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Author Topic: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?  (Read 11993 times)

amitrius17

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Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« on: August 23, 2011, 02:08:15 pm »
I wanted to share this e-mail I received recently with you guys. I thought it was interesting. I've never heard of anyone get offended by the fan based re-translations for Final Fantasy IV and VI.

Quote
I don't understand your bile towards the PROFESSIONAL translators at Square and why you think their translations are inaccurate/way too censored. I mean, Woolsey isn't perfect, but his time constraints and the censorship Nintendo imposed on him made things even more difficult than they should have been. What's more, FFIV has had at least FOUR professional Square-made retranslations (not counting the crappy SNES one), and FFVI Advance's new script is, from all accounts, more accurate to the spirit of the original than Sky Retard's.
 
All j2e and Sky Render did was add a bunch of swearing to seem "hip" and "cool". Have you ever heard that supposedly Japanese is so polite a language that there really are no true equivalents for our vulgar terms in English? Funny how you so readily accept these half-assed, trash translations as "completely accurate" and discard the hard work done by people at Square, people who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND DO THIS FOR A LIVING.
 
I guess there are some crazies out there who insist on being as Wapanese and hating on the company translators as much as possible. Ah well.

My reply:

Quote
Lol what? I don't have a gripe with US translations. I think you took me too literally. More importantly, why do you care? Did the FFIV retranslation pee in your morning cereal?
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2011, 02:31:26 pm »
Crazy is as crazy does :crazy:
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Ryusui

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2011, 02:34:28 pm »
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Have you ever heard that supposedly Japanese is so polite a language that there really are no true equivalents for our vulgar terms in English?

I lost him at this point. There are plenty of ways to swear or offend in Japanese; they're just a matter of context. 俺を誰だと想ってやがる?

But yeah, this'd be a case where the fan translations don't measure up to the official ones. I don't see what the guy's got his pants in a twist about, though; I'm pretty sure I remember Sky Render admitting the FFVI fan translation sucked in retrospect. I guess a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, eh?
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BRPXQZME

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 02:54:45 pm »
There’s also that little fact he’s not letting get in the way about how the retranslations he mentions existed before the official retranslations.
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Pennywise

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 03:22:08 pm »
What's the context for this response? It helps give a clearer picture of what is being said and why.

But to be honest, I've never played the retranslations for IV and VI because they seem mediocre at best to me. VI appears to be more impressive from a technical standpoint, but I probably wouldn't enjoy Sky Render's translation and would probably be better off playing the GBA version instead. The idealist in me thinks that the RPGOne version could be used as an excellent base to improve the quality of the hacking (Menu VWF) and a fantastically written script.

As for IV, that one could probably use a complete overhaul in practically all areas.

KaioShin

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 03:22:23 pm »
I thought this debate was already old 5 years ago :'(

But that guy gets troll bonuspoints for using "wapanese"

Idkbutlike2

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 03:30:29 pm »
Is there a patch for FF6 out there that just takes the GBA translation and dumps it onto the FFIII US ROM? That would be amazing.

amitrius17

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2011, 03:51:33 pm »
Oh? Interesting. So even Sky Render said his translation sucked. I should revise my descriptions then; I said they're both quality translations.
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Gideon Zhi

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 04:26:46 pm »
Is there a patch for FF6 out there that just takes the GBA translation and dumps it onto the FFIII US ROM? That would be amazing.

Not that I'm aware of, but there *is* a patch out there somewhere that puts the FF4 script from the PS1 retranslation into J2E's assembly. Necro made it himself as an experiment, so I'm not sure if it's been fully tested or even if he made it available to the public.

fairdenizen

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 05:57:43 pm »
I didn't find either of the translations that good. Phantom Beast sucks and reads horribly.

And honestly, isn't it common knowledge that the Square translations for both games is superior?

Idkbutlike2

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 06:06:06 pm »
Well, the handheld remakes had superior translations, but I certainly wouldn't say that the originals were better than the fan translations.

amitrius17

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 06:46:57 pm »
Hmm, ok. So would you guys say it is safe for me to state that the fan re-translations are better than the original SNES releases, but (much) less quality than the official re-releases for newer systems?
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fairdenizen

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 07:11:45 pm »
I think to call any of them better is ridiculous. they both have their merits, and I wholly believe Woosley's reads better than Chris or Skyrender's, even if theirs are more accurate.

Ryusui

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 07:58:55 pm »
Hmm, ok. So would you guys say it is safe for me to state that the fan re-translations are better than the original SNES releases, but (much) less quality than the official re-releases for newer systems?

It depends on your measure of quality. Accuracy? Yes, the fan translations are more accurate. In my experience, however, this means exactly nothing. Seriously: Breath of Fire II's original translation is "accurate," ignoring a few flubs and bowdlerizations. The script is practically a word-for-word conversion from the original Japanese, and it is made of pain.

I know other people have different priorities, but seriously: I'd rather have a translation which doesn't read like it was written by a robot. (A malfunctioning robot. The FFVI retrans left the Impresario's title untranslated. >_<#)
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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 08:24:21 pm »
Amitrius, I think what pissed off the guy who sent you that e-mail was the fact that your download pages of the games say that the their fan translated versions are "perfect."

amitrius17

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 10:03:04 pm »
I see, that proves a good argument. So the FF4/FF6 re-translations are not better, they're just accurate.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 10:44:09 pm by amitrius17 »
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fairdenizen

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 10:27:42 pm »
... I think you missed the point.

They can be better, just the ones you've cited...aren't.

Try both versions of Breath of Fire II, and I think you'll be hard-pressed to disagree that once in awhile it is done right.

amitrius17

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 10:34:02 pm »
I'm trying to gather a collective opinion of everyone in this thread. I don't want to go by one person. I personally don't care either way, but I just want to come to a decision to either revise the descriptions of these re-translations, or remove them altogether if they're not worth peoples' time.
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Panzer88

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 10:41:43 pm »
guy sounds like an emotional wreck. The fan translations exist not because woolsey sucks but because he was given no time or resources so his translations left some of the original content out, or abridged it to fit the constraints.

fan translations are hit or miss but I wouldn't discredit them just because they are "not official".

look at all the great work Gideon has done.

to me it seems like this guy is just getting butt-hurt because he has an emotional attachment to the original SNES carts or something, I'm sure he also insists on calling Final Fantasy VI, "Final Fantasy III" half the time also. Japanese people can't swear? are you kidding? does he think they are all a bunch of Ned Flanders and there is no crime over there?

and yes, Sky Render has said he has learned a lot since his posted script, I wish he had the motivation to fix it but that's not always how things go.

As for the FFIV re translation. That's leaps and bounds ahead of the original not just in accuracy but in general quality. I don't see what issues people would have with it other than not liking the word "Phantom Beasts" which is actually used a lot in other japanese titles (FFVI also called the Phantom Beats in the Japanese script IIRC), and even in the train wreck of a film "Spirits Within". They were also often referred to as Summoned Beasts in Japan, most other names were inventions of localization teams to try to make them fit better. The only exception I know of being Guardian Forces which went by the same name in Japan.

I also have a Japanese Final Fantasy Art Book that refers to them in general as "Mystic Monsters" but I don't think that was used in any specific game.

they've been known as everything under the sun in localizations like Summons, Summon Magic, Espers, Eidolons, Aeons, Dark Aeons, Terrestrial Avatars, Celestial Avatars,  Elemental Spirit, Gods of War, Primals, Totema, and Scions

they can be attained through Summoning, Conjuring, Summonstones, Magicite, Summon Materia, Materia Assistance, Spirit Pacts, Demon Gun/Magun, etc.

the current trend in the English games these days is to refer to them as Eidolons. I'm pretty sure that they are still primarily called Phantom Beasts or Summoned Beasts in Japan but I could be wrong. Does anyone know about recent games?

I wouldn't remove the retranslations because I think there is still a lot of things about those translations that are good that other versions don't have. One person's protest isn't reason to take them down for everyone.

Even the upcoming hack Pandora's Box uses part of Sky Render's script because parts of it are good. I wish he'd collaborate with them but I don't think he does much with games officially anymore.

In any case even with all the rereleases of Final Fantasy IV, I don't think there is anything wrong with the fan re translation of the Super Famicom hard-type rom.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 11:23:13 pm by Panzer88 »
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Spooniest

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Re: Why the fan based translations for FFIV and FFVI suck?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2011, 10:48:13 pm »
All j2e and Sky Render did was add a bunch of swearing to seem "hip" and "cool".

Nope. Certainly NOT all they did. Whoever wrote this is clearly not a writer, and has said nothing about tone, clarity, colloquial language, etc.

It just sounds like a lot of over-excited, egotistical bashing of other people's hard work. It's very difficult for me to take whoever wrote this at all seriously.

August 24, 2011, 01:04:41 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Consider this.

I altered the lines leading up to Wedge's line

"We'll approach from the east. Let's get moving!"

Woolsey's ends with the simple, "She'll follow orders." Sky Render's goes into greater detail, saying that she will "do whatever we tell her to," if I'm not mistaken. The GBA goes into greater detail yet, adding some much-needed color in the process, something along the lines of "She won't even breathe unless we tell her to." I wanted to use a very specific word here, and the only way to do it without going into a new page (which I tried to avoid whenever possible, as I feel it breaks the "rhythm" the player is accustomed to), was to keep it short and simple:

"She's our slave."

This sets the idea in the player's mind, when they're already expected to have realized "Oh, I bet I'm the green-haired chick," that they are, in fact, a SLAVE. This word has power. It has a lot of history, and ideas, both political and spiritual, that evoke a lot of feelings from a lot of different people. "Slave." The music that plays as the guards and Terra march toward Narshe cements it into the player's mind: "I am a slave."

To go on and on into needless detail actually packs LESS of a punch than keeping it short, simple and abusive toward the player. Which sounds sick, but in fact is good storytelling. No videogame ever packed such a huge player punch before this, and I don't know if any videogame after ever will, for me.

So, food for thought.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 03:36:30 am by Spooniest »
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