instead.

And inexplicably, the French versions of A Link to the Past and Illusion of Gaia reverted some characters to their drunkard selves.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on April 21, 2016, 10:11:02 am
Legend of Dragoon changed the spell Demon's Gate.  One could say it's censored, but not quite in the way you'd expect:

Outside Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3cG7u7SaMk)
Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCqvHUk-qMw)

Also since Pokemon Red/Blue was mentioned, in Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Gamblers were changed to Gamers upon localization.  They're Gamblers in Red/Blue/Yellow.  Gamblers actually returned in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, but they were localized to PIs (as in Private Investigator) for some reason.  Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald also changed a few sprites.  I'll just leave the TCRF link on that one. (https://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Ruby_and_Sapphire#Trainer_Sprites)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on April 21, 2016, 05:12:01 pm
Wow that is a spell about magical periods killing enemies alright
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: SunGodPortal on April 22, 2016, 12:20:46 am
Legend of Dragoon changed the spell Demon's Gate.  One could say it's censored, but not quite in the way you'd expect:

Outside Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3cG7u7SaMk)
Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCqvHUk-qMw)

LMAO! OMG that's insane. hahaha
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: jink640 on April 22, 2016, 01:48:43 am
Legend of Dragoon changed the spell Demon's Gate.  One could say it's censored, but not quite in the way you'd expect:

Outside Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3cG7u7SaMk)
Japan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCqvHUk-qMw)
I think that the finished product removed an animation which had Ros'e stabbing herself for that magic. But in the end it just decided that periods can open gates to hell.  :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on April 22, 2016, 03:22:32 pm
I think that the finished product removed an animation which had Ros'e stabbing herself for that magic. But in the end it just decided that periods can open gates to hell.  :P
I've heard of that before!  There's a magazine picture using a beta that some say supports it, because the character's in a pose that isn't used in the game.  I can't find it for the life of me though, I guess my Google-Fu's too weak. :P
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: jink640 on April 22, 2016, 07:19:54 pm
I've heard of that before!  There's a magazine picture using a beta that some say supports it, because the character's in a pose that isn't used in the game.  I can't find it for the life of me though, I guess my Google-Fu's too weak. :P
Looks like it may have been in the German manual.
https://youtu.be/1Q_bWOS3AYQ?t=2m36s (https://youtu.be/1Q_bWOS3AYQ?t=2m36s)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on April 23, 2016, 03:39:12 pm
I guess the people localizing Legend of Dragoon wanted that badly to have something as ridiculous as Mortal Kombat's white "blood".

But in the end it just decided that periods can open gates to hell.  :P

Demon's Gate is "Hell's Gate" in the JP version, you're spot on.
Funny how SCEA wanted that changed when they were the ones adding profanity (hell, fuck, etc) to the originally tame Final Fantasy 7's script to make it look more edgy than the stuff on Nintendo consoles. I wonder what happened in between both releases (and Breath of Fire 4, for that matter)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: I.S.T. on April 23, 2016, 04:13:17 pm
BOF4 was localized by Capcom, so it doesn't really count.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on April 25, 2016, 10:31:23 pm
Can you guys think of any games from the 80s/90s that use the word "crap" (or anything of that level or stronger) in them, besides EarthBound? I'm reminded of this but it's all I can think of

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ogre-battle-64-bitching-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Revenant on April 26, 2016, 01:54:14 am
Mega Man 7 comes to mind:

(http://i.imgur.com/dxa9S8E.jpg)

(couldn't easily find a better screenshot than this weirdly dark one on GameFAQs)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: vivify93 on April 26, 2016, 03:52:07 am
Breath of Fire II. The Gold Fly says "Ugh.. damn" when it dies, and Sten calls the war he was in "hell". Are we counting PSone games, or are we stopping in mid-1990's? Because I know a lot of PSone games that would qualify, hahaha.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: SunGodPortal on April 26, 2016, 04:01:46 am
Quote
Are we counting PSone games, or are we stopping in mid-1990's? Because I know a lot of PSone games that would qualify, hahaha.

If so, I can remember Duke Nukem saying "It's time to kick ass and chew bubble-gum... and I'm aaaaaall out of gum". :)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Revenant on April 26, 2016, 09:05:37 am
I think we can probably exclude games like Duke that were given an M rating, though.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on April 26, 2016, 11:43:01 am
Yep, just anything from the 80s to around 2000 is okay, doesn't matter which system. Although if a game's already rated mature then seeing a "bad" word isn't as interesting  :angel:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on April 26, 2016, 02:07:20 pm
Since I had mentioned LoD last (1999 so it counts), the prison is nammed Hellena.  Before the first visit there the commander (first boss, but is your normal beginning battle pushover) says you're going "not to hellena, to hell."  There's more than that and I know it including some damns.  Nothing worse than that however.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on April 27, 2016, 09:41:53 pm
Can you guys think of any games from the 80s/90s that use the word "crap" (or anything of that level or stronger) in them, besides EarthBound?
The localization of Hitler's Revival: Top Secret managed to get a "damn" past the censors. Hitler or "Master-D" as he was known as in Bionic Commando says "You damn fool." right before the infamous exploding head scene. That the actual death sequence got past the censors is of course more surprising.

You also got the cheesy DK Rap - intro to Donkey Kong 64, where they introduce Chunky Kong with "But this kong's one hell of a guy!" Pretty innocent stuff, but knowing Nintendo's MO...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on April 30, 2016, 03:14:51 pm
Terranigma has "Dam!", and of course this classic "I don't know who you are, but thank you for arousing me."
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on April 30, 2016, 10:30:33 pm
It's not a game but I'm remembering "hell" on Rugrats once (the original 1991-1993 series). I want to say it was a line "It's raining like hell out there." But it's been a long time since I watched the show.

Pretty sure Lufia: The Legend Returns (2001, GBC) had "damn" near the beginning when Gades first appears (I think it was like Gades introuduces himself as Gades, Sinistral of Destruction and the hero replies "Damn... have you destroyed your own mind?"). But that is my memory from playing a short bit of the game in 2002. And that game got E.

But Dragon Warrior III for GBC (also released in 2001) was rated T, possibly for various "hell" enemies, like Hellhound.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Turambar on May 01, 2016, 01:00:12 pm
At the end of Mega Man X3, X says damn.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on May 02, 2016, 01:43:55 am
Also, the Metal Gear secret password that could possibly be the reason NoA banned vowels from passwords.
(I recall the password was "FUCK YOU (... some personal message from one dev to another)" but even just the first word was enough to get SOMETHING.
(Metroid has a valid password ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER F***** but I'm almost positive that is just a coincidental valid "random" password. One whose binary representation happens to match the checksum test. It does nothing useful, as after the game verifies it, it jumps to invalid code (from tracing in an emulator, it seemed to cause the MMC1 PRG setup register to get set incorrectly, breaking PRG bankswaps.) On a real console, it crashes on a black screen. On an emulator you might get different results depending on how it handles invalid opcodes. Like I think FCEUX puts Samus in a glitched version of the Brinstar starting room, but scrolling doesn't work. Nintendo's emulator for GBA seems to handle invalid opcodes by auto-resetting.)
Even the JUSTIN BAILEY password seems to be incidental. I think the only intentionally programmed Metroid secret passwords are the NARPAS SWORD debug passwords.

Many, many Japanese-developed games thus needed their password systems changed in some ways for western release.
Just a couple examples:
Adventures of Lolo 3 (Lolo 2 Japan) for NES replaced the vowels with symbols.
Mickey Mouse IV for the Game Boy, shifted vowels out of the password character set, shifting numbers into the end so the same total number of characters was the same in the localizations (The Real Ghostbusters in NA and Garfield Labyrinth in EU, both western versions use the same censored password set). (that game has a lot of other localizations but you could probably write a LoL book on Kemco alone... though there's probably not enough of a demand to actually do that. ;) )
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: MontyMole on May 02, 2016, 10:20:53 am
Quote
(Metroid has a valid password ENGAGE RIDLEY MOTHER F***** but I'm almost positive that is just a coincidental valid "random" password. One whose binary representation happens to match the checksum test. It does nothing useful, as after the game verifies it, it jumps to invalid code (from tracing in an emulator, it seemed to cause the MMC1 PRG setup register to get set incorrectly, breaking PRG bankswaps.) On a real console, it crashes on a black screen. On an emulator you might get different results depending on how it handles invalid opcodes. Like I think FCEUX puts Samus in a glitched version of the Brinstar starting room, but scrolling doesn't work. Nintendo's emulator for GBA seems to handle invalid opcodes by auto-resetting.)
Tried that out in Nintendulator and got the non scrolling Brinstar version, also tried in Nestopia but it just gave me a CPU jam.

Also I never ever got the Justin Bailey code to work on my European version of Metroid back in the day, the same goes with passwords for Castlevania 2 and Kid Icarus.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on May 02, 2016, 01:04:59 pm
Game Boy localization strangeness:

so from what I've read, Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 was first released in Japan with a Japanese title screen but later prints (in Japan) used the international ROM (with English title screen).

Taz-Mania (Sunsoft): From the No-Intro database, it seems the game was released in Europe with a box/cart title something like Looney Tunes 2: Tazmanian Devil in Christmas Island Capers, but the game used the same ROM as the US version ("Taz-Mania", with consistent naming between the game and packaging :) ), including the title screen. Year later, THQ released a sequel titled Taz-Mania II. Though the game was a modification of another crappy license game ("We're Back: A Dinosaur's Story" in the US, We're Back released under multiple license variants in EU/AU). But THQ just titled Taz 2 "Taz-Mania" in Europe.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: GHANMI on May 02, 2016, 03:55:36 pm
Many, many Japanese-developed games thus needed their password systems changed in some ways for western release.
Just a couple examples:
Adventures of Lolo 3 (Lolo 2 Japan) for NES replaced the vowels with symbols.
Mickey Mouse IV for the Game Boy, shifted vowels out of the password character set, shifting numbers into the end so the same total number of characters was the same in the localizations (The Real Ghostbusters in NA and Garfield Labyrinth in EU, both western versions use the same censored password set).

It was indeed Metal Gear's "FUCKME 11111..." that warped the player to the final boss with almost no weapons behind that policy (one can see how people thought it was intentional).

That policy persisted, even later.
Ganbare Goemon is in all caps precisely for this reason. A lower-case character set exists in the US ROM, but it has all of its vowels removed, and then after it are some symbols.
Same thing happened for Little Samson on the NES (hence why the password data is spelling legible words in JP version but gibberish in US one), but it got away with it thanks to not having much text anyways.
Maui Mallard's SNES port/remake is missing vowels that were present in the Megadrive version, but it's still possible to force the RAM with cheats to use them - and in fact the devs hid some debug passwords (all using vowels) this way.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on May 02, 2016, 04:40:18 pm
In Pokemon Red/Green (Japanese versions), your path is blocked by an old man who is passed-out drunk. In Red/Blue (American versions), he just hasn't had his coffee yet.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Old_man_%28Kanto%29 (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Old_man_%28Kanto%29)
Here's what I understand about this:

-Outside of Japan he yells at you about how this is private property and you're not supposed to cross.  In the original text it's unintelligible drunken garble.  At least from what I can gather.

-Opinions are divided on what happens next: some uncensoring efforts just replace the coffee with alcohol.  The original text seems to talk about waiting for the passed out drunk guy to wake up or something, and occasionally it's been said that he needs the coffee to sober up with (which would be a compromise I guess).

-After you've given Oak his package, he mentions a headache before asking you about your Pokedex.  Outside of Japan he's had his coffee and he feels great!

-In G/S/C/HG/SS you meet him again, in the Japaneese text the old man gives a drunken hic before talking.  Outside of Japan he's wired from a double shot of espresso.

EDIT: It actually isn't a bunch of drunken garble. (https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/pokemon-redblue-old-man-in-viridian-citys-dialogue-comparison-jp-vs-eng/)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 24, 2016, 01:56:45 am
It's been a long road, but the EarthBound Legends of Localization book is finally out (http://legendsoflocalization.com/book2)!

(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/product_lol_book2_eb_vanity1_1024x1024-1.jpg)

And here are some related videos:
Thanks again to everyone who offered tips and suggestions along the way. I'm super-happy with how the book turned out, and I hope you'll give it a look sometime!

(btw, Fangamer is doing free US shipping and 50% off international IPA shipping this week, which is a HUGE deal given how heavy the book is)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on December 09, 2016, 06:32:22 pm
Here's an oddity I ran into while making up Chrono Trigger's bugfix addendum: In SNES it's named Hurricane, in DS it's named Headman's Scythe, but in reality... Magus has an icepick weapon? (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Hurricane.html)

I don't quite understand why even the DS localization didn't reference that at all, but even I kept it as-is in the hack because I didn't have many good ideas that fit into the menu space (only thing I had was Blizzard to reference the original).  I wonder if this had some sort of joke attached to it originally?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Seihen on December 10, 2016, 06:21:43 am
It's not QUITE an ice pick. That's inaccurate. It's actually a "haken" (the German name), which is a mountain climbing tool otherwise referred to by its French name, a piton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piton

So that would probably be a more accurate translation, though few people have any clue what it is...
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on December 10, 2016, 08:29:19 am
It's not QUITE an ice pick. That's inaccurate. It's actually a "haken" (the German name), which is a mountain climbing tool otherwise referred to by its French name, a piton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piton

So that would probably be a more accurate translation, though few people have any clue what it is...
Ah, I see!  Some of these are shaped in a way that would make sense.  Wait a minute, they all start with H... theorizing here, but maybe everyone knew after all but thought both words were too obscure to use with the target audience?  It's been known to happen. :o
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on November 26, 2017, 10:07:53 pm
Mato has now released his Google Translated Final Fantasy IV patches.
Beware that Mato has released the patches with the uncensored machine translations (though sometimes altered for space limits, though I think he let a machine also alter for space limits. Perhaps to have as little human intervention in the content as possible). Yes, Google sometimes had a very dirty mouth, to give a warning.
http://legendsoflocalization.com/funky-fantasy-iv/

Two versions since it resulted in two very different kinds of nonsense.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Tomato on November 27, 2017, 06:28:08 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot to update about that, thanks! What makes it especially interesting is that I did the translation just as Google was updating its system to use neural network A.I., so I wound up with two versions of the game: one translated before the Google switch and one after.

The whole project was so weird and surprising that I went and wrote a book about it (https://www.fangamer.com/products/press-start-to-translate-legends-of-localization-book). It even includes a few pages of ROM hacking discussion!
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/press-start-to-translate-google-translate-final-fantasy-iv-2-640x360.jpg)
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/press-start-to-translate-funky-fantasy-5-540x360.jpg)
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/press-start-to-translate-funky-fantasy-6-540x360.jpg)

Oh yeah and I did an entire book about bad game translations (https://www.fangamer.com/products/this-be-book-bad-translation-video-games) earlier in the year!
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/book1-540x360.jpg)
(http://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/book4-540x360.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on January 02, 2018, 07:15:43 am
Nice redesign of your site. :thumbsup: Those FFIV-fan translation examples in your latest update looks like a bad parody. Very interesting as always.

Are you still planning to make a LOL-book out of your Super Mario Bros. article? Perhaps too little material to make into a book, but it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on January 02, 2018, 12:07:01 pm
It sounded like a part of Mato's SMB book would be talking about not just the game itself but its cultural impact. And why he/Fangamer had amassed as many copies of the game from around the world as they could.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KillerBob on January 04, 2018, 04:07:40 am
It sounded like a part of Mato's SMB book would be talking about not just the game itself but its cultural impact. And why he/Fangamer had amassed as many copies of the game from around the world as they could.
Ah, ok. Sounds great.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: ObiKKa on January 04, 2018, 05:24:19 pm
Oh yeah, I ordered Tomato's '...Be Book Bad...' book last October of 2017 and picked it up in November, I think. Hilarious. Must-have!

Oh, hang on. The first three photos from Tomato's post above actually shows his OTHER newer book which I detected on the new stuff page of that shop, while the bottom two photos are for the book that I ordered before the newer book came out. That's why I didn't know about the newer book.

It's called: press start to translate: This is what happens when you let a computer translate a video game?
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: Chronosplit on January 05, 2018, 02:49:08 pm
Ah, I see!  Some of these are shaped in a way that would make sense.  Wait a minute, they all start with H... theorizing here, but maybe everyone knew after all but thought both words were too obscure to use with the target audience?  It's been known to happen. :o
Oh boy, I thought this convo had died in the general.  Wish I knew that I could've dug it up while talking about Hurricane in Personal Projects.  Oh well, it got nailed right either way. :laugh:
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on January 06, 2018, 02:15:40 am
To me it sounds like a rather specific question that maybe had enough discussion for its own thread.
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: thepatrickinator on January 12, 2018, 03:51:53 pm
The reason why Bad English exists is because of censorship and deadlines as said by reading This be book bad translation, video games!
Title: Re: Comparing game localizations
Post by: KingMike on January 13, 2018, 12:57:26 pm
Those are certainly two common reasons but others can include budgeting or inexperience (as was common in the 8-bit era, they often clearly hired people who knew English well enough to communicate but not on the same level of understanding as most native speakers). I don't think it was until the '90s that there was much concern to polish the translations so they sounded natural.