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Author Topic: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator  (Read 1503 times)

Malias

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Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« on: April 30, 2013, 04:30:01 pm »
http://www.exodusemulator.com/joomla30/

What do you guys think?  While I can't run it full speed, I'm really excited about its debugging features.  I have yet to find a quality genesis debugger, but I think this one does it right.

I also like the idea of a virtual machine for gaming systems, though I don't know whether it will catch on.  Still, this is an impressive release.
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KaioShin

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 03:58:36 am »
Interesting, it seems to be a bit more than just a Genesis emulator though. In theory it can be extended to almost any system. Though I doubt you'll get realtime Dreamcast emulation out of it anytime soon.

DSwizzy145

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 09:24:52 am »
Won't this be useful to any translation projects on the Sega Genesis to be worked on too?

Nightcrawler

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 09:34:02 am »
Yes, it's an emulation platform. It just so happens to only be able to emulate the Genesis at present. It sounds great on paper, but I have a hard time seeing this practically and gracefully apply to many of the fundamentally contrasting platforms out there. Yeah, they all have a CPU and a system bus, but there's a lot more to it than that. An Atari 2600, an SNES, and a Playstation 2 for example are going to have very different needs. The differences in the CPU, video, and audio hardware and their synchronization needs is quite significant. I imagine it's going to be more of a works (or works best) only on platforms that the author knows a lot about. There is no source code yet to look at. There are XML files for Genesis that give a small idea of what it's all about, but that only goes so far.

Another thing that comes to mind aside from all the internal workings is the debugging interface. Look at those screenshots. Now let's pretend you have that Atari, SNES, and Playstation 2. That same interface just isn't going to work well for all three. How are other platforms going to be supported? A single dynamically generated debugging interface just can't to be ideal for all platforms.

With that said, it looks to be a fine Genesis emulator with solid core concepts that has some appeal to ROM hackers. It's always nice to see something like that regardless. :)
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KingMike

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 10:19:00 am »
Interesting, it seems to be a bit more than just a Genesis emulator though. In theory it can be extended to almost any system. Though I doubt you'll get realtime Dreamcast emulation out of it anytime soon.
No. So I read, this emulator has much higher requirements than bsnes, which people loved to complain about (though my PC with hardware mostly from 2007 could handle that just fine). :P
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LostTemplar

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 10:43:12 am »
[...] (though my PC with hardware mostly from 2007 could handle that just fine). :P

I have no idea what people are complaining about either. I always had full speed since the first time I became aware of bsnes... and by no means do/did I have cutting-edge PCs*.

While I don't have any profound knowledge of the inner workings of Exodus, so no guarantee that this is 100% correct, but I read on byuu's forums a few weeks ago that Exodus is using quite an expensive method of synchronizing its components; similar to bsnes, it's using multiple threads, but instead of waiting for each other it rolls components back (probably a very expensive action) if they get out of sync. That would explain why it needs an even faster CPU than bsnes.

*) Of course there's no refuting that bsnes is a lot slower than the other big SNES emulators, though

Nightcrawler

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 11:49:27 am »
What that means is it has the ability to perform great for platforms that do not require much synchronization and takes a very large performance hit for those that really require it. Basically, it will speed ahead unless it detects a sync problem. When a sync problem is detected, it must rewind and repeat in a synchronous manner. This is extremely expensive if it were to happen often. If it doesn't happen often, it's great. :) The tradeoff is also one of scalable with cores going forward. I'd say that's probably good forward thinking at this point in time. Newer platform emulation will require much less synchronization and as always, we will eventually have enough CPU power and cores to run it adequately.

You have to understand that the the goal of the design was a generic, scalable emulation platform that won't be choked off going forward. Although I question the practicality of several areas and details as it applies to some platforms, the concept presented is sound. The author has spent many years on this. It's not like he just whipped it up yesterday. Much thought and care went into it.
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RomanWarrior

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 03:54:56 pm »
I wonder if it is compatible with the new genesis games

I.S.T.

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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 04:58:02 pm »
Depends on if they use bankswitching and the like. Nothing with added in hardware aside from SRAM is supported. So, that means bankswitching games are out and I think those new ones, at least Pier Solar, use bankswitching.
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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 06:06:41 am »
The tradeoff is also one of scalable with cores going forward.
That is a claim to be treated with skepticism for anything without empirical data, ample academic research, or formal proof.

Don’t get me wrong, they have some very smart and unprecedented things in there (at least as far as console emulation goes), and the author seems to be under no delusion that this is anything but a matter of needing to break new ground. The fact is that unless we discover new truths about the field traditional problems with concurrency will come for us all, leaving the potential performance face down in a pool of its own blood and not even felling the least bit guilty. Scalability is very often a falsehood unless calculations are parallel rather than concurrent. Memento mori.
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Re: Exodus - A new Genesis emulator
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 07:01:25 am »
Next one will be called leviticus , I'm sure of it :P