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Author Topic: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle  (Read 5416 times)

Garoth Moulinoski

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2012, 05:13:22 pm »
Hmm, perhaps not oppose so much as delay.  After all, said managers eventually got their wish.

There's a Yoshi's Story for Wii?! O_o (or is that an upscale of the n64 one?)
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DankPanties

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2012, 08:42:54 am »
I think it's a Dolphin shot of the N64 game.  The point is, there was eventually a Yoshi platfomer in which the sprites and backgrounds came from prerendered 3D CG such as DKC.

Garoth Moulinoski

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2012, 08:48:48 am »
I think it's a Dolphin shot of the N64 game.  The point is, there was eventually a Yoshi platfomer in which the sprites and backgrounds came from prerendered 3D CG such as DKC.

Ah. To be honest, I only ever played the N64 one like... twice in my whole life. For some reason, I couldn't get into it. Didn't notice the graphics were prerendered 3D. Huh.
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DankPanties

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2012, 09:12:59 am »
For some reason, I couldn't get into it.

Probably the same reason you couldn't get into Touch & Go.  Half-hearted Yoshi games Nintendo shat out with no fucks detected.

Garoth Moulinoski

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2012, 10:29:13 am »
Probably the same reason you couldn't get into Touch & Go.  Half-hearted Yoshi games Nintendo shat out with no fucks detected.

Aye. I bought Touch & Go based on all the praise that Yoshi's Island got. I returned it the following day. Would have been just alright if it had been a sort of free/cheap downloadable tech demo, although I still wouldn't play it much more than what I already had (which was... like... 30 minutes?).

Later on, I played the Yoshi's Island. I didn't get too far, but it wasn't the game's fault. If it had been up to me, I would probably have continued. ...Or maybe I did get bored with the game after a while too, but it was still universes better than Touch & Go.
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DankPanties

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2012, 10:42:57 am »
I've only beat Yoshi's Island on the SNES, and it was/is a glorious experience.  One of my top 3 platformer picks of all time.  That said, I haven't tried the DS iteration.  I have heard conflicting reports saying it's great and it's shit.  What I really can't seem to clarify, is if the DS version is a port, or a remake with changes, or a sequel in and of itself.  There are various articles all over the internet that say all three of those things are true.  One thing they all agree on though; the DS version is harder than the SNES one was.

KingMike

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2012, 10:50:22 am »
There's a Yoshi's Story for Wii?! O_o (or is that an upscale of the n64 one?)
Technically if you count a VC release. :)
Quote
Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, on Christmas sales of the PS3:
"It's a little fortuitous that the Wii is running out of hardware."

LostTemplar

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2012, 11:07:28 am »
One thing they all agree on though; the DS version is harder than the SNES one was.

And that's an absolute necessity as the original was way too easy. I think my girlfriend tried the DS one once but hated some new sound effects so she didn't continue playing it (yeah, she's picky like that). That's all I know about it anyway.

DankPanties

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2012, 11:19:37 am »
And yet I still don't know if the DS one is a remixed remake or a pseudo-sequel or what...  :P

MegaManJuno

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2012, 11:31:08 am »
Never played it, but this made it sound like more of a pseudo-sequel/remix, to me.

Garoth Moulinoski

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2012, 11:37:12 am »
And yet I still don't know if the DS one is a remixed remake or a pseudo-sequel or what...  :P

You have new babies or something on the DS one. So... It's like a remix...
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SargeSmash

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2012, 12:10:43 pm »
It's new.  It was developed by Artoon, the same guys that did...  um, Blinx.

It didn't have the same magic that the SNES game did, but it's not a bad game at all.  I never finished it, though.  I got 100% on every stage in the original, though.  Without a Game Genie.  Or save states.  On the original console.  (Yeah, I didn't have much to play back then.)
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DankPanties

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2012, 12:23:29 pm »
It's new.  It was developed by Artoon, the same guys that did...  um, Blinx.

By "new", do you mean all the levels are different, there are new enemies, new bosses, and new art assets?

Garoth Moulinoski

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2012, 12:25:22 pm »
By "new", do you mean all the levels are different, there are new enemies, new bosses, and new art assets?

New as in... It looks like it's the same game for a while. Then you get another baby to carry around.
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SargeSmash

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 12:26:29 pm »
Yep.  The whole thing is a completely different game.  There's some reuse of enemies and bosses, but there are a few new ones, too.  And they're using different sprites as well for things.  And the levels are all different, for sure.
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MisterJones

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2012, 03:36:35 pm »
It's sort of a reboot. Similar elements and gameplay and shit, but different game.


Also, I should hi-five sarge.I was the same with YI
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Panzer88

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2012, 07:39:03 pm »
You seem to not realize that in order for games to continuously keep "looking better", in turn, their development costs must continue to increase.

This isnt the first time you've confused hardware power with production values. I'd say it's a very safe bet to say that shadow complex costed less to make than Super Metroid.

Super Metroid has better production values, but shadow complex has better hardware power behind it. The same is true for Zelda Four Swords Adventures (gamecube) vs A Link to the Past.

A link to the Past cost more and has better production values, but Four Swords Adventures has more hardware Power. An example of a series that had an ever shrinking budget, and thus the production values went down  with each release, despite having a better engine would be the SSX series. The games got more and more generic and streamlined due to lack of funds.

Another example would be the later Crash Bandicoot games, which while being technically superior, as far as hardware power, the art and gameplay weren't up to snuff because they weren't made by naughty dog.

You say for new hardware to exist and be utilized, they must have even higher production values, like a game like uncharted. I completely disagree. Look at games like Rayman Legends or Oil Rush, they dont have huge budgets, but they utilize new technology.

Mario is a great example. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is still cutting edge, but Nintendo never makes games with enormous budgets, and I doubt they are going to change the way they do things anytime soon.

July 26, 2012, 08:03:08 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
You are simply ready for even more impressive graphics I think.

Did you just call me a graphics whore? Im not playing battlefield 3, Rage, Far Cry 3, Crysis 2, etc. Last week I played Dawn of War ( a PC RTS circa 2004) and a ton of Dreamcast games. Im not desperate for new graphics. I dont even own a PS3, I play at my friend's house. The first console I ever played was an NES in 1993, and yet I own an Atari VCS, Colecovision, Intelevision, Sega Mark III, etc. I have an assortment of controllers and arcade sticks for my several famicoms. I frequent message boards primarily focused on old video game consoles. If anything I could be accused of being unhealthily stuck in the past. I dont want a new system simply because I have to have better graphics. I want a new hardware cycle because I am sick of this one, Im bored with it, and Im ready for things to be shaken up, for something new. Because consoles jumped from 480i to 720p this generation, that sucked up a lot of their power. Because of this they are neutered. The 360 only has 512mb of ram, the ps3 has 256mb + 256mb vram. Things could be a lot better, all games could be a solid 60fps, but right now most games are a shakey 30fps. No one seems to care either, which is distressing. Things could be much better.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 08:06:30 pm by Panzer88 »
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MisterJones

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2012, 08:05:58 pm »
It still doesnt state how they sed that hardwareto bring new stuff in the table. Like very specifically.
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Panzer88

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2012, 08:20:13 pm »
As for Yoshi's Island, the joke is that is has BETTER graphics than DKC, it certainly has better production values, as well as better game mechanics.

The reason they changed things up with Yoshi Story were probably two-fold

1. Making computer models was easier and cheaper, especially creating the patterns like patchwork etc.
2. It looked more "3D" which was important on the N64.

Had the game been given proper attention, time, and budget, I would imagine it would look like Mario Story (Paper Mario in the USA) and be as long as the original Yoshi Island

I've only beat Yoshi's Island on the SNES, and it was/is a glorious experience.  One of my top 3 platformer picks of all time.  That said, I haven't tried the DS iteration.  I have heard conflicting reports saying it's great and it's shit.  What I really can't seem to clarify, is if the DS version is a port, or a remake with changes, or a sequel in and of itself.  There are various articles all over the internet that say all three of those things are true.  One thing they all agree on though; the DS version is harder than the SNES one was.
Yoshi Island DS is not a remake, remix, or reimagining, it is a sequel, they were calling it Yoshis Island 2 up until 2 weeks before the USA launch of the game. It has all new levels, and none of the levels from the previous games. Think of it as a very direct sequel, as they dont add too many new features.

Think of Super Mario, the lost levels, or a mega man sequel, basically more of similar ideas, which isnt bad, considering how fun the original YI was. It isnt as groundbreaking as YI, but is still lots of fun. It is the only other yoshi game I like other than YI. They should make more.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 10:05:03 pm by Panzer88 »
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LostTemplar

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Re: The Obscenely Long Current Console Cycle
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2012, 12:58:29 am »
This isnt the first time you've confused hardware power with production values. I'd say it's a very safe bet to say that shadow complex costed less to make than Super Metroid.

No, it's not. If you're going to assume anything like this, please insert sources and citations. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure he's talking about the average production cost, which has gone up over the years:

Quote from: Wikipedia
However, approaching the 21st century, ever-increasing computer processing power and heightened consumer expectations made it impossible for a single developer to produce a mainstream game. The average price of game production slowly rose from US$1M–4M in 2000 to over 5M in 2006 to over 20M in 2010.

Okay, Wikipedia might not be the most reliable source, so also here. There probably are a lot of other sources as well. To avoid any confusion: average means that yes, there still are games that are less expensive than some games in the 90s, but it's not the norm.

I dont even own a PS3, I play at my friend's house.

Wow, either you at least have a 360 or you hang out a lot at your friend's if you're tired of the current generation already. This actually reminds me of my childhood. We used to hang out almost every day and play some videogames!

Because consoles jumped from 480i to 720p this generation, that sucked up a lot of their power. Because of this they are neutered. The 360 only has 512mb of ram, the ps3 has 256mb + 256mb vram. Things could be a lot better, all games could be a solid 60fps, but right now most games are a shakey 30fps. No one seems to care either, which is distressing. Things could be much better.

It also made them look a whole lot better. And they are in no way neutered. Sure, they can't compare to PCs regarding their RAM sizes, but they also shouldn't need as much (for the record: I don't deny that more RAM would be better, and that e.g. level design could allegedly get better with more RAM). But look at games like FFXIII, for example. I think that one's pretty mature technically, because it was specifically developed with the consoles in mind. Most games using some bought cross-platform engine (like the Unreal one) just can't reach this point of maturity, but this isn't really the consoles' fault. Also, the PC already has everything you stated: more RAM, better frame rates, even better resolutions at times. So where are your killer games?