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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on February 25, 2011, 11:24:00 pm

Title: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: RHDNBot on February 25, 2011, 11:24:00 pm
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1076a.png)

Update By: Lenophis

It's been a while since we've had any public discussion about this one, but now is not the time for talk. It's time for action. That's right, THE FF6 Hack gets a public demo, and one that is long overdue. What does this mean?



Some of the changes you may (or may not) find during this demo:


Going into further detail would be long, boring, and tl;dr. In the end, after four years of work to this date, we think many will be pleased. However, since this is the internet, and for some it's real life, we know that not everyone will be happy with some changes.

On behalf of the whole team, we thank everyone for their patience, their suggestions, and their feedback with this hack.

But enough talk, have at it (http://slickproductions.org/ff6patches.php)! Make sure you read the readme, because nobody can help you if you don't.

Relevant Link: (http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=4.0)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: andrewclunn on February 26, 2011, 03:34:31 pm
First error I encountered was that when I was changing my battle commands back and forth from long and short, that my color settings for the window suddenly reverted back to default.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on February 26, 2011, 03:47:15 pm
Before anyone asks what ROM to patch with: Use Final Fantasy III's original release, as identified by NSRT; this is the only one XDelta will accept for this hack.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on February 26, 2011, 03:56:49 pm
Thanks Kiyoshi, that might fix my problem.

Edit: I just checked NSRT and the 1.0 I have (from a very popular website) wasn't in the database, and Pandora's is basically unplayable with this ROM.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Spinner 8 on February 26, 2011, 04:21:59 pm
Hmm, that's weird! And I was told just the other day that RHDN news submissions would be denied unless they had their own corresponding RHDN project page. Was this unwritten rule recently changed?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 26, 2011, 04:30:45 pm
First error I encountered was that when I was changing my battle commands back and forth from long and short, that my color settings for the window suddenly reverted back to default.
Took me a bit to find this, but I eventually did. Turns out there's a branch error, and the code jumps to another jump table instead of an RTS. Oh, the fun of hand-editing assembly before being smart about it. :crazy:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Ryusui on February 26, 2011, 05:29:40 pm
I remember the days of caveman code hacks. I actually made some decent progress on Z Gundam: Away to the Newtype, G Gundam and Sylvanian Families 5 before I realized the process was likely to drive me stark raving mad. :3
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on February 26, 2011, 05:53:52 pm
Thanks Kiyoshi, that might fix my problem.

Edit: I just checked NSRT and the 1.0 I have (from a very popular website) wasn't in the database, and Pandora's is basically unplayable with this ROM.

Then that 'very popular website' is distributing a wrong version. :V
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: andrewclunn on February 26, 2011, 06:13:20 pm
First error I encountered was that when I was changing my battle commands back and forth from long and short, that my color settings for the window suddenly reverted back to default.
Took me a bit to find this, but I eventually did. Turns out there's a branch error, and the code jumps to another jump table instead of an RTS. Oh, the fun of hand-editing assembly before being smart about it. :crazy:

Yeah, not trying to be a jerk.  Overall I'm liking the extras (a purposefully losing battles to see the special game overs).  Just trying to keep you abreast of bugs as I see them.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 26, 2011, 06:49:31 pm
Yeah, not trying to be a jerk.
By all means, be a jerk. We need to find what out what we missed, one way or another. :angel:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: andrewclunn on February 26, 2011, 08:18:16 pm
Hahaha.  Glad I had a save state.  I tried to cheat to continue the play test without power leveling...  Nice touch  :thumbsup:

EDIT -

Hmmm.  I set Terra to use her fire on all enemies, now I can't seem to make it target just one anymore...

EDIT EDIT -

Oooo.  i love that they laugh if they win a battle without taking damage!
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on February 26, 2011, 10:25:47 pm
On font #6, the character width of the ! is too high. ;)

I need to do some more stress testing with bsnes later (my preliminary tests are in the wii port of snes9x).  worth noting that in said wii port of snes9x, there are minor graphical glitches in battle with the finger cursor and damage numbers.  it's hard to describe exactly what's going on, but I can try and get a screenshot later (I'm about to head to work tonight and won't have time to play much tomorrow).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on February 27, 2011, 12:37:41 am
I'm going to test this on hardware when I can, I'll be back with results. Thanks a million Lenophis, this has been my altime favorite project ever since it started.

let THE hack live on!
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: DarknessSavior on February 27, 2011, 04:47:05 am
Hmm, that's weird! And I was told just the other day that RHDN news submissions would be denied unless they had their own corresponding RHDN project page. Was this unwritten rule recently changed?
Weird, huh? I had the same realization just now.  ::)

Congrats on a new demo release and updates, PB team! :D

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on February 27, 2011, 06:58:54 am
Oh, right, obligatory question.

Is there any specific point of the game at which we should stop playing because further material is all unhacked, or should we play through to the end in testing this?

Also, I'll add errors I notice to this post rather than doubleposting.

1.  When the soldier runs into the room in Figaro to tell Edgar that Kefka is there to see him, he says "King Edgar" even if you changed Edgar's name to something else.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 27, 2011, 07:59:53 am
1.  When the soldier runs into the room in Figaro to tell Edgar that Kefka is there to see him, he says "King Edgar" even if you changed Edgar's name to something else.
Apparently we missed a bunch of name tags during that part of the game. :banghead:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Idkbutlike2 on February 27, 2011, 10:10:35 am
Using "Light of Silence" as the theme for the Cave to South Figaro? Heh, I see what you did there :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: andrewclunn on February 27, 2011, 11:52:31 am
It won't let me write Banon is a jackass on the paper  :'(
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Idkbutlike2 on February 27, 2011, 12:16:25 pm
Speaking of that area, it says "Opera House" when you enter Returner's free inn for some reason. :laugh:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 27, 2011, 12:23:09 pm
It won't let me write Banon is a jackass on the paper  :'(
Is the text wrapping? There's normally no response either way, but if the text is wrapping, that's a problem.

Is there any specific point of the game at which we should stop playing because further material is all unhacked, or should we play through to the end in testing this?
When the demo is over, you will know. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: vivify93 on February 27, 2011, 03:48:03 pm
Smith
"Yes sir! You're Emperor Ghestal's own court mage, aren't you?"

Whoops. I assume that the script is still being worked on, then.

...I don't care if I sound like an asshole, but know that it was not my intention to sound like one.

Also, the first line of Cyan Cayenne's introductory text is off center.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora\'s Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on February 27, 2011, 04:50:53 pm
It won't let me write Banon is a jackass on the paper  :'(
Is the text wrapping? There's normally no response either way, but if the text is wrapping, that's a problem.
Yeah, the text is wrapping there, at least on font 6.

February 27, 2011, 04:52:05 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also, the first line of Cyan Cayenne's introductory text is off center.

I noticed the same with Sabin's when using font 6.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: realworksuks on February 27, 2011, 06:52:18 pm
I am very glad to see this project in the headlines again due to it being my most anticipated project in romhacking. 
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on February 27, 2011, 10:44:50 pm
Just to clear up about my ROM patching problem, if you have a ROM and save it with FF6usME, then it changes the checksum even if nothing was done to the ROM.  This caused me to have a ROM that was pure in essence but not in code.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora\'s Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 27, 2011, 11:06:55 pm
Also, the first line of Cyan Cayenne's introductory text is off center.
I noticed the same with Sabin's when using font 6.
Provide screenshots, please.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora\'s Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on February 28, 2011, 03:21:41 am
Also, the first line of Cyan Cayenne's introductory text is off center.
I noticed the same with Sabin's when using font 6.
Provide screenshots, please.

Will do ASAP, I'll need to replay to that point again.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: DarknessSavior on February 28, 2011, 04:17:23 am
Is the Whelk in the beginning supposed to take forever to beat? I've sat there for at least ten minutes (using super speed, too) shooting Magimissiles at it, and healing all of my characters. It isn't hard, so much as tedious. T_T

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lilinda on February 28, 2011, 04:21:54 am
Hit the shell.

Why are people having this much fucking trouble on the whelk

I mean, the game point blank tells you to try new shit when you hit new game
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on February 28, 2011, 04:52:02 am
Different problem to report!  This isn't from my personal playthrough, but a friend of mine's.

He reports that when the game should go to the party selection after getting the first Espers in Zozo, he instead gets this screen (using snes9x):

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2088/ff6pberror.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/ff6pberror.jpg/)

In ZSNES, the game instead reboots.

Here's a link to the .srm (http://home.comcast.net/~reiska/ff3pb_beta2.srm) he's using; game was started on ZSNES 1.51.

(Edit: Moved the link to my own webspace rather than his)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lilinda on February 28, 2011, 06:17:05 am
I can confirm this happens on bsnes 0.048.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 28, 2011, 07:36:20 am
He reports that when the game should go to the party selection after getting the first Espers in Zozo, he instead gets this screen (using snes9x):

...

In ZSNES, the game instead reboots.
And that would be a stack mismatch.

This is strange, since the first round of beta testing did not experience this. I've had problems with the party-select screen before, and all because of optimizations I made to the code. What did I screw up this time...? :banghead:

(http://slickproductions.org/forum/Smileys/FF6/edit.gif)
Ok, I found the problem. With a bunch of the code changes, I missed one address changed which somehow never caused a problem until this demo's release. How Aerdan did not experience this crash is amazing. I'll post an updated patch later today after I check a few more things.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: DarknessSavior on February 28, 2011, 08:02:37 am
Are you supposed to not be able to go into your menu once you start moving Locke and the Moogles during the "Save Tina" sequence? I tried to heal my party members, but could not.

~DS
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 28, 2011, 08:12:28 am
DarknessSavior didn't see Novalia Spirit's explanation. You thought you could handle it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: curses on February 28, 2011, 10:59:57 am
DarknessSavior didn't see Novalia Spirit's explanation. You thought you could handle it.
I thought it was a pretty weird design choice. I miss the "but thou must" style choices because the player won't miss any content that way. Sigh.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: andrewclunn on February 28, 2011, 11:07:34 am
Sprint Shoes, also known as the "Are you tired of holding down the B button?" relic  ;D
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 28, 2011, 02:36:56 pm
Ok guys, patch has been updated. Keep the reports coming. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on February 28, 2011, 02:46:57 pm
I love how hard the Phantom Train is (I blew through the beginning part, so maybe it would be harder if I fought a little more).  I also love how you have to run when rescuing Celes (an idea I implemented also).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on February 28, 2011, 03:25:58 pm
DarknessSavior didn't see Novalia Spirit's explanation. You thought you could handle it.

indeed, although there is grace, before you move you can go into your menu still which is nice. I used it to steal Mog's equipment.

Also, does anyone know what is in the Rhinotaur's steal slots? I only saw it once after an hour of random battles by south figaro and accidentally killed him.

Sprint Shoes, also known as the "Are you tired of holding down the B button?" relic  ;D

heh, didn't even notice as I'm so used to holding down B, but I did like the stats they provided.

Is what Novalia Spirit says in the Dev Room supposed to mean something? or is it just random.

What was the scholar in Figaro Castle talking about ilmagic and ilmages.

Did the Merchant in South Figaro always deliver the wine all the way to the old man and walk all the way back? It's been so long since I played the original :(

Also where is the Brawler's Bandana drop :O heh, probably just trying to balance the game, the bandana is godly at that stage in the game. I do like the overall balance and fixed stats.


Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Imzogelmo on February 28, 2011, 04:46:34 pm
I hope everyone is enjoying the demo. While we have tried to make it a bit tougher overall, it shouldn't be crazy hard, and it's not beyond a little tweaking here and there.

The most common complaint I've seen so far is the lockout of the menu during multiparty battles. The reasoning for this is that physically separate parties shouldn't be able to share a common set of excellent equipment during what is essentially one large battle. Of course, if you retreat to the starting point, that's another matter entirely.  Also, it's a sort of unstated goal that we want to encourage even growth, so that you don't reach the end of the game with 4 great people and the rest being lacking. Of course, there is not one true path to victory, and if you choose not to train somebody that's your business.

Also, I encourage everyone to visit the classroom in Narche. While the game is still very much FF6, there's enough new stuff that it may warrant a visit to brush up. This will be even more important in the final release.

As for issues with the dialogue messages, I'm sure there are plenty of these problems to go around. We haven't looked at those in quite a while, and there may be several problems lurking in them. Not just spelling, punctuation, and grammar (although there are plenty of those), but also text width and spillage into new pages could be issues you find. While I encourage anyone that finds these to point them out, I'm just saying that we won't be too surprised as it's tough to anticipate every situation when you have 8 fonts of differing widths and 9 letter character names which could interact to cause extremely different layouts for messages.

It would be naive of me to think that this is the last critical bug out there, as it probably won't be, but we'll keep an eye on all the posts so we can fix issues quickly if such a problem comes up. Meanwhile, enjoy the rest of the demo!
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on February 28, 2011, 09:20:02 pm
First, I wanted to express my appreciation for this demo. Been watching the project for a couple years now, and this is by far one of the most promising and exciting projects I've seen lately.

The issue with Whelk taking forever... yeah, that had crossed my mind after fighting him for about 15 minutes. Granted, I didn't attack the shell for a few minutes, but after he used Roll about a dozen times, I realized that maybe he wouldn't come back out until I started bashing his shell. I tried every single attack and confirmed that Magimissile was indeed the strongest one, but even with constant bashing, the fight did just seem to go on and on. Attack, attack, heal, attack, attack, heal, etc. Occasionally he'd attack faster, occasionally he'd seem to skip a turn. I'm not complaining, but I did want to add my input on the fact that it *is* an easy but tedious and time-consuming battle.

Even on the updated patch, I can definitely confirm that once I use multi-targeting with an attack spell, they *only* multi-target after that. I'm using only the in-game save feature, no save states, and the issue persists even after saving, quitting, and reloading the game. Nothing seems to get my Fire spell to target just one enemy again, and it only seems to affect spells that target the enemy by default. I can't help but feel like maybe if I were able to target myself, that maybe switching targets from the enemy to me and back again might cause the multi-targeting to go away, like it does with spells like Cure.

Other than that, besides some spelling and grammar issues (only a few so far that'd be worth mentioning, but I'm sure you guys will find them in your final test runs), I haven't seen much worth mentioning. Time for me to get back to the game :)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on February 28, 2011, 09:43:44 pm
The lowest tier elemental spells (Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder) all auto target one party (http://slickproductions.org/img/junk/magic.png) by design. Although, I must confess, it's one change nobody has warmed up to. :'(
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on February 28, 2011, 10:22:35 pm
Well, I certainly don't mind so much that you can only target the enemy with it (although it removes a little bit of strategy from things overall). But only being able to target *all* enemies is definitely frustrating and makes it difficult to play on weaknesses if you're fighting enemies with different weaknesses (not to mention, before selecting all mobs, it was previously able to select only one target at a time).

Edit: Just walked into Figaro Castle, game froze on a black screen with the music from the overworld (which lingered from Narche) still playing.

By the way, it did that in the original game too. Is that music from Narche *supposed* to linger the first time you leave Narche until you get to Figaro Castle, instead of the standard overworld music playing?

Edit 2: Reloaded my save (which was right outside Narche) and went straight to Figaro Castle instead of grinding a bit, game still froze exactly the same as last time. So... short of restarting my game or figuring out why it's freezing, I'm stuck.

Edit 3: Here (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/18/297303//FFVI_Pandora_Saves.7z), have the SRM and ZST for it, right outside the castle, in case you wanna take a look at it. I tested it in BSNES and ZSNES, both act exactly the same.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: KingMike on February 28, 2011, 11:01:36 pm
By the way, it did that in the original game too. Is that music from Narche *supposed* to linger the first time you leave Narche until you get to Figaro Castle, instead of the standard overworld music playing?
Do you mean, does it do it on the original game on the original console? Yes, it does.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on February 28, 2011, 11:16:43 pm
No, that's not at all what I was getting at. By the logic of your interpretation of my question and your answer, here's a list of things (http://mnrogar.slickproductions.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=477#p4743) that also occur in the original game, on the original console.

But seriously, a clearer way to ask my question would be, should the music still playing like that be on the list of things to fix, or do you think it was intended that the Narche music lingers until you get to Figaro Castle?

I should probably note that I'm not actually cutting on you, KingMike, I'm just giving you crap. I didn't think anybody would interpret my question the way you did... lol.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gideon Zhi on February 28, 2011, 11:46:52 pm
My guess is that it's intentional. That'd be a pretty damn big oversight, something that'd certainly have been caught in even preliminary testing - while most of the things the PB team fixed are most certainly of the under-the-hood variety.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on February 28, 2011, 11:57:53 pm
I'd feel the same way, but look at some of the problems that have occurred. Like Evade not having any effect, to name one of the biggest ones. I could imagine how it might be intentional, but the song really doesn't carry over so well for the occasion. Although, it seems like it'd be hard to accidentally have that happen, especially since if you get into a battle and come out, the music persists. Meaning it *seems* it'd be set to play that music until Figaro. Unless the game is programmed to store the last song playing when you enter battle, and to play that song again upon leaving battle, unless something specifically sets a song as part of an event. I suppose there's no easy way to determine whether it was intentional, short of seeing the coding for the game.

Edit: Well... I thought maybe if I went back to Narche, and then went to Figaro, that maybe my freezing issue would go away. But it seems that trying to zone at all is the issue. Trying to zone into Figaro *or* Narche causes the game to "freeze" at the black screen with the music going. So... yeah, I'm screwed. Time to start over again and hope that I can get further than leaving Narche this time... lol.

Edit 2: Umm... so, I started a new game. Got all the way to where you're ready to leave Narche. So I went to stop in the beginners house first, and... can you guess what happened? Yup, the game froze. Black screen, music kept going. I was previously afraid that maybe it was my fault for continuing a save on the new patch that I started on the old patch, but starting this fresh new game has now proven that this problem has nothing to do with me. Which... kind-of sucks actually. Occurred on ZSNES v1.51 of course, same as before.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 01, 2011, 02:00:39 am
might want to try another emulator.

I have zero issues on a real Super Famicom.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 01, 2011, 02:07:55 am
Multiple versions of ZSNES, and all 3 modes in BSNES (Accurate, Compatibility, Performance) would tend to indicate something other than an emulator issue. Unlikely to be a patch issue either though, otherwise more people than me would be reporting this issue. I suppose I can try every other emulator I can find and see what happens. This obviously didn't happen to me initially though, so besides upgrading to the newer patch, I can't imagine what else has changed.

Edit: Well, more versions of emulators, and a few other emulators, and I know it's not the emulators.

Does anybody have a copy of the original "demo 2" that was released a few days ago. I didn't have any problems with that first one, so I'm going to assume that the "fixed" version is what's causing me issues, because that's the *only* thing that changed right before the game stopped working for me.

CONFIRMED: I remembered that I had the original patched ROM still on my phone, so I transferred it back, loaded up my save, and was able to zone into Figaro Castle just fine. So yeah, definitely something with the v2a patch. Or something extremely unlikely and near-impossible that somehow happened anyway.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on March 01, 2011, 05:23:54 am
I suppose, in the meantime, it'd be a good idea to keep both ROMs around and switch between them as necessary - play with the original patch except for party switching, or something, till Lenophis can fix this one?

Also, a few more oddity reports:

- Fairy Claw is sold in Maranda for 15 gil?
- Rune Ring is sold in Albrook for 15 gil?
- Opal Necklace has no item description?
- in Magitek Research Facility, a chest indicates that you found a "crystal shield" but the item in the inventory is actually a Proto Shield
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 01, 2011, 06:25:36 am
Gamesoul Master, did you patch the game on an inappropriate version and click OK on 'patch anyway'? That's about the only thing I can think of that would cause that for just you.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Reiska on March 01, 2011, 06:40:22 am
Gamesoul Master, did you patch the game on an inappropriate version and click OK on 'patch anyway'? That's about the only thing I can think of that would cause that for just you.

It's not just him, a friend of mine had the same issue after using the reuploaded patch Lenophis put up to fix the problem with the party screen.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 01, 2011, 07:40:23 am
Edit: Well... I thought maybe if I went back to Narche, and then went to Figaro, that maybe my freezing issue would go away. But it seems that trying to zone at all is the issue. Trying to zone into Figaro *or* Narche causes the game to "freeze" at the black screen with the music going. So... yeah, I'm screwed. Time to start over again and hope that I can get further than leaving Narche this time... lol.
Entering any area with an event will get an infinite loop (figaro castle, south figaro, etc). The tiny house just north of South Figaro does not freeze, and I suspect Mt. Koltz is fine too.

Quote
Edit 2: Umm... so, I started a new game. Got all the way to where you're ready to leave Narche. So I went to stop in the beginners house first, and... can you guess what happened? Yup, the game froze. Black screen, music kept going. I was previously afraid that maybe it was my fault for continuing a save on the new patch that I started on the old patch, but starting this fresh new game has now proven that this problem has nothing to do with me. Which... kind-of sucks actually. Occurred on ZSNES v1.51 of course, same as before.
Hang on to your SRAM, this is a code problem.

Actually, in a brief moment of "huh," this problem started after I fixed the Returner's Inn location name, and now I have to wonder if this is related...
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 01, 2011, 08:08:51 am
Yeah, I only switched back to the old ROM, kept the SRAM.

You're right, entering Mt Koltz was perfectly fine, didn't try Sabin's house though. Forgot to report that (as you predicted) entering South Figaro also caused the freeze. Narche... did that one freeze because the aspect of not being able to actually enter the town is loaded as an event (as that's the only "event" going on there, right)? Either way, I'm glad it's a problem that's been (essentially) identified in code, and not some random crazy thing on my end of things... lol.

And just to clarify (even though Leno has already identified the problem), I applied the patch to the same clean v1.00 ROM that I applied the first one to (as I always make sure to keep a clean version of each ROM).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 01, 2011, 08:23:04 am
Ok, problem identified. Fixing the Returner's Hideout location name was definitely the culprit. When I assembled that in, it made a code changed I forgot to account for, which the center tag code does better. Long story short, the center tag code was being overwritten, causing an infinite loop in the location name display. Any area that can display a name will hang the game. A patch will be released in an hour or so.

(http://slickproductions.org/forum/Smileys/FF6/edit.gif)
Patch has been updated.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Hrith on March 01, 2011, 09:58:43 am
The lowest tier elemental spells (Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder) all auto target one party (http://slickproductions.org/img/junk/magic.png) by design. Although, I must confess, it's one change nobody has warmed up to. :'(
I like it. It may be a good idea to have that as the default targetting, but still be able to target one opponent by pressing R or L (for all relevant spells, not just Fire, Blizzard and Thunder).

My first impression about the hack is that the characters miss far too much (50~60% of the time). There is nothing that robs the fun of a game more than characters missing. I don't think special attacks should miss so much, if at all. Out of 100 tries (each, obv), Hissatsugeki missed 64 times, Aura Smash missed 40 times, Locke using Attack with Main Gauche missed 56 times. I know that is not mathematically relevant data, but I thought I'd actually test it in-game to illustrate my argument, it's the point of the release, right? :)
I have noticed spells seem to miss quite a bit, too, but it's nothing like physical attacks, so I have not run any test.

I love the FFIX thievery system, and the great equipment you can steal early on thanks to that.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 01, 2011, 10:50:44 am
Hrith, were you testing in the Phantom Forest?  I think the undead have higher evade.  Aura bolt never misses, that's for sure.  And eagle eye increases your accuracy, but I don't know how much.

Leno, I had a slight bug, nothing unavoidable.  When trying to read the instructions for stopping the phantom train (in the engine room), my hero was stuck in the square where you read it, and also got stuck in the square above that (couldn't move).  I had to read the instructions, then rewind and follow them.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: mra484 on March 01, 2011, 01:22:54 pm
Some stuff I've come across so far:

The clock in zozo that you have to get past for the chainsaw is broken, on all fonts the last line of choices overflow.  I didn't remember what the correct time was so I didn't check if it was still possible to open the door or not.

When you pick up the magicite in zozo the characters in your party get a max mp boost, but it doesn't give any mp to people that were outside your party.  I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.

Also not getting any AP from normal fights even when someone who can learn magic has espers equipped.  Again not sure if this was intentional or not.

It might just be me, but the rng seems much less predictable than it was before, like its coming up with different values after loading a save state than what it came up with the first time.

Enjoying the game so far.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 01, 2011, 01:35:22 pm
The clock in zozo that you have to get past for the chainsaw is broken, on all fonts the last line of choices overflow.  I didn't remember what the correct time was so I didn't check if it was still possible to open the door or not.
Wrapping text is bad. The only consolation I can give you is that you can't get the Chainsaw right now anyway.

Quote
When you pick up the magicite in zozo the characters in your party get a max mp boost, but it doesn't give any mp to people that were outside your party.  I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
Intentional. Only those that first come into contact with the stones will get boosts.

Quote
Also not getting any AP from normal fights even when someone who can learn magic has espers equipped.  Again not sure if this was intentional or not.
Nothing gives any AP on the first continent.

Quote
It might just be me, but the rng seems much less predictable than it was before, like its coming up with different values after loading a save state than what it came up with the first time.
Yay, someone finally noticed. :angel: The old RNG was destructored and replaced with a far better one.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Imzogelmo on March 01, 2011, 03:05:41 pm
I'm impressed that a lot of the stuff that we figured would not be noticed (for a while, anyway) is getting noticed. And, annoying as it is to get stuck sometimes, we really do appreciate it when we get those reports, so we can fix them.

The reports of cheaper-than-should-be items is noted, we just forgot to put final prices in for some of the items. So, for now, just enjoy the cheap equips. It's not intended, so it won't be that way in the final.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Hrith on March 01, 2011, 06:24:44 pm
'BrainSugar', oh you...

Not being able to run from Intangir is really annoying when trying to get all rages for Gau.

Also, give me back Catoblepas, Bismarck and Zona Seeker D:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lilinda on March 01, 2011, 06:36:53 pm
I'd like to add my vote to the "Not being able to single-target with the first level spells is lame" candidate.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 01, 2011, 07:00:05 pm
I'd like to add (as I thought at first that maybe it was just really bad luck) that I too noticed a problem with accuracy. Sometimes (and this is everywhere, not just in one particular area or against one particular mob) I can swing at an enemy 5 or 6 times before I even manage to hit them. I figure it might be intentional though, as a way to make things slightly more difficult without simply making the enemies able to two-hit KO you or something. But maybe not? Missing quite that many times is very frustrating. I'd prefer a little more accuracy and let the enemies have a 10-25% attack boost or something, if I have to pick between the two.

I do like that it's basically required to do a little grinding. Sometimes cruising through a game (for the story) is nice, but having to grind here and there helps you to stop and appreciate things a lot more. Granted, we aren't talking 7th Saga grinding here (a game I loved as a young kid, but definitely appreciated more when I got an emulator and discovered the fast forward command... LOL), but it's just enough to make things good. Just wanted to mention that, since so far I think the rebalancing has been well done. We'll see if that continues as the game goes on.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: mra484 on March 01, 2011, 08:20:34 pm
Some more little stuff,

Draco's last line in the opera is missing, the one that should come before Ralse says "have at you"

The auction house is giving out the wrong items I think, I bought a mana anklet and it gave me an experience egg instead.  The other thing I bought I think was called a protect cloak and it gave me a kuku's charm instead, both those have no stats or description.

The armory in Thamasa is giving away free stuff too, but I guess there's no need to fix that right away.

Also out of curiosity, is there a hidden use for Pandora's charm?  The stats on it are mostly terrible, and the 5 magic can be gotten elsewhere.  Was there supposed to be another dungeon? I didn't come across it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 01, 2011, 08:50:16 pm
most of the complaints about missing too much etc. can be addressed by focusing on those stats that make you more agile than your opponents. It no longer pays to focus solely on strength.

I think the general consensus is. "My characters suck too much (at the beginning of the game)" this could be rebalanced to a degree, but there is something about having to learn some strategies vs just dominating everything at first. If you're forced to learn simple strategy early on it can be applied in more difficult areas later.

Some of the things aren't really a matter of strategy, but just your characters stats are lacking. I still think that there is a positive of having a character that is insufficient at first and you power them up and mold them into what you need. I really like how Tina isn't a God character anymore, and is weaker and suitable as a mage with good MP.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Hrith on March 01, 2011, 09:27:31 pm
I don't know, after you get Edgar, the game was not much harder than the original. After Locke gets Eagle Eye and a long-range weapon, he is as efficient as he was in FFVI, but without the Eagle Eye (Sniper Sight).
You can't exactly focus on stats, whatever they are, when you don't even have Espers; the bonus you get from equipment does not improve the hit rate much, and you can only sacrifice so much defence (Ribbon is unusable, btw).

I have just finished the demo, my strongest char was Lv17 and I never found the game difficult at any point -- I mean too difficult, the difficulty is rather well balanced without power leveling once.

When I get unlazy, I'll host pics and report the bugs, typos and mistakes I have seen ;s
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 01, 2011, 09:56:19 pm
Ok, problem identified. Fixing the Returner's Hideout location name was definitely the culprit. When I assembled that in, it made a code changed I forgot to account for, which the center tag code does better. Long story short, the center tag code was being overwritten, causing an infinite loop in the location name display. Any area that can display a name will hang the game. A patch will be released in an hour or so.

(http://slickproductions.org/forum/Smileys/FF6/edit.gif)
Patch has been updated.

where is it hosted? all I see is Demo 2b on slickproductions, shouldn't it be Demo 2c now?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 01, 2011, 10:23:19 pm
and you can only sacrifice so much defence (Ribbon is unusable, btw).
The data disagrees with you. Check it's properties. ^_^

where is it hosted? all I see is Demo 2b on slickproductions, shouldn't it be Demo 2c now?
No, 2b is the latest patch. 2a was the broken one.

The auction house is giving out the wrong items I think, I bought a mana anklet and it gave me an experience egg instead.  The other thing I bought I think was called a protect cloak and it gave me a kuku's charm instead, both those have no stats or description.
O_o

Quote
Also out of curiosity, is there a hidden use for Pandora's charm?
It's one of two accessories you can get from Banon. It serves no other purpose other than for Terra to equip it.

Quote
Was there supposed to be another dungeon? I didn't come across it.
Yeah, we hid it pretty well. Try talking to some people in the Dev Room.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 02, 2011, 01:06:11 am
I'd like to add my vote to the "Not being able to single-target with the first level spells is lame" candidate.

 :P

I think I've tried to explain this to you on IRC for the reasoning of it...

FF4 (as a reference) had battle scripts that allowed monsters to run in the case "if alone" or "if only enemy group left". There is some merit to writing battle scripts that behave in that manner.

Besides, it is too hard to kill monsters that are not elemental friendly?  :P

Although... there should be some sort of compensation for doing this... (thinking along the lines of Bahamut Lagoon and elemental magic to kill targets).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 02, 2011, 01:42:02 am
the problem is if you have two monsters who are weak to fire, but the other gets healed by fire spells. So now to attack the two, you are healing the one. After you get Fira this wouldn't be as much of a problem but it still is a problem.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Hrith on March 02, 2011, 07:42:40 am
The data disagrees with you. Check its properties. ^_^
Prevents all ailments? Teaches Esuna? I doubt I've missed something big about it, it's a helmet which prevents all ailments at the cost of 0 defence, 0 magic defence, etc.


Anyway, here come the snapshots with some of the errors and mistakes I have found:

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb01.png
'the faster your gauge will fill'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb02.png
'If your skin is ashen'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb03.png
'after all the pain, he chooses you as successor'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb04.png
'It's time I killed you!'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb05.png
'The force is strong with this ring.'
Although, if that is a clear reference to Star Wars, Force should start with a capital F.

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb06.png
Wrapping, I suppose (only tested with font #1).

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb07.png and http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb08.png
'sandals'
Hermes' and Hermes's are both correct, but it would be better to use one consistently (Hermes's from the chest, Hermes' from the item list).

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb09.png
The map does not account for this geographical alteration.

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb10.png
The name of the dark sword Dark is glitched in a weird way. All spaces after the 'k' from Dark will have whatever was there on the previous screen (when going up or down a screen in the item list, in this case, Poison Rod) or what was previously equipped (when changing your equipment to this sword).

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb11.png
'The sealed gate lies to the east of Vector.' You cannot have possessive genitives with anything but human beings.

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb12.png and http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb13.png
Many of Gau's Rages have 'No description available' (not that you're not aware of this) while others (Murderer in the example) have wrong descriptions, since the Rage learned from Murderer allows Gau to use the Berserk spell.

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb14.png
'I am relieved'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb15.png
'There's been enough enough loss of life.' is a very clumsy sentence. Not to mention that really does not go well with the speech expected from an emperor.
'There have been enough lives lost'. or simply 'Enough lives have been lost.' are much more correct to use here.

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb16.png
'or he intends to wipe them out quickly.'

http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb17.png
'So do I...' or 'As I do...'. 'As do I' is not English at all.


Thank you for this demo, I'm way too eager to play the final product, now ;s
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: BRPXQZME on March 02, 2011, 08:18:30 am
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb17.png
'So do I...' or 'As I do...'. 'As do I' is not English at all.
I can find plenty of examples in print going all the way back to Chaucer that would suggest otherwise. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 02, 2011, 08:20:24 am
Prevents all ailments? Teaches Esuna? I doubt I've missed something big about it, it's a helmet which prevents all ailments at the cost of 0 defence, 0 magic defence, etc.
Getting protection from all ailments should come with a price. 0 defense and 0 magic defense fit that perfectly. Otherwise it's too good.

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb05.png
'The force is strong with this ring.'
Although, if that is a clear reference to Star Wars, Force should start with a capital F.
The way it is currently, George Lucas can't sue us. :P Noted.

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb06.png
Wrapping, I suppose (only tested with font #1).
After a report the other day about an apostrophe during the Opera, I've come to the conclusion that the name tag needs a tweak so text wraps if there's still letters it needs to print (as opposed to a space).

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb07.png and http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb08.png
'sandals'
Hermes' and Hermes's are both correct, but it would be better to use one consistently (Hermes's from the chest, Hermes' from the item list).
Good catch.

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb09.png
The map does not account for this geographical alteration.
Currently, only Yousei's map editor allows for editing of the minimap. We're not using that editor, and I'm not sure how to edit that data.

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb10.png
The name of the dark sword Dark is glitched in a weird way. All spaces after the 'k' from Dark will have whatever was there on the previous screen (when going up or down a screen in the item list, in this case, Poison Rod) or what was previously equipped (when changing your equipment to this sword).
When a space isn't a space. Fixed.

Quote
http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb12.png and http://keffypoo.pagesperso-orange.fr/vganime/ffvipb13.png
Many of Gau's Rages have 'No description available' (not that you're not aware of this) while others (Murderer in the example) have wrong descriptions, since the Rage learned from Murderer allows Gau to use the Berserk spell.
Ooooh, nice catch.

Quote
Thank you for this demo, I'm way too eager to play the final product, now ;s
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Hrith on March 02, 2011, 09:33:46 am
(http://itsfanart.com/d/26364-2/ach.jpg)

I can find plenty of examples in print going all the way back to Chaucer that would suggest otherwise.
Conformity replies are only grammatically acceptable if they do not start another clause. Using 'as' means you are comparing (i.e. not conforming), therefore using two clauses, even if one is elliptical. Consequently, you cannot reverse the word order of the subject and the auxiliary verb when you use 'as'.

'Lisa loves pizzas.'
'As I do.'
->
'Lisa loves pizzas as I do.'

That would not be possible with 'so' or 'neither', because 'so' and 'neither' are not used to compare the subject of the second clause to the subject of the first clause, but they are used to conform to it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: BRPXQZME on March 02, 2011, 06:59:54 pm
Conformity replies are only grammatically acceptable if they do not start another clause. Using 'as' means you are comparing (i.e. not conforming), therefore using two clauses, even if one is elliptical. Consequently, you cannot reverse the word order of the subject and the auxiliary verb when you use 'as'.

'Lisa loves pizzas.'
'As I do.'
->
'Lisa loves pizzas as I do.'
The logic is valid as far as I can tell, but it is not at all sound, because the conclusion does not reflect English usage, modern or not (plenty of creaky old examples right here (http://books.google.com/books?id=dMceAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA169); same source notes that Fowler found it distasteful to use with personal pronouns, but bluh on him). Both inverted and non-inverted forms are to be found after “than” or “as” in modern parlance (a fact omitted from many less-than-comprehensive grammar books, including yours, apparently). The inverted form is considered more formal and sounds a bit stuffier, so it may be on its way out in the future, but a quick few Google News queries shows that at least journalists and bloggers are still using it on a regular basis.

Moreover, in certain applications, such as the one you singled out, the phrase “As do I” (synonymous with “So do I”) is much more common than “As I do” (synonymous with “Like I do”). I can write a wallotext on why the latter sounds awkward, but the reasons don’t involve much in the way of grammar—in fact, the reasons are highly illogical.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 02, 2011, 09:53:46 pm
Judging by the posts so far, it's safe to say nobody has found either Super Boss™ yet. Disappointing... :'(
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 02, 2011, 10:15:28 pm
And that would be just the motivation everybody needs to find it now... lol. Which reminds me, I should probably download that updated patch and play with that instead. I gotta get back to the game and grind a bit so I can safely get through that mountain and get Sabin. Yeah, I'm pathetically behind 95% of the people who have downloaded this patch, I know... lol. Damn work and being stuck on that first revised patch set me back... :'(

To be honest, only being able to target all mobs with those basic elemental spells has kinda grown on me. It's unusual, but at least it keeps you thinking... lol.

Deathlike2, your reference to Bahamut Lagoon has just made me love you a little bit more now... :D It's surprising how few people have actually play that amazing game. I think after finishing this demo patch, I will go back and play that game again, just because it's been a couple years now since I last played it, and you mentioning it has suddenly made me miss it.

Edit: Not complaining, but is it intended for many mobs to run away at least half the time? And what's the EXP loss for that (I know it's not full, because I've seen all mobs run away and still get decent EXP for it)?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 03, 2011, 12:37:53 pm
Mobs weaker than you are will tend to run away because, hey, you're stronger than they are. :p
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 03, 2011, 02:13:48 pm
That is the FF1 effect IIRC. I don't know how it is coded in the hack, but even a simple check of enemy level < party avg level can allow for such behavior (probably written as some sort of FC command).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 03, 2011, 06:47:36 pm
And what's the EXP loss for that
You can't get experience from them if all they do is run. :happy:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: jorian on March 04, 2011, 10:00:38 am
Played through the hack, it was quite fun  :)

Fought Ted Woolsely.  He was pretty damn hard.  Took me about 5 or so tries to beat him.  Also had a very strange encounter on the plains outside of Vector.  I wasn't sure if this one was a bug or not.  The fight was against a vanished magitek armor.  Fought it for awhile and it seemed to run out of mp.  It also summoned two airforce armors like you fight on the way to the floating continent.  They also ran out of mp and the fight seemed to go on forever.  They just sat there without mp failing spell castings and i couldn't seem to diminish all of their hit points.  I eventually just reloaded and never seen them again.  Kind of curious how that fight is actually supposed to pan out.

Edit:  I also didn't find the secret dungeon but I didn't look too hard either.  Also, I was wondering how learning magic is supposed to work.  With some characters I had no problems getting them to learn spells.  Others just didn't seem to earn any AP no matter how long they carried the espers.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lilinda on March 04, 2011, 10:14:49 am
Where is Ted?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: jorian on March 04, 2011, 11:51:54 am
In the caves on the way to releasing the espers from the sealed gate.  There are two switches next to each other.  The right one opens a door which leads to a room with a tent and a save point.  The left one causes Ted to attack you.  I believe in the normal game it caused you to fight two ninjas.  There's a nifty little cut scene when you beat him and he's worth 25 AP.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 04, 2011, 05:26:39 pm
Fought Ted Woolsely.  He was pretty damn hard.
He is a Super Boss™. ;D

Quote
Took me about 5 or so tries to beat him.
:o I was worried that he was unbeatable.

Quote
Also had a very strange encounter on the plains outside of Vector.  I wasn't sure if this one was a bug or not.
Ahhh, you found the Stealth Armor. That battle is incomplete, now that I look at it. The Stealth Armor was going to be a mass AP giving fight, like how Intangir is. However, his AI is very much incomplete, and I think his supporting cast don't have much AI either. :-\

Quote
Edit:  I also didn't find the secret dungeon but I didn't look too hard either.
It's mentioned in the Dev Room by *someone* :angel:

Quote
Also, I was wondering how learning magic is supposed to work.  With some characters I had no problems getting them to learn spells.  Others just didn't seem to earn any AP no matter how long they carried the espers.
It works the same as it did before. If a character has a magic command, they can learn spells.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 05, 2011, 01:03:20 am
Easy example. I went into the cave that leads to South Figaro. I came across three Blue Claws. I stood there and did absolutely nothing, and they all ran away on their first turn. Got 136 EXP and an Antidote. The only time I don't get EXP is if I run away from the battle myself. I'm there right now if you want me to record it and upload the video.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: jorian on March 05, 2011, 11:39:00 am
Ahhhh I see.  I thought that summon might just be the command that was there until you learned a spell.  So not everyone can use magic?  I think I like it better this way.  Makes characters like Relm more useful.  Is it predetermined who can use magic or is it affected by who's in the party when you get your espers?  I didn't pay attention when that happened, and I don't remember who was in my party.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 05, 2011, 12:37:38 pm
Is it predetermined who can use magic or is it affected by who's in the party when you get your espers?
Cyan, Shadow, Edgar, Sabin, Setzer, and Gau cannot learn magic.

Easy example. I went into the cave that leads to South Figaro. I came across three Blue Claws. I stood there and did absolutely nothing, and they all ran away on their first turn. Got 136 EXP and an Antidote.
Ugh. So that error is back too, huh? The experience was getting tainted with FV's a while back. We did fix it, but it, like many other errors found their way back in at some point. Noted.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: KingMike on March 05, 2011, 06:49:36 pm
a mass AP giving fight, like how Intangir is.
Now that you mention Intangir, was he supposed to have Death immunity in the original game (SNES version)?
After they fixed it on GBA, it sucked doing it once for the Beastiary/Veldt, let alone even thinking of AP grinding. Even keeping him perpetually Stopped, it took forever because of his huge HP.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 05, 2011, 08:48:20 pm
Now that you mention Intangir, was he supposed to have Death immunity in the original game (SNES version)?
Yep, and it was kept for the GBA version. The Vanish/spell bug is what made AP grinding with him so easy originally.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 06, 2011, 12:29:43 am
a mass AP giving fight, like how Intangir is.
Now that you mention Intangir, was he supposed to have Death immunity in the original game (SNES version)?
After they fixed it on GBA, it sucked doing it once for the Beastiary/Veldt, let alone even thinking of AP grinding. Even keeping him perpetually Stopped, it took forever because of his huge HP.

You could always use Rasp and Osmose... it's not hard to kill him... just tedious.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 06, 2011, 05:26:57 am
Maybe I'm missing something here, but... Terra has flown off, and now I'm supposed to go to Figaro Castle to ride it west under the mountains. Except the old man just keeps saying he needs lubricant that he doesn't have because of halted shipments from Nikeah. I have talked to every NPC in Narche and Figaro Castle in case something new was added to continue on, but such does not seem to be the case. And obviously, there's no direct way into South Figaro, so I've explored the two towns in the area that are accessible.

PLEASE don't tell me you didn't change it so I have to go the extremely long way around to get to Nikeah to get some kind of lubricant or something. ::Hangs head::

Alright, I'm gonna make a whole trip around to Nikeah (and then South Figaro of course), and I *swear* there had better be something I get so I can continue on the story, or I'll shoot somebody... lol.

Edit: If it wasn't for fast forward, that surely would've taken forever. But... I got to Nikeah, and my first thought was "Alright, who in this place could possibly help me?" ::Thinks for a moment, then has a revelation:: "Of course! Maybe Captain Kirk could help me..." XD
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 06, 2011, 07:02:08 am
And it's not so bad because Nikeah has cool things to buy
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 06, 2011, 07:09:27 am
Yeah, I did appreciate coming across the Tiara there. Might've been a Kaiser Claw there too, can't remember anymore. But if I hadn't had fast forward, I would've been pissed about having to make that trip... lol. Especially since, now that battles are a bit harder than the original game, a couple of the areas actually require paying attention to the battles. So you have to do serious backtracking *and* still battle it out manually. Took me nearly a half hour, and I used 4x fast forward nearly constantly for the trip.

It was a nice touch though, to have something different/extra as part of the story like that. It just might've been more kind to maybe have the player head directly to South Figaro instead and maybe be allowed to bribe the guard to retrieve and hand over the needed lubricant from the guy on the ferry or something. Or maybe he's secretly a Returners sympathizer or something, you know? Just something where you aren't doing over an hour of backtracking for one little thing (keeping in mind, users of actual hardware or the most recent bsnes versions don't even have fast forward, so that little bit really would take at least an hour considering all the battles and such, while not even gaining a full level worth of EXP for the whole trip).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 06, 2011, 09:33:35 am
For some reason I didn't have to pay attention to the fights until M-Tek Factory, so fast-forwarding through the Nikeah trip took me 10 minutes once I figured it out.  I completely agree it could have better story depth, but its humor lessens that slight fault.

Honestly anyone without fast forward can gtfo imho b/c there are so many things that are uncontrollably slow otherwise.  I don't think things should take too long, but if you can't fast forward it's not Team Pandora's fault.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Imzogelmo on March 06, 2011, 12:59:48 pm
It's not to say it won't get a little tweaking, but it adds a little light element to the game, so it's not a straight, linear copy of the original story-wise. Besides,
it's an important lesson that you can even get back to Nikeah, so, to make the deal sweeter, we have better equipment available in Nikeah at that point so that you have something good for your trouble. Plus, a few extra fights is a good thing at this point, because money may be tight in the near future.

Spoiler:
And yeah, the monsters are supposed to put up some resistance. While I have no issue with fast-forward, I do have a problem with the "hold A and breeze through fights" strategy.  ::)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: tcaudilllg on March 06, 2011, 09:36:11 pm
Hit the shell.

Why are people having this much fucking trouble on the whelk

I mean, the game point blank tells you to try new shit when you hit new game

People need direction for experimentation.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 06, 2011, 09:45:28 pm
Hit the shell.

Why are people having this much fucking trouble on the whelk

I mean, the game point blank tells you to try new shit when you hit new game

People need direction for experimentation.

If people needed directions for insanity, then we have clearly lost use for the brain.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 06, 2011, 09:54:49 pm
Hit the shell.

Why are people having this much fucking trouble on the whelk

I mean, the game point blank tells you to try new shit when you hit new game

People need direction for experimentation.

Too bad being an idiot isn't against the rules.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 06, 2011, 11:08:53 pm
Honestly anyone without fast forward can gtfo imho b/c there are so many things that are uncontrollably slow otherwise.  I don't think things should take too long, but if you can't fast forward it's not Team Pandora's fault.

lolwut?

I actually am ok with a game making you do a little bit of work. It gives you an actual objective but still adds some leveling oppurtunites without having to walk in circles.

To say that the game shouldn't be made for normal speed play is fucking crazy though. Fast forwarding is fine, but it's a cheat, it's not a legitimate form of play and gameplay elements should NOT be based around it, THAT would make no sense.

that said, I don't have an issue with the trip, it kind of highlights the problem of the road to south figaro being down and makes you learn the land a bit better. To say that too many things are uncontrollably slow otherwise is pretty hilarious. If you don't have the attention span to play this game as it was back in the 90s you've got some issues.

as far as the Whelk thing, people should figure it out eventually, but you have to admit that playing the original FFVI might screw with you a bit, as you have been hard coded to not attack the shell, and it was pretty logical that way. That said, the breifing dialog was different, if you paid attention to that then you know that something should be different.

I am a fan of no brainless fights too :D yaaay.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 07, 2011, 12:33:27 am
For some reason I didn't have to pay attention to the fights until M-Tek Factory, so fast-forwarding through the Nikeah trip took me 10 minutes once I figured it out.  I completely agree it could have better story depth, but it's humor lessens that slight fault.

Honestly anyone without fast forward can gtfo imho b/c there are so many things that are uncontrollably slow otherwise.  I don't think things should take too long, but if you can't fast forward it's not Team Pandora's fault.

No wonder your hack is fucking unplayably slow. Fast Forward is very much not a legitimate way to play. It is cheating, in fact, because the original console did not have fast forward. Punctuation to be read as swearing. :V
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 07, 2011, 01:43:50 am
Why does everything throw you into a fit of rage?  All I'm saying is that half of the FF6 battle time is spent reading bars of text upon victory.  Isn't that true?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 07, 2011, 01:56:38 am
I have never experienced this phenomenon, and I've played the game a lot. It is, in fact, my favourite Final Fantasy. So to see people like you fucking it up in the name of a 'challenge hack' pisses me off.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 07, 2011, 02:05:24 am
Stay classy Kiyoshi; it's everyone here's favorite.  We've already discussed how my hack goes beyond your amazing attention span.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 07, 2011, 02:13:08 am
I'm sorry, since when did...let me count...3-4 people count as "everyone here"? I know several people who're paying attention to this thread who disagree with you, even.

So no, it's not "everyone here's" favourite, not by a long shot.

ETA: Also, there are people other than myself in your hack's own thread who don't like it. Oops!
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: assassin on March 07, 2011, 03:35:43 am
Kiyoshi Aman: It is, in fact, my favourite Final Fantasy.

Gogo13: Stay classy Kiyoshi; it's everyone here's favorite.

Kiyoshi Aman: *has completely forgotten what "favorite" refers to in the course of two short posts.*
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 07, 2011, 03:46:43 am
Kiyoshi Aman: It is, in fact, my favourite Final Fantasy.

Gogo13: Stay classy Kiyoshi; it's everyone here's favorite.

Kiyoshi Aman: *has completely forgotten what "favorite" refers to in the course of two short posts.*

Yes, because I'm supposed to be totally fucking psychic and know he was referring to FF6 in general and not his shitty fucking hack.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: assassin on March 07, 2011, 04:21:36 am
no fucking psychic powers required; just basic reading skills and an ability and willingness to recognize context.  fucking hell!!!
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 07, 2011, 04:28:58 am
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!text? What is this 'khan-text'? Is it something you put in your ear?

Seriously, though. Even if he were talking about FF6, he's still wrong. :p
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: BRPXQZME on March 07, 2011, 04:35:51 am
Oh, relax, cupcake. It was a joke.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 07, 2011, 02:57:16 pm
it's everyone here's favorite.

your favorite game in the world that you can't bear to play at 1x speed. Everyone here is impressed.

That said, this squabbling isn't fair to the authors of Pandora's Box. could somebody fork this or something?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: KingMike on March 07, 2011, 11:46:56 pm
Yes, there's too many personal attacks in this thread. :police:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 08, 2011, 12:16:38 am
I started rolling my eyes after the second post of crap that those guys got into. Seriously, no need to make everybody suffer by having to read your pointless bickering. Switch to PM or get a room... :D

Anyway, I do agree that the side-trip adds to the hack in a way. Sort-of an illustration of how hard the Empire is making things by taking over towns and such. The frustrating part was all the battles that added up to like, maybe half a level worth of EXP. Usually, after fighting a few dozen battles, I expect to get at least a level out of it... lol. And running away takes forever (sometimes longer than killing all the mobs, even if they aren't one-shot mobs), so running away isn't even an option. S that, and one other type of occasion, are when I use fast forward. The other occasion is when I'm fighting a new mob that's giving me trouble stealing from, in which case I use fast forward for the sometimes 100+ rounds it takes to steal a couple items (with 50+ agility and the relic, mind you). Still worth getting some of those items though, so I don't mind that so much. Really am loving having 4 item slots on each mob :)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 08, 2011, 12:32:53 am
Are the stealable items anything you can't end up buying, and if so, how many?  I would just steal casually whenever Locke's round came up, so didn't get much items out of it.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 08, 2011, 02:07:01 am
a good rule in any Final Fantasy game is to steal everything you can from boss characters before defeating them, most other characters can be returned to later. the Brawlers at the base of the Mt. to get Matthew used to drop Bandanas in vanilla FFVI, but no longer. I suspect because it was so powerful at that stage in the game.

I'll try to compile a list if and when I get to playing through the demo again. I'm an RPG clepto :D
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 08, 2011, 02:29:41 am
@Gogo: Not much in the way of "unique" stuff, no. Although there's some stuff that you get a decent bit earlier than the first chance to buy it. Bosses are an exception of course, as always. But there are a good chunk of regular mobs that, if you steal past the easiest slot or two (which generally contain potions and such), you may be surprised at what you can get. Sometimes it could be as simple as an Elixir, or as good as getting pieces of a gear set that's still a couple towns away from being buyable.

@Panzer: I don't remember how, but Bandanas are still easy to acquire early in this game. I've had them for quite a long time, but I don't remember where I got them. Other stuff though, as I said to Gogo, it's much more worthwhile in this hack to steal from regular mobs, because you can get stuff early on that's actually useful. Would love to see a list, but I'm actually enjoying having no idea what I may end up stealing next. Sometimes I find something cool, and sometimes I get crap for all my effort. But either way, it's definitely one of many good aspects of this hack.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Garoth Moulinoski on March 08, 2011, 10:22:23 am
a good rule in any Final Fantasy game is to steal everything you can from boss characters before defeating them, most other characters can be returned to later. the Brawlers at the base of the Mt. to get Matthew used to drop Bandanas in vanilla FFVI, but no longer. I suspect because it was so powerful at that stage in the game.

I'll try to compile a list if and when I get to playing through the demo again. I'm an RPG clepto :D

Hmm, I rarely ever even used the steal command... I think I only ever drew from bosses in FF8 and that was it, but it was practically second-nature to have one guy drawing stuff from monsters in that game. I've beaten every Final Fantasy up to 9 without ever stealing from bosses- am I missing anything that would add on to my enjoyment of the games that would justify a replay (well, I'd replay 9 anyway because I really like it)?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 08, 2011, 11:40:37 am
6 Had some good steals from bosses, but only on maybe 25% of them
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Imzogelmo on March 08, 2011, 12:21:32 pm
The steals are something that we may possibly tweak a bit further, but as it stands, yeah, we wanted to give some steals from the random encounters that could (a) be a little better than what you can buy at that point, and/or (b) be worth enough Gil that you can sell it off if money is tight. That's because in initial playtesting, we found that money could be tight in places, and that weapon selection could be bumped up a bit without hurting balance too much. As for bosses, of course there is some stuff, but it's more likely to change as we don't want to give away the really good stuff too early.

Also of note is that we not only added steal slots (and made it possible to get more than 1 item from an enemy), but we changed the steal success formula too, so agility (and not just levels) helps now. And of course, when you get to that point, multi-stealing in a turn is not bugged anymore. :)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 08, 2011, 01:12:14 pm
I rarely ever even used the steal command... I think I only ever drew from bosses in FF8 and that was it, but it was practically second-nature to have one guy drawing stuff from monsters in that game. I've beaten every Final Fantasy up to 9 without ever stealing from bosses- am I missing anything that would add on to my enjoyment of the games that would justify a replay (well, I'd replay 9 anyway because I really like it)?

I'd say yes. It isn't a huge loss but it does add to a game, at least with bosses and some dungeons throughout the games. Overworlds don't matter as much.

Not stealing ever though is basically cutting a character class out of your game, like never using magic, or never fighting as a bare handed monk.

FF IX was even better for it because the main character was a theif and he had 4 steal slots per enemy. This is one of the new features of Pandoras Box, and one of the reasons I was spending extra time stealing on the overworld map to see what the team had added.

It can get tedious at times but it gets better as you learn what people have to steal, and as your theif's ability increases. Knowing a good steal and spending 20 minutes in a place can get you great equipment early on, or money a lot faster than usual. If you can't be arsed to slowly see who has what, you can always use a strategy guide or FAQ to see what drops are in the area ahead and if its worth it to you to grab them.

The games I've found stealing most rewarding in are FF V, FF VI, and FF IX.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Next Gen Cowboy on March 08, 2011, 05:11:55 pm
Not to get sidetracked, but in 9 it's a major deal, it grants you access to equipment way ahead of time, it allows you to save money for better equips later, and you get the added bonus of throwing obsolete items into synthesis' making stealing the most important aspect of Zidane (until he can deal massive damage late-game)

It's extremely useful in FF10 as well, some extremely rare abilities/healing items can be had early on if you teach Khimari to steal early enough*, it also has the added bonus of defeating most Machina in one hit.

* It's not imperative it be Khimari, but at least in normal version of FFX he has the easiest route to steal except for Rikku whom you get much later. Of course you can't put abilities on equipment until Rikku joins anyway, but you can still horde the items.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 08, 2011, 06:02:24 pm
Also there is the fact that in FF IX, equipment is how you get abilities so rare equipment = sweet abilities.

There is a reason Zidane is a their and the main character ;)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: TimeSpaceMage on March 10, 2011, 09:48:18 am
FF7 had a good share of steals, especially at the beginning of the game (Hardedge/Carbon Bangle in the Shinra building, Striking Staff/Ghost Hands in the Train Graveyard).

EDIT: Started playing this and it's really cool so far (just got past Figaro, bedtime). There are a hell of a lot of comma splices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_splice) in the text, though. I got a kick out of the jumping sound effects, and noticed two different welcomes when starting the game (was trying to remember the old "start the game without watching the intro" trick). Also good God did poison do a lot of damage to the Magitek Armors.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 11, 2011, 10:29:40 am
Yeah, when I first used Edgar in this hack, I tried Auto-Crossbow and after seeing how badly it failed overall compared to vanilla, I was thinking that maybe Edgar would be a bad choice to play. Then I used BioBlaster and had renewed respect for him, considering just about any long battle can be cut short by using that and watching the huge Poison damage eat away at just about everything... lol. I wouldn't be surprised if that were one of those things that will probably be toned down a little by final release though. Which I wouldn't mind, considering how powerful it is compared to just about everything else. And if not, I know who will definitely end up in any grinding parties I have to make... XD

Edit: I gotta say, I do love the Auction House now that it's been revamped. The stuff does get pretty expensive, but a few of the items are well-worth the price I'd say. But yes, definitely something going on with what it says you get versus what you actually get. And the guy still calls the tool "Flash" (I was glad to see I actually *got* the right tool at least... lol).

Edit 2: Upper left house in Thamasa is labeled as "Cave on the Veldt" when you enter. And I gotta tell you... going to the armor shop in Thamasa is just all too tempting, especially if you scroll through that list long enough to find some really interesting 0 gil stuff. It also showed off some stuff that you guys have "removed" from play, like Crystal Mail, Muscle Belt, etc. I guess now we know what happens when you enter a shop that has zero items listed for it... lol.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 11, 2011, 04:51:36 pm
yes I'm glad that Autocrossbow has changed. In vanilla FF6 for a good chunk of the game autocrossbow pretty much replaced attack for Edgar.

I'm glad that his abilities offer more diversity now :)

Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Imzogelmo on March 12, 2011, 11:15:16 am
The poison damage is something we've discussed toning down. In the hack as it is, it's pretty strong. Of course, that is true if used against you, too. One thing we may do is have monsters be intelligent enough to use an Antidote on themselves. But we also may tweak the damage formula for it a bit. We're not really sure what we'll end up doing on that.

Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 12, 2011, 06:03:14 pm
I'd go with the antidote battle script, because changing damage formulas changes all the other expectations related to that damage.  What's more, if poison shares the formula with regen, that complicates things further.  However, if poison is doing more damage than heroes should at level 50, I would change the formula to save the entire damage curve.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: syntax error on March 13, 2011, 06:52:09 pm
125 comments. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 13, 2011, 08:19:40 pm
Or if nothing else, is there maybe a way of making poison more difficult to stick? Thinking on it, it seems like there's no /random involved for deciding whether a status ailment sticks, short of it being all or nothing if the mob is immune to it. Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use. I like the fact that they can run out of MP, and it might seem a bit uneven if they can run out of MP but still manage to somehow use a hundred Antidotes.

The only upside to that is that it would waste one of their turns, which could potentially be useful, strategically. How would that work on mobs like Ted Woolsey, who has a predetermined list of attacks that he uses over and over again? Would it reset to the start of the set, or would they continue where they left off? If battle scripts are written anything like a program (like C++ for instance), would there be checks in-between each attack in the set for status ailments they can cure themselves of, or would it be a check done at the start of each attack in the sequence (effectively nullifying that attack in the set)?

Allowing use of Antidotes seems like it could be a little more trouble for certain fights than it might be worth, if you have a set idea of how the mob should be acting. Whereas tweaking the damage calculation formula for poison can be as simple as changing a single number in the equation (depending on how it's written of course). In my opinion, it'd seem like at least a 25-33% reduction in poison damage might be fair, as long as it's not linked to things like Regen status (which doesn't regenerate a whole lot of HP in the first place, and would be rendered nearly useless to the player if lowered at all).

Edit: Just finished the demo. Was kinda sad that it ended where it did, and was more sad that it just sort-of went blank after the first box of dialog saying it was over. It didn't even finish its own sentence (it seemed like it was going to give a web address or something for some kind of contact information, but then it just sort-of stopped at "at"). I kinda thought I'd be able to save and see what that ????? in the main menu was all about... lol.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 13, 2011, 10:44:29 pm
Antidote can be scripted to be used whenever poisoned or on a per turn basis or otherwise.

A problem is that your 25-33% reduction might be fair now, but poison is something that should be useful throughout the entire game. Also, like I mentioned before, I'm near positive that poison *originally* uses the same formula as regen, but with damage incremented over time, so changing regen must also be considered.

Another solution would be to look at all of the monster formations, and make sure half of the monster types of each formation are immune/absorb poison.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 14, 2011, 12:43:51 pm
Or if nothing else, is there maybe a way of making poison more difficult to stick?
This is something I've wanted to address since day 1. I wanted to go on a more FF9ish route and give ailments their own chance of hitting on top of normal spell damage. As it is right now, both are tied to each other, if spell misses, ailment misses, and vice versa. I can think of no practical way to implement a change without rewriting a bunch of stuff though. :'(

Quote
Edit: Just finished the demo. Was kinda sad that it ended where it did, and was more sad that it just sort-of went blank after the first box of dialog saying it was over. It didn't even finish its own sentence (it seemed like it was going to give a web address or something for some kind of contact information, but then it just sort-of stopped at "at").
Now that is strange. The string is in the rom, but a glance shows that the "\" character isn't in, which is probably where it got hung up. Explains why nobody has been posting the issues in the place we wanted them to. :-[

Quote
I kinda thought I'd be able to save and see what that ????? in the main menu was all about... lol.
We thought about opening it up for the demo, but decided against it in the 11th hour.

As for poison, we wanted to put an emphasis on "it's deadly, do something about it!" sort of how FFX did it, but not to that extreme.

Quote
Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use.
Monsters don't have an inventory. I'm also pretty sure there isn't enough working ram to give howevermanyitemsx6 monsters an inventory (or maybe do something simpler, and give each formation an inventory).
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gogo13 on March 14, 2011, 06:58:29 pm
But it would be easier to have the monsters cast the spell antidote on themselves, instead of the item problem.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 14, 2011, 07:53:42 pm
/me summons Magic Pot!

/me summons Nohrabbit!

/me casts Meltdown!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Is it really worth giving monsters an actual spell.. when there are already options available? Maybe Umaro's "Green Cherry" should be revised...
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 14, 2011, 08:05:05 pm
But it would be easier to have the monsters cast the spell antidote on themselves, instead of the item problem.
That spell no longer exists.

Is it really worth giving monsters an actual spell.. when there are already options available? Maybe Umaro's "Green Cherry" should be revised...
The Green Cherry did nothing special on Umaro. Really, it could have been any item, but the AI just sets the hidden status all the same anyway.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 14, 2011, 10:22:49 pm
Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use.
Monsters don't have an inventory. I'm also pretty sure there isn't enough working ram to give howevermanyitemsx6 monsters an inventory (or maybe do something simpler, and give each formation an inventory).
I wasn't actually expecting them to have an inventory (I figured they didn't anyway), but couldn't you add in a few lines for a counter/check system? For instance (as a really rough example)...

Code: [Select]
if ( (item < 10) && (poison > 0) )
{
    Monster1.UseAntidote ();
    item++;
}
Obviously a few initialization lines amongst other things would have to be added, but would that be outside the scope of the game's capability? Or... if you want there to be a wider scope than just poison but can't spare the space for coding each one, just have them use a Remedy if there's *any* status ailment that it can heal, which covers at least half of them, right? Sorry if these are stupid questions, but as I said before, I'm not sure how the game's code is written, so I'm using the programming experience I *do* have to think this through :)

And anyway, I don't mind how poison damage is to players. It's honestly not that bad. Most of the time, I let my characters stay poisoned until the battle is over and I just cure them then, because there's no real need to cure them right away in battle. But the monsters... poison hits them like a 10 ton truck. The whole "it's deadly, do something about it!" mentality never even remotely crossed my mind, whereas some monsters died from the poison before they could even have a chance to think that... lol.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on March 15, 2011, 05:49:01 am
It's not nearly as simple as that, I don't think. Nice try, though; I wish it were that easy, too. :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: KingMike on March 15, 2011, 01:10:49 pm
I think in most FF games, wasn't poison damage something like 5% max HP per turn (I'm sure it was about that in FF1 Origins, seems about right for others), but FFX bumped it up to 25%.
And yet I recall in FFX it was about the only way to kill human enemies (who would automatically use Hi-Potion after being hit, but weren't smart enough to heal poison damage). :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lilinda on March 15, 2011, 01:55:26 pm
I never used Poison damage in FFX and killed everything that came my way.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 15, 2011, 05:10:23 pm
I think you need some sort of progressive system for Poison... but that undoubtedly require some work.

FF4+FF5 had the right idea on poison...

FF4's damage dealt was maxHP/8, where the frequency of poison damage was dependent on the amount of HP the target had. Large HP targets took far longer to die by poison.

FF5's damage dealt was maxHP/16, where the frequency of poison damage is the same as FF4.

FF6's poison damage is calculated differently... where the length of time increases poison damage. However, the frequency of poison damage is constant.

I'm not sure how much this formula has changed in the hack, but if something like reducing the poison damage scaling and/or increasing the delay before the poison damage is applied (either by maxHP or by some formula where the max damage takes 2-3x longer than the first poison damage), that should probably balance this out.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Rinpoo on March 16, 2011, 07:48:30 pm
Playing through slowly and have a few errors to report.

Some of the paintings in the mansion near the auction house display weirdly they have the characters name then the description ex. LockeThis looks like an old suit of armor

The clock to get the chainsaw is broken nothing I do will open it and the second menu there are invisible options that can crash the game.

The armor shop where you get Strago and Relm has invisible options and you can buy things such as Dry Ethers and Crystal Swords for outlandish prices, once you buy them the number you buy Is not equivalent to what you get Ex 99 Dry Ethers got me 18 (Yes I flew here ahead of time to check the equipment as the demo ends before going to town to get Strago and Relm)

Almost every Auction item in the WOB so far is broken; the Shadow Blade, and Golem Magicite work, the other items you get do not have descriptions, are unusable, or do absolutely nothing at all.

In the world of balance on your way to the sealed door if you confuse the Lich enemy and he uses the attack that inflicts Zombie status on himself, he will die, yet eventhough the Lich is dead and not there he will continue you attack your party as if he is.

These are some of the major things that cost me both money and I was killed by a dead invisible Lich.

I don't know if this counts as a glitch or not, but It has to be addressed.  Ted Woosley is far to easy to be any kind of super boss.  He attacks Sabin and Terra almost exclusively with powerful attacks, never attacked Locke once with any one hit kill attack, and 4 reflect rings pretty much nullifies his difficulty, hell even 2 reflect rings.  I spammed Dehabilitator, and sat in the back row while he practically killed himself, and just used Locke to revive, as Ted never attacked Locke with anything save for a pitiful normal attack.  I am unsure if he was glitched as to why he only attacked Terra and Sabin, or if his AI is just weak.

Having fun with the wonderful hack, I will let you know if I spot anything else in the WOB.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 16, 2011, 11:23:47 pm
and 4 reflect rings
Well, if you're going to cheat, I can't really take what you say seriously.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Rinpoo on March 17, 2011, 12:40:42 am
and 4 reflect rings
Well, if you're going to cheat, I can't really take what you say seriously.

Then, don't I merely was saying all forms of reflect make him a joke as he only attacks two characters other than that 1 tri element attack on the party which is not only predictable, but easily avoided.  I do not see how its cheating when it is an item you yourself left in the game both at an outlandish price in one town and the auction house gives them out fairly often as well.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 17, 2011, 10:23:13 am
Then, don't I merely was saying all forms of reflect make him a joke as he only attacks two characters other than that 1 tri element attack on the party which is not only predictable, but easily avoided.  I do not see how its cheating when it is an item you yourself left in the game both at an outlandish price in one town and the
The armor shop in Thamasa is something I don't know how we let get through. But a lot of things got through, so... :angel: Either we were trying to decide on what it should give or I just flat out forgot to set the items, most likely the latter.

Quote
auction house gives them out fairly often as well.
I await your proof.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: assassin on March 17, 2011, 10:25:22 am
In the world of balance on your way to the sealed door if you confuse the Lich enemy and he uses the attack that inflicts Zombie status on himself, he will die, yet eventhough the Lich is dead and not there he will continue you attack your party as if he is.

this larger Zombie issue is actually in the original game.  now, Lich doesn't use a Zombifying attack via Muddle/etc, and is immune to Zombie, but the bug can be experienced on other enemies.  for instance, Muddle FossilFang and hope it attacks Bug.  Charm or Control Exoray in Daryl's Tomb.  or Muddle Ogor in Triangle Island cave.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 17, 2011, 02:16:32 pm
What are the steal probabilities for the 4 slots? Also, are there some monsters that simply don't have any drops? Also, will some slots have duplicate items? I don't want to invest too much time stealing if the rate is unfavorable and/or the drop is not worthwhile.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 17, 2011, 03:10:29 pm
What are the steal probabilities for the 4 slots?
Common: 50%
Uncommon: 25%
Rare: 18%
Rarest: 7%

Quote
Also, are there some monsters that simply don't have any drops?
Make sure you aren't confusing item drops vs items to steal. Some monsters have no items to drop, and some monsters don't fill all 4 steal slots.

Quote
Also, will some slots have duplicate items?
Perhaps, experiment and find out. :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Panzer88 on March 17, 2011, 08:42:46 pm
When you steal everything from someone the game tells you
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 19, 2011, 02:09:23 am
auction house gives them out fairly often as well.
I await your proof.
Sorry to be "that guy", but... here's the proof you asked for (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/18/297303//FFVI Pandora Box (Reflect Ring).7z).

When I saw this, I specifically remembered having 2 Reflect Rings when I got to the battle with Ted Woolsey, and I obviously didn't cheat at all. So I found an old save, blasted my way through to where you can buy stuff on the AH, and have provided a screenshot and a save state (for ZSNES v1.51) providing the proof you seek.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 19, 2011, 12:13:58 pm
Sorry to be "that guy", but... here's the proof you asked for (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/18/297303//FFVI Pandora Box (Reflect Ring).7z).
This proves nothing. I wanted proof of 4 reflect rings, and this is just one. I decided to use this state and do about 20 additional rounds of items in the auction house, and the reflect ring never came up again.

Quote
When I saw this, I specifically remembered having 2 Reflect Rings when I got to the battle with Ted Woolsey, and I obviously didn't cheat at all. So I found an old save, blasted my way through to where you can buy stuff on the AH, and have provided a screenshot and a save state (for ZSNES v1.51) providing the proof you seek.
I see you don't refrain from cheating either. :P
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 19, 2011, 06:18:49 pm
Well, I had two Reflect Rings when I got to that fight, so I assumed both came from the AH. If one came from a chest somewhere, then so be it. I will check it myself too, just in case. When I actually played through, I only hit the AH a couple rounds and got that Reflect Ring. This time it took more like a dozen rounds to get just one... lol.

And yes, I cheated to get back to that point again. I wanted to find and (potentially) verify the situation, since I knew I had gotten at least one Reflect Ring from the AH. But I didn't cheat on my actual playthrough. Cheating is sometimes fun for a game you've beaten at least once or twice, but it'd sort-of ruin the fun of playing this hack I've been waiting years for if I had done what I did on that save state to get to the AH as quick as I did.

Edit: Well, now I have no idea where my second one came from, but I too ran through at least a dozen and a half runs through the AH, and as you noted, another one never came up. I apologize for jumping to conclusions, I didn't realize you had the Reflect Ring flagged as a one-time drop at the AH, so I figured when that one popped up, there was the chance of more and that I had acquired both there.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: SirRob on March 19, 2011, 07:39:25 pm
Loving the demo so far, here are a few things I've found.  :)


Minor Bugs


Text Overflows

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/sirrob/Romhacking/FF3PandorasBoxBetaNEW_00004.png?t=1300576789 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/sirrob/Romhacking/FF3PandorasBoxBetaNEW_00004.png?t=1300576789)

Spelling Errors

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/sirrob/Romhacking/FF3PandorasBoxBetaSpellingErrorRevives.png?t=1300576789 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/sirrob/Romhacking/FF3PandorasBoxBetaSpellingErrorRevives.png?t=1300576789)


Major Bugs





Suggestions


Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 21, 2011, 12:25:35 pm
  • During the fight with Vargas, I input Sabin's Raging Fist Blitz (Left, Left, Left, Menu aka  <- <- <- X), the attack missed and I was unable to pull off the Blitz again. It kept saying Incorrect Blitz technique, leaving the battle to be in a seemingly infinite loop.
  • Blitzes don't seem to work correctly, I've been unable to pull off a single blitz aside from the one at Vargas, and even then only that one time.

You're doing it wrong... but I think more importantly you are not used to the Blitz execution delay (whether it be fail or success). I think if you had changed the default configuration for the controls (menu, accept, cancel, etc.), then that changes as well.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 21, 2011, 05:53:33 pm
Yeah, changing the configuration does changes the buttons that have to be used. Although he hasn't said yet whether he changed them or not, and he *did* say he was using the Menu button, which by default is X as he stated. And the execution delay wouldn't even factor into this situation if he's getting the "Incorrect Blitz technique" message. As long as you highlight Blitz, hit (Accept button), then hit <- <- <- (Menu button) (Accept button) and you don't hit them slower than about one button per second (that seems to be about the maximum time you can have between button presses for it to work), there shouldn't be any problem. The blitzes have all been working great for me so far, as long as I followed those guidelines, which really haven't changed since the original.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora\\\'s Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: SirRob on March 22, 2011, 08:57:46 pm
Using all default controls, I've done it fast enough that it should read  it fine and not slow enough that it would fail to read. I'll give it another shot and see how it goes. Perhaps change the controls and then just redefault them again.

March 23, 2011, 02:06:40 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
  • During the fight with Vargas, I input Sabin's Raging Fist Blitz (Left, Left, Left, Menu aka  <- <- <- X), the attack missed and I was unable to pull off the Blitz again. It kept saying Incorrect Blitz technique, leaving the battle to be in a seemingly infinite loop.
  • Blitzes don't seem to work correctly, I've been unable to pull off a single blitz aside from the one at Vargas, and even then only that one time.

You're doing it wrong... but I think more importantly you are not used to the Blitz execution delay (whether it be fail or success). I think if you had changed the default configuration for the controls (menu, accept, cancel, etc.), then that changes as well.

Now it seems to be working more. The delay seems to be different than vanilla FF6 so perhaps thats why I was having a problem.

March 27, 2011, 12:42:05 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also I can't help notice that this Spirit that sells things looks like he is covered in shit. Likely due to a palette swap somewhere.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/sirrob/FF3PandorasBoxBetaNEW_00009.png?t=1301243960)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Gamesoul Master on March 27, 2011, 07:09:33 pm
If I recall correctly, the spirits there originally were all one color (in vanilla), but they indeed seem to have changed that, so now there's a few different colored ones. I don't know if that particular "color" was intended, but I figure the others were, so I overlooked that one.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: SirRob on March 27, 2011, 08:29:38 pm
If I recall correctly, the spirits there originally were all one color (in vanilla), but they indeed seem to have changed that, so now there's a few different colored ones. I don't know if that particular "color" was intended, but I figure the others were, so I overlooked that one.

It looks unintentional to me, the colors don't blend well at all like the others.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: Lenophis on March 27, 2011, 11:23:51 pm
They were all intentional. :angel:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
Post by: SirRob on March 28, 2011, 11:13:29 am
They were all intentional. :angel:

Haha, then well done. I'll be updating my findings on my one post so I don't spam the topic. So periodically check my signature link to my original post. I'd like to actually try to be useful in the Romhacking community and if all I can do is spellcheck and bugtest, by all means I will dammit.  :thumbsup:

Also BANON SMASH!! was an epic win.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/21oao9v.png)