Let's talk about the Ace Attorney series for a minute?

[DankPanties]

Aside from RPGs, I'd say my other favorite genre has to be adventure games.  One thing I love about the DS, is it has no shortage of those.  I've played quite a few really great ones on that glorious machine (the apex being Hotel Dusk).  One of those "great ones" happened to be Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.  I finished and immensely enjoyed that installment back in 2007.  It was innovative, quirky, challenging-yet-fair, and overall a beacon of how to make a great adventure game.  Afterwards, I had every intention of continuing on with the series.  And yet, that didn't happen for quite some time.

So here we are in 2012.  Nearly five years later, I've finally gotten on with the sequel Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All.  Currently I'm about halfway through the third case in that game.  And much to my disappointment, I'm finding I have to force myself to play this.  Without going into too many dire specifics... it boils down to finding the cases' subject matter boring, and the solution finding is often random and tedious.  So many of the new characters are completely uninteresting.  Especially Pearl Fey and Franziska von Karma.  Neither do I find endearing, both I find annoying.  Now I had read before that Justice For All is the black sheep of the Ace Attorney canon, and I think I agree.  Whereas the first game I devoured and enjoyed smoothly, this installment seems the complete opposite... it's rough going, and boring.  I have a hard time reconciling how Shu Takumi somehow wrote and directed both of these games.

My first question to those who have played this series; do you agree about the sequel?  Did you find Justice For All to be not nearly as good as Ace Attorney?  Or did you like it the same, or more?  Is it the black sheep?  Or am I just missing something here?  Does the fourth case of Justice For All make up for the lackluster second and third cases?  I've read the fourth case is the longest and most in-depth at any rate.

My next question; if I stopped playing Justice For All right now, would that diminish my enjoyment in any way for Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations?  I ask because I've heard the third game is the best in the series thus far.  Yet, the third game often makes references to events that happened in the first two games.  I don't want to miss in-jokes or poignant references.

How do you guys feel about Apollo Justice?

What's the general consensus for Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth?  I ask because AFAIK Shu wasn't the guy behind this installment.  So I'm wondering if it feels much different.

I'd appreciate hearing the thoughts of Ace Attorney veterans on these matters.  Without spoilers of course!

[KaioShin]

It's foolishly foolish to not adore tsunderely tsundere Franziska

I think I agree that part 2 was the main trilogy's low point, but it's been a while, I don't remember things too well. Part 3 has references to all the other 2 games, but I don't remember how extensive they were. Apollo Justice was meh, mostly because the new hero and his sidekick just suck hard. Miles Edgeworth had slightly different gameplay, but in terms of humour and writing I found it a return to form of the original series, it was much better than Apollo Justice.

[DankPanties]

It's foolishly foolish to not adore tsunderely tsundere Franziska

I think you just have a nationalistic attachment to her.     Her nonstop whippity whipped whipping is only slightly less annoying than her redundantly redundant redundancies.

Apollo Justice was meh, mostly because the new hero and his sidekick just suck hard.

Interesting.  Did not Shu also create part 4?

[Nec5]

Not to derail the topic, but I've never understood what the "adventure game" genre is.  Everything seems to be an adventure game.  Hudson's Adventure Island is by its name an adventure game, but I guess it's a platformer instead?  Very confusing.

[Jedi QuestMaster]

I know one of the cases in the third game includes a character from the last case in the second game.

The last case gets kind of interesting. And since you don't like Franziska, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find out that she...

Spoiler:

has it coming for her.

I think it's worth completing. My brother & I play these games alongside just for the story aspect, & whenever we start getting bored or stuck, we pull out the ol' GameFAQs.

[Ryusui]

You need to play Justice for All through. The grand finale is nothing short of pure awesome. :3

[DankPanties]

Not to derail the topic, but I've never understood what the "adventure game" genre is.

IMO when the gameplay focuses on progressing an engrossing story, through the use of location exploration, dialogue choices, and item/logic based puzzles.

-

I don't hang there much, but I found an extensive thread on NeoGAF all about this thread's primary issue.  Seems the general consensus is that Justice For All definitely is the worst game of the series, but its final case is one of the best.  Looks like I'll suffer through the big top bullshit to find out.

[Bregalad]

I don't remember much of the first 3 cases, but the 4th case is REALLY epic, so you don't want to miss it ! (and it's no lie)

It's true Justice for All might be the "worst of the series", but I think it's still ok. Personally I couldn't sleep when I was playing those games I did all 4 (including Apollo Justice) in like a week.

Apollo Justice is definitely not as good as the main series, it might have better music, the cases are OK but the cases overall lack epicness, and you're forced to play through the game 2 times to fully understand the events.

[DankPanties]

I couldn't sleep when I was playing those games I did all 4 (including Apollo Justice) in like a week.

Wow that had to be an epic experience.  And epic eye strain.

[Auryn]

...and if you play slowly enough, you will get Ace Attorney Investigation 2 fan translation and Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney at the right time :p

[Jedi QuestMaster]

Gee, I hope playing the Investigations spinoffs don't spoil anything because I haven't played Apollo Justice yet. [/sarcasm]

When is Professor Layton v. Ace Attorney supposed to take place, if it's at all canon?

[Darkmoon]

The circus case?  Yeah, that one got on my nerves too.  Ugh, between the clown and the ventriloquist alone...  That one dragged a bit...


As far as Apollo Justice...  I enjoyed it.  It's not without some flaws, but it's still worth playing, IMO.  The Edgeworth game was good too, but I felt it was lacking a little something.  Something I can't quite put my finger on... 

[KaioShin]

When is Professor Layton v. Ace Attorney supposed to take place

Hopefully never, I can't think of a more disgusting series rape. Yeah I know it's already official and everything, but I can still hope the producer gets hit by a meteor or something. The gameplay of the two series doesn't fit in any way at all and the humour and storytelling designs do not go together either. One is filled with puns and whacky humour and the other is just written like an episode of a saturday morning cartoon for 6 year olds. This will suck HARD.

[Jorpho]

I've played quite a few really great ones on that glorious machine (the apex being Hotel Dusk).

You are aware that Hotel Dusk's sequel, Last Window, was released in Europe, right?  (I am very pleased to have recently secured a copy, even though the sensible thing would have been to simply play it on my R4 and be done with it.)

You need to play Justice for All through. The grand finale is nothing short of pure awesome. :3

The final case in Justice For All almost makes up for the third case.  I only recently started playing Trials and Tribulations, so I can't really comment there.  (I have some sick notion of "savoring" things like this, which means I never get around to them at all...)

[Auryn]

I heard that PLvsAA should take place in a parallel universe but not sure if it's true.
I wouldn't say they not fit together, you need logic in both games and I let me surprise how they combined the 2 games even if I am not a fan of PL.

[DankPanties]

You are aware that Hotel Dusk's sequel, Last Window, was released in Europe, right?

Indeed, it was my personal GOTY for 2010.  I even wrote a meaty review for it back then.

The final case in Justice For All almost makes up for the third case.

You seem to be a no-nonsense fellow, so I'll take that on your word.  I need strong word to suffer through the circus case, which I'm halfway through at the moment.  I would much rather be the prosecutor against my client in this case.

I have some sick notion of "savoring" things like this

Never game today!

[BRPXQZME]

I didn’t have a problem with the characters in 2-3, to be honest. Equal justice under the crippling hunger of not getting paid, and all that. The case itself, though, aaaagggghhhHHHHHH

[DankPanties]

I simply don't find Max, Moe, or Regina to be endearing in any way.  And the subject matter / plot structure of the third case is insipidly boring.  I mean, mind numbingly narcolepsy inducing boring.  It's taking me forever to get through because I'll play it for about 20 minutes, and start falling asleep.  Then I just go and do something else.  A game should not bore someone or put them to sleep, when it's doing that, it's failed at its primary objective.  OTOH, Ghost Trick and Ace Attorney did not have that effect on me.  So something is clearly wrong with Justice For All.  Wikipedia says "Although Justice for All received generally favorable reviews, it ends up being the least acclaimed of the series' titles."

I do like Ben, for what it counts!

[Bregalad]

The reason is probably because it has only 4 cases, while the original Ace Attorney have 5, and Trials and Tribulations have 4.5
Appolo Justice also have only 4 cases though.

[KaioShin]

while the original Ace Attorney have 5,

Not really true, the 5th case was a DS bonus, the original GBA version only had 4. That's why the others also only have 4 too, they didn't get any DS bonuses.