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Author Topic: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?  (Read 15163 times)

Ryusui

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2011, 01:58:32 am »
To go on and on into needless detail actually packs LESS of a punch than keeping it short, simple and abusive toward the player. Which sounds sick, but in fact is good storytelling. No videogame ever packed such a huge player punch before this, and I don't know if any videogame after ever will, for me.

So, food for thought.

I'll admit, there are a lot of places in Breath of Fire 2 where I thought fleshing out the script made things better. There is one place that sticks in my mind, though, where I think cutting things down from the old translation worked beautifully:

"Ryu snaps at the sight of Deathevan!"
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Kiyoshi Aman

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2011, 05:18:39 am »
and yes, Sky Render has said he has learned a lot since his posted script, I wish he had the motivation to fix it but that's not always how things go.

Sky Render decided against fixing his translation because he feels FF6A addresses all the concerns he had about Woolsey's.

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2011, 09:36:00 am »
Also, didn't even the Advance translations get outsourced?
I remember there was one line in Baron Castle in FF4A that said "goons" somewhere in there, and I thought who even uses that word anymore, and the fact the line also contained the words "something" and "awful" was way too coincidental.
And also the line in FF6A that was like "Some people out there spell Kefka with two C's." seemed almost like this official translation was taking a jab at Sky Render.
And a friend of a friend told me FF5A stuck an obvious Homer Simpson reference in there, though I haven't played it yet.

Hard to imagine those lines getting in an in-house translation.
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Idkbutlike2

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2011, 09:56:59 am »
And also the line in FF6A that was like "Some people out there spell Kefka with two C's." seemed almost like this official translation was taking a jab at Sky Render.
Wasn't that just a reference to the official Japanese spelling of his name?

Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2011, 11:42:19 am »
I really don't understand where you guys get this idea of "official spellings." Isn't Romanization of a Japanese word or proper name a bit of a subjective process, that has been evolving and changing over the many hundreds of years Romance-launguage countries have been in contact with Japan?

I really don't know.
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2011, 11:58:34 am »
I really don't understand where you guys get this idea of "official spellings." Isn't Romanization of a Japanese word or proper name a bit of a subjective process, that has been evolving and changing over the many hundreds of years Romance-launguage countries have been in contact with Japan?

I really don't know.

Square Japan's bio for Kefka romanizes it as 'Cefca'.

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2011, 12:01:49 pm »
That's not the case at all anymore. Especially considering many names and terms used in Japanese games aren't of Japanese origin and are often written in romaji in manuals, art books, etc. So if the localized name doesn't match the Japanese name, chances are it's a fault of the translator(s).

Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2011, 01:30:47 pm »
There is, however, a matter of what's called "Optics." The way our eyes see words figures into how we percieve them.

I just felt that "Kefka" having the same first letter as "Kill" or the Japanese "Kiri" ("cutting") "felt" more threatening. In addition, this way, his name resembles the last name of author Franz Kafka, whom I associated him with in the first place. Kafka wrote about the fragile nature of the human mind and its perception of reality, so I made the association immediately.

And, bringing the optics point up once more, I find that looking at new names for things while I'm playing makes me pay more attention to what's being said, regardless of any concept of "officiality." Square is a game company in the business of making money, not unlike an exotic dancer that doesn't REALLY like you, but is just pretending to like you so you'll keep cramming twenties into her g-string. They actually probably don't care what the writing quality in their games is like, as long as people remember the first time they saw the Final Fantasy VII commercials on TV during awful programs like "Roar," and then get filled with warm, fuzzy, money-spending feelings.
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2011, 01:44:27 pm »
As for Kefka's name, I'm sure that it was originally Cefca, but the team liked the localization of Kefka, and his altered/crazier personality and so adopted Americanized Kefka as their own.

This is shown in Dissidia where he's obviously more in line with our Kefka. So to me, even if it was Cefca as one point, it's now Kefka.

Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2011, 02:03:02 pm »
As for Kefka's name, I'm sure that it was originally Cefca, but the team liked the localization of Kefka, and his altered/crazier personality and so adopted Americanized Kefka as their own.

This is shown in Dissidia where he's obviously more in line with our Kefka. So to me, even if it was Cefca as one point, it's now Kefka.

And besides, when I see the word "Cefca," my brain wants to pronounce it "Seff-kuh." When you place a "C" before an "E," the "C" takes on the sound of the letter "S."

I'm not saying that Sephiroth should be renamed Kephiroth, I just like my monster clown villains with hard consonant sounds for some reason.
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2011, 03:08:16 pm »
Quote
I'm not saying that Sephiroth should be renamed Kephiroth, I just like my monster clown villains with hard consonant sounds for some reason.

I think there's a similar reasoning in the 'N' word. Which is why the 'ga' ending doesn't seem to offend, as much.

Words are power.

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2011, 03:24:11 pm »
And besides, when I see the word "Cefca," my brain wants to pronounce it "Seff-kuh." When you place a "C" before an "E," the "C" takes on the sound of the letter "S."
That’s just an English/French/Spanish/Portuguese rule. Other languages have their own rules. The rule from classical Latin was “always a k sound” (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Welsh maintain this rule to this day—y’know? Celtic?). The existence of the “k” in Latin was a completely pointless artifact of importing Greek words.
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2011, 08:16:58 pm »
Personally, I loved the j2e translation of FFIV. I beat the leaving hell out of it when I was 13 or 14. This was about 10 or 11 years ago.

Now, since I can read Japanese and hack things on my own, I look at j2e's work as inferior. Especially compared to the scripts of later translations (in particular, the DS translation).

Plus, their translation left random bugs intact. Like take a look at the status menu, for example. In the normal game (Japanese, FF2US, or otherwise), there should be a level counter there. Because j2e hacked their main menu to provide for longer class names, the character name was pushed down a line, and the level counter was pushed into a place where you cannot see it. This is something I was able to easily fix long ago.

I personally hope that at the very least I can put out something comparable to the GBA translation of FFIV. I know I'm probably not going to top the DS version in terms of writing (though it's not going to stop me from trying. I'm personally not going to make everything as period-piece sounding as their script did, but I certainly want my script to have flavor!). But I'm going to do my best to make sure fans of the game are going to enjoy my version of FFIV thoroughly.

As far as FFVI goes? I haven't played much of the fan translation. I like it for what it does as far as hacking work is concerned. SkyRender did a Let's Play of his FFVI translation where he's constantly berating his script decisions, and I can agree that the script isn't that great. I haven't played the GBA port yet (I was waiting for the sound and color restorations before I bothered, and now I simply don't have the time). I do agree with many of the changes Woosley made, though, simply because they're good localization. "Terra" instead of "Tina" because it makes the name sound more exotic, etc.

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Panzer88

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2011, 10:47:10 pm »
There is, however, a matter of what's called "Optics." The way our eyes see words figures into how we perceive them.

not to be curt, but how you feel about a name, and your perception of it have little bearing on what the authors originally named it, and printed it, in romanized form, and still do...

As for Kefka's name, I'm sure that it was originally Cefca, but the team liked the localization of Kefka, and his altered/crazier personality and so adopted Americanized Kefka as their own.

This is shown in Dissidia where he's obviously more in line with our Kefka. So to me, even if it was Cefca as one point, it's now Kefka.

he is still referred to as Cefca in Japanese material, they just kept it kefka in the USA much like many Street Fighter naming goofs, fixing it would just confuse people (apparently)

also I don't know what you mean by different personalities. he was pretty batshit crazy in the original Japanese script also. Did you think he wasn't?
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Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2011, 11:08:45 pm »
not to be curt, but how you feel about a name, and your perception of it have little bearing on what the authors originally named it, and printed it, in romanized form, and still do...

This kind of dry academia approach to things only stifles writing. Since we're being curt, I'll say flat out that I don't care because I don't have to. This is an unofficial release. I didn't do it because I felt like I had the right; I did it because I could. Which is the only real reason to do anything like this.

Put another way, screw the "right" to change things. I have the means to change things.
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2011, 11:39:23 pm »
Quote
also I don't know what you mean by different personalities. he was pretty batshit crazy in the original Japanese script also. Did you think he wasn't?

I've just heard he sounds more 'autistic' and unreasonable in ours. I should note it's gathered opinion from the internet, mostly gamefaqs board.

Panzer88

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2011, 11:53:31 pm »
This kind of dry academia approach to things only stifles writing. Since we're being curt, I'll say flat out that I don't care because I don't have to. This is an unofficial release. I didn't do it because I felt like I had the right; I did it because I could. Which is the only real reason to do anything like this.

Put another way, screw the "right" to change things. I have the means to change things.

you were the one questioning the validity of it being official, I was just proving you wrong. It's fine to have a different opinion, but don't act like that wasn't the way it was written, nor infer that it was REALLY intended to be read another way.

There are names I dislike in certain novels I read, but I don't profess to know better than Tolkien. The way I figure it we all have the right to write our own material, and even express our opinions as opinions about other people's material. It is the expressing our opinions as "the true meaning" that I object to. The writer of the script didn't die and make you the authority on it.

For the record, I am ALL about creativity and bettering literature, but again, it's how you go about it that makes a difference. I'd love to read your writing anytime, and I'm sure you could easily improve on a video game writer from 1994, they aren't exactly the pinnacle of literary works, I just appreciate information being accurate so people don't get rumors into their head about what was "intended" because you or I or anyone decided we liked it better one way and thought everyone else should think that was the right way too.

On another note

has anyone inserted the Final Fantasy VI Advanced script into the Super Famicom version of the game?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 11:59:22 pm by Panzer88 »
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2011, 12:44:28 am »
My rule of thumb is to trust Japanese when it comes to the Japanese language. Once they step into the world of English and other languages that use the Latin alphabet, all bets are off. I figure if they were as spot on with English all the time then things like Engrish.com wouldn't exist. :P
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Panzer88

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2011, 12:56:43 am »
much more succinct and less pissy than me RedComet. I like it.

basically that. If it's a French game, I'm going to rely on the French guys to tell me what was written, a US game, then an American, etc.

I call the game by Eric Chahi "Another World" even though it was localized in the USA as "Out of This World".

Why? because that's what he named it, and I grew living in several countries around the world so it made the most sense to rely on the original than to deviate from localization to localization.
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Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2011, 04:06:13 am »
It is the expressing our opinions as "the true meaning" that I object to. The writer of the script didn't die and make you the authority on it.

This statement conflicts with:

...I'm sure you could easily improve on a video game writer from 1994, they aren't exactly the pinnacle of literary works...

You can't both revere the author's work and refer to it as "not the pinnacle of literary works."

Has anyone inserted the Final Fantasy VI Advanced script into the Super Famicom version of the game?

I have to go on record here and say that this would be very, very easy to do, and the only reason nobody's done it yet is that no one wants to do the work. I did drop many lines from the GBA version into Stand Guard, but porting in the script wholesale would be a simple enough matter. I may even do it.

The only thing for me is that I feel the GBA script is still too wordy and frumpy, but let's remember for a moment that writers are INSANE.

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« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 04:34:10 am by Spooniest »
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