So school me on Vagrant Story.

[DankPanties]

The reason I stopped playing Xenogears wayyyyyyyy back years upon years ago, was the encounter rate was too high for my tastes.  I am more of a manly man gamer now and I probably wouldn't mind these days.  I will play that game again and give it its fair dues.

-

So... yeah, I went and started playing Vagrant Story again last night, for the first time in 9 years or so.  Holy mother of all things unholy is this game fucking awesome.  I had actually forgot just how insanely good it is.  The production values are through the roof, the plot actually has depth, the gameplay is deep as Leviathan's balls... it's just fantastic in the extreme.  I will definitely beat it this time.  I'm actually glad I waited so long, because I will appreciate it more now then I would have back in 2000.  Also the game looks absolutely sick in ePSXe at high resolution... better than some PS2 games I've played.  I don't even mind being able to see the dimples on Ashley Riot's ass.

[Gideon Zhi]

The reason I stopped playing Xenogears wayyyyyyyy back years upon years ago, was the encounter rate was too high for my tastes.  I am more of a manly man gamer now and I probably wouldn't mind these days.  I will play that game again and give it its fair dues.

Just do so on an emulator with a fast forward button, or with that patch that lets you fast-forward the text. 'cuz seriously, goddamn.

[SargeSmash]

Just do so on an emulator with a fast forward button, or with that patch that lets you fast-forward the text. 'cuz seriously, goddamn.

Agreed on that.  It and Breath of Fire III are two of the worst offenders in that regard.  Except Xenogears has many, many more reams of text.

EDIT:  Speaking of BOFIII, is there a patch out there for it as well?  I'd love to finish that off someday.

[DankPanties]

I actually beat BOFIII back in 2009.  Man, that game was trash.   Nice graphics and excellent music, that's it.  I do not understand why anyone likes it honestly.  I kept playing thinking "it must get better".  It. only. got. worse.

[SargeSmash]

BOFIII was...  yeah, I liked BOFII better.  And BOFIV is probably my favorite of the series.  Never finished Dragon Quarter, but it does some interesting stuff.

[LostTemplar]

I actually beat BOFIII back in 2009.  Man, that game was trash.   Nice graphics and excellent music, that's it.  I do not understand why anyone likes it honestly.

I actually like it, but probably only because of nostalgia-glasses. Looking at it objectively, there definitely is a lot wrong with it. I don't know the English one, but aside from the gameplay issues the German translation was crappy beyond belief. It's the worst translation I've ever played.

I think that BoF4 is a far better game, though.

[SargeSmash]

If it's based on the English translation, then yeah, that would explain why it sucked.  It was a step up from the train wreck that was BOFII, but not by much.  And again, the text speed...  gah.

[DankPanties]

I really enjoyed the SNES version of BOFI, and beat it back in '98.

I played the SNES version of BOFII up until the Frog Kingdom section.  That was as much as I could stomach, and quit the game there.  That was in 2001 IIRC.

I played and beat the PS1 version of BOFIII in 2009.  As I said, I hated the game.  I kept playing trying to figure out what the deal with it was (no deal, just nostalgia glasses).  But man, that game had an amazing jazz OST.

I have not played BOFIV or BOFV yet.

[LostTemplar]

If it's based on the English translation, then yeah, that would explain why it sucked.

There are many places that make me think so. One thing that always bugged was this: In German, you have four different translations for "you", one for each combination of singular/plural and normal/polite. It's obvious that the translators didn't have any context, because the four words are messed up very often. It's very weird to read Ryu addressing Nina as plural+polite...

I have not played BOFIV or BOFV yet.

BOFV is very different. I liked it, though. It's a shame that there were no other sequels.

[Gideon Zhi]

I have not played BOFIV or BOFV yet.

Dragon Quarter is freaking phenomenal.

[vivify93]

Dragon Quarter is freaking phenomenal.

BoFV is my #2 favorite game of all time, so I quite agree. :p

[DankPanties]

Isn't BOFV the one where you keep dying and having to restart the game, just to get a little further each time?  Thereby having to replay vast sections of the game over and over?  I remember back in the day people complaining about this, saying it was a thinly veiled way to artificially lengthen game time.  At any rate, the concept explained to me the way it was, is what kept me from playing it.

[Talbain]

Dragon Quarter is freaking phenomenal.

Indeed.
May 10, 2012, 08:20:29 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Isn't BOFV the one where you keep dying and having to restart the game, just to get a little further each time?  Thereby having to replay vast sections of the game over and over?  I remember back in the day people complaining about this, saying it was a thinly veiled way to artificially lengthen game time.  At any rate, the concept explained to me the way it was, is what kept me from playing it.

If you know what you're doing, it can be reasonably beaten on the first attempt.  A guide is the easiest way to one shot it.  The game's not that long anyway.

[DankPanties]

Okay, it's great.  Everybody says it's great.  I get that.

Why?

Why is it great?

Does it cuddle after we make love?

Playing a game that requires a guide to play it properly doesn't sound too fun...

[Talbain]

Okay, it's great.  Everybody says it's great.  I get that.

Why?

Why is it great?

Does it cuddle after we make love?

Playing a game that requires a guide to play it properly doesn't sound too fun...

It's honestly more enjoyable to play it without one, learning from your mistakes.

As for what makes it great, aside from the fantastic plot and endearing characters, the system itself is ingenious, discouraging the brood and giving a real reason as to why they shouldn't be used and can't be controlled.  Plus it's a jRPG that's actually difficult, and actively discourages mindless grinding (something even Nocturne is susceptible to, despite its brilliant fusion and battle systems).

Put another way, it's difficult due to its systems, not due to artifice, like Chrono Trigger is (excepting Spekkio and getting certain endings).  A bit more specific - I can make any part of Chrono Trigger ridiculously easy by just spending more time at it.  In other words, I can trivialize almost every encounter without a lot of actual thought.  Dragon Quarter doesn't really provide answers that are always obvious, it requires a new and different manner of thinking about its systems at times to progress.  Which is great, and it means that it's leveraging the systems in the game and fully extending and expanding them to create consistent interest.

[KaioShin]

Isn't BOFV the one where you keep dying and having to restart the game, just to get a little further each time?  Thereby having to replay vast sections of the game over and over?  I remember back in the day people complaining about this, saying it was a thinly veiled way to artificially lengthen game time.  At any rate, the concept explained to me the way it was, is what kept me from playing it.

Yes. It's utter game design fail on 50 different levels. If you do actually beat it on the first playthrough (which without a guide is IMO hardly possible) then you are in turn missing out on a ton of additional cutscenes and characterization. No matter how you dress it up, the game DOES strongly encourage you to replay huge portions several times, so it is a cheap way of artifically lengthening the game time. I found BoFV pretty horrible even long before I got fed up with JRPGs, at the time I was still happily sucking up all of them. This one smelled even back then.

[Talbain]

Yes. It's utter game design fail on 50 different levels. If you do actually beat it on the first playthrough (which without a guide is IMO hardly possible) then you are in turn missing out on a ton of additional cutscenes and characterization. No matter how you dress it up, the game DOES strongly encourage you to replay huge portions several times, so it is a cheap way of artifically lengthening the game time. I found BoFV pretty horrible even long before I got fed up with JRPGs, at the time I was still happily sucking up all of them. This one smelled even back then.

This is kind of like saying that Dark Souls artificially lengthens the game if you fail to get back to your corpse after dying.  Failing to understand the systems is not the game's fault.

[DankPanties]

It's honestly more enjoyable to play it without one, learning from your mistakes.

Well I haven't played the game, so I can't outright say yes or no to that.  I will admit having to replay JRPG sections over and over would annoy me immensely though (hopefully you can skip cutscenes).  I'll try it someday regardless, but I'm more interested in part IV.  I think BOFV was a big experiment in gameplay design... and it should have been called Dragon Quarter without the Breath Of Fire part stuck on the front. Such a big change in game design seems a little out of place for a franchise name continuation.

long before I got fed up with JRPGs

Well I understand that is how you feel these days.  However, I can only imagine there must be at least a handful you look back upon with reverence.  Aside from Suikoden 2 and Xenoblade, what other JRPGs do you admire?  Just curious, not trying to bait you honestly.

[KaioShin]

This is kind of like saying that Dark Souls artificially lengthens the game if you fail to get back to your corpse after dying.  Failing to understand the systems is not the game's fault.

Apples and Oranges.

Dark Souls punishes you for bad gameplay. But it's prefectly possible to beat it without dying if you are good enough or at least with you getting back to your corpse.
Dragon Quarter punishes you for everything no matter what you do. If you beat it instantly you'll miss out on story, if you die then you have to replay huge portions over and over. That's bad game design, period.

[Talbain]

if you die then you have to replay huge portions over and over. That's bad game design, period.

So Dark Souls has bad game design?  And Demon's Souls?

I mean, honestly I couldn't disagree more.  Death is supposed to feel like a punishment, not something you shrug off without a second thought.

I'd say that's just conditioning, not bad game design.  We're too used to death not mattering.  Now it suddenly matters, and our only response is that it's bad game design?  I think it makes the game design better, not worse, and it makes life in the game world seem relevant.