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Author Topic: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts  (Read 7122 times)

Darkdata

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Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« on: March 23, 2012, 07:22:06 am »
http://www.timewalkgames.com/

Including: Mario Adventure, Zelda Parallel Worlds, and The Treasure of Rudras translation.

Just thought I should let everyone know, just in case they were not aware of people using their work. Romhacking is on grey ground as it is.

Auryn

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 08:51:14 am »
This will piss off some people in this forum  :angel:

Where are all those copyright protecting agencies (RIAA or what ever they are called) when you need them?

Anyway I don't believe he will do much of a business with those prices.

Nightcrawler

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 09:57:29 am »
Topics like this are a double edged sword. We don't want to give them advertising on RHDN, but at the same time nobody can be made aware of them without a link. The very nature of mentioning them here probably aids in their business. :-\
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DaMarsMan

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 10:18:30 am »
In some sense they are providing a service. Not everyone knows how to put a translation on a real SNES. I think it's kind of a cool thing to do and I'd be happy to see someone selling a Glory of Heracles 3 repro cart. Most rom hackers would disagree though.

MathOnNapkins

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 10:28:25 am »
I feel sorry for anybody that buys Super Metroid Redesign as an actual cart. That is, assuming it was the original "final" release - anyone playing it is going to be swearing at their TV a lot. I imagined (d'oh) managed to beat it eventually on my flash cart, but it was quite nerve wracking at times.

In any case, stuff like this makes me more want to put anti repro features into any work I end up releasing >:(... but it's probably futile in the end anyways. I do recall that D (aka D--, Dboy) saw some of his own work being exploited like this and supposedly filed a DMCA takedown request or similar. I technically could do that for Redesign as some of my code is in it ;D.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 01:16:56 pm by MathOnNapkins »

puzzledude

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 12:58:54 pm »
Similar thing happened to my work. We make new mod games because we love the work. We dont want someone to sell it. The ips file is freeware and our work completely, the original rom however is not. Thus the copyright for selling a mod is up to Nintendo and the moder, not some mf, who thinks he's cool, if he can put it on actual cart. Seriously, Zelda Parallel Wordls on actual hardware, with no save states. Not a chance for anyone on the planet to solve this, unless he is a prodigy.

Because of this kind of questionable actions I am seriously thinking of making my next work an exlorom.

PS If you are selling something, ask your self, do you own it. You have to own it in order to sell it (this logical statement is obviously not logical for some people).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 01:04:55 pm by puzzledude »

curses

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 01:06:02 pm »
I feel sorry for anybody that buys Super Metroid Redesign as an actual cart. That is, assuming it was the original "final" release - anyone playing it is going to be swearing at their TV a lot. I imagined to beat it eventually on my flash cart, but it was quite nerve wracking at times.


I heard that the author of Redesign is working on a new version that will be somewhat easier.

I played that game legitimately right up until the end. There is a place where you have to choose between going left and going right. If you choose wrong, you will lose the game and be faced with redoing a looooong and challenging sequence.

Screw that.

Burzy

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 01:10:29 pm »
I love the idea of wanting to reproduce the "real cart/console feel" myself, but cringe at the thought it someone selling these carts.

To have it done by you, for you, for fun and  atmosphere is one thing, but to attempt to industrialize a hobby-scene, could force the hand of lawmakers, thus ruining things for everyone.
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MathOnNapkins

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2012, 01:26:49 pm »
I heard that the author of Redesign is working on a new version that will be somewhat easier.

Yeah, Axeil edition. I'm supposed to contribute some code to it when I find the time :-\.

I played that game legitimately right up until the end. There is a place where you have to choose between going left and going right. If you choose wrong, you will lose the game and be faced with redoing a looooong and challenging sequence.

What part is that?

The one that pissed me off in particular during the ending sequence was right near the end of it. You have to wall jump up a shaft near the upper left of Crateria, and I was almost to the top, and them melted down momentarily and fell. As I was trying to get back up, acid started filling up at the bottom of the room, and since Mother Brain takes away gravity suit in Redesign, I was unable to jump out of it. I about punched my TV. 23 minutes gone, just like that. Redesign is like playing Super Metroid, but with many more life or death situations. Drew has shown me a lot of screens that temper the insane difficulty and make it a lot more fair, without removing the challenge completely.

Glad to hear someone else has beaten the game legitimately though (and by that we mean no save states.)

KingMike

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2012, 02:54:28 pm »
I feel sorry for anybody that buys Super Metroid Redesign as an actual cart. That is, assuming it was the original "final" release - anyone playing it is going to be swearing at their TV a lot.
I agree. I tried to play that and felt it was completely the wrong kind of challenge. Over-reliance on wall-jumping (which I recall was a common theme in SM hacks), but I remember this one also changed the wall-jumping physics so it was even harder than the original (which I had just started to get a grasp on). And it also gave enemies more HP, which I don't think increases challenge as much as it does annoyance.
But maybe I just don't agree with the hacker on what a Metroid "challenge" hack is. To me, Metroid is more about exploration for secrets than about tricky platforming.

I recall playing Metroid Limit and it was pretty reasonable until near the end. I think this is the one I was thinking of: first Super Missile and Power Bomb were in the same room, but you could only take one because you had to enter from different doors. And it would seem there is a bug in the SM engine where the game doesn't remember which power-ups you got, just if each screen is clear. So, since you can only take one power-up without leaving the room, the other will de-spawn where you return.
(though maybe it was easier to program the game that way, so the original was designed around that flaw)
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Jedi QuestMaster

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2012, 04:23:57 pm »
At least they're green. ::)
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Why do you use donors?

I find it very green :) By using donors, I am not firing up a large, polluting factory to produce new boards and chips. There are literally thousands of available sports titles, which no one plays and are sitting on store shelves, which can be used. These titles, due to large quantity of production and low demand, will more than likely end up in landfills.

Honestly, though. Is it so much just to ask if it's okay to sell someone's romhack? It's not like we're hiding behind a wall here. Authors' contact info is usually in the txt file.

I let The NES Dump post my Contra translation. Though someone told me now there's a glitch that makes the game harder. :-\
And I'll leave it at that!

optomon

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2012, 06:25:51 pm »
I actually like it when people repro games. Hacks get playable on a console, sounds like a plus. I doubt any hacker intends to make a cent of profit at all when they work on a project, so why would it piss off people here? Because they don't credit the hackers? It spotlights the theoretical illegal side of the hobby in some way?

Has there ever been a case where someone stopped selling romhack repros because a video gaming company got on their case? They are small fish in a very grey pond. I don't think anyone would bother to take it to litigation, unless it somehow significantly impacts the industry, and as far as I know, romhacking has never come close to doing that. (Has it?)

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2012, 06:28:33 pm »
I actually like it when people repro games. Hacks get playable on a console, sounds like a plus. I doubt any hacker intends to make a cent of profit at all when they work on a project, so why would it piss off people here? Because they don't credit the hackers? It spotlights the theoretical illegal side of the hobby in some way?

It's one thing if it's just materials plus a little labor. It's another when the prices are inflated and the repro guy is obviously making a heavy per-sale profit - compare prices at The NES Dump to the prices at Timewalk; Timewalk is generally twice as expensive. Then it becomes an issue of some douchebag making a profit off of someone else's hard work.

curses

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2012, 11:37:39 pm »
Quote from: curses
There is a place where you have to choose between going left and going right. If you choose wrong, you will lose the game and be faced with redoing a looooong and challenging sequence.

What part is that?

The one that pissed me off in particular during the ending sequence was right near the end of it. You have to wall jump up a shaft near the upper left of Crateria, and I was almost to the top, and them melted down momentarily and fell. As I was trying to get back up, acid started filling up at the bottom of the room, and since Mother Brain takes away gravity suit in Redesign, I was unable to jump out of it.

I think it's the part that is just before the section you describe. I was on such a roll, too.

DarknessSavior

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 12:08:18 am »
What's the pricing/what do you get at The NES Dump? Because this guy makes high quality stuff. He even makes instruction manuals for the games. It looks very professional and very well done. I think he deserves to charge a bit for the work he puts into making the box/manual/cart.

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DaMarsMan

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 12:51:48 am »
I'm with DarknessSavior on this.... He's providing value to the marketplace. I would also argue that he should give credit to the translation groups... However, I'm a libertarian and I don't see what he is doing as wrong... It's not like companies are still making profits off these games... Copyright is a joke... It used to be about 5 years... Now everything goes to an estate.... Ensuring wealth to your family forever without ever having to innovate again!

Pennywise

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 01:17:49 am »
I think it makes more sense to buy a flash cart or powerpak instead of spending money on repros and being delusional thinking that the translation/hack is an official release or something. It would save money in the long run if someone wanted to play more than a few on their original systems, which any true fan would surely want.

tashi

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 10:09:32 am »
In a perfect world, the $95 price point would scare off casual consumers, so hopefully someone who is in the market for repros is probably aware of the ROM hacking community and as such should be aware that these translation patches and hacks are provided free of charge on various websites (author's homepages, RHDN, etc). Those same savvy consumers would also be aware that a flash cart would provide significantly more utility. Therefore, only people who know this stuff is free, but just really want a plastic cartridge with an instruction manual will be buying the repros. I don't claim to understand the motivation, but I'm not going to knock it.

If the above scenario is accurate, then he is a jerk for selling the blood and sweat of others, but I see no real harm in it.

If, however, innocent people are being misled into believing the ONLY way to play these games is by spending $95 for a repro cart, he is an evil man taking advantage of uninformed consumers. I think the situation could be greatly improved if he would provide a disclaimer that the games he is selling can be obtained for free along with a link to a project page for each hack. Instead of making a $95 purchased based on a  sensationalist tagline ("Think your[sic] good at Super Metroid? Now is your chance to prove it."), one could read more in-depth information about what the hack does, see a list of bugs, screenshots, etc.

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 12:20:20 pm »
If, however, innocent people are being misled into believing the ONLY way to play these games is by spending $95 for a repro cart, he is an evil man taking advantage of uninformed consumers. I think the situation could be greatly improved if he would provide a disclaimer that the games he is selling can be obtained for free along with a link to a project page for each hack. Instead of making a $95 purchased based on a  sensationalist tagline ("Think your[sic] good at Super Metroid? Now is your chance to prove it."), one could read more in-depth information about what the hack does, see a list of bugs, screenshots, etc.

I would be okay with this, especially if there was extra information provided about alternatives such as the SNES PowerPak and sd2snes (i.e. "This isn't even the only way you can play these on your own console.")

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 03:12:45 pm »
If I want a repro of one of my game translations made. I'll do it myself. The Internet has many resources that will allow you to do that. If I sell it to one of my friends, I'll test it and charge a decent price. If I wanted to do that with anothers persons translation. I would need to get permission from the authors, no expensive prices, and give the authors some of the money I get from it.
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