Wall Street Protests

[Talbain]

I think I'd be more interested in seeing an end to lobbying but a rebirth of direct democracy.  With the pervasiveness of the internet, I think it's feasible at this point.

[Nightcrawler]

I've always wondered why we don't start allowing some sort of direct voting via the Internet as well. You can throw out the easy security card, but look at our past elections. The paper ballet system was flawed. The electronic machines were flawed. How much worse could it be? *shrug*

While the current system is undesirable, I am also little scared of having direct democracy with even a larger percentage of uninformed masses voting! A quiz should be required before you're allowed to vote proving you know something about what you're voting on!

[Klarth]

@Nightcrawler

You hit on one of the things that have irked me lately.  Since the internet, the world has been moving much faster but government hasn't kept up.

I agree with you on direct democracy having tons of uninformed masses voting...unfortunately, any quiz/preknowledge system would be completely undermined by our political/business establishment.  Much like how politicians use gerrymandering for election rigging, ID regulations focused on discriminating against voters who are likely to vote for opponents, and truthiness in advertisements.  Too many Americans buy the narrative.

[Nightcrawler]

One other thing comes to mind. I tried to read the Healthcare reform (aka Obamacare) bill congress passed. As a college educated person I really had a tough time understanding exactly what it said. It's not the only bill I've had trouble with either. Something is fundamentally flawed when you pass articles that the majority of people wouldn't understand if they read it and try to be informed . It's like reading any other bloated legal document written by a bunch of lawyers, with the intention no one will understand it, and it will be free for them to manipulate to their will. What happened to writing something in plain English? The Constitution and Bill of Rights are pretty short and sweet. Our four-fathers cut to the point and didn't seem to get wrapped up in these games.

[SargeSmash]

It's taken quite a bit of studying to figure out what's in the ObamaCare bill.  "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill."  Thank you, Nancy Pelosi.

Yeah, the Constitution is amazingly short, sweet, and to the point.  Can we please go back to this?

[BRPXQZME]

You hit on one of the things that have irked me lately.  Since the internet, the world has been moving much faster but government hasn't kept up.

This problem is much older than the Internet. Wiretapping laws (for example) have pretty much never been in a satisfactory or at least sane balance between rights, crimefighting, and state of the art technology (similar things could be said of many other past technological issues such as traffic laws, industrial labor, etc.). Laws—and this is even with the best of intentions, mind you—tend to be made by people who are a couple decades too old to really grok the full implications, and that’s after years of not agreeing on what to do.

[I.S.T.]

It's taken quite a bit of studying to figure out what's in the ObamaCare bill.  "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill."  Thank you, Nancy Pelosi.

Yeah, the Constitution is amazingly short, sweet, and to the point.  Can we please go back to this?

You mean short and to the point bills?

Bills have been long as hell since I can remember, going back well before any of us were born...

[Nec5]

You mean short and to the point bills?

Bills have been long as hell since I can remember, going back well before any of us were born...

What's really bad is if you follow any of the actual debates in Congress and the process, the final bill has to go through a final phase where it gets put into "legislative language".  It's pretty horrific  when trained lawyers cannot decipher these bills.  It's also clearly an example of corruption.  And that corruption is bipartisan, so all those pollyannas who clamor for bipartisanship need to go back to smurf village (or better yet, just feed themselves to Gargamel).

[Talbain]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/us-wallstreet-protests-origins-idUSTRE79C1YN20111013?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=71

Not sure what this means exactly.

[Kiyoshi Aman]

Have some exceedingly relevant charts. (Disclaimer: I vetted this link with friends in the know.)

[Corsair]

I guess what irritates me, is that people seem to think it's okay and normal when Koch monies up the political animus of the Occupy. But when Soros does the same, it's like OHHHH CONSPIRACY.

Everyone is a hypocrite.

*becomes a hermit*

[SargeSmash]

It means that people have gone to great lengths to portray this movement as a spontaneous uprising.  Whether it is or is not is likely in the eye of the beholder, but it wouldn't be the first time that Soros has funded similar endeavors.

[Corsair]

It means that people have gone to great lengths to portray this movement as a spontaneous uprising.  Whether it is or is not is likely in the eye of the beholder, but it wouldn't be the first time that Koch has funded similar endeavors.

Yep.

I'm considering renting a cart with a fryer and selling funnel cakes at one of these things.

Not because I want to be part of the thing but everyone loves funnel cake, and I need money.



Let's see how some of these commies convictions hold up when the smell of deep fried dough comes wafting through the air! MWAHAHAHAHAH!

[SargeSmash]

Don't be goin' changin' my quotes, please.

Yep.

I'm considering renting a cart with a fryer and selling funnel cakes at one of these things.

Not because I want to be part of the thing but everyone loves funnel cake, and I need money.

That's awfully capitalistic of you. 

[Corsair]

That's because I believe that if everyone participating is ethical and doesn't try to shaft each other, capitalism is great, but it has to be maintained to prevent people from screwing each other over, or rewarding sociopathic behavior - like any other system/idea. I don't think we're doing enough of that. I also happen to be extremely liberal in my social views. Fucking in the streets, Hippies on crack, full-frontal nudity on television, Ia Ia Fhtagn, etc.

[SargeSmash]

Well, you've probably figured out my social views are rather conservative.  Oh well.

I can agree that capitalism has to be maintained to keep people from getting screwed.  By individuals, business or by government.  Unfortunately, in a nation this size, unless people are willing to govern themselves, there's nothing the government can really do beyond a certain point.  It's one of the reasons that I think that our current problems are directly correlated with a decline of morality and personal accountability.  (And please, don't take the latter as me saying everyone in financial trouble is there from their own doing.  It is often the case, but much like any statement that can be made, exceptions can be found.)

[Corsair]

Hey. It's gravy. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have to hate you. You're perfectly well enough allowed to not shower a dozen prostitutes in pepto bismol. In fact, I would fully encourage you not to, because it's a bad idea, but - it's your decision to make. Well, and the decision of the prostitutes. I don't know any, but I think they'd likely charge extra for the pepto shower.





As far as accountability is concerned, the higher up the lack of accountability is, the more disasterous the consequences are. A bunch of bums sittin' on ass has less of an economically deleterious effect than a guy in a suit who can't manage his business getting BJ's* in the back of his limo while his company tanks.


*From the same prostitutes you showered pepto bismol on. Small world.

[SargeSmash]

Wasn't implying you did hate me, but that's good to know.

But I think I need to un-read your post.  Not a mental image I needed. 

[Corsair]

 

[Nec5]

(And please, don't take the latter as me saying everyone in financial trouble is there from their own doing.  It is often the case, but much like any statement that can be made, exceptions can be found.)

Often, yes.  Though less often these days.