Creating a level editor with VB

[Maccam16]

I have a few questions about making my own NES level editor for Crystalis with VB, if there are any tutorials or source code floating around, I would appreciate some links.

I assume I would have to dump all the tiles, and reconstruct each level a tile at a time. I tried the Astyanax editor since it seems to be made in VB, and they had the level laid out with another box of possible tiles to drag and drop into the level. This is exactly how I want to set up mine, but have no idea how to write the changes made back to the rom. Are all the possible tile positions logged in their own addresses?

Since I can't run DOS programs, I can't use Nesticle to find the hex addresses easily. Is there any Windows compatible emulator that will bring up the tile list and also include their addresses? The debugger in FCE is a bit over my head, I don't know how I could track these addys down using just that.

Going back to the Astyanax editor, I found that when I place some floor tiles down, I can walk on them in game. Are tiles properties (i.e. background, ground, pit) hardcoded to the tile itself, or would I have to code those properties myself?

Sorry, I'm new to this but I'm pretty good with VB, hex editing etc... I think it would be a fun project and once I learn how to do one nes game editor I could probably make editors for others. Any help would be greatly appreciated, although I figure source code for another nes level editor would be best.

I have a lot of questions but I figure I should take it one step at a time and start with an all purpose level editor to make hacking that much easier.

[Daniel]

You're using... Nesticle?

First things first... making a level editor is an incredibly monumental task; certainly not something for a beginner. I would recommend that you first read all the documents you can on this site, learn some ASM language for the NES, and for the love of Pete, something better than VB? That should start you off on the right path at least. And don't use Nesticle.

[Kiyoshi Aman]

NESticle was the best of its class in its day. These days, there are far better [and far more accurate] emulators you could be using, like NEStopia.

[Daniel]

Yeah, but that's like saying "smacking a lion with a rock to kill it was the best method, in its day". Nesticle was outdated years ago...

[Maccam16]

I don't use Nesticle, I dislike it, I can't even run it. Why should I learn anything more advanced than VB, it can produce very simple point-and-click apps which is exactly what I'm looking for, and I already know how to program for it?

I just want to make a quick editor for my own personal use, I'm not planning on making some fully functional Crystalis Editing Suite, I want something to make hacking the physical appearance of the game map easier. Wouldn't it take much longer to do in hex?

Are you saying I would have to learn assembly in order to make a level editor that can read/write a rom? That would suck beacuse I can't find any good beginners ASM guides, just ISAs. If that's the case, I'll see how far I can get with hex.

EDIT: The only point I was trying to get across with Nesticle was that it had that feature that told you the hex address for anything on the palette. It's been awhile since I used Nesticle, I thought that feature was better than it actually is.

[Lenophis]

FCEUXD, FCEUXD SP, and/or FCEUXD SP CE (there's too many abbreviations of this...)

They'll do wonders for your hacking needs.

[UglyJoe]

FCEUXD, FCEUXD SP, and/or FCEUXD SP CE (there's too many abbreviations of this...)

They'll do wonders for your hacking needs.

CE is forked from SP 1.06, so you're better off with SP v1.07.  I should really start working on CE again...

[interdpth]

Ok, there's nothing wrong with creating a level editor, nor is there anything wrong with VB

Some people just don't like it because it's windows specific.

You don't need to learn any Assembly although it'd be very helpful.

Your best friends in VB when it comes to creating editors are


Open
get
seek
and put

Basically

Open "c:\boom.bin" for binary as #4
 Get #4, offset,byte

text1.text = hex(byte)

close #4

then to save

Open "C:\boom.bin" for binary as #4
 Put #4, offset, val("&H" & text1.text)
close #4

Try creating some basic editors before going on to making a level editor

[Daniel]

Actually, people don't like VB for a number of reasons. It teaches bad programming habits, "spaghetti code", and doesn't form a solid basis for programming in other languages, plus (most of the time) the programs it creates are bloated and unoptimized, along with forcing the user to provide a myraid of extra dlls with anything provided.

In other words, since it really does seem like you want to use this experience as a long-term basis for programming, you would be much better off learning a real language, like C++. Assembly IS recommended, because its what the vast majority of NES games were written in it. If you want to program level editors, just a simple basic knowledge of open and seek procedures isn't enough.

[Disch]

Is there any Windows compatible emulator that will bring up the tile list and also include their addresses?

This doesn't sound like a job for an emulator -- it sounds more like a job for a tile editor.  Crystalis uses CHR-ROM, so graphics won't be compressed or anything.  They will be plainly visible in any tile editor such as YY-CHR or TLP.

Also -- FCEUXD's PPU viewer has pretty much all the features of NESticle's except for runtime CHR-ROM editing.

[Nightcrawler]

Get out of the stone age and quit ranting over VB. Since VB .NET came out several years ago, it's NOT Windows only, it doesn't require anything more('myraid of dlls') than .NET runtime and it's not any more bloated and unoptimized than C# or any .NET language. There's no valid reason VB can't make a good level editor at all. The guy choose to use VB. Case closed. Any retorts can be sent to me personally. 

I'M LOOKING AT YOU DANIEL. 

If you can't talk about creating a level editor, don't talk at all.

[Maccam16]

Yeah, it did seem like he was playing "target the noob." 

I don't really want to start the foundation of a programming career or anything, it's just a hobby really. I'm trying to figure out things on my own but I can only program in VB and QB, and I can not for the life of me get any dos based programs to run on XP. I figured VB would be choice because it wouldn't take me that long to make and it would be easy to use. I only want to make a dev tool though, nothing too dynamic.

On a side note, I'm really trying to use the FCEUXD debugger to find addresses but I'm not sure how. If anyone used the N64 Gameshark debug, that's what I'm most familiar with. It let you scan for value changes by switching in and out of the game until you eventually narrowed it down to the address you were looking for. Does this have a similiar functionality, and are there any tutorials for it?

Thanks for the help.

[Daniel]

Hey, I'm not "targeting" anyone at all! You know as well as ANYONE, NightCrawler, that I'm not that elitist or mean.

Look, I grew up on VB.

It was my first language before I moved on to other things way back when. NightCrawler, please don't associate me with statements I never made. I've never said VB was "Windows only" at all.

However, the other, ACTUAL things I've said- are ALL TRUE- the bad techniques it teaches, the spaghetti code, the need to utilize extraneous DLLs. And the .NET runtime needed is bloat enough. Just the redistro is 23MB in size! I don't see any reason why a simple level editor needs to tag around that much junk, when something could be written much simpler in something like C++.

Look NightCrawler, again, I'm NOT TARGETING OR TALKING DOWN TO ANYONE. I've just had the misfortune of having to deal with rewrites and debugging of code from people who learned VB as a singular coding language. Good god, Mac is trying to take some steps into programming, and he deserves, even if it IS just a hobby, to be taught with a good, stable, quality language, learning good, quality programming habits. It means a much easier time down the road for both himself AND anyone who would work with him on a program, no matter what other languages he wants to learn. Otherwise, a great project he starts might end up just like Thomas Blind's GBColorizer, and I don't want to see that heartbreaking scenario happen again...

[Nightcrawler]

You have a bad habit of not letting things go when asked and ranting about things that don't pertain to the topic.

The guy wants help making a level editor. He choose VB. He didn't ask for your opinion on VB. Further discussion on VB will be deleted.

[sloat]

The best advice I can give is to make smaller programs first, as interdpth suggested. It definitely helps things get organized and will let you develop a core set of functions that you'll need. A design and plan are your best friends.

Don't worry too much about extracting the graphics from the game. Using image files is good enough, especially if you're looking to have a usable version somewhat quickly.

Lastly, I would say that even though you plan on only using this yourself now, be prepared to release it. Don't overlook interface features, like open/save dialogs, menus, toolbars, etc. A little work now will save you a lot later.